The Glenn Beck Program - Best of the Program | Guests: Steve Friend & Dr. Gad Saad | 8/11/23

Episode Date: August 11, 2023

FBI whistleblower Steve Friend joins to discuss the FBI raid that left a Utah man dead and whether the FBI agents' actions were the only options available. Dr. Gad Saad joins Glenn to review the ingredients necessary to live a happy and contented life. Comedian Jamie Kilstein joins to discuss how strong faith can help your mental health.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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75 years old. He was a guy just blowing off steam. Now, I don't agree with what he did and what he said. I think the FBI should have investigated him, but not break his door down at 6 o'clock in the morning and come in with a tank through his front bay window. Maybe it's just me. Let's go to Steve Friend, who was part of SWAT teams for a long time until he couldn't take the FBI anymore. Steve, welcome to the program. Thanks.

You're happy to take one. So the FBI SWAT team, tell me how this would work. You get a credible thread in and you check it out. Somebody goes and tries to visit his house. He's like, you know, you don't have a warrant. I'm not talking to you. Bring a warrant back. Then he makes more threats on the social media.

But you've seen him, you know him. Do they do any investigation about who this person is or are they just going to the house? Well, I think that's a huge problem with this particular case because there was original threats from May about five months ago. And the agents went to his house and assessed it and either deemed that he was not an imminent threat or they were having. having a hard time pushing charges forward. But because he made these recent threats against the president, they used those earlier threats as additional leverage in the write-up of the affidavit for his arrest to make him seem like a greater threat and enhance the ability and enhance the tools and likelihood that SWAT would be a likely means to bring him into custody. And there's

also the fact that the special agent in charge of the Salt Lake City office is brand new. And And that's somebody who basically has a rank on their sleeve with their Velcro. And they're not going to be pushing back against the predominant line of thinking that if there's a threat of violence against a sitting president that we need to use the special weapons and tactics team to bring them into custody. So is this was this attack on this man's home? Was this to send a message? Was it just incompetence, laziness? what happened? I think that it is a result of the fact that the FBI is now viewing their agents as case managers

as opposed to the agents who investigate the cases. And there's this mentality that permeate. And actually in the software where you have your case false house, you're called a case manager. And when you're the case manager, you're sort of moving chess pieces around the board. So if you need financial analysis done, you send the records over to the forensic accountant. And if you need evidence to be analyzed, you send. it over to the lab. And eventually when it comes time to arrest the subject, you send the SWAT team because those are the arrest guys that do that. And when SWAT gets involved, they have a matrix. It's overly broad. Or the suspicion that there might be a firearm is enough to send SWAT. And that's regardless of whether or not the person is prohibited from owning a firearm. And SWAT is going to use its protocols. It's going to come in at 6 o'clock in the morning. That's your earliest typically that you're allowed to do that because it's speed, surprise, and violence of action. You're hoping to overwhelm the person. so that there's not going to be a threat.

But in this case, they had had a history with this gentleman, and they obviously knew that he wasn't an imminent threat or maybe not even physically capable of bringing these threats to fruition. And he wasn't necessarily very ambulatory. So I think there was far better options that they had actually taken a step back and had rushed. Sure. But I think when there's a threat here, there's always this pressure that we have to use

disposal because it briefs well up the chain of command. You don't want to be the leader that said, well, I sent two agents to his house instead of a SWAT team when he threatened to kill the president. So what is the purpose of a flash bomb? The black bang is a diversionary device. It doesn't shoot out any sort of projectiles. If you hold in your hand, you might have a chance of being burned. But it eventually gives the operators about one and a half seconds where it would temporarily make the person

blinded, would impair their hearing for some time afterwards, and it allows you to get multiple people into a room before they're able to respond and then maybe fire on you. Correct. So you're not using it when you're in the room with the person, and you're already positioned shouting at each other, right? It would play no one. No, I mean, obviously, if you're giving verbal commands and you've thrown a flashbang, they might not actually be able to hear you. Right. Okay. So there was a flashbang right before he was shot. But the flash was not in the house and there's video. The flashbang is actually thrown at like the garage door outside. Why would that have happened? Again, it's a diversionary

technique. So you interrupt what's called the udal loop of the person. So if they think that there's attention in one area, they might be distracted. And then you come in through another door, it makes it safer for you to come into that other door. No, no, no, wait, wait, wait. No, they were gun trained. They were already in the room. They were shouting at each other. And then somebody throws it outside.

Do you normally, I mean, throwing it in one part of the house, okay. But why would you throw it outside? To me, if somebody is holding a gun and I hear what I think is a shot, I might just freak out and shoot. Yeah, so I think it could have been an accident. I mean, sometimes if you pull the pin on a flashbang anticipating to throw it but haven't thrown it, you actually have to, you say bang out.

You have to throw it a safe area. And there's a possibility that that happened that they were anticipating needing a flashbang, and then for whatever reason he was open the door and was then having a conversation engaging them verbally, and they needed to get that flashbang so that it wasn't going to go off in the operator's hand. or anything like that.

So that's certainly a possibility. They could have been having a verbal engagement with him through a door and then eventually decided that they were going to reach in order to do that, distract him, throw the flashbang in another area, then reach and enter. And hopefully that will give them enough time to get to him before he could respond. Does the FBI, do they wear cameras on their vests? They do not. Why?

Why? plan in place to implement body cameras. And from my understanding, there's been training done on that. But it's not been implemented. And I'm concerned that if the decision is made to actually wear them, that the FBI will say, we don't want to reveal our tactics. So we're not going to have them rolling when we do our SWAT takedowns, but we'll use them for after effect to see, make sure that we're not mistreating anybody after all

the smoke is cleared. So I don't know what to extend their planning on making that. those recordings available, especially when it comes to SWAT, because that's rarely necessary in the prosecution of an individual. You've already built the case against them, but that point, it's not really evidentiary. Yeah, I'm not looking to build a case against, you know, the perpetrator here, and I'm not looking to build a case against the FBI. I am interested in seeing the truth.

It's the same reason that, you know, people who didn't trust the police, and, you know, at times it have good reason not to trust the police. They demanded that we have cameras on so we could make sure the police were doing their job and not overstepping. If the FBI is going to get involved in all of these local things and their response is to always send in a SWAT team, I think it's important that they have cameras on them because I don't trust them. and I don't think the American people trust them. I agree with you on that 100%, and I think there needs to be an evaluation of the SWAT matrix. It needs to be narrowed for special circumstances.

They're especially risky and dangerous. And there just needs to be more critical thinking when it comes time to bringing somebody into custody using the least amount of force necessary should be what the premier law enforcement agency focuses on, which is one of the reasons I objected to what we were doing on January 6th. We were sending a SWAT team to arrest an individual who had planned. pledged to cooperate with us. And I thought that that presented an unnecessary risk to his safety and to our own. You know, there's something to be said for local police. The reason why local police can be much more effective is because they know the people of the community. Now, maybe none of them knew this person on the local police, but I don't think they were even asked.

You know, when you used to have Officer O'Malley and he was walking the beat, he knew, everybody because he lived on that block. The local police should be involved in things like this as much as possible to where they're saying, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute, Bob, don't you know his neighbor? Don't you know

because that person can knock on the door and it's not an FBI SWAT team. The federal government doesn't seem to care about anything other than their power and it's got to stop. It's got to

stop. It does. And the prime director of the FBI should be to assist these local agencies that actually have the real world knowledge, the main street knowledge. And I would propose even now that the Republicans in the House use appropriations to defund the armed agent of the FBI and force them to partner with locals because those are the agencies that know the usual suspects and they know the community. And when you get their approval to do an investigation and get their participation,

that creates a bulwark between an out of control of FBI because the sheriff has, accountable to his constituents and he can protect them from the FBI coming. Steve, it used to be that even bank robbers, Bonnie and Clyde weren't stopped by the FBI. They were stopped by state troopers and they would work with the states, et cetera, et cetera. And yes, it took a little more time. But the FBI came in and said, we're going to do bank robberies because of crossing state lines. however they have they have wormed their way into almost everything

that was a a state crime and still is a state crime they just have to try it federally or try it in the state why did we give them this much power isn't the local and the state

police good enough to be able to handle most of these things they are good enough and in my my experience local police tend to be actually superior investigators. They have the experience. They have the guys in the detective office. They're not straight out of the academy and thrown into an investigative role.

They're guys who were on the street and then cut their teeth there and then eventually ascended into the detective's office. So in my experience, those guys are actually superior. I think the FBI brings a lot of resources to bear. It certainly gets over $11 billion in funding. So there's a lot of cash-strapped agencies out there that could benefit from the tools of the FBI has, but certainly not the tradecraft that the, the FBI runs to bear.

And the FBI is a self-looking ice cream comment like any other government bureaucracy. Mission creep sets in and the opportunity to expand and look for opportunities is just too much for them to resist. Look no further than this radical, traditional Catholic memo that was exposed further. To me, the most disturbing word in that entire document is that word, opportunity, because it means the FBI is looking for opportunities to recruit forces. And as it looks for opportunities to collect intelligence, it looks for opportunities to find vulnerable people who can entrap in domestic terrorism plots so they can pad their stats. So there was some interesting news that came out about that yesterday, that it looks like our director lied to Congress.

He said it was only one local guy that was doing this. We now find out it was several FBI districts that were doing this. Any comment or thought on that? Well, Christopher Ray lied multiple times when he tested. He lied about that. He lied about not moving agents from child pornography to investigate January 6th because I was assigned to do that. And he lied about sending agents to school boards to surveil parents, which I was also sent to do. So this is clearly a man who doesn't expect to be held accountable. And it's going to be incumbent that the Republican to make the referral over for perjury against him. They owe that to people like Garret O'Boyle, who testified next to me and Democrats proposed for perjury charges because he mistook his legal fees. being paid by a charity when in fact they were done pro bono. But the Democrats didn't hesitate to try to besmirch his reputation. The Republicans owe my friend Garrett O'Boyle the referral for Christopher Ray of perjury in front of them.

Steve, I appreciate everything that you're doing. I don't find it to be a coincidence that they have reimagined our police and weakened all of our police in the city while they are trying to grab more and more power on the federal level. but I am grateful for whistleblowers like you that are telling the truth and have the guts to stand up and tell the truth and have their lives destroyed. So thank you, Steve. Thank you very much, go ahead. You bet.

Steve Friend, FBI whistleblower. He objected to being part of a January 6th raid, a SWAT raid, exactly like what happened in Provo. He said this is way out of line. We don't need to do this. And he has been blowing the whistle on the FBI. and has been testifying in front of Congress several times. Hopefully, he will be part of the team that convinces Congress to defund the FBI. Defund it.

Clean it out. And then if we have to have one, which I'm not sure we do, very, very small. You're listening to the best of the Glenn Beck program. Welcome, Gad. How are you? Hey, Glenn. So good to be with you. Jack, thank you for the introduction. And let me just say that in the opening chapter of my book, I have a quote from you.

So you are even more famous than you already are because you take a central role in the first chapter. Really? What is the quote you used? Well, it was basically when I think we spoke last when you kindly came on my show. And you said, you know, I was walking into the studio today. And I don't know why I was happy, but I was just filled with happiness. And then I realized I was about to speak to God sad, and that made me happy. I said, what a perfect quote for a happiness book.

Yeah, yeah. Well, it's true, Gad. I just love you. Because you are a happy warrior. And you are a warrior. I mean, you're fighting the good fight, and you know what is going on. Up in Canada, boy, you guys are in real trouble. But you are happy and whole.

And when you look at this book, and I haven't read it yet, But you talk about several things that I want you just to highlight here. How to live the life you want, not necessarily the life expected of you. And my father said to me when I was young, there are two words that are so important, especially because the third word is the empowering word. I am blank. You better fill that in or somebody else will fill that in for you, and that's who you'll become. So look, imagine your father is a pediatrician, and so he thinks that you should become a pediatrician

because you come from a long lineup of pediatricians, but the reality is you are always interested in architecture and being an artist. Suddenly you wake up at 70 years old after a full successful career in medicine and realize you didn't live your authentic life. You lived the life that was expected of you from your parents, from your community, and that's a really terrible way to live life because these are types of regrets. regrets that when you look back on your life are hard to change. So try as best as you can to know thyself so that hopefully you can make the right decisions. You know, I was talking to somebody a few months back and he said, Glenn, you've got to learn something new. You got to spend an hour every day learning something new. And I took that to heart and, you know, I just started painting

about five years ago and I love it and I've become a pretty decent painter. And as I was as I was painting, I was thinking about, you know, how great this is that I'm finally painting. I've wanted to paint my whole life. If, you know, if I had nothing but time, that's probably what I would do. And I am living my authentic life. I know who I am. I love what I do. But I also have other things. And the other thing, as I was sitting there painting one day, was, you know, I've always wanted to play the piano. So I bought a piano, and when I return home, I'm going to start taking lessons to learn the piano. It's not just not living the things that others tell you to do. It's also doing the thing.

You might have a great job that you're pursuing. It's great. But don't sell yourself short and just say, oh, I only do this. Would you agree with that? Oh, absolutely. I'll tell you an amazing story. A chapter on regret where I say that for many things, it's never too late to change course.

So there was a gentleman who escaped around the start of when the Nazis were coming in, moved to Montreal, became a businessman, but I decided that, you know, he just couldn't go to school to university because, you know, life circumstances would not allow him to do that. In his 60s, when he retired, he said, you know what, I'm healthy. I have time on my hands. Let me enroll in an undergraduate degree. Now he's in his 70s. He says, hey, I'm healthy. Let me enroll and finish my master's. And then at the age of, I think, 91 or 92, love it, love it. He finally finished his PhD. My office, Glenn, telling me, well, I feel too old. I'm 28 years old professor. I think I can go back and do my MBA. I tell them, sit down. Let me tell you a story. Once you stop learning, I think you

begin to die. I've got two other things that I really want to talk to you about. And will you please come to town so we can sit down and do a 90-minute talk on this? Okay. Anytime. So you write in the book that your career needs to have a higher purpose than a paycheck, which I absolutely believe. The thing that gets me through every day is I know my life and my job have a purpose that is much bigger than success or fame or money or anything else. And it's multiple levels of purpose. But I think we have a whole society that is looking for purpose. their purpose has become, you know, fame or fortune for so many people. How do you find your purpose?

So I, in the chapter where I talk about how to find your optimal profession, I say that all other things equal, if you can find a profession that allows you to instantiate your creative impulse, you're well on your way to having purpose and meaning. Now, I define creative impulse very broadly. You can be a podcaster. You could be a chef, you could be an architect, you could be a professor or author. In other words, there are many, many ways by which I can immerse myself in the creative process. And that, by definition, is more likely to, you know, grant you purpose and meaning.

So, you know, we need insurance adjusters, and I respect all honest jobs, but I'm willing to bet that the insurance adjuster doesn't wake up in the morning and say, thank God I'm an insurance adjuster. He has to find his purpose and meaning elsewhere. you can find it in your job by being creative, boy, you won the lottery. Yeah, I will tell you, though, that all thought is creative. It's just whether you recognize it or not. And I was just talking to somebody who was telling me a story. I'm trying to remember of a friend of his who he went over, I think he went over to his house,

and he was sitting there at the kitchen table, and he was reading algebra books. And he's an accountant or a CPA. and he's like, huh? Dig in the algebra book, huh? And he's like, oh, yeah, no, I really, I mean, numbers are so fascinating to me. I just like to read and reread this stuff. I mean, I don't get it, but some people do have that passion for things.

Yeah, indeed. Look, when I was doing speaking of algebra, so my undergraduate degrees in mathematics and computer science, and so, you know, I had a very technical quantitative training. and because because I'm sort of a broad-minded person, I like to pursue many interests, I try to take all of my electives in fields that were as different as possible from mathematics. So to your point about, you know, starting to paint recently,

I took a ceramics course. I mean, right? So imagine someone who is in mathematics, you know, the most technical theoretical field sitting with a bunch of, you know, fine art students, but that's what's beautiful about life. you need the sample from the full buffet of what life offers you. The other thing that is you talk about in the book that is so important is choosing the right spouse.

And, you know, you have to look for certain traits. And I mean, for me, the second time around, I got it. I was old enough to understand. I found a woman who saw me for the man I had hoped to be, which made me a better man and made me want to be a better man and a woman who loved the eternal truths of God. And she was hot. So I finally got it. But I don't know if people understand what the important traits are in the right person.

So as a general maxim, I would say, look, in evolutionary psychology, there are two opposing maxims. There's the opposite attracts adage. And then there is the birds of a feather flock together adage. And it turns out, Glenn, for long-term success of a marriage or a relationship, it's overwhelmingly the case that birds of a feather flock together, meaning you have to choose a partner with whom you share, you know, life goals, values, belief systems. So, for example, if you, Glenn, you're a religious person and, you know, you center God in, you know, at the center of your life, then probably marrying someone who's a non-believer is going to put a lot of fissors in your marriage.

So look for someone with whom you share these fundamental beliefs, and that increases your chances of being successful in your marriage greatly. What is really interesting to me is I married a woman and intentionally, and she intentionally married me for, well, I mean, there was a gun involved. But she married me for the same reasons. We had, and this was her insistence, and I understood it, you know, after she explained it to me, that if we don't have the basic fundamentals in lockstep, we'll never make it. But we are both birds of a feather in the basic core. We never have arguments on any of the core values unless, you know, I come home and I'm like,

what? But no, I'm telling, that fits, you know, then just like, no, it does. Anyway, we don't have real wrestles on that. and we are also opposites attract. And I think it would have been the death of us if she would have been, like, I'm very creative and vision, vision driven and visionary. She doesn't have the vision. When I explain something, she'll go, I can't see it until I draw it out for her. She is very pragmatic.

She is the opposite of me on those things. And I think that both of those things can be true. at the same time. You're absolutely right that there are some context where the complementarity of the two people makes a better union. But as you said at the start of your response, when I'm talking about birds of a feather, I'm specifically talking about those fundamental non-negotiables. If you have differences of opinion on those, then it just increases the likelihood of you

failing in your marriage because those are the fundamental mindsets that shape your life. So I agree with you. Opposites attract can apply, but not for sort of the deontological non-negotiable elements. We're talking to Dr. Gad, sad. His book is The Sad Truth About Happiness. He is an evolutionary behavioral scientist who has put his work and his knowledge toward good instead of evil. And Gad, I want to talk to you a little bit about Canada because it is changing so rapidly. and I fear for Canada as much as I do for the United States.

I've always found Canadians to be just much more, less flighty. You know, we're much more like, let's get it. And Canada is like, okay, all right, slow down a bit. But what's happening now, especially in the field of death, is terrifying because I think people are being trained now to look at suicide as a reasonable option for anything, any kind of discomfort. And that never leads to a good place. Are you there on that or not? Yeah, I mean, I don't know.

I'm not too familiar with some of the latest laws that have been passed, but I agree with you that we might have a slightly more tolerant view of euthanasia than I would like it to be. but I can tell you that Canada in general and Quebec in particular are just off the charts when it comes to the walk meter. I recently, it causes me great pain to talk about this, but I recently got into huge trouble in Quebec because I made an innocent, you know, fun-loving joke about the Quebec accent on the Joe Rogan show. And that ended up being covered, you know, for probably a week by every single means. media outlet in Quebec. I mean, I could I could criticize Islam and receive less hate than having criticized the Quebec accent in a fun way. So we've got a lot of work to do up there to try to

preserve some of these foundational values that we hold so dearly. What is happening with Jordan Peterson? In terms of the Ontario psychology. Yeah, where he has to yeah, where he has to go to a re-education camp or lose his license. That's right. It's absolutely unbelievable. I mean, what protects Jordan, of course, is that he is, in a sense, too big to be intimidated. And so he, I don't know what the final result is of that thing, but again, it speaks to such a dreadful reality where, as you said, you need to be sent to Gulac 13 for re-education for the criminally insane.

It's unbelievable. Can we be, we were just talking about this in the, you know, the Matrix, the first Matrix, you know, was, they said in the first movie, was to give everybody, make everybody happy, and everybody had a perfect life, and humans rejected it. Are we capable of truly being happy in a good state?

I mean, America has had some really bad things, but the West, generally speaking, has been good for mankind, and we have a lifestyle bigger and better and easier than anyone's ever had it, but with removal of some of that, it seems like we just go to hell in the handbasket and start finding things to bitch and whine about. Right. Well, I mean, that's one of the reasons why, you know, the difficulties that I went through in the Lebanese Civil War, paradoxically, actually make me a happier person.

Because having experienced the horrors of what societies can typically dish out, then I can always contextualize whatever is causing me to whine about some issue in the day. sort of stop myself and say, wait a minute, stop whining. You escape miraculously the Lebanese civil war, and that quickly kind of jolts me back into reality, whereas I think the West takes for granted all of these foundational values, and therefore they go into hysteria because you make fun of someone's accent or you misgender someone at Wellesley. Put it in context, man, there are a lot more things to be worried about. Well, I don't agree with what you just said about people from Quebec, but, I mean, if that's what you want to say, yeah. Gad, thank you so much.

I really appreciate it. We'll fly you down. Let's do a podcast together because I miss you. And even though we don't know each other very well, I really consider you a friend. You're a really happy warrior. Thank you. Mike Koi's going to love your brother.

Talk to you soon. All right, bye-bye. Dr. Gad said the name of the book is the sad truth about happiness. and he's not a guy that you would expect a, you know, a self-help book from. But it comes from a very deep place. He has studied our behavior, why we behave the way we do. And he was studying it years ago for advertising purposes. And then he started seeing, wait, there's something really deep here that we should talk about.

gad sad from the gad sad podcast you can find it at g-a-d-s-a-a-d-sad-sad-a-a-d-sad with two-a-s dot com and the book the sad truth about happiness the best of the glenbeck program this is the glenbeck program welcome glad you're here uh it's friday we wanted to uh bring in jamy kilstein who is just i think he's a riot uh he's got a new podcast out uh back row pod You can find it there or the Jamie or the is it the Kilstein or the Jamie Kilstein? On Instagram it's at the Jamie Kilstein and then the podcast is the back row with Jamie Kielstein. Okay.

So grab it. It's really good. He's a guy. If you don't know who Jamie is, you know, he's a comedian, been seen on Joe Rogan, Konan, Showtime, all kinds of stuff. And he was very, very liberal. and I would say a little angry and depressed. Just a bit. Just a little bit.

Did that have to do with who I was hanging out with? I don't know. Maybe. A little bit. A little. You have, you've changed your life so much, Jamie, and it's real. And I would have never pegged you for somebody who's like, I found Jesus. I know.

I know. And I bet. You know, it's like. it's me. When I became a Mormon, I was like, no, that's crazy. I don't want, what do you? I don't want to do. It was just not something I wanted to do. Yeah. But I found it to be true. And I'm like, okay, well, then I got to go. Is that kind of where you were? Yeah. When you find it to be true, that's the big thing. Because, you know, I would have mercilessly mocked someone like me, you know, 15 years ago. Where it's like, oh,

Okay, you lost your friends and then you found Jesus. Okay, buddy. Like, when's the book tour coming? Right. When's the merch of you and Jesus holding hands on the beach or whatever? And the thing, I mean, you know, like when you find God, it's just you feel something you've never felt and you don't feel the need to defend it. You just kind of feel permanently changed and you let it affect your life in the way it's supposed to affect your life. Also, it is hard.

I wish it was easy. I wish I was just like, yeah, sure, I found Jesus and then I get a Christian podcast and I go on like the 700 Club and all that stuff. But being a Buddhist was super easy. I had to sit still and meditate for 10 minutes a day and occasionally do psychedelics. And I was like, this is great. Being a Christian, super hard, dude. Like I feel like the merch, like the baptism merch that's like, you know, I was saved. It should just say Christianity is hard because you feel like you are constantly holding yourself accountable to be the best version of yourself that you've ever.

been. Like, I catch myself, whether it's in traffic or an argument with a girlfriend or, you know, about to blast some stranger on Instagram. I just, it's that cliche of like, I know, Jesus wouldn't do this. I shouldn't be on stupid Instagram. And then, you know, but the reward, the reward is worth it. Because even when, uh, even when I'm depressed, I just, I feel, even when it's hard, I feel different. I still feel loved. And I never had that before. It is interesting that, you know, the Bible says, you know, the truth shall set you free. What the Bible should say is the truth will make you miserable first. So miserable.

It's like a hazing that happens. Right. Yeah, it is. It is. Especially in today's world. I want to play a comedy sketch from your back row podcast. This is you and your girlfriend just sitting out of a restaurant and saying a quick prayer before the meal. Go ahead.

It's so nice. finally be on a date with a Christian. I know, right? I was just so sick of the meaningless sex. Sex is supposed to be between a husband and a wife. Amen. So like, um, how long has it been for you since you've done that?

Three years? Three years for me too. You're really pretty. I haven't been touched in so long. So what are your thoughts on marriage? Immediately. Same. Pretty's God.

Let's start taking thing. Are you certain you're incredible, Ashley. Anna. Right. Jane's. Jane. Jamie. Can I play James and Stud? Yeah, it's biblical. No, less poorly.

Right. Hey, if we're going to get married, are you mean? A little. Whatever. We're doing this God's way. Love it. Let's change your Instagram bio. Godly husband to Anna. Stop, stop. This isn't meant to be, right? Stop.

This is so funny that, I mean, this isn't the clip I was looking for, but it's just as funny as the other one. This is the two of you, And it's so funny, being in Utah where so many people, you know, actually believe, oh, we shouldn't have sex. You shouldn't have sex. I'll talk to people who are just married. Oh, how long ago did you guys meet?

What? Three weeks ago. Right? Yeah, three weeks ago. I mean, that was one of those things where even, I remember I got baptized and I'm like, okay, and I got baptized in November. And I was like, I'm not going to have sex. And then I was like, well, I'm not going to hook up. And then I was like, well, let's just see what happens.

And but I went the longest, it was the longest I ever went without, I'm hooking up. I was saying no to people. I felt really good. But then, I mean, this is where it does get hard. And I think that what I'm trying to do on the podcast. What I'm trying to do on the podcast is not turn into the Christian version of who I was on the left and not suddenly be like, if you don't find Jesus, you're going to go to hell. But be like, hey, I'm still messed up, dude. I'm still struggling.

It's still hard. I still get depressed even when I am Christian. because the problem is sometimes you get these Christians that the only solution to their problem or to a problem you have is like, we'll go read the Bible more. And I'll tell you, as a new Christian, I go to read the Bible and I go, I don't understand half of this. And it makes me feel almost worse. I need to go to church.

I need my pastors to explain what things mean. I'm new. And so, you know, on the podcast, I talked about me trying to take sex off the table. But then suddenly I became like a porn guy. And I've never even liked porn before. And I think porn's super insidious. But it's kind of like when you start listening to Taylor Swift ironically and then suddenly you like Taylor Swift, like I was watching porn just to be like, okay, I don't want to hook up. So I'm just going to do this.

And this is the better option. And then suddenly I was just like, am I addicted to porn? And so it is this constant everyday struggle. It's not you get baptized and you're perfect. and I think that the reason a lot of people stay away from God or Christianity or the church is because they think they kind of have to be perfect going into it. And so I am the podcast and the sketches I make. I mean, these were things I legitimately thought about.

I'm not making fun of Christianity because I'm a Christian. I'm making fun of me trying to do Christianity. And I have been shocked by the amount of like long-time Christians, the amount of pastors who are writing me who are like, thank you for talking about this stuff. It's ridiculous. I can't talk about it. And so that's kind of, I think... They have to. Yeah. That's what keeps people away from church. I think. Yeah. I don't want to be or... I don't go... I look at church as a hospital. Right. And it's triage. Yes. And some people are need to be like, you know, and it's usually me. I'm like,

I really need to be here today. Okay. Yep. Yep. They just have a little boobo over there. I'm hammeraging. Yes. And if you look at it as a hospital of sick people, not as a room. full of doctors. Yeah. And too many people look at it like a room full of doctors. We're struggling. You go to church to be able to hold on, hold the path, and have just enough. All I want is Sunday, go to church.

And can you just fill my tank up with wanting to be a better person so I can make it through this week? Yeah. And then I'll see you here again. And then if you screw up, everybody forgets. that's why forgiveness is the main point Jesus was trying to make. Dude, I, it's so funny. I had to go to lunch with one of my pastors.

And because of the old circle that I used to hang out with, this sounds like a bit. And it's not. This is true. I legitimately did not know what the word grace meant. Like I knew forgiveness. I knew love. But because there was just no grace in that, you know, liberal world that I was in. I legitimately was like, hey, can you tell me what grace means?

and he like sent me a sermon explaining what grace is. And I was like, oh. And the thing is back to what we were talking about before, the reason I never went to church is I would see these judgmental, very flawed hypocritical Christians who weren't acting like they were hypocritical. And I go, okay, I want nothing to do with this. But then if you're actually following Jesus, you realize that like Christians should be the least judgmental people because we know

that we need Jesus because we're all screw ups. And so the quicker most of us can admit that like my pastors do, I'm so lucky I walked into the church I walked into because they talk about it every sermon. They're like, hey, don't listen to me. I'm screwed up. I'm, I'm a human. That's why I need Jesus. Let me lead you to Jesus. I think it was you, maybe off air, who told me to when I pray, pray like a conversation.

And that helped me so much because, you know, the first sketch I made was about not knowing how to pray. And it was just me having a mental breakdown trying to pray correctly. And I think a lot of people don't even pray because they think that. And with you, when you told me to treat it like a relationship, and that's what my pastors say as well, oh, man. I mean, that's life-changing, but that's not on a ton of YouTube clips, you know, like a lot of YouTube clips just make you feel worse. I tell you, my son just went to college. And I miss him so much. And I was checking my text messages, because now he's, you know, just working, working, working, working, working.

all the time and and I want to hear from him yeah and and I wrote to him and I said dude text your dad and then I thought to myself oh my gosh have I even checked in with God have I checked in today with God you know who's who is my dad my spiritual dad you know I think that's part of the things that we miss to be able to get a true great relationship is just like, hey, dad, thank you. Yep. Thank you for the. I'm just driving down the car right now and I'm just looking at how beautiful things are.

I just wanted to check in, say, I'm doing great. Yep. Thank you. That you nailed something. I literally thought about this while jogging this morning at the hotel where I didn't believe the whole God is your father analogy until I started thinking about this morning how badly I want his approval and how much I'm disappointing him. And I'm like, ah, that's the dad I know.

Yes. Okay. And I like, stop. to write that down because I was like, okay, I get it. But I, what you said about gratitude, because I've caught myself so many times. I'm an overthinker. I've been through it. I've been homeless, the amount of times I've probably emailed you. I've been like, if you need any writers, I am sleeping in my car. It's been such a struggle and I've been used to just fighting for myself, fighting for myself. And it's so ironic because when things are good, I'll be praying to God and,

you know, all this gratitude. And then when things get rough again, I automatically go back to that habit of, I'll just take care of this, or literally being like, I don't want to bother God. Like I have imposter syndrome. Like I don't deserve to talk to him. And when I don't know what to do, because I've been going through a lot, I mean, honestly, this week I've been going through a lot. And I wrote myself to pray more because a lot of times that's when we stop praying because

we don't want to seem desperate or whatever. And what you said is so important. If you don't know what to pray or if you don't know what to ask, for or you feel shame about it, show gratitude. Because when I don't know what to do, when I don't know what's going on in my life, I will look at the sky, I will put my phone away. And I just go, man, thanks for this. Like, things suck right now.

And I don't know what I'm doing. But like, you look at the trees and the bird. It sounds so cliche in the bird in the sky. And you just go, this is nuts, dude. Like, this is still pretty cool. Thank you for this. And that gratitude, I mean, it changes everything. It changes everything.

Changes everything. And, you know, I don't know if you look, you know, God is our. God is like the ultimate dad, not like our real dad. Right. Yeah. Well, it's hard for people when they say, you know, treat him like your dad. I was like, uh, that's not, that wasn't a good relationship. No, no.

And, and this is like the ultimate dad. And I'll tell you, as you growing become a dad yourself. Yeah. You will understand him even more. You'll understand him how he, when, you know, when the Lord says, you know, love everyone, love your neighbor. It's the dad thing in you. I don't ever, if all these are my children, I don't pick the children that I like and I don't like. I love them all and I want them all near me.

And I'm certainly not like, you know what, kid, you went to the wrong school. I told you to go to Yale. Go to hell. It just doesn't happen. Right. It doesn't happen. Anyway, Jamie, thank you so much. And good work on your podcast and your growth.

I just think you're a fascinating guy to watch. Thanks, man. You've been a really big part of it. Like, it helps a lot. And seeing how sincere you've been to me off the air has really pushed me to kind of like believe Christians. I was like, okay, it's not an act. This is very nice. Jamie, thank you so much.

Thanks, Anne. God bless you. You can find his podcast. It's the Back Row podcast. You can find it on Instagram. You can find it wherever you get your podcast. And Backrowpod.com, Jamie Kielstein. It's never too early to plan your summer story in Europe with WestJet,

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