The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 02/01/2021 - HOUR 1 - Stafford, McVay, Patriots

Episode Date: February 1, 2021

Rams trading for Matt Stafford is all about trusting Sean McVay.Stafford wanted no part of the Patriots.Guest: Scott Pioli Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

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A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes,

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For 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84's big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians,

and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening to The Heard podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday from 12 to 3 Eastern, 9 to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and FS1. Find your local station for the herd at Fox Sports Radio.com or stream us live every day on the IHeartRadio app by searching Heard. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. Oh, here we go on a Monday, live in busy Los Angeles.

This is the herd, wherever you may be and however you may be listening. Fox Sports Radio, Iheart Radio, FS1, where Colin was wrong, where Colin was right, top of next hour. It is officially Super Bowl week. Brady against Mahalms, get to that in about five, six minutes. Joy Taylor is joining me. We've got big NFL franchise moves here. Incredible. I mean, just on a Saturday night, that's what we're doing.

now? Swapping franchise quarterbacks? I'm drinking coffee on a Saturday night, figuring out, yeah, what am I going to watch? What am I going to watch? Pow! I couldn't believe it. Unbelievable. So let's talk about it.

Like this doesn't happen, right? I want you to think about this. Let's frame Jared Goff to the Lions, Matt Stafford, to the Rams. Let's frame this from the Los Angeles side. Not because I live here because of what happened. They use six draft picks, most of them great picks. to move up to get Goff. And then they gave away three draft picks, two first rounders to get rid of him.

Nine draft picks the whole time they paid him. This year they'll have $22 million of dead money. In fact, Jared Goff is a larger cap hit to the Rams this year than their starting quarterback Matt Stafford. And you ask, what the hell are they doing? This is about Sean McVeigh. that tells you how much confidence and how much belief Stan Cronkey, the owner, and less need, to a lesser degree, have in Sean McVeigh. You do not do this unless you've got what you believe is the next Bill Walsh. You do not surrender nine picks, pay a guy a fortune, and take a $22 million cap hit for a guy that's in another uniform.

This is about McVeigh, the belief in the building. We got the right guy. We built a good roster. The quarterback just doesn't work. And I'm going to give you the day. I'm going to give you the day it happened. Many people will say, oh, they lost to the jets. That was the day.

Remember the loss of the dolphins? Miami had eight first downs and they still beat him because golf had, as you recall, four turnovers. No. You know, everything closer to home is more personal. You lose to the jets. You don't talk about them. You're not in the same division.

You lose to the dolphins. They're down in, I mean, it's five-hour flight away. Bois said this, when your brother lives next to you, and he gets a new car every year, that stings. Who lives next to Sean McVan the Rams? NFC West, San Francisco 49ers. Kyle Shanahan is the only thing in the way of best young coach in the NFL is Sean Mc—oh, wait, it's Kyle Shanahan.

He beats him head ahead. Same division. They lost on November 29th to Kyle Shanahan, McVeigh's coaching rival, the 49ers with Nick Mullins. Nick Mullins came down to Los Angeles and all relationships have breaking points. You've been in one, I've been in one. There's a moment, there's a bad dinner, he's inconsiderate, she's mean, it's a breaking point. November 29th. Nick Mullins and Kyle Shanahan beat Jared Goff and the Rams because Goff has two picks and a fumble.

At home, McVey was furious for the first time publicly ripped Goff. And after that game, on the drive home in Los Angeles, McVeigh gets on the phone and he calls Les and Les says, call Stan Cronkey and he says, Stan, do you believe in me? Because we've hit a ceiling. We can't win big. I got you to one Super Bowl. I can't get you to another. Matt Stafford's on the market.

The Niners may have him. Niners wanted him, by the way, too. So this is all about Sean McVeigh, November 29th, losing to division rival, coaching rival Shanahan who beat him with Nick Mullins. Won the Jets loss. It won the Dolphins loss. And those didn't help. But in that moment, McVeigh made a decision and used his power.

He's got it and he deserves it. He's a hell of a young coach, but he used it in that moment. You do not take a $22 million cap hit for a guy not in your roster and trade nine picks, most great, and pay a guy, unless you have Belichick level trust and belief. and your coach. The second part of this, of course, is Matt Stafford. Oh, he is wildly talented. I'm over it. You got to win more games. Arm, yes. Athlete, pretty good. Here's the key. And I'm a little cynical. The one time in his career, he's had a top 10 defense. He went 11 and 5.

He now has a top two defense and camakers and good receivers and a good coach. It's time for Matt Stafford to deliver. I heard forever Tracy McGrady was amazing. The next MJ. Yeah, MJ won. And MJ didn't always have the right coach and the right teammates. It's time for Matt Stafford to deliver. Am I a little cynical?

Yeah. Do I think he's better than golf? Yet better athlete. Better arm. No question. But here's a big part of this. When the L.A. Rams made this move, the odds on Fox Bet. went from 18 and 1

to 13 and 1 to win the Super Bowl. And more importantly, because this is more realistic, the Rams went from third place in their division to first place odds in their division. It was a belief in McVeigh and a feeling they'd hit a ceiling. And now Matt Stafford, I'm rooting for you. I think you'll be better, but prove me wrong.

I've been hearing about your talent for years. Okay, so this morning I am driving to work after, you know, your typical restless night's sleep. I cannot sleep. And Brady and Mahomes is the Super Bowl. And I'm thinking to myself, you know, this is, you know, Tony Romo has a quote here. This is going to be LeBron facing Michael and Jack Nicholas against Tiger Woods. And I thought about this. Tom Brady's the goat, right?

But let's be honest about it. It's due to his accomplishments. He didn't have the arm of an L-Way. He can't run around like Aaron Rogers. He's not as cool as certain guys like Mahomes. But he is the goat because the dude just wins all the time, even when he's behind late in Super Bowls. But remember a few years ago when Aaron Rogers with one Super Bowl,

there was real discussions, real discussions five, six years ago. He's the goat. And you're like, whoa, whoa, wait, time out. Brady's got four. You can't have one. Braves got four and you're the goat. But a lot of legitimate people and media people bought into it. Why?

Because Aaron Rogers throws like a goat should throw. And he moves like a goat should move. And he plays stylistically like a goat should be at quarterback. I mean, Bill Russell, let's be honest, has 11 rings, almost double Michael Jordan. We never even considered him the goat. Why? because aesthetically, stylistically, he didn't even look as good as wilt.

I mean, MJ came along, won half the titles of Bill Russell. But when you watched MJ play, he was cooler, hang time, the hands, the style, the mid-range jumper, the toughness, the guile, that's what a goat should look like.

So we didn't care about overall titles. I mean, I'll be honest with you. If you want to talk to the greatest basketball player ever, I can make an argument. It's Kareem. I looked it up this morning. Kareem's got more points than MJ, more MVP than MJ, more finals appearances, also six titles, more All-Star games, and was a more dominant defensive player. But come on.

Style. Kareem didn't have it. So when I look at Mahomes, I thought about this this morning. if Patrick Mahomes wins Sunday, his second, and he beats Brady head to head, there will be arguments to be made he's the goat. Because he plays like a goat. He throws like the goat. He's cool like the goat.

He's better from behind than he is leading. That's very goatish. And so if he beats Brady Sunday, and I think he will, there will be legitimate people who entertain the goat conversation. We never really even talked about this stuff. I never heard the term used until MJ. Were sports radio hosts in the 60s getting into Wilt Russell goat talk? I mean, I know radio was around in the 60s.

I don't think sports talk was. But there's a way, in our mind, we think greatest looks and plays a certain way. it's not Russell, it's more wilt. It's not bird. It's more MJ cool. And it's not Brady. It's more Mahomes and Rogers. And so if he wins Sunday,

I think you're going to hear it. And I think if he wins a third, that will be enough for half the people, legitimate people, to say, no, it's Mahomes. That left-handed, doesn't look, moves around, 80 yards, that's the goat. And I'll entertain those.

Don't have to agree with them. I'll entertain them. Colin right, calling wrong, top of the hour. So the Matt Stafford thing. Did you hear, I'm sure you did. Did you hear the disrespect he had for New England? Whoa. Talk to the hand.

Matt Stafford said, trade me anywhere except to the best football coach in NFL history. Thoughts on that coming up. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the IHeart Radio app. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media.

Well, somewhere along the way, this plan is. platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next, we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are changed.

tasting something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Little Kim. Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jett. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it, including a recent episode with Mark

Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but yeah, yeah, yeah. But just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack, so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now, so. Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really?

Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many. incredible guests. I'm talking. Trip Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard

watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Keer Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. I saw a picture of Joy and I on the inner web this weekend, and it was like 10 years ago.

Seven. Yeah, you're still radiant. What the hell, what the hell happened to my hair? I think we both look very different But yeah, it's really crazy You came on, I was hosting the morning show in Miami And you couldn't have been nicer Oh, that's so sweet

And sat you were Was I funny, glib and full of information? No, you were like very, you were almost like shy Well, that's who I am. Yeah. When you don't know you, yes. So Matt Stafford reportedly told This is funny, told the Detroit Lions

I'll go anywhere, don't you dare trade me to New England. he's 33 and he wants to win. Why wouldn't he want to go to New England? Now, everybody immediately assumes, oh, it's Matt Patricia. Matt Patricia isn't even a coordinator there. He's like going to be a consultant. He's not even a coordinator in New England.

I mean, maybe it would be weird to be in the building, but I don't know, it didn't seem like Matt Patricia ever had a problem with Matt Stafford. I think he liked him. He had a problem with Darius Lay. He had a problem with other guys. This is about. The system not being nearly as attractive when Tom Brady's no longer part of the system. Everybody always consider this a great job.

Oh, my God, you got to play for New England and Belichick. A system is unbelievable. But Belichick now controls personnel. And they can't draft skill people. And it's cold and it's outdoors. And they got no weapons. They don't spend big money on free agency because they want everybody to take a pay cut. Isn't it funny how attractive the Patriots job looked as a quarterback when Brombrose?

Brady was there. And Brady leaves, A, B, they start losing. C, Matt Stavard's like, I'll go anywhere but New England. Tom bought into the system. It's like Tim Duncan with the Spurs bought into Popovich. Once Duncan left, Kauai Leonard said, this isn't interesting at all. This guy's old and rigid. I don't like him.

You need the star player to buy into the system. Take a pay cut. Go to similar age guys and sell them on the system. Folks, you take Brady out of the system. Matt Stafford's like, last place I want to go. It's like you take gambling out of Vegas. It's just Phoenix with fewer old people. It's just too damn hot five months a year.

So I think it's interesting that of all the places, you know, since Belichick in the last eight to ten years has taken over personnel, they just don't draft as well. Find their stars. And I thought this was interesting. One of the things, I wrote about this in my first book. There's a story behind the story. And Joy and I's job, I think Joyce does it as well as anybody I've ever worked with. People can say things, but what are they really saying? So last Wednesday, Tom Curran, best reporter in Boston on the Patriots,

suddenly reported out of the blue, Patriots will reportedly be, quote, uncharacteristically aggressive this offseason. Hmm, it's interesting. How did that get out? things get out of New England when New England wants things to get out. Why did that story leak? Because they were in trade talks to get Matt Stafford. And the Rams were in trade talks to get Matt Stafford.

And Matt Stafford's agent told him. And the Patriots knowing the Rams are a go-for-it franchise, Jalen Ramsey, Brandon Cox. They are a go-for-it-fran. They'll bring free agents in. They don't care. Stafford like, oh, I like that. Oh, I like that.

And the Patriots don't. So the Patriots leaked it. Oh, this year's different. Oh, no, no. The old way is not. We're going to be uncharacteristically aggressive. They were in a fight to get Stafford. And they knew Stafford was a preferred L.A.

where they've got an offensive coach, where the weather's better. And a go-for-it franchise that makes deals and pays players and never has a problem paying players. They'll give you draft picks all day, but they'll pay players. They'll pay Ramsey. They'll pay Donald. They paid Gurley. They paid golf. They pay Cooper Cup.

They'll pay guys. So the story behind the story, that system, it's funny when Tom leaves. Danny Amadolub is on First Things First this morning. When you see Patriot Way in the dictionary, it's going to be a different. to have Tom Brady's name next to it. None of those coaches threw any passes. None of those coaches caught any passes. None of those coaches made any tackles.

They got guys in the right position because they watch a lot of film and they spend all their time at the facility. But Tom Brady is the Patriot way. And that's the reason why Tom Brady's in the Super Bowl right now and the Patriots aren't. That's kind of harsh. And remember, I'm always considered a Patriot Homer. But when that story leaked last Wednesday to the best Boston Patriot reporter, Why did it get out?

They were fighting for Stafford with the Rams and others. And Stafford smartly chose the franchise with an offensive coach, with a rich owner that will spend big money to get their quarterback help. Joy Taylor with the news. No, no, no, no, no, turn on the news. This is the herd line news. Well, let's dunk on New England some more, shall we? Tom Brady is not the only former Patriot enjoying time with his new team, Gronk, also for surviving in Tampa. And he noted one big difference between the Patriots organization and the

Bucks. Coming here, it's complete 180 for sure. Totally different. I mean, I feel like, you know, the biggest difference is it's just, you know, having the freedom of just, you know, being yourself here in this organization. Now, if Gronk is saying that, because Gronk was always the outlier with the Patriots, like everyone else was kind of, you know, uniform and very corporate. And Gronk never really stopped being full Granc. The Granc Cruz and, you know, he's dancing everywhere and the glasses and kind of being himself. So if he felt like he couldn't be himself and he was the most outlier of that organization during that time, there was really a lot going on there.

I know everyone is kind of piling on the Patriots right now and that's just how it is. Like people want to see you do good but not too good. And the Patriots did too good for too long. Yeah. And I mean, listen, anytime you get a divorce, people take sides. in a non-sports divorce. Somebody sides with the wife, somebody sides. And then the reality is the gap between what happened is so massive.

Brady throws 47 touchdown passes. The Patriots throw 10. You know, if it would have been 26 to 20, it wouldn't be this. But the gap between this iconic team and this iconic player is so great, it's much safer to be on the Brady side right now. Yes, it is. The gap is bigger. The styles are bigger.

the environments, the difference is so much wider. And it's the bucks. You couldn't have actually picked more polar opposite organizations unless maybe he went to the Raiders. You know, it's funny, Andy reads on our show tomorrow. I was thinking about Bruce Ariens too. We'll try to get him on. The one thing where Ariens and Brady actually work really well is that because Aryans is looser. And Arians can be loose.

but Tom tends to be much more of a creature of habit and tight and restrained. And that's a good mix. It's almost like, you know, dad's so mean, but mom's fun. You can't have two mean parents. And then you can't have two parents who are party all the time parents. There's got to be like, you know, dad, we've got to get home. But mom lightens it up. Ariens and Brady have a very interesting mix of personalities.

And clearly it works for the star players in Tampa. I think it also works because Arians isn't young. and while he's never won a Super Bowl as a head coach, he has it as an assistant. And we know he's good. Yeah. Brady's not young. So it's not one of those situations where like maybe if it was a younger coach, he might be more inclined to like lean towards Brady's way and abandon his style. So they're both kind of set.

So there's a little bit of flexibility there because they trust each other, which we didn't think was happening in the beginning of the season. That's right. We thought in the first eight weeks, Ariens Brady was a bad mix. And then you're like, no, it kind of works. I don't know if it's going to work for, you know, the next 20 years. Right. Or Sunday. Well, we'll see.

I mean, to me, they got there. That's a massive accomplishment in itself. So the Texans have made it clear that they have no plans to trade Deshaun Watson, but he still wants out. And over the weekend, he made some updates to his social media pages and took out the references to his current team. All of them? He changed his profile picture from one on the field in his uniform to one of him in normal

clothes. And he updated his Instagram description to simply say, athletes. Now, David Cully is the new head coach of the Texans. He said he is a Houston Texan and I want him to be a Houston Texan. And the reason I'm in this position today is because I knew he is going to be a Houston Texan. He's an athlete. This is very significant. This is a significant thing.

When you remove references of something or someone from your social media, it's sending a massive message. If I ever go to on my page, Sportscaster, assume I'm pissed at my boss. It's totally true. I mean, he's sending a message, but it's not a message that we didn't already hear loud and clear. I think he's just pouring a little bit on for the Texans to let them know he really wants out of there. I don't, I hope this doesn't get ugly. Like, I hope the Texans just accept that they botched this completely and move on, but.

It's not like they couldn't get the farm for him. I'm going to talk about this later. Yeah. No, they absolutely can. You're not going to get, okay. I'm going to make an argument. I'm going to say that you're not going to get full value for Deshaun Watson. But I'm going to make an argument in the next 20 minutes and see if you buy it.

I'm going to make you a really good argument. Okay. And by the way, you always feel you don't get full value, but can you get close? If they make the right trade, then yes, I think they can. But I'll wait until you tell me. Finally, did you see the end of the Wizards' Nets game? I did not. It was all over social media last night.

So it looked like the Wizards were on their way to their fifth straight loss. came back and stunned the Nets last night. So they're down by five. Beale hits a three-pointer with eight seconds to go. Then Washington stole the inbound pass, and Westbrook made his own three to take a one-point lead. The Nets had a chance to take the lead back, but missed a layup with just seconds remaining,

and then Beale made the final two free throws to steal the win, 149, 146. But it was just crazy sequence. I was happy for the Wizards, though. They've been going through it. The past couple of games, Beals putting up 40 every single night. Oh, God.

He had 37, six rebounds and four assists last night, and Russell Westbrook had 41, 10, and 8. Also, head coach, Scott Brooks, had a funny quote after the game. He said, it was the first game all year. I had a white claw. I wanted to enjoy it. It's a good feeling. So he's, you know, he treated himself to a little adult beverage afterwards.

But it was a really fun way to end that game. Obviously, the Wizards are having one of those seasons. Some of those Bradley Beal highlights. Oh, my God. God, he's talented. You know what? Everyone knows how amazing Bradley Bill is, but this season, it's really starting to show just how absolutely incredible he would be able to be with a contender. Because he is just, I mean, he's putting up 40 points every single night and they're losing. Like, how much more do you need around you? Yeah, good stuff. Joy with the news.

Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Hurd Lie News. Got so much stuff. It is interesting. Colin Wright, telling her on top of the hour. Scott Pioly was the GM, three Super Bowl champions with the Patriots. He was a five-time executive of the year. He now works for the NFL network over 27 years in the front office. You don't win executive of the year five times unless you know what you're doing. And by the way, he left New England a while ago, and their drafting has not been the same. Let's be honest. We've been on this now for four years. The last 10 years, they don't have an

offensive pro bowler at a skill position. Scott joins us live. brought you by Mercedes-Benz, the best or nothing. So it's really, I want to talk, Scott. First of all, thanks for coming on the show. Thank you so much for doing that. I love that. Thank you, Scott. No, thank you for having me, Colin.

Great to be here. So, you know, it's interesting. All my friends, Saturday night, we're all on FaceTime, we're going crazy on this trade, and everybody's like, man, they gave up all these first-round picks, but it's interesting. If you look at the scouting department for the Rams,

they have done a really good job. Second, third, fourth, fifth, starters everywhere. So it tells me, A, they were over Goff, but it also tells me the Rams have incredible confidence in their scouting department to give up first round picks. That's my takeaway on it. What was your takeaway on it? Well, I think that they had to give away the picks in the first place because in order to unload that contract, the Goff contract, you were going to have to give up a lot in return. So they've done a good job. They've had to use all, methods of player acquisition, Colin. So yes, they've done a fair job in the middle rounds and in the

second round third round. They've done a fair job. But again, let's remember the best player on their football team was a first round pick in Aaron Donald back in 2014. So it's a dangerous way to build your roster. They trust their system, but we're going to see how this goes. You know, part of the fact is they keep going in, right? In 2018, the Rams had to go all in and make some transactions. And, trades and signs of free agents, spend a lot of cash in order to get players and make some trades. So as much as they have confidence in their drafting acumen, I think that there's also this realization that they have to go outside of the draft to acquire players that are going to be good enough to help them win or compete for a championship.

Now, listen, we know Matt Stafford's talent. He was the number one high school player. He was great at George. I watched him for three years. I've watched him in the NFL. But I said this last week. There are players that I hear about their talent. I used Tracy McGrady in the NBA.

I heard for years he was better than Kobe. He was better than Michael, and I'm like he never won a playoff series. Chris Paul aesthetically didn't have the glamour, the hops. Chris Paul just wins everywhere. At some point, you've got to win games. Stafford is talented. But Scott, I'm over it.

Okay, I got 12 years, four winning seasons. I'm not even asking him to beat Aaron Rogers or the Super Bowl. Just beat the Bears. And Scott, I am a little worried. He has struggled to win big games. Is that a fair criticism? It's a fair question. I don't know if it's a fair criticism yet because we're going to find out in the next couple of years whether or not it's an actual fair criticism. Because, again, if you look at some of the dysfunction that has existed in Detroit, and I'm not, and that's not, you know, trying to cover up all of the mistakes that Matthew has made at different times.

He is a very talented quarterback. I think he's a winner as a person. I think he gets it. Everything that I've seen of him, I think he has a chance. He has had a lot of different. in terms of the team he's been surrounded with. And again, also, Colin, the truth is stability within an organization is such a critical thing, especially for young quarterbacks. And a lot of his youth was wasted by a lot of instability. So again, I hear the questioning and the criticism, but I think we're going to find out right now real soon. So, you know, there's always been this, I remember talking Scott Pioly joining us five-time exec of the year. There was this, I talked to a college athletic director once, and he said, listen, if my coach wants another job,

I don't want him in the building. And I thought, well, you got a contract, keep him in the building if he's great coach. And I think to myself, Deshawn Watson's like out. He is emotionally gone. If you ran that franchise, do you just try to save it, get four first round picks and a good player? Do you want him in the building? I try to save it, Colin. I mean, I try to save the player and keep the player.

Because again, you just made a really important point. You know, six months ago, Deshawn Watson signed a contract. He consciously made a decision to be with an organization that had leadership at the top in terms of ownership and the other leaders that he accepted a contract to make him the second highest paid player in the history of the game. So again, those are the rules of engagement in the National Football League. He signed the contract, you know, as Hyman Watson in Godfather, too, this is the business we've chosen. is the choice that he made. This is the business he's chosen. Those are the rulings of engagement. You don't say, ah, do over. I want out now. Now, I say that from a business perspective, but then there's the reality and the nuance of the relationship. And I know David Cully. I know

Nick Cicero. I hired Nick Cicero in 2001 as an entry-level scout. David and Nick are two of the finest people I've met in my 27 years in the National Football League. Deshawn Watson is also one of the most incredible people. I think and I hope that at some point Deshaun gets a grip of his emotions and says, let me show a little bit of grace here because I have this obligation. Let me see if I can coexist with this new leadership. Because it sounds to me, Colin, that his beef is with the people that are outside of Nick and David. And truthfully, the people that have the greatest influence over him and this franchise in the coming years are Nick and David Culley. So that, that, that, that, That's my quick take on it.

Scott Pioli joining us. I've had this theory for years. Joyo laughs at me. I say egos meant the male ego ruins dynasties. You know, everybody wants credit or, and, you know, that's just the way it works, right? It's everybody gets rich and everybody wants credit. I saw the Lakers, you know, you got Riley and Phil Jackson and Jerry West and they're all brilliant. And, you know, you see, it just blows up.

So I look at New England. And I know Belichick's great. I'm not disputing that. But the more they've won. the more power he's exerted in personnel. And it's impossible to be a great GM and a great coach. They're just two incredibly difficult jobs. And I look at Matt Stafford, according to a story saying,

I'll go anywhere except New England. And I think to myself, Scott, Brady made that system look really darn nice. But you take Brady out of it and it's cold and it's outdoors and they don't spend big money and they have no weapons. Do we have to be a little honest here? We know Bella checks great. I'm not disputing that. But he has too much damn power in that organization now,

and he needs to relinquish some of it. You know, it's interesting. I want to go back to the first part of what you're leading into, Colin, is one of my favorite sayings of all time is success has many fathers and failure as an orphan. I think when JFK said, he said failure is a bastard. But there's so much truth to that. And keeping egos and checking,

keeping people is, you know, and I'll tell you this, for this franchise, for what they've done, I know people are trying to make this now, was it Bill, was it Brady? And to me, I hate hearing that conversation because it was one of the greatest runs in the history of sports. And to me, it's insulting to both of the parties involved to get into that conversation. Was it more Bill? Was it more Brady? And why can't we just embrace that it was one of the greatest partnerships? This is the most team-oriented game, I believe, in all of sports. And to force people, again, I don't mean to digress here, but this is one of the greatest problems we have in our country is the divisiveness. And why can't we just enjoy and embrace the unity that was something special and just say, hey, they both served one another so well. Bill is the greatest coach of all time.

Tommy's the greatest quarterback of all time. And just leave it at that. I wouldn't have a show then. Geez, Scott, I wouldn't be, I wouldn't have content. Yeah, you would. You're too smart. Come on. All right.

Scott Piole, NFL network analyst. Pleasure to have you on the show. I'd love to have you on again. Thanks so much, Scott. Please do, Colin. I'd love to be back. Thank you. Thank you very much.

Yeah, it is, um, it's, uh, these, it was so public. You know, Bill and Tom was so public. Think about this. Think about how popular like college football is. And if you look at the data of the metrics, NFL is like six times more popular. And it's so big, you know, it's the Hollywood marriage. Like everybody, you know, the farmer can get divorced. Nobody talks about it outside the community, right? Like in small towns. But when you have these public divorces, these Hollywood divorces, and Belichick was iconic,

and Brady's iconic, and they separate, and there's a huge gap in the production six months later. And it's like, wow. I mean, I've thought about this multiple times as I talk about this. I don't want to sound like a complete idiot because I know Bill's the best coach I've ever seen. I'm not moving off that. What I'm moving into is I don't like him as a general manager at all. Well, yeah, but we've been on that for a while now. Now it's being exposed. Right.

They don't have any players on the offensive side. But the question is, whose side are you taking in the long term? Like you said, it's very easy and safe to be on Brady's side. Yeah, today, there is no courage saying Tom won. My guess is in four years when New England figures out when Bill is going to have another tough season next year, Robert Kraft will come in and say, hire a real GM. He will. They'll have a draft or two, and they'll hit, and they'll get better.

Because they just lost out on the Stafford sweepstakes, and they were in it. So Bill coaches for another 10 years, you think? Four. I think, listen, people keep saying they'll turn it around. You can't win in this league without a quarterback. Bill's had eight years without Brady. Six losing and one didn't make the playoffs. And that's Bill.

I mean, at this point, now he has to make another Super Bowl, right? I don't know. I can still be considered the best coach ever, but you're going to look at that dynasty and lean towards it was more Brady than. By the way, did you see the 49ers were on the Matt Stafford deal? So that tells me Garapolo's going

to New England. That's the second story I've seen from a legitimate reporter. Niners, it's not golf intense, but they're over Garoppolo. Long term, they're over. And by the way, Garapolo loses all his trade value with one more injury.

So if you're going to trade Garoppolo, what you want to do is draft a quarterback and he's a backup until the trading deadline. Because if you play Garapolo and late September he's hurt, you'll get nothing for him. If Shanahan brings him back and he's great from September and early October, then you can get a first or a second rounder for Garaplo. Gets hurt, you get nothing. It's a big chess game. It really is. Coming up next, I'll propose a Deshaun Watson trade, not to the Jets, to an interesting team and an interesting coach. who I think has the power to do it.

Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'll say it. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions,

my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, the Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, This is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim?

Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jek. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack.

So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Trip Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough.

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Search Learn the hard way and listen now. Andy Reid's on the show tomorrow. Boy, he said, you know, you just do good work long enough. It's masonry. Almost every business is masonry. You just keep putting the brink. bricks down, one after another, after another, after another.

And Andy Reid's in the business for 45 years, and they get Mahomes. It's just a matter of time. People get frustrated. Just keep doing the work. I tell young broadcasters all the time. You're not going to get paid anything in your 20s. You're not going to get any respect until your mid-30s. You may not make any money to your mid-40s. Just keep laying the bricks down. If you do good work, people notice. And Andy Reid's on the show tomorrow, his last 10, it could be the opposite of Belichick. Belichick's first 10 were great. First 20 were great. His last five or six could be choppy without Brady.

Andy Reid had a lot of critics. How about his last 10 with Mahomes? I mean, that's, I'm always happy when I know people are committed to something. And they're undervalue. They don't quite get the love. The series of bad breaks. There is bad luck. People have bad breaks.

And then all of a sudden at the end of their career, boom, they hit. Andy reads one of those. And it's like he wasn't successful. He got to a Super Bowl. He dominated the NFC. But it's like, boom, he deserves it. All right, here we go. So everybody says, you can't trade Jared Goff.

That was where I said two weeks ago. And the Ram said, hold my beer. You can trade anybody. You can trade anybody. Deshawn Watson wants out of Houston. Everybody's like, ah, you can't get rid of him. Okay, so let me just propose this to America and Joy. So in order to make this work, the reason Goff is gone is because McVeigh had the respect and power in the building.

You can't give up golf for that without everybody thinking the coach will figure it out. So who has the most power in the NFL outside of probably Belichick and Andy Reid today? Who has the longest contract? John Gruden. Gruden's got eight years left. He has a direct pipeline to Mark Davis. Mark Davis fascinated with Gruden. Mike Mayock, in the building, Gruden gets final say.

So outside of Andy Reed and Belichick, in fact, contractually, a greater degree, John Gruden has the most power in the NFL. So there's a lot of good quarterbacks in the NFL. Dak Prescott's good. Matt Ryan's good. Kirk Cousins good. Derek Carr good. They don't win Super Bowls.

Great does. Raiders call up. Four first round picks, Derek Carr and tight-end Darren Waller, second-best tight-end in the sport. You don't think the Texans would listen. You can win a lot of games with Derek Carr. You can win a lot. Colts don't have a quarterback. Jag's going to have a rookie.

You can win a lot of games in that division with Derek Carr, Darren Waller, and four first-round picks. What do the Texans have to do? The Texans have to get cap space relief, and they need draft picks to rebuild. You get all of them, plus the second best tied-in on the planet. There are Sundays, he's the best tied-in on the planet. You don't think you take the phone call? Do you want to have a guy in the building that doesn't want to be there? People always say you don't get equal value.

I'm not saying there is equal value, but if I got four first, first round picks. Folks, Jared Goff, the Rams gave up six picks to get him and three to get rid of him. Nine. You don't think Deshawn Watson's worth four first round picks and Darren Waller? And it's not like you're sticking me with some, you know, tomato can. I get Derek Carr. Didn't Derek Carr leave the NFL in completion percentage?

He wins a lot of games. And the Rams, by the way, have, they've got offensive. personnel they could throw in. They've got a great running back, a great tight end, multiple receivers. They have a way above average offensive line throwing your right tackle. Just throwing it out there. Everybody always tells me, oh, you can't make a deal. I've been doing this for 30 years. There's always a deal to make. Just depends on what you offer. There's always a deal to make. Am I nuts on this? It's not. Not at all. That would make that division very interesting. Yeah, let's not. If it goes to the Raiders. I think Derek Carr is better than Kirk Cousins.

I think Derek Carr today is better than Matt Ryan slightly. He and Dak Prescott are close. Well, the equal value is this idea that you're going to get Deshawn Watson back in a trade. Surfously, that's how everyone looks at trades. Who won this trade? Did you get this? Did you get that? Is this player bad?

Just because a player is traded doesn't mean that he is bad at all. Jared Gough was just playing in a Super Bowl. Now, I don't think Jericho is playing at the level he was playing that year, but he was still just playing in a Super Bowl a few years ago. Yeah, Goff can play. The question is, what's he going to look like with Dan Campbell? But there's fit. Well, yeah, I mean, look, like similarly to the Belichick-Brady conversation,

it's much safer to be on the Stafford-Rams side of this trade than it is with Goff. I think it's going to be a rough time for him there. But my point is the equal value conversation is you want to get the same thing in the trade. That's not how trades work. Sometimes you need something. Another team needs something else. Cap space picks. There's not a fit.

There's all kinds of things to go into. There's more nuance than that. Scott Piole, by the way, was just on. If I recall, I could be wrong. Piole last year said Detroit should draft Herbert. I should have asked him that. I think he did. Well, if he did say that, he was very right.

Colin Wright, Colin wrong on a Monday. We're loaded today. Jimmy Johnson, the Hall of Fame or two next hour. One more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week, within the IHeart Radio app. Search heard to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like.

Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an

a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to Humor Me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying.

Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Cliver Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes,

follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84's big to me. I'm Sam Jay. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived

it with our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.