The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 06/01/2021 - HOUR 1 - Packers, Rodgers, Simmons

Episode Date: June 1, 2021

Why are the Packers leaking information?Aaron Rodgers was never a perfect fit for Green BayBen Simmons doesn't care about becoming a good shooterMental health in professional sportsGuest: J.A. Adande Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

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Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I put on 10. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hard Way with your favorite therapist and host, Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor? It signals to the world that you're not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to. Listen to learn the hard way on the IHard radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

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The Lakers season will get gloomier tonight. I like the Suns to win. I'll talk about that in about 15 minutes. Joy Taylor is joining me today. Joy, how are you? I'm great. Another fan out of the stands last night. Oh, Lord.

I was wondering what was going through Dwight hours of mine. Like, I can see Dwight leaning over him. Like, I don't know if he said something to him or what was going on. But it was, as usual, a scene. It was a scene. I do want to start with this, though. I think this is very interesting. So if you listen to me, you know I've always said,

information only gets out if one of the parties wants it out. I've got all sorts of secrets in broadcasting, and I've never seen them printed because I don't want them out. Fox has all sorts of secrets that I've never seen printed. They don't want them out. Stuff gets out if somebody wants it out. So Green Bay, it's crazy. The coincidences here are amazing. Once again, it is leaked from the Packer's side.

We will not trade Aaron Rogers. That got out because they want it out. And they want Aaron to see it and Aaron's agent to see it and you to see it. You being America and the fans of the Packers. Now, for the record, Aaron doesn't have to show up contractually to the OTAs. It doesn't really matter. In a week, they have mandatory mini-camp. Then it'll get interesting.

If Aaron doesn't show up for that, they can find him a lot of money. Can, don't have to, can. But it is interesting. We know that teams have all the power in this stuff, right? in the NFL, they have all the power. It's the weakest players union. Even though it is really a star-driven league, especially quarterbacks, it's not viewed like the NBA.

The CBA favors the players in the NBA. It favors the owners and the teams in the NFL. But it is interesting that when Russell Wilson voiced unhappiness, the Seahawks folded immediately. And that's interesting. Aaron has gone public for three to four years with his unhappiness. And they've never once folded. This is his nuclear option.

I'm not showing up to OTAs. And they still won't fold. Now, why would that be? And I want you to think about this. Aaron's clearly the more decorated of the two. He's got three MVP's. Russell Wilson can't get an MVP vote. He's got more national commercials.

he's more known. I mean, Green Bay feels like a small town that lives and dies by the quality of their quarterback. But yet, why did Seattle fold with a Hall of Fame head coach and a loyal fan base and Green Bay won't? Now, you could argue, well, Seattle's in a brutal division. You can't screw around with quarterback. Green Bay's in a weaker division that maybe they could win about 9, 10 games with a backup quarterback. You can certainly argue that, but I think both of us realize neither Seattle or Green Bay has a successor to the throne. I don't buy in Jordan Love.

So why would Green Bay not only not fold won't even budge and continues to push, push, push, push? I want you to think about this. Because Joy and I can both attest I'll speak. I won't speak for her. I'll speak for me. Big corporations don't like bad PR. They generally fold. Big corporations do not like bad PR.

The stock price can go down. Advertisers can flee. Bad PR for Aaron Rogers and Russell Wilson. They're individuals. What do they give a rip? Sometimes it makes you more of a dog, more of an alpha. You know, you're like, you're more of an independent guy. Fans love that, right?

The barstool brand. We're not corporation. And sometimes bad news is strangely good news. And you've seen that with certain conservative talk show hosts where that's bad PR. No, it's good PR. I can't. But corporations don't like bad PR. And this is bad PR for Green Bay, right?

And it was bad PR for Seattle, but Seattle folded. Think about this. Comedians always say you've got to know the room before you tell the jokes. Some stuff works in the South. Some stuff's funnier in New York or L.A. that wouldn't play in the Midwest. Seattle is techie, young, millennial,

a very independent city, geographically and emotionally, I'm from there. They're anti-corporation. They'll support the individual. So those phone lines in Seattle supported Russell Wilson. Screw the Seahawks.

Who were they before Russell Wilson? Green Bay is the Midwest. You put your head down. You're a four. farmer. Don't get too cool for the room, hot shot. Did Aaron, like a bad comedian, simply misjudge the room and the temperature in it? Russell Wilson often goes to the internet, Instagram. He's at children's hospitals. Even when he was struggling with management, he releases those workout videos. I am grinding for you. Fans love that. I am putting. I am putting

in 12 hours in the Arizona Sun. That's where he trains. It's 109. I'm out here. Working, grinding for you. Go Hawks. Aaron posts Hawaii pictures

with his celebrity friends on guitar. Ponytail doesn't really resonate in Milwaukee. When Russell handled his situation, it felt sincere that he was genuinely

hurt that he loves his team. He wants to be a Seahawk forever. Aaron's was held to a different level of pettiness. He released information to multiple reporters on draft day to humiliate the franchise. He did not only skip OTAs, but so did all his best receivers, almost as if it was orchestrated. Aaron, I believe, has misjudged his popularity in Green Bay. He's never been a perfect fit. He's California cool. They wear cheese hats in their 40s and 50s. But Green Bay's front office listens to Milwaukee Radio, hears from their fans. They still write letters and go to Yahoo and send them emails. And the fans in Green Bay are not defending

and yelling at the organization. Brian Gudenkundt and Mark Murphy are hearing fans say, let's move on. He's abandoned us. He's not one of us. In Seattle, it was different. Russell Wilson at Children's Hospitals, grinding in the Arizona heat in the off-season.

Go Hawks. This stuff matters. Why do the Packers refused to fold and keep leaking stories were not budging. Seattle folded in a day. I mean, they got Pete Carroll. He's a Hall of Famer.

Like Pete Carroll needs to fold for anybody? He's going to be in Canton. It's interesting to watch the two organizations. Green Bay's executives have now leaked multiple times in the last two weeks, we're not budging. And my opinion is, I have watched major teams and corporations through the years react to bad press. And Green Bay's executives aren't getting bad press from their fans. They've been through this before with Fav and it worked out okay.

And maybe they're misguided and Jordan loves terrible and they'll be bad forever. But it is interesting to me why C. Seattle folds and Green Bay won't. You would think, right? Like Green Bay needs Farr, more than Seattle, a more sophisticated city, Seattle gets free agents. Green Bay can never get free agents.

They couldn't get a free agent quarterback of Jordan Love Camp play. But I think Aaron, to some degree, has misjudged the temperature in the room. That he feels like he's abandoning, celebrity friends in Hawaii, doing jeopardy. A lot of people in the Midwest are saying, He ain't one of us.

He's not us. He's not, he's abandoning us. And I think Green Bay's front office hears it and senses it. And we had a talk show host, former Packer that hosts a show, LaRoy Butler, remember him coming on saying his audience in Milwaukee is popular show. Pro Packer, anti-Aaron. I can assure you having grown up in the Northwest, it was the opposite with Russell Wilson. It was get rid of the GM, get rid of the coach, Russell's our guy.

This stuff matters. I just, I'm trying to figure out why one franchise folded and why the other keeps leaking, doubling, tripling, quadrupling down on, we're not budging. I think a lot of it is one quarterback is seen as part of the city and one as seen as really talented, but has always had one foot out the door. Interesting story last night.

So years ago, I covered a series, Lakers and Blazers. It was the Kobe Shack, the Alleyoop Slam Dunk series. Portland took them seven games. It's probably the best basketball series I've ever covered that wasn't the finals. It was unbelievable. Those were the two best teams in the league. The Lakers went on to beat Indiana. Portland would have beaten Indiana.

It was an unbelievable series. You had Stars, Rashid, and Shaq and Kobe, Scotty Pippin, and Arvita Sabonis and Damon Stoddemeier. It was just talent everywhere in the floor. Steve Smith could have played. Remember Steve Smith played Michigan State Star, I think Atlanta for years. It was just nothing but talent. There was like 9 to 10 All-Star Level players.

Every game was crazy. And it was all these iconic players. But at one point, Mike Dunlevy was doing. some hack-a-shack. Remember they foul shack? And I'm telling you, in Staples Center, there were fans. I didn't, Dundleave he needed security. So last night, it's a tactic.

Washington, the Wizards did that on Ben Simmons. Now, the Lakers would often take Shaq out latent games if they could. They didn't want to, if they could. Doc Rivers said last night, I'm not taking Ben Simmons out. And I want to defend Ben Simmons, but I do have a concern. And it's not a shooting. It's something connected to a shooting that bothers me. And I've seen it now three to four straight years.

Interesting tactic. Doc Rivers would not take him off to Florida. He missed a bunch of free throw. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHard Radio app. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying.

Yep, that's me, Clivert Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream,

this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you can at your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced

games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having

trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J.

And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 was big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack, so I'm starting to see that there's a through line.

We also have AIDS on the table right now, so... Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes, I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years. from black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing,

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Open your free iHeartRadio app, search Learn the Hardway, and listen now. So last night in an NBA game, Philadelphia is going to beat Washington, but Washington, Scotty Brooks, the head coach, employed a strategy. Let's foul Ben Simmons, who's an amazing player, but he can't shoot. And his free throw percentage has never been good for a guard like 60% in the playoffs. It's like 50%. So they fouled him over and over and over. And Doc Rivers, and I agree with Doc. Doc's like, I'm not taking him off the floor.

He's Ben Simmons. And the media is like, how do you have him in there? And it's like he's our point guard. He's Ben Simmons. So let me just say this about Ben Simmons. I'm a fan. And I've been saying this for years. He does three things at a plus level.

Passing A plus, defending A plus, the ability to finish at the rim A plus. So I like Ben Simmons. It's not that he can't shoot. I wish he was better at that. But Magic Johnson came into this league and it looked like he was shoot a set shot. What concerns me with Ben Simmons, and I don't think you can modify this or change this or coach this up, is his casualness, his lack of nonchalance,

his like, this is basketball. That worries me. Zion can't shoot yet, but Zion has that Kobe LeBron thing where every offseason, and I'm not asking everybody to be Kobe and LeBron, like I get it. Michael Jordan, I understand. Not everybody is that. That's unrealistic to be Brady. But what always turns me off for people I've hired and in pro athletes is the nonchalant.

Does it matter to you? And with Ben Simmons, four years, he's not improving at the shooting. He's just not putting time in. And that's what worries me. And I'm a fan of Simmons. But there's three types of pro athletes. There's three levels of pro athletes. Marginally talented, but they work their ass off.

And you just keep them on a roster. They just, they're good in the room. They work. They don't have a 48-inch vertical. They're not great shooters. And the league's full of these guys. They're on the bench. but they work hard, they're coachable.

The second level is super talented, but apathetic. They got their money, they're good, they show up occasionally. Then there's the third level, which is hard to hold anybody to. That's Kobe. They're talented and obsessive. So that's like 1%. And I'm being generous. I'm one, one and a half percent.

I think Simmons is in the second one. If it's A, B, and C, he's B. He is really, really talented, absolutely gifted, but I'm not sure he cares. And I've got to be honest with you. I think it's harder and harder to find guys who are obsessive. Athletes now can make $10 to $15,000 to $20,000 on a tweet. They can make $100 to $200,000 on an Instagram post. The shoe companies are pouring money into athletes.

So money's coming in, seven different revenue streams. I'm already great at this, this, this. I'm making the playoffs. I'm making money. What worries me about Simmons is not that he's not a great shooter. Not everybody is a great shooter. It's that it's not getting better. It's that he's not bothered by it.

That he's not really going into an off-season. I can remember LeBron J. And LeBron, again, it's hard to hold anybody to LeBron's standards. But remember when LeBron went to Miami, had the Dallas series, and struggled posting people up. And we all finally found a hole in LeBron's game. It's like, oh, wait, he's got no low post game. He couldn't post up J.J. Brea. The next year, in an offseason, LeBron comes back.

And it's like, okay, he solved that problem. That's what the great ones do. I mean, there's some things athletically, Tom Brady is never going to be blank. But he keeps – and this is what I've said about Lamar Jackson. I have defended Lamar Jackson. Lamar's not perfect. He throws a little bit of an ugly football. Every year, he changes his traps.

He changes his body. He works at it. He is committed. He is bothered by losing. I mean, you can see Lamar Jackson during games. He can't hide the frustration. He is furious with himself when he loses. God, I love that quality.

I love that quality in Lamar Jackson. He is so bothered when he loses. He's as mad at himself as the guy in the upper deck. and sometimes with Ben Simmons, this the nonchalance and, man, what is, man? He had a quote here yesterday. There's just basketball. I don't know if you can change that. Like, I don't think you can teach what Lamar has, that reservoir of self-imposed pressure.

You can't coach it. Lamar's got it. It's innate. He's probably had it since he was five. If you went to his parents and asked him, it's like, oh, that's the way he was doing that and that's the way he was. And I don't think you can. upgrade it if you're nonchalant.

Like I just think that it, like I've said this about Drew Locke, Denver Bronco quarterback, Jay Cutler, they're too casual. You can't teach, it's just like, this is who they are. And that's what worries me about Ben Simmons. Zion can't shoot either. But what I see in Zion is this need to fix his issues. Nonchalant, it's just, it's just, what do you do with it? What do you do with it?

That's what worries me about Ben Simmons. the news. No, no, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. Well, I feel like a broken record. I think we've done this story every day for the past week, but there was another fan incident at the game last night during the third quarter of the Wizard's Sixers game.

A fan ran onto the court, jumped up and touched the backboard before being tackled by security. A great tackle, by the way. Washington announced that the fan has been banned from the arena and charges are being pursued. No, no, Joy, it was a little confusing. Was he pursuing a player or he just wanted to, I didn't understand, I didn't got, the video confused me. There was a fan that was kind of far up that I think just happened to be recording who got a good view of it. And the guy just jumped up out of his seat and ran down the steps, ran through the court, like ran around and then just jumped up and touched the backboard.

And then by the time he came down, the security was there and tackled him. So I think it was just one of those dorks who was trying to get attention because his life is pathetic. So after the game, Wizards coach Scott Brooks gave his opinion how fans have been behaving. leaving recently. It's unfortunate that one fan here and there, it ruined it for everyone. There's great fans in Boston, in New York, in Philly, in D.C., in Utah. But there's some that need to just know, you know what, stay home. You're thinking is barbaric.

Stay home. We don't need you. We don't need your dollars. Just stay home. Get away from us. All facts. They'll disagree with any of it. Yeah.

I like the term barbaric too because it really is just like a lot of exhibits of no home training. I just I don't understand what the purpose of it is. I guess it's attention. Some of it I guess is hostility if you're throwing things. This is obviously just an attention move. But it's what's concerning for me as well, I don't think that any of these guys are tough guys. We are in a space where people are acting really crazy.

And I wouldn't blame any of these players if they got uncomfortable. You remember a couple years ago, the fans that was sitting court side ran up to Russell Westbrook after the game. Yeah. Oh, God. Yeah. Like, if you're a player, you're you. If some guy is just running at you, what are you going to do? Oh, no, no. Listen, this is, you know, it, I talked about this yesterday, is that I understand that basketball fans, the proximity to players is really close. Right. I do get that. It's very intimate. And I, I mean, I've gone to NBA games. I'm sure you have. And you can talk to players. Yeah. It's insane.

Like they'll, they notice who's on the front. I mean, I've had players talk to me while they play. It sounds absurd. But it, so I understand that. And sometimes fans, four or five beers in, you know, sometimes Spike Lee, I'm like, sit down, please. I mean, our fans, endoxious. And so even people that are well adjusted sometimes go a little over the top. But I do think a lot of this joy, and I'm, I'm just going to throw this out there.

I think it's a mental health thing. I think this country, I'm on an airlines, a great airline. Sunday flying home from Salt Lake City and two people had to be thrown off the plane and they weren't even serving cocktails yet like between the masks and inside and it's you are just seeing this

on so many levels and I just don't know what the solve is maybe it has something to do with this because none of this is new right we know fans have been doing this forever in all sports but I've done this story every day like it's crazy there's been so many incidents it's enough already I don't know what the NBA can do

like guys we just we just Just remember, like, it wasn't that long ago. You couldn't go to games. Like, you could not go to games. That's what's concerning to me is, like, these incidents happen all the time throughout the season. Like, we've all seen streakers. It happens.

But the consistency in which is happening is what's concerning. And to your point, we don't know if these people are entirely stable or not. What I don't want to see, what concerns me, and what's upsetting to me is, I don't want to see a player get concerned for his safety, which would be, completely justified, and then it gets violence, and then what happens? Well, listen, I went and looked a couple days ago at some videos. James Harrison, who comes on this show, the former Steeler, he tackled a fan. I grew up.

Mike Curtis was a great linebacker in the NFL. He tackled a fan. These NFL guys, they'll go right out. You run on the field in the NFL. They'll lay you out. Like, NBA guys usually just step away, and you're going to end up getting a really intense big in the NBA and he's going to deck you? It doesn't have to be a big. Russell Westbrook's not a big.

He is much bigger than you. I promise it, whoever it is you are. It doesn't even have to be a big. It just, I don't want that to happen because then what happens? Then the fan's going to sue the player and then sue the league. And it's like, it never ends. So the Jazz took a 3-1 series lead over the Grizzlies in last night's 120-11-13 win. Donovan Mitchell, clearly the key, led the team with 30 points.

Yeah. And the newly crowned sixth man of the year, Jordan Clarkson, at 24. Last year in the bubble, Utah blew a 3-1 lead over Denver. Yep. And we're eliminated in the first round. And they're hoping to avoid history repeating themselves. They have a chance to close things out at home on Wednesday. Joy, it's a really good team.

It's a really good basketball team. Well, yes, they are. But it's Utah, so they're quiet. And they're just doing a winning. Yes. They're going to be a problem, especially if the Lakers don't get it out of the series. I don't know. They're just very consistent.

And obviously it was Donovan Mitchell was the problem in the game that they lost. And he's back and he looks great. And he's doing his Donovan Mitchell thing. And he's a star. They got the defensive player of the year, Rudy Goebarrel win that. They've got an all-star Donovan Mitchell. They got six men of the year. Jordan Clarkson.

They have a great coach who's a defensive win, Quinn Snyder. We've got to give him credit. And they have the deepest bench in the league. And they're great at home. And they shoot free throws well. Like, this is a real good basketball team. And look, you can say what you want about the Grizzlies being young. But John Moran is a star.

and this has been a very competitive series. So, and I love the directions that the Grizzlies are going in. I think they're a few years away from contending for a championship, but this is really impressive what the jazz are doing. They're going to be a problem. So Naomi Osaka announced last week that she would not participate in press conferences during the French Open. She said there were certain questions that were affecting her mental health.

She did receive a $15,000 fine for not speaking after her first round win, and she was warned by all four Grand Slam tournaments that she could face different penalties, including disqualification or suspension if she continued to avoid the media. So she has decided to withdraw from the French Open and said she would be taking some time away from the court to focus on her well-being.

This was a huge story around sports, especially yesterday. By the way, I don't understand the pushback. So this is a great athlete. She's really young, there's high pressure. She says, I need to take some time away for mental health. That's the end of the story. Like, I mean, what? Well, people hold, and this is the same conversation we've just been having about fans running onto the court and, you know, like dehumanizing athletes.

People hold athletes to these unrealistic standards that they don't hold anybody else to. You're absolutely right. And she's been very clear. She's a shy person. Yeah. What's the number one fear that everyone has? Public speaking. Public speaking.

She feels very uncomfortable. She gets waves of anxiety. Yeah. Speaking to the world's media, which you're speaking to at tennis tournaments. you're talking to so many people at these press conferences, and it makes her uncomfortable. She says she wears headphones when she's out there, like, warming up so she can lower her anxiety. She's very aware of what it is that keeps her healthy,

and the mental part of sports is much bigger. You talk to any professional athlete, any great athlete that's had an incredible career, they will tell you that the mental side is much more important than the physical side. We all see great bodies at L.A. Fitness. Why aren't they professional athletes? Right. Like there is a space that your mental health, needs to be a priority in how you manage things.

And she's being very open about it. Yeah, by the way, and I don't have a problem with sports fining athletes because the reason athletes and tournaments and leagues do this is because if every player didn't talk. Right. So, like, I understand. Especially for a niche sport like tennis. Yeah.

So I understand the fines, but she could be such a star and make so much money at the end. She'll just pay the fines. She doesn't care. Well, I think her speaking about this and what happened with her is a good example of something that I've been talking about for years, which I think at the NFL is, has leaned into a lot when it comes to free agency and elevating stars. It's just come to a point where organizations and sports need to update their way of thinking, like join the rest of the world.

Athletes are making so much money away from sports. They can take some time off if they need to. They can go chill if they need to. Send a couple tweets to your point. Bank account doesn't change. And that's not a bad thing. It's a good thing. It means that everyone has a little bit more independence.

There's not a lopsided situation. So instead of meeting her with hostility, sit down and talk to her about how we can work together. How can we still do media to elevate the sport, to elevate you in the space that makes you feel comfortable? That doesn't mean you're giving up power. It means you're joining the rest of the world. It's 2021. That's how this works now. You know, this is a great jumping off point for our next guest.

Joy Taylor with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The herd line news. So this is interesting. It's so ironic that we have a director of sports journalism. J.A. Adondi joining us live on this. Brought to you by Mercedes-Benz the best or nothing.

So let me throw this out, J.A. Is that, you know, I don't have a problem with a young athlete saying, listen, man, this is eating me alive. It's a mental health issue. I'm not going to talk. To me, that's the end of the story. Like, I got six kids in my life. Two biological four-step kids.

I see the mental health. I see what social media does. My wife and I are dealing with this. all the time. And sometimes kids need a time out. They need time away. There's too much anxiety. So, and I think to myself, I'll throw this at you. You know this, JA very well. Some athletes are great talkers. Kobe. Some athletes, you know, some guys love the mic. Some don't. And I've never had a problem, Jay. If players, if 10% of a roster is allowed not to talk to the media for anxiety levels. But tennis is very interesting, Jay, because she's the star. There is no team.

Where do you fall on her situation, this marvelous talent that has real anxiety with this stuff? Well, she is right to prioritize her mental health and her well-being. And even if that's at the exclusion of playing tennis, she is right and she's in the right place. I believe she made a mistake. And I think it's common in a generation in having this play out throughout social media. And young people don't understand the difference between having a conversation and sharing through social. Social media is not a place to have a conversation. And this needed to be a conversation. She needed to talk to the organizers of the tournament and say, I'm uncomfortable.

I'm not well when I'm doing these press conferences. Is there a way I can not do it? She needed to have that in private. And maybe they could have worked something out. As you said, the tournament can't have everyone falling in line and saying, well, if she's not doing it, I'm not doing any media either. Things would fall apart and they wouldn't get the attention that they need. So if she could have done this in private and maybe this could have been handled, then they could have just said, Naomi Osaka will not be available for media.

And then you wouldn't have other people basically using hers as an excuse not to do it. I think that's where the thing. And people need to understand social media is not the place to have these conversations. The mistake was her putting it out there on social media without giving the organizers of the French Open a chance to respond. And then the way they responded wasn't very well either, right? They didn't have a private response either and put her on the spot and ultimately became untenable. Yeah, it's just a learning situation. Everybody's got to learn from this.

So by the way, I was just in Chicago a couple of weeks ago. You're in a great city. And Northwestern, for those watching, is as good a journalism school as the country has. probably number one. I couldn't qualify to get in. And AJ is the head of it. So that tells you the difference intellectually between the two of us. Jay is he runs the department.

I couldn't even qualify as a student to get in. So let me go to the fan stuff that's happening in America right now, overwhelmingly in NBA arenas. So I was on a flight Sunday, two people thrown off, a lot of attitude. And I'll tell you, it's a great airline. I'm not going to call them out. But they let the plane sit in a hot tarmac. The plane got hot.

We all get on. We wear masks. I'm a mask guy. I couldn't breathe. I had a dog next to me sitting on me. We got people on the flight. The plane's 140 degrees. We're wearing masks.

The AC's not very good. And I think to myself, some of this is mental health. When I look at the NBA stuff, I'm like, is it just a nation on edge? Or am I being too sympathetic and it's just bad actors here? I mean, what do you see when you see this stuff? Is there a racial component? How do you view it, Jay? I think America is reverting to its default state.

This is the normal state of affairs in America. Joy alluded to it earlier, that we've seen this happen before. And we've seen these type of incidents happen in these same places. People throwing things at players in Philadelphia. People saying racially charged comments to players or players' families in Utah. So really, there's not very much new. Washington actually doesn't have a history of things like this. But generally, the things we're seeing happen.

We've seen happen before, and we've seen similar things happen in these same places. I think it's just condensed because we haven't had people in arenas in a year. And now that they're all there, it's all happening within a short time span. But I think if we were to allow this to play out, it would just be America reverting to normal. One more point I want to make on Amid Asaka. You know, someone who boycotted his media responsibilities, Michael Jordan every year at the All-Star game, He wouldn't do the media availability. He would just take the fine.

You know someone who walked away from the sport in order to focus on mental health? The burden became too much. Michael Jordan. And I'm not comparing Naomi Asaka to Michael Jordan, but he's someone who at the peak did similar things. And so I think we need to have some allowance for Naomi Osaka to do some of these same things and to behave in a similar manner as someone that we revere throughout sports. That's Michael Jordan. That's great point.

By the way, you covered Michael Jordan, as you recall. I know that. Chicago Sun Times. You covered Kobe and the Lakers for the LA Times. So you've, and now again, Jay Adonda is the director of sports journalism at Northwestern, which I was driving by a couple of weeks ago in beautiful north suburbs of Chicago. So, you know, it's interesting. I said this. LeBron has been bouncing, this is my theory on it. He's been bouncing around the league trying to find his Scotty Pippen, somebody that's healthy, committed, in his prime, and can be his Robin. And he went to Miami and D. Wade was old and beat up and missed games. And then he goes

back to Cleveland and Kyrie's a little bit of a flake. And then he goes to Los Angeles and AD can't stay healthy. And it's like you can run but you can't hide from your problems. And I look at LeBron right now, J.A. And I think to myself, his career now, as committed as he is, his career has come down to a finger cross, to luck. If AD is not healthy, the titles are over. and AD increasingly is not healthy. I mean, that's how I view the Lakers going forward. Your thoughts? Similar, because I thought a couple years ago that LeBrona needed to be the second best

player in the team. He needed to have the challenge of finding someone who could be better than LeBron. And Anthony Davis was that for a while, in particular through the first round or two of the playoffs last year. And then LeBron reasserted himself. And I'm not sure at this point, at this stage, especially dealing, still dealing with this high ankle sprain, can LeBron? be the best player on a championship team right now at age 36 with all the mileage on him.

I'm not sure. And so, yes, he needs Anthony Davis to not only be Scotty Pippen. Actually, he needs Anthony Davis to be Michael Jordan, I think. And LeBron could be entering the Pippin phase of his career. Maybe he still has enough and he gets past the sons and he can lead the Lakers to a championship. I'm not completely riding him off. But I think we have to adjust for the aging and the mileage that's on LeBron. realize that he can't play the role of Superman forever.

Great seeing you again, Jay Adonde, who's covered all the big teams, the biggest cities in this country, and now Director of Sports Journalism at Northwestern. What a job title, by the way. A great seeing you, Jay, thanks. I loved his perspective on that. It was a great point. Michael Jordan took breaks because it was exhausting him. Remember, his father was murdered?

and Michael, like, just stepped back. Michael was so big in America. I mean, think about this. I know this doesn't sound like a problem to all of you listening. Michael could not go eat. He could not go to a theater. He could not live a life. He would stay in his hotel room.

I remember seeing a picture during the Michael Jordan documentary. He's smoking a cigar, drinking orange juice, and he's just like, man, I'm over this. He couldn't even go to a nightclub. Every other player could go to a club. Michael couldn't. Michael had to build a restaurant and then build a room in the restaurant. He could go eat. I'm dead serious.

Like, that's how big Michael was. You forget in my lifetime, LeBron is great. I've seen LeBron in Brentwood having pizza. Nobody bothers him. Yeah, I mean, it is a different world now. People feel like they have a little more access to stars than they did with Michael Jordan. They often do on social media. Well, yeah, I'm saying.

Like, the times of, you know, Michael Jackson and Prince and Michael Jordan and Madonna, like the worship that. celebrities got Elvis Presley. I think that has dwindled a little bit because you feel like you have more access to them. You can see them or you can go to their YouTube page. You can go to their Instagram. You can maybe interact with them on Twitter. So they feel a little bit more accessible. But yeah, he's absolutely right.

Like this is not new. As with most things, this is not new. We've seen it before. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting conversation. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays and noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. Hey, it's me.

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And I thought it was interesting. I watched Utah beat Memphis last night. And Memphis could be Utah, but they're about a year away. It's a baby step league. You've got to go through the process. But Utah's really funny to me. Utah's Gonzaga basketball. Gonzaga goes 31 and 1.

And yet it's the one loss that everybody clings to. You know, Baylor was pretty good. They got a bunch of NBA player. But that loss, well, Gonzaga's. soft. Really? In the last five years, Gonzaga has 27 more wins than any other college basketball program, including Duke. They have three more tournament wins than any other program, including Kentucky, Duke, Syracuse. 31 and one, most by blowouts, but Gonzaga soft. It's hard for people to envision something until they see something. Gonzaga has not won the big game yet. They've been

close once and the other time they got blown out. This is Utah. Number one seed. comeback player of the year, All-Star Guard, Rudy Gobert, great coach, best home court record, one of the best three-point shooting teams, more wins than any team in the league this year. But if you look at the four winningest teams in the NBA since 1995, this is quite a sample we took this morning. Spurs, Jazz, Lakers, Heat. Spurs have five titles.

Lakers have five titles. Heat have three titles. Jazz have none. And so for people just in terms, until Gonzaga, and they came within a basket of winning a title. But until that ball goes through the net and their champions, they said this about Villanova for years. Remember about Villanova?

They, Roli Massimino won, and it was like, Jay Wright. I mean, they were great forever, and they finally broke through. Nobody says it. All the bad stuff gets a race. Villanova now is clutch. Boy, you can trust Villanova. Gonzaga was within a basket of winning, and now they're 31 and 1. All people talk about is the one.

that defines them. Oh, they're just soft. They can't play physical. Well, they play physical all the time. They play Kansas. They play Big Ten teams. And they beat them sometimes mostly badly. But that's the Utah Jazz.

Until we see it, we just can't buy it. But I'm watching them against Memphis. I think they're the deepest team in terms of people that can hit a three. Everywhere Quinn Snyder goes, college or pro, defense is great immediately. They've got as good a rim protector outside of Janus as the league has. They've got a great all-star guard. They've got tons of depth. They have the comeback player of the year.

On any given night in a playoff game, six guys are in double figures. But we just can't. I've never seen a team that's a number one seed. Nobody's talking about them. I mean, the networks just bury them. And it's like, we may want to pay attention. They are pretty good.

I don't know if they'll win it. But I will say this right now, Donovan Mitchell, who was hurt before the playoffs. If he's healthy, they are going to be a really, really tough out. Some thoughts on the Lakers. They play the Sons tonight. I think mostly, I'll just put it out there.

I like Phoenix tonight and I like Phoenix in the series. And it'll be fun. Hour 2 in L.A. around the corner. It's the hurt. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk

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on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits.

my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it.

Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all?

You're listening to learn the hard way with your, favorite therapist and hosts care games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor? It signals to the world that you're not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to, listen to learn the hard way on the IHard radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your

podcast. This is an IHart podcast. Guaranteed human.