The Happiness Lab with Dr. Laurie Santos - Grover’s Super Solution to Self-Talk

Episode Date: October 2, 2023

It's not always easy being a podcast host. Dr Laurie is stressed, making mistakes and blaming herself. When things go wrong, we're often our own harshest critics. So how can we tame this type of unkind self-talk? Luckily for Dr Laurie, Super Grover comes to the rescue - with tips on how she can talk to herself in kind and compassionate ways that will help her manage her feelings, perform better, and feel happier. (Sesame Workshop is a non-profit organization with a mission to help kids grow smarter, stronger, and kinder. The work they do is funded by donations big and small - so if you want to become a part of their important work to improve children’s emotional well-being, then visit: sesameworkshop.org/support-us/)See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Pushkin. This episode is brought to you by the letter S, because today we're talking about... Ooh, let me guess. Sandwiches? Somersaults. Sea urchins? Safety vests? Grover? Hey, Grover? Snails! Submarines! Sunflowers! Self-talk. S is for self-talk. And that's what we're talking about on today's podcast. Oh, self-talk. Yes, yes, of course. That was the next thing I was going to say. Self-talk is a powerful way to coach ourselves through stressful situations. And it works for people of all ages, whether you're an adult, a kid, a furry blue monster.

Do not forget cute. Or a podcast host like me, who just happens to be having a pretty bad day. Our minds are constantly telling us what to do to be happy. But what if our minds are wrong? What if our minds are lying to us, leading us away from what will really make us happy? The good news is that understanding the science of the mind can point us all back in the right direction. You're listening to The Happiness Lab with me, Dr. Laurie Santos, and one of my new friends from Sesame Street, Grover. Listen up, everybody! Hello, everybody!

Grover, I am so glad you're here today because I could really use a lift. Oh, well, I am fantastic at lifting. Weights, furniture, you name it, I can lift it. It's not exactly the lifting I was talking about. See, I'm feeling kind of overwhelmed today. There's so much to do at work and at home and on this podcast. It's a lot for just one me. You know what? I hear you, Dr. Lori.

I have got a lot on my plate, too, and I am just one Grover. I work three to four jobs a day, you know. Sometimes I am a dog walker, other times a waiter or a delivery monster. Once, I was even an engineer. You were? What did you build? Oh, a very impressive tower. 24 stories tall! 24 stories? That is really tall. Yes. It was built with the finest books the library had to offer.

Starting with the three little pigs at the bottom and ending way up at the top with my favorite story, Little Red Riding Hood. Wow, you can really do it all. Hey, have you ever run a podcast? Because I could use the help. Run a podcast? Say no more. I, your cute and helpful friend Grover, will do that running for you. I will run around your podcast studio faster than you can say, see you later. See you later? Wait, Grover, come back. Maybe I

should have been a little clearer. I am so not on my game today. Well, since Grover is getting his steps in, I think now's a good time to welcome someone who might be able to give me some perspective on how I can better manage my tough morning. We cannot show up as our best selves when we're stressed. This is Sesame Workshop's Akimi Gibson. We are currently not very good at giving ourselves enough rest or sleep. We are currently not very good at feeding our bodies what they truly need. We are currently not very good at just saying no. As vice president and educational publisher at the workshop,

Akimi thinks a lot about the impact that stress, self-criticism, and big feelings have on our ability to perform at work, parent effectively, or do things like learn. Learning cannot take place when you're so emotionally dysregulated. Akimi also knows the impact that stress and self-criticism has had in her own life. As a frazzled single mother, Akimi had many parenting moments that tested her endurance. Every parent understands stop and shop aisle four, right? Akimi recalls one particularly awful trip to the grocery store with her grandmother and her 18-month-old son.

By the time we hit aisle four, total meltdown. Total, flat-out meltdown. Akimi was sorry her toddler was in such distress, but she was annoyed with her son too. His tantrum did not impress Akimi's grandma, who suggested walking away and leaving the crying child to teach him a lesson in good manners. It's inappropriate to have a meltdown and stop and shut. She was highly embarrassed. Akimi was torn. I do recall feeling these flaming eyes on me, judging what I was about to do. And I had a decision. Do I please, which was my normal posture with her, do I please my grandmother and listen, or do I reject? Akimi's head was swirling with a stream of self-criticism.

She was embarrassed by her grandmother's disappointment, but she also didn't want to follow such harsh advice. So she just stood there. And watched my child on the floor as others are walking around moving their cards because they don't want to hit the little one. Akimi now knows what she should have done during that aisle four moment. I needed to catch my breath. I needed to slow down my heartbeat because otherwise I will be sending him the same signals that he was feeling and I needed to send him a different signal. In her role at Sesame Workshop, Akimi now wants to teach people the tools they need to give themselves grace in tough moments like these. They have to imagine

themselves in a different way. That's hard, Lori. It's work. We have to exercise a new kind of emotional muscle in order to get there. But what are these emotional muscles that anyone, young or old, can exercise to deal with these stressful situations? To figure that out, I decided to tag in an expert on the science of emotion management, Ethan Cross. I find it remarkable when you think about the kinds of things we teach kids. We teach them about mathematics and social studies. We teach them about physical fitness. I mean, my kids in elementary school started taking gym classes, but we don't teach them about emotions. As a professor of psychology and management at the University of Michigan,

Ethan studies effective strategies for emotion regulation, the processes we can all use to manage tough feelings, like the feeling of overwhelm that I was going through this morning. We have occasion to regulate our emotions each and every day. And we also know from lots of really elegant longitudinal research that people who are more adept at managing their emotions effectively, they do better across all walks of life. They think and perform more effectively. They have better social relationships. Their physical and mental health is better. So why aren't we taking seriously this idea of teaching kids explicitly about what science has to tell us about how to manage our emotions effectively?

But Ethan has taken this idea seriously. So what we really want to do is try to find ways to make emotion regulation really, really easy. And Ethan's favorite really, really easy strategy is the S in our letter of the day. And that S is for self-talk. So self-talk, as the name implies, involves using language to reflect on your life. Self-talk is something that you probably engage in all the time, but haven't thought about all that much. If you've ever given yourself a pep talk, run through a big speech you were preparing to give, repeated a phone number in your mind, or even just criticized yourself, congratulations, you've engaged in self-talk. Self-talk, at its simplest level, is just talking to ourselves inside our heads.

And that allows us to do many, many different things. It allows us to keep information active in our heads for short periods of time. So if you go to the grocery store and you forget what to buy, and then you think to yourself, what was I supposed to get? And then you repeat the list in your head,

that's self-talk. We also use self-talk to motivate ourselves and control ourselves. When I'm exercising in the gym, I am talking nonstop in my head. Come on, man, you've got this. Three more sets. And then finally, we use self-talk to make sense of our experiences in the world. And I often think about this as the most magical quality of self-talk. So self-talk is helping you really shape your sense of self. But unfortunately, there's also a dark side to self-talk. It's what Ethan calls chatter. That's the harsh, self-critical voice I was using to beat myself up when I was talking to Grover

earlier. The inner critic that is chirping up to say, you're not good at this, or the depressogenic kinds of self-talk that we engage in that make us feel sadder. When we get caught in those negative verbal thought loops, it impairs our ability to think and perform. It creates friction in our relationships with other people, and it undermines our physical and emotional health.

If you're prone to chatter, this nastier version of self-talk, you know, it doesn't feel nice. You may even wish you could totally silence that inner voice forever. But that's not what Ethan recommends. You don't want to silence it. You just want to harness it. And I think the opportunity for parents, for kids, for human beings is to understand how this tool works so you can use it effectively. And one of the best ways to talk to ourselves is to understand how this tool works so you can use it effectively. And one of the best ways to talk to ourselves is to use what Ethan calls distanced self-talk. And what it involves doing is using your own name and or the second person pronoun you to coach yourself through a problem. We often talk to ourselves using I or me, as in, what's wrong with me?

I need to get it together. I'm off my game. But distance self-talk is different. It involves talking to yourself in the second or third person. Like, Laurie, how are you going to get through this? Or, Laurie, you got this. If you think about when we use names and words like you, we use them virtually exclusively when we're thinking about and referring to other people. So when you use those parts of speech to refer to yourself, it's switching your perspective and it's doing it really, really quickly. Using the words we'd normally use to talk to other people gives our self-talk a bit of psychological distance. We feel like we're getting advice from some wise

outside observer, and that can help us tackle challenges with a bit more perspective than we'd otherwise have. And it really is about using language to step back and reflect on yourself from a more objective standpoint. And Ethan's found that having such objectivity can be super helpful. His research shows that using second or third person language helps people to cope more effectively with stressful situations. People who coach themselves using distance self-talk felt less anxious and performed better during tough tasks and challenging events. And Ethan hasn't just seen the power of distance self-talk in a laboratory.

He's also observed its positive effects in his own family. My oldest daughter, Maya, took up diving a couple of years ago. And diving's a really interesting sport because there's a lot of opportunity for chatter and diving. Divers spend a lot of time sitting around, waiting to perform. And when the moment comes and your name is called, you climb the diving board and stand there all alone, just waiting to jump with all eyes on you. And so I asked my mind, Maya, what do you do when you're waiting?

Like, what are you thinking about? And she's like, well, you know, first I take a couple of deep breaths and then I say to myself, you got this, Maya, you can do this. And then I just do it. And I was like, huh, that's cool. And inside my mind, I had the largest grin imaginable.

But there's one additional way to take our self-talk even further, a method that can supercharge our performance and our resilience. It's the simple act of pretending that we're a superhero. Did somebody say superhero? The Happiness Lab and a special surprise super guest. We'll be back in a moment. Oh, I am so embarrassed. Wow, is that Super Grover?

Hello. I mean, just wow. I'm a big fan. What are you doing here? I was called. You said superhero and now I am here. What? How can I help?

Oh, right, of course. Well, before the break, the psychologist Ethan Cross was telling us about ways we can talk to ourselves better. Oh, of course, of course. He was just about to explain a new self-talk strategy. And I think that that self-talk strategy might involve superheroes. Well, then you are in luck because I, Super Grover, am a superhero! Right.

Yeah! But I think we need to hear a bit more from Ethan before we dive in. Dive in? I did not know we would be swimming today. I will be right back with my super swim gear. Swim trunks, goggles, afloaty flippers, you know, the essentials. Wait, Super Grover. What?

No, we're not swimming. Dive in is just something you say, the essentials. Wait, Super Grover. What? No, we're not swimming. Dive in is just something you say. And he's out of here. While we wait for Super Grover's return, let's have Ethan Cross unpack this idea of superhero self-talk a bit more. What do we know about superheroes? Superheroes, they don't give up.

They persevere. Ethan suspected that talking to ourselves as though we were superheroes might help us push through tough tasks with the determination of a cape-wearing hero. He tested this theory not with adults, but with six-year-old children. He asked kids to perform a task that was both frustrating and boring. They had to press a button if they saw a picture of cheese on a screen, but they had to hold off pressing that button if they saw a cat. Ethan explained to the kids that the task was very important, and it would be really helpful if they could stick with it as long as they could. Some kids were told to coach themselves through the dull task using first-person pronouns. These kids were told to use phrases like, am I working hard? How could I do better?

But the second group of kids was given a more, uh, super set of instructions. They were told... Pretend you're a superhero, and then use your superhero name to coach yourself through the problem. Come on, Super Lori, you can do this. The kids who adopted the persona of a superhero stuck with the task nearly twice as long as the other children. The simple act of using this new form of distant self-talk really did turn Ethan's subjects into performance

superheroes. I thought that would work. Let me try again. Into performance superheroes! There he is, right on cue. I am back, and I have got my swim

gear. This super- super swimming superhero is ready to go. Nice trunk, Super Grover. Thank you. But I was trying to tell you I don't need any help with swimming. Oh, you do not. But I do need your super self to help with something else. What are we waiting for? I, Super Grover, am here to help. I can always count on you. You see, I'm trying to practice some more effective self-talk, and that's where you come in. So what would you do if you, like me, were feeling overwhelmed by today's podcast and had lots to do? Oh, um, that is a good question, Dr. Lori. What do you think I should do? Well, I think you would be really confident. You would say something like,

Super Grover, you can handle anything that comes your way. Does that sound right? Yeah, keep going. What else? You would probably talk yourself up, ideally using the second or third person pronouns. Ah, yes. So saying something like, Super Grover can do it. You know, something to remind yourself that you're strong and capable. Oh, yes, that is good. I would do exactly that. And I am sure this is what you were going to say next. I would assemble a team of super chickens to help me with any task I was confronted with. Super chickens are quite excellent sidekicks, you know. Well, I wasn't necessarily going to say that, but that's great advice. Super chickens. Writing that down. As you should. But Super Grover, what if you and your super chickens can't do something? What happens if you make a mistake?

Well, what am I talking about? Of course you never make mistakes. You're Super Grover. Superheroes don't make mistakes. No, no, Dr. Laurie. That is not true. Even I, as super as superheroes come, make mistakes every now and then. And do not forget, you are super too, Dr. Lori. Thanks, but I don't feel so super today. You know, maybe it's time to talk to an expert. Me? An expert?

Well, if you say so. Let me see, what can I talk about? Oh, I got it! I have got a great story about tap-dancing sheep. Oh, you are going to love this. Oh, Super Grover, I should have been a bit clearer. My next scientist friend

is already here to do the next part. But let's save that sheep story for next time, because I'm really on the edge of my seat over here. Oh, sure, sure. I can tell it to you anytime. Because now I kind of need some advice

for how to be nicer to myself with all these mistakes I keep making. Well, that's the great thing about being a self-compassion teacher, because all you have to be to be self-compassionate is a flawed human being who makes mistakes. And I'm very good at that. This is UT Austin psychologist Kristen F. Kristen is totally cool admitting that she messes up. In fact, she thinks it's an important step in becoming kinder to ourselves. We are imperfect human beings. We don't have all that knowledge at hand. There's so many factors that are really outside of our direct control.

It's hard to admit that. We would really like to believe that we could be perfect if we were only to try hard enough. So it's a natural human reaction. It's just not a very effective one. Kristen's an expert on the physical and psychological consequences of beating ourselves up when we make mistakes. If you look physiologically, self-criticism raises cortisol levels. It can lead to high blood pressure and eventually harm our physical health as well. Most of us know that self-criticism doesn't feel nice. But we still do it because we assume it's effective.

We feel that if we are compassionate toward ourselves, we're just letting ourselves off the hook. We won't try to change or become lazy. You know, we'll never reach our goals or improve. And of course, the research shows it's the exact opposite. What it does is it just makes you more stressed. It makes you more anxious. It just makes it harder for you to process and learn from your mistakes. But Kristen's research has found that there is another form of self-talk we can use to learn from our mistakes and do better. It's what she and other scholars call self-compassion. Talking to ourselves with the same kindness and care that we'd show a good friend. Sounds pretty good, doesn't it? But how do we do it? The first step is something we talk about a lot on the Happiness Lab.

Mindfulness. We have to be aware of what we're feeling in order to have a compassionate response. And that means being aware of what's happening, especially being aware of your difficult emotions or your feelings of pain or sadness or distress. So we need to listen to ourselves and admit, hey, I'm really having a hard time. This is painful. This hurts. Becoming more mindful also requires doing something that can be really hard, especially for busy parents. You need to pause long enough to notice how you're actually feeling. Usually we're just so caught up in what's happening, you know, moment by moment in the stress of our lives, you don't take that pause necessary to say, how am I feeling? What do I need right now? And it's the mindfulness that really allows us to take that pause and ask that question.

The second step of self-compassion is also a little tough. It involves recognizing that all the pain and hurt we're experiencing is normal and something that everybody goes through. It's what Kristen calls recognizing your common humanity. So just remembering, hey, this is human. I'm a human being. I'm a human being trying the best I can. This is part of life, so I'm not alone.

But unfortunately, this we're all in it together mentality often eludes us. Our first instinct is to flee into a sense of isolation. It's just me. There's something wrong with me. And this is like kicking ourselves when we're down because not only are we hurting, we feel all alone, we feel isolated, we feel disconnected from others. Recognizing our common humanity can give us a reassuring sense of belonging in tough times or when we make mistakes. Yeah, you might have messed up, but that's the human condition. And this is what really differentiates self-compassion from self-pity. Self-pity is self-focus, feeling sorry for oneself. Self-compassion is, hey,

everyone's a human being who struggles doing the best they can in the moment. And this is actually what provides the buffer so that we aren't so overwhelmed by trauma or difficulty. The third and final step of self-compassion is the active part. We need to engage in what's known as self-kindness. Kindness is the desire to help in some way. It involves warmth. It involves encouragement, a friendliness toward ourself. And this is really what is kind of the motivational engine of self-compassion, this desire to help ourselves be well in the moment.

Kristen has found that there are many ways we can show ourselves kindness. One really effective and easy way to express kindness is through physical touch. The body doesn't really differentiate between someone else putting their hand on your shoulder or you putting your hand on your own heart. You respond the same way. So start by giving yourself some compassionate touch or a quick self-hug. And don't forget our letter of the day, S.

We can use self-talk as a form of self-kindness. Either imagine what you would say to a friend you cared about, or what a friend who cared about you would say to you. Oh, I see. This didn't go so well. Well, I'm only human. How can I improve it next time? How can I work to address this in a kind, constructive way? Do you need to call a friend? Do you need to take a break? It really gives you the emotional resources you need

to own up to your mistakes and try to repair them. It's okay if these self-compassion steps don't yet feel intuitive. Kristen's work has shown that it does take practice. But the benefits are huge. Individuals who use more compassionate self-talk perform better. They eat healthier and have stronger marriages. Kids who are more self-compassionate are more resilient in the face of bullying and study harder when they get a bad grade.

And self-compassion helps people of all ages better face up to their mistakes. They're more able to say, hey, you know, I really messed up here. But really importantly, they are more motivated to repair the harm done. And one final amazing benefit of self-compassion, it seems to be contagious. If you hear someone else being self-compassionate out loud, you are more than likely to have your internal dialogues be self-compassionate. Not only will more compassionate self-talk improve your life and your relationships, it's also a great way to set an example for your children. Seeing grown-ups act kindly towards themselves can help young people learn to be nice to themselves too,

and to do so much earlier in life. Could you imagine, Lori, if you had had self-compassion skills when you were in middle school? What a difference it would have made, you know? And so if we can give our kids that gift, it's just, it helps so tremendously. After the break, we'll get concrete about what we can do to build these self-compassion skills, both for ourselves as adults and for the young people in our lives. We'll learn specific strategies for putting mindfulness, common humanity, and self-kindness into practice. And if we're lucky, we may be able to do that with help from a special super monster volunteer. Ooh, a special super monster volunteer. Sounds exciting. I cannot wait to hear that. Super Grover, I'm talking about you.

You're the Super Monster Volunteer. Oh, well, of course I am. That is right. The Happiness Lab. And me, Super Grover. We'll be back after the break. We're back with the Happiness Grover podcast, and I'm here with Super Lab. Wait a minute.

I think you meant to say Happiness Lab podcast and Super Grover. Yeah, I did. How frustrating. I'm still all over the place today. And what's worse is I've got a superhero as a guest on my podcast. I should really be bringing my A game. Ooh, that sounds fun. An A game? How do you play?

No, no, no. My A-game. That means when you're doing your best, which is not what I am doing right now. But I wonder if I could do better if I had a little self-talk help. Super Grover, do you think you could help me be a little kinder to myself? Of course, Dr. Laurie. Kindness is a superpower, you know. Yes, that's just what my friend Kristen Neff was explaining to me. She says it takes practice, but we can be kinder to ourselves. Like we are kind to others. Exactly.

And kind to cute little furry animals. Yeah. And kind to plants, and to pretty little flowers, and to bugs like worms and beetles, and to our neighbors like Cookie Monster and Rosita and Alan and Chris. And Super Grover.

And Gabrielle and Zoe and Tamir. Absolutely. And now I was hoping that you could help me try out some of the self-compassionate self-talk strategies that Kristen had shared earlier. What do you say? I say, allow me to demonstrate. Talking to yourself with Compassion 101. First step, mindfulness.

That's when we slow down and pay attention to our bodies, feelings, and what's around us. Yes. So let us pretend I am having a hard time rescuing a kitty from a tree. I would say something like, I am feeling frustrated. This cute and adorable kitty will not come down from this tree. Well done, Super Grover. Thank you. Now, on to step number two. Common humanity. This is when we tell ourselves that we all feel this way sometimes. So, I would say, Super Grover, it is okay.

Even superheroes struggle with getting kitties down from trees sometimes. Way to go, Super Grover. But wait, there is more. Step number three, self-kindness. That is when we are kind to ourselves. For example, after trying to get that kitty cat out of the tree, I realized it was actually just a squirrel who did not want to leave the tree because that is where he keeps all of his nuts. Silly me. the tree because that is where he keeps all of his nuts. Silly me. But it is okay that I made a mistake. I am still super. Super Grover, that was awesome. You make self-compassion look so easy. Ah, yes. Wow. That is what superheroes do. And now it is your turn to give it a try, Dr. Lori. Well, okay. Here it goes. I'm feeling a little overwhelmed today, but that's okay. I'm an

experienced podcast host and a happiness expert, so I can get through this. How did I do? That was wonderful, spectacular, amazing, and dare I say, super! Right, Super Grover? Yes, absolutely. You know, I'm really glad you crash-landed into the studio today. You, like the other guests, have done such a great job at showing me the power of positive self-talk. I have? You have.

Of course I have! Yes! I am an expert in kind and compassionate self-talk. I have? You have. Of course I have! Yes! I am an expert in kind and compassionate self-talk, you know. That you are a real expert in. And because I am such an expert, I have a little something for you to read. Uh, what's this? I have taken the liberty of writing your outro for you

and all of your podcast-listening friends. Go on, give it a little read. Okay, I'll give it a go. Thank you for tuning in to the podcast. You have been wonderful listeners, and I, Dr. Laurie, have been a wonderful podcast host. Until next time, this is your smart, friendly, kind, and happy host, Dr. Laurie Santos. Uh, Super Grover, how do I say this next part? There are a lot of extra letters in there.

Ah, yes, like this. Goodbye, everybody! Sesame Street is the street where everyone is always welcome. And I hope my new friends have felt just as at home here at the Happiness Lab. Oh, we did, Dr. Laurie. Yeah, we had a lot of fun.

Aw, that makes me feel... Warm and fuzzy? Delighted? Filled with joy? Yes, Grover. And if I could add one more, happy. Aw, that makes me feel... Warm and fuzzy? Delighted? Filled with joy? Yes, Grover. And if I could add one more, happy. Aw, Dr. Lurie. Thanks for listening to the Happiness Lab podcast. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.

Later, podcast people. See you next time. The Happiness Lab is co-written and produced by Ryan Dilley. Our original music was composed by Zachary Silver, with additional scoring, mixing, and mastering by Evan Viola. Jess Shane and Alice Fiennes offered additional production support. We'd like to thank the amazing Sesame Street puppeteers, Leslie Carrera-Rudolph, Ryan Dillon, Eric Jacobson, and Matt Vogel.

And special thank yous to the folks over at Sesame Workshop, Emily Bandy, Alyssa Chihi, Gabriela DeGennaro, Jessica Salvo, And special thank yous to the folks over at Sesame Workshop. Special thanks to my agent, Ben Davis, and all of the Pushkin crew. The Happiness Lab is brought to you by Pushkin Industries and me, Dr. Laurie Santos.