The Glenn Beck Program - Ep 285 | The Gospel According to a Lunatic Farmer | Joel Salatin | The Glenn Beck Podcast

Episode Date: April 4, 2026

Joel Salatin is a self-described, “Christian libertarian environmentalist capitalist lunatic farmer.” If that confuses you, that's the point. But Joel explains how every part of that moniker is purposeful, and it all starts with Christ. He explains how his livestock farming has become a living classroom for gospel truths of mercy, provision, and redemption. He teaches Glenn about the “glory of the pig,” the importance of earthworm health over Wall Street, and why a non-chemical farm that skips vaccines and GMOs better reflects the Creator’s design. Glenn asks why beef prices are so high and Joel proclaims that’s its time for a “food emancipation proclamation." This MAHA-meets-Jesus discussion about what we consume — physically and spiritually—may just change your life.        GLENN’S SPONSORS:          Relief Factor: If you’re living with aches and pains, see how Relief Factor, a daily drug-free supplement, could help you feel better and live better. Try the 3-week QuickStart for just $19.95 by visiting https://ReliefFactor.com.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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And thanks for standing with us. Now let's get to work. Bernie Sanders, who walks around the country, got to stop the oligarchy. Got to stop the oligarchy. That's right. He's right. The four horsemen of the apocalypse,

weather, price, pestilence, and disease. Exactly right. That's what every farmer sits on the back of his pickup truck. and complains about, yeah, yeah, I am a lunatic. Of course I am. I always thought people who were talking about, you know, our food is poison, blah, blah, blah, I just thought they were crazy. And in the last 10 or 15 years, I don't think that. Okay, so Joel, you call yourself, I want to get this right, Christian libertarian, environmentalist, capitalist, lunatic farmer. Can you want to break that down one word at a time?

Because some of those words don't seem to go together. That's right. and that's on purpose because the whole idea is don't put me in a box. And so the Christian is fairly straightforward. But my problem with the Christian folks, my Christian friends, is that in general if the church is having a potluck and you say, you know, let's not use styrofoam. Why don't we go to the Salvation Army get a bunch of mismatched plates?

And we'll wash dishes when it's over and there won't be any trash to take out. in the average church, what? Are you some sort of greenie weeny, commie pinko, earth muffin? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so in general, the faith community is identified with dominance, exploitation, conquistador,

you know, look what the Spaniards did in the name of God and the queen. And so each of these has a plus and a minus for me, which is why I've jumbled them together. So Christian, libertarian, politically, I'm quite libertarian. the government should be about 10% of its size. That big, huh?

Maybe smaller. We can debate that. We can debate that, maybe smaller. But anyway, that essentially, one of the reasons that things have become so acrimonious and partisan in our country is because we have elevated to the federal level the 50 state experiment. And so we have a K-street because everything's for sale. So my problem with the libertaries, I'm not an anarchist. I'm not, I'm very much a right to lifer. You know, I think protecting the unborn is a big deal.

And but in general, you know, I'm a very libertarian-oriented. I would legalize all drugs, all of them. A government that telling tell you you can't take cocaine can also tell you can't drink raw milk. So, you know, I say when the government gets between my lips and my throat, that's an invasion. of privacy. So Christian libertarian environmentalists. I am a rabid

non-chemical farmer. We compost, we don't use chemicals, vaccines, GMOs, all of those things. And I do think that it matters that there's a dead zone the size of Rhode Island in the Gulf of Mexico. And we have infertile frogs and three-legged salamanders. And I think

I think actually the health of earthworms is probably more important than the health of Wall Street as a society. I don't think I've heard the health of the earthworm thing before. Are they sick? No. Well, chemicals kill them. Yeah, okay. And of course, you know, tillage kills them a lot too. But it's just a way to express, you know, when's the last time you went in with a business plan and a baker says, yeah, this is a great business plan. but what's it going to do to the earthworms in our community? I mean, and let's agree that that unseen world that is, you know, 10 billion individuals per double handful of healthy soil, that that unseen and visible community is not as important culturally as, you know, as Wall Street. And I'm not an enemy of Wall Street.

Just these are balanced. Because you're also here. Yeah. This is so crazy. environmentalists, you follow that with capitalist. Yeah, yeah, capitalist. So, yeah, I do believe that businesses should be profitable and that we do need capital to invest, to develop, to do new things. But I'm not an amoral capitalist.

I think, I think amoral capitalism is probably no better or worse than any other amoral economic system from, you know, socialism to whatever. And so that's just my appreciation of, yeah, I do believe that business is important. And the best thing to do for the environment is not to abandon it. You know, we have this environmentalism by abandonment. And let's agree that, you know, a lot of what we've done environmentally has not been good. Yeah. But the answer to that is not abandonment and, okay, humans can't come here. it's to repent in sackcloth and ashes first and then dust yourself off and take your

mechanical ability and your intellectual ability and let's now redeem and remediate everything we've hurt. And then finally the lunatic, the lunatic part came after particularly acrimonious phone call with a guy and he called me a bioterrorist and a typhoid Mary and a, and a starvation advocate, you know, because we all know compost can't compete with chemicals, you know. And this was not the first time. It's happened numerous times. And I got off the phone. Teresa was standing there.

My wife. And I said, you know, I can either be frustrated about this and depressed, you know, Roddy Dangerfield. Oh, nobody loves me. Everybody hates me. Or I can play with it. Let's have fun with it. Yeah. Yeah.

I have a lunatic. Of course I am. We don't vaccinate our cows. We, you know, we don't use chemical fertilizers. You know, so when Vladimir Putin invades Ukraine or fertilizer jumps 400% doesn't affect you. Doesn't affect me at all. Yeah, I'm a lunatic. And it's been exciting.

If you Google lunatic farmer, I'm the only one on the planet. I beg to differ. It's cool to create a handle that's truly unique in the world. I mean, people live and die to try to create that. So Christian, libertarian, environmentalist, capital. as lunatic farmer has kind of become my handle so that when I walk in a room, I developed this over years because as a quote-unquote organic farmer, legally I can't use the term because I'm not certified by the government. But, you know, I was speaking a lot of conferences around

the world and I'd be introduced as this organic farmer or environmental farmer or whatever. And it was always assumed, oh, well, he must be for the teachers union agenda, abortion, higher taxes, government, you know, Bernie Sanders, whatever. And, and I just got really tired of it. And so I created, literally created this moniker for my bio so that when I walk in a room, A, people wouldn't put me in a box. And B, I could, with a smile, diplomatically take that tension, that awkwardness and just dispel it. And it's been very, very effective. That's good. So let's talk about, you know, I have a ranch. And when I say I'm a farmer, somebody suggests that I say, I'm a gentleman farmer.

And I'm like, I'm neither a gentleman nor a farmer. So I don't know exactly. I own a ranch and I own a farm. And what I have found is that farmers, real farmers, that have been doing it for a long time, they're the biggest environmentalists out there. the people who are going and hunting, you know, animals for food, they are the biggest environmentalists out there because they know how delicate this is.

And you can be the best farmer in the world, but if you don't have a connection, if you're not, all you can do is prey. I can do everything right. And my crops will fail because I didn't get the rain. I got too much rain, whatever it is. Well, the four horsemen of the apocalypse, weather, price, pestilence, and disease.

Exactly right. It's what every farmer sits on the back of his pickup truck and complains about. Right. So what happened to us? How did we get to this place to where we are just, I never thought this, you know? I always thought people who were talking about, you know, our food is poison, blah, blah, blah, blah. I just thought they were crazy. And in the last 10 or 15 years, I don't think that anymore.

I think it is the source of almost all of our problems. Yes, yes. Well, I mean, the Maha movement is real. It is. And when I was at the Maha inaugural ball in D.C., a wealthy friend invited Trees and I to go, he was probably our only chance to go to an inaugural ball. So we went. And it was an epiphany for me the moment that Del Bigtree stood up and asked, there were 500 of us there,

there were 50 tables of 10, so I know it was 500 people. and he asked how many of you have vaccine injured children? And I couldn't count the hands, but just being there and seeing it, probably 150 hands of the 500 people there went up. And you could feel, I get teary and chill bumps even speaking about it because you could feel the tension. And here were people who for five, 10, 15, 20 years had a child with all the hopes and dreams that come with a child. You know, you think, when are they going to walk? When are they going to talk? When are they going to go to the first day of school?

Have their first romance. Their first job. You know, what college are they going to? You know, you have all these dreams and hopes. And suddenly, there's no dreams and hopes. They're gone. And these people are ridiculed. Oh, it's all.

in your head, there's nothing here. And suddenly, they had a champion, RFK Jr. I don't agree with everything that he says or does. But honestly, and I mean this sincerely, I don't mean this as a slam. I'm not sure he does. Yeah. I think he's discovering. I do too. Literally, I do too. Unpealing the onion a daily, kind of like the Twitter files were. Yeah, it was a, well, a little and then, who, whoa, what is this? This is deeper. So I think that this, that where we've gotten is the result of a philosophy that life is fundamentally mechanical. And this started at 1837 with the Austrian biochemist Justice von Liebig, who with these vacuum

tubes, he was trying, what is plant? What is that? What is, what are we made of? And he deduced that we were made of nitrogen, potassium, and phosphorus. up until then, life had always had some mystery. Now, whether it was Judeo-Christian, you know, Irish folklore, pagan, whatever. There was always this kind of divine spiritual, yes, yes. Suddenly, he reduced it to all of life is simply a rearrangement,

a rearrangement in ratio of nitrogen, potassium, and phosphorus. That was earth-shattering. And it went around the world along with, you know, at the same time, 1837 is when the Beagle sailed. And we suddenly heard the Beagle. Yeah, Charles Darwin. Oh, okay. Charles Darwin, the Beagle. Okay, yeah, yeah.

And he went on his down to the Galapagos Islands and formulated the theory of evolution. Right. That this really isn't a God-made thing. it just all kind of happened. And so I think it's fascinating that 1837 is the year that we were told we're all just in PK, God didn't have anything to do with it, and Cyrus McCormick invented the Reaper, which is the official beginning of the Industrial Revolution, 1837, which threw out the sithe. So before then, the only way to cut grass or grain or whatever was a sithe,

and the Reaper mechanized that. That's the official beginning of the, and all. that happened in 1837, all at the same time. And so since then, our Western, our Greco-Roman Western reductionist disconnected, you know, fragmented linear reductionist kind of society, took that and went farther and farther with it and their technology enabled us to do things. and then cheap energy came, the petroleum came, so we didn't have to worry, we didn't have to rely on draft power anymore,

you know, horses and mules and all that, oxen. And it liberated us from the alleged constraints of biology of life. And we were able to take this mechanistic view toward life to its extreme point to where now, well, you're just some DNA. We can take a little bit of sand, and a tomato and a little bit of a poison ivy plant and we can we can make something new. You know, Genesis starts, everything will be made to bear seed after its kind.

There is an order. And when you start, and there are a lot of boundaries in life to make sure that things don't jump the traces. Yeah. You know, look, if you see, if the sexual organs don't match. up, that's like a, it's a boundary. It's a boundary got established, you know. And, and so we have been able now to override that and create life forms that didn't occur because we take a very mechanistic view. But as you know, life is not, there are mechanics. I mean, you know,

there's physics and there's, but, but, you know, you can go out and, and, and, and, you know, you can go out and, and, love on your maserati all day and it's still a hunk of steel. But if you go out and love on your milk cow, or even your tomato plant for that matter, we know that there is

communicative capacity. There is response, dynamism. I mean, there's plenty of, plants respond to classical music. They don't like punk rock. You know, I mean... Have you seen the thing I think is from Japan?

And the scientist that did a study where he said nice things to water and horrible things. Yes, water. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, it's insane. It is. It blows your mind. It blows your mind. And the problem with that is going too far down that to where you start viewing life as a God, rather than life as an expression of God's fearfully and wonderfully maidedness. that, that, that, so physical, so for me, physical creation is an object lesson of spiritual truth. So when people come to my farm, I want them to drive out the lane saying, oh, oh, that's what mercy looks like. Oh, that's what provision looks like.

Oh, that's what redemption looks like. It's not just an assortment of, of protoplasmic structure to be manoeuvre. It's how ever cleverly the human mind can imagine to manipulate it. Nobody in land grant universities today is asking, how do we grow happy pigs? The question is, how do we grow them faster, fat, or bigger, cheaper? And so if our procedure makes stress on pigs, well, I mean, right now there's research.

How do we find the stress DNA, the porcine stress DNA to extract it so that we can abuse pigs more, but they won't be stressed about it? Jeez. You know, a society that views life from that kind of dominant manipulative standpoint who doesn't ask what's the essence of pig and how to make a happy pig will soon not ask how to make a happy citizen or how to have a Tom and a Mary that fully express their physiological and phenotypical distinctiveness.

Talk about the pig again. Because you wrote an article. It's amazing. It's amazing. What was it called the case for? Hang on you got it here someplace. But you wrote this great article about where you talked about how, you know, if we don't pay attention to our animals. Gosh, I don't know where it is.

But you talk to the glory of a pig. The glory of a pig. The glory of a pig. And the way you worded just the headline there, the glory of the pig. tells a lot. So, yeah. So, yeah, interest, you know, we have, I mean, you're a spiritual person I know. So we have what we call kind of a church speak.

Words that we use in the faith community that you don't use, you know, you don't hear the word glory on the street much. No, you don't. No. That's reserved for, you know, the cathedral and the church. But the Bible isn't, isn't, isn't. like that. It talks about the glory of old men, the glory of young men, the glory of nations, the glory of things terrestrial, the glory of things celestial, the glory of things celestial, the glory of nations, the glory of kings, the glory of trees. I mean, it uses the word glory in a very

visceral way. It doesn't just spiritualize it into some sort of a Bible study focus group. And so this is consistent with my idea of that physical creation is an object lesson of spiritual true. So God's saying, how do I, how do I get them to understand to honor my glory? Well, glory is the distinctiveness of something. It's the, it's the essence of something. And so, so the glory of God is, you know, holiness, you know, mercy, forgiveness, omnipresence, omniscience, all right? Those great big doctrines. But how do we get somebody to honor that? Well, so we honor the glory of the pig. What is the glory of the pig?

Well, he has a snout, so we let him dig. He's got, he's got, you know, a short tail. He eats a certain way. He wants to live in a certain way. And so, you know, imagine having Sunday dinner with your kids. And little Amy says, well, Mommy, why are we eating this pork chop? Well, we're eating these pork chops because we remember we went to Farmer John's place and we saw the pigs out, you know, running and rooting.

and they were in the sunshine and they had fresh air and they had grass to eat and worms to dig up and a feeder. And they were living in this wonderful place exhibiting their uniqueness and their distinctiveness. Their glory, well, it's because of that that we're eating these pork chops and not those pork chops, not the ones from someplace else that were raised in a way that doesn't honor. Why is that important? Why is that important? Because if we want our kids to honor the glory of God and understand his distinctiveness and how do we honor his omniscience and divine attributes into our life, it starts with an object lesson. And that object lesson inculcates into us then a discovery process.

What is about what's your glory? How can I help you find your, your ultimate glenness, okay? And then we look at God, say, God, how can I help you find your ultimate majesty? Are you with me? And so, so the problem is that we humans, you know, our big problem is we're hypocrites, aren't we? You know, we're not consistent in our philosophy, in our practice. And we, you know, we, so we have this line of thinking over here, and then we get into the job or we get into other situations. And we kind of, you know, we change our thinking. And I think my call is to bring us back to a consistent, you know, a consistent thought.

And I'm not consistent either. Okay. You know, I can tell you my hypocrisies. Okay. But we strive, don't we strive. We wrestle for it. We wrestle to it. And that's a good thing.

Yeah, it's why I like the beginning of the Constitution in order to form a more perfect nation. Yeah, yeah. No, no. We want to strive for that. Strive for it. Look, Air Canada, does a sold world.

Super, an offer for the assort. Station thermal, volcano. Parlant of volcanoes. You've seen the price for the Japan? Hmm, epargne and sushi. Wow, the solds are good for Majork also. We could go to the plage and make a round-doney. Or, it would say a little bit.

Long March on the border of the Marr, in Sicily. Hmm, I adore the canoly. Wait, Decide, this sold is dendure illimited. Reserved to aircanada.com or at your agent of voyage. The conditions

can't apply. I've heard, though, that if you allow the animal, its glory, to be the animal, live the way it's supposed to. It's actually healthier in the end for us. Oh, no question.

So, so if you think about what's distinctive about, well, for example, let's take an herbivore, a cow, okay. Cows have a totally different digestive system than an omnivore, a pig or a chicken. Chickens don't even have a stomach. They don't even pee. What?

What? Chickens don't have a stomach. They have, they eat something. It goes into a crop, a craw, okay, and ferments in this wet bag, and then it moves into the gizzard, which is a grinder. It's a physical, it's a muscle that just sits there and, grinds and grinds. That's why they eat rocks and stones. They got grinders and it goes straight into the intestine. The chicken doesn't have a stomach and they don't and they don't pee. That's why chicken manure

is so hot because the older chickens, the older roosters don't have to get up six times at night, which is really nice. They got a made. Should have been born a rooster. I don't know how that all works in the chicken world. But what I'm getting at is, yeah, The same diet, habitat environment for a chicken would not be the same you'd have for a pig or a cow or whatever. That's the idea. And so when we raise these animals, we're in livestock. We're in pasture livestock farming. And so when we raise these animals, our first question is, well, how can, what is unique and, and,

distinctive about this critter, how can we create a habitat that allows it to express its, you know, its distinctiveness, its uniqueness. And so, for example, cows, we don't feed cows any grain. The herbivore in nature, yes, it picks some seeds off, you know, seeded out grasses or whatever, but it doesn't eat grain as a large percentage of its diet at all. And so we grass finish. So we're in the grass finished business. And what's interesting is the bio-nutrient food association has just completed basically two years of study where they're looking at what is the single most common denominator that determines the nutrient density of beef.

They started with carrots, then they did broccoli, and now they're doing beef. and more important than climate, weather, breed, you know, rancher, farmer, any of those things, the number one determinant is how many different plants did the cow eat? It's variety. It's diversity of sward. We now know on the American plains when the bison were there before the Europeans came, there were roughly 60 species of grass and some over thousands of, species of Forbes, which we would call weeds, but they were edible, edible flowers, I mean,

from plantain to chicory, you know, whatever. And so that variety was a huge distinctive. And so on our farm, we're doing everything we can to facilitate more diversity and variety within the sward to create this, this diverse ingestion. You know, we could go on with the pigs and the chickens. The chickens, you know, we move them every day to a fresh spot. The pigs, you know, they run through, you know, paddocks of grass and forest and acorns and stuff along with feed as well. But what's interesting is over the years, you know, we've been in this now for half a century on our farm. And we've serviced a lot of very, very upscale restaurants. Oh, I bet.

We don't sell to McDonald's. I wouldn't assume you did that you provide meat. Yeah. We service a lot of these upscale restaurants. And what we've learned from them is that over time is that all of our stuff cooks 15% faster than regular supermarket stuff. Well, why is that? Well, because in a concentrated animal feeding operation, you know, a big confinement chicken house or a piggery or a beef feedlot, whatever. The social and dietary aspects of that are stressful on the animal.

There aren't supposed to be 20,000 chickens in one house, breathing fecal particulate all day, blocked out from fresh air and sunshine. That's not the way a chicken is supposed to be raised. And so in that stress, what happens when you're under stress, you tighten up, don't you? You get, I mean, that's how a hundred pound mom can pick up a car off her toddler, you know, if it falls. But after that, you know, she's shaking in all tense.

So you tend to stress, you secrete adrenaline, cortisol's, and they, you know, they tighten you up. Whereas when you're relaxed and happy, you know, you relax. And so we've, we've determined that the reason everything we do cooks 15% faster is because our animals come happy. they don't come stressed with adrenaline. They come happy. And so the question then obviously becomes, can we eat happiness? And I suggest, yes, we can eat happiness.

Now, you know, I don't want to go down there too far. I'll be really branded a coup. But I do think, realize, our microbiome of billions and billions of microbes, they are very close cousins to everything that's outside of us. And our mouth is a gateway. And everything our gut, our microbiome, everything it knows about the world, it knows by what comes through our mouth. You know, here it comes in, you know, is it monosodium glutamate?

Is it high fructose cord syrup? Oh, no, this is grass finished beef. You know, I mean, I... Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. You can play with it, but you can imagine the drama. And I just can imagine, you know, your microbiome when something really, you know, good comes in, oh, hi, cousin, you know, it's been good.

Because really, when you profile the human gut and healthy soil, they're almost indistinguishable, you know, as like a cutaway. All right. And so if what we're ingesting is grown under stress with adrenaline drips, then our microbiome is going to assume, wow, that's a vicious, bad world out there as opposed to bringing in loved beef, loved tomatoes, love things. And, you know, when we look at produce,

basically the benchmark of cultivar selection for the last 70 to 80 years, certainly the last 50, has been shipability and spoilability. You know, can a, you know, will this tomato, you know, sit in the back of a truck and bounce for a thousand miles across the country to the supermarket without turning to jello? Yeah. You know.

And when you do that, you essentially cardboardize vegetables. You got to give them more structure and less juice and less nutrients. And so one of the reasons kids don't like vegetables is because they're all like cardboard, because they've been selected for non-spoilability and shipability. And when something doesn't rot as fast or structurally break down as fast, then it won't digest as fast. Basically, our guts are a compost pile on steroids, you know. And so you take squeezable cheese, put it on the table, you can walk away,

and it can just sit there for a year. If you put real cheese on the table, in three days it gets fuzzy, and in a week it sprouts legs and walks off the table. I mean, that's the difference between living food and inanimate protoplasmic structure. We have, that's why, in theory, I'm not done it because I just don't drink milk and my kids are out of the house. but, you know, having milk right from the cow makes all the sense in the world. I mean, we don't need to pasteurize anymore. Those are for the days when cleanliness was not possible at scale, at least. We don't need to do that.

And yet we're burning everything out. They just turned the food pyramid, turned it upside down. It's unbelievable. The government has. just admitted everything we told you is 180 degrees in the wrong direction. Right. Suddenly, eggs are better than, um, than, uh, Cheerios. Yeah. Imagine that. Right. Who would have thought that? So yeah, I'm telling you, you know,

I've been in this space all my life and the changes we've seen in the last year, uh, I never, I never thought I'd ever see in my lifetime. I mean, I mean, the, you know, uh, the, the, the, um, just the, the, um, just the recognition. that we've gotten everything upside down. And it's frankly quite exciting. It really is exciting. It really is exciting. It's a scary time to be alive in some ways.

But it's a really exciting time to be alive. It is. I mean, think of what RFK Jr. has brought to the American public. I mean, I felt like I was fairly informed, but I didn't know that $12 billion of SNAP benefits went to Coca-Cola. I didn't know that eight months ago, nine months ago. I didn't know.

I knew there were a lot of food additives, but I didn't know that America, that the FDA allowed 10,000, and the EU only allows 400. I mean, that's incredible. And so the man for all of his, you know, flaws and imperfections has just peeled off this truth. And I can tell you having, I mean, we, you know, we ship, we ship nation. wide from our farm as well. And all my life, I've gotten up every morning and, okay, who can I sell to today? Who can I, who can I take a sample to? You know, marketing, marketing, marketing. How do we? And in the last 24 months, suddenly, you don't need to do that. No, no. It's just yanking us. It's hard to keep up. And it's the same, you know, for my friends in this space, I'm seeing

essentially the same thing. And it's very, very exciting because the, because the, because the, The logistics of distribution have plummeted, you know, FedEx, UPS, doorstep delivery. That cost has plummeted and the cost of bricks and mortar retail interface has escalated. The cost of a cashier, the cost of insurance to make sure the snow is swept off of the, you know, walk out front so nobody breaks and sues you. So as the one cost has soared, the other cost has dropped. And so we can, you ready for this? From our farm, if you had told me this two years ago, I said you were crazy. From our farm right now, at the end of a little pothole dirt road in rural Virginia,

we can ship four dozen eggs to any city in America cheaper than they can get them at farmers' market. You've got to be kidding me. Because cities are expensive places to do business. defund the police, crime, high taxes, high regulation. I mean, they're all blue, right? And I mean, you look at the map of the U.S., you know, it's red, but, you know, they're all urban centers. And those are expensive to do business in.

And so here we are kind of an inversion of the old, it's almost, I feel almost like a voluntary colonialist. You know, here we are. in a low tax, low regulation, you know, basically conservative little pocket, you know, leave us alone. And if we can get stuff on a UPS truck, literally the food system can completely circumvent the supermarket system. And that's the first time that's been possible at, at cost and at scale. Make you nervous at all what we learned at COVID, though? Oh, oh my goodness.

Yeah, yeah. While I, you know, and I, for the record, I didn't take the jab. Needed a die. Good for you. Good. Yeah. Yeah. But that, that, you know, I would like to think that if that rears its ugly ahead again, you know,

world economic form and what I don't want to get all conspiratorial. There's a conspiracy theory and a conspiracy fact. That's a conspiracy fact. The difference in the two is six months. Is that right? Yeah, it's exactly right. It's exactly right. So that really was an emperor has no close moment, I think, in our culture.

And the distrust now, that's ubiquitous in the cult, the distrust of government institutions, the distrust of the big food, what I call the chemical industrial. food complex. The distrust of the colleges, the elitists, you know, the mainstream narrative, if you will, is just glorious. It really is glorious. Yeah. If it doesn't, if we can fix it and not just burn it down to the ground.

Right. Right. You know, that's a scary part because there's some, you know, there's some good things that we need. We just need to rethink this. And, you know, people are, you know, these. These companies are making billions and billions and billions of dollars. And nobody's interested in retooling unless they absolutely have to.

And they'd much rather throw money at it. And can you protect us? Make this go away. Look at Trump right now. And I'm, for the record, I'm happier Trump's in there than Kamala. Okay. I mean, just, but I mean, here he is throwing $12 billion again at the soybean farmers to, you know, two years ago. They got another $12 billion bailout.

And the soybean, we don't use soy. Half of the soybeans produced in the U.S. are exported. Half of them. The world is a wash in soybeans. We don't need that many soybeans. And almost half of the corn we grow in the U.S. goes into ethanol. So here we are subsidizing these six things. Well, crop insurance.

It's changed. Crop insurance now. It sounds a little better than subsidy. But here we are. subsidizing, you know, rice, sugar, cane, wheat, corn, soybeans that we have an overabundance of. Meanwhile, we're way short on beef. You know, beef prices have gone. I mean, if you follow that, you know, the beef herd is lower than it's been since 1950.

Wow. Who has seen this coming? We're all getting older. And I don't know about you, but I have definitely felt the aches and pains that come along with that sort of thing. I used to suffer from really horrible pain in my hands, pretty much all the time. You'll notice I said, I used to. I tried everything. I went to some of the best doctors in the world and nothing, nothing that we tried, worked until that day that something actually did. And I have to thank my wife and Relief Factor. My wife said, I'm not going to listen to you wine

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Okay. I raise about 100 head of cattle. And, you know, it's all organic, you know, grass fed. We just bring them out to the pastures, let them eat. And I've learned a lot by raising beef. I think what we went wrong as a nation is when we stop putting our hands in the dirt. You know, so many things just answer themselves. You know, you're better people, you rely on your neighbor, all of this stuff.

But then when you get to the place to where you're auctioning off your beef, I believe that the big production houses, the big packers. The big, yeah, the big packers. The big four. Yeah. They seem more like the big one. And they are, they have been screwing our farmers. and are beef farmers for a very long time.

I brought it up to the president before, I brought it up to RFK. Somebody's got to break that up because we are, we have such a shortage of beef, and I'd like you to talk about that for a second. But at the same time, beef farmers are barely making it. Yes.

Beef is at an all-time high, but they're not getting paid for it. Yeah, yeah. Well, and when Trump came on there two months ago, berating farmers for their high high prices feeder cattle you know four bucks a pound there uh it really angered a lot of farmers because nobody's nobody's helped beef farmers when the price has been under you know under profit so um so it's still close it's not but it's no beef farmers are not they're just every year they just squeak by yeah yeah yeah so so um

you've just opened up the door for My crusade is a bad word, but it's as good a word as I know right now. I'll put my helmet on. Let's go. For my thing. And that is, so Bernie Sanders, who walks around the country, got to stop the oligarchy. Got to stop the oligarchy. That's right.

He's right. Okay. The problem is that the liberal class, their only solution to the oligarchy is a bigger government bully, you know, antitrust. whatever, to come in and break them up. The problem is the oligarchy is in bed with the government. Yes, yes, yes, yes. They become one. Exactly.

In 1906, when Teddy Roosevelt-Veltsky, I call him Rosavelsky. Yeah, good for you. I like that. When Teddy Rooseveltsky got, at that time, in 1906, after it's up in Sinclair wrote The Jungle, within six months, those seven companies, the seven Packers, Swift, armor, that controlled, at that time, seven companies controlled 50% of America's meat supply in 1906. They lost 50% of their sales in six months after that book was published. That's the power of an informed citizenry.

People will make good decisions if they get the truth. But if they don't get the truth, they can't make a decision. And so the seven big companies came to Teddy Roosevelt. They said, please, help us. we've got to get credibility with the American consumer again, set up an agency to put a stamp on our products so that the American public will say, okay, this is okay. And he should have said, you made your bed, now go lie in it. And if he had independent certifiers would have, you know, triple A for beef or whatever, okay? But no, he gave them the food safety inspection service in 1908.

And since the inception of the food safety inspection service FSIS, there's been a steady march of additional regulatory structure within the food and especially the meat industry that has added, added, added scale prejudicial regulations that make it easy for big guys to succeed and hard for little guys to succeed. So we have lost the neighborhood abattoir. We have lost this entire infrastructure of our country. I mean, does anybody think that the supermarket shelves in 2020, in April 2020, would we have been, would we have had as big a, you know, hiccup in our, especially meat supply, had the country been nourished by 300,000 neighborhood. abattoirs as opposed to 300 mega processing facilities around the country. It's a rhetorical question.

There's an easy answer. You know, when you're in rocky waters, you want to be in a speedboat, a little speedboat you can turn around, not an aircraft carrier that takes 12 miles turn around in. You know, the business book, it's not the big that eats the small. It's the fast that eat to slow. And when you're a bureaucratic, a large bureaucratic institution, movement is very, very difficult. When you're small like we are, you're a little speedboat, hey, we can adjust. And the little slaughterhouse that we co-own, you know, we got 25 employees.

You know, we didn't miss a lick. We didn't miss a day of work. We didn't miss anything. And in fact, on our farm, we sold six months worth of inventory in six weeks in the spring of 2020. It was the best economic thing that ever happened to us, even though we lost almost a million dollars of restaurant sales, because they all closed. But we picked it up on the retail end. So what do we do about this, oligarchy, about the fact that now 120 years after FSIS was started, we now don't have seven companies controlling 50%. We have four companies control 85%.

This is not a free market. Not at all. It has been an intervented, meddled federal program from the beginning. So here's my solution. instead of a bailout, instead of a federal trade commission, instead of Smoot Hartley, whatever, okay, instead of any of that, let's try freedom, let's try liberty. We need a- You are a lunatic. Yeah, we need a food emancipation proclamation.

Yeah. And I am not a bash to say I am using every bit of whatever political equity I have to get a 30-minute audience with Trump to pitch him a food emancipation proclamation. We need to take the shackles off of a farmer so that the farmer can sell to his neighbor right now. If you came to my farm and said, man, you make a great chicken pot pie. I've got guests coming next week. Could you make me five? I'll buy them so I can sit my guest. I'm busy. Illegal. You got two Guernsey cows. Oh man, I'd love some raw milk. Could you sell? Nope, can't sell it to you. What's happened since 1906 is convenience food.

Back then, people cooked in their kitchens. You didn't have TV dinners. You didn't have squeezable cheese. And you certainly didn't have luncheables in hot pockets. Okay. So today, 75%, and this is, again, uncovered by RFK Jr., 75% of America's food is convenience food. we watch cooking shows but we don't cook you know never has a culture been so techno-sophisticated gadgetized in our culinary kitchens but not used it and so so 75 percent of our and this is this

has literally been an epiphany for me in in literally in the last 12 months I have preached all my life to I do a lot of urban stuff I you know urban foodie presentations and stuff. And what can I do? I always say, get in your kitchen. The best thing you can do is get in your kitchen, get real food, you know, get a butternut squash, peel it and fix it, cook it, you know. And I've realized I've become a Don Quixote on that.

That horse left the stable. Americans are, I hope we will eventually, but right now the answer is not get in your kitchen because we are so far removed from our kitchens now that that when I say get in your kitchen it's it's offensive to the average person they don't know how to boil an egg I know and and so so instead of being offensive what we need to do is say okay you're getting convenience food we need you to be able to get good convenience food a chicken pot pie does not have to have MSG and glycerin in it or red dye 29 or whatever is they put in. Okay.

A good chicken pot pie can be made in your kitchen with nothing like that and frozen. I know. And it's wonderful. And I love chicken pot pies or a keesh or shepherd's pie or any of these convenience type foods can be made like this. I speak, Glenn, I speak at two thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands because there are a lot of homestead festivals around the country. And these are big, you know, four, five, six, seven thousand people. And these are small holders. You know, they might have five, ten, fifteen, twenty acres.

They would love to make a living on their farm. Okay. So right now, our farm supplies a local restaurant with chicken that they make a chicken pot pie. It's on a menu, polyface pastured chicken pot pie. It's their signature dish. It comes in a wonderful little cast iron skillet, you know. Oh, it's just fabulous.

they take a $20 chicken and turn into $405. Okay. Now, if we take off 205 of that because it's a restaurant and say, I could do that and make, because I don't have a waitress, I don't have, you know, all the overheads. So I can make $200 worth of pot pies out of that. That's a tenfold, a $20 chicken is $200. Okay?

So we cover an acre with 600, we move them every day, chickens across the pasture. They're in little, you know, floorless shelters to protect them from predators, move them across the pasture every day. And 600 birds cover one acre, you know, in the course of several weeks that they're out there. These are meat chickens, not bird, not laying chickens. And so if you had two acres and you could raise 1,200 of these and you could sell chicken pot pie to your neighbors as a convenience food, you can take those 1,200 chickens times 200 is $240,000. You can make a living on two acres selling a convenience food straight out of your home kitchen.

And really good living. A good living if we had a food emancipation proclamation. The problem is farmers, entrepreneurial farmers, who are ready to. to value add. These are not commodity farmers. These are people, I mean, some big farmers, little farmers, all in between, that view themselves as entrepreneurs as opposed to just, you know, raising corn for the man, all right? I run in, there are thousands and thousands and thousands of them around this country that

are ready to access their neighborhoods with well-made, unadulterated. So here's a convenience food, but it's illegal. When you were little, you had been braced in the course of recreat, always in trying to negotiate, exchange these cards of hockey, these bonhom, these bracelets,

even des collations. You know that each thing has a value, well, before to have seen. And, and the things have not really changed. Negoti-tit-T-D

you can't to renew with your instinct of negotiation. With, without operation gratuit, no amount of minimum and no free

mensuel. You're made for negotiate, And the appell negotiates CETRETED is made for you aid. Telecharge it right now. Here's the pushback on that. The reason why they'll say, well, no. Because you got to check for safety.

You got to make sure those kitchens are clean. You got to make sure XYZ. And to some degree, that's true. You don't, I mean, there are going to be people that are doing really nasty stuff. Absolutely. There are always. So how do you solve for that? So you solve it, you solve it by limiting it to direct sale.

In other words, I can't sell this to Walmart. I can't sell it to a third party. You and I have to, as two consenting adults, exercising freedom of choice for our microbiome, we should be able to engage in a food transaction of provenance without asking the government's permission. Yeah, that's absolutely right. I mean, what good is it to be able to assemble, pray, preach? if we can't choose our body's fuel to give us the energy to go, pray, preach, and assemble.

I mean, it's such a fundamental human right. I mean, we talk about human agency. My ultimate agency is, I mean, it's more intimate than the act of marriage, okay? And so being able to choose that. So safety, here's the thing, all the other thing, all the other part, of our culture where there's hazardous material like drugs, prescription drugs, whatever. The prohibitions are across the board. You can't use it.

You can't give it. You can't give it away. You can't take it. You can't sell it. You can't buy it. You can't sell it. You can't give it away. You can't, all right?

Except in food. In food, I can give you a pot pie. You can feed it to your friends all day. Perfectly safe. what is it about exchanging money that suddenly turns it from a benevolent thing to a hazardous substance? I can give you a glass of milk. In fact, you can feed it to your children. In fact, you can buy it.

I just can't sell it. Nobody ever gets taken to court for buying illegal food. Who gets taken to court is the farmer or the value adder who, who produced it, who created it. So, so the ultimate hypocrisy of this is that all other hazardous substances that can go between our lips, the prohibition is everything. Is everything. But food, it's only on the cellar.

And so it's not about safety. I mean, they will say it's about safety. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, but ultimately, if you start drilling down. on it's actually about controlling market access. And so what we have right now is we have a real problem in American agriculture in our aging farmer. Our farmers are now 60 years old in the next 15 years. That's one five, 15 years, half of all America's agriculture equity will change hands.

That's never happened in any civilization in peace. it's only happened in conquest. You know, the huns come in and take over Rome. The Polynesians come, okay. But I can make the case that is happening, that it is the industrial farmer that has made conditions so bad that the young farmers, the ones who are watching their mom and dad, they work this hard, barely make it every year.

Yeah. I don't want to work like that. Yeah. Well, the problem is that when old people, can't get out or when young people can't get in, old people can't get out. Yes. And so these farmers continue to age, age, age. And you're right.

The ultimate, we hear the word, you know, regenerative farming now over and over and over again. Well, you know, when somebody asked me about regenerative farming, you know, they're thinking soil and earthworms and all that stuff. my first reaction is, is it attractive to young people? Does your third generation farmer, right? I'm, well, I'm second generation. Our son now is third generation. He operates it. But it doesn't have to be family. I mean, we have, I mean, we run a very formal stewardship and apprenticeship

program on our farm, and we just had 135 applicants for 11 spots. And these are Americans. They're not. I mean, I don't want to get down that rabbit trail. But these are many times college educated, articulate, sharp, well-spoken. And a lot of these young people, they get five, six years into their Dilbert cubicle career. And suddenly they're sitting there, you know, at their screen and they're looking and said, man, I really would rather be out running at zero-turn mower with the landscape crew at the corporate headquarters.

And they start yearning for something that's, that's, that's, visceral that they can touch. We had the most amazing, we had a guy come from, from Chase Manhattan Bank. He worked in the belly of the beast in New York. He came as an apprentice. And he came in one day for supper and he was almost in tears. He was visibly, you know, moved. I said, what, you know, what's the deal? He said, well, he said, he said, my career has been working, you know, at this cubicle with, you know, three team members. One's in Tokyo. One's in Shanghai. One's in London and me. and we build these, you know, we build these electronic, you know, whatever, skeleton, you know, financial skeletons in cyberspace,

puts a button at the end of the day. It goes, who knows where. And we do the same thing tomorrow, tomorrow. And he said, today, you know, with the team, we built a millennium feather net. That's what we call our portable laying structure, a millennium feather net named after the Millennium Falcon and Star Wars. And I knew you'd like that. And the Millennium Feathernet.

And he said, we worked on it all day and we pounded nails. We cut boards. We put the screws in. And he said, and he just got all tear. He said, and tomorrow. And he said, and my team, we talked, we joked. I could see them. We could touch.

We held things for each other. And tomorrow morning, I'm going to wake up and go out there and it's still going to be there. And he was just, you know. And this tactile, tactile, visceral. encounter with life. Nothing, nothing has meaning anymore or substance. And that is only going to get worse. Nothing.

That's right. And I know, I bought my ranch when I was in New York City. And I just wanted to get out of the city. And what I didn't realize, the first day we were there, we started a campfire, set around the campfire, and there's no light pollution there. Yeah. And the campfire started to die down. And we all sat there as a family.

We looked up at the sky. and we did what I hadn't done in years. Yeah. Wow, we are small. Yeah. You're living in the cities. You don't see the moon. All you see are things that man has created, especially New York City.

And you don't have those. And then I didn't have to talk to my kids about, you know, how the birds and the bees were. They saw the cattle. Okay. They saw the animals. Yeah. This is where the calves come from. Right.

They know exactly what is happening. Yeah. You know, it's just that experience, you know, my son who really does not like to work hard, works hard on the ranch. And every time he says, I feel so good. Yeah. Of course you do. That's right.

Because you're working, you're creating something with your own hands and it's real and you're worn out at the end of the day. Yeah. We see that in our culture in the bifurcation of the red and blue in that the red tends to be rural and the blue is urban. And I've concluded that part of the reason is because the rural areas, I'm just being very general here, a rural area, we are immersed every day, as you've just described, in the magnificence of creation, the smallness of people, and we're immersed in something that divinity created.

You know, God makes the trees, he makes the grass, he makes, I mean, ultimately. And so we're immersed in divine expression in our world. In the city, you're immersed in human-made everything. Cars, roads, honking, you know, streetlights. Everything is man-made. Even success. I mean, you know, I know because, you know, my crops pay for the cattle for the whole, you know what I mean? Right.

And we'd have a perfect, we did everything right. We did everything right. And then it rains. In the city, you're like, you know, this. This isn't fair. This isn't fair. And you blame it on somebody. Right, right. There is no one to blame by God. Yeah. You know what I mean? And so you're like crap. And that forces your neighbors to see you and go, thank God it didn't happen to me this year, but it did happen two years ago. I'm helping them out because I'm going to need them to help me out when I'm like that.

Yeah. And the whole thing just works. Everything just works. Yeah. Schumacher, you know, talked about anonymity in small as beautiful. And it is in his iconic book. And he talked about, he talked about if you want to get lost, go to the city. If you want to find community, go to the country. Because in the country, everybody knows your car. They know when you go out, when you come in.

They, oh, he didn't go out. What's the deal? You know, but in the city, it's anonymous. Yes. You know, people don't even know the person across the room. And so, yeah, I think you're exactly right. So one of the pathways, one of the pathways of entry, you know, if we say that if we're going to save agriculture, we need to create pathways of entry for young people, the quickest way to enter is to be able to capture the retail dollar that's in your neighborhood. That's the quickest way to enter because you don't have to own a thousand acres.

You don't have to buy a ranch. You can get two, three, four, five acres, a little homestead, if you will, and you can make a living. And so that's why this idea of a food emancipation proclamation is funny. People say, well, do you think it's legal? And I said, I don't think Trump cares.

I think if he thinks it's right, he'll do it and then let the court sort it out. And I think nothing could be more Trumpian than a food emancipation proclamation. I mean, it's just such. Trumpian. And I bet he has not. I bet it's been a very long time since he has cracked an egg and seen how vibrant

that yoke is. And then the next time you go to the store and you're like, okay, well, that's an egg. What is my first response was, what is wrong with that egg? No, no, no. What's wrong with the eggs you're buying at the store? And when you see that, You know, then it just becomes, oh, I get it. Sure, sure.

And most people, most people have never tasted the kind of food that we produce. They don't know what it is. Yeah. I mean, we had a lady in. She had a little very small, very small, six-year-old boy, clearly was, you know, struggling a little bit. She says, he's such a picky eater. He won't eat anything. And she got a couple dozen eggs.

She called me two days later. He's eating six eggs a day. His body was starved for nutrition. You know, he was eating stuff, but it wasn't nutritional. And so many people, many people don't trust what they see in the story anymore, but they don't know where to turn. And I'm telling you, based on the thousands of farmers and homesteaders that I encounter every year, if we had a food emancipation proclamation, there would be an atomic explosion of value-added convenience opportunity in neighborhoods all over this country. And suddenly, that good food would be affordable because all food regulations are scaled prejudicial.

It's easier to comply if you're big than if you're small. We own a small federal inspected slaughterhouse up in Harrisonburg. It costs us $600 to do what JBS, one of the big four. beatpackers, what it cost them $150 to do. Because we have the same hasop plan, the same paperwork. But we spread our inspector and bathroom and all these special inspection overheads. We spread it over 50 beef a week. They spread it over 5,000 a day.

And it's exactly the same. And so when people accuse me of being, well, you're elitist, your prices are high, all that, they don't have to be. They're only high because we're trying to squeeze. We don't have a food emancipation proclamation. So we're trying to squeeze our low volume through this industrial screen. But that I think has been all done at first. I think I don't think people in the government cared or cared to figure it out or look into it and really understand it. They were just like, oh, well, that's what the big guy says needs to happen. So we've got to do that. Yeah. Well, when people, people blame. So where I differ with a lot of my friends is they view, well, the big guys are

trying to run people like us out of business. No, no, no, no. It's the consumer advocates, the Ralph Naderites that are asking for government intervention to protect them. They're asking for a safety net, a security, you know, something. They, they, as, as food industrialized and went behind big, you know, screens with, you know, no trespassing signs, they said, well, we need a bigger bully to look over the fence to protect our interests, what they didn't realize was their bully was going to go to bed with what was the last of the fist. And that's the oligarchy. He's right. And that's what happened.

And so where we are now is we now have the ability to Uberize our food system. 60 years ago, if I said, I'm going to Calcutt. I'm going to jump in a car that doesn't even have a taxi thing on it. I don't know if the driver has been vetted or not. and he's going to take me to the museum, I'd say, what, are you crazy? You can be kidnapped. Why does Uber work? Well, because the internet has democratized vetting. It has democratized vetting to the point where we can have real-time sleuthing of a global voice to vet the butcher baker and candlestick maker that 500 years ago were embedded in the village. Everybody know who the scofflaws were. Everybody knew who the good one was because they all went to church together.

The kids played together. They lived above their shops. Everybody knew who the good ones were and who the bad ones were. That got corrupted or dimmed. It became opaque, let's just say that, in the Industrial Revolution with scale and with opaqueness. And suddenly, the Internet has blown this open to re-embed the butcher-baker candlestick maker observations and democratize everybody.

view of them so that we've been able to to have Uber. I mean, that's how Uber worked. I mean, think about this. This launched in a place that, yeah, we got to make sure these guys can drive, that the car is acceptable, blah, blah, blah. Circumvented everything. Talk about safety. Uber circumvited everything.

Airbnb. You know, think about that. In 10 years, Airbnb launched, in 10 years, the globe got double, it doubled the hospitality rooms of Marriott, Sheraton, and Hilton. Those three conglomerates combined, Marriott, Sheraton, and Hilton, doubled the number of rooms without pounding a nail. What? You're going to go stay in somebody's house. How you know they, maybe they have a bomb there?

Maybe they're trying to hurt you. You know, all that, nothing. Why? Because of the Internet has re-embedded the village vetting voice in a global situation. So agriculture and food were the last to join the industrial revolution. I mean, the beginning, yeah, I said it was Cyrus McCormick's Reaper, but technology really went, you know, communication, transportation, okay, all that. Farming and food were kind of the last to join that technological revolution. And because of that, it will be the last to exit.

And so, you know, I say the Food Emancipation Proclamation, I'm also happy to say we need to Uberize our food system. I mean, you can come at this from numerous threads. And in fact, you know, I've just finished the rough draft of my 18th book just literally this morning as I was waiting to come here. I had another thought for another chapter. And hopefully it'll be out this summer. And the title is Food Emancipation, Unshackling America's Sustinance. And I want to present these arguments as an idea, as a liberty, freedom-oriented idea to what has been, the foodies, the food, the food, the environmental food movement, if we just broadly, environmental food movement, has been on the liberal side of the spectrum. And the problem is, wonderful people, and, of course, I have deep, deep friendships all through that realm.

But the thought that we can beat, that we can beat the oligarchy with freedom and not with a bigger government agency, a bigger government hammer, is never enters their mind. No. The answer is always, you know, and I agree. I don't know who said it. You probably know, some famous said that the only way there can be a monopoly is with collusion with the government. In a free market, monopolies can't exist because there are too many eager beavers yapping at the heels of an outfit. And so I tend to agree with that. And so if we want to chip away, if we want to actually create movement, a pathway of entry for new young farmers, which enables an exit for old farmers, a pathway into.

healthy food by people who want to get healthy food and to chip away at the power of the oligarchy. The answer is liberty. The answer is open up the market for all these friends of mine plus me that are chafing at the bit to just offer an alternative to the oligarchy to our friends and neighbors, people at church. You're fabulous. I can't wait for your book to come out. Thank you. And I will, I got to get a copy because if I see the president, I will pass it on to him.

I think you're on to something. Yeah. One of my previous books written 15 years ago is the title is, everything I want to do is illegal. And that articulates many of the frustrations that we've, you know, got abandoned about the day. But this one, this one is going to be the solution. Yeah, that's good.

Thank you. Thank you. Just a reminder, I'd love you to rate and subscribe to the podcast and pass this on to a friend so it can be discovered by other people.