The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 05/06/2021 - Best of The Herd

Episode Date: May 6, 2021

Colin looks at the inevitable divorce between Aaron Rodgers and the Packers and why he's falling in line with other all-time great quarterbacks at this point in their careers. He believes this team is clearly the leader in the Rodgers sweepstakes and should be driving a hard bargain to land the 3x MVP. He also explains why Kevin Durant is starting to have a career similar to Wilt Chamberlin. Plus, Bears head coach Matt Nagy joins the show to talk about drafting QB Justin Fields and when he will take over as the team's full time starter.  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Therapy is fantastic, but once again, it does not have a monopoly on healing. That's why I create the resources and that's why I create the community because I really just want you to have more access. On the podcast, Cultivating HerSpace, Dr. Dom and Terry Lomax create a space where black women can show up fully and be heard. It's tough because we're suppressing our emotions and so many of us are like high-achieving individuals. Listen to cultivating her space on the I-Heart radio. app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Your husband is not who you think he is. Your body is not what you thought it was. Your identity is formed by a secret history. I'm Danny Shapiro. And these are just a few of the stunning stories I'll be exploring on the 14th season of Family Secrets. He kind of shoved me out of the way and said, move. And he went out the front door and he jumped in a car and drove off.

And that was the last time I saw him. Listen to Season 14 of Family Secrets on the Eye My Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The story I've told myself can then shape my behavior, and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast, deeply well with Debbie Brown. If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole, this podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to Deeply Well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network. on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcast. This season on Dear Chelsea, with me, Chelsea Handler, we have some fantastic guests like Amelia Clark. When, like, young people come up to me and they want to be an actor or whatever. My first thing is always, can you think of anything else that you can do? Rather be disappointed in.

Do that. David O'Yello. I love this podcast, whether it's therapy or relationships or religion or sex or addiction or you just go straight for the guts. Dennis Leary, Gaten Moderato from Stranger Things, Tana Monsu, Camilla Morone, Carrie Kenny Silver, and more. Listen to these episodes of Dear Chelsea on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening to The Best of Heard Podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday. From 12 to 3 Eastern, 9 to noon Pacific on Fox Sports, and FS1. Find your local station for the herd at Fox SportsRadio.com or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching herd. This is the best of the herd with Colin Cowher on Fox Sports Radio.

Ah, here we go on a Thursday, full of energy. Live in Los Angeles, it's the herd. Wherever you may be and however you may be listening, IHeart Radio, Fox Sports Radio, FSW, FSW, I am going on cameo starting later today, Joy. Whoa. Joy talked me into it. I'm going on cameo and doing Father's Day and Mother's Day messages for America.

So if you want one, sign out, blah, blah, blah. It's very exciting. Doing it for six weeks, that's it. I'm busy. I'm doing stuff. You're a very busy person, yes. Okay, whatever. So one of the advantages, Joy and I have, we've been doing this a while.

And, you know, the downside is when you get older stuff, breaks. The good side, Joy, doing stuff for a long time like you and I've done, we've seen everything before. I've really seen everything before. I don't get, you know, I don't get worked up with crazy politicians. Pandemic was scary, but it's not the first time we've had a major health crisis in America. This country every couple years has a fireworks show. We're not quite sure what to do. We've got to clean it up. It's unexpected. It's loud. And this Aaron Rogers thing now is falling into this. Oh my God, this is this. Can you believe? It is not extraordinary. It's actually rather ordinary. I saw this story this morning. Aaron Rogers told prospective packer free agents, yeah,

I'm probably not going to be here. I want you to think about this. So Tom Brady and New England lasted 20 years. Now, Tom's a Martian, so everything lasts longer. It's silly to put him into any of these arguments, but Tom Brady, 20 years in New England. You can go back to the ESPN article three years earlier, and there was tension before it ended. Aaron Rogers, Green Bay, it's 16 years. It was all good until three years ago when he signed that big contract. Then we got tension. Farvin Rogers, we looked it up this morning, 16 years.

But when they drafted Aaron Rogers, about three, three and a half years earlier, then you had tension. Big Ben, year 17. Yeah, three and a half years ago, they drafted Mason Rudolph, and it got real tense in the building. How about the likable chill, Eli Manning? 16 years is the Giants. Yeah, go back Google, it's a search engine. Last three years, benchings, criticisms, and it got tense.

Not just the players think about those teams. New England, Green Bay, New York Giants, Pittsburgh, Blue Bloods, foundational NFL franchises. It is harder with anxiety. They're not used to it. They have a way of doing business. It's IBM, a little harder to adapt sometimes to the evolution of business and personalities within it. but 13 years of great in harmony, followed by about three years of tension, that's the way it works,

with all sorts of personalities. Now, I do think Aaron's a little more prickly than most, but let's take the four quarterbacks I mentioned. Eli Manning, it's like chill, southern chill, the laid-back brother of an icon. Aaron Rogers, California cool, kind of condescending. different personalities. Tom Brady, aspirational. I'll play forever. Which is the opposite of Big Ben. I don't even work out in the off season. You got big city guys, small city guys, little brother guys, want to play forever guys. It's always the same. By the way, Matt Ryan, 13 years in Atlanta, got a little tense this year as they consider drafting a quarterback.

You can feel that happening in Atlanta. We went online this morning and looked it up. The average divorce happens after about eight, eight and a half years. But that's after three years of dating in a year to a year and a half of engagement. Let's add up the numbers, eight and a half plus three plus one and a half equals 13 years. This is not extraordinary. This is the way it works. Yes, Aaron's hyper-prickly personality in Green Bay's conservative Midwestern cheese hat-wearing ethos was bound to fail.

But it doesn't matter if you're laid back like Eli, intense like Tom, beers in a yoga class in the summer like Big Ben, or California cool Aaron. To further my point, who are the three greatest Packer quarterbacks of all time? Bart Starr, it lasted 16 years. Brett Farrv, it lasted 16 years. Aaron Rogers, if he's traded this year, will have lasted 16 years. You've been around, you've seen everything. Just bound to happen over and over and over. Andy Reed, Patrick Mahomes.

Got about 10 more years together. Mahomes will have a few Super Bowls, few injuries. If Andy's still around, he'll be really expensive. They won't want to talk about it, but they'll have to. We're going to draft another quarterback. 13 years in, you hope you get three more at the end, maybe a Super Bowl, but it gets tense. It's the way it always works with star quarterbacks. So now there is this belief.

I've read multiple stories on this that, Denver is the number one team for Aaron Rogers. That's the number one team. Like it's understood. They have the pieces. They have the draft picks. And they're in a division with great quarterbacks. And in fact, when Mark Slareth went on the air right before the draft and said Denver,

Mark's a very popular talk show host in Denver, Denver has the best package for him. Aaron did not dismiss it. Aaron DM Mark Slareth. He didn't say you were wrong. He said, get lunch soon. Where'd you hear that? And Schleras said somebody that has really good contacts that has never been wrong. And so there is this sense, Green Bay is just going to get a cachet, a truckload of great picks. I don't think that's true. And for anybody going after Aaron,

there's a lot of red flags here. First of all, Denver's general manager, George Payton, is a first-year general manager replacing Elway. He's not getting fired. GM for Green Bay could get fired, but George Payton can strike a hard bargain, even if they finish fourth. Vic Fangio's out. Not the general manager. So he doesn't have any inside pressure in Denver. They're going to defend him to the end. Brian Gutikens in Green Bay, got a lot of heat. But I want you to think about the red flags with Aaron. How much would Green Bay get back? Let's do the ABCs of Aaron's issues. He's already gotten a head coach fire.

A. Doesn't help him on the market. Some teams just don't want that. He's now working on getting a general manager fired. B. C, he missed half of two seasons with an injury. D, he got hurt in week one against the Bears and played hurt another year.

E, he's expensive. F. He's old, 37, and G. Tom Brady's going to be looking at film in the offseason. He's going to be hosting Jeopardy. Aaron's got a lot of non-football interest going on in his life. Listen, Denver wants him, but should strike an incredibly hard bargain. And by the way, Aaron Rogers should be rooting for it.

What you don't want is when Carmelo Anthony announced, I'm going to be a Nick. and the Denver Nuggets had to trade him. But because Carmelo said, I refused to play here, the Knicks had to give everything up to get Carmelo. Denver had all the leverage, and Carmelo ended up being a very expensive chandelier in a house with no furniture.

Aaron Rogers has to be careful, because what he doesn't want to do is go to Denver, and they've given up their number two receiver. They've given up six draft picks. What Aaron wants to do is go to a franchise that maybe gives up a couple of first round picks, but doesn't have to give up any weapons. Denver has leverage. Green Bay doesn't have nearly as much as they think.

And if you're Aaron Rogers, be careful. You want the team you go to to win the trade. Don't corner Green Bay. Don't jam them up against the wall. You don't want that. You want the team that gets you. You don't want a Carmelo Anthony. This or that.

I'm leaving if I don't. You want the team that gets you to win the trade. Also, it should be noted. If he went to Denver, not only would Aaron Rogers not be a Super Bowl favorite, they would not be favorites to win their division. Aaron is closer to the Super Bowl in Green Bay this morning that he would be in Denver tomorrow morning. And that's with the current Bronco roster.

What if they have to give up multiple pieces? Makes it even harder. All right. So Damian Lillard said something about Kevin Durant. And though it may be true, it points out the truth about Kevin Durant's legacy, which has now already been framed unless, unless he wrote, remains healthy and wins several titles in Brooklyn.

Good stuff today. Matt Nagy, coach of the Chicago Bears, joins us in one hour. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Hey, everyone, it's Ryder Strong and Wilfridell from PodMeets World. And now the Podmeets Twirled podcast. We're two men who were completely clueless to reality TV, who now have covered dancing with the stars, traitors, and were gearing up for the season finale of Survivor. So yeah, now we're experts.

I know we annoyed a lot of our listeners by our severe lack of survivor knowledge. That is the point of the show. I'm just going to remind you. I have watched some Survivor. I obviously haven't watched enough. Did people not like it? Like what was just because we?

Yeah. We'll be recapping the big conclusion of the 50th season from the final attempts at gameplay to the desperate pleas of finalists to a bunch of, ha, who. Ha, ha, ha, who. Oh, again, we are experts.

So make sure to tune into Pod Meets Twirled for all our Survivor 50 takes. Listen to PodMeets Twirled on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's your responsibility to not just seek help, but to identify that you need help. This is Mental Health Awareness Month. Tune in to the podcast, Just Healed with Dr. Jay, and take real steps toward healing, growth, and becoming your best self. When you hear the word healing, what does that mean for you? What came right back to mine are the three P's that I live by, I'll go through the process of healing so that patience, that perseverance, and that prayer equals healing to me.

From understanding your mental health to doing the work, we break down practical tools, real conversations, and the mindset shifts you need to move forward and thrive. You matter too. Your mental health is your responsibility, not your wife, not your partner, not your children, not the church, not the pastor, not the counselor. It's your responsibility. It's time to stop putting your healing on hold and start doing something about it.

Listen to Just Here With Dr. Jay on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Your husband is not who you think he is. Your body is not what you saw it was. Your identity is formed by a secret history. I'm Danny Shapiro, and these are just a few of the stunning stories

I'll be exploring on the 14th season of family secrets. And just then, we felt the plain turn in the air, so much so that the bags that were under people's seats just kind of flew into the aisle. Each week, we dive head first into the complex power of secrecy, how it shapes our identities and relationships, and how it ultimately can reveal to us our truest selves. My daughter, she's pretending she doesn't know, but is trying to cook and feed me and keep me alive because I wasn't eating anything. and me pretending like everything was fine. He kind of shoved me out of the way and said, move. And he went out the front door and he jumped in a car and drove off. And that was the last time I saw him.

Listen to season 14 of Family Secrets on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The story I've told myself about love or relationships can then shape my behavior. And that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast deeply well with Debbie Brown and explore the journey of healing, self-discovery, and returning to yourself. We explore higher consciousness, emotional well-being, and the practices that help you find clarity, peace, and self-mastery in a world that can feel overwhelming. The world is becoming lonelier. We're not becoming more social and connected. We're becoming more individualized, but we actually meet people in connection. If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole,

this podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. 1-800flowers.com. Offer ends today. Mother's Day gifts. 1-800 flowers. Enter the code, Heard, H-E-R-D. All sorts of good stuff.

bouquets, one-in-hundred flowers. So there's always comparisons made between athletes, you know, who's in the NFL, general managers ask their scouts. Give me a comp, give me a high and end, a low-end. And that's what you do. That's Rich McKay, who now runs the Atlanta Falcons, the president. He taught me that years ago when I covered the buccaneers. I asked my scouts, best case scenario, worst-case scenario, who is this player. And so that's an exercise teams use. In basketball, you get that similarly.

And we always make comparisons. I've always thought the LeBron MJ stuff. It's actually a credit to both. What it's basically saying, because their games aren't the same, it's basically saying these are the two best players of all time. That's what it's really saying. It's not about anything else, is that LeBron's the first guy we've really ever discussed a lot with Michael Jordan.

LeBron and Michael Jordan because LeBron's so good. But I saw a story yesterday, Damian Lillard, great player for Portland, one of the five, ten best players in the world, said, you know, Kevin Durant really, when healthy, could be the best player in the world. Here's Dame. Katie, healthy could very well be the best player in the NBA. Nobody can guard him. Like, if he's healthy, he's shooting threes off the dribble, he's pulling up off the dribble, he's posting up, he's posting up, you can get to the rim. you can't block his shot the way he handles the ball, the way he moves at that size. Who are you going to put on him?

When healthy, I think at this moment, he could very well be the best player in the league. It's all about offense, though. He doesn't defend like LeBron at his peak, doesn't pass like LeBron, doesn't lead like LeBron, not as physically sturdy as LeBron. But the NBA players love other players' offense. You know what Kevin Durant really is to me? He is Wilt. That's his comp. Remember, Wilt started with a globe.

Trotters, then went to the Warriors, then went to the Sixers, then went to the Lakers. In an era, players were not mobile. He was. That's Kevin Durant. One year at Texas, then he goes to Oklahoma City, then he goes to the Warriors. Now he's at Brooklyn. He is wilt. He is an unstoppable offensive force. He's flaky. Great player, but never really seen as the face of the league. The personality doesn't work. In the end, he's going to have some titles, but you always wonder, Why weren't there more with Wilt? Kobe, of course, has always been, and this one's not even arguable. Kobe is MJ.

Intense, similar size. Actually had the same coach in the same system. Killers, winners. They were all about the W. They were all about winning. They were confrontational. They get in your face. LeBron doesn't.

LeBron, of course, is magic. makes everybody better. Probably the best passing big I've ever seen in my life. They're great businessmen. Everybody likes kind of playing with them. Everybody's best years around magic. Everybody's best years around LeBron. Lots of finals.

Win some, lose some. Both are number one picks. Massive pressure on both. First night in the league. Westbrook is Iverson. Hyper speed. It's like blur. That's what they should put on the back of Westbrook's jersey.

Blur. Intense. You've got to kind of build a team around them specifically for what they are. They're iconoclastic. Don't get along with all teammates. Very difficult to play for him. First ballot Hall of Famers. But a lot of credibility among players because they're just so intensely,

naturally gifted. But Katie's kind of wilt. I mean, for all the greatness of wilt, we've talked about this before, Wilt not only scored 100 points in the game, and he played for a long time. He scored 80 several times. He scored 70 a dozen times. You couldn't stop Will. The average center was 6.8.

He was 7.1. Wilt would be great today. Wilt would be great today. But it's only 7th, all-time leading score. Why doesn't he have more titles? Because Wilt, like KD, was a wanderer. You're just kind of wandering through life and enjoying life, doing a bunch of stuff in life, happy with a lot of things in life,

sometimes felt a little tortured, a little flaky, great, often argued the best player in the league, but you never really felt like he was the face of the league because you couldn't really depend on Wilt all the time. Bill Russell was a rock you could depend on him. Kareem had the skyhook forever. Magic, Michael, Kobe.

Even Shaq in his craziness, you felt like you could build the league around them. Not really with Wilt. not really with KD. So first of all, I always kind of laugh when players talk about best player in the league. Yeah, KD is unstoppable. How can we never talk about leadership and health and defense and making others better? It just gets lost sometimes on players.

And secondly, there's all these comps for everybody. And this is not a shot because Wilt is the first superstar I ever saw. I was on a bunk bed, top. Blazers Lakers. Wilt was old. He had a headband. The Blazers couldn't stop him. He was like the first.

great player. I had newspaper clippings around my room. I think Wilt was eventually replaced by like Elmore Smith for the Lakers. It's like a trivia question. But KD. can't stay healthy. And he's not really dependable. And I think he's going to end up much like Chamberlain, which is a lot of titles, but not as many as we think he should garner. By the way, I saw a story this morning. The owner of 49ers said, hey, we could sit Trey Lance behind Jimmy Garoppolo for multiple years. okay, that's not going to happen because Jimmy's not healthy for multiple years. If Jimmy Garoppolo was going to play just for two years, and let's say San Francisco is good enough to be a playoff team,

so let's say two playoff games per year. Now we have 17 games. Are you saying Jimmy Garapolo is going to play 34, that's two years, 34 regular seats, 38 straight games? The longest he's ever played is 21, and that is by far and away, double, almost triple his longest succession of games in a row. So that's not going to happen. This is what's going to happen in San Francisco.

Jimmy's going to play till the wheels come off. And if they don't come off this year, he'll stay. This time next year, Trey's starting Jimmy's being moved. That's just the way it's going to work. This idea that, oh, it's just Jimmy's going to play for a year. No, no, no, no. You don't give up a bunch of picks. Move to three.

It's a one-year plan. It's like Mahomes. One year. In fact, don't be shocked if Trey's. and get a little taste off a buy week. Niners have a three or four game leading division. Probably won't. Don't be surprised.

Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Hey, it's Ben, host of The Fifth Hour with Ben Maller, along with my trusty sidekick, David Gascon, would mean a lot to have you join us on our weekly auditory journey. You're asking what in God's name is the fifth hour? I'll tell you, it's a spinoff of the Ben Mather show, a cult hit overnights on FSR. Why should you listen? if you will a world where we chat with captains of industry in media, sports and more every week explore some amazing facts about human nature and more.

Listen to the fifth hour with Ben Mather on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey everyone, it's Ryder Strong and Wilfredel from PodMeets World. And now the Podmeets Twirled podcast. We're two men who were completely clueless to reality TV, who now have covered Dancing with the Stars, Traders, and we're gearing up for the season finale of Survivor. So yeah, now we're experts. I know we annoyed a lot of our listeners by our severe lack of survivor knowledge. That is the point of the show.

I'm just going to remind you. I have watched some survivor. I obviously haven't watched enough. Did people not like it? Yeah. Just because we? Yeah. We'll be recapping the big conclusion of the 50th season from the final attempts at gameplay

to the desperate pleas of finalists to a bunch of who. Ha, ha, ha, who. Again, we are experts. So make sure to tune into Pod Meets Twirled for all our Survivor 50 takes. Listen to PodMeets Twirled on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's your responsibility to not just seek help, but to identify that you need help. This is Mental Health Awareness Month. Tune in to the podcast, Just Healed with Dr. Jay, and take real steps toward healing, growth, and becoming your best self.

When you hear the word healing, what does that mean for you? What came right back to mine are the three P's that I live by, I'll go through the process of healing so that patience, that perseverance, and that prayer equals healing to me. From understanding your mental health to doing the work, we break down practical tools, real conversations, and the mindset shifts you need to move forward and thrive. You matter too. Your mental health is your responsibility, not your wife, not your partner, not your children, not the church, not the pastor, not the council.

Is your responsibility? It's time to stop putting your healing on hold and start doing something about it. Listen to Just Here With Dr. Jay on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Your husband is not who you think he is. Your body is not what you saw it was.

Your identity is formed by a secret history. I'm Danny Shapiro, and these are just a few of the stunning stories I'll be exploring on the 14th season of Family Secrets. And just then, we felt the plain turn in the air, so much so that the bags that were under people's seats just kind of flew into the aisle. Each week, we dive headfirst into the complex power of secrecy, how it shapes our identities and relationships, and how it ultimately can reveal to us our truest selves. My daughter, she's pretending she doesn't know, but is trying to cook and feed me and keep me alive because I wasn't eating anything. and me pretending like everything was fine.

He kind of shoved me out of the way and said, move. And he went out the front door and he jumped in a car and drove off. And that was the last time I saw him. Listen to season 14 of Family Secrets on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The story I've told myself about love or relationships can then shape my behavior. And that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast deeply well with Debbie Brown

and explore the journey of healing, self-discovery, and returning to yourself. We explore higher consciousness, emotional well-being, and the practices that help you find clarity, peace, and self-mastery in a world that can feel overwhelming. The world is becoming lonelier. We're not becoming more social and connected. We're becoming more individualized, but we actually meet people in. connection. If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole, this podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black

Effect Podcast Network on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I am not a fan of people getting fired. I'm a believer. Everybody has, I understand like every year you've got to get rid of 5% of your business, they say, but I tend to think there's a place for everybody in a business unless they're just abusive and, you know, rotten people. But you can mostly find a place for everybody within a company. Sometimes they're just in a wrong division. They've got a boss. The personalities don't click.

I've had that before. I don't like a boss. Oh, they don't have the right role. They don't have the right role. So I do think it's kind of up to companies. I don't think you have to get rid of as many people as you think. And by the way, some people are just not built for corporate life. They want to do their own thing.

So some people leave on their own. But there's this feeling now in Green Bay that it's between Aaron Rogers. He would stay if they got rid of the GM. A lot of people are saying that. And the GM is Brian Gudenkoontz, who kind of whiffed on this whole thing. So Nick Wright came on the show yesterday and talked about, hey, GM took a big swing, missed, get rid of him. Aaron Rogers has actually made this incredibly easy for the Packers. You just fire Brian Gudenkundst.

It's not that hard. And by the way, oh, Nick, that's unfair. What is he done? I'll tell you exactly what he's done. He took a massive swing and a massive risk to remake the team in his image last year in the draft. And Guden Kuntz made a bet, a bet that Rogers would show significant decline in 2020 and that he would look like a genius for being ahead of it. Well, sometimes when you make a big bet, you lose.

All of this is fair. Brian Gudenkust severely underestimated Aaron's personality and reaction to the pick. He underestimated Aaron's ability because he won MVP. They thought he was eroding. And he underestimated the backlash. Everybody's kind of pro-errant anti-Packer. So if you draft Jordan Love, you need to consider a lot of things. What's Aaron going to be like?

can Jordan Love play fast if this blows up? The media fan backlash. That matters, by the way. Do I change the way I draft? If it blows up, I can't have a bunch of developmental offensive linemen. I need players that help Jordan Love fast. And if you look at, if you look when they drafted Jordan Love, if you look at the last two drafts, they've taken a backup running back, six offensive linemen, only won a high

pick all development, a backup tight end, a quarterback that won't play. I mean, they've taken a lot of a cornerback from Georgia that's a reach. He's a developmental first round corner. They've taken a lot of developmental guys. Well, if Aaron leaves, you don't need developmental guys. You need players. Or this trade's going to look worse. So I can make the argument, Brian Guttencunes has butchered this.

He just, he underestimated Aaron's reaction, Jordan's ability to play soon. They made the draft last couple of years more developmental than instant guys who can help. But I wouldn't fire him. And here's why. Because Brian went to Wisconsin. He is, except for one year he was a scout somewhere else, he's a packer for life. He does a fine job. He fits their nature.

He is what they are. He's going to work for Green Bay for another 20 years. He looks 21 as it is. I don't know how old he is, probably 40. He's a Packer for life. I mean, when Green Bay, Ted Thompson left, they didn't even interview a candidate outside the building. So he is of the nature of Green Bay.

Aaron's not. Remember that movie Shawshank Redemption? Some birds are not meant to be caged. Their feathers are too bright. Aaron's got an ego. Packers are egoless. Aaron's California cool. They wear cheeseheads.

This was never going to work. It's remarkable. It's lasted 16 years. I think so much of this is Brian Gudenkoons is a nice guy, a packer for life. They just didn't get it. Of course they didn't get it. Of course he can't relate to Aaron Rogers. Of course he massively underestimated how Aaron would react.

They were cheeseheads. this is the Green Bay way. He's a Packer. He's a badger. I'm not taking a shot at him. But he will be around for 25 years. He'll never have to say, this is why I drafted an offensive lineman in the fifth round

who's three years from playing. That's what Green Bay does. They're great at it. That doesn't fit what Aaron is, which is I need to win now. I'm 37. I've had two collarbone surgeries. So I don't, first of all,

I don't like, saying fire people. But in this instance, you're talking about an older player and a younger general manager, and one of them fits the ethos, the work ethic, the vision of the Packers. Just keep him around. He butchered this one. You do have a right to butcher stuff. Every GM, Bill Pollian, six-time executive year, butchered picks.

This is imperfect. Belichick can't draft the wide receiver to save his life. He butchered it. Jordan's not as good and prepared as we thought. It ticked off Aaron Rogers. Your last couple of drafts have been more about developmental players than guys that can help you. And you keep going to NFC championships. Get dudes.

Look at San Francisco two years ago. Look at Tampa now. You don't have enough dudes. So, I don't know. I just, of course they screwed this up. I don't think Aaron's ever been ideally built for Green Bay. And I think, I think Brian Gooden-Kunst is Green Bay. So I wouldn't get rid of him.

Matt Nagy, the Bears, around the corner. This came out, by the way. So Foxbet, Fandul, they wait until kind of after the draft, usually, to give you the over-unders. Now, gambling is not for everybody. Over-unders basically mean Fox bet will give you a number. 17-game season, they'll give you at 9.5 Cleveland.

And it is you, as a gambler, as a better, that says, I think they're going to win 10 or more than you bet what's called the over. If you're like, I don't know, that defense, I don't know, that division's good. Then I think they're going to win less than nine and a half. They're going to go the under. So what we did as a staff is we took all the Fox bet over under numbers. This is what they're predicting the standings to beat. Now, in many instances, teams in the same division had the same number.

So we went even deeper. Alex did a very good job on this. Then he went and looked at the Foxbet division winning odds. And so even though teams would both be nine and a half in the same division, one would have slightly better odds, Rams over the Niners in the NFC West. So we put them ahead. And then in some instances,

we got down to Chargers in New England, and it was almost the same. But then we went even deeper into other odds about making the playoffs. the Chargers were a slightly better bet than New England to make the playoffs. So we use that. So using the data from Fox bet, here's how they see the playoffs happening. So let's do the AFC East. Let's do the AFC first.

So here's the AFC. We're done with coaching. We're done with free agency. We're done with a draft. Buffalo, New England, Miami, New York. Bills win the division. New England second. Miami third, New York fourth.

I mostly agree. I do think Buffalo over is the best bet in that division. Let's go to the AFC North. They have Baltimore winning the division, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, and Cincinnati. Now, I think Cleveland is going to win the division. However, I do believe, if you look at their schedule,

they got New England on it, Green Bay on it, Kansas City on it. I want to wait until next Wednesday night to see the schedule. Because it could be, if they get Andy Reid early, you know, Packers, New England, late, it may not work out. But I would switch that. I would have Cleveland 1, Baltimore, 2.

I think they're both decent overbets. Now let's go to the AFC South. I think this indie wins it. Tennessee next. I'm not as high on Tennessee. I think they take a step back. Jacksonville, 3rd, Houston 4th. I'm fine with the order.

I just disagree with. Fox bet. I think Tennessee and Jacksonville are a little closer than we think, but the order is fine. And then the AFC West, I'm totally in line with it. Kansas City wins it by a couple of games. Chargers next. I'd bet the over on the chargers, Denver and then Las Vegas. So I don't have a problem with that. So now let's go to the NFC. NFC East Overunders. Dallas winning it by a game over Washington, Giants, third, Philadelphia, 4th. I'm okay with the order. I am. I think Washington, Dallas can both go over. I think they play to the last two weekends to decide it.

Washington, great defense, great coach, Dallas average coach, great offense. But I do think their defense will be better. So I'm okay with the order. I'd have to sleep on it. But I do think Dallas, Washington, New York, Philadelphia works for me. Let's now go to the NFC North. Now the Packers are actually off the board. You can't bet them now.

But this order I'm okay with. I think if Chicago knew when Justin Fields was going to play, I could like them at second, but they don't. And I think Minnesota is an absolute bounceback team in the NFL. I've said that. So the order doesn't bother me. Then we go to the NFC South. It's Tampa, New Orleans, Atlanta, Carolina.

Now, I don't necessarily have a problem with the order. I think New Orleans, like the Titans, is not as good as the odds makers think. They don't know who the quarterback is. They had to get rid of some players, gambled a little in the draft. I wouldn't be surprised if Atlanta and Carolina, who are going to have very robust offenses this year, one of those ends up second. I'm not bothered by the order,

but the Saints and the Titans, I'm a little cool on. And then we go to the NFC West, Rams, San Francisco, Seattle, Arizona. I think what you're betting on here is Stafford is healthier than Jimmy Garoppolo. I think that's the bet. And by the way, they're both at 10 and a half wins. the Niners are plus 200 to win the division. That's not as good as the Rams who are plus 175 to win the division. So here are the playoff teams.

This is the way it works. According to Fox Bet, in the AFC, it's Kansas City, Baltimore, Buffalo, Indianapolis, Cleveland, Tennessee, Los Angeles. Six of those, I agree with, I'm not sure Tennessee's my pick. I'll wait for a while, but I'm not sure Tennessee gets in. I think they take a step back. in the NFC, the playoff picture is Tampa Green Bay. Again, that's off the board right now. Rams, Cowboys, Niners, Seattle, New Orleans.

Again, my gut feeling it's not the Saints. I think in their division, Atlanta and Carolina are going to score a lot of points. If New Orleans has a couple of injuries on that defensive side, they're not the same team. So there you go. That is the prediction. I mostly agree with it. Cooler on the Saints and the Times. Titans like the Chargers and the Browns a little more than Foxbet or Vegas does.

Matt Nagy, coach of the Bears, I'm told, joining us next segment. One more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHeart radio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. There was a lot of talk about New England moving up in the draft, and they did not. We speculated that Washington, we didn't love their quarterback situation, but we like their team and their coach, they should move up in the draft. They did not. The Chicago Bears were lightly discussed as moving up,

and then they did to get Justin Fields, who dropped slightly, I guess, in the draft. And the coach of the Bears, Matt Nagy, is now joining us live. So first of all, it's exciting. You move up, you get a quarterback. So let's just take our audience, Matt. Good to see again. Kind of to, had you made a decision, you know, this draft,

is so crazy. I talked to multiple general managers. Some preach patience. Others are like, go get what you like. Had you made a decision before the draft or it wasn't one of those, oh, oh, wait a minute, time out. He didn't go to blank. Kind of take me to that process. Yeah, Colin, first of all, it's great seeing you, as always, and talking football. What I would say is this, I think the fun part of heading into the draft and going through it is just going through all the different scenarios that can happen, really, at every specific position. And so it's like getting ready for a game, just trying to make sure situationally you're prepared for those fourth and one calls, the four-minute calls to get a first down and win the game.

And so we go through every scenario, hey, what if this guy falls? What if that guy falls? And within that, we all go through our evaluation process of the guys we like. And so you never know how it's going to go up until literally, that minute and the rush that you get when it does happen, it's like the best feeling in the world. And, you know, like you said, it happened to, you know, fall a certain way. And we were so ecstatic and happy about it. And, you know, we couldn't have predicted it three hours earlier. But in the end, it's definitely a situation that we discussed a lot about and ended up falling on

our way. So take me to the moment that you and Ryan had decided, because this was a good quarterback draft. Was there a workout, a pro day, a film session when you and Ryan sat down and went, boy, if this kid's available, the word is, you fell in love with him a while back? Yeah, so this is really that story begins last year, really a little over a year ago when we were discussing 2020 prospects. I was with Ryan Day. And at the end of it, as the story goes, I just asked him about that quarterback, and he said, hey, man, this kid's a generational talent. And that stuck with me. And you never know where things are going to go a year later, but that always stuck with me.

And so as we get into the draft process and we start, Ryan and I start looking at quarterbacks and the rest of our scouts and personnel, there's so many great quarterbacks in this class. And so we got to do due diligence and make sure we see who we like, why we like them, compare them. That's the best, Colin, is when you're watching a guy and you keep coming into Ryan's room or Ryan keeps coming into my room and like, did you do you? see this play? Did you see that play? Man, he can do this. He can do that. And not just for Justin, but for all of these guys. And so in the end, this is what we feel really great about with Justin.

And he's just such an exciting player that can do so many things. And we're looking forward to the future with him. Is it a dilemma that Andy Dalton plays one way, or Justin is more hyper-athletic? Do you have to have, take me to this? I'm just naive here. do you do you and I was just talking to Eric mangini off the air and he said boy if I had the nineers I would put in some plays for Trey Lance just regardless I wouldn't want to face Tray Lance in the in the red zone he's running around how do you have you have two quarterbacks would I would argue one's much more dynamic athletically is it a challenge for you to do that deal with that yeah that's a real question and that's legit and what we need to do

as coaches as we develop this this identity that we want to create throughout training camp, the offseason, and into the season is just that. We got to be able to work to Andy's strengths, and then we got to be able to also work to Justin's strengths. And there's going to be times that we see. There's things that Justin does really well that Andy might not do as well and vice versa. But we would be crazy to not take what Justin has done so great in his two years at Ohio State and concepts and plays that he likes and plays he feels comfortable with and help him get going when it is his time and when he is playing. And so, and it's the same thing with Andy, too, you know, coming in for the first time this year

and learning concepts that he's done in the last nine, ten years of his career. So, but they are different. That's what makes it fun. And I think it's our job to make sure we adapt to the strengths of each quarterback. When did you tell Andy Dulton? When did you tell him, hey, Andy, we love you, but we're going to draft a quarterback. How'd it go? So the day of the draft, earlier that day, Andy and I called up.

to discuss a lot of different things. And one of the topics was the draft. And I told them, you know, because we didn't know. We said, hey, there's a lot of different things that could happen today being round one and the rest of the weekend. What I will tell you is that every position is open and including quarterback. And so I can't predict when that may happen. But if it does, I just want you to know the amount of respect that we have for you,

where you stand with us and this team moving forward. And that that's real. I think that's very, very important to have with your players. is build that trust and that honesty and that openness. We're all grown men here, and we all understand how this thing goes. He was a true pro about it. He understood it. And then later, after it did happen, and we traded for Justin and got him,

I called him that night, and I explained to him. And any natural human being is going to be a little bit, I don't know what the word is, maybe discouraged or frustrated slightly because he's a competitor. But at the same time, Andy's a true pro, and he's going to do everything he can to help Justin out and help the bears out. And ultimately the biggest thing of all of this is we got to make sure we as coaches do what's best for the Bears organization and also for both Andy and Justin. And we'll put a great plan together.

We'll believe in it. I was fortunate enough to live it in 2017. Is it the same? Yes. Is it a slightly different? Yes. And we know that. And so we'll just see where it takes us.

Listen, it is, and this isn't a criticism. This is a reality. If I coach the Bears and this is Chicago is a pressure town. I mean, one second, Joe Madden's the world smart. baseball guy. The next minute, he's not managing the Cubs. It's just the reality of Chicago. It's a great sports town. People are engaged. And Matt, you got to win, and that's a tough division. Mike Zimmer can coach, LaFleur can coach. You got a new quarterback now in Detroit. Psychologically, you get into a season. You're four and four. And you're thinking to yourself,

I'm in a battle here. God, I love my job. My family love Chicago. Is there a little psychology with You got a win in Chicago now, and how do you reconcile that with, is Justin Ready? Is he not? We got to win. My job's on the line. That's a real pressure, right? That's real, right? No doubt about it.

And I think that that is why I'm in this position. And the one thing that Ryan and I and myself, because I'm in that during the season, it's going to be myself making the decision, is you understand that whatever decision is made, it's not going to be made because of Matt Nagy. It's not going to be made because of Ryan Pace. It's going to be made because of its best for the Chicago Bears organization and it's best for Justin Fields. And so I think we all, again, all of us live in that instant gratification world where everything, you know, we wanted to happen right away right now. But there's so many steps that go into this process of making sure that we do this thing the right way with Justin for Justin and for the Chicago Bears.

I feel very confident in the coaches that we have around us to be able to develop him with a great strategy of things that we've done in the past and things that we're going to change moving forward this year with that. But we got to make sure that we all understand if and when that time does come for Justin to be ready. And we don't know how that may happen that he is ready because the worst thing we can do is put him in when he's not ready and ruin him, which ruins the bears. And so we want to make sure that we do this so that he has a very successful entry into this league. He plays with confidence. He's a winner, which he's always been. And then ultimately, in the end, he's the best thing for the Chicago Bears plain and simple. Yeah, I'm watching him run around.

He can really run. It'd be fun. It'd be fun to be a coach and have a guy that can run around and do some things nobody else in the league can do. It's great seeing you. You know, I'm in Chicago here in a couple of weeks. You could do worse than take me to dinner. That would not be a place. We got to make it happen, man.

For sure. Absolutely. All right, Matt, good seeing you. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the IHeard Radio app. Mike Silver, all right, he's ready to go. Let's join my buddy NFL network as connected as anybody in this business. Follow him at Mike Silver.

All right. This whole Rogers thing, what predates it a little was the rumors about San Francisco in Green Bay. there had been a story that in the summer the Packers talked about it. Can you just give me some information on Niners, Rogers? Was it real? Because I've read multiple places say it was. I mean, John Lynch admitted it, right, that they made a call. You know, listen, this kind of blew up on draft day.

And, you know, if Aaron Rogers were out there on the free market, obviously the Niners and virtually every other team, maybe not Kansas City and a couple others, but everyone else would at least think about getting in. But that's not really what happened. And, you know, if you're Matt LaFleur, who is pretty close with Kyle Shanahan, someone you consider a mentor,

you've been going through months of trying to navigate this in a weird position, Colin, by the way, because it's the least collaborative organization by far in the NFL. the coach really isn't involved in a lot of these things and has no power. So Matt LaFleur, who obviously is all in on Aaron Rogers and wants to keep it rolling and have a third year together and beyond, has been grappling with this. You know, he and Kyle are close. And, you know, I just think if you're Matt LaFleur, you've got to be super frustrated by the way it went down.

and the fact that in your time of stress and, you know, struggle, your buddy's team was apparently tried to swoop in and grab your guy, even as they were theoretically about to celebrate the drafting of Trey Lance and apparently more important to them, the fact that they kept it a big secret from people like me. So I'm a little, you know, I think the whole thing is, bigger than that, but I do understand, you know, that dynamic. And I think if you're Matt LaFleur, you're not super thrilled with the time. I said this before. Aaron doesn't want to go

to a team that has to give the Packers a fortune because then he's going to be a big chandelier and a house with no furniture. It also isn't good for his brand if he's seen as being difficult to the beloved Green Bay Packers in small market tidal town. He doesn't want to be a jerk. It could hurt his brand. It could hurt his advertisements. I mean, does that matter? I mean, do you think this thing's going to get done before the season? First of all, I think he's over the hurt his brand thing. I mean, to me, he snapped, right?

I mean, even if you don't think that all the reports were 100% reflective of how he feels, he's had ample opportunity to walk it back or say something or put it out there that it's not that bad. So I believe, Colin, that he's got to the point where he's like, I don't care about my brand. I don't care about my, you know, the fact that I seem difficult. And he's probably confident enough in his own abilities that he believes a team that mortgages the future to get him by trading future draft picks, something the Packers have been reluctant to do, that he'll be able to get that team over the top.

So, you know, I don't know if it's solvable. And, you know, I think we need to see how some things play out. Aaron could scorch the earth further. He could speak publicly. You know, they could take away his money if he doesn't show up. Other teams could, you know, come at them, even though they're not taking offers. They could just bombard the Packers and just go, look, man, we'll give you four ones, let's go. So there are a lot of different ways it could play out.

but, you know, is it fixable? Right now it seems pretty bad to me. I guess it's theoretically fixable, but the things that the Packers could have done, I think, to get him in a better place, they clearly have not been able to do or it wouldn't have come out the way it did. I've said before, you know,

I look at this and I think to myself, he is not of their nature, and Green Bay is not of Aaron's nature, and they've never been able to kind of, click. And I think to myself, in the end, it's 16 years. It's time. It's time to move on. I kind of feel like, hey, you know, Brady got tired of New England. If you, like today, I look at it and I think to myself, hell, if Jordan Love can't be ready after preseasoning camp, isn't that making the argument that Brian Gunnichundt

whiffed on the first round pick? Well, okay, so it's a larger question because normally, the coach and GM are sitting together in the room and they have a strategy laid out. Now they weren't in the same room when the Jordan Love pick was made because of COVID. But usually in most organizations, yeah, one of them has the power, but they're very aligned and they're in on the plan. In Packer World, it's more like Matt LaFleurr found out that Jordan Love was the pick. And listen, I just want to say, in a vacuum, I don't hate the fact. that they went up and got Jordan Love.

I think it's a smart move to look ahead quarterback-wise, and the kid has a lot of potential, and maybe that isn't a terrible thing. But clearly the communication to Rogers before and importantly after has been deficient in his eyes. And it's also the only aggressive move they made the entire off-season. And so basically, I think the message Aaron felt he got was, okay, you just swooped up and drafted by replacement. You're not loading up for the present.

You clearly are looking ahead to move on. Fine. I'll bite my lip, channel my frustration, make Alan Lazard and Robert Tanya and all these guys look like stars. And that's not a slight on them. Everyone looks better when you're with Aaron. and try to win a Super Bowl. And then when he fell short against a great quarterback whose team had loaded up around him,

he acted out a little bit in the press conference. And I said at the time, I believe his message is, hey, get after it like they get after it for Brady. And they not only didn't get after it, but they didn't do the one thing that could have freed up cap space, giving him more money, and assured him we're not trying to push you out. out and that all could have been done with one contract extension.

And maybe they offered something and we don't know the details, but whatever it was that could have solved it with that swoop or at least made it better, hasn't been able to happen. And then you hear things, you know, we've seen the reports that he was upset that Jake Kumero got cut, a receiver trying to make the team that he, I guess, thought should have made. it. So again, in a vacuum, you look at that and go, oh, my God, what a diva. He's just whining because he doesn't get to pick the players. Okay. But A, he said publicly, for better or worse,

this guy's going to make the team, and then they cut him the next day. So I think he probably felt they embarrassed them and didn't communicate. Secondly, listen, I've been doing this a long time. There are a lot of great players or a lot of important players who've had guys on the team that they wanted on the team. I'll give you an example. Hey, we got her, Mike. We only got 20 seconds. Okay, Andrew Luck had Griff Whalen on the team for years.

I promised you that was management saying, I know that's your guy. He went to Stanford with you. We're going to keep him around. That was very well done. Very quickly, Mike's over. Now we've got to go. Thanks, buddy.

And Philibustered. Yes. I mean, that's what we do here. Therapy is fantastic. But once again, it does not have a monopoly on healing. That's why I create the resources and that's why I create the community because I really just want you to have more access. On the podcast, Cultivating HerSpace, Dr. Dom and Terry Lomax create a space where black women can show up fully and be heard. It's tough because we're suppressing our emotions and so many of us are like high achieving individuals.

Listen to cultivating her space on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Your husband is not who you think he is. Your body is not what you thought it was. Your identity is formed by a secret history. I'm Danny Shapiro, and these are just a few of the stunning stories I'll be exploring on the 14th season of Family Secrets. He kind of shoved me out of the way and said, move. And he went out the front door and he jumped in a car and drove off. And that was the last time I saw him.

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