The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 06/03/2021 - HOUR 3 - Celtics, AD, Coach K

Episode Date: June 3, 2021

Colin believes the USFL can succeed this time aroundWhy Duke HC Mike Krzyzewski is retiring after next seasonGuests: Doug Flutie, Mike Krzyzewski Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me.

84 was big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. It was a wild year.

I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Thanks for listening to The Heard podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday from 12 to 3 Eastern, 9 to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and FS1. Find your local station for the herd at Fox Sports Radio. Or stream us live every day on the iHeart Radio app by searching Heard. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.

Ah, here we go, hour three, live in Los Angeles. It's the herd, wherever you may be and however you may be listening. Iheart Radio, Fox Sports Radio, FS1, Joy Taylor, joining us. So, Joy, if you ever had something where you know you're right, it's just going to take a while to prove people you're right, and you're wrong a bunch of times with it, but you know you're right, you know it will work, but you have to eat kind of a dirt sandwich for years.

I'll give you an example. When the Lakers chose Kobe over Shaq, I've said this before. I knew I was right that Kobe was the right guy to keep of the two, that Shaq was a little goofier, less committed, his body was falling apart. But Shaq went over to De Wade, Pat Riley in Miami, and Gary Payton, and it's like they're going to win. And Kobe's going to look like the loser in this deal for a couple of years until they get him a star.

So I knew I was, I knew choosing Kobe, who was committed, his body was in better shape. He had much more runway. But for the first couple years, I got all these people. Told you, told you, told you. I'll give you another one. Tebow. When Tebow was winning six straight games, I knew I was right. Because I had people inside the building in Denver, people inside the building with the Patriots that were like, he can't throw.

But I, you know, I had to sit there for six or seven weeks and listen to, you know, people tell me he's great. I'm like, no, no, no. It's not going to work. Yeah. I mean, when you think macro naturally, sometimes you have to wait for things to play out. Right. So it's a slow play. I'm currently slow playing several things.

It's fine. You're totally right. So I'll give you another one. And now I haven't been proven right yet. So I'm in the wrong stage on this. But I'm absolutely sure I'm right. Spring football, spring professional football will work in America. Yes.

Forget the football. It'll be gambling with these sports gambling companies like, candle exploding all over America. It's a gambling mechanism. Well, gambling is a huge part of it, but we also talk about this all the time. And here's another reason why you're definitely right. Sports and politics are the last live things on television, guys. That's it.

Sports politics. Okay. So spring football, Fox is announcing today. It's already been on like social media. They're bringing the USFL back. So the USFL, Jim Kelly, Doug Flutie, Steve Young, had great players, had great players. Had great players. Crazy. And, you know, I'm not going to say who brought it down.

I'll just get out of that space. But the whole point is we had a year ago, was it a year ago we had XFL? Yeah. The ratings were beating hockey. The ratings beat the NBA. And the pandemic hit. And let me just tell you something. If you start a business and a pandemic hits, the chance.

of you surviving, if you just opened a restaurant a year and a half ago, and a month in a pandemic hit, you're out of business. The restaurants that survived the pandemic, great chefs, great brands, great, in Manhattan Beach, customer base. Yeah, in Manhattan Beach when I, when I lived there, the restaurants that survived were well funded, been around, had loyal customers, the places that just opened, big trouble. Spring football is going to work in America. I'm absolutely sure. Now, I've been proven wrong. three times. We got a pandemic. We had Vince McMahon the first time was too goofy with it. It just, you know, the XFL and he hate me. It was funny, but it didn't. XFL, I believe,

would have worked. So the USFL is coming back. I know I'm right on this. I knew I was right on Tebow. I knew I was right on Kobe. But I'm in the wrong stage right now. So you can send me all the hate and I'll deal with it for a couple years. But this time next year, we'll have had our first USFL season and Doug Flutie's going to join us. I'm absolutely, I didn't know if you were going to support this or not. I'm sure. Oh, yeah. No, I mean, I support putting any kind of sporting event on television because it's what people watch live. There's now in our job because free agency in the NFL has become so vibrant and dynamic in March. There's only about six dead weeks in our business anymore.

NFL season ends for the next six to seven weeks. That is it. That's where the USFL goes. You don't think I'm going to talk about? Of course. Hey, I just won 150 bucks last night betting NBA basketball. You're rolling right now. Like an ATM machine right here.

You give me more football to bet on. Listen, Fox likes football. We love college football. We love the NFL. America loves football. I know, but Fox is, we are the football brand. Fox loves. We're America's brand.

That's right. And we're America's honesty broker. So the whole thing works. Doug Flutie in a few minutes. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeard Radio app. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clivert Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or we're

you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes

for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people.

I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s.

To be clear, 84 was big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack, so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now, so... Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes, I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really?

Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years. for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own

experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that We don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses.

Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Keer Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth,

fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Doug Williams' football life is absolutely fascinating. Doug Flutie was available to go to the NFL when you had to be six, four to be a quarterback. Those were the rules. Doug Flutie goes to Canadian football and is arguably the most dominant player in the history of the league six time. MVP, most outstanding player.

They won three great cups. In college, you won the Heisman trophy at Boston College. Now, let's just say this. Nobody wins the Heisman at Boston College. That's not the way it works. Here at Notre Dame, he did. Goes to the USFL. Star.

Goes to the NFL. Go look up his numbers. Doug Flutie could flat play. He's a pro bowler, comeback player of the year. Nobody is as well-traveled from high school to college, Canadian, USFL, NFL, NFL, Dude won everywhere. But he had to overcome the, well, Doug's of, you know, he's 510, 5.9. Just a different world.

Doug Flutie is available today on the market. He's a first round pick. There's no question about that. He's a first round pick. And Doug, the former USFL star, USFL's coming back to Fox. This time next year, joins us live. Look at that hat. Okay.

So take me back. If I had never seen the USFL, share. with my audience what it was like. USFL came out and was playing in the spring. It was an option to NFL players at the time because there was no leverage in the NFL. So the USFL started stealing a lot of NFL players. It was NFL caliber football, Jim Kelly, Steve Young, myself, Herschel Walker. Kent was our center.

Kent was a perennial pro bowler as a center with Buffalo. You name it. There was talent. The year after the USFL folded up, 15 USFL players played in the NFL Pro Bowl. Wow. It was NFL football. No doubt about it, but the difference was we were playing in the spring. And in the spring, we had our own audience.

We had a contract with ABC. We were on national TV. Some of the franchises did extremely well. The problem is it was a small league. So the lower tier teams that don't win don't draw and they lose money. Right. The higher tier teams that are. exceptionally well. We did well. Baltimore, Jacksonville, Drew. And that's why there are teams in

Baltimore and Jacksonville today because of the success of the USFL back in those cities, putting football back in those cities. And, you know, it was, it was the problem was that the top half the league had to pull the bottom of a half league along. Yeah. By the way, I watched the XFL last year, and Doug, I strongly believe had the pandemic not hit, it would have worked. The ratings were actually Joey and I talked about it, shockingly good. I've always believed spring football can work. And I also think in a weird way, I don't know if the USFL at Fox will be like this,

but if I was an NFL, I'd kind of like it. It's almost like it's better than college. I can see if Doug Flutie can play, right? Absolutely. It can be a testing ground for those marginal guys. It can be a testing ground for guys that maybe drafted them late ground and they didn't make your roster, you're not sure because you didn't have time, all those types think.

The fact that they're playing in the spring, people love football. The bottom line is we all love watching football. And if it's real football in the spread, people watch spring games, Colin. Spring games, it's touched football. It's like the coaches cringe. It's not really a game. They don't even hit each other anymore. And you get 50,000 people in the stands and people watching it on TV.

People love football, the exposure in the spring. It could be a feeder ground for the NFL. But the plan would be, within five, six years to be, you know, competing for players. You know, what's interesting about this, Doug, there's two reasons why I think the USFL is going to work. Gambling is exploded. It gives us something else to bet on.

The second thing is there's more good quarterbacks than ever now because of quarterback camps and seven-on-seven. They got to go somewhere. We're seeing four and five guys. I mean, seriously, Doug, it used to be if you could get, I mean, seriously, one great quarterback in the first round. maybe two. There's the L-Way Marino class. Good God, we got four and five guys now, right? So I just think there's too many good quarterbacks in this world not to work in the USFL.

Your thoughts on that? I agree. There's so many talented guys now that they're taking it more seriously early on and the bigger numbers are coming out. But also the smaller guys that are running these spread offenses are having success. So the variance of offenses has allowed more guys to be successful at the position. So you get the Kyler Murray's at 5-10 out there, balling on the NFL field, and you still have your Josh Allen's in Buffalo that are 6-4 and slinging it around. It's just amazing that there's a lot more open-mindedness now to how to run an offense, and it's allowed more guys to be successful.

So it's open the door for the athletic quarterback as well. Let me ask an Aaron Rogers question. He's all over the news. He's sitting out, blah, blah, blah, and Green Bay is not budging. A lot of the criticism to Green Bay is, could you communicate? Just talk to him. It's not that difficult. And I say that, and I think, you know, Aaron can be sometimes.

He's a star. He's a California guy, date celebrities. Maybe Green Bay doesn't know us feel comfortable calling him before drafts. When you were playing in the NFL, was communication ever a problem? Is there a divide between management and player? I was never in a position to be that guy to make it demand, to go to the front office. say we should be drafting here or drafting there or I want out. I was just fighting for a roster spot.

But I've never heard of Tom Brady going to front office and say, we should be drafting this, drafting that. I just, the communication can be there. I think there is a disconnect. I think, you know, because when the day comes that you're,

everyone's expendable at some point. So I don't see too many players. You know, NBA is different because it's such a small number of guys. the players have a lot more say. Not so much in the NFL. Yeah, no, I think you're right. And especially now that we have so many good young quarterbacks,

you know, I worry because Jordan Love's been there a year, and he's struggling at practice. And I think to myself, God, he played 31 college games. It shouldn't take this long. I mean, Justin Herbert, Joe Burrow, didn't even have camp last year, and they were great. When would you know, would it concern you that Jordan Love's already been there a year and he's still not ready to play?

I mean, did you see late develop? You were ready to play. you were a star in Canada, star USFL. Does it worry you about that? A little bit. I think that with all the off-season work that these guys have these days, back in our day, you had a little bit of a mini-camp, but you

learn the offense and training camp. You learn, now they have all off-season. They're working together, and guys are up to speed right away, and they're ready to play that first season because they have so much time in the off-season, and teams make a commitment to that guy. Now, that being said, you need time

on the field. Peyton Manning wasn't a star year one, right? It takes that playing time on the field, getting used to game situations, running your offense, calling the shots on the field to you work into that role. That's why back in our day, you sat the bench for a few years before we've been getting the opportunity. But they can see a lot of things, and Jordan loved during the offseason, and obviously they're not sold on the fact that he is the next franchise guy. By the way, Reggie White, I was just thinking about it. Reggie White played in the USFL. 15 guys came

from the USFL first year made the Pro Bowl. That tells you the quality of it. By the way, one more USFL question. It's here on Fox starting next spring. You were about, did you run a lot? What were your stats like? You were on a winning team with the generals, I remember. What were your stats like? Yeah. My stats were horrible.

I swear, I had a dead arm. I had played my college season, took three or four weeks off and went right into camp. And then played in 18. game season. And at the end of the year, Reggie White actually broke my collarbone. Oh, great. So you bring up Reggie White. But we won because Herschel was it. Hershal Walker was their tailback at a 2,000 yard rushing season. I took off and ran a lot and made a bunch of first downs, completed a few balls. Actually, the second half of the season, my stats weren't bad. First half,

they were horrible. But we got rolling. And then going into the playoffs, I broke my collarbone. And we lose a playoff game six to three. Hey, it's great seeing. I can tell you, I can tell from the hair, you're hanging out at the beach, you look great, Doug. I appreciate you stopping by. Hey, thanks a lot, Colin. Great talk with you. Former NFL, USFL, Canadian quarterback, great stuff.

Coach Kay, Mike Shoshchewski, Duke, joining us before the end of the show, Joy with the News. No, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. So how many Hall of Famers? I don't know, but I, the U.S. I remember this about the U.S.FL, the quarterback play, Doug Williams, Flutie. That was like Jim Kelly.

Yeah, I remember the quarterback play being really strong. They scored a lot of points. Reggie's Hall of Famer, obviously. Yeah, Reggie's the best defensive lineman ever. So wide receiver, Sammy Watkins, is now a member of the Ravens after spending the last three years with the Chiefs, and he sees a lot of similarities between his Super Bowl-winning former team and his new win in Baltimore.

Honestly, it feels like Kansas City to me. It feels like a team that's ready to win the Super Bowl, team that's ready to win and go out there and have fun, put up points, good defense, good special teams. And I'm just happy to be here and be involved with a good organization. I think that's the most critical thing in my career now. Like, I'm in one of the best spots, I think, that I ever chose probably in my life just to be on a good team and a good staff and with good surrounding people. He's been on Clemson Football, Baltimore, Kansas City. Wasn't he briefly with the Rams? Bill. He's been on a lot of

winning teams. He can play. Now, he has an injury history, but again, Baltimore, Joy, isn't a team that needs him for 17 games? Can he be great late in the playoffs? Right. So as Lamar's, with Lamar as a starter, in 2018, he went six and one. 2019, 13 and two. And last year, they were 11 and 4. Yeah. So we know Lamar Jackson is a winner. We talk about it a lot of time. He wins 80% of his games. Listen, this is a super, this is a bubble, Super Bowl bubble team. No question. I feel like this should be a year, Baltimore kind of takes that next step up. Yeah, by the way. Because we got last year, that's what it was going to be.

They were good last year. No, no, I'm saying they were good. But, like, I'm talking about they should be in Super Bowl contention this year. I think they will be. Yeah. I mean, this is, but we're not talking a lot about Baltimore, though, because Joe Burrow is coming back in that division. We're trying to figure out what the Steelers are. You know, the Cleveland Browns are now in Super Bowl contention with all the moves that they.

I mean, and they should be considered a team that, I mean, I think that they'll win the division. But the Ravens are kind of just silently sitting there. Yeah. This might be that year for them. Good stuff. Joy with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by.

The herd line news. So that's a quick heard of line news. Coach K is around the corner. So, you know, it's funny when you retire. Like, I remember certain retirements. I don't know why Cal Ripkin and Tony Gwynne retired about the same time. And they announced it. So when they went on the road, they got, you know, everybody just loved both.

I mean, Ripkin was, you know, iconic. Tony was the best hitter I've ever seen in baseball. Rod Carew. But I do like that, you know, how you end matters. Like I always thought Johnny Carson, great last show. It's like Bet Miller. He had a great final line. And then he just went into, you know, play tennis and do whatever Johnny does.

And there's a certain elegance to it. And I've seen a lot of times in college sports, the football coach or the basketball coach, they stay a little longer than they should. And I actually, I was thinking about this driving home yesterday for Coach Kay. It's perfect. The sport's kind of changing. He's done such a great job with Team USA and Duke. He's in his mid-70s.

He's got his health. His legacy is not going to get better. It's not a money play. Like, it's time. Like, he is still active and vibrant and smart. And I said yesterday, if I was an NBA team, I would sign him today to a three-year consulting deal. Nobody's going to know he's been recruiting these 15, 16, 17-year-old kids for years.

who's going to know their issues, their temperament, better than Coach K. You don't have to coach in the NBA. You can still be a consultant for the NBA. And to me, there's unbelievable value in that. Coach. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I've seen the kid play 15 times. You know, this is what he can do.

This is what he can't. This is what he'll grow into. And do it from home now. Yeah, and we always say this. NFL, when college guys go to the NFL, like Urban Meyer and Pete Carroll, their first three years in the league, they know all the college kids better. than all the NFL coaches. So we're very lucky Coach Kaye joins us next.

Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. Hey, it's me, Rob Parker. Check out my weekly MLB podcast inside the Parker for 22 minutes of pipe and hot baseball talk featuring the biggest names and newsmakers in the sport. Whether you believe in analytics or the eye test, we've got all the bases covered. New episodes drop every Thursday. So do yourself for favor and listen to Inside the Parker with Rob Parker on the IHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcast. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clivert Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast.

I'm Sam Jek. And I'm Alex English. episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack, so I'm starting to see that there's a through line.

We also have AIDS on the table right now, so. Thank you finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan, Paul. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses.

Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth. Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing,

growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Very, very lucky. When you look at Mike Shosheski's resume, you can't top it. 41 years at Duke,

winning his coach in the history of the sport, most wins in the tournament, 12 final four appearances, three-time Olympic gold medal. We talked about this yesterday. When you mention great basketball coaches, many people just list NBA guys. And I think Mike and Phil Jackson and Red Arbach, there's an argument to be made. Just intellectually, their ability to adapt through eras, it's Mount Rushmore stuff to me.

I don't think of Mike as Joe. I think of Mike as a basketball savant. And he's not going to admit that. He's going to roll his eyes at me like Joy often does. But Mike Shoshchewski is kind enough. retiring after next year, join us live now in the herd. So let's start with this. You look fantastic.

You have your health. Why retire now? Yeah. Well, thank you for saying that and your comments. I am healthy. My wife's healthy. We're not retired because of coming off of COVID or the state of college basketball, which is somewhat of turmoil.

Yeah. But we're retiring because both of us are going to be 75 at the end of next season. And it's time. It's time to do something else. Although in saying that, I'm passionate about coaching this year. And the reason, Colin, we came out, did it now, is because it'd be impossible to recruit if you know you're not going to coach next year. So to have a coach in waiting, if there is one available, and there was. one the best my associate head coach John Shire this was this is good I call it a

succession plan being a former military guy we believe in succession and what's right succession you have a greater chance for successful continuity and that's the goal here you your military background is substantial and I do think it's a big part of your success you did not have the easiest life growing up you are a fighter, and I think that is huge. What you also do, which I have a great deal of respect for, you adapted. And that is not always the case. You are a great adapter.

You didn't love one and done's, and you adapted. You adapted recruiting. Recruiting is always been a handful. A lot of coaches don't adapt. Did you adapt due to fear of failure? Did you adapt because of necessity? Most great coaches don't. You always did, not to be a psychologist.

just why were you always so willing to change to succeed? Well, because of what I learned about leadership and teamwork is that you can't keep fitting people into the same environment if that environment is not the one that is out there right now with culture and everything like that. So you have to adapt and create an environment that's conducive to success. And as a leader, I would adapt to how you communicate with your guys. You never adapt with the values of your organization, your integrity and courage, respect, and selfless service, duty, loyalty, trust. Those are, they do not know an age. They're ageless.

But how you communicate and get them across is important. And then so you adapt communication-wise because you keep getting older. And the guys you coach, I'm 50-something years older than the guys I coach. Yeah, but I'm always older. I just kept getting older. They stayed the same age. But the other thing, Colin, is I try to adapt to the people that I'm coaching. In other words, a system of offense and defense might have been good for the team last year.

To assume that that is going to be good for this team is not right. And so really, I spend every summer watching the individual workouts of my guys and assessing our talent and trying to get them better. And by the time fall comes around, we have a system that we're trying to teach. And that's incredibly interesting to me. Yeah. And I even do that during the year because especially with young players, a player in October can be a lot different than the player in December. And if he's still in the system of October, you might be putting him in a box where he can do more. So it's kept up my interest.

And then I learned that at the highest level when I was coaching the U.S. team because you really should be incredibly adaptable to that level of talent. You know, you don't seem like a guy that would live a life of regret. You did turn down the Lakers job. You've had innumerable opportunities at the professional level, and you certainly, to a large degree, conquered college basketball. Is there even a twinkle of, phew, I would have loved to have given that pro game a little bit of a chance? I think I would have definitely had that in 2007, 2005, I should say. No, seven.

I'm losing my years here. Whatever the way it was, seven, I think it was. But anyway, I was looking at my career, like maybe I should do something different. And then at you is five, USA basketball then was offered to me five years later. And I not only scratched that itch, I scratched enough where I would never have that itch. Right. And but I love the pro game. I loved coaching the pro players.

and I think if today I was 57 and had won a few national championships, I think there'd be a better chance that I would be a pro coach in today's college game than at that time. Yeah. I'm going to give you a player, and I want you to tell me your first impressions when you saw him play. LeBron James. I only saw him in the pros. Right. So, yeah, and whoa, wow, you know, and what a, what a, what a guy to develop.

And that was just seeing him physically. And then I got to coach him. LeBron and I were very close, and I got to coach him as a younger guy. Then I've recognized and starting to coach him, he had tremendous leadership qualities. And he's smart as can be. and he has a great command voice. And, you know, working with him to develop those three aspects of his game, not the ball handling and whatever, was incredibly interesting for me and very fulfilling.

First time you saw Michael Jordan play in high school? I never saw him play in high school. He was a very low off-to-target guy and committed to one of the great coaches of all time and Dean Smith and a good, great friend. You know, I saw him play enough in college. He was one of the guys almost got me fired in my first three years. How about one of my favorite young players, he plays with such joy, Zion Williamson? Diamond in a rough, you know, he, you know, I didn't think he was ever in the shape when I saw him at

school and then coaching him Colin Zion made you happy every day really he is such a smart and upbeat happy kid he a joy to coach and a great great teammate got an unbelievable sense of humor you know he he's one of my all-time favorites he and hopefully he doesn't have any injuries now. He can end up being one of the great all-time players in the NBA. Yeah. I'll throw one at you. Jay Billis. We both know him. What was your first impression? Yeah. Slow. Yeah, this will be a lot of fun. Jay's mental ability where he's smart and could see things quickly in the moment.

it was happening, never translated to his physical talents of being able to do it. In other words, he was a car that could see openings and speed and could only go to 50. He was on a highway, he was a right-lane player. And fooling around about that, though, he is, And he was one of my assistants, too, for a few years while I was going to law school. I love Jay, mature beyond his years, ultimate team player and a really good player. Yeah. You know, he did play pro ball in Europe. Probably in this NBA, if he was his age now, he'd be an NBA player.

He could shoot. He can shoot. And he wouldn't be used. we had to use them inside a lot, but more athletic than you would think. And really smart as hell and very competitive. Yeah, let's stop talking about him. He's at the other place. Hey, coach, absolute pleasure.

You made time for us today. He didn't have to. You know how much respect I have for you, coach. And continued success. I'm very happy for you and your family. And I just want to thank you for joining our show. Yeah, thank you, Con. And always a pleasure and an honor to be on.

All right. Mike Shashefsky, Coach, K, 41 years next year will be his last. Limited time, shopped the Memorial Day Sale, 15% off everything you need, better sleep, new Casper Cooling Collection. Go to casper.com slash promo. So that, my friends, is a legend right there. Not many of those left. And as I said earlier, both Carolina and Duke in a two-year period are going to have two of the best programs.

I mean, have you best college basketball programs of all time. Carolina, Kansas, Duke. UCLA. UCLA. And by the way, UCLA is a great example. And they're in LA. No, I think that's how hard it is. I think that's the best example.

You can't replace wooden. Kentucky. I mean, it's hard. It's Kentucky's had long droughts that, you know, they just don't, to replace, you know, you don't replace certain people. That's why that job is, you got to hire a duke. Yeah. Who would want that job?

Well, I do think that they do have a good succession, succession plan. No, no, I do too. You know, they've got players. I'm not going to say they're going to struggle. I'm just saying. And Shire's a big recruiter, which obviously is. Is that his reputation? Yeah.

Big recruiter. Great recruiter, yes. Okay. Joy has got her AU basketball. She is an A.U. Basketball dork. So she apparently knows all the good recruiters. So he's a big time recruit guy. Yeah, he's a big part of the recruiting over the last couple years.

And he's obviously been there in the system. I mean, you can't, there are, to your point, there's qualities in legends that you cannot duplicate. There is, you don't, proximity to genius does not make you a genius. Right. It gives you skills. It gives you ways of looking at things. There are things that you can take and adapt what you do.

But there's a special sprinkle on Shoshchke, Belichick, wooden that you can't duplicate. Spotlight comfort. Stay big in your water bill. Navian tankless water heaters. Go to tankless maidsimble.com. Tankless made symbol. com. Not a bad show today.

Good last hour. Last hour was the best hour. Doug Flutie, USFL's coming to Fox next year in the spring, and Mike Shoshchewski. That's a good last hour. That's not bad. Ryan, let's put Coach K in the old archive. Why don't we put Flutie and him on the podcast today? We're not messing around today.

All right. Tomorrow is Friday. Lakers suns tonight. I think it's over for the Lakers. It might be a sad L.A. basketball weekend. We've had a lot of wins here in the last several years. That's true. Probably about time.

The herd. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite on Humor Me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

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84 was big to me. I'm Sam Jay. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year.

It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media.

Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Cliver Show. This is a place for raw, unfields of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok's podcast network on TikTok.

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