The Glenn Beck Program - Ep 35 | Félix Rodríguez | The Glenn Beck Podcast

Episode Date: May 4, 2019

This week, Glenn talks with Former CIA operative Félix Rodríguez, who participated in the historic manhunt to capture Ernesto "Che" Guevara. Rodríguez who is a Cuban-American Vietnam veteran who fought in the Bay of Pigs invasion was recruited to train and lead a team to track down Guevara due to the fact that he had been instrumental in Fidel Castro's Cuban Revolution. In this podcast, Felix gives a first-hand account of the capture and execution of the man whose image is still being appropriated as a counterculture fashion statement. He also provides great detail into the type of sick criminal that Guevara was as he not only killed many during his lifetime, but he greatly enjoyed it.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It is a strange irony of history that the person you're about to be introduced to will be forever linked with Che Guevara, because the two men could not be more different. Che devoted his life to tyranny and death, and this man has devoted his entire life to freedom and life. He played an important role in stopping Che's murderous quest for communist revolution all around the world. Alongside Castro, Che terrorized Cuba, the nation where my next guest, was born. So it was fitting, I guess, strangely, as you hear him tell the story, that he was there in the mountains of Bolivia

in 1967 to be the man who heard Chey's final words. He was in the CIA. He was part of the Bay of Pigs disaster. He was in Vietnam. Played a huge role there. He put a price on Che's head, and because of that

had a price put on his head. He also found communism in El Salvador in the 1980s. He was a victim of a witch hunt by a U.S. Senator. He participated in some of the most pivotal events in the last 50 years of U.S. history and has a different look at even the JFK assassination. But in the end, as he's written in his memoir, he is just a man from an island nation of Cuba, who's just having a really hard time getting home. Today, the man who helped capture Che Guevara. I've interviewed celebrities. I've interviewed presidents.

And my staff doesn't usually get excited. You, on the other hand, everybody is very excited to hear what you have to say because you have been not just a witness. You've been right there and a catalyst in many cases of some of the biggest stories since Kennedy, since Castro went into Cuba. and I can't wait to get to the part about Che and to hear what he's what he was really like from somebody who met him, talked to him. And I gather in some way kind of liked him, appreciated him at the end as a human being when you were talking to him because you were extremely kind to him. Yes, it was very hard. You know, I had in my mind what he had done, the people who have assassinated. But then when I first saw him, the image that I had from him was completely different.

Here's a man that was completely in Iraq. He looks like a beggar. I remember his picture when he went to see Mao and the people of the Soviet Union and then see the way he was. You know, like a human being, you feel sorry for him. Yeah. That's what happened to me. But you can get past all the feeling sorry for him when you actually know what he did and I want to get into that. But you were born in 1941 in Cuba, and your parents did what in Cuba?

My father had a store in my hometown, Santyspiritus, that he ran there. Okay. Then actually in 1950, two when Batista took over, my uncle was my secretary of public work. and my mother went to Havana and that's when I moved with her. Okay. We spent a couple of years there. Then my uncle offered me to go to school in the estate.

So actually, in 1954, I came to Pennsylvania. I went to Perkiome and Preparatory School for high school. And I spent there until 1960 when I graduated. Okay, so before we get to that part, moving to the United States and where your parents ended up, tell me about Batista, because people don't really know about Batista and what the revolution was all.

about in Cuba. Batista comes from a very, very poor ancestors. He was working railroad before. He saw his brother, for example, died from pneumonia, and he didn't have any hospital to treat him. That's why he built up as the Goyante. So when he first took over in 1933, and he became president legally, by vote, he was a very good president. And then when he went wrong for the election, he lost, he turned over the presidency to whoever had won the elections then. Then later on, he moved to the United States and in Florida. And actually, he didn't plan the military coup that took place in 1952. People went to him from the military who were very, very in this agreement with the president,

Pryo, who was treated there very well. They had very low salaries, and the army was going to make a military coup no matter what. And he was the only leader that everybody will go around him. Otherwise, we're going to be probably some bloodshed. So he agreed to go ahead and head the military coup that took place in 1952. Now, he interrupted the democratic process in Cuba. But at the time, there were a lot of problems in Havana. For example, a lot of these gangster were, like in the time here when Al Capone, they were taking banks.

The Army was in very poor shape. And he restored a lot of that. And it was the area where Cuba really progressed a lot of. He did a lot of buildings, construction, highway, hospital, school. But of course, then, you know, power becomes a problem. Yeah, yeah. Now, the Castro's. Who were the Castro before they became Castro?

Well, Castro was always a kind of a revolutionary. He was not in agreement with the, a local situation at all. He participated in the Bogotazo in Colombia, and he was a revoltos, we call him there. Which meant? A guy who is, he's not in tune with the society. Okay, all right. He was, and he wanted to do something extraordinary. I recall people told me one time he went to visit the president of Cuba. He wanted to throw him down from the, from the balcony, to become prominent. He wants to be recognized. Right. He run from Congress. Congressman, he didn't make it.

So he did the Moncada attack where he became notorious because of that. And now he became then public to the Cuban people. Which was, what attack was that? In 1950, in 1956-67, he attacked the Moncada barracks in Oriente province. And they killed a lot of soldiers. It was actually part. They have a hospital in there. They killed a lot of people in there.

Then he roared into the mountain. That's when he became knowing. That took place on the 26th of July. So he used that momentum of that operation to call his movement 26 of July. Okay. Now, you're not there at the time. Your parents, your parents, they're there. But you're living in Pennsylvania.

You get an offer to live there and be educated in the United States. And your parents say, you've got to take this opportunity. Yeah, but I went back to Cuba in every single time that I had an opportunity to. So I went back to Cuba five times a year for Christmas vacation, summer vacation, It was home. It was home. And then your folks, during the Cuban Revolution, your parents happened to be vacationing in Mexico.

Right. And so you're in Pennsylvania. They're in Mexico. The revolution happens. If they would have been there, what do you suppose would have happened? Well, they took my uncle's home in Havana. They ransack and everything.

But my parents were already in Mexico for Christmas during that time. So I went from Pennsylvania to meet them in 1958, December of 1958. We spent new years together. That's when Cassia took over when Batista left. And I actually had a ticket to go from there to Cuba, which I never used because of the revolution itself. Then the thing that really impacted me that made the difference was

when I saw those massive executions that took place. Cuba never had the death penalty before. And this guy was executing people right and left, and there was the big process where so unbelievable unreal, the one that really impacted me when they did a trial for Sozablanco, he was a major in the Cuban army. And they brought a witness who claimed that Soza Blanco had assassinated his brother. And when the guy got into the room, he started pointing at the prosecutor and

telling the prosecutor, you kill my brother. He had to be told, no, no, he's the guy next to him. So, I mean, it was ridiculous. And then later on, we found out, and Sozablanco was executed, that his brother was in Miami and he never told his family. So he was never killed by anybody. He went back to Cuba after that. So that impacted me to a point that I decided how to do something. So people, strangely,

here in the United States, either know who these people are and know that they were monsters or they look at them like, I don't know, Swedish socialists. Well, the thing is, remember, when Castro was visited by Herbert Matthews, the newspaper guy in the Sierra Maestro,

made him like a hero. He made him like a Robin Hood to the American public and portray him that this guy is going to save Cuba, who was a bunch of few people were fighting this bigger army and all of that thing. And that was one of the things that really impacted a lot of the American population. So it's very similar to what the American press did with Hugo Chavez in absolutely. Okay. Now, you graduate from school. This is your home. You want to you want to free your home and claim your home. And you go, where do you go and see this big anti-communist movement? Well, Glenn, before I graduated in 1959, I went to visit my parents.

And the member from the Cuban Constitutional Army was recruiting people for the first operation against Castro that two placed the Dominican Republic, who was called the Anti-Communist Legion of the Caribbean. I was 17 years old at the time. So I joined that. I actually had to forfeit my father's signature to be able to get a visa because I was a minor at the Dominican Embassy in Mexico. So actually in the 4th of July, I arrived in the Dominican Republic. That was a fiasco.

I came back. I graduated. And then I applied to the University of Miami for engineering. And I was accepted. I got my letter of acceptance. Then when I got to Miami, I found out there was somewhere in Latin America, a place that they were training to fight against Castro. I decided that was more important than going to. school and go to the university here.

That's when I joined what later was called the Bay of Pig. I can't believe I'm talking to somebody who was there at the Bay of Pigs. Explain for anybody who doesn't know what that is, what that was. In the early 1960, President Eisenhower received information from the intelligence services that the Soviet were planning to bring offensive mission to the Cuba. So that's why Eisenhower ordered the CIA to destabilize the Castro regime. That's why a lot of people believe, you know, why do they give a, invasion to the CIA and not the Pentagon. It wasn't supposed to be an invasion. It was supposed to be

a guerrilla warfare in the Escambrite. They brought the Filipino colonel of Vallejo, whose real name was Napoleon Valeriano, who was very successful in the war against the Hawk in the Philippines. And the training that he started in Guatemala was three different groups, what they called the great teams, the black teams, and the occupational force. It was supposed to be an operation to increment the guerrillas in the Eskambrii mountain in the middle of the island, who was already taking place, and once we'd be able to have a stronghold in there declare a provisional government in arms. And what happened? Well, elections took place in this country.

And then President Kennedy was elected president. When he was brief on the operation, he decided to continue but changed the concept altogether. So they took this Colonel Balejo Valeriano out of the picture. They brought a guy from the Pentagon that disbanded the black teams. Because the idea was that the great team were going to Cuba before. That was part of it, infiltration team. We start working the resistance. Once the people start going to demand

that they bring the black teams, there were 25 men-age, highly trained, explosive demolition, air reception, maritime reception to receive weapons. And once there was a guerrilla strong enough to secure a small area, they will bring the rest of the brigade with a provisional civilian government, a powerful radio station we declared to the world

that was a governing arms promoting and guaranteeing a free election within a year. And that's what's going to be recognized by the OIS and by the United States. Of course, we all know. 99% American troops, 1% Latin American troops, and that was the end of Castro. Now, before the Bay of Pigs, though,

you were part of a three-man team that, is that right? Three-man team that went in, or you were off the coast of Cuba with Soviet weapons, and you were going to go in and assassinate Fidel. Yes, well, we were in Panama training, After they took the infiltration thing or great team. Now this was not, was this an American mission? No, no, let me explain.

Okay. We went from, you know, the great teams, we went from Guatemala into Panama for additional training. With Soviet equipment and everything. While we were there, a friend of my wife and then of Sevundo Borgen, myself went to talk to the CIA guy responsible for. And we volunteered to kill Castro because we felt that we could eliminate him. It would shorten the war and save a lot of life.

Sure. So when we went in January, we came to Miami, and we went to a place in Homestead area, they told me the operation was approved. So they gave me a rifle with a telescopic side, a very powerful rifle, 20 rounds of ammunition. They told me I only needed a few. And he said, not to touch the side, was already presided to this and I was going to kill Castro. So they added one more man to my team who was the radio operator, Javier Soto, who is now a present commissioner in the county, Florida. they gave us a luxurious jet to infiltrate Cuba, a white boat.

Later on, we only did belong to Sergeant Shriver relative of President Kennedy. Wait a minute. That's Maria Shriver's father, right? His father had a boat, apparently. Yeah. A very luxurious one. And they used that vote for that operation. It was an American captain and then a Ukrainian and Romanian crew all with Soviet equipment.

And they were supposed to infiltrators into Cuba. And then they will tell us where to go to a place to assassinate gastro. So here's a Kennedy using the boat, and you wouldn't think that a Kennedy or someone in the Kennedy family would be a part of that. At least history would tell us that different. Am I wrong on that? Well, let me tell you. Later on, after the Bay of Pig, they were very much committed to eliminate Castro. When we had an operation after the Bay of Pig, we said our team in Central America.

So that didn't happen. No, twice we got into the Cuban coastline. The boat who was supposed to be meeting us, we were supposed to go into that boat, never arrived. So the third time we came back, and then they threw the rifle away. They told me it was terminated that operation. Somehow they canceled,

and I went in like a member of the infiltration team for Las Vie. There were five of us, including Edgar Sopo. We all infiltrated Cuba on the last part of February of 1961. And how did you avoid? the trouble off the Bay of Pigs. How did you... Well, we were part of the Bay of Pigs. So we were like we called the Special Forces of the Brigade.

Right. So our group that was about... Altogether, we entered less than 40, 30-some people inside Cuba. There was very few of them who entered through the airport. It's illegal documentation claiming they were coming back from American University. One team parachuted over in Camaway Bronx.

And the rest of us entered clandestinely by boat to the Cuban line. And we had a mechanism with the resistance that they would have a guide to pick us up at the coastline. They would walk us like several kilometers into the main highway. Then car from the resistance would pick us up and take off to say half-sets in Havana. And then there we start working with the internal resistance against Castro. And so what they changed the team and the strategy, but what happened in the end on the ground? Well, one thing that we always make comments. comments about it is that they never advised us of the invasion coming in. We had enough

explosive and equipment to be able to blow bridges on the way to the Bay of Picks. But they never confided on us. They never told us when they actually learned the invasion coming on through the radio, to the Cuban radio on the 17 of April, when they start calling all the militias to join, you know, go to their military units and all of that. We never received a thing from our stations in Miami until after the invasion took place. And there was impossible to do anything at the time because Castro did something that was very intelligence, especially in the main cities, including Havana, they went house by house and by block by blog, they surrounded with soldiers. And if you were a male and you were not

assigned to a military unit, even they have nothing that you weren't in the regime or anything like that, they would pick you up and put you in a temporary, like, say, concentration camp. Like baseball field with high fences, had 250,000 Cubans. Wow. The Blankita Theater, who has a capacity of 5,500 people in there. So they were able to disarticulate the Cuban internal resistance who was very well organized. They picked up a lot of our people who were released later because they had no idea who they had. But they destroyed the operational capability of our units.

Were the Soviets involved with intelligence with Cuba? No, well, they supported them with intelligent, but that was strictly a Cuban operation. Okay. But they did support later and how active were they? All along. All along. They seem to be ahead of everything. And the Czechoslovakian intelligence,

all of those were very closely with the Cuban intelligence. So you leave this, and you're not really working for the government. You're kind of just a revolutionary at this time, if you will, or a freedom fighter. We didn't know that we were working for the CIA. You didn't know. No. Yeah, okay. But you were actually.

We were. Okay. And I read something where it said that you, volunteered to go to work for the CIA. I didn't know they took volunteers. Well, it was not a way of volunteering. You know, when you are in that system, you are part of it. And then, you know, later I learned it was the CIA.

So I continued to work with them after the Bay of Pigs. So after the Bay of Pigs was a fiasco, I had to seek political asylum in the Venezuelan embassy in Havana, which I spent like six months as a political asylum people. And on 13th of September of 1961, they flew us out of Havana with diplomatic coverage of being a political exile to Venezuela. I spent a couple of weeks in Venezuela, and early in October of 1961, the agency asked me to go back inside Cuba to reestablish contact with the resistance. So I started traveling to Cuba with intelligence team in October of the same year. I made like seven different trips to Cuba during that time, brought in teams and everything until after the Bay of Pets. pigs. And it was the Bay of Pigs that really kind of turned the psyche of Cubans, wasn't it?

That it was, they kind of lost hope that. Oh, yes. After the fiasco, a lot of people who were helping us, when they saw that no longer a success, then a lot of people retrieved the support from us. They were afraid because they knew they were they were taking years and years and years in prison. So actually, let me tell you, in 1962, I completely quit the CIA. 1962. Yeah, I decided to get married to my present wife of 57 years. Oh, good for you.

And, you know, but I told her before we got married, say, look, if there is anything serious about you, I will go. If you agree on that, we get married. If you don't, we don't. And she made the mistake of agreeing to that. Because it only lasted two months. We were married in the 25th of August. I started working, first of all, in a company who did manufacture some propaganda for a hotel,

and then in a meat company called toving packaging company. In October of that year, I got a call for Tom Klein, a guy from the CIA who asked me to meet him at the parking lot of the Howard and Johnson across from the University of Miami. So when I finished my work, that was two months after we got married. I go to this parking lot.

I sat in his car and he looked at me and said, Felix, the Marines are going to landing Q and we need you. When I look at him and say, Tom, the Marines are going to line in Cuba, what the hell do you need me for? I said, well, we need you to parachute near a Soviet base in Santa Clara with a radio beacon to set it up on a pre-located area

that we're going to give you so that our Air Force can hit with precision the missile base. Because at the time they didn't have the GPS and navigation system we have today. So I agree, and from that point on, they took me into a hotel. I couldn't even call my wife. She didn't know anything. And they gave me the training from a table, my three point of contact to jumping. That was my parachuted training during the time. And then the day they brought the parachute, they were ready to go into Cuba.

That's when Cruz Chef back down. If he had delayed for 15 hours, we have the last. landing there and nothing happened. We were lucky that he did that before we were able to land inside Cuba. So then after that, you know, I was out without a job, so I continued to work from the CIA from there on. Well, who else asks you to jump out of a plane and stop the Cuban missile crisis? Tell me about Che and who he was.

You see people wearing these t-shirts of Che. And to me, it is like wearing a t-shirt with Hitler's face. on it. He was not a good man, and somehow or another, he's been turned into a good man and a product. Right. Who was he? Well, he was a cold blood of assassin. Let me tell you how I got there. In 66, I went to Venezuela on behalf of the agency to set up some communication equipment. In 67, they called me to a meeting in Miami with an interview late 16 Cuban, and they got two of us to go to Bolivia to advise the Second Ranger Battalion. And the reason they were using Cuban, was because we were not U.S. citizen. Ambassador Henderson, who was the U.S. ambassador,

had a prohibition of American citizens participating in combat or areas of danger because Vietnam was already taking place, and there were people coming back in plastic back from Vietnam. And they didn't want that to happen from South America. So I remember that after my interview with this guy who selected me, and later on I asked him, why do you select me? He said, what question I asked you at the end of every interview was, when would you be ready to be trying to go to Bolivian? In this case, for an operation,

everybody told him I need a few days, whatever. My answer to him was, if I have time, I'll go to my home. I said goodbye to my wife, to my kids, bring my clothes, and we go. We don't have time. I give me the phone. I call Ross and tell her I have to go. And if we don't have time, let's go, I'll give you a hair number, and you call her and you tell her I have to go.

I guess nobody ever told him that. That's why he selected me to go to Bolivia in that operation. Wow. So we landed in Bolivia. First of all, the first day that we arrived, they took us directly from the airport to see President Barientos. Okay, stop for a second, because you're telling me the story now of capturing him, right? Tell me who he was.

Tell me the butcher that he was. So people have an understanding of who Che really was in Cuba. He was really, I think, a frustrated individual. And he developed a love for assassinating people. Even wrote his father saying that he has tasted that and he loved to kill people, which he did. He was responsible for hundreds of execution at La Cabana Fortress. He personally executed a lot of people himself personally.

There were two incidents that I learned from later on. One was a lady who I met in a funeral home in Miami, and she was telling me when she learned that I was in Bolivia at that time that her son was 17-year-old in 1961. They had picked him up, and they were going to execute him. And she went to see Chella Cabagna and asked him for mercy. So she said, what is the name of your son? And she gave the name.

When he going to be executed? It was a Monday. They said, this coming Friday, Commander, please save his life. He's not going to do it again. So he called for an assistant, and he thought she had saved his life when he told the assistant, what get delayed his son now and execute him now,

so she doesn't have to wait until, Friday. That was his version of mercy. That's right, and she fainted. Later on I met about a few months ago a lady whose father was later executed in Cuba was in the police. And she claimed that she was

at 10 o'clock in the morning, this line, to be able to see his father, La Cavania Fortress. And this lady was with her started asking, calling Che when he arrived. And when she arrived, she said, please, Commander, you know, my son, I've been in prison now for two weeks. I haven't been able to sleep in this two weeks. Please save his life.

very young. He asked the same thing, what's the name of your son. He called an sister to bring her son right in front of her. There was a bunch of people waiting to see their different families who were in prison there. And he told the kid, get on the floor, USOB, you have your mother two weeks without sleeping because of you. He put out his picture and shot him in the head. Oh my gosh. He said all the people in the line and start calling an assassin. And they stopped that day, nobody could see their, they disbanded everybody. They could not go in and visit

their prisoners. That was. was the type of man that he was. Do you have any thoughts on why he has been turned into such a hero? Well, Cuba is responsible to a great extent for the propaganda that they made worldwide, using the picture with his beret, and that became like a symbol. But people really doesn't know who really he was. The people of Cuba still know who he is? A lot of people of Cuban beginning to know now who he was, yes.

But before no. Even in the school, they have to say, Pioneros for the Communism, We're like, Cheon, you know, Pioneer for Communism, will be like Chee every day before they start classes in the moment. So it was a continuous indoctrination, you know, like a big figure who died for the revolution, for the poor, which was not the case at all.

All right. So now you're in Bolivia and you go meet the president. It's what year? That was in 1967. 67. And everybody's looking for Chee. Right. First of all, let me tell you.

They found out that Che was there when they captured Debrae and Bustos. There were two, one, Argentine journalist and an intellectual from France who were captured. Because before, they had to believe that Che had been killed in Africa. Che was in Africa in 1964, 65. All the military equipment that he received in Africa was from Red China. Che was pro-Chinese. And that's why Cuba had completely abandoned him and were on the destruction to try to get him capture or destroy,

in Bolivia because Cuba depended on the Soviet Union and Che was pro-Shaenis. So the thing that can tell you this definitely was like that was, first of all, the radio station, the radio that they gave him to transmit back to Cuba when it arrived to Bolivia was broken. He could not communicate with Cuba.

The head of the Communist Party in Bolivia, Mario Monge, who had met with Fidel two months before went to see Chez the 31st of December of 1966 where they had dinner together for New Jersey if and they retreat all the support from the Communist Party from him. Even told the people from the Communist Party who were accompanying him that they stayed with him,

they would be expelled from the Communist Party. And then the man that they had to help him, his name was Renan Montero, intelligent from the Cuban intelligence section who was in place in La Paz, who got tremendous contact. The guy was even invited to some of President Bariento's Paris at the presidential palace. Once she was in with all 17 people, they retrieved him back to Cuba with the pretext. text that his visa had expired. And he had acquired the Bolivian citizenship. So it's a strong indication he was sent there to be killed, definitely.

So this is bizarre. The guy who they still have on sides of buildings, his face in the beret. Right. Jay, they say they love him. They're still making him into a hero. But it was Cuba that wanted him dead. Right. In Russia.

Absolutely. Okay. Do you know why? Why did he flip? or was he always against Russia? I think he was always a sympathizer of Mao. Who was even a bigger monster? Well,

but let me tell you, in 1963, when he went to that trip through Alger, they gave him a reception at the Cuban embassy in Cairo. And one diplomat who was there who later defected told us that during that thing, he actually went to a fifth fight with the Soviet ambassador because of ideology, because he was pro-Chinese.

So definitely he was in no good turn with the Soviet Union whatsoever. So they send him to Bolivia to be killed. And how does this involve you now? Well, I was supposed to be advising the second-range battalion intelligence with them, give them the capability. When they learned that Che was there, and of course the Bolivian army was very poorly prepared, they sang a special force-esteem entity from Panama, headed by Pappy Shelton, a major from Tennessee who trained a second-ranger battalion, specialized in counter insurgency. So those were just two factors. The special forces trained in this battalion, and we represent the

intelligence community supporting them intelligence, not only in La Pazas, but also in the operational area. So I became like an advisor to the eighth division headquarters that the area where he was operating. I was working directly with Colonel Centeno and I, the commander of the division, and Mayor Hernando Sausedo, who was the head of intelligence. So whenever they capture some documents and things like that, I went with them to oversee documentation, do the exploitation of the documentation, et cetera. So that became very effective. For example, there was an encounter of a commander of the Cuban guerrilla,

Juan Vittalio, Acuna Nune, who got separated from Chez to do a sort of exploration on the other side of the Rio Grande. And he was trying to come back to where Che was on the four division headquarters. And of course, the Rio Grande is very difficult to come. cross when there is raining season. They have to know where. Otherwise, even the guerrilla lost some people trying to cross it by themselves. So they went to this campesino called Norato Rojas to tell him where to cross and he already worked for the army. So who went to a captain nearby and told him the location where they were going to cross and they basically

annihilated the whole guerrilla with the exception of three guys. One left by the river. One was captured. Paco, Jose, Gasdejo, Chavez, and so my commuter was executed after he was captured. And we knew from the briefing in Washington that Paco wanted to defect, to leave because he was not a guerrilla. He was a communist, but not a guerrilla. He was told he was going to be secure at the Soviet Union. When he arrived to this place,

they gave him a rifle, Juerre and a guerrilla. So Pac would be an excellent individual to be able to talk to. So I was able to save his life when he was brought to Villagrande and brought him with us. And he was the one who gave us all the information on how he would move, who became very, very

important to us later on. He told us, for example, when Chem moved from point A to point B, he divided his guerrilla in three groups. But five or six guerrilla will go ahead of him, what they call the vanguard in front, one kilometer ahead. He will be in the middle with the strength of the troops, and then in the back, one kilometer behind, another five or six guerrilla. He gave us all the name, Zudo, they were using at the time. So later on, in late September of 1967, when there was an encounter of a lieutenant Galindo with the guerrilla, they got three guerrillas killed. So we went to meet him in Pukarat to receive the three bodies. And the name of these three bodies coincided with the vanguard of She.

One was Cocoa Paredo, leader on the Bolivian side. The other one was Mario Gutierrez-Sadari, a doctor, a Bolivian doctor. And the other one was Miguel, a Cuban captain, whose later we learned was Manuel Hernandez Osorio. This was member of the vanguard of Shea. Then when I talked to Lieutenant Galindo, he told me, my captain. I saw the guerrilla in the distance. I started preparing the ambush, and suddenly the guerrilla surprised me.

What he saw was She's good. group, the vanguard was coming up, so that confirmed that was She's group. So with this information, went to seek Colonel Centeno Nay and asked him to call the training of the battalion short, who was basically finished already, or the whole training, and bring it to operation. And because

we knew that She was in the area. And he did so. So on the last part of September, actually in the 1st of October, the battalion was deployed in the operational area, four companies. One staying in Villegrande to support them with communication, food, and ammunition. One company commanded by

Captain Lopez-Layton was along the Rio Grande, so they could not cross to the other side, once commanded by Celsotorrelli, a captain of another captain, who later became President of Bolivia, he was a reaction force, and Captain Garry Pratt was the one doing the search in the area. They actually started on the 1st of September, and on the 7th of September in the evening, they got information for farmers that there were these people in guerrillas in this area. So on the 8th, they surrounded the area, on the 8th, when they advanced it, that's when Che was there. and that was the firefighted took place and he was captured alive.

Were you there? I was at a, on the seventh I was in Vallegrante is setting up some PRC10 radius on Bolivian combat planes because they didn't have frequency compatible and they could not get air to ground support to the troops. So I borrowed three PRC10 radio starting installing, blowing every one of those aircraft.

So on the eighth, I had that radius already in place And then when they told us that Papa Canzado, who was the code that the leader of the guerrilla was captured alive, and we didn't know whether it was Shee or was Inti Peredo, a Coco's brother. I flew in the back of the back of the back of the other, and we were confirmed that Papa Canzad was the foreigner. So we knew that Shea was there. So that day, Colonel Centeno dispatched Lieutenant Colonel Selis to be able to gather all the documentation, trying to interrogate Shea. And we had a dinner at the hotel in Vallagrante, and I asked the coroner if I could accompany.

him. Everybody wanted to go with him. But I had an excellent relationship with all of them, so he agreed I accompanied him. And on the following day, that was the 9th of October, who was a Monday, we flew in a small helicopter, who was piloted by Hyman Inouye Wuzman, a Bolivia major, and we landed right next to a schoolhouse where he was. And there was all of these officers waiting for us in there. We came into the room. Che was on the floor, on the left side, under a little window in the back of the room was the dead body of two Cubans. Major Pantojo, Captain Pantoja and another Cuban officer, and he started asking questions to Che.

Che will look at the NSA award. He didn't answer, even nothing. To the point that the colonel said, look, you are a foreigner, you invaded my country, at least you can have the courtesy to answer me. He didn't say a word. So he came out, and then I asked him if I could get all the documentation from Colonel Selly to photograph for my government. So he gave me his bag, who had a German diary, a big book,

but of course written in Spanish, but he was bought in Germany, where he wrote his diary. He had some photographs of the family, some medicament for his asthma. He has some very small codebook, numerical codebook that he used to communicate, to be able to transmit and receive from Cuba. Of course, he could not transmit, but he could receive from Radovana, Cuba. It was given to him by the Chinese. He had some little booklet with typewritten message that he had received from Cuba,

was signed by Ariel that we thought was Fidel. And later on, Benigno, who was one who defected and lived in Paris, and we became friend, told me that it wasn't Fidel. It was Juan Carretero, the head of communication for Shed during that operation. So I got all of that, and I started photographing all of those documentation. Then I left it with a soldier. I came back to talk to him. So I stood in front of him and said, Che Guevara, I've been going to talk to you.

And he looked to me from the floor, very arrogant, and said, nobody talks to me. Nobody interrogates me. So when I saw that attitude, I looked at him and say, commander, I didn't come here to interrogate you. I admire you. You used to be head of a state. You are like this because you believe in your ideals, even though I know they are mistaken. I came here to talk to you.

So he looked to me for a while to see if I was laughing, if I was serious, and he said, can I sit? Can you untie me? So I asked a soldier to untie him, so we untie him, sat in a little bench across from where I was, and we started talking. Now, whenever I asked him a question that was of tactical interest to us, he would say, I cannot answer that. But I did push him in, for example, in his stay in Africa. He didn't want to talk about it.

I said, well, you don't want to talk about it, but your own people said you had like 10,000 guerrillas, and they were very poor soldiers. It was in the Congo. And he looked at me and said, well, if I had 10,000, it would have been different. But you're right. They were very poor soldiers.

Then we talk about the Cuban economy. And he started blaming the embargo for the Cuban economy. Okay, now hang on, because he was trained as a doctor, right? Yeah, he never graduated, but he was trained as a doctor. Okay, so Train is a doctor, and then he becomes a revolutionary where he's killing people. And then once the revolution is over in Cuba, didn't Fidel come to a group of people and said, hey, who knows anything about finance? And he raised his hand. It wasn't like that.

Wasn't like that. How did it happen? He told me. When he told me at that point in time, the Cuban economy was like that because of the embargo. Right. I look at and say, commander, it's ironic in your part to say that. because you were the minister of economy and you were also the president of the national bank

and you are not even an economist. So he looked at me and said, you know how I became president of the national bank? I said, I have no idea. He said, I was standing one time I understood Fidel was asking for a dedicated communist. I rose my hand, and he was asking for a dedicated economist. So I honestly, I honestly believe he was trying to pull my leg.

He didn't want to answer the question. But later on, when I met Benigno, Paris that we had an interview in Paris. He told me it was true. He was right next to Camilo Xen Fuego himself and she understood he was asking for a dedicated community and rose his hand. That's how he became the head of the National Bank. Didn't feel free. They didn't want to correct himself. Oh, unbelievable. Yeah. All right. So you're in you're talking to him. You're having conversations with this guy that took your country, killed, I'm sure, some of your friends, destroyed so much.

You know that the people who have him want him dead. How are you feeling at the time? Looking across the table at Jay, what does that feel like? Well, first of all, I had mixed feeling. When I arrived there, I say, well, he should die the same way that he killed so many people. But then when I saw him, it looks like a very normal of that. I felt sorry for him. At the same time, we were told in Washington they want to share a life no matter what.

And I believe now the reason was because they knew of the problems that he got with the Soviet Union. So that's probably why the agency wanted him alive. I even thought for it. For what reason, do you suppose? Because he was pro-Chinese. He didn't get along with the Soviet at all. And Cuba depended on the Soviet Union. Maybe he would have information.

Maybe they, I don't think he would have done it. But the agency felt that maybe he would talk to him about that because of that feeling. that situation. Wasn't he the guy who said we should use a nuke on New York City? And he said that it would be worse while millions of people to die if it was going to implement socialism in the United States. It said that at the United Nations. Wow.

And somebody here thought that, oh, maybe this guy will turn on. They forgot all of that. Yeah. Okay. All right. Okay. I even thought at the time, Glenn, that because they wanted him desperately alive, that I could cut the landline.

We had a telephone lying at that time in I get us. I could cut the landline. When the helicopter arrived, I would tell the pilot that my government was able to convince President Barriento to give him alive. And I know he had no communication with the, with the Villegrande. And once we brought his body alive, then nobody could do that. At the same time, I thought what happened in Cuba when Batista released Fidel Castro and what happened to my country.

So I talked to myself and said, look, if you do that and he survived, and later on he goes to other places, a lot of people kill, you will feel responsible for it. Let history wrong. This is the decision from the Bolivian government and not yours. Because they have him. They caught him. But they not only wanted to kill him.

Right. They wanted to behead him? No, let me go by a step. First of all, when we were there, Colonel Centeno was in the operational field. While he was there, we received a phone calling in Egeras. and they asked for the highest ranking officer. I had the rank of captain. There were only two lieutenant.

That's why I received the order from the Barreentes regime to kill him. There was 500, 600. 500 was dead. 700 kept him alive. So we received a specific instruction to eliminate him. When Centeno came back

before he left in the helicopter calling him aside and semi-coronel, this order from your government to eliminate the prisoner. Now, the order from my government has tried to keep him alive at all costs. And we have helicopters to be able to move.

moving out from here and up to Panama for interrogation. So he looked at me and said, Felix. My name was Felix Ramos. Say, Felix, we have worked empirically. We're very grateful to you. But this is order from my president and my commander-in-chief. If I don't comply, it be fire. He looked at his watch and he said, the helicopter is going,

after I leave, the helicopter is going to come several times, bringing foot of ammunition and taking our dead and our wounded. After 2 o'clock in the afternoon, he's going to come back to pick up the Che Guevara's dead body. You can execute him. Actually, say you can, I used to. to see him any way you want, because we know how much harm he have done to your country. But I want your word of honor that you would bring me back dead body of she after 2 o'clock.

Wow. So I say, me, coroner, try to me then change their mind, but if there is not changed, I will guarantee it will bring you back the dead body of shit. We embraced and he left. And sure enough, the helicopter came several times. At one point, the pilot came to where I was with the camera from Major Soussaint and told me, me Capitan, Mayor Soussad, I want a picture with the prisoner. So I look and she and say, commander, do you mind?

Say, no. That's when we took him around in the schoolhouse. And that's why I gave my camera to him and that the picture I gave you. And then I took his camera and I just put 2,000 speed and closed the lanes. The picture never came out. Because I thought if these people release him, they released the picture. And they're telling everybody that he died from combat wounds, it's going to be embarrassment to the Bolivian government.

So that picture never came out. So the helicopter left. And we start waiting to see what happened. Around 1230 in the afternoon, this lady came with a little radio on her hand. My Capitan, me Capitaine, when are you going to kill him? Say, lady, why do you say that? He said, look, we just saw you photograph with him right in front of the schoolhouse here. And look, the Redis is already giving the news that he died from combat wounds.

So at that point, I thought there was nothing else to wait for. So I walked into the room. I stood in front of him. It was sitting a little bench that we had put him. And I look at him and say, commander, I'm sorry. I try my best. He's ordered from the High Bolivian Command. Did he know what you were talking about?

He knew exactly what I was saying. He turned white like a piece of paper. I had never seen somebody to lose the expression like he did, but then he composed himself and said, it's better this way. I should have never been captured alive. And he pulled the pipe that he had on his side out and said, I like to give this pipe to a soldier, Adito,

who treated me well. And at that point in time, Sergeant Mario Terran, who was the one executing people burst into the room. I want the pipe. And she, he goes, no, Tino de la do you. So I have to order him twice to leave the room, which he did, and she had the pipe here. So I look at him and say,

Commander, will you give it to me? He thought for a few seconds, I said this he tell a boy. He gave me the pipe. I put it here. What did he say? Yes. What? He said yes.

And he said yes. He gave it to me. Okay. I put the pipe here and say, if I can't do you want anything for your family. Then actually what I will say in a sarcastic way is that if you can't tell Fidel that he will soon see a triumphant revolution in America. Which is to me, to me, you know, you abandon me, but this is going to be successful no matter what. And then he changed the expression and saying, if you can't tell my wife to remarry and try to be happy.

That was his last word. He approached me, we shook hand, we embraced, and he stood in attention thinking I was going to be the one to shoot him. And let me tell you, that was a very emotional situation for me, because as a soldier, as a military guy, we don't order the execution of a prisoner. But this was a very unique situation, which is pretty hard to take, to go out, and when I came out, I told the sergeant,

it's ordered from your high command to eliminate the prisoner. Don't shoot from here up, shoot from here down, because he's supposed to die from combat wounds. Capitaine, Simi Capitaine. He was exactly 1 o'clock in the afternoon, Bolivian time when I left. I went to the area where I was taking the photograph of the diary. At about 1.15, exactly, I heard the burst, and that's when he was killed. Did they not take his hands or? That came later on. Fair Grande. Okay. What? Well, after that, after a couple of hours, so then, what did they do with the, did you go back? Yeah, well, a couple of hours later,

Gary Prado and Celso Torrelli two captains came and we all went to see the dead body for the first time. He was on the floor facing the ceiling. His face was covered with mud. He was probably because he hit the ground and the ground was muddy. You know,

you had a lot of mud in there. And then we went around the body and Celso Torreli had a little stick and said, you son of a bitch, you have killed so many of my soldiers. And then Gary Prado's semi-capitan, we have finished the in Latin America. And I told him,

Capitan, we haven't finished them. At least we have delayed them for a long time. At least what? We have delayed them for a long time. Okay. Yes. So they left. So I asked for a bucket of water.

So they bought a little bucket of water. I went down. I cleaned his face. I took all the month out from his face. I tried to close his jaw with my handkerchief. It was later on blue with the helicopter air. And I tried to close his eye, which I could not.

It will pop up again. Why did you feel it was necessary to do that? No, it's something like... Common decency? Yeah. Good for you. You know, I have to do that. Good for you.

And then they brought the stretcher. We put the body in the stretcher. We put it to the right side of the helicopter. I remember we were tying it. And then the major, Niena-Rouzman, told me, my Capitan moving forward, you know, to balance the helicopter. So I put my hand under his body, and I pull up. When I got the hand, I was completely covered with blood.

Apparently, they hit the aorta, and because it was a plastic, treasure, the blood concentrated there. I remember, I didn't say a war, but I remember thinking, say, there are people who have blood in their hand. I have the hell of a lot of. I cleaned the hand on the right side of my pant, finished tying him down, jumping to the helicopter a little bit with left side to balance. And then a

soldier came and said, me, my own, major, Father Chilers went to see it. It was a Catholic priest. So we waited like two, three minutes with the engine run, and here come this priest on top of a mule, all around, close on the right side. I almost got decapitated by the helicopter. with this close from the blade. He came down from the muo.

He looked at him and gave him the last bench, which I took a couple of pictures with a Minox camera that I had left when he was giving the... That's right. And I thought to myself, this guy was an atheist, nevertheless he received the last ritual

from the Catholic Church. And from there, we took off, we landed in Valle Grande. When I left, there was nobody there. It was 2,000 people on the wrong way. They were like 15 additional plane. Four additional C-54 military plane with all, you know, the generals

and Admiral everybody was there and depressed. There was like 15 a small plane from different CBS, NBC, whatever, in the area. So my friend who had arrived took the bat and they took it to the hospital, Mestr de Malt, and I stayed with the pilot and the head of intelligence. That evening we had a meeting in the headquarters in that area. When I arrived, a general was telling this colonel, if Fidel denied this is Che Guevara, we need tangible proof of it, caught his head and put him from Aliye.

Oh my God. I say, my general, you cannot do that. I said, why not? Supposedly Fidel denied this is Che Guevara. You are a head of a state. You cannot show the head of a human being as proof. Say, well, what do you suggest? Said, my general, you want some tangible proof of it, cut one finger.

We have the fingerprint from the Argentine and federal police, and they can be checked. So he ordered both hands to be cut. Both hands to be cut. So I left there because I had to take all of the documentation back to Santa Cruz and from there to La Paz. And my friend stayed, and he claimed that. about three or four o'clock in the morning when there was no press around, the doctor came and they caught both's hand

and put him from Alehi. And then in a pickup that they called Volketa, they drove the body of Shea and two more. There were three bodies altogether to the very end of the wrong way. And that's where they had a bulldozer who were expanding the wrong way for bigger planes to land.

They dug a huge hole in the very middle of the wrong way and they dropped Shea and two bodies there. And they caught out. Now, when Fidel claimed that he found Che Guevara's body on the side of the wrong way, There were seven other bodies next wing. I don't know who the hell he got out of there. He wasn't Cheap, believe me.

So he kind of was buried like Jimmy Hoffa. But his hand turned out in Cuba because the minister of interior, Argetas, took the hands to Fidel. So at least if they put that in his burial place, he would have a part of Shane there because the hands were turned over to Cuba. But the body, that was not Che Guevada's. Okay.

So that's 67, 68? 67. 67. October 9th, 1967. Right. And then you volunteered to go to Vietnam. No, after that, they sent me, first of all, for a short time to Ecuador, which I trained in telling you equal to their secret service. So we trained them.

And then I was sent to Peru to an anti-guerilla unit in Peru, where my leader training for the October crash took place. because I arrived in Peru, in Masamari, the CIA was training this special police unit, a separator unit. The special force already has trained them. So when I arrived the first weekend, the commander of the police unit, Daniel Ogramonte said, Mr. Advisor, are you a paratrooper? And I'm embarrassed mine.

He said, yes, sir, I am your advisor. He said, how many jump? I said, 100. I never jumped from a plane in my life. So I went to see a friend of mine, Javier DeVincenzi, was a captain, and I said, look, how you put the thing on? You look at me and say, you have never jumped.

I said, no. I said, you're nuts. You're going to get killed. I said, bullshit. You know, I got the training already. So let's go to my room and let's jump from a table, my three point of contact. Right. And that's what I did.

And then I jumped with them like 13 times. Wow. And I got my wing from the Peruvian police. But then I was supposed to be there two years. Then the military coup of Velascolle Barado took place in late 1968. And with that, we were surrounded by the, the army because the police unit was not in agreement with the coup. As a matter of fact, the commander wanted to ask a plane for training,

and he was going to jump the police into the presidential palace to regain the presidency to President Belawunda Terry, who was the constitutional president of Peru. And he asked me, Mr. Avaiso, will you join with us? I look at him and say, this is a training exercise, right? The guy said, right, say, of course I go with you. But, of course, then the army never sent the airplane for us to train. and then when we rotated for Christmas

because Velasco Barat turned to the Soviet Union all the military assistance was terminated and that's why I volunteer for Vietnam I went there in early 1970 then in 76 were you still with the CIA when you're in Vietnam? Yes I was with the advisor to the PRU Provincial Reconnaissance Unit in Vietnam

which meant what? What did you do? It was a special paramilitary unit that we had in every single province all over Vietnam. I was assigned to Region 3. Region 3 is the 11 provinces around Saigon, the most important region. And we had every one of those units were former Viet Cong and Shuhoy, people who had turned out from the Viet Cong area. And they were very effective against the Viet Cong because they knew them.

They knew the tactics and everything. So we advised them, we provided them with intelligence and we run operation with asset from the U.S. armed forces against the infrastructure of the Viet Cong in the area. During that time, it was shot down five times. But, you know, I can well find. Eventually, it had to be evacuated because of back problem because of this helicopter accident.

You were shot five times, did I hear you say? Yeah. During, it was during over two years. I spent a whole tour a year and a half, and they extended for another year and a half. But then because of my back problem, they evacuated me back to the United States in April of 1962. 70, 72.

And 75 or 76 years? you leave the CIA. Right, 76. I left the CIA. And that's because there was a death threat. Yes. First of all, for example, while I was still there in Vietnam, from 1970 to 71, I was called by the Giova Station, told me not to fly directly to Miami because they had a Cuban intelligence defectory in Paris who claimed they were going to hijack the plane of the

Cuban involved in the assassination of Che Guevara. So I flew to Atlanta. Even though Cuba wanted him dead. Yes, but today is a symbol. Right. To be able to get somebody who claimed that their hero was killed. So I did fly to Atlanta, took a car, went back to Atlanta, and they have a cousin in Atlanta. So I stayed, there was a flight going back to Vietnam who left, actually Dallas, Dallas, San Francisco.

And there was another one who was Houston, Houston, San Francisco an hour later. So I took the one hour later to stay with my cousin one more hour. When I arrived to Saigon, nobody was waiting for me. So I went to do hotel change. I got to the U.S. Embassy, and they looked at me and said, what are you doing here? I supposed to arrive today and nobody was waiting for me. I said, no, no, no.

Your plane was hijacked to Cuba. The one we had in the program that you were going to fly from there to San Francisco. So even after when I was evacuated, later on, they sent me to Argentina. What the agency did, they gave me a passport for me and my wife that said that we were born in Colorado. That's the only time I was a born United States citizen for less than a year. Because in case our plane got hijacked, they could reclaim me as. say U.S. citizen by birth. And they offered to change your name and change your life,

and you were like, nah. Yeah, in 75, they assassinated Centeno, Anaya, the one was his advisor in Paris, and they put the so-called command of Che Guevara. They assassinated a Colonel Roberto Quintanagan, in Hamburg, Germany, who was the consul general for Bolivians, leave the same message, Che Guevara's command. And then they called my home,

and using my earliest name, Felix Ramos, you are next. That was what they told me. So I told the agency. So they came back and said, look, we are going to change your name. We're going to send you to another state. But, you know, with two kids at the age that they were, it was a trauma for them to be able to move them from their school, their friends to another, unknowing place was a different name.

So I told the agency I couldn't do that. So we got to an agreement. What they did was they built a garage in my home next to my car, was to stay inside the garage at night. I got a license to carry concealed weapon who was very difficult at the time to get. They put iron fences in my house all around the area. You know, they gave me a telephone in the car.

At the time, it was 10 years of waiting period. Oh, yeah, yeah. And actually, when I applied for the phone, they told me in 10 years. I told the agency. And when I called back, the guy said, Mr. Rodriguez, I don't know who the hell you are. Your phone number is so and so will be connected to the after tomorrow.

I got in 30 hours my phone. Wow. I signed a relief. If I got killed connected to service, my family will not claim anything because I refuse what they really consider a security package for me. But they did give you another thing at the time.

They gave you a silver star. When I came from that, they gave me the Intelligent Star for Valor, which is for what they call extraordinary service of heroism from Vietnam. That's amazing. like nine cross of gallantry from the Vietnamese army and also a naval metal of honor from the Vietnamese Navy because I have stopped the rocketing of

the boat of Saigon and I started the rocketing of the city of Saigon too that was very very difficult nobody had been able to do that before how did you do that well the one on the boat was you know they were having a unit shooting at the boat whenever they came in and all those boats coming in were escorted by the Navy Sea wolf gunship whenever they saw the explosion they never got anything I was able to capture one of this paramilitary unit of the Vietan that they called Sappers. And when they had, they put the rocket

in a wooden platform and then they run an electrical cable about 50 meters. And they had a point of reference. So whenever they had the point of reference, they, from a 50 meter distance, they activated the rocket, who hit the boat. Now, the gunship was hitting the explosion. Nobody was there. So I got on the following day, all the guy

from the Navy gun ship, and put a red smoker in the middle, a yellow 50 meter on both sides, so they can see, take a look at the distance. And from there on, every time the soil explosion, they would hit on both sides. We never know what they were operating. And they were able to kill like six teams, and they had no idea what's going on.

We started the rocketing of the boat. Wow. So got the Medal of Honor from the Vietnamese Navy. And then the rocketing of the city of Saigon, we couldn't find the people in the unit we were looking for until we captured one guy who told us where they were actually had the base camp. We never looked in that area because it's a very high, tight, water of tight. It will go like 15 feet, and nobody could leave there.

So we never looked for them in that area. So this guy told us they had 55-colon drums, sold their one top of the other. So at night, when the water started racing, he will go on top of that drum and leave there. When he went down, he walked through the rocket, 122 rocket, into the area of Saigon City, and then went back into that hole. So we started looking to that area. And then it was very easy because they were walking, and it was fresh mud, so we could see the step. We were able to eliminate most of them.

And in the 4th of December of 1970, we were able to kill Tutank, the head of the unit, that was doing the rocketing of Saigon. And then after that, they were not able to hit one single rock into the city until after I left. So from 1960, 61 to 76, did you ever see or feel at any time that the United States was being dishonorable? No. As a matter of fact, when you talk about the Bay of Pigs, there are some Cuban, especially from the brigade who claimed President Kennedy was a traitor. I don't believe he was a traitor. I believe he was a young president because you're a traitor because you do something purposely.

I don't say he purposely wanted the Bay of Pick to be a failure because it was a failure to his administration. I think it was a young president with no experience and very, very badly advice. And because of my experience with our teammate after we went to, because when the president received us at the Orange Bowl in late 1962, after he pulled the brigade out, he promised us to give us to return our flag very soon in Free Havana. I actually was able to shook the president in hand because he came to say hello to the survivor of the infiltration thing. So I remember shooking the president's hand and told him, we shall return. Of course, you know, that was a symbolic thing. Yeah.

And then he opened the armed forces of the United States for the brigade. So I was one of the 212 officers from the brigade who went to Fort Benin, Georgia, as a second lieutenant, commissioned by the president. When we finished that, our teammate asked me to go with him to a special operation in Central America, sponsored by the president. Okay, and I ask him at the time, say, look, Manolo, you know, what guarantee do I have that the presence behind this operation? He asked me, what guaranteed the unit? Say, well, you want me to leave the army and go into this motel to get a training from the CIA on communications? Give it to me in uniform being paid by the U.S. government. You do that, I'll resign, I'll go with you.

So he told me, fine, go and see your supervisor and tell him you want a special communication training. So I go and see this Major Angel Torres, who was the Puerto Rican in charge of training, and say, Mayor Torres, Lieutenant Rodriguez, I like to change to a special communication training. It was supposed to go for intelligence training. So he looked at me and said, look, Lieutenant, first of all, there is no such thing as special communication training. Second, if it were, there is no time to change. You're going to Fort Hollow in Virginia for intelligence training.

And third, who told you? Say, sir, I cannot tell you. He threw me out of his office, which is normal. So I go to Miami on vacation, and about a week later, I got a call from Aurora Street, the recruiting certain. Call immediately Major Torres. So I called Major Torres, say, Lieutenant Rodriguez, come to forbidding immediately.

we have here Mr. Musa, Mr. Flanagan, to give you your special communication training. So I went back to Fort Benning. They got us a room inside the base. I was two other guys that was with me. They gave us the training, and then we resigned to the commission, and we went into Central America.

But then the president was assassinated. And later on, Johnson told the member of the brigade that the promise of the president to liberate Q and die with the president. Those who wanted to stay in the armed forces, they were welcome. But there was no longer a commitment to do that. But Bobby Kennedy was very, very much committed on that.

Bobby Kennedy was different than his brother. He seemed like a decent guy. When we were walking the operation in Central America with our team in Costa Rica and Nicaragua running raids against Cuba in 64, 65, Bobby Kennedy was where liaison between us and the CIA for that operation. And when the president was assassinated,

Artime went to see him in Washington. And the first two war that he told him, said, my brother had two big enemies, the mafia and Fidel Castro. And I believe it was the last one who assassinated him. And what do you think? I think so. I think that the president had...

So you don't think that it was Lee Harvey Oswald? It was Lee Harvey. I was with another shooter who probably was a Cuban captain who was an expert in shooting, also spoke fluent English, Fabian Scalante, who was in Dallas that day. And then it's documented that he left in a private plane for Mexico after the assassination.

Of course, even I saw one, time in the paper, one assistant of President Johnson claiming that did have information from the Bureau of the Cuban participation on the assassination of the president. And they had to cover a row for national security reason. If they had to admit that a country like Cuba had

participated in the assassination of an American president, they had no choice about to invade. And they still had some offensive missile inside Cuba. They didn't want to face that. So they covered that for national security. So I believe that Fabianzcalante was the second shooter. Wow. I mean, you are at event after event after event.

You leave 76. Then in 85, you come back and you are part of something that becomes a gigantic deal. The Contra scandal. You were down in El Salvador. Well, actually, when I started that, it had nothing to do with the Contra. I had a helicopter concert that I developed in Vietnam against the garage. who was very effective in Vietnam. And I thought I could do that with the guerrillas in El Salvador.

So I turned to my friend Don Gregg, who was my boss in Vietnam, who turned out to be then the National Security Advisor to Vice President Bush, and he knew how affected this concept of being in Vietnam. So he helped me with the administration to get contact, for example. He sent me to talk to Thomas Molley, the Secretary of State for Latin America, Nestor Sanchez, Secretary of Defense for Latin America, to brief them on concept I wanted to develop in El Salvador. to develop in El Salvador.

And then I met the head of the Salvadorian Air Force. And I offered my service to, you know, to go there and try to implement this concept. Of course, the general told me and said, fine, he saw my credential every thing. There's a problem. I said, what's the problem? He said, I cannot pay you. And said, who's asking for pay? I have my retirement for the agency.

The only thing that I need is a plate where I can operate from to implement my concept. So he accepted. Now, then there was a problem with General Gorman, three or four-star General of Southcom, who was in charge of all this military assistant in Latin America. is this guy retired from the CIA who wants to implement a military concept in his area. Of course, he is of concern. But erroneously, he had been told I was very close to Bush.

I was not. I was close to Don Gregg. So he asked Admiral, who was in charge of advisor to Vice President Bush, that he wanted to talk to me. So I went to Panama, briefed General Gorman, and then he sent me to El Salvador to brief Ambassador Pickering, and then we all agree for me to go down there. So I'm moving to El Salvador to start preparing my helicopter concept and in the first day of my operation,

which I actually programmed for the 17th of April, this date of the Bay of Pigs. But then when the Salvadorian saw the intelligence that was good, they put me back to the 18th of April. On that day, they sent some troops in the ground to the area that I had selected. So when we arrived, there was nobody there. But in the afternoon, we went to another area, and we were lucky that we were able to capture Nidia Diaz,

the commander of the PRTC. she was the highest guerrilla commander ever being captured by the Salvadorian and she was the one who was responsible for the assassination of the Marines at the Sona Roses in El Salvador. The PRTC was her unit. Partido Revolutionario Los Travajadores Central American.

So we captured her and she was then exchanged for President Duarte's daughter who was kidnapped and she went to leave in Cuba. Then she went back to El Salvador now and she's a congresswoman in El Salvador to this day. From there on the operation was very very very, very effective.

You met Ali North at this time, right? Yeah, I have met him one time, sent by a guy from the State Department to meet him in Washington. But I had nothing to do with him at all. But then what happened was, Glenn, at the end of 1986, and the end of 1985,

he had a problem with some weapon that he had bought in Portugal for the Honduras. And Honduras had stopped all the operation in there because Calero's brother, who was the head of the country, at the time brought a plane from New Orleans with uniform and things like that

and he got a crew of television on the plane and they land in Palmyrola a military airfield. So when the Honduran saw that they were mad because, you know, everybody knew they were helping but not that open to have a plane land at their military base and have the crew film everything. So they send the plane back with everything

including the crew and they stopped the operation and North had a plane Southern Airplane in Portugal loaded with weapon. He could not bring it. It was costing a lot of money. So he knew I had been very successful in the Salvador with the Operation I was. So he asked me if I could ask the Salvadorian to storage all of these military weapon coming from Portugal. So I went to see the head of the Air Force. He sent me to talk to the Minister of Defense. I convinced them and they allowed to do that. That's how I got involved

later on with the Iran-Contrathing. They used the, brought the plane to our area. They storage there. Then they asked me they could do the maintenance of the aircraft in El Salvador, and they will provide everything. So, you know, they agree, and that's how I got involved. in the Rand Contra thing. But Senator Kennedy, or Kerry. Oh, don't talk to me about it. I hate that son of a bit. I'll tell you what you really feel. Okay.

Because of that, I had to testify in Congress. They called me as a witness to testify in Congress. I testify on the 27, 28th of May, 1987, in Congress. During that time, there was one actually Republican Senator who asked me if I had any information about the Sandinistas involved in narcot trafficking. In early 1985, a police officer friend of mine who was in DECON, police, who had a private company, then asked me to meet this guy, who was a money laundering for the Medellin cartel, who claimed that he could compromise the Nicaraguan resistance in narco trafficking.

But he said he wanted to deal with the DEA or the FBI because they were penetrated. He wanted to deal with somebody from the CIA or from the vice president office who had to do with armed narcot trafficking. So I met this guy whose name was Ramon, Miliand Rodriguez. He claimed he had a tape from an assistant of Daniel Ortega who called him from Guatemala, asking him to jump bail to set up a money laundering operation for them out of Panama. So I mentioned that during the hearing. Kerry, who heard that, sent his assistant, Jack Blom, to find out where this guy was.

Now, Ramon Miliang Rodriguez this time was in a federal prison with 45 years because of his narco-trafficking thing. Because he was picked up in Miami with $10 million of the drug cartel to fly to Panama. So they went to see him. And why I understand, they told the guy, if you can compromise the vice president through Felix, it has to be true. You cannot lie to us. But if you can compromise the vice president through Felix, we are going to lower your sentence. So the guy come back and say, oh, yeah, Philip was a patriot. He didn't touch a penny of this thing, but he got from us $10 million from the cartel for the contrast. And in exchange, the vice president was going to be lenient with the Medellin cartel, which is ridiculous.

So after I justifying Congress, I am back in El Salvador, and I am flying with the Salvadorian. force and my wife called me pre-obset. It was my picture in front page of the Miami Herald. When I was in the Army, I was the second lieutenant, I claimed I received $10 million from the Medellian cartel. I said, Ross, you know, that's BS. They said, no, no, no, no. You also have a subpoena from Senator Kerry's committee. So I asked her to send this subpoena to El Salvador. I got the subpoena. I called his office. I didn't talk to him. Of course, I talked to an assistant and said, look, you don't need a subpoena with me, but send the ticket in Easter because I'm doing mileage. I'll go there and I'll talk to you. So they

sent the ticketing issue. I flew to Washington. He was the majority of this committee in narcotrafficking and special operation. And the minority was Mitch McConnell. So there was an assistant Mitch McConnell, a Jack Blum, on behalf of Senator Curry. They deposed me for over four hours. At the end of our testimony, we wanted an open hearing. There's nothing to hide. They wanted a close hearing. Right. He said, why? I retired back in 19706. We're talking something that happened in 1985. What is this secrecy? No, he didn't want the truth to come out. So they insisted on a close hearing. So it had to be a close hearing. So we went to a close hearing. And I recall there were all the senator and they asked me if I wanted to say something. So I look at

carrying his faith and say, Senator, this would be the hardest testimony of my life. I already had testifying Congress today without a lawyer without immunity. And I said, why do you say that, Mr. Rodriguez? I say, Senator, it's very difficult to have to answer questions for somebody that you do not respect. I don't respect you and what you are doing here. Boy, he blew his top. Oh, I bet he did. Not because we disagree with you. We are less patriotic than you are. I said, Senator, you didn't even have the courage to throw your own medals when you were

protesting the Vietnam world. Mr. Rodriguez, don't believe you see everything in the press. I said, Senator, I know that the hell of a lot of better than you do. Then he told me, that was a veteran who asked me to throw his metal. I said, bullshit. Everybody's perception why was your murder were throwing over the White House things. So we went back and forth. He didn't go very nicely. We finished the hearing, close hearing.

For 10 months, my uncle asked for an open hearing. He would not give it to us. until Senator Mitch McConnell called me and asked me if I would go to Washington and ask on a press conference in an open hearing. So I did. I went to Washington. We had a hearing, not a hearing.

We had a press conference at the Senate. And there I had a statement where I explained every detail of my connection with Ramon-Millian-Rosriga, everything that transpire. And at the end, I wrote, I hope this is for honest purposes and not for the political reason of Senator Kerry. So on the following day,

he gave us an open hearing. on Friday, that's the only day of the week they don't have any cameras in the Senate. Yeah, it was no camera. I was the last week, that was being by the time I went to testify, 90% of the press was already gone. And there he apologized to me.

Oh, then he asked me, will you take a light detector test? I said, of course, I want you to give you one, too, because this is political. I said, well, I won't take one. I won't take one. I won't take one either. But if you take a light detector test,

I'll take it. So he didn't, so I didn't. So that was the end of that. Then he asked for, which is great, he asked for one of the best polygraph operator in the country, Dr. Raffkin from the University of Utah. They gave Ramon-Millian-Rodrigal like detector threats. First question, did Mr. Rodriguez solicited for you $10 million from the drug cartel? Yes, deceptive, he was lying.

Second question, the Mr. Rodriguez gave you carriers in Central America to channelize this $10 million. Yes, deceptive he was lying. Third question, did Mr. Rodriguez receive in any way or form any money from the Medellin cartel? Ramon and Leon Rodriguez refused to continue with the light detector test. How is Santa Clara writing the congressional testimony? First, two, he had no choice. On the third, he write.

On the third question, whether Mr. Rodriguez received any money from the medial cartel, the operator could not determine the veracity of the question, and he leave it like that. So you listen to that, say, well, maybe some truth to it, but they never tell you that he didn't determine anything because the guy refused to continue with the light detector test. That's what I hate this.

It would be so much. So let me just ask one 60 minutes question. So what did you do with the $10 million? That's what my wife has asked me. Why are we still living here, Felix? If you have $10 million, I wouldn't over here now. That's right. That's right.

When the Berlin wall fell, what went through your mind? A lot of our thought that Cuba was going to be next. Really. And then because of special circumstances, they didn't. The Cuban intelligence has maintained a tremendous force in control in the island. They went to a special period. And then Venezuela came to supply the money that was cut off by the Soviet Union. Did you foresee this resurgence of socialism like is happening now?

I mean, the Venezuelans, that was a prosperous country. It had its problems, but it was a prosperous country. And they have just destroyed it, just destroyed it. And people are starving. Absolutely. Let me tell you, that was a factor in the election in Costa Rica a few years ago. The leftist candidate who was in front of the polls, ahead of the traditional candidate in Costa Rica,

who was a sympathizer of Hugo Chavez. What the opposition did, they just started putting movies of Venezuela. Here's Venezuela before socialism. Here's Venezuela with socialism. That guy didn't even go to his second round. Wow. We lost completely.

How do you feel about, I don't want to talk about politics per se, but none of the, or maybe there's one, of the Democratic campaign, candidates. They won't say that they're free market based. Many of them are saying that they're democratic socialists. It's amazing. I don't know how anybody can believe in socialism. As to what happening in Cuba and what's happening in Venezuela. Like you say, the richest country in Latin America.

Cuba in 1950A was one of the most praterous nation in the continent. They were the number two or three in the whole hemisphere. I would tell people that come back from Cuba that they would not believe. that during that time, people would look at the newspaper to find out where the meat was cheaper. No, that was mean. That was cheaper. They cannot understand that to be true because of the lack of everything in those countries. Socialism destroy the insensitive

of people to work and destroy the economy. Nobody could have perceived the Venezuela with all the resources, the richest oil in the country in Latin America with the richest largest reserving oil nationwide, worldwide, could be the way today. When they destroy the private sector, they destroy the capacity of people to really progress. And it's amazing. Are you optimistic for America or pessimistic?

I'm optimistic in a way. I worry a little bit about what's going on, you know, like Bernie Sanders and all of it. And I cannot believe these young people are supporting. He's declared socialist and liberal socialism went on. They should understand from history what happened to the socialist country. They have never worked. It destroyed the economy. What they do equal is bring poverty to everybody. It's what they do.

That's the only quality that they bring. And it's amazing that there were people that will support guys like him. But I understand also there's a lot of American university who have a very leftist professor. And they have been watching those people for years and years and years. And that's why they really believe that socialism can work. when in reality we all know it doesn't work. They'll point to Sweden and say that's a socialized country. They'll point to Sweden or, you know, the Netherlands and say,

well, this is a socialist. Yeah, but we are not Sweden. We are American. That's a difference. What's the difference? The mentality, the people that we were formed here from different countries, the way we operate, the freedom that we have in here, the opportunity that we have people to progress in this country,

and you don't see anywhere else in the world. It all depends on you. What I'll tell people is people should have the opportunity to progress. It should have the opportunity for a school and all of that thing. But they can depend on you. You cannot expect everybody. Like put an example of two brothers, one that work like hell from people in the morning,

28 o'clock at 9, the other ones don't do anything. You cannot expect both of them to have the same thing at the end of the month. because one have earned it, the other one has not. Opportunity you should have, but then it depends on you as an individual. You've lived in exile your whole life, almost your whole life. Do you feel like you're an exile, or do you feel now just all-American? For many years, I always wanted, and we all respect this country very much. It gave us what we didn't have down there.

We love America. But for many years, I thought, you know, I wanted to go back to Cuba to leaving there. Eventually, when that changed. After so many years, my son and my daughter were born here. We have a granddaughter going to the university. We have a grandson. And now all my, you know, I would just visit there. And I consider America more my home than really, in reality.

Tell me what you think is going to happen to Cuba. It hard to say right now. With the pass away of Fidel and now the probability of passing away of Raul, they will have to face a reality. I don't think they will be able to maintain what they have today. It could evolve. I mean, nobody knows what it's going to be a long time or a short time. It could change drastically, drastically.

Especially now if it looks like in a way Venezuela goes down from communism into a democracy, and if it does, it will stop the barrel of oil that they are giving Cuba for free. okay and they won't be able to maintain that at all they will they will be forced to go to have changes and hopefully then we could start working on a democracy as we know it Felix thank you you have been a real pleasure of being with you here is remarkable to meet a man that has been at the center of so much of American history thank you sir thank you just a reminder I'd love you to rate and subscribe to the podcast and pass this on to a friend so it can be discovered by other people.