The Glenn Beck Program - Best of the Program | Guests: Sec. Scott Turner & Bayard Winthrop | 3/14/25

Episode Date: March 14, 2025

Is former President Obama in a secret relationship with actress Jennifer Aniston? Glenn and Stu discuss the rumor and the lackluster response to Michelle Obama's new podcast with her brother. Department of Housing and Urban Development Secretary Scott Turner joins to express the critical need to eliminate waste, fraud, and abuse within our federal government. American Giant founder and CEO Bayard Winthrop joins to explain how Trump's tariffs will lead to a boom in American-made products and businesses. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It's Friday and, you know, I don't like to waste your time, but I don't think the show today was a waste of anyone's time. Yes, it was a little frivolous, and I was in a, there's a horse on the highway kind of mood. You don't want to miss it. Also, the HUD secretary, Scott Turner was with us, and we talked about Mr. Krugman, the dumbest SOB on the planet. we take him on and what he said about tariffs and everything else with Byard Winthrop. He is the CEO of an amazing American company making clothing. And now, because of his partnership with Walmart, his making quality American t-shirts and selling him for 12 bucks. Couldn't have been done five years ago.

Why is it happening now? It has a little something to do with actually restoring manufacturing in America. Important all on today's podcast. First, let me tell you about a single mom. Four kids, one income. She is, you know, the protector of the house last week. She was in this, you know, her creaking house that just feels too big at night. And she thought she saw a shadow moving outside of her window.

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Burnah.com slash Glenn. I got up early this morning and I read Paul Krugman. Why would you do that? Well, because he would say about, you know, his op-ed on make sweatshops great again. And I just had to see his ridiculous case and then I just couldn't stop writing. I don't even know if I started that monologue now, I don't even know if I get to the end of it by the end of the show. I kind of just vomited, you know, Paul Krugman truths. And I can't wait to share as much of it as I can next hour.

But I wanted to start with something that I, you know, that Jessica Krause, do you know who she is? Okay, it's Friday. So I just, I want you to know, I'm going off the rails just a little bit, but this is what she wrote on her substack. Back in January, I predicted a split. Too many divided sightings. Too much distance. And Michelle Obama's absence at the inauguration was telling. From the outside, they appeared to be leading separate lives.

But the bigger story was whispers of his affair. Don't get me started on the chef's drowning. Right there. You have me hooked. I'm there. I'm there. Okay. Wait a minute.

Wait a minute. The chef's drowning up in Martha's Vineyard? Yeah. Okay. Really? What happened with that? one. For months, rumors of him and the actress weren't just idle gossip. They came from well-placed sources on both coast, the kind of people who would know. And if there's one thing Hollywood

women can't do, it's keep a good scandal quiet. Trust me, I live through Depp versus Heard. Today, I got unexpected confirmation from a longtime friend connected to L.A.'s elite circles. Oh, well, that's credibility for you there. I mean, but I'm not dismissing. it. Please, please, please. I'm all on board on this one. I believe. I believe. Anyway, she's never been one for gossip, but reached out unprompted. You were right. I didn't want to believe it, but it's true, and it's getting around. The twist, reportedly an open marriage arrangement, which might help sidestep a messy public split. But make no mistake, Jennifer Anison with the good hair isn't just a passing fling.

West Coast ladies say she's embedded in Barack Obama's world. Wait, West Coast ladies are saying this? Yeah, West Coast ladies. All of them? All of them? So all ladies on the West Coast in unison? I'm just reporting the news. Okay.

Embedded in Barack Obama's world too serious to be dismissed. Will they ever go public? I don't know. I don't know. Will they? Won't they? I don't know. Do you care?

I'm curious if you care. Strangely do. Really? Why? Why would you care about such a thing? First of all, it's an affair with, you know, Jennifer Aniston. And she should know about her because she's already made this movie. You know, it's called the objection.

I'm sorry, the object of my affection. Isn't that a story about a romantic fling with her gay best friend? I think that's what it was. So have you actually seen that movie? There's no way you've seen the object of my affection. affection. No, somebody on the staff this morning said that. And I'm like, I'm stealing that line.

I didn't even know what that movie was. And they're like, no, it's a Jennifer Anderson movie about how much she falls in love with her gay best friend. And I'm like, you're right. Right. This is that movie. Oh. Now, the other reason why I bring this up is because I don't think we spent enough time on this

yesterday. Can we bring up the full screen of Michelle Obama? we have a picture. As of Wednesday night, one day after the launch, Michelle Obama's new podcast, which had a huge marketing push. In fact,

look it up, Stu, see what it is now that it's Friday. It only got 14,000 YouTube views in 15 hours on YouTube. I could fart for an hour, and we'd get more YouTube views than that. But anyway,

so here she is, launching a new, podcast and Gavin Newsom is launching a podcast. Both of these people just think people are going to clamor. It's like, we need a new Joe Rogan. Well, good luck. What are you, Frankenstein? People like Joe Rogan because he's Joe Rogan. He's honest. He's coming to the plate with actually who he is. You people don't even know who you are. You have no idea. Oh, but there are some. there are some out there, Michelle, who know who you are, Big Mike. I'm just saying, I'm just saying, you want some YouTube views?

Play into that. All right, I'm Michelle Obama, and I just want you to know. I'm not going to tell you on the next episode that I'm Big Mike, but I'm not not going to tell you that either. Million views. Without you even saying a word, million views. I'm just here to help you out. Now, I guess they are up after two days.

What is the last night was 157,000. What is it now? 157, 5355. Okay, all right. So 500 more people looked at it last night, which is great. But 157,000 views. It certainly follows the pattern of someone who's bought a bunch of views. I don't know if that happened.

But like, you don't have 14,000 over 12 hours. 157,000 all the way, you go all the way up to 157,000 in the next 24 hours and then the next 12 hours get 500. That's a weird pattern. Are you saying it couldn't happen?

I'm saying if those, if the numbers as reported are accurate. Yeah. Because I didn't see, you know, 157,000 last night. But if that's what it was, and now it's up to 157, 535535.

Yeah. Yeah, it seems like that's not a thing that occurs. Huh. Right? Like usually like, gains momentum. People go crazy on it. Usually you don't just stop. Maybe my

numbers were wrong. Maybe, maybe it wasn't 157. Just like it's possible that West Coast ladies are wrong. West Coast ladies are never wrong. That was my impression. I'm just trying to keep it. I'm trying to keep all of our options open. I mean, right now, the most important West Coast lady, Big Mike,

is saying, they're never wrong. They're never wrong. I know it. I know it. I can't say it yet. But is Michelle Obama here. I know it. I'm sorry. Big Mike. So we got that going for us. There we go. Yeah. Now, Chuck Schumer, again, it's Friday.

And this is kind of a big story, but I just really want to share it because, I don't know, by the end of the week, me being as nice as I possibly can all week. By Friday, I just kind of want to vent a little bit. Now, I did vent maybe on Wednesday. I was going to say, you've been nice all week. That's what, this is what, this is how you describe it. all week. I don't mean God's week. Okay. Okay. It's not like, you know. You're just redefining

week like we redefined the genders. Thank you. Thank you. The last few hours. Stu knows, Glenn. Take it from Big Mike. Stu knows. So yesterday, do we have the audio of Schumer yesterday just saying,

yeah. We're, okay, all right. I'm not going to shut down the government. Listen to this. I believe it is my job to make the best choice for the country to minimize the harms to the American people. Therefore, I will

vote to keep the government open and not shut it down. There is nobody in the world, nobody, who wants to shut the government down more than Donald Trump. Big money. And more than Elon Musk. He should not give it to them.

And make no mistake, Donald Democrats will continue to fight what Donald Trump is doing. Okay. Let me just, before I give you my commentary, let me just appropriately frame what he just said with this. It is, by the way, that cost, just this, just this costs a lot of money. We had to find, like, the only guy in America that had a kaleidoscope and could play it. So just appreciate.

I just play this from time to time because it costs a lot of money. for no apparent reason, I said yes to that deal. So I'm getting my money's worth on this. And you're being critical of the way the federal government spends its money. No, it's my money. No, it's theirs. They own it and they allow you to have some of it. Oh.

That's how the government works. Again, I'm telling you, his big mic, he knows what he's talking about, Glenn. Okay, thank you. So here he is saying that he's going to keep the government open because there's nothing more that Donald Trump wants more than the shutdown of the government

except Donald Trump was the one twisting everybody's arm and saying I'm going to run I'm going to campaign against Thomas Massey because he didn't vote for the continuing resolution somehow or another is nobody who wants it more

telling you right now, then Donald Trump, he wants to close it down. Now, yes, he's been exerting all of his power. He's been making threats to anybody who says they want to shut it down. But he really, what he really wants. Because he's usually so, he's usually so subtle. He usually just doesn't come out and tell you what he really wants and what he's really going to do. Okay.

This guy believes, actually believes, that or wants you to believe that he believes that. He doesn't believe that at all. He doesn't believe anything. You know, believe anything. And not to mention, the government could not have passed this without Republicans. Right. Literally could not have occurred. Right. Only Republicans could have made it happen. Right. Now, I don't necessarily see that as a huge compliment, frankly. But that being said, there's no argument, no argument at all that could possibly be made that's coherent that would allow for Chuck Schumer's opinion. Now, that is something you can kind of put on repeat and apply every time he speaks.

Say it again. Hang on just a second. The appropriate music music, and it's not the kaleidoscope here. Oh. No. Oh, yeah. Turn down the lights on a Friday night, ladies. I don't.

This is getting even clear here. Because there's some conservative porn coming your way. I don't have any idea what I said before now. Something about Chuck Schumer that was bad. I don't know. Whatever it was. And there it is. Friday night, conservative porn.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate it. Now you really could have some pizza being ordered with that. Do we have a doorbell? Do we have to play the music and then the doorbell, I think?

You go ahead. You talk about Chuck Schumer here for a second. Charles Schumer. Pizza delivery. Hello lady. Pizza delivery. Wait, why is he at puberty yet? He's in a porn.

This is really disturbing. It's Hollywood. It's Hollywood. Is this the Jared channel? What is this? I'm concerned. It's Hollywood. Oh, okay.

Well, that's true. Actually, do that again, plays the music again. Actually, if it's Hollywood, it's more like this. No. How are you doing still? Great, Glenn. Good. Great.

Yes, it's been an interesting morning so far. Wait until I get to Paul Krugman. Oh, I can't wait for that. It all started with Paul Krugman. He's one of the most annoying people on the planet. He's one of those people that lives in that intersection of ignorance and certainty. A very dangerous intersection. It's a very dangerous.

Do not cross. No, no matter what the light tells you, don't cross. There should be a hospital on all four corners of that intersection. Yeah. That's true. Yeah, right. Because you are going to get destroyed when you walk in there. Yes, you are.

And he does it all the time, you know, perhaps most famously, the internet is never going to have more of an impact than the fax machine. And his body's still twitching in the middle of that intersection right now because of it. I forgot about that one. That's a good one. It is. Say it again. Say it again. The internet is going to have only as much impact as the fax machine.

which Paul Krugman I did it kind of wrecked you there didn't you cross the streams with that stuff you put Paul Krugman on with that music I'm an out of the box thinker okay that's what I do get back in the box

lock the box throw the box into the ocean let it sink we have Scott Turner coming on in a minute oh I'm sure he's proud of this appearance he's like he's right now listening going what the hell did you sign me up for today how do I fake bronchitis Scott Turner is on with us Department of Housing and Urban Development he's a

secretary of that and my first question is I don't even know what HUD really does is it necessary I mean let's just tear it apart here for a second housing you mean the United States government, the wing that just decided to build all of these really wonderful 1960s housing projects that are all now crack houses that has everybody living in them going, I'm afraid, I can't get out of this trap. I mean, houses is in the word crack houses. Yeah, I know. And they seem to somehow another attract that.

There you go. And then urban development. Did we, I mean, this is from the LBJ era. Of course it is. Right. Of course it is. So did we not have urban development before LBJ? Did we need the government go, do you want to start a Detroit before everybody who's just scattered around Michigan going, I don't know what to do.

We're out here on a farm. There's no development in any urban area. We don't know what to do. Shockingly, the urban areas seem to be the most developed. Long before HUD came around. Right. So I want to ask him. what the hell do you guys even do?

And please tell me that you're thinking about shutting this one down, too, because I don't, I don't really get it. Too many agencies. We don't need all these agencies. This is what we're finding out with doge, right? I don't know how much dozing is going to happen at H.U.D., hopefully a lot. Do you just, do you hate housing? No, I hate urban development.

Any development, even rural development. Rural development. I do it. I despise. is all development. I want to go, I'm like the left. I want to go back to where there's, we turned, I'll write songs about complaining about turning fields into parking lots and act like that's a really brilliant observation for years and years and years. It's 2 a.m. The phone won't stop ringing. It's your sister. She's panic. Pharmacy's out of everything. I can't do anything until tomorrow. And then when I do, I have to drive every. It's understandable that she's on the panicky side. Her son is sick. You're sympathetic. but you don't know what else to do. You're as helpless as she is.

Or are you? Now, your sister calls you, it's 2 o'clock in the morning. She's in a panic. You say, don't worry about it. I'm going to run over something, some medicine from Jace Medical. Because I have the antibiotics and the, you know, from prescribed doctors, you know,

the prescription by real doctors. It's right here in my drawer. I'll send it over. You can give it to your son and then get doctors on the phone tomorrow morning. I got it. Okay. Don't whisper. Oh, gosh.

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Now back to the podcast. You're listening to the best of the Glenn Beck program. I just want you to know, we're bringing jobs back to America. Hear this music? Strangely, nobody makes 70s porn music anymore that you can just, you know, grab. So we had to pay some people to make this for really no reason at all. We just, we're putting people back to work, just like the collidy music I just played. Yeah, had to find an expert who actually had access to a calliope to make that.

We're bringing jobs back to America, America, so you should just know that. we are we're thrilled to have our HUD secretary on with us and I've got a lot of questions Scott Turner is with us Department of Housing and Urban Development Secretary Scott how are you sir Glenn back great to be with you again sir thank you it's good to have you um you I mean you're pretty safe now because you've you've gone through the confirmation hearing so now I mean usually being on this show is the kiss of death but congratulations on getting through um thank you So, Scott, I got a couple of questions. Department of Housing and Urban Development, is this part of the, hey, let's trim things down a bit?

This is a Johnson era thing. And how can we fix it or get rid of it? Well, you know, Glenn, that's a great question. We, first of all, HUD has failed in its most basic mission over the last. last several years. And that's to serve the most vulnerable population of our country, families and individuals as it pertains to housing, as it pertains to homelessness and disaster recovery. And so we literally are in the middle of taking inventory. I bet you haven't heard that word in a long time. Take an inventory of every program at HUD to make sure that the mission that we've been called

to do, is this program helping us to fulfill this mission or is this program not helping helping us to fulfill this mission. And if it's not, then we need to get rid of it. And so we're taking a holistic view of every program, maximizing the budget, personnel, everything at HUD to make sure, man, that we are efficient, that we're effective. And according to President Trump's leadership,

streamlined in the processes so that we can best serve the American people. And so that's a great question, man. And we are right in the middle of that right now, because we are laser focused on the mission at HUD. Okay, so let's talk about it. Because you were just in California, I think North Carolina as well on the ground.

And I mean, I was on the ground in North Carolina right after. And what I saw FEMA and everybody else doing was absolutely an abomination. The key seems to be to get government out of the way. Have the government just maybe take some red tape away and try to help people. you know, and there are things that the government can do and should do when the private sector can't do it. What are you seeing on the ground, let's say, in California, that you can help cut the red tape or actually do the right thing to bring some sanity and some help to the people who have lost their homes, both in California and North Carolina. Well, Glenn, you're exactly right. And first of all, thank you for you and your team and the work that you're doing when it comes.

to disaster recovery. We were in California and Los Angeles, both in the Palisades and Alta Dena neighborhood. It's devastating, as you know, it's heartbreaking to see just what the wildfires did and people lost their homes, schools were lost, churches were lost. But we had an opportunity to meet with families, to meet with church leaders, to meet with community leaders, and to hear their stories, to hear their testimony of what happened. And so a lot of that is burdensome. some regulations. People want to rebuild their lives. They want to restore their communities, but the government is in the way. The government has to get out of the way. The results that I have seen, both in L.A. and in Asheville, North Carolina, the people are doing the work. Faith-based

organizations are doing the work. Nonprofits are doing the work, but the government stands in the way with so much red tape, as you alluded to, and bureaucracy. So we have to do a better job. Oh, sorry about that Glenn. We have to do a better job as conveners in the government to bring people together and then let them do the work. And that's the key, both in L.A. and in Asheville. So there's a couple of things. First of all, I don't think it's the federal government in California that's staying. It's California government that is just is insane. Can you do anything about that? And in Asheville, I know there was a DEI, Asheville draft action plan that you guys just thank God stopped. They were in the midst of completely redesigning that area and putting in all kinds of DEI stuff, ESG stuff,

which would have transformed that community into something it never was and never wanted to be. Am I wrong? Right. No, sir, you're right. So I'll answer your second. question first. We did. We were informed that the draft action plan in Asheville, Carolina, North Carolina did have DEI elements in it. And DEI and the federal government, according to President Trump's executive order, DEI is over. And here at HUD,

DEI is dead. And it's right. It was literally re-engineering. And so we said this is not acceptable. This is not appropriate. We will not fund the draft action plan as it is because it pertains DEI and so they have come back to us. They've been compliant to work with us so that they can renew their draft action plan and for not just Asheville, North Carolina, but for everyone who wants HUD-funded grants, we will not accept any DEI element of any kind, but they have thankfully been compliant with us and so hopefully their new draft action plan we can work with. And going back to California, in particular in L.A., I met with the leadership out there and I said, But listen, we need to take inventory from a local and state perspective.

What are you doing that is hindering the redevelopment and the rebuilding and the revitalization of the communities? Because I have heard from the people. They want to restore their families. They want to rebuild their businesses and rebuild their neighborhoods. But the government is in the way. And if you're seeing what I'm seeing, there's no way that you cannot go back to the drawing board. It's okay.

What do we need to get rid of? What burdensome regulations do we need to cut so that our people? can rebuild. And so hopefully that we can continue to firmly encourage that. But is it government, federal government regulation that is the biggest problem? I mean, I'm glad we're cutting all the federal government red tape, you know, that we can. But it appears to me to be insane California government. Yes. And the federal government can they do, can the federal government get involved in that? I mean, 10th Amendment? Well, it is. It's local. It's the state, county city, both in LA and in Asheville.

You know, I've heard from the people there. It's the local and it's the state governments that are in the way, and the county governments that in the way. We can do what we can from a federal standpoint, but it's the local and state governments that really make the biggest difference. There is a story from the New York Daily News, and I think we need the conservative porn music on this one

just to read the headline. Here's a headline from New York Daily. I'm sorry to do this, Secretary. I mean, you're a, you know, credible individual and I'm destroying it for you. This has nothing to do with him. HUD's New York City office left with just one management employee after the Trump cuts. Oh, yeah. Okay.

Is that? A, is that true? And what's happening? And, you know, I'm sure everybody is saying, oh, my gosh, the chaos is great. Has there been any chaos with this in New York City? Well, I mean, there's chaos everywhere, not just for HUD. You know, in New York, no, no, but I mean, right, I mean from these cuts. I mean, is it is, are people starving on the streets more than they were the day before?

No. And let me set the record straight. President Trump, his administration, our leadership here at HUD, we want to streamline our programs. As I said before, we're taking inventory of every program. We want to make sure that we'll be. efficient and effective. We are laser focused on the mission that we have here, Glenn, at HUD. The critical functions that we have and that we're supposed to carry out, we continue

to carry those out day by day. Consolidation does not mean that we're not able to serve the people, no matter their geography. And so if someone's not located in a specific area, it doesn't mean that the people that they're supposed to serve are not being served. So that's fake news. That's just the rumors are what we're cutting everything, we're not going to be able to serve the people that we're supposed to serve. Well, it's the exact opposite. We're serving people better, by the way we're streamlining and making things more effective. Over the last four years, like I said before, HUD has not even fulfilled its basic obligation, but now with streamlining, we're taking inventory, with consolidation, we're actually be able to serve them in an even

more efficient and effective manner. Well, I mean, this is something that politicians don't usually know, because usually politicians, you know, are either lawyers or they went right into politics, the professional politicians. And a lawyer has never built a business. They never have built a business. Lawyers are paid to say no to the people in business because they're there to protect. And they don't understand private industry at all. And, you know, the one thing that private industry understands is when the company is when the company is, you know, the, the, is going out of business, yeah, there might be a little chaos when somebody comes in and says, you know what? We're going to save the company and we can do things better and listen to our

customer better, but we're going to have to cut all of the crap and all of the stuff that's not necessary and all the jobs of people that aren't needed anymore or not working anymore. We're going to have to do some rehiring after we fire. And there is that transition period. But if you've ever been in the free market and worked for an actual company, you've been through this before. You've been through it. Everybody has. But for some reason, the federal government just doesn't think they ever have to go through that, you know, we've had this system going since the Johnson administration.

We can't change anything. Everything has changed since the Johnson administration. That's exactly right. And Glenn, you know, and you talk about the private sector. You talk about people that have come from a business background and a business mindset. And that, you know, with President Trump's leadership, that's what's going on. We have people that have been involved in the private sector, people that have built businesses, worked in business, and transition is taking place. Change is taking place.

But, you know, when change comes, it's hard. It's uncomfortable. But when you go through an uncomfortable situation, that means there's growth. That means that you're not stagnated. That means that you're not complacent. Complacency literally has stifled our country. It stifled the growth in our country. It stifled ingenuity and innovativeness.

And so we're coming in under President Trump leadership and say, hey, man, this is a time of change. And when you prune things, it hurts. But after pruning, it comes growth, comes fruition. And so that's what's going on in our country. You know what? When I was in the NFL, Glenn, you know, I was uncomfortable a lot. And, you know, they put the film on every Monday, and it made you uncomfortable. But for those two hours that you watch film, you got to see, hey, where am I strong and

where am I weak? What changes need to be made in my play so that I could be the best player I can for our team? And so that's what we're doing here at HUD and in this administration. We're watching film, and we're identifying the weaknesses. were identifying their strengths and that's what's going on and you know what that's hard but the american people voted 77 million strong for change and for transition and so that's what we're carrying out you know i was just talking to i think it was sage steel uh this week i was talking to and she said you know when somebody walks into you know the NFL and you're being cut these big huge strong

guys sometimes will just break down in tears and cry because that's what they've always wanted it to do, and they know this is the place to be the very best. You want to play football. You have to be the very best. And not everybody, even though you might be a good football player, you're not the cream of the crop. And that's the way all of our businesses should be. That's the way that our government should be. You know, I'm sorry, you might be a really good person, but we have to be the most efficient. We have to be the best at what we do, or we shouldn't be doing it. And so I'm sorry. You are going to have to watch the films. You are going to have to get better every single day. And we are cutting some of you. I know that's going to make you cry,

but it should also be in, it should also tell you something. That's why you wanted to work here because it was inspiring because we were the best at what we do. And the government's not the best of what they do on anything, anything. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. You're right. And you know, I've been cut before in the NFL and it does hurt. And so you take inventory of yourself. You take inventory of yourself as an individual, as a player. And here at HUD, we are specifically saying, how do we put the people, the best people,

in the right place to do the best job to serve the American people? Not just for now, Glenn, but literally for generations to come for the posterity of our nation. We're making the hard, healthy decisions right now. And one thing I will say to you and to those, to your listeners, we are very clear here at HUD to be very deliberate and to be very specific and surgical about everything we do. We have a critical mission. HUD is like no other place.

We serve the most vulnerable people of our nation and we understand that. And so we're strategic in the moves that we make. We're surgical and precise in the decisions that we make on a daily basis so that we can, can carry out this mission in the most powerful, effective, and efficient manner. And that starts with me and my team on a daily basis. So people can rest assured that's our heartbeat here. Our Secretary of Department of Housing and Urban Development, Scott Turner, Scott, thank you so much.

Keep up the good work. Say hi to everybody that is doing this work as well. We're on your side. Thank you. Thank you. This is the best of the Glenn Beck podcast. I saw Paul Krugman making sweatshops great again. his old man screaming at the sky rant.

And Paul Krugman is wrong on almost everything. Almost everything. If Paul Krugman says, this is the way the world is going, go the opposite direction. But anyway, it's just such a stupid rant. And he starts with, nobody wants to make things in America. You don't want to make sweatshirts and socks. And those days are over? Really, are they?

I know one guy. I called him up this morning and he's on the West Coast and I'm like, Byrd, can you come on today? Because you should answer Krugman on. Nobody wants to make American clothing or anything here. Have you ever heard of American Giant? For a while they were in advertising. I don't know if they still are.

I think they are. But American dash giant.com, I have fallen in love with this company. They make everything in America and they do it because they think it's important to bring these jobs back. And this is something that Byrd's been doing for, well, since I think 2010 or 11. And it is important and very, very hard to do. Byrd, welcome to the program, CEO and founder of American Giant.

Glenn, thanks for having me on. Why would anybody want to make clothing here in America, this old-timey, old-fashioned stuff? Yeah, I got to tell you, Glenn. And this is such a classic example to me of an economist in a white tower that has never taken the time to get out and get on the factory floor and understand what's actually happening in an industry. I mean, he is just wrong on so many levels on this point. It's just it's infuriating to me. So explain to me why we would want those, because he was making this case that Trump tariffs, he's thinking that he's going to bring underpants and socks back to America. and that's not the technology we need.

We need chips, which we do. But we need all the industries. Make the case that what Trump is doing with the tariffs is good, from your point of view, and why your style of manufacturing is not something we should dismiss. Yeah, I mean, I'll sort of come out of from a few different angles, I think. To start with, and most basically, are we interested in having good-paying, stable jobs for working Americans. Not everybody is going to be a Google engineer. And do we like those jobs? And do we like those jobs, maybe even particularly for workers that choose not to go to college

or that are first generation Americans? And I'm firmly in the camp of saying, we need an economy that provides lots of jobs for every level of the economic sector, not just for people that are working in California. That's one point. I think the second point is, and you made this point earlier, industries are integrated and interrelated. And if you knock out one key tent pole, the whole thing gets unstable. I'll just give you two quick examples of that. The textile industry is fundamentally involved in the military and supporting the military and, in case we forget, PPE during the pandemic.

For those of you, and Glenn, I know you know this, but for those you maybe have forgotten, we had lost the ability to make gowns and masks. And in fact, our facility in North Carolina and a handful of other facilities that are still making things here had to retool our plants to make masks to get them onto frontline workers that were trying to save people that were sick. And that was taking a T-shirt facility like mine and totally changing what we do every day. So we had basically effectively lost that capability and it handed it over to China. And China was throttling the supply of those things to us. So it is not as simple as saying socks.

The textile industry is a very dimensional, very broad industry that I think is actually quite fundamental to the viability of the country. Byron, as I look at this, there's only two ways to go. You just concentrate on one industry and one that is already putting more people out of work through AI than any other industry, and that is the tech sector. So you can concentrate on that and say, that's the only one that matters. But if you let everything else fail, you have two choices. You have to fund because you can't afford to do it any other way. You have to fund the steel plants and everything else. So we have some way to make something in case there's an emergency.

Or you just encourage people to continue to make these things. So when things do break down and they always do, we have the ability to live. It's like if every farmer was so, and believe me, the government would like to say this to every farmer and rancher. we don't need you anymore because we can get that food cheaper someplace else. That is stupid. That is a death sentence to America. Well, and part of that conversation is about control. If industries move wholesale overseas, you lose control of those industries. So whether that's pharmaceuticals or textiles or ag, eventually if the control and the

capability shifts entirely overseas, you are at those countries' mercy. So there is a fundamental, in my perspective, and I think this is broadly shared, that it's a national security conversation as well. Now, I'll say one of the thing on the tariff comment, right now, what is happening in textiles in China is unconscionable. It is essentially being used slave labor, subsidized work to underpin our industry, and tariffs in part begin to mitigate that differential. So everyone thinks about this as a warping economic factor. And I actually think that that's a mischaracterization of it, that we are asking our domestic facilities in textiles and outside of textiles to compete on a completely uneven playing field. In some ways, it's that it's most dramatic in textiles. And to level that back out again and put American factories and workers back into a position where they can compete, I think historically, whenever we've done that, we've out-competed our international competitors.

So it is in my mind a very necessary step towards rebalancing this and giving our industries a chance to get, reinvigorated and restarted it again that we've essentially let go for the last 40 years. And by the way, mainstream economists have been consistently wrong on this issue. And, you know, Krugman nods at this in his article. Like, I will concede. That is, that's the story here. There's this postulating from some hill until finally saying, oh, I've gotten this wrong and reeling it back a little by little.

But they have been wrong on this issue for 40 years. So it's nice to see finally an administration that's beginning to turn the clock back a little bit on this. So when you see the tariffs, because I'm not a tariff guy. However, what Trump is talking about with tariffs are a couple of things. One, if you're an enemy of our country, China, there's no such thing as a level of playing field. We'll do what we have to do because you're an enemy of ours, or you're at least a unfair competitor of ours. With Mexico and Canada tariffs that I'm really not happy the way they're being handled, but I understand what he's trying to do. let's make sure that, A, we return as much industry here as we can, but also, you've got some

very unfair trade with us, so we'll just mimic what you do. And I think what people really miss is Donald Trump knows the end of total globalism is over. It's just over. And he's trying to use the tariffs to incentivize people, companies, come back to America. We will make it worth your while. And that has to be done. Where do you stand on the tariffs and if you're seeing anything, for instance, in your field where they're working or that looks like they might work? Well, I hear you on tariffs being a blunt instrument. I want to make one point, though, that is directly relevant to us. As you know, we were approached by Walmart about two years ago And they were trying to make some progress on making stuff in the United States, a piece of which was textiles.

And they needed some help in guidance. That partnership ended up in us now having a line of T-shirts in Walmart that are retailing for $12. I want to just stop on that for a second, because what that means is you have American Giant and Walmart coming together two pretty unlikely partners. And through their commitment to volume and a time commitment over time with us, allowed us to work with our industrial partners through our supply chain, to get a T-shirt on the shelves for working Americans for $12 at retail. Made here in America. Made entirely from U.S. cotton all the way through the needle in the finished product, all made in the United States.

Wow. And that is a window on maybe what tariffs can do. And your concerns about them notwithstanding for a moment, it does provide a fence around industries that give them time to invest and amortize their investments. And in that regard, that really is a hopeful sign for me, because I think in a lot of industries, we need a bit of moment here to breathe, get retooled, to invest a little bit with some confidence that that marketplace is going to be viable for a bit to put us back on a more competitive footing.

So I think it is a piece of the puzzle about this reindustrialization effort that we need to engage in now. So the other thing is, you know, you just brought up $12 T-shirts, which is fantastic. I'm so happy. I mean, you know, when we first met, I was convinced you're going to change, you're going to change the world. You're going to change the way manufacturing is done here in America with clothing. I mean, you're so passionate about it. I'm so happy for you that you're getting this kind of movement and partners where you can offer a $12 t-shirt. That was impossible six years ago, five years ago.

Impossible, unless it was just absolute crap, right? That's right. If you'd ask me whether that was possible, I would have said maybe we could. we can get to $19 or $20. But what happened there, to be clear, is that that partner, Walmart, stood up and said, we're going to commit to you for a long period of time and at a high volume.

And that is what the marketplace has lacked in the industry because it's been cheaper and easier for all of these big corporations that are getting fantastically rich to just offshore. And so to have some mechanism to say, wait a second, there's an incentive to actually stay here. Amazing things happen beyond even what I thought.

You and I talked about this at some point off the air, years ago about the structural challenges about textiles. And that's a big one, which is it needs a commitment of time and a component of volume. And tariffs do do that in some degree. And I think that's, you know, I think that is going to create some market turbulence for a bit of a bit here as we kind of rebalance the economy. But it is going to provide, I believe, in some measure, a bit of that breathing room to allow industries like ours to stand up a bit and get going again. So it may not be the sole, sole answer. But I'm grateful that there is some movement. that finally happened here.

I'm talking to Bayard Winthrop. He's a friend and also the founder and CEO of American Giant and American Clothing Company. The one last thing I want to cover. I am so sick and tired of all of these arguments coming back down about price. And only because I understand that people can't afford things. I get it. But we're talking $1,000 phones from Apple, iPhone. Well, gee, I can't afford that thousand.

phone. Well, if that $1,000 phone is made unethically in what really is modern day slavery at a scale the West really never considered, even possible 200 years ago, then it's wrong of us. And everybody who is saying, well, we need cheap, cheap, cheap, cheap, cheap. If it's made by slaves, it's not good. We shouldn't be doing that. Does that play the moral side of this at all? Does that play with your head like it does mine, Byer? Of course. I mean, if you think about the United States, you know, our citizens have put into place laws that we care about, that we fought hard over, that we've debated publicly and landed on some measurement of OSHA standards to make factories safe and environmental standards. So we're not dumping textile dye into waters. And for us then to say, well, wait a second, we're going to apply that to our factories, but we're not going to apply it to some factory in Jingjiang, China, where we're going to allow some.

massive apparel organization to go over there and exploit that differential. It's, it is, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's drive me wild. Me too. It's drive me wild. And by the way, you know, 40 years ago, that wasn't the case. 40 years ago, 95% of the clothing we bought was made in the United States. And as far as I can remember, we could afford it back then. We could afford a t-shirt and a, and a, and they were the envy of the world. And this trade policy that has opened the floodgates by a bunch of really smart economists sitting up at Harvard have gotten it wrong, have gotten it fundamentally wrong and it is undermined in my mind the capability and the viability of the country

and we've got to get back to some version where we've got a robust industry across every sector of our economy. Bired, I can't tell you how happy I am for you, the success of American Giant. I mean, I just love you guys and love you. Byard, thank you. Thanks, man. You bet. Byard Winthrop. American Giant, you find him at American Dash Giant. This is not a commercial. American dash com. They are amazing. truly amazing. Their clothing is

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