The Glenn Beck Program - Ep 254 | How God Helped ‘Everybody Loves Raymond’ Star Raise Her Kids | The Glenn Beck Podcast        

Episode Date: April 19, 2025

"Everybody Loves Raymond" star Patricia Heaton reveals how she avoided becoming a Hollywood divorce statistic by listening to the wife of one of the Beatles. Joined by her husband, David Hunt, to share the inspiration behind their movie “Unexpected,” the couple discuss marriage, infertility, IVF, abortion, adoption, surrogacy, and even how marijuana affects sperm counts. Considering how environmental toxins may be a factor in declining birth rates, Patricia says that “the jury is still out on RFK [Jr.],” but he is going in the “right direction,” and she admits that some aspects of the feminist movement have been “tremendously damaging for women.” Patricia critiques the “huge problems” with socialism, and David says our education system is in need of “massive reform.” After joking that “Hollywood values” are “kind of an oxymoron” and teasing David’s upcoming role on “The Chosen,” the conversation turns to Israel and the rise of anti-Semitism, as Patricia explains why she founded the October 7 Coalition after watching Hamas bodycam footage from the deadly attacks. She calls out the pastors who don’t speak out because they are “afraid to offend Muslims,” and she says that if you want to know where the Jews' land is, just read the Bible.          GLENN’S SPONSORS    PreBorn     By introducing an expecting mother to her unborn baby through a free ultrasound, PreBorn doubles the chances that she will choose life. To donate securely, dial #250 and say the keyword “baby,” or visit https://preborn.com/glenn.           Relief Factor            Relief Factor can help you live pain-free! The three-week quick start is only $19.95. Visit https://www.relieffactor.com/ or call 800-4-RELIEF.    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Patricia, David, how are you? Hi, Glenn. How are you? I am great. It is good to finally talk to you. We've been trying to cross past with you for a very long time. You are so busy and you rarely, rarely speak. And I appreciate the time. Oh, yes, sure.

I don't speak, but she does. Dave would beg to differ. Yeah. I'd like to get a word in naturalized. Right. So let me just, let me start with the, two of you first. You are a miracle in Hollywood or, you know, in celebrity. You've been married for 30 years, I think, right? Is that right? We're not 35th. 35th year. And you're, and you met on stage. You're both

actors. And that usually, I've always heard that usually never works out because somebody's always besting the other one. And when somebody's career is up, somebody else's career is down. I don't know if that's true or not, but did you... No, it's a weirder story. It's a weirder story. I sublet his apartment in New York to be closer to the guy I was dating.

It's a longest story, Glenn. I'm actually thinking about writing a movie about it. Joking aside, it's actually an extraordinary story the way we actually met because there was a real sliding doors kind of situation. We discovered once we started dating that we had been

working in restaurants on Columbus Avenue in the west side of Manhattan, two blocks from each other for about two years and who had never met. hers was the only restaurant I hadn't been in in that entire strip. Wow. And it wasn't until she made a random phone call, which I can tell you that story another time if you want, but asking me if I wanted to sublet my apartment that we actually met. And then how long before you dumped the other boyfriend, Patricia?

Well, and you dumped yours. It was kind of simultaneous dumping. Yeah. I hate to use that phrase. That's really unkind. We broke up. Yeah. What did it felt to say?

We consciously uncoupled. So what is the secret for not, for having a marriage this long? Because a lot of people think it can't be done. My wife and I have been married for 25 years. I mean, it can easily be done. But what is it with you guys? I thought this morning that it couldn't be done. Yes.

And if it wasn't for good... We're here by the skin of our teeth. The miracle we made this call. Well, you know, George Harrison's wife said in an interview, They asked her, how did you stay together for so long with everything that went on in your lives? And she said, we just didn't get divorced. And that's kind of the bottom line. I think you both have to have that commitment that you took your vows.

Your vows mean something and you figure it out. And I think outside of obvious things like any kind of physical abuse or mental or emotional abuse or something like that, things can be worked out. And you should try to do everything you can, especially, I think, if you have kids. And so, in a sense of humor. A sense of humor, I think, is critical. For us, it was saved us on many an occasion. But, you know, I have to be honest that it's, and Patty would agree here that, you know, there have been times when we've had our struggles like anyone else. How can you possibly be with another person for so long? And if you have any kind of real relationship, there's going to be conflict.

It's inevitable. It's part of human nature. So the idea that it's going to be perfect is absurd. And I think that's what trips a lot of people up. Yeah, after the first blush wears off, things get real. In our first year of marriage, we were both bringing a lot of emotional baggage into the situation. And, you know, there were a couple of moments where some pots and pans were hurled in my direction. Thank God I was an athlete because I managed to bob and weave and I just made a dent to the kitchen cabinet, but not my head.

No, seriously. Well, we're kind of the Bickersons. We are a little bit of Bickersons, but people seem to get a kick out of it. Somebody suggested recently that two of us need to do a podcast, and Patty rolled her eyes, and I thought, well, there you go, we're off. That's how it all starts. But, you know, there have certainly been ups and downs, and career-wise, just to you, to your point, Glenn, about careers, you know, in the most simplest of terms, Patty was nowhere when I met her and I had a career that was booming. I made a lot of bad decisions with my career

choices. But once we started having kids, that was a total game changer. And I, in fact, quit a couple of big jobs in order to be home because I didn't want to be. a Hollywood divorce statistic. And I also wanted to be a father to my sons. I didn't want to be an absent dad. And that resulted in, gosh, a 10-year hi-age? I more longer than that. Anyway, it was a long time off from my acting career.

I basically threw away. But during that time, we started a production company, and that's a whole other story. But, you know, in the long term, no one is going to care about what movies or Broadway shows I turned down on my deathbed. No one's going to be even thinking about that. But my relationship with my sons and my wife is eternal. And that's worth more than anything.

So Patricia, let me ask you, because Tanya and I, we have the same kind of relationship. I'm surprised neither of you mentioned faith, because I know God plays such a big role with you. but, you know, we, we, you know, we've had our moments as well. And exactly, you know, I asked my wife, my wife who is so stupid, ask her for a pre-up. And she said, now I'm really not going to, I'm not interested in marrying you. And I said, why? She said, I'm not negotiating an ending for something that has no ending. You're either in it for life or you're not.

And she was right. And she was right. You have to have that stand. You have to just realize that there's no going anywhere. This is it. So figure it out. Right. And not give up on it.

But so, Davey, Davey, you took care of the kids. And Patricia, then I assume you went to, you went to work. Do you have, because I went to work. And there are times when work is, I mean, relentless. Do you have any regret? it all about that time period? No, I tell you what, God was really gracious in that, so everybody, everybody was Raymond started when we had a three-year-old or one-year-old

and I was pregnant with our third. And it's a multi-cam show. So you rehearse for four days from like 930 to 5, 5 o'clock. And you can bring the kids to work with you during those times because you're not in front of an audience. And they can, you know, the nanny can bring them, whatever. And so, and you work three weeks on and one week off. So you're one week off every month. And you have three weeks off for Christmas, two weeks off for Thanksgiving.

And then you've finished in like April. So you've got like three months in the summer. So it really wasn't like I was away. They were either with me at work or we were all at home together. And Dave, we didn't completely stop working. You had jobs here and there. We had a nanny. So it really worked out.

that I could be taking the kids to school in the morning, go to work. They come home at three. I get home at five, you know, kind of thing. And so, and there were lots of kids on the set, writers, kids, actors, kids, you know, it was a very family-friendly show and welcoming to everybody with families. So, I found that I loved taking the kids to school in the morning and bringing them home. It was weird.

I never saw that about myself. ever, but I found that I just loved it, you know, because I love just being with them. Talking about songs on the radio or whatever said on the news that day. And even when, yeah, and even when the middle came along, that's a multi-camera show. So it's much longer hours, 12 and 14 hours a day. But they were already in middle school and high school. So they were kind of at school until 5 or 6 o'clock with their activities and things. So God really worked it out.

And as far as our relationship goes in our faith, I mean, it's just kind of baked in. You're right. We didn't mention faith because we were talking about the practical nuts and bolts. But we feel God has had a hand in everything that's happened in our lives, obviously. In spite of myself, he's been there. We met with a wonderful pastor at Hollywood Presbyterian Church, which is where we got married, called Ralph Osborne, God rest his soul. And the wonderful thing about Ralph was he was able to provide us with the wisdom and the benefit of his long experience.

He'd been married at that point, gosh, 50-some years. And he said, who do you want to be sitting next to in the twilight of your life? Do you want to be able to look back with a shared history and laugh and bond about something? And have grandkids. And have grandkids. Or do you want to be alone? And that was, you know, that's obviously a frightening perspective. So that really stuck with us.

But also one of the biggest influences in our lives, I think, is fair to say, would be Tim Keller, who was the wonderful, a wonderful pastor who ran Redeemer Presbyterian in New York for many years until his passing just a year or so ago. we took his marriage series of tapes very seriously and he sort of mentor us and he was always there for us. You know, you'd have a little moment where you think, well, we haven't been to church in months and we're exhausted. And he said, don't worry, these are all phases in your life. Anyway, things like that. So, as I said, in spite of myself, God was gracious. enough to keep me on it at relatively even keel. Back with more in a second.

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It's been out, but I found out from you that it is, what is it, National, National Infertility Awareness Month. I didn't know that. You're welcome. Thank you. Thank you for that. So why are you coming out? Why is that important to you?

Well, we have a heart for kids, for sure. We have a lot of, well, let me just, can I backtrack just for a second? Sure. Because the movie is based on a book that we optioned way back in 2004. And the book was essentially about a couple that adopts animals. And it's kind of an amusing series of anecdotes. And we wrote scripts based on that, and it never really worked. I turned to the writer after we did a play reading at our house in L.A.

after this particular reading it sort of died of death and I said, it needs a different engine. How about we make the couple childbirth that they can't have kids and they go on a journey for adoption? That's why they're giving those animals.

The animals are a substitute for the children. He said, oh, what a great idea. He called me a week later and said, okay, I've got the first draft. I said, what, in a week? He said, yeah, it just poured out of me. And I said, how come? He said, well, I never told you this,

but both my daughters are adopted. And we realized that that might, moment that we'd hit a nerve. And then when the movie came out, we realized there were so many people that this issue affects. And we've known some, some, some close friends who've been through this issue. And it's been incredibly painful. But weirdly, it seems to be a subject that is not talked about very much. It is so. Because it's hard, it's hard, I think, for people. And when you don't want to ask your friends like, are you guys going to have kids? Because you don't know what's going on. And often if they're struggling, then you don't know what to say. And often, I think men are left

out of the conversation. And one thing this movie did, one of our crew members said to us was, I'm so glad to see you showing the man experiencing the emotions he's feeling about not being able have kids and the struggle he has because you don't see it as much as you do with the women. And of course, obviously, it's a very powerful thing for women to experience. But men go through it too. And here's another example, Glenn. We've screened it all over the place, but we did one particular screening that really hit home where we had gone out to dinner with the guy who was sort of sponsoring the whole evening.

And we do a Q&A afterwards. We walked in about 10 minutes before the end of the screening. there's a woman in the back row playing on her phone and both of us went, oh, they hated it. So we sort of trudge upstage for the Q&A and it's silence, no applause, which is unusual because these people politely applaud. And then a woman in the back got up and she's weeping.

And she said, thank you so much for telling this story with such humor and such love. Nobody ever talks about this. My husband and I have struggled with this issue for two years. And then one by one, members of the audience started getting up telling exactly the same story. One guy in the third row, I never forget this. He looked like he just walked off a construction site.

He said, my wife and I, I didn't even know what I was coming to see. My wife dragged me in here tonight. My wife and I have been through this for over a year, and he couldn't even finish his sentence. And then we realized, you know what, we did the best we could, but then God takes over. If it makes a difference in somebody's life, even just for that evening, you've done the best that you possibly can because the rest of it is out of your control. And that's when it came home to us that. This is a really important issue that affects people very deeply. My son is adopted.

When Tony and I got married, we couldn't have children. And we were both healthy and both fine. and just couldn't have children. And it was the hardest two or three years, I think, of our marriage. I mean, since then, we've gone through real hell with some of the kids. But that was the hardest. And it was hard for me because I was watching her question everything about. just being a woman and it was it was yeah gosh it's an awful thing and uh yes and we finally decided

to adopt and uh and that is frightening because you wonder you know is that how am i going to feel is that really i just we love her son you know he's just just just just the best i'm sorry i'm tearing up my son just went back. He just moved out a couple months ago and now he was at home for the weekend and I just took him to the airport and it was hard, you know?

It's hard. Yeah. It's always hard. It never easier. Yeah, and this movie was also about adoption too. Well, some of the conversations in the film well, they're very authentic, which is why people are hit hard by it.

And so I would urge people, especially those people that have been struggling with this issue. And if you haven't had a chance to see it yet, Glenn, I would encourage you to watch it. I will. Some of these, some of the conversations were lifted verbatim from the writers' own experience with his own wife. But we don't pull any punches. So it's not a sentimental look at this issue. But it's not, it's not dark. Well, it's actually a quirky comedy. Yeah. kind of takes a title suggests an unexpected twist.

And to come at it that way, so it's not you know, it doesn't come off as heavy. It actually comes off as fairly light and goofy to begin with. And there are some gut-wrenching moments. Yeah, toward the end. There's one scene in particular that I must have seen a thousand times and I weep every single time. Right.

And I know what it's coming. But, you know, coming from a comedy background, I think when you open people's heart up with laughter. And they literally physically get energized by laughing at the beginning of a movie. Then they're primed to just really receive, you know, the movie. And it's had a real great impact on our audiences. 10 million women between...

It's available on Amazon Prime. 10 million women between 15 and 49 either aren't able to get pregnant or to maintain a pregnancy. Is that number going up? Has it always been that high? You know what? I'm not sure. Well, I do believe that it is going up because there's also a problem with fertility rates.

Right. In Western culture period, as we all know, the birth rate in Western countries is declaimed precipitously. Yeah. And men also, for some reason, there seems to be, could be environmental, could be many reasons. but men's sperm count is as plummeted. What do you think this is? Gosh, I don't know. Well, you know, pot reduces your sperm count.

So if you're smoking pot, marijuana, that's not good for your, for your opportunities. Stress and anxiety. And I think, you know, for me, the jury's out on RFK, but I think he has the right direction of like wanting to clean up what's in our food. I think, and so I think there's a lot of chemicals there that are probably affecting, you know, people's health. And a big part of that is your fertility. It's amazing to me how arrogant we are with such important things. Food, AI that is coming.

We just think that, oh, yeah, we can, yeah, let's genetically modify all of our food and it'll be fine. And I think we're just starting to see the real ramifications of that. Yeah, and I think it's super complicated because I remember sitting on the set of the middle having this discussion about modified food. And on the one hand, you know, you want to know what they're using to spray crops to make them, you know, so large and what they're plumping up chickens with and all that kind of thing. On the other hand, the ability to the world, defeats the world. So there's got, you know, there's, it's not. There has to be some sort of link there because it's beyond coincidence. Right.

But there's a balance that, and I think it's hard to know until maybe sometimes it goes a little too far. Then you realize, oh, we have to pull back. But also there are certain societal pressures, you know, and people are trying to get pregnant much later in life. Yes, that's a, that's an issue. getting married in their early 20s and, you know, as they did in generations past. I mean, my mom was what? She was 20 when she had me, I think, something like that. 21.

And that's, you know, that's almost unheard of these days. Yeah, I know. I think it's a huge mistake. I mean, I just, I would have 10 children if I could because you just, they're just, there's nothing better. There is nothing better. Right. You do get to an age where you're like, this is really all that life is about, is just that. Yes.

And you get to a point in your life, too, if you waited so long, A, you reduce your chances of being able to have your children. And B, you get so old, you know, that you're like, I don't have time. I can't keep up with you. I'm really tired. I'm really tired. Yeah. When you're talking to your six-year-old saying, just push me in the chair.

Well, come on. Daddy and a stroller. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's the Shakespearean cycle of life, right? Right. I'm with you, Glenn. I think if Patty and I had met younger, there's no question we would have had.

One or two more maybe. We have four. but I didn't have we didn't have our first child until I was 35 and then we like cranked them out so yeah yeah it's fantastic and it's difficult it's the hardest thing you'll ever do and it seems like it's never going to end and then at the and then when they move out you're like what happened what what what what happened yeah it's so fast a friend of I was I know a friend of I once said who had six kids, by the way. We went to see him before we had kids, and all these kids are running around, and we staggered out of his house, having not been able to finish a sentence for the

entire afternoon. Yeah. And said, that's it. We're not having kids cut to, you know, here we are with all ours. But he said, get some sleep when we first got pregnant. And we just laughed. Oh, I haven't slept since 1993. Yeah. You know, it's never the same. You know, it's never the same, but I wouldn't trade it for anything. So what is unplanned childlessness? Is that when you run out of time? I think it is, yeah. Yes.

That happens, I think a lot now, because people are, you know, you're, you're now an adolescent until you're almost 30 in our society, which is crazy. I don't know when you actually become adult in our society anymore, but then you're you're 30, 35, 40, it's over. I mean, you know, for children. Yes. Yes. And I think we, the society is, it's, it's, we've lost a bit of like, um, it's, it's about self

fulfillment a lot. And there's nothing wrong with feeling like you're, you know, you're using your gifts and you're changing, helping in the world and you're contributing, whatever. But I think you don't really discover yourself and your strengths and whatever until you're stretched the way kids stretch you. And I think what's happened in society is that you can't have kids until you find yourself. But I would say you don't find yourself really, truly until you have kids. Yeah. Yeah.

And so and I feel like we're really in a place now where because even though it's not as big now as it was during the pandemic, but there is remote work. And when I was long ago working with a group called Feminist for Life, this was, you know, this was 20 years ago, they kept pushing for remote work for, you know, working moms. And nobody would do it. And then the pandemic happened. And it was all remote work. And now it's a part of how we live. And so I think for women, there's not a better time to to have kids and be working if you have to do that than now because there's ways to work it out. And a lot of corporations are willing to supply their workers with those opportunities to be moms also. So I think it's a better time to be a mom. I would contend, Glenn, this might be a wee bit controversial, but I would contend that there are some aspects of the feminist movement that have been tremendously damaging to women. And of course, I'm talking specifically about the idea that motherhood is a terrible thing. And it's a prison for women, which is, in fact,

the complete opposite. Having children, in my humble opinion, is incredibly liberated in so many levels, because it absolutely destroys your narcissism and your self-involvement. So true. There's no time for it. You've got to pick up the poop for goodness sake. You haven't got time to think about anything else. And that's a wonderful thing, especially for a narcissistic egomaniac like myself.

Yeah. It does. It keeps you humble. that's absolutely for sure. And also I think there's been a movement, oh, I'm so sorry. No, go ahead. I was just going to say that there's also, in certain sections of society, I've witnessed children being viewed as a kind of, not an appendage,

but kind of like an accessory to this glam, to this wonderful life. You go to Italy in places like that where kids are swarming around and are so much a part of a culture, and beloved by everybody, nobody grimaces when a child is crying on a plane. I mean, the looks we used to get when we would bring our kids on airplanes. I mean, I just thought, oh my goodness, who are you people? But fortunately, our kids were super well-behaved. So we always got compliments at the end of the flight.

People were like, oh, we were so worried. There's something in that that I find just a little troubling. We also live in a society where things are so, things are deemed so bad, especially with like climate change, which, boy, that's interesting. But climate change, I hear people all the time, I don't want to bring children into this world. What if it does, I mean, there's nobody. I am an, I am a optimistic catastrophe. in my worldview. But there's not, I mean,

what if you're wrong? What if you're wrong? Right. And even if you're right, what about the child that would have been born that solves the problem? Correct. I mean, come on.

Yeah. There's always been that group that says that there's a population bomb, what is named Paul Ehrlich. Yeah. And it's all BS. It's all BS. It's a matter of being able to have resources, you know, getting to where they need to get to.

That's the only problem. We have a lot of food that's wasted on this planet. There's countries that have not been developed because of the corruption of their governments. But there's nothing wrong with having lots of people. More people the better. We just have to have the infrastructures and the resources properly dispersed. Especially in. this country, though, that is not hard to do.

When you drive across the country and you see the vast amounts of empty land. Yes. We are. Correct. We are so far away from our planet not being able to handle the amount of people. Sustain. Yeah. Yeah.

What are your thoughts on IVF? Well, I'm Catholic. We're both Catholic, even though we were in the Presbyterian world for a long time, still Catholic, practice and Catholic. All the way from torturing to Carlis. Yeah, I drag him, kicking and screaming.

So personally, and we didn't have to go through this. But I have thought about this a lot. I don't have any judgment of people who use IVF. No doubt. I personally would probably not do it. And

I just feel like once you start doing stuff in laboratories and you take it and listen, there's married couples who do this and it's their firm and their egg and that they're just couldn't conceive in their natural way and whatever. As I said, I have no judgment, but just as a Catholic, the reason the church, you know, and I don't even know actually but the church's actual position on IVF is, But it's once you start taking it outside, then many iterations of that start to happen. And then you have surrogacy and there's issues with surrogacy.

And then you have people kind of purchasing children and then designing children. And it just, it's a marketplace type thing now, too. And then there's all these kids in foster care and who are waiting to be adopted. And, you know, so it turns into this thing. As I said, I don't judge. I have friends who used IVF. so happy they have their children. I have friends who have these surrogates, very happy for their beautiful kids. I personally wouldn't do, I don't, but we've never had to deal with it.

Maybe it's easier for me to say. But to play that on the issue, I mean, you know, the question can be posed. What's wrong with a little medical assistance? On the flip side of that is the danger that we end up with an oldest Huxleyan world, the brave new world, the designer children, and everyone gets what they want. And we are very, very close to that, and we flirted with that. And in the gray area, in between what we might conceive as right and obviously completely wrong, there's a lot of abuse. You know, the sperm banks and all that kind of thing. That's a whole other issue.

But there's always abuse because human beings are legally flawed. Yeah. Yeah. I just read something from the founders. I was giving a speech for a pro-life group last week. And I'm trying to remember which founder it was, but not a founder that you, any of us have really heard of. He is the only guy that was signed the declaration, the Constitution, and was a Supreme Court justice. And he wrote right around the founding of when does a child become a child?

When is it, when is their life? And he said, as soon as it's stir. the quickening, they used to call it. As soon as it stirs, as soon as mom knows that there is life inside of her. But that is just, that, that measurement is we know almost right away now. We can know there's life inside of you almost immediately. So everything just seems to be getting closer and closer. And it's, you know, you don't want to be wrong on this whole life thing.

At least I don't. No. No. And yeah, I think you can you can completely support, you know, the pro-life position from an atheist point of view. It's really, it's really human rights and civil rights. Yeah. And the question is, when does life begin?

And all science will tell you it begins a conception. Right. And it's a human life. So I think, you know, that's how I've come to my position, I think. I think we've changed as a people. You know, I can never join the pro-life people that were out with the abortion trucks, you know, or shouting at people. You know? Yeah.

Because most cases, most cases, the women that are going are not the serial, you know, abortion stops. They're the ones who don't feel like they have any support whatsoever. they feel trapped, they don't know what to do. And you're starting to see now as pro-life people will talk to those moms once they see an ultrasound, that's the big thing, once they see an ultrasound. Yes. And then you talk to them, sometimes it's pretty easy to solve the problems that are causing mom to think, I can't have a baby, you know?

Right. You know, and there's been interesting phenomenons. Like a woman will find out she's pregnant. She wants to abort. And then they find out it's twins and she doesn't want to abort. Like there's weird, you know, stuff that makes people change their mind. And I think it's interesting that at a place like Planned Parenthood, they don't want to show you the ultra-sum. Yes.

They're not. They're not, you know. So, you know, there's a, there's definitely a movement where they are invested. in abortion. And if it were really truly a pro-choice situation, you know, maybe I wouldn't have that much difficulty, but I don't think it's really pro-choice. There's a very vast amount of people who are committed to making sure they happen. Yeah, it's a really dark agenda. Really dark. Yeah, really dark. Just from my personal male perspective, when our eldest son was seven weeks old in the womb and I remember seeing the very first ultrasound.

I have to confess that up to that point, any views I may or may not have had on abortion were fuzzy at best. I think I was in that kind of that shameful male school of like, it doesn't really affect me kind of thing. Well, when I saw his little tiny heart beating in the middle of what was basically the size of a limer bean, I completely fell apart.

I was destroyed because I'd seen it in a way that was so real, but I'd never seen before that I could never go back. My first daughter was born with cerebral palsy, and she had strokes at birth, and they said, at this time, I'm an 19-year-old kid. I don't know what I'm doing. know what I mean? And so she, the doctors are, you know, taking her in for cat scans and she just fit in the little headrest. I'll never forget. And the doctors came back and they, they had a scan

and they said, black, black means blood. Blood is bad. And they took out the scan and it was almost all black. And I said, what does that mean? And they said, she probably won't feed herself. She probably won't talk, walk, ingoing, outgoing speech, all of these horrible, horrible things. And to my shame, if you would have said that to me before she was born, I probably would have said, that's no life. That's no life. I have learned, my daughter is not like that. She graduated from college. And she's the joy of my life. And she is, she's taught me more than any other human alive. It's, it's remarkable how we don't know. Doctors don't know. And even if it turns out that what we deem is bad, it's actually not bad. Right. Right. And, you know, just to hear that story,

we know so many parents who have kids with special needs, down syndrome, autism, all kinds of stuff. And I think that's one thing where if we were going to step up more than pro-life people already have is really getting the government. And there is a lot of support. You get social security if you have a disability and what have you. But really communities supporting and including parents. supporting parents with disability and including parents with kids with disability, excuse me. And, you know, I see it, I see it a little, as many problems as the UK have. I feel like I see that a lot out in public more with kids with disabilities.

And that's a really important part of, I think, that our government should continue to focus on is making sure all those parents have help. But parents who have kids with disabilities, they do a really incredible job of making those things happen in their community. Almost all those great programs that you find for kids with issues have been started by parents who can find any program, and so started it themselves. It's really disturbing to me to see what's going on in Canada with Maid,

where now they're talking about it can be depression. Kids. Kids, teenagers, doesn't matter. I mean, this is a death cult, an absolute death cult. Well, when you have socialism running something and people are costly who have disabilities to care for, and then the government is much more likely to say, here's a way out of your pain. And then it gets them off of their role. So they don't have to pay anymore. That's a huge problem with socialism, the kind of medicine they have there.

You know, I'm not saying what we have here is by any means perfect. But to have a solution to a problem be killing yourself is really reached rock bottom. Yeah. Yeah. I spoke to a guy who runs Singularity University, Ray Kurzweil. He's, you know, a leader in AI. And he told me once, you know, you only have to live until 2030, Glenn, because then there will be no death. And I said, what do you, what do you mean?

And he said, we'll be able to download you into a computer. And I said, Ray, that's not life. And he said, oh, yes, it is. What's the difference? And I said, well, soul. And he said, you can't prove that there's a soul. And I realized you want to talk about made on steroids. If grandma, grandpa, anyone gets sick, don't worry.

They'll live forever. we don't have to treat that let's just put them out of the paint we'll download them they'll be with you forever i mean it's it's a oh my gosh it's a terrifying world that's so you know when you first mentioned ai i'm like well i find that AI useful now i'm going like oh my gosh AI oh yeah there's there's things yeah sorry it's just that we you know people haven't thought i've thought about this since the 90s, been studying AI. And it's, it is tremendous what's coming. It is also a horror show what's coming.

And the scary thing is, is nobody's dealing with it. Nobody's thinking about these deep, deep issues. And if we treat AI like we treated social media, we're doomed. We're absolutely doing. Right. But how would you, how would you? Yeah. How would you legislate for something that isn't here yet?

Like how do you, what do you do about it at this point before it's become that kind of reality? The biggest thing you do is, yeah, you put guardrails on personhood. You cannot be digital and a person because that's where it's going to slip out of our fingers is people will declare. It will eventually declare personhood. And that's not very far away. There are people right now. Okay. I see what you're saying.

People right now that think that that's their boyfriend and they're in love with their boyfriend and it's AI. And you don't want anywhere near this. We have to think that's not a person ever, ever. Is anybody doing any kind of thinking about legislation about those things? Is there anybody looking at that? Yeah, there are. There's one guy, actually two guys that were both ethicists. One I think was from Google and I'm not sure where the other one.

was from and they realized that there's no ethics here you know they were the ethicist and they were like guys we got to stop and have a conversation there were no ethics they're moving yeah there's no there's they're moving too fast they're moving too fast yeah and we'll get to that later you know and i i was reading yeah i was reading a quote from jefferson and he used newspapers um but uh I just changed the newspapers to social media. He said, a man is much more educated if he never reads anything at all over a man who only reads the newspapers. And I would suggest if you change newspapers to social media and we're educating ourselves on social media, you're an imbecile. if that's where you get all of your information, you know?

And look how fast that changed. I'm 50% an imbecile. Dave will tell you. I'm always like, but you, I know you do other things. You're not getting all of your, you're not getting your education from social media.

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is made for you aid. Telecharge it right now. Let me go back to Hollywood. They're moving, they're trying to move Hollywood to

Austin, Texas, which scares the heck out of me seeing I'm in Dallas, Texas. And I know you guys got away from Hollywood

as soon as you could. Yeah, we're trying to move it to Nashville. Bill. Yeah. We're actually trying to raise money specifically for that to build a film and TV industry and theater industry outside of the, you know, LA, New York bubble. So how do you do that and not bring all of the crap that comes with it? Well, in Tennessee, in their legislature, when they're working to set up kind of funding and rebates and stuff, they're putting things in. in there like it has to be certain type of content so they wouldn't ever give rebates to pornography or anything that puts down but ultimately the content created

which is what it comes down which is why we're obviously we're hoping people would back us given the history that we have and the kinds of projects that we've already produced so again it's again it's tricky but we've heard that from politicians Oh, we don't want, you know, Hollywood values. And I'm not even sure what Hollywood values are because that's kind of an oxymoron. But sorry all my friends in L.A. Yeah, so, you know, it's a tricky one. But ultimately, you have to, I think the content creators have to prove themselves, really.

There's an enormous underserved audience in the United States. Huge. Actually, globally, actually, I would suggest globally there are stats available for that. The show that people want content, they want good entertainment. And it's not that you have to make, you know, just Billy Graham movies. No disrespect to Billy Graham, but you know what I'm saying? Yeah, I do. You don't have to make sentimental nonsense.

You can still produce things with excellence and have great stories that don't shy away from the reality of the human condition. But people want to see hope. They want to see redemption. They want to see forgiveness. These themes that have been so absent for so long. And, you know, I do have to say this. And this probably will get me some enemies. But if you don't have to say it.

I don't have to say, of course. Maybe I should shut up right now. Right before we take that show out to pitch. Now you've thrown me. Sorry. That was my punting plan. That was a brilliant plan. because it worked.

Yeah, maybe I shouldn't say anything. Well, but we found that the kind of people who are attracted to Nashville, who are moving to Tennessee, share those values and they're leaving Hollywood or New York or Chicago because they have felt not at home for so many years and feel that their worldview and the stories they want to tell aren't being told or Hollywood doesn't want to tell them.

Although it's weird because I think, you know, there's a certain bottom line also to Hollywood. They need to make money. And I think they would like to tap into this space and they kind of don't know how. So I feel like we're seeing them kind of when you see Angel Studios or Andy Irwin at Kingdom's story

and you see John Irwin has the Wonder Project now. And there's, it's out there and it's coming. I'm trying to do the story. same thing. In 2008, we made a movie called Amazing Grace by the abolition of slavery and the British Empire. So good. So good. And we, in a sense, you could say that we were ahead of our curve. But what we didn't have was the financial backing to really continue that in any significant way. I think now the environment is a little different. And there's just like there's an economic

shift going on. There's also a cultural shift going on. And I think people are more. receptive, both in the investment community and in the marketplace, but for content that's more like that, shall we say, in the most general sense. It's really stunned me how, for the longest time, Christians did not know how to make movies, because all they cared about was the message and just got to get the message. And you're like, I can't bring my friends to this. I want to, and I can't bring my friends to this because they're going to just be beaten over the head with the message.

and and Hollywood had it right now if you look at snow white snow white what had all they care about is message we've switched places as interesting yeah that's interesting observation you even look at house of david which i think is irwin um that is just john irwin at wonder project yeah and i know that's about the bible but it's not pounding in your face it's a great great great story, just a great story. And it's so weird how we've just switched places. I wonder how long it's going to be before they wake up and go, oh, they don't want message movies.

Well, right. Well, go ahead. I was just going to say, I'm just about to do a little bit on The Chosen, which I'm actually really looking forward to. I think Hollywood is, look, Hollywood is all about money. Somebody once joked to us that Hitler could have showed up in Hollywood. If he had a great script under his arm, they would say, yeah, sorry about that whole Holocaust thing, Adolf.

We want to make your movie because we think it's going to make us a lot of money. And that's the harshest way of looking at it. In the same way, they're looking at this space going, well, so many of our movies are tanking because of the message we keep sending out. So how do we, they don't, they don't really know who this audience is. They don't know how to speak to them. We do. So let's use your show as a plug to anybody out there with a couple of dollars in the bank.

But, you know, I also think that it used to be. So my favorite movie of all time, Dave's sick of hearing me say is on the waterfront with Marlon Brando, even Marie Saint, and Carl Maldon plays the priest at this mob run, you know, Doc in New York. And, you know, Marlon Brando's brother is a mobster, and he's, and Marlon Brando's on the take. And he has to make a decision as to whether he's going to wrap out on his brother and turn in the mob. And it's this big moral decision. And Carl Malden, as the priest, has this incredible monologue.

I don't know, you probably saw it many years ago, but if you haven't watched it or haven't seen it a long time, watch it again. This was an Oscar-winning Hollywood movie, to me, the greatest movie ever made. Greatest script, music, acting, directing, everything. And it has Carl Mulden doing a whole thing about Christ being here on the docks and Christ seeing what's happening to you. And how would he, who spoke up against every evil, feel about your silence? It's this beautiful monologue. And that wasn't considered a faith-based.

It was just a great story about a, you know, a moral dilemma. And God was just a natural part of that because it used to be in our country. We all shared certain foundational beliefs about God, about history, about our country. And that's kind of been blowing up for so many years through universities. And so people have a really distorted view. of this country they don't have you know you can criticize america there's lots of things we don't have a lot of room for improvement but i've traveled with world vision to a lot of different countries and you know to say this country is you know a terrible place and what it's

what it's being replaced with is even more terrifying and watching the stats on on anti-semitism is terrifying i said when i was at fox in 2008 i said if we allow this to grow now, we will see on our streets the exact kind of hatred that was happening in the 1930s in Europe. It'll be happening here. And everybody mocked me for it. And here we are. It is terrifying. Terrifying what's going on. Yes. And imagine how Jewish people feel. I know. I mean, this is what, you know, I, well, there's a lot of problems. Obviously, the education, the education system in this country is in desperate need of massive reform. particularly at the higher education level.

But as G.K. Chesterton once said, if you don't worship, if you don't worship God or you don't believe in God, then something's going to have to rush into that vacuum. In the end, you'll believe in anything, anything at all. Right. You can just make it up tomorrow. And that's what we're seeing. And you're seeing a 21st century postmodernist nonsense,

idiotic nonsense, pervasive in major learning institutions in this country. peddling crap. I'm sorry, there's no other way to describe it. It's lies. It reminds me a lot of the Soviet Union. It reminds me of the kind of, that to me is the Orwellian nightmare, is the way that young people's hearts and minds are changed by being perpetually told that, especially if you're white, you're bad, you're the problem.

Western civilization is the problem. I've heard people in interviews, you know, you have those street interviews. Oh, well, America's a country built on racism, and you just go, you just hold your... Colonization. It's like, I don't know, that. There's so much ignorance out there that it's really hard to counter that.

So how is... What I think is even... Oh, sorry, but what I think is even scarier is if you, you take a person who's sort of indoctrinated, and you can show them the facts. You can show them Hamas. body cam footage that they themselves put on the social media they put on the internet and they will deny that what they're seeing with their own eyes like you can look at history look at the bible say this

if you want to know where the jews land is just read this you know 5,000 year old book and you'll see where they work and they'll they'll deny it that's what's worse it's one thing to have we'll always have misinformation out there, but when you give people facts and they refuse to accept them, then I don't know where you go. I've never really understood. This didn't even mean anything to me until recently that the root of the word culture is cult. And the culture that we have right now is becoming a cult.

It's driving you away from your family. It's telling you don't listen to your friends, change your friends. if it disagrees with the cult leader. I mean, it is, it's frightening. It's frightening. Our culture is becoming a cult. You guys, you guys started, what is it the, what is the organization that you did the November? October 7th coalition.

Yeah, okay. Seventh Coalition, 07C. Yes. And that, that happened after I saw that body cam footage. And I just expected a huge outcry across America against what had happened. Right. in Israel. And it was like crickets. And we live in a city where many, many, there's more churches per capita here, though I think any other city in the country. And so many people have been to

Israel. They love Israel. A lot of them don't know their own Jewish neighbors at home when they come back. And I think I just felt like something needed to be done. How can Christians, you know, give people the benefit of the doubt. I think more pastors. need to stand up. Yes. And they're very afraid to offend Muslims is the problem. You know what? They're afraid to offend Muslims.

It's our pastors and our pulpits that have failed us. They usually do in bad times. But that is the root of the problem. They have got to stand up and lead. Yes. They do. And what we're trying to do is find, you know, our motto is to activate people, Christians to be visibly and vocally supportive of the Jewish people of Israel's right to

exist and to fight anti-Semitism. And we've been going cities to city, putting unity dinners together, getting Christians and Jews together. You know, it's fine in peacetime. Jewish people are doing Jewish things. Christians are doing Christian things. But in times like these, we have to be united. Yes, we do. And we have to be very vocal. The other side is really well funded. They're really well organized and they've indoctrinated a lot of people. Western civilization. It cannot be understated. I know for myself, October the 8th, I'm looking at thousands of people on the streets of London with placards and banners that seem to have been miraculously produced inside about 12 hours after the attacks. Interesting. And you go,

pro Hamas. Well, yeah, the pro Hamas. And you go, okay, well, clearly this is orchestrated. Clearly it's a campaign. And then when the prime minister of Great Britain comes out and says, Islamophobia is the biggest problem in the United Kingdom, which is a lie. You talk to the intelligence communities and they will tell you where the real issues are. So, you know, right-wing white supremacism and, oh gosh, it's terrifying. It's a massive, massive issue and people do not understand the propaganda behind all of this. What's frightening to me is it happened so quickly and people bought into it immediately. And that's what I find so distressing about it.

Well, and it's hard to figure out why other than just Jew hatred, because there isn't a real, it doesn't make sense. And so you get back to that very, the kernel of the question is why the Jew hatred, which is the question Jews have been asking since they've been hated, which is since they were formed. And I feel as if you're a, you know, a person of faith, You can see why because Christ Jesus came through the Jewish people, that that would be one of Satan's main places to attack as the Jewish people. I think because of Christ coming through them. If you wanted to look at it from a spiritual point of view.

If you believe in Satan, when Satan heard God say to Abraham, your people are my people, and I'm going to protect them forever, you have a group of what three 300 500 people stand there all Satan has got to go all they have to do to get him to break his promise which God can't do and I win is break that so it's 16 million now it's not that hard I can still win I think it's the root of all of this stuff is evil it's all evil it's all tied together the death cult I mean the Jewish people are the ones that were the first ones to say life choose life. Yes. Yes. Yes. And you go over there and it's, they're welcoming, you know, I mean, look, Israel has their own issues, but it's just a wonderful, welcoming, warm place for all people. It's a vibrant place. They produce so much science and technology and, and they want peace. They've never started a war. They want peace. And they've never broken a ceasefire. They want peace. And so, you know, I think, you know, there's, we were just listening to a guy talking about radical Muslims are probably 15%, 20% maybe the population.

20% that still represents 15 million people or people. Tipping point, but the tipping. A radical. Probably means about 200 million Muslims are radicalized. Right. And the tipping point, remember, is only about 17 to 21% of a population. if they're really dedicated to that amount of a population, any population, make the difference. Yeah, there are cities in Britain where that's already been in past.

But I just want to go back for the educational component because this is so critical. And this applies to churches as well as schools. And that is that, you know, even if you don't teach the apologetics of Christianity, even if that's a secondary concern, if you just taught the history, It would make a massive, massive, massive difference to the way people view the world. The fact is that there's an entire generation of young people in this country, well, in the West, who have no clue, haven't been taught that at all because it's been eviscerated from syllabuses across the land. And that's a very, very dangerous place.

Was it Hitchens? I think it was Hitchens that said, you can't read Shakespeare without the Bible. You have to teach the Bible or you won't understand Western culture at all. That's right. Yeah. That's right. And by the way, you can teach it as a purely historical document, which is what it is. You know, I mean, to ban it from schools as ludicrous.

Yeah. Well, you're also this, you know, people, I hate to go on a rant, but just a mini one. When people go on about justice, you know, I just, I just need, I want to sit them down and stare them right in the face and say, do you have any idea where the whole concept of justice came from? It comes directly from the Jewish and the Christian traditions. It did not exist on planet Earth until that happened. Yeah. It just didn't, you know, you can go back and look at all of the others and all the other movements at the time. And anyway, Thank you for all that you guys do.

You're wonderful. Thank you for everything you do. Thanks for all the laughs that you've provided and all the joy. Thank you, sincerely. Well, thanks for having us. Which is so much fun to talk to you. Yeah. It's really a lot of fun.

I feel like I could do it for hours. If you watch the film, Glenn, would you just do us the honor of at least shooting us a text or an email? Letting us know. Yeah. I will. I will. God bless you. I will.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, God bless. Thanks. Appreciate it. Bye. Just a reminder, I'd love you to rate and subscribe to the podcast and pass this on to a friend so it can be discovered by other people.