The Harry Sisson Show - Watch Dem Leader EXPOSE THE TRUTH About Trump

Episode Date: December 4, 2025

Governor Wes Moore of Maryland sat down with Harry Sisson for a wide ranging interview to discuss topics like Trump's term, how we win back young people, how Democrats can fight back, and more.

Wow, so perfect. It feels so professional. It's like, you know what I mean? It's so perfect. Well, thank you for joining me and coming out here. I've been looking forward to this. Thanks, one. I know you grew up in New York, and so you've been around, so it's good to have you back in The Big Apple all the way from Maryland. I know. It's good to be back. I spent a lot of my former years here. Yeah, yeah. And I imagine that formed a lot of your politics as well. It did. Well, you know, it's interesting. I think in New York was the first time I got a, chance to really see and feel what inequality feels like.

And the fact that, you know, you have such a divided city in such a divided place where, you know, I got my first taste of broken systems, probably when I, even before I got to New York, because I watched my dad die in front of me when I was three because he didn't get the health care he needed when I was living in Maryland. And I went to go live with my grandparents because they were up in New York. My grandfather was a minister in the South Bronx. My grandmother was a schoolteacher in the South Bronx. And my mom had us to go live with them.

And so, but when I got there, you just realized that it's one city, but it's not. That's a really good way to describe it, actually. You know, it is like, it is a multitude of just different communities that are all having very different New York experiences. Yeah. And when I was in New York was really the first time that I got a chance to feel that, that we still are so far from a society where everybody feels they have a vested interest in its long-term success. So how often do you come to New York? I still, I mean, I still come to New York pretty often because I still have a lot of family here.

Yeah, right. I still have family in Queens. My wife is actually from Queens. Oh, no way. And so, yeah. So it's kind of funny that, you know, she spent her whole childhood in New York. New York and she didn't come to Maryland until she went to the University of Maryland. And I spent much, much childhood in New York.

And so it's kind of funny now that the governor and the first lady of the state of Maryland are two people who very much were informed by growing up in New York. Somewhat from the great state of New York. That's right. That's right. But I wanted to start on the politics of it all with a post that Donald Trump put out this morning at 9 in the morning. He woke up angry. He normally does.

He normally does. And he cited an article, and I can show you the post if you'd like to see it yourself. He cited an article from the Washington Examiner. It was talking about, I'm not sure if you saw that video of elected Democrats who had served, like yourself, saying to military officials, you know, you have to reject illegal orders, you know, follow your oath. And Donald Trump responded to that video saying it's called seditious behavior at the highest level. Each one of these traders, service members, he's calling traitors, to our country, should be arrested. did and put on trial. Their words cannot be allowed to stand. We won't have a country anymore. An example must be set, President D.J.T. And then later, he reposted something from a random user

saying, hang them, George Washington would. And he reposted that on his page. So, you know, obviously insane, crazy. What's your response to the president? Yeah, well, I mean, what they're talking about is not seditious behavior. It's the law. because we, unlike the president of the United States, we actually took an oath. And when I joined the Army, I joined the Army now I was 17 years old. And the oath that I took

that I was going to follow the Constitution of the United States, and I would follow the lawful orders of the commander-in-chief. There is an important word in that that the President seems to be forgetting, lawful, that I am under no obligation to follow laws that are not lawful.

or to follow orders that are not lawful. And so I think what people were saying, and I am very much part of this crowd, that's saying like, we as soldiers, sailors, airmen, Marines, we are trained on how to perform functions that we are trained for. We're trained to go fight and win our nation's wars. We are trained as members of national guards

to go and deal with emergencies and crises that develop within our states and under the order of our commander-in-chief, which in our National Guard's case is the governor, that we are going to go and follow lawful orders that our commander-in-chief lays out. But what he's talking about is, you will follow what I say no matter what.

And the president needs to understand is that's not the law. That's not our training. That's not the oath that we took. And using, you know, it's interesting that he would talk about George Washington, that's actually really rich, because we in Maryland know a little something about George Washington. Because George Washington, it was actually in Maryland, in our state capital, right?

The same building that I work in is the place where George Washington resigned his commission. Wow. For the first time in our nation's history, General George Washington, the commander of the Continental Army, walked in to that building. And that's where he gave in his letter of resignation. and he gave in his letter of resignation. And actually, I have a copy of it that's sitting inside of my office that's hanging on my desk. And I welcome the president to come view it any time he would like. But in that letter, George Washington talked about the fact that the power doesn't belong to him, that the power belongs to the people.

And in this new country, we would develop something new and unique and never seen before in world history, which is actually a representative democracy. where the people are going to follow laws and not a king. And it was actually in our building, in our state capital, that General George Washington walked in as the leader of the Continental Army, and he walked out as a farmer, where he left the power and said the power belongs to the people. So interesting that Donald Trump would bring up George Washington,

he should come learn about George Washington. And I welcome him to the statehouse to come learn about what democracy, is and where why we talk about following lawful orders and where that came from. Yeah, I mean, you know, I'm just, I'm looking at him repost this talking about hanging people. Yes. And that, like, saying it feels surreal that we're talking about the president. It's very January 6th.

Yeah, it's very January 6th. Like regardless of who's in office, Democrat, Republican, you'd hope he wouldn't be, you know, talking about the idea of hanging your opponents. I mean, for me, it's just sickening. Yes. And I think, you know, this, the vision that Donald Trump has brought upon our, I mean, he got a start in politics, claiming Obama wasn't born here. Correct. And the division is just so.

Actually, before that, he started with with the Central Park Five. Well, that kind of like, good point. This is a lifelong, this is a lifelong endeavor. It's a like, yeah, it's a lifelong mission for him, it seems. And so, I mean, you know, me as an outsider, you know, somebody that's watching the politics, private citizen, it's disturbing to me every day. I mean, how do you deal with the division, you know, as an elected official? Yeah. How do you see it every day?

You know, it's tough because it's also just very foreign for us. Where, you know, like, I don't come from a political background. And this, like, tribalism of politics is just really disturbing for me. And it's honestly a firsthand view of why people hated politics so much in the first place. Where, you know, when I first told my family that I was running for governor, I had many members of my family who had to convince to vote for me when I was going to governor. And it's not that like we're not cool. Like we're cool.

I had to convince them to vote in the first place. Wow. Because people are so disgusted with politics. And so the thing that we see, especially as governors while they sit and why he can sit in Washington and just foment this stuff because he's not connected to it. That as governors, like we're in our communities every day. And I see that that's not where people. people are, that people don't put themselves in these tribal boxes in the same way. That when I was leading soldiers in combat, like I never once asked my soldiers, what's your political party?

And so to see how the person whose unique job it actually should be to bring folks together is actually using his platform to just distract and disrupt, it just, again, it just highlights that for him, this is not about a public service. This is a private endeavor that he's utilizing the office in order to achieve his other goals. 100%. I mean, you know, you're seeing his net worth go up by how many billions, how many X's? It's crazy. I mean, like, you know, the things that, and the double standards around it are just, of course, but it's just like, we've, we've never seen something like this where um and definitely not in the united states uh and that's where again him referencing people like george washington uh who when you're talking about people who came and founded you know we're

coming on the 250th anniversary of our country history which is actually a really important time for our country to reflect about the unevenness of our history the complicated nature of american history but the fact that even in our most complicated times we've actually been there's two things it's really saved us the entire time, right? It was God's grace, and it was moral leadership. And you just realize right now we're going to need both because it's not, you know, the moral leadership front is not what we're getting.

Well, I don't want to talk about Trump the entire time, but I do have one more question. Of course. You have, of course, had your personal beef with the president. He has attacked you. He's attacked your state. He's attacked Baltimore. He called the city a deathbed.

a deathbed with tremendous crime. And then he also, in addition to the spat you guys had over the summer, said that you privately, I can't even, it's like hard to say with a straight face, you privately called him the greatest president of our generation. And he said, you know, you couldn't say it publicly, but you wish you would. Couldn't say it both because I didn't say it privately. Exactly. And it's actually why.

You know, it is funny because he's referencing when. I met him at the Army Navy game last year. And like, you know, I'm an Army guy. So I always rock for the Army on Army Navy game. So the game was being played in Maryland. And so I get word that, like, you know, the President-elect would like to meet you at the game. I'm like, it's in Maryland, of course.

So he comes up. And this is actually the truth would happen. He comes up. As soon as I met him, I said, welcome back to Maryland, you know, Mr. President, Mr. President-elect. And the very first thing out of his mouth is he said, you're a really good looking guy in person.

It was the weirdest thing. That was literally the first thing that he said to me. And I said, thank you, Mr. President. I'm not sure I respond to that. And I was like, you know, go army. And then he's like, my people are telling me you're doing a really good job. He's like, how can I help you? And I started talking about our bridge in Baltimore.

And the work that we're doing to now, which is in a historic speed and fashion, really be able to restore something that in the middle of the night, we saw a ship at the size of three football fields slam into our key bridge collapsed instantaneously, and we lost six construction workers because of it. And that was the conversation. And ironically, it was all on camera. So when he then turns around and says that I called him the greatest president of my lifetime, or I think he said, I said, sir, you are the greatest president of my lifetime.

I was just like, you know, just like roll a tape back, man. So it almost seems like a little bit of projection there. You know, he was saying that you're doing such a good job and you're a good looking guy in person according to him. And then he tried to like flip the script a little bit. And he had this whole conversation in his head. It was actually. It's surprising, right? It's out of nowhere for him.

But I do want to talk about Maryland. And it's somewhat pertains to the state, but also nationally. You're redistricting battle right now. There have been a lot of people in the state of Maryland across the country who want a robust response to the Republicans. and they're redistricting and what they're doing in Texas, and they seem to be on shaky footing right now with the case that just struck them down. But you want redistricting.

The Senate in Maryland is somewhat standing in your way. The Senate president. The Senate president. Yeah, got it right. The Senate president. Are you confident that you're going to be able to overcome this? What's the state of place? Well, I mean, I think it's really important

that people understand why we're even doing this in the first place. Is that, like, every single state goes through this redistricting process every single decade after the Senate. after the census, that's what they do. But the reason we're even having this conversation is because this is part of a larger assault that we are seeing on our democracy. Like, let's be clear, this is not happening in isolation.

It's happening simultaneously when the president is going after the Voting Rights Act, which is would completely disenfranchise collections of voters, specifically black voters, that we're watching political redlining that is now happening. It's happening simultaneously while the president is trying to go after mail-in balloting. And there's a reason that he's saying, oh, we should not do

mail-in-balloting. Everyone should do the traditional way, the American way of voting. But if you're doing mail-a-if you're getting rid of mail-in balloting, while you're also trying to deploy troops and streets and ICE agents, what you're doing is voter suppression, right? That you're doing it at a time, that all that's happening at a time when the president of the United States is picking and choosing what states he wants to have mid-decade redistricting battles. And ironically, look at what states he's picking. Texas, Florida, Missouri, Ohio, North Carolina. So it's very clear about what states he wants to have this conversation.

So the only thing I'm saying is, listen, if the rest of the country is going to have mid-decade redistricting conversations, then so will Maryland. And I'm not going to let Donald Trump decide what our democracy looks like. And listen, we should have a larger, the Congress should be the ones to take this up. the Congress should have national redistricting laws that were passed. But, oh, yeah, the Congress did put together National Redisting Act. And you know who voted against it? People like Congressman Andy Harris in my state,

who's now calling the fact that I called for a bipartisan redistricting advisory commission, that he's calling that a sham. But I'm like, but when Congress tried to pass a National Redistricting Act, you voted against it. And so the hypocrisy is just absolutely ridiculous, and it's staggering for a lot of these folks. And so all I'm simply saying is Maryland needs to make sure that we have fair maps. And so I called for a governor's redistricting advisory commission,

which is led by, which is bipartisan, has Democrats and Republicans, led by our senator, Senator Angela Also Brooks, who's now leading a process of actually talking to Marylanders. Crazy enough. We're not sitting in back rooms with a Sharpie. Like they did in Texas. Like they did in other states. That's exactly right. We're actually talking to people and hearing their perspectives.

and talking to lawyers and speaking with our attorney general and the former attorney general, and we're getting input from people who are then telling us how Maryland should think about our redistricting process. So I am very clear on this, and I am immovable on this, that our commission should do their work.

They will come back with their recommendations. But if the rest of the country is going to go through this process to determine whether or not they have fair maps, then so will Maryland. And nobody is more, is bigger than democracy. Nobody can stop democracy from happening. And I think that this moment requires courage.

This moment requires urgency. This moment requires people ensuring that Maryland's voice is going to be heard. And there is nobody in our delegation and nobody in our general assembly, no one person who can stop that process from happening. Man, I love that. I love that. And I love the fight. And I think you outlined it well. It's the, for me, I think, and for a lot of people, it's the hypocrisy.

Yes. It's a complete hypocrisy. And you're seeing it even from the Department of Justice. They are claiming that what California did is illegal by going to the voters. But you had members of the Texas legislator explicitly saying, we're doing this for political, they didn't hide it. Like, we're doing this to give Donald Trump seats. Correct. And they did it.

And they didn't, you know, ask the voters, they didn't do what you folks are doing in Maryland. Correct. They just did it in a back room and then five extra seats. It's the hypocrisy of it for me. It's the hypocrisy. That's what I'm like, so all these people talk about, well, you know, Maryland is, you know, trying to, you know, do this. And West Moore is trying to.

I'm like, yo, miss me, seriously. Because y'all had nothing to say about Texas. You had nothing to say about Ohio. You had nothing to say about Florida. So, pardon me if I'm not taking your complaints very seriously, particularly when you guys have no energy and no fight, when we were watching this attack on democracy that has taken place and you want to spend your time in energy,

Now figuring out why we should not act, why we should just allow for this steamrolling to happen. Well, okay, maybe I'm built different, but I'm going to spend my time and energy figuring out how we fight. And I said, I love that. And like, I wish, and I know you've communicated this, of course, to the Senate president. I just, I wish they, I wish someone like him was meeting the moment and being part of this, this fight. I think it's a five alarm fire for our democracy right now. There are so many different ways of which Trump and the Republicans are attacking it every single day. And this redistricting battle is something that, you know, Democrats can actually have a say in, right?

We don't control the House, the Senate, or the presidency, or the Supreme Court or any of these agencies. But on a state level, we can fight back. And it's so frustrating to see folks who have talked correctly about the danger that Donald Trump poses, kind of backing off suddenly when things get a little real. Correct. And like, and people who are just like, you know, who are afraid of fighting. afraid of fighting afraid of fighting afraid of fighting and listen and i and i and i'll say for you know at least for for for uh bill ferguson like he's agreed to be part of the commission which which i appreciate that i'm glad he's going to be one voice in the commission and one member of the commission of this bipartisan

commission we pulled together but i just and so not even so much about but about him but i'm just think about for all the people, for the others right now in this moment who do not understand this moment. And like I've said, man, you know, to learn, man, you've got summertime soldiers and you got wintertime soldiers. Summertime soldiers, it's easy to be a summertime soldier because you can be a soldier when the weather's nice. But I'm looking for who are the summertime soldiers right now. Who are the wintertime soldiers right now? Who are the ones who understand that when the battle is intense, who are the ones that I can look at to my left them to my right and say they're ready? And they're not blinking. And I just think that this history is not going to

remember the Trump administration well. But for all these people who are just sitting quiet and capitulating, history will remember them worse. And so now is the moment I think people got to figure out what side of the ledger you're going to be on. How's history going to remember you? And do you think the elected Democrats in in D.C. or just across the country, do you think that most of them are meeting this moment or would you prefer a more robust response? I always want a more robust response because I know what's at stake. Yeah. You know, like, listen, we just came off of we're, I'm dealing, I'm leading a state that is probably the most exposed to Donald Trump's lawless behavior than any other state in this country. Yeah. That even before the

federal government shutdown, we had over 15,000 Marylanders fired by Donald Trump and J.D. Vance. People who had the audacity of doing things like making sure that our food is safe and our planes aren't colliding and that they can actually find the cures to diseases and that veterans, like myself, that veterans, when we came back home, that we can get the medication we needed. Like that's what they were doing. And these are people who were fired by Donald Trump and J.D. Vance in this assault on our federal workers. I got folks in Western Maryland. By the way, that's a part of my state that voted for, that voted for Donald Trump. And we have had every single federal disaster relief, despite them getting, despite them getting historic floods, every single federal disaster relief support that

should have been gumming to my folks in Western Maryland has been turned bound down by this White House because they've said that support for Maryland is not warranted. Left them behind. And so I just think that in this time that what our people need to see are fighters and people who are not willing to compromise, people who don't believe that a prerequisite to opening up the federal government should be kicking my people off of health care, that we are watching how we have an administration that's used in the Constitution like as a suggestion box. And so I think the people of my state, they realize and they know that we are going to fight for the people of our state. And we're going to fight to make sure that in this moment that Marylanders can look up and say that we had a we had soldiers who were willing to stand

on the wall to make sure that we're going to be okay yeah man I mean I just that gets me fired up you know what I mean that's that's that's that's the exact right attitude and I'm hoping that as we get closer to 2026 especially and you know Trump is threatening all these different things with the elections and he's creating task force and the DOJ to send to different states it's crazy but I'm just hoping that people are standing up to that and that I want to go ahead no please well and I'll say too and I And I hope that people don't just use this moment to push back. Yeah. I also want, in Maryland, we're going to use this moment to push forward.

I love that. You know, so we're going to push back, but we're going to push forward. We're going to make sure that we can show that there actually is a better way. When it comes addressing things like public safety in our communities, there is a better way to be able to address things like affordability and making sure we can make life a little bit easier for the people of our state. We can make sure there's a better way to make sure that people can get health care and that we should not have an administration who's going to, going to spend their time trying to break the law so they can use food as a weapon that we can show in our state that there's actually a better way to be able to show what leadership looks like.

You know, when you're just, you're talking and you're correctly describing Donald Trump. I mean, it's just, I think I go back to the word sickening of using food, health care, things that you'd hope the government is able to stand in for in people's time of need. Using that as a weapon as a political tool. Yes. It's just sickening. I mean, I know you see it as a governor especially. It's just, I don't know.

And it's just like, um, it's just like, um, it's just like, um, you know, it's just like, um, And it's just so deeply disturbing because, and I think, again, I take it from a very personal place where one of the earliest memories I have in my life was watching my dad die in front of me because he didn't get the health care he needed. Yeah. So this is a very and a deeply personal issue to me. And I see how we already have a health care system in this country that is unequal, that's not distributed fairly. that is already expensive. And we're watching how families in Maryland could watch their healthcare premiums

jump by $15 and $20,000 and $25,000. People who are already struggling, right? I mean, and so that's why in Maryland, we've actually done things like making historic investments in rural health care because these are folks and these are communities that are already left behind that we invested. We made a generational investment

in putting a hospital on the eastern shore where we have a rural health care health shore hospital. The first hospital that's being built in generations that's now going to serve six different counties over the eastern shore, made the first investments in a medical center and a medical school over in western Maryland. The first time we've seen that in generations

within the state of Maryland, that we actually pass legislation to ensure that you are not going to have spiking health care premiums, jump, because we knew what the federal government was probably going to do. So in Maryland, we're actually doing that to make sure we're curbing that, that in Maryland we're actually doing,

things to ensure that we actually put a, you know, that you said even if the President of United States is trying to break the law so he could cut SNAP, that in my state, I actually allocated $62 million from our fiscal, from our fiscal discipline fund to ensure that for Marylanders who receive SNAP, that they would not be interrupted, despite the fact that you had a federal administration that just could not get right. So we're just going to make sure that on basic things like health care, that we don't have more stories like mine. people who are coming up and watching how a health care system, how the failure of a health care system shapes a family for generations to come.

And so that's the thing we're just committed to making sure we can get done in our state. You know, Governor, what I appreciate about you is that I think you really have both a policy understanding of the issues, but a personal understanding of the issues. And what's especially fascinating about you is that this is your first elected office. This is your first go at it. And it's just, and I actually knew of you before your entry in politics. I loved the other Westmore. Thank you.

It was one of my favorite books. I got my mom to read it too. She loved it as well. And, you know, and I think that book was formative for me and a lot of people on political, on their political ideologies. But I'm just curious, you know, when you launched that first campaign for governor, were, are your reasons for running reelection now the same as they were then when you first announced? Or do you have more reasons? Or have they changed a little bit since you've been doing the job? I love that question.

I say the job isn't done. Like, I'm really proud of what we've gotten done so far. And you're right. Like, I've, I never ran for public office before my life. This was like, I ran against three statewide elected officials. I ran against two Obama cabinet secretaries. I ran against the former head of the DNC. Like, literally, the former head of the Democratic Party.

That's crazy. It's nuts. And then me, the guy who had no political experience at all, who would never run for office for my life, and we beat them all. And I think it's because we're, connected to the people. Yeah. Like, I was never a party's candidate. When people talk about the Democratic Party, the truth is, is that the party didn't select me. The people did. The party actually actively worked against me. But the people decided that this is who we want to be our governor.

And so I was literally came from running one of the largest poverty fighting organizations in this country when one day I was like, you know, I'm going to run for governor. I wasn't sure it was going to work out. But I was very clear on the issues that I wanted to work on. And so, I'm proud of the fact that in just two and a half years, we've accomplished a lot of the things that we set out to do. We raised a minimum wage within our state because I'm like, it's ridiculous you have people who are working jobs, in some cases, multiple jobs, instead living at or below a poverty line, right? We gave a tax cut to the middle class. We gave a tax cut to military veterans, and we asked people that were doing very, very well to pay a little bit more.

And I'm unapologetic about that, that we've been able to do things like making Maryland the first day in the country that has a service year option for all of our high school graduates. That we've been able to do things like making Maryland the first state in the country that now has a place-based investment strategy to deal with the issue of concentrated and oftentimes generational childhood poverty. We've made the most aggressive assault on child poverty than we've seen in our state's history. We've made permanent a child tax credit. We have an enhanced earn income tax credit.

That we've been able to actually drive on affordability. We've been able to create new housing and platforms to create new and affordable housing in the state of Maryland. So, like, we've gotten a lot of really good things done. But the reason I'm excited about re-election is I'm like, yo, we're just getting started. Because I still got a lot that I said we wanted to get done before we were done. And so we're thankful for that. Well, I'm going to ask you about this later because you get it in every interview. But that, to me, sounds like a presidential platform.

I'm just... Well, listen, I wish that was a platform that the president of the United States would actually focus on. You could focus on it. No. I'm not going to president. But I'm telling you, I would love if the president that the United States instead of stopped doing this foolishness would say, you know what, we do need to raise the minimum wage in this country. Yeah. Because we got people who were working jobs, in some cases, multiple jobs, and still living at or below a poverty line. I would love if the president of the United States says, you know what, I'm going to stop this trade war foolishness in these tariffs.

Because since he's been the president of the United States, we've seen how energy prices have jumped over 20%. We've seen how the price of food, the price of clothes, everything has jumped. Last week, I was at the supermarket with my daughter, and we went out shopping, and we got bread. She wanted some whipped cream. I got some fruit. We got some coffee. A couple of other small things, I spent over $100. God, that's insane.

It's like, guys, what is going on right now? That we have small businesses because of these tariffs that are getting raped. I was talking with a small business in Prince George County who's a brewing company, a family brewing company. And she's like, the price of aluminum has jumped so high that she's no longer taking a salary so she doesn't have to continue laying off people. Like, it's this type of thing that I wish, I wish the president would focus on things like raising a minimum wage, making things more affordable, creating more job opportunities, focusing on apprenticeships and trade programs, doing service year options that can get people back into the workforce, using his pardon power like I did. where I pardoned over 175,000 misdemeanor cannabis convictions in the stroke of a pen. Because I'm like, it's ridiculous that we have. We're talking about the benefits of legalization when we haven't dealt with the consequences of criminalization.

So that's how I'm using my pardon powers to do things like pardoning, doing mass pardons for misdemeanor cannabis convictions, while he's using pardon powers for Bitcoin people. So it's like, so I do wish the president would actually focus on these issues and we could have a real partner inside that scene. And I know you'd work with them. I mean, I know you'd work across the aisle on any of these things. And you talked about affordability. It's a big thing. Obviously, right now, a lot of people are thinking about affordability. And I think it's something that obviously played a huge role in 2024. And Donald Trump's victory. He lied about it. He got into the Oval Office for it. And now he's paying the price in the polls, at least a lot of people are saying, well, Trump is not doing anything on the economy. So I'm curious, you've talked about a couple of things here. But what are you doing in Maryland to tackle the affordability crisis and then somewhat a connected follow. up, how can we win back the young men, the young white men that look like me, who voted for Trump

specifically on this issue? Yeah, you know, it's interesting because one of the things that people really caught attention to when we ran, and frankly, one of the reasons that we won is because of how well we did with young men. Had it not been for young men, young voters in total, but specifically young men, we would have never won. And some people are trying to understand It's like, so how did y'all do so well with young men? I said, well, part of it was we didn't talk about young men like they were a voting block. We actually focused on real issues that were impacting our young men. And I say it both because from a data perspective, if you look at everything from rising suicide rates,

that we now have three times of suicide rates for young men that we had, you know, we have from just years ago, that the college attainment rate and college degree attainment rate in Maryland is the same as it was in the 1960. You know, so we are watching just if you look at the data, and I think you got to follow the data. But I think the other thing that we were very honest about from Jump Street was, you know, that we have to be able to, if you want to support your young women and girls, make sure your young men and boys aren't falling behind. And this is not a binary conversation where, you know, my mother, and I was raised by an immigrant single mom who is like an angel on earth for me. but there were just some fundamental things that she could not teach me about how to be a man

because she didn't know it the same way I have an amazing 14 year old daughter right now and I feel like you know I feel like I'm a great father to her who teaches her so much but I can't teach her how to be a woman because I don't know like she needs women

her mom her grandmother her aunts friends to help teach that to her because I don't, I can't teach something that I don't know. That's why we've had such a focus on making sure we're doing things like recruiting more men into education, recruiting more men to become mentors and coaches and tutors, making sure that our young people, that their first exposure to a male teacher is not in college.

Making sure that we are doing things like the service year option, where every single high school graduate in the state of Maryland now has a chance to have a paid year of service to the state of Maryland. They can choose however they want to do it. They can work with veterans. They can work with older adults. They can work with young people. Their choice. But the thing is, tell us what makes your heart be a little bit faster. And we're going to give you a pathway to go do it and how we've seen how this has been revolutionary when it comes to supporting our young men. And so we have a very unapologetic focus on supporting young men inside of our state. And I think the affordability piece, completely ties to that because this is also about one of things that young men want,

young men and boys want more than anything else is they want to be providers. They want to feel like they are relevant in their families. And so the reason that we've done things like, you know, quadrupled the pathways into apprenticeship and trade programs and making sure that people know that, yes, we have some of the best four-year colleges in America, but not every one of our young people need to attend one of them in order to be economically successful. And so we're creating real pathways for apprenticeship and trade. programs that's that's overwhelmingly helping out young men to become real contributors to their family

that part of the reason that we did the mass partons was because it allows people to get back into their families and back into the workforce and have a real sense of pride of what you can give to your family and so affordability and being able to support our young men and boys in elisa we believe in Maryland completely go hand in hand and that's actually why we're we're addressing both in the work that we're doing. And see, that's such a policy-focused approach to this issue. I think the Democratic Party sometimes gets wrapped up in, like, almost pitching a young men constantly, like, constantly saying, like, you know, you should vote for this because

X, Y, and Z, it's like, instead of just doing the work and getting them on board through results. And being authentic. And being authentic. You know what I mean? Like, people, and I know it's kind of like a running thing where people are. or like, they'll go online and they'll see me like, you know, working out with shitbin or throwing football around and going to games, whatever like that, or shotgunning a beer.

And they're like, oh, is it doing ever clicks? I was like, no, it's because it's who I am. It's just Westmore, right? It's who I am, guys. Like, like, I always say, and I told my team early, I had no problem spending all day long introducing myself to people who don't know me. Yeah. and I refuse to spend a single second

reintroducing myself to people who do know me. I am who I am. That's cold. You know what I'm saying? Like, I am who I am. And I think it actually is one of the things I think I find very fascinating by some of these folks like the J.D. Vance to the world

where it's like I don't know how every single day you have to reintroduce yourself to yourself. Wow. Yeah. God bless him. Yeah, well, there you go. Yeah, I mean, you know, there was an article in the New York Times a while ago saying that the Democrats are the party,

not, you know, elective, are investing around $20 million in trying to understand things like young male talk, just like the words, the conversations that young men have. I, to your point, I think that kind of lacks authenticity. It's, you know, I guess trying to throw a candidate out there and say, you know, say bro or dude every once in a while or talk about things like that. It just seems inauthentic, and I think that's a losing strategy. That's why, like, you know, what you're doing. And, of course, other governors are really focused on the young men issue.

Yeah, it is. And honestly, I think that people see through it. Yeah. You know, it's funny. My mother said something before that I thought was very true, where she said, people need to think that you care before they care what you think. And I think that's actually really true. Like, if, I mean, I think about all the people in my life who have had the greatest impact.

act on my life, it's because there were people who I actually thought actually cared. They weren't doing it because it was a requirement. They weren't doing it because they were getting community service hours. They weren't doing it because they were trying to impress somebody. They did it because they actually cared about me. And they wanted me to succeed despite the fact that I had my challenges. Despite the fact that I was, you know, I had handcuffed my wrist by the time I was 11 years old. You know, I was, I got, you know, I got sent away to military school because the issues I was having.

So it's like, I, I had my challenges, but the reason that I was able to make it through is because I had people in my life who were authentic. And authentically, authentically wanted more for me and wanted better for me and gave me a pathway to go get it and go after it. And so I just think that, you know, our young men and our young men and our boys were not a, we're not a voting demographic. Yeah. Or a monolith. Exactly. And so if people are talking about, well, you know, what do we need to do to win back young men and boys to vote for Democrats? My point is, if that's the conversation you're having, oh, you already lost them a long time ago.

That's not the head. That's the tail. You lost them a long time ago. Yeah, so what are you telling, I mean, I'm sure you've had these conversations. So what are you telling other candidates or the party when they come to you and ask, you know, what's the secret sauce? Yeah. People talk about it as such. What's the secret sauce to winning young men? I think for us is that we've made sure that young men are not just the topic of the conversation, that they're a part of the conversation. If people feel like there's just the subject, they're not going to be engaged. Right. You know what I'm saying? And so, like, I think about everything that we have done. We actually have a Council inside of the governor's office who were actively involved in all of the policies that we were pulling together. When we were doing our, when we were doing our policy around the youth apprenticeship work, that was because we were working in partnership with people who would be directly impacted.

When we were doing our service year work, that work wasn't done where we turn around and we say, here you go, young people. Like this was something that we actually worked in partnership with our high school students and in partnership with our GED recipients and saying, what are the things we can do? to make this better and make it work, and it's why it's the most effective program in the country is because we actually worked with people. When we did the mass pardons, we actually work with people who've been directly impacted by the injustices that we've seen from this war on drugs.

And so, for example, one of the reasons we included things like inclusion of not just possession, but like para and paraphernalia, that actually came from people who were impacted and saying, like, there's a whole population that got caught up on possession of para that were not included, if you just included people who got caught up on possession. So I included them in the pardon, too. That came because we actually stay connected to the people. And so the way I continue to look at my governing philosophy is I'm never going to forget who put me there in the first place. Like, the party did not do that. No one, there is no, there's no party boss that told me, hey, if you say this, it's going to work how fine. The people did. And so I think if you just stay authentically and

genuinely connected to the people, you'll keep on getting the answers you're looking for. I just thought about this. Going back to like the young men conversation, one of the things that drove me nuts during 2024 was seeding ground to them on the health conversation, the maha crap, right? And they're doing insane stuff on vaccines and defunding really important studies. But Republicans and no shame to, you know, well, maybe shame to Donald Trump. He's not exactly the embodiment of physical fitness, right? Like, he couldn't, you know, play in the NFL.

So, you know, the whole fitness conversation and then us kind of losing that to them drove me nuts. So I'm curious. Talk to me about your fitness routine. What do you do? What do you eat to stay healthy? And have the Ravens ever approached you to play like linebacker? I mean, you're like, what, 6'4?

You could, like, lean over the line and talk to the quarterback? I would drop everything right out if the horrible to sell me up for a contract. You know, so, like, you know what was funny because I, um, I am someone who does take physical fitness very seriously. But for me, it's also as much mental health as it as anything else because it's one of the only times of the day where I don't have a phone attached to me.

I don't have a briefing book. It's just like, it's just you. And you're going after it. And I remember during my first days as governor, I called up our chief of staff, a guy who's the name was Fagan Harris. And I'm like, all right, listen, I need to find a gym. And like, it's not, I can't just go to like a plan of fitness. It's like it's a little more complicated.

Yeah, right. You know what I'm saying? So I need to just find a way I can just keep getting my workouts in. And he said, let me see what I can do. He calls me up hours later. And he's like, listen, we just spoke with the Naval Academy and the soup over there. And they said, you can come work out anytime you want. And the Naval Academy is like down the street from the house.

That's amazing. So I was like, that's great. And so I go down there and I meet one of their head strength coaches there. And he's like, listen, he's like, we can kind of cord an area and you can throw your buds in and, you know, do your thing. He's like, or if you want to, we can actually work out together and you can actually get after it. So, oh, shit, here we go. Let's get after it then. And so every single day, I will go to the Naval Academy and go work out together.

And sometimes we'll do large, you know, PT, you know, PT runs with the midshipmen. Sometimes we'll go out. But it's like, when you ever show up, it's whatever they got going on that day, that's what you're going to get into. And it's been amazing, both because I just, I just have so much respect for the academy and for the midshipment. And I always say I'm a huge fan of the academy on 364 days of the year.

Only day I'm a lot of fan is Army Navy Day. That's right. But it's something that I just think is so crucially important to who I am, to how I view the world, how physical fitness does play into all this stuff. And also it's just like, it is this ability to be able to find

and identify those things things in your life that you're not going to compromise on, that have to be priorities for you. And for me, it is things like fitness is a priority for me. I got to make time for it. You know, focusing on my faith. That is a priority for me. I got to make time for it. My family, that is a priority for me. I've got to make time for it. And so that's the thing, how I think it's actually helping to establish a real sense of balance in what otherwise could be a pretty chaotic world. Yeah, I imagine that's like, it's a nice retreat. Totally. Just the nice retreat during the day.

Totally sure. And listen, like, when you out there, they don't give shit. They're like, he's a gun, I don't care. Like, like, swolems. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Imagine, yeah. Maybe don't, maybe military generally don't play around. They don't play around. It's like, listen, can you, can you do the work or not? Yeah. Can you do the work or not? What's the most intense thing they've had you do? Oh, gosh. Maybe do cardio. This week? No, I mean, like, and honestly, I think one of the great things is that every day is going to be different. Yeah. Right? I mean, you know, there'll be sometimes that you're going to get out there. And it's always, it's always some form of cardio. Cardio is a consistent thing.

Yeah. And whether it's cardio in weights, whether it is long ruck marches, whether it is, you know, the other day I was actually watching, they're doing, you know, like buddy cares. Actually, one thing that was funny is sometimes we'll also do pool workouts. Oh my gosh. And so I'm sitting there swimming. And true story, I'm sitting there swimming. And I look, as I'm swimming, I look down and I see probably like eight people at the bottom of the pool. Just like laying down at the bottom of the pool.

So once I get to the end of the pool, I stop and I said to one people I was swimming with. I was like, did you see the people down there? I was like, what are they doing? And I was like, oh yeah, those are folks who were pre-buds. So these are all people who are trying to be seals. Oh, my gosh. And so I was like, okay, and I said to him, I was like, let me just tell you right now, if you ever see me at the bottom of a pool, there's nothing I am trained for.

That is not a drill. Please come get me right now. Come save me. But that's the intensity of some of these folks and why I just have such a great level of respect for the sacrifice that they're making on behalf of this country and why I think we just have a solemn responsibility that to care. for our military, to care for our veterans, to care for our police officers and firefighters. Like, people who are just willing to do things and train in ways that at the bottom of the pool, at the bottom of the pool, like, that's their training. Yeah.

Because they believe in this country so much. And so I just feel like we have a solemn responsibility to make sure we're always being respectful in how we use them. I have to ask about the Ravens. Yeah, man. Because last time we spoke, the Ravens, and I asked you, when's Lamar coming back? And the Ravens at the time were one in five. They've now gone on a four-game win streak.

Say that. And they're five and five. And they're right behind the Steelers. They are. They are. But it's wide open. The division is 100%. What do you live?

The Steelers twice. Well, exactly right. And, you know, if they win, the game break, what is it called? Not the game break. The tiebreaker. Tie-breaker. Thank you. Tie-breaker.

We'll go to the Ravens. Correct. What do you chalk the four-game win streak up to? Is it Lamar coming back? Is it? Yeah. I think it's a few different things. One is it's absolutely Lamar coming back. And it's part of the reason why I know Lamar statistically has not had the same kind of season that he's had last year. But I still think Lamar should be in a MVP conversation only because what is an MVP?

It's a most valuable player. We see how the team performs when he's not on the field. We see how the team performs when he is on the field. If that's not valuable, then I don't know what. it is. A good argument. You know what I mean? So it's like, so I think that, you know, even though he is definitely not the frontrunner or probably even close being the frontrunner, I think he needs to be in the conversation if or no other reason for that reason. So Lamar coming back is, is a big deal. The other thing though that I do think that matters in all this is there is something

about playing like a raven. There's a pride that we have. Yeah. For our team that's like, that's the team of Ray Lewis. That's the team of Ed Reed. You know what I mean? Exactly. Like, that's the team of Terrell Suggs. Yeah. There's a pride that comes when you put on the Ravens uniform. And I do think there was a part of the season that we lost that. That when you run through that tunnel and you walk into the bank, like, like, you're letting these folks know you're about to have a really bad day.

You pick the wrong team to come against a day. So I wish you the best of luck, but it's not going to go well for you. There's a, there's a swagger that came with being. a raven. And I think we're starting to develop that back, where it's like we both have, I think, the best team on paper in the NFL. When you're, I mean, when you have Lamar Jackson, Derek Henry, Zay Flowers, Mark Andrews, Isaiah Likely, DeAndre Hopkins. I mean, like, it's a video game. Yeah, right. You know what I'm saying? Like, it is absolutely a video game when you look at that offense. And then on the, on the defense side of the ball, you got a bunch of horses. You got

Kyle Hamilton, who I still think is probably one of the best defense overall defense. of players in the entire NFL. So, you know, Roquan, Roquan Smith, so you have horses on this team. But more importantly, when they're playing like Ravens, there's not a team in the NFL that can beat us. We just need to make sure we play like Ravens more often than not. Do you have a projection for the Super Bowl? I mean, I imagine you'll say the Ravens.

Yeah, well, I mean, listen, I mean, I'm actually careful only because I've seen this movie before where we start off slow and then we start getting high. And then everyone's like, oh, Ravens, Ravens, Ravens, and then come the playoffs, it just doesn't. And then, yeah. Doesn't work out well. I think the Broncos are playing some really good football. They are. Surprisingly.

Surprisingly, but they're playing really good football. Bownix is actually, like, he's legit. He's him. He's him. He's him, yeah. He is. He is. And I think, in fact, I think last week's game was a really important game when you beat the

Chiefs. Like, there's something almost like psychological about that when you, when you knock off the people who were, you know, and they beat the Eagles. And they beat the Eagles. Super Bowl winners. So they've got real wins under their belt, and they're playing really good football, so it's difficult to bet against them. As much as I hate to say this, you can never discount the Buffalo Bills right now,

and the bill still pissed me off after last year. Both that game and then also that I don't think that Josh Allen was the MVP last year. I think Lamar Jackson was the MVP last year. But the bills are playing real football right now. So I think in the AFC, as much as I'd like to say it's the Ravens, I think the two frontrunners right now are probably the Broncos and the bills. I think in the NFC, you don't have any great teams. You have a bunch of really good teams,

but I think you have to start off with the Super Bowl champs. It's like, you know, the Eagles, for what it's worth, they're not playing great football, but they're doing enough to win. Yeah, they're getting win. I mean, they're eating two. They're getting wins, you know what I'm saying? So it's like you can't deny. the fact that they just play really good, tough, gritty football.

Yeah. And so if I had to make a, if I had to make a bet right now, you're probably looking at a Eagles, Broncos, Super Bowl. Maybe, you know, maybe Eagles, Bill's Super Bowl. Those would be really fun games. That would actually be a really fun game. That would be a fun game. Do you have an MVP frontrunner?

No, you kind of, Lamar's should always be an, I agree. And I'm an Eagles fan, by the way. I think Lamar should always be in the conversation because he's changed the way you play quarterback, just completely changed it. He absolutely has it. It's totally different than it was 10, 20 years ago. It is.

And actually, I think that's the big difference between Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson. I think Josh Allen is a great quarterback. And Josh Allen might be having another... I mean, he's in the conversation. Of course, always. He's one of those guys. He is.

But he's not a transformational quarterback. Lamar Jackson is a transnational quarterback. transformational quarterback. Lamar Jackson changes the game. Lamar Jackson changes the way offenses, changes the way defenses approach every single set. Lamar Jackson is the most difficult person in the NFL to prepare for because who do you put in your scout team? Do you put a wide receiver in his quarterback to try to understand the speed? Do you put a quarterback who is nowhere near as quick and agile as Lamar Jackson? He is this unbelievable combination of having a great touch and also maybe the fastest person that you're going to go against, you know, during that week.

But, I mean, if you say who has probably been an MVP this year, oh, there's some good candidate. You have like Matt Stafford, Matthew Stafford, the Rams is playing out of his mind. And listen, if the Rams keep doing what they're doing, it's difficult not to have him in that, it's difficult not to have him in that conversation. And frankly, if they end up running the table, and they're another one who you've got to watch in addition to Eagles, I actually, I put them in there. it's difficult not to have a conversation with him now

because at that point he'd have two rings. So now you're talking, you know, someone who's in a, not goat, but like... But up there, you know. A real up there conversation. You can't have a conversation without a mass stabbard. So I think that is real. He's having a good year.

You know... Jonathan Taylor as well. Jonathan Taylor's having a good year. I mean, the thing I wonder about Jonathan Taylor is can he sustain for the set? second half. He's had a ridiculous first half of the year. Yeah, yeah. And the cults have had a ridiculous first half of year. And one thing, I don't mean be disrespectful to Daniel Jones, but he has made him look like a good quarterback because I don't

think he's that good of a quarterback. But when you have Jonathan Taylor in the backfield, it's just, you know, everyone now has to, you know, they have to, you know, guard the box, which gives you a lot of opportunity if you're a quarterback. It's just difficult not to be a really good court, not to be a pretty good quarterback in the NFL when you got Taylor in the backfield because you're going to get a lot more opportunities, right? Because people are slamming the box. So he's another one who I think is going to be, is going to be in the conversation. You know, it's interesting, though. I think last year you had some runaway candidates. Like, Josh Allen was a pretty runaway candidate.

Yeah. But the real candidates you had last year, it was really Josh Allen. It was Lamar Jackson. It was Sequin. Yeah. And maybe some people could throw in a Derek Henry because he just had a fantastic year. But I think you had a couple people who just like just rose above it. This year, I think you have a lot more people, kind of similar to the NFL is working this year, where you don't have a team or a handful of teams like, oh, no, they are, they're on head and shoulders. That's a good point.

I think it's kind of the same one in the MVP race. You have a lot of people who could make an argument for it. Yeah. Oh, okay. They're wrapping us. So I will ask my final question. And it's when I referenced earlier, you are so firm on not running for president. You are like absolutely not.

Two questions about that. Yes. Why are you so firm? And I know you want to continue your work in Maryland, but why are you so firm? And if a candidate, or let's just say a president elect comes to you and says, you want to be VP or do you want to work in my cabinet, what would you say to them? Well, I'm firm because it doesn't move me at all. I didn't get into this for that. Like, I just think there's a, there are people who, like, run for office because they're thinking about the next office.

Right. I don't. Like, I'm like, I think about it where when I, um, one of my mentors was Elijah Cummings. Yeah. And, like, that was my guy. And when Elijah Cummings passed away, people who were close to Elijah came up to me and were like, you know, would you consider running for his seat? and I love Elijah Cummings and there's nothing I wouldn't do for that guy

and but I was like I'm just not that wasn't what I was feeling and so I told him I was like no I don't like I'm always gonna honor the congressman but that's not that's not what my heart was telling me that I was supposed to be doing

and so I was a no when I decided I wanted to run for governor I had many people in my life who told me this is the dumbest idea you've ever come up with. Like, it is a real, oh yeah. Wow. Like, you can't win.

You cannot beat the establishment. You cannot beat these people who all have higher name recognition, who all have higher, who have more money, who have this, who have that. They have their constituencies. And you have none of that. And they were trying to convince me not to run. But there was nothing that anyone could have told me not to run.

Wow. So when I am like, if I feel like it's not what I want to do, it's easy for me to say no, because I'm like, that's not what I'm feeling. And that's not why I got in this. Like, I was very clear about what I wanted to do while I wanted to run for governor.

And when I'm locked in on something to say, I am going to do it, there's nothing that anyone's going to tell me to get me to say no. So I'm, uh, the reason that I'm a hard know is like that's, that's just, not you're feeling it.

I'm not feeling it. And I respect that. And I know you're probably going to get that question a million more times. Yeah. But I wanted to hear it from myself. I want it to hear from myself. No, and I think that the fact that Maryland is moving the way that Maryland is moving, it's very humbling.

And I think people around the country are paying attention, that Maryland is just moving different. We're moving at a different speed. We've gone from 43rd in the country in unemployment to now having amongst the lowest unemployment rates in the entire country. Wow. We have amongst the fastest drops in violent crime anywhere in the United States of America throughout our entire state. Like, I get it. And people are like, they're excited about what's happening in Maryland. And that's great.

And I'm thankful for that. but for me, like, there's nothing that anyone can say to get me to run for something that my heart is not feeling. Well, you know, I wish, I think, more politicians had, more politicians had your attitude on running for president because I agree. I think a lot of people just are like, oh, you know, I'm going to run for House or Senate and whatever,

governor to become president one day. And if I'm like, if that's what you're going to do, then just run for president. Yeah, there you go, just throw your eye on the ring. And I'm saying, like, yeah, just run for what you want to run. run for. I mean, the reason I ran for governor is because the issues I wanted to work on, I knew that the governor helped control. That's the reason I didn't run for Congress or the reason I didn't run for any other job because I'm like, I'm not doing this because I'm looking

for a job. I'm doing it because there's the issues that I wanted to work on. Well, I respect it. Thank you for for joining me. Thanks for talking with me, man. It's been really cool. And I appreciate everything you're doing. And you're an example, I think, for a lot of people out there. So, you know, as a young man, looking from the outside in, I appreciate you a lot. And I'm really proud of how you're using your voice, man. Thank you, sir. I appreciate that, man. I'm proud of the leadership that you're showing.

And, again, that you show, don't wait for permission from people. Absolutely right. Don't wait for permission. Just do it. Well, thank you, man. I appreciate it. Thanks, bro.