The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 02/05/2021 - HOUR 1 - Joy And Revenge, Patience Is Not A Virtue, Joe Thomas

Episode Date: February 5, 2021

In this hour of The Herd with Colin Cowherd, there is one emotional outcome following a Super Bowl win that Colin sees for each quarterback. For Kansas City quarterback Patrick Mahomes, it's about building a joyful legacy that includes teammates and coaches. For Tampa Bay quarterback Tom Brady, it's about showing former coach Bill Belichick and his old Patriot team that they disrespected him by saying goodbye. Also, it's becoming more evident that as athletes seem to mature faster in professional sports, patience is no longer a virtue. Finally, college football Hall of Fame member, former Cleveland Browns tackle and current NFL analyst Joe Thomas stops by. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Find your local station for the herd at Fox Sports Radio.com or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Herd. Fox Sports Radio. Ah, here we go on a Friday. in Los Angeles, it's the hurt. You can eat outdoors here now. It's something special. Wherever you may be and however you may be listening, Fox Sports Radio, IHeart Radio, and FOS.

One, yes, it was chilly last night, eating outdoor with my wife and friends, but it was eating outdoors nonetheless. It's just a new world. It's a new world here. Chicken farm? Darn right. A little linguine and chicken farm. And an espresso.

Joy Taylor is joining me. I'll have my Super Bowl pick in one hour from now. We've got great people on the show today. Carson Palmer, Malcolm Jenkins, Joe Thomas, and Joy, of course. So I'm going to start the show, Joy, today with respect. Guys are funny about this. Maybe it's all that testosterone, but respect's a big deal for guys. I don't know if it is for women.

Is it for women? Oh, yes, very. At least for me. All right. You're very competitive. You're athletic and you're very professionally driven. Not to say you have some guy. in you, but I'm saying is...

No, respect is a big thing, though. Yeah. It's very important. For guys, it's crazy. You can be rich. You can own the world. And then you still have this little chip on your shoulder from like 20 years ago because you didn't get drafted where you should be drafted. Respect never goes away. If you got disrespected by somebody, it doesn't matter how big your bank account is,

what your trophy case looks like. It's with you forever. There was a moment in that documentary, Tom versus Time. Remember that? I mean, it wasn't the MJ doc, but it was. pretty darn good. And the moment in the dock that stuck with me more than any singular moment was not about Tom Brady. It was about Giselle, his wife. She's in the car, and they're interviewing her, and Tom allowed this to make it into the documentary, because Tom had final

editing approval, right? And Giselle says, you know, he just wants to feel like respected. You know, he just wants to feel appreciated. That does not go over. way. This is about Belichick for Brady. Let's think about Monday. If Mahomes wins, it's about so many things. It's

about him becoming a top 10 quarterback of all time. It's about him going MVP, Super Bowl, Super Bowl in three years. It's the risky business for Tom Cruise moment for Mahomes. It's, oh, Tom Cruise is great. Then he did risky business in the underwear, and it's like, oh, he's an I

Mahomes goes from great to All-timer. Top 5. Elway, Marino, Montana, Brady, Manning, Mahomes. For Mahomes, this game is legacy-defining and brand-altering and discussion-changing. We'll never talk about quarterbacks the same. For Tom Brady, he wins. You know what we say Monday?

He's stuck at the Belichick. they really stuck into Belichick. A Mahomes win does not discount anybody else's legacy. If Brady wins, even all think a little less of Bill. One team is playing for joy. One player is playing for revenge. When Giselle is allowed in that, and by the way, that's what you see. when the wife's saying that to the camera,

what are the discussions like at home between Tom and Giselle? That was the filtered version without the blankety blank and blankety blank and blank that guy and blank this system. Mahomes is still trying to figure out where he's going to land in the big quarterback discussion. Tom's there. He's at the top. He's not going to go on top of the top. goat. 25 years from now, Brady's 6 will still be discussed more than Brady's 1 in Tampa.

This one, though, at the bar with your buddies will be the one where, God, he really stuck it to New England. To me, if Mahomes win, if he wins, it's about a lot of people winning. It elevates Andy Reid's legacy. the Hunt family. Roger Goodell has a new face of the league and a dynasty. It's about Mahomes. It's about Travis Kelsey. It's about this proud city.

The next dynasty is smack dab in the middle of America. There's a lot of winners. If the Buccaneers win, it's about Tommy getting over on Belichick. There are so many topics. if the Chiefs win. It's a much easier show for me. I could talk about Andy Reed for segments and Mahomes for segments and a dynasty's

all time. If Brady wins, I can tell you what the first segment is. Brady here, Belichick Underim, System, give me a break. One's planned for joy, one's plan for

revenge. But when I think of all the images of Tom, and I don't think this means there's anything less. I remember DeflateGate. We found text. He was talking about Peyton Manning. It's how we operate as guys. We hold grudges, high school. We have bad dreams, nightmares. We age more quickly. We die sooner. We hold this stuff in. We don't communicate like women. Women go to the bathroom together to talk. Guys go to the bathroom. We don't even look at each other. Women have a race for the cure. We don't have a race for the prostate.

Just who we are. We hold grudges. We're pettier. It's that respect thing. And when Giselle said, he just wants to feel appreciated. What were the discussions at home like? Don't kid yourself.

Bill's not rooting for Tom. And Tom is looking to get over on Bill. and I'm here for all of it. All right, where I saw the Hunt family is a great NFL family. And he was talking about, Mahomes has a little Jordan feel to him. And he was saying, you know, it's amazing.

Patrick had so much success early in his career, as great as Michael was. It took a few years before he won his first championship. He goes, Patrick is so far ahead of where we thought he would be. The difference, of course, is that not only was Michael Jordan great, but Rodman was the best rebounder in the game, Phil Jackson was the best coach in the game,

Tony Kuko was the best European in the game, Steve Kerr was the best shooter in the game, Scotty Pippen was the best Robin to a Batman in the game. It was easy to pick Michael Jordan. He was surrounded by so much. But let's think about this Kansas City team Sunday. Their defense, total defense, ranked 16th, right in the middle of the league. Their run game is ranked 16th, right in the

middle of the league. Sacks their 19th. Offensive line this morning is the second best one in that game Sunday. If you are picking Kansas City, you're just picking the early Michael Jordan. You're picking Michael to just beat the Celtics, the Pistons, the Lakers. Tampa's got the better defensive line this morning. That's not arguable. Tampa's got the better offensive line this morning due to injuries. Tampa's got the better linebackers. Tampa's at home. Tampa currently has the better run game. They have the better pass rush. All of it, Tampa. Better roster, deeper roster. If you like Kansas City, then you are betting on Patrick Mahomes and Andy Reed. And oh, I get it. Because a year ago, San Francisco, in my opinion, had the better roster. And I liked Garoppolo. And I love

Shanahan, and they still couldn't win, because Kansas City scored 21 points in five minutes and five seconds. The most complete roster doesn't win Super Bowls. In fact, let's look at this year. If you ask me the most complete roster in the NFL, I would say the New Orleans Saints. Hell, they've got a third quarterback I like a little bit. That's the best roster in the league. Oh, they've been gone for weeks. I actually think the second best roster in the NFL, even with Jared golf was the Rams. They'll just draft the best player available. They don't have an absolute need, especially now they have Stafford. They don't have something they have to draft. Their secondary is great. Their D-line's great. Their O-line ranked third PFF. The receivers are amazing. Tight-end running

back cam anchors. Those teams are long gone. And the Buccaneers, in my opinion, probably have the third best roster in the National Football League. And it guarantees absolutely nothing. Now I can see them winning. It's called the 2007 Super Bowl, where the flashy Patriots, Randy Moss, Wes Welker, and all those points came in. And the New York Giants defensive line just wore down, wore down even Dante Scarnacki as Patriot offensive line. They just wore them down. and in the end, Giants made a big play and upset those unbeaten Patriots. There's no question, that's possible. In fact, the wise guys, the Sharps in Vegas, jumped on Tampa plus three and a half.

That's the game they mostly envision. The early betters is that D-line just doing a Giants on the Patriots and controlling the Kansas City Chiefs. but boy it is hard to bet against Reed and Mahomes and special in almost half their drives in the playoffs almost half the chiefs have scored a touchdown that doesn't make any sense it's incredibly difficult to bet against special I remember when the Miami Heat worked great

and you had Bosch and LeBron and Wade and they had no size they had no size like Joel Anthony was a center he was 6'8 They weren't very good at point guard. Point guards always matter in the finals. They had a new kid coach, Spolstra. Their bench was hit and miss. At times they were too old.

LeBron and Wade didn't even perfectly fit together. Bosch's game got marginalized. Hey, Chris, 25 a game? Go out in the perimeter and shoot jumpers. But it was special. They'd go through these six, seven, eight-minute spurts, and you're like, yeah, this is special. That's Kansas City.

Hard to bet again. So I'll give my pick. in 50 minutes. Really interesting article by Mike Silver, who sometimes I agree with sometimes I don't, about the Brady effect how Tampa went all in with a get-rich-quick scheme that paid off handsomely.

Let's get Tom and let's get stars. And will it change the league? Interesting to think about that from at least one angle. That's coming up. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd. weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games.

Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds, I was having trouble stopping the muscle great. Listen to Superhuman on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defining the odds.

Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup,

he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nass would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying.

He running up the court, licking his fingers, why he got the ball, like, After you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I went and sat on the little ottoman in front of him. Hi, Dad. And just when I said that, my mom comes out of the kitchen.

She says, I have some cookies and milk. This is this badass convict. Right. Just finished five years. I'm going to have cookies and milk at mom. Yeah. On the Ceno Show podcast, each episode invites you into a raw, unfiltered conversations about recovery, resilience, and redemption. On a recent episode, I sit down with actor, cultural icon, Danny Trail, talk about addiction, transformation, and the power of second chances.

The entire season two is now available to bench, featuring powerful conversations with the guests like Tiffany Addish, Johnny Knox, and more. I'm an alcoholic. And without this trouble, I'm going to die. Open your free IHAR radio app. Search the Cito Show. And listen now. The story I've told myself about love or relationships can then shape my behavior.

And that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast deeply well with Debbie Brown and explore the journey of healing, self-discovery, and returning to yourself. We explore higher consciousness, emotional well-being, and the practices that help you find clarity, peace, and self-mastery in a world that can feel overwhelming. The world is becoming lonelier. We're not becoming more social and connected. We're becoming more individualized, but we actually meet people in connection.

If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole. This podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Interesting article by Mike Silver. Sometimes I agree with them. Sometimes I don't. But it's called the Brady Effect. He writes a story talking to multiple general managers and coaches in the NFL regarding, as he calls it, a get rich quick scheme that paid off handsomely. Let's blow it all up, bring in old Brady and see if it works. Relentless is the best word to describe Tom, said Jason Light, the GM for the Buccaneers.

There's some fascinating quotes here. John Snyder, Seattle GM says, listen, there's a lot less patience than there used to be. I think more people are going to move around and go for it. There's another anonymous executive that says teams are seeing quarterbacks increasingly as commodities like every other position. They're no longer sacred cows. You're good fast or you're gone. And it's interesting. Let's look at the organizations that have been patient with their starting quarterbacks.

The Bears and Mitch Trubisky, Jacksonville and Blake Bordels, Tennessee for four years, Marcus Marietta, Tampa and James Winston. What did it get you? It's why Baker Mayfield has yet to get a contract extension and, you. Josh Allen will. Same class. Why? What's Baker done? He's kind of short, not crazy athletic.

What is patience getting you? It took him two years just to frankly grow up. You hope he continues in that direction with the maturity. Fair or not, Sam Donald's probably done in New York. Show me where patience, it's like television shows. If by the middle of the second year, You're not gaining traction. You're off the air.

And the NFL is the number one television show. Quarterback should be better. They should be. They have elite 11 camps. They throw 10,000 passes by the time they're 11 years old. People will go out and say, what about Josh Allen, Buffalo? What about him? Pay attention.

The last 12 games of year two, he had 17 touchdowns and three picks and the best arm in football. Yeah, he can throw it further than Patrick Mahomes. And he's 6'6, he's bigger than Patrick, and bright runs just. as fast as Patrick. Josh Allen wasn't somebody you had to be patient with. Five games into a second year, by game six, you're like, whoa, whoa. Baker's short, Josh is big. Baker's semi-athletic.

Josh is a stud. That's why Baker can't get a contract extension. Why? What's the pay? Sean McVeigh. Okay, I'm in year three with you. You're still turning the ball over. I'm out.

Kyle Shanahan and Garoppolo, three and a half. half years. You've missed 23 starts. We've seen two stories. He's out. Kansas City, stop being patient with Alex Smith, Super Bowl. Joe Flackle was fine in Baltimore. They got impatient. Lamar Jackson. They're winning more. Tennessee was 9 and 7, 9 and 7, 9 and 7, 9 and 7. Got impatient, got Danahill. They're better. No more coddling quarterbacks. You should be better. You're getting more staps in your teens. show me where patience works.

And don't give me Josh Allen. He was great by the middle to the end of the second year. He was putting up big touchdowns, few picks, running around, 6-6, huge arm, hyper-athletic, couldn't stop him and got to the playoffs at 10-and-6. And that's a big deal for Buffalo. We're not talking Packers here. Okay, that's a 10-6 for the bills. Second year, Brady was still in the division.

That's a thing. Joy Taylor with the news. No, no, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. Well, Tom Brady is obviously with the Bucks now, and his relationship with Patriots owner, Robert Kraft, is still going strong. Brady's back in the Super Bowl,

and Kraft is hoping that he gets to raise the Lombardi trophy for the seventh time. He said, I'm rooting for Tom Brady. I'm so excited. We've had some great communications, and he is such a special human being. We were privileged to have him here for two decades, and he's one of the finest human beings I've ever met. He knows how to lead, and I wish him well. I really hope he wins Sunday.

Because you know what, Bob's legacy, unlike Belichick, isn't crafted by Tom's success. So he is unselfishly rooting for him because it's all about friendship. He already won that. He already elevated. His net worth went up $800 million due to Tom. Robert Kraft said I would very much like to be excluded from this narrative. He wants no parts of this future documentary about how he's. He was also rooting against Tom Brady, who did all those things that you just mentioned for his organization.

No, he wants no parts of this. But I also think he genuinely does care about Tom Brady, and he doesn't need the validation. That's right. Robert Kraft was a great owner during that dynasty. He did not meddle. He let Belichick do what he needed to do. The only time he intervened was with Jimmy Garapolo, and it turned out to be the right thing. So, like, whenever we look back on this dynasty, Robert Kraft,

not going to be the problematic part of this dynasty. No, he's smartly moved. He is just friends with Tommy and loves Tommy. But even before that, like everything that has led up to this, like they didn't win in spite of him. That's right. And now that the narrative is becoming, who's winning this divorce,

so, you know, the Patriots relevant, what's going on with Tom Brady and Bill Belichick, he is firmly planting himself, and this has nothing to do with me. I have no problem with Tom Brady. I wish him well. I'm not competing against him or rooting against him. That's the right thing to do.

I do think it's genuine as well. Look, we're all watching all the time when it comes to these big brands and big names and Dynasty and who played a role. And this is a very petty situation. So I see what you're doing. And I like it, I like it, even if it is genuine. So rumors that Andrew Luck may come out of retirements and play for the Colts again have been running wild this week.

It's very kind of bizarre story. But Jim Ursay doesn't want fans to get their hopes up. And he's shutting down any reports that Luck could be making a comeback. He said he's more retired now than he was a year and a half ago. He's definitely, he definitely is retired and there's no wiggle room or rumor or anything as much as people would like to hear that. Believe me, I wish it was true. And I was hiding some big announcement, but that's just not the case. That feels right to me.

I think Andrew's so unique. We talked about this yesterday. I just think Andrew is one of those guys. He's not a look back guy. He was never, his life wasn't framed by football. He loved. He always had interests out. side of football. He was also, I think, the way that he retired, that was a big, dramatic

decision to make. And because his personality is the way that he is, I never felt like this was a flippant decision. But I also tend when it comes to football to believe guys when they say they were retired. Like, I thought Gronk was done. Yeah. I think, by the way, Gronk was done. Yeah. I think the only reason he came back is because Tom went to New England, I mean, to Tampa Bay. And a warm weather place where his buddy's leaving. Exactly. And it's probably only going to be for one year. So that's a, it's an outlier situation. But look, the story was a little sketch to begin with. It's like screenshots and this person who knows this person who knows this person kind of situation. Again, to Andrew Luck's wife, you got to cut that lady off. Whoever, if that was real, you can't have people spreading your screenshots around the internet. But, you know, it's also because they're in a situation where they need a quarterback and they're ready to win right now. And this is a situation. actually, strangely enough, you know, you leave their relationship a little bit too soon, and then they hit it big, which is what the Colts are in right now, a win-now situation.

They've got the offensive line. They've got the weapons. They've got the coach. Everything is in place. It feels a little like Tony Romo. When Tony Romo was with the Cowboys, most of his career, the offensive line stunk. And then they built it and drafted it. And by the time it got great, Tony was so beat up, he left.

And Dak got the advantage of the greatest offensive line in football for his career. and it's the same thing as Andrew got beat up, then they realized it, and then as he leaves, they're like, we've got to build her offensive lineup. So the next guy didn't get beaten. I just wish Romo could have had Tyron Smith for 10 years,

and I wish Luck could have had the protection. And I think Romo and Andrew Luck were both great. And I don't think either one of them have regrets about how their career has gone. They're both in a great situation and have done well. But there is some of that, and maybe that's where the story came from. There is some of that, you know, what if? but that's how it goes sometimes.

So before Matthew Stafford was dealt to the Rams, he reportedly told the Lions the one place he didn't want to go was New England, but that could be for the best because Patriots, former Patriot Teddy Bruske, doesn't think Stafford has what it takes to play in that organization. Oh, boy. He's just not tough enough. I mean, he's not, I don't think he's tough enough to be coached hard. I mean, do you realize the mental toughness that Tom Brady had to have for 20 years

to deal with Bill Belichick? I mean, in that type of coaching, I mean, constant pressure every single day. Does Stafford sort of grab you as a guy that could handle that? I just don't think so. So he went to Sean McVeigh and get his little best friend relationship and go have fun over there. That's fun. Oh, my goodness. That's kind of harsh.

Well, there's a couple ways you can look at this. He's definitely taking a shot at Matthew Stafford, little best friend relationship. Like, that's a shot. I don't disagree with him that it does take a certain level. of mental toughness to deal with that organization and that structure, that pressure to be coached by Bill Belichick. We know he's he coaches hard. And it's Tom Brady and he never wrapped his arms around him.

He's the greatest to ever do it. And they never had a buddy-buddy relationship, really even like a close relationship. So that is how he is. And that does take a certain level of a certain type of person to be able to deal with, that's your head coach and you don't have any kind of relationship with them. So I do understand what he's saying. But that's not the reason Matthew Stafford didn't want to. go to New England. He didn't want to go to New England because New England is terrible right now.

You have no skill people. No one to throw to. Did you watch last year, Teddy? Like, that's why he didn't want to go there. Also, I think Belichick, Belichick was very pro-cam and cam-friendly. So, I do think Belichick sees the changing of the guard a little bit, the harder coaching now. I think McVeigh was a part of this about four years ago. Kind of the rigid bang-on guy stuff. Yeah, nobody wants to do that anymore. You're talking to, grown men who are millionaires and make a ton of money away from the field as well. I also

think that another reason he didn't want to go there, Matthew Stafford, isn't that he doesn't want to be held to the standard of Tom Brady in New England. Like, I wouldn't want to go to New England either. I don't think it's because he's too soft to deal with Bill Belichick. First of all, Matthew Stafford, for whatever it's worth,

he just spent 12 years in Detroit. I know you're not calling anything about Detroit soft, so let's not go there. If you're Matt Stafford, I get Robert Woods, Cooper Cup, Cam Acres, two elite tackles, and Sean McVeigh. And their defense. Or I get Sony, Michelle, and Bill Belichick. Bill Belichick.

And the pressure of living up to Tom Brady Standard. It's not even, if I'm Matt Stafford, it's not even close. You go to Los Angeles. By the way, my second choice after L.A. would have been the Colts. Now, they need another receiver, but they have a star back, a great old. line, a good defense, a good coach, Michael Pitman. They need another receiver, but New England's just not that attractive right now. Cold weather, plan outdoors, no tight ends, no receivers, and a defensive coach. The Colts have an offensive coach. The Rams have an offensive coach. The

Niners have an offensive coach. It's not about toughness. It's about where would you want to go? It has nothing to do with toughness at all. And you have to deal with the pressure of living up to Tom Brady. Like, that's not an ideal situation. Can you imagine the people that have to reflect? us someday. Who'd want that? Good luck. Good luck. Luck with that. Joy with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Hurd-Lie News. Oh, I was thinking about this. So do we have that a year ago? So about a year ago, today, Thursday, Friday. We were getting ready for the Kansas City

San Francisco Super Bowl. Okay, do you remember the topic on Thursday, Friday? Was this picture? Now, I'm sorry for the radio audience. It's Brady on his Twitter. Is he walking into the stadium? Is he walking out of it? Is he retiring?

Is he taking a shot at the Patriots? Was he crazy? And remember, the season had just ended poorly. He threw a pick six. He had no weapons. We saw him shouting at teammate at the end of the year. There were four and five in their last nine games. this was the this was today a year ago today that was leading my show this picture of tom brady now since then

it's gone really well for tom new team better weather amazing weapons beat drew breeze beat erin rogers in the playoffs and now in the super bowl but do you remember this picture and do you remember tom is actually funny do you remember the commercial because i it really last year was a year of great Super Bowl commercials. This is one of the better ones. Here's Brady. They say, all good things must come to an end. The best, just know when to walk away.

So to my teammates, my family, and most of all, my fans, you deserve to hear this from me. Hulu doesn't just have live sports. according to the script they just gave me. Who also has your favorite cable channels plus the greatest shows, movies, and originals of all time. So it's time to say goodbye to TV as you know it. But me? I'm not going anywhere.

God, that's right. Then he lances in March. He's going to the Buccaneers. That is so funny when you look back. And by the way, he had already made up his mind. We thought that was an announcement. I mean, he was going back to New England. He had us in a frenzy.

We were like zooming in, trying to see which way his foot was spacing. He's walking in, is he walking out? The way his knee was bent, it was brilliant. Joe Thomas, NFL Network, certain first ballot Hall of Famer. 11 years, 10 Pro Bowls joining us now live. By the way, Joe, when you saw that picture in that commercial last year, I was shocked he went to Tampa. Were you shocked?

I was shocked. I mean, I thought if anything, he was going to just retire as a Patriot. It seemed like he was ready to maybe ride off into the sunset by watching that picture. But I think there's one thing that we got to remember about Tom Brady. There's nothing in his life that he enjoys more than being out there and competing with his teammates for a championship. And he's clearly going to do that until he cannot do that any longer. And basically eating avocado ice cream apparently has allowed him to do that for several more years, maybe even into his 50s.

I wish I would have learned that, and then I might still be playing at the NFL. So pro football focus ranked the top 15 players. Kansas City's got three or four stars at the top. And then from about 7 to 15, it's almost all Buccaneers. The deeper roster is Tampa. The more star-studded top of the roster is Kansas City. In your years in the NFL, what would you bet on? The stars or the depth?

So if this was a normal Super Bowl with great conditions, I would bet with the stars because those are the guys that are going to be the most well-practice. They're going to be able to utilize the game plan as it's been scripted for the last two weeks, as you've been doing the entire season. But with the weather conditions potentially being a little bit tough on Sunday, I think there's supposed to be some rain, potentially some wind. I think I go with depth because what depth does is it gives you more ways to win. You're going to be able to run the ball to win.

You're going to be able to throw the ball deep to win. You're going to be able to throw the ball short to win if you got to play zone coverage. you've got to play man coverage. However you have to play the game to win, depth gives you the opportunity to play that type of game. So I think this tilts the game a little bit more in the Buccaneers' favor because of that depth that they have and because of the potential adverse weather on Sunday.

Listen, you didn't have the great fortune of having a star quarterback, but you yourself were a leader. It's very clear that Tom walked into that locker room, and there was turbulence, Joe. There's the Thursday night Chicago game. He's screaming at teammates. There's 11 penalties. It wasn't easy.

It's like Troy Aikman, his first couple years in Dallas, NFL films. He's barking at guys. You know, get in line. And when you look at that, it's just kind of, you can't argue it. Tom is maybe not the most talented quarterback, but in terms of leadership, what he's done in Tampa, there's no comp. Did you ever play with a player? Didn't have to be a quarterback. Where you just felt they had an ability to lead other successful alpha males.

I played with a lot of quarterbacks, and I played with a lot of other players that were great leaders. But the reason Tom Brady, in my opinion, is the greatest leader that we've ever seen in any sport, an American sport, is because he's combined the great leadership intangibles that you talk about with the great on-field performance. Because the way you become a great leader of men is by not only talking the talk, but walking the walk. So when Brady's at the line of scrimmage, and he tells you to do something, You know you better do it because he's counting on you because you know he's going to do his job and you better be able to do your job and hold up your end of the bargain. And I think that's what's made him such an incredible leader for two decades.

And he walks right into Tampa Bay. He's out there doing all the things he's asking everybody else to do. So as a great leader, as a boss, the best ones are always the ones that would never ask you to do something that they haven't done or that they're not willing to currently do. You know, it's interesting. Mahomes, his personality is different than Tom. Now he's also very young, but he's a little more joyful, a little more playful. I've been at two events where he's there. He's like a kid. where Tom, even when he was 25, was one of those people like Russell Wilson,

25 going on 40. And Mahomes very much lives in the moment of being a kid. Are there advantages or disadvantages to that? He's a little more playful, a little looser than Tom. How do you think that plays out over the next 15 years?

You know, I think that's just a difference of generations, right? That's just Patrick Mahomes' generation, the new generation, the early 20s, the Yolo generation versus the Tom Brady generation, which, you know, you look at all those quarterbacks that came out when Brady was playing. They're all much more serious. And I think both personalities work, it's whoever you are. You just got to let your personality out. And I think we've seen this in spades in the last three, four years in the NFL. And I think Brady

was able to prove it and Gras was able to prove it coming down to Tampa. Like the success of Belichick in New England was not because he was stern and serious. he made everybody's life miserable. It was because he was an amazing coach and he watched tons of film and was able to put all those guys in a great position to succeed. And he got those guys to buy into something bigger than themselves, this team concept, right? And I think Patrick Mahomes has that. Now he does it with a little bit more joy on his face. He seems to be having a little bit more fun maybe than especially when Tom was in New England. But I think both can work because in the end it's all about playing and doing something bigger than yourself,

buying into that team concept, working hard, and getting the most out of all those guys and finding ways to individually motivate everybody. Listen, you played 10,363 straight snaps. You could have played a lot longer, if not for injuries. You could have played. I mean, you were a dominant player, your last snap in the NFL. But it's interesting.

As you were getting into your 30s, you were playing with a lot of guys that were in their early 20s. So Brady's 43. And that whole generational thing is kind of interesting, Joe. Is it a challenge? Do you think in your last year in the NFL, sometimes kids would come into the locker room with music and tech.

And did you think, wow, I'm getting old here. Did you face that challenge? Man, I was that grumpy guy in the locker room when I was 26 years old. And it was twice as bad when I was 34 of my last year in the NFL. And I think this is one of the reasons why the dynasty and the greatness of Tom Brady hasn't fully been appreciated is because he's in his. early 40s right now and he's able to humble himself. The greatest sports athlete that we've ever seen in American history, he's able to humble himself and go up to a 21 or 22 year old rookie and he's

willing to be interested in the things that those guys are interested in. I got to be honest, it was hard for me to relate to a lot of those young guys in the locker in my last couple years in the NFL with how they dressed or the music they listen to or the social media stuff. I didn't even have a Twitter until my last year or two in the NFL. And I still. don't have anything else because I can't manage more than one social media handle. But Brady's been able to constantly reinvent himself. And that's something that few successful older players are able to do because you know what success does?

It makes you sort of stuck in your ways because you think this is the only way I can do this to have success because it's the way it worked for me the first time. But Brady's been flexible. And that's something very, very few superstar athletes are able to have. He made the College Football Hall of Fame. He'll be eligible for the NFL Hall of Fame. I think in 23, and he will be a first ballot guy. Follow him on his Twitter account.

He's got one social media account. I want everybody to follow him at Joe Thomas 73. We'll talk to you soon, up to the draft. It's a great year for offensive linemen in the draft, so I'm going to bring you on a couple times, give you some love. Joe, we've got to go. Thanks for coming on. Thanks for having me, Colin.

I look forward to seeing you with the draft and talking offensive line play and putting your listeners to sleep a little bit. I appreciate it. It's a great draft for receivers and offensive tackles. Coming up next is Tom the last pocket quarterback. And then is it done? Some thoughts on that and where we're going in the sport next. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific.

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were pocket quarterbacks. Okay so like I'm not going to Mahomes and Russell Wilson are considered guys that really move around a lot. And so you think to yourself oh everybody's going to be a pocket guy that guy's done. Jared Goff got to do. He was a Super Bowl recently. Matt Stafford's a pocket guy with the Rams. He'll be viable. Brady's

in a Super Bowl. Matt Ryan got to a Super Bowl. Derek Carr and Kirk Cousins win a lot of games and get to the playoffs. Kurt Cousins does recently. But it does make you think, and I'll give you an example. If you look at the last, if you look at the six

Pro Bowl quarterbacks this year, it was Mahomes, Josh Allen, Deshawn Watson, Russell Wilson, Kyler Murray, and Aaron Rogers, who is now the bare minimum you can have athletically. He moves around a little, but he's a pocket guy. So is the game changing? Well, the rules are changing.

It's not that the game is changing. And I'll give you an example. Basketball. When Steph Curry broke into the NBA, that year, first year, LeBron shot 31% from three-point range. This year, LeBron shoots 41% from three-point range.

So the game, it's basketball, right? You've got to defend guys, got to beat guys off the dribble, you've got to elevate others. But LeBron said, oh, the analytics, the game is changing, so I've got to change with it. But LeBron's largely overwhelming

the same player, and it's not like he shot 17% from threes, and now 50. He was at 31, he's now 41. He was slightly better than average then. He's slightly better than average now. but he evolved and he adapted. And so that's what I think smart players like LeBron do,

and it's what smart coaches do. And I'll give you an example. Here is the graph with all the new rules of where Tom Brady's touchdown passes. Is this where his touchdown passes were thrown this year? Every throw. So sorry for the radio audience. They're all in the exact same area. Right in the middle, right behind the line of scrimmage, right behind it.

Three step drop, five step drop, seven step drop. You know where Tommy's going to be when the ball is snapped. He's going to be right behind center. He's got one out to the right. Then look at Mahomes' chart where every ball was thrown. It's all over the field. It's all over the field. But 85% of them are still in the middle of the field, right where Tommy stands and throws it.

So it's not that LeBron's game is radically different. He is still a great passer, ball handler. He still loves finishing at the rim. He's just gone from a pretty good three-point shooter to a pretty darn good three-point shooter. Mahomes is still, that's why I don't want to overreact all this stuff, that Mahomes is still at his best, I think, in the pocket.

And 19 of the last 21 Super Bowl winning quarterbacks are pocket people. But what you're seeing is, and Sean McVeigh got tired of golf, is that the smarter coaches are looking at the rule changes and they want to move the pocket. They want to add variables to it, and you can't with golf, and you can't with Matt Ryan,

and you don't really with Teddy Bridgewater. And so, like quarterbacks, if you look at the four quarterbacks that are highest rated in this draft class, Trevor Lawrence, Justin Fields, Trey Lance, and Zach Wilson, they're all movers. They're all good in the pocket,

but they're all movers. There's a special feeling. And I'll give you an example. Tua ran a 4-940, and Dwayne Haskins ran a 5-1-40. don't feel special. They're both, I mean, Dwayne Haskins has a big strong arm from the pocket. And Tua, when he's on platform, is very accurate thrower.

But Justin Herbert ran a 4-640 with his ability to throw in the pocket. He feels like he's got a brighter future. Joe Burrell doesn't have a great arm. He's good from the pocket, but it's the Tony Romo wiggle to his game. So I do think a pocket quarterback, they're all pocket court. Outside of Lamar, and he's getting better in the pocket, outside of Lamar, in the league's a pocket quarterback. But as I showed you of that chart,

when you can add variables and curve balls and breaking balls and you're just, LeBron, just a little better, a little more dangerous. You got to guard him now. You can't let him shoot it. That's adapt. Don't change, I guess, the herd.

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It wouldn't be a huge surprise if our team ends up in the quarterfinals or potentially a great run into the semifinals. Listen, Inside American Soccer with Tom Bogart and Tab Ramos on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or... wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast, Point Game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments.

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