The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 06/11/2021 - HOUR 2 - Mitchell, Giannis

Episode Date: June 11, 2021

Donovan Mitchell is a very special playerGiannis Antetokounmpo needs to become a better shooterGuests: George Karl, Joe Vardon Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was funny. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis come in. He's like, you know I love it.

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You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. Ah, here we go. Hour two, George Carl. Great NBA coach, almost 30 years coach, and the NBA is going to join us in a few minutes. Live in L.A., it's the herd, wherever you may be, and however you may be listening, IHeart Radio, Fox Sports Radio FS1. Clippers lost. I still like them in the series. They are a hard team to get your arms around. They're not very good. The clutch data stats are bad late. You get inconsistent efforts. I mean, last night, Reggie Jackson's great. Paul George is wonderful.

Hawaii sort of disappears late. That's just the clippers. Nothing's easy for them, so I still like them over Utah. But listen, if you lose to Utah, it's fine. Utah's really good. I think Denver's good, but they're missing Jamal Murray. Will Barton, they're not the same team. So eight teams left, none of won a title since 1983, and I think it's really fun.

I want to touch on Russell Wilson. So, you know, it's funny about Russell Wilson. He's 32 years old. And unlike Brady and LeBron, Brady and LeBron weren't into this, you know, this nutrition stuff at the beginning of their careers because it wasn't really available as much in the country. Russell Wilson's 32 years old. He will play well into his 40s. So Russell Wilson has played nine years in the NFL.

He's not halfway there yet. In my opinion, Russell Wilson will play into his 40s. I think he's got 12 more years left. And I think his prime is still probably five to six more years. He takes meticulous care of his body. He's a very young 32 years old. whereas Deshawn Watson not only has some legal issues, he's been hurt twice. Aaron Rogers, 37, a couple of collarbone surgery.

So I think Russell's going to play for a long time. But yesterday he was talking about some of the issues with Seattle in the offseason. And I tend to believe whether it's a corporate employee and corporate bosses, a husband and a wife, a player and a team, I think there needs to be a balance in the relationship. Otherwise, it creates resentment and you don't want resentment. Aaron Rogers now resents that he doesn't get enough say with the Packers. You find husbands and wives, there's a resentment if he or she controls the relationship. And so Russell Wilson pushed back in the offseason and Seattle responded,

meaning there's a reasonable balance between the front office and the quarterback. And yesterday, Russell doesn't want to leave Seattle. The grass can sometimes be greener. I don't believe there's a greener pasture for Russell Wilson, then Seattle. I'll get to that in a second. But here's Russell yesterday. You know, in terms of the trade talks, I think anytime you play professional sports, there's always a possibility of something happened, right?

And I think that's just a reality. I think that there's a lot of teams out there that people were saying that I was going to or would go to. I requested a trade. I did not request a trade. I've always wanted to play here. You know, and the reality is, you know, I think calls were getting thrown around and this and that. And I think that's just a reality. But I think at the end of the day, the real reality is that I'm here and I'm here to win.

I'm here to win at all. And go back to the four teams that were interested in him in terms of grasses greener, Las Vegas. Well, they don't have a winning culture. When's the last time they were great in back-to-back years? Chicago, they can never get the offense right. And from a weather standpoint, there's a reason they haven't had a lot of great quarterbacks. It's windy. It's cold. It's a northern division. That wouldn't be the first place I'd want to play if I was a quarterback.

There's Dallas, meddling owner. And there's New Orleans. They were $100 million over the cap. Seattle really works for Russell Wilson. And part of the reason it works for Russell Wilson is because they've never been great before Russell Wilson. And so there's great value in the community for him. Everybody understands how valuable he is. The Packers won with Bart Star and they won with Favre. So there is a feeling in Green Bay is, hey, we can reboot this thing.

You're not bigger than the team. Pittsburgh, they won with Bradshaw. They've won with Ben. The organization is stronger than the individual player. But what gives Russell Wilson power is that Seattle was never really anything until Russell. And so the franchise does need him. and he did take the franchise to a new level.

And the franchise gets that. And I do think the power dynamic in Seattle is the right power dynamic. Is that Russell didn't make ridiculous demands. He's been hit more than any quarterback in the league for five years. He said, make the offensive line better. Seattle tends to be two-run centric in a past-centric league. He said, let's throw the ball more. Let's get better receivers and a better tight end, a new offensive coordinator.

So when Russell, this really is a good fit for him. Also, unlike the Steelers or say the Packers that are very much rearview mirror embrace tradition, Pete Carroll doesn't. Pete Carroll's a perfect coach for Russell. He's kind of a big swing guy. He's an aspirational guy. He'll blow stuff up guy. He'll start over a guy.

He's moved through all sorts of coaches on the offensive side. Pete is not a rear view mirror guy. He's looking through the windshield. So this is a situation where. Russell pushed back and Seattle smartly equipped him and modified some things to make him happy. That's a very sound power dynamic. What you're seeing in Green Bay is the quarterback resents having not enough power. And by the way, these quarterbacks really, they get owned by these teams.

They can franchise tag you forever. So as a franchise, you've got to understand. There's going to be some built-in animosity if you don't give them some. things they want. Unlike the NBA, where you can move around or baseball, move around. You know, in football, you're trapped. Aaron Rogers right now is trapped. That's why he's going to jeopardy. It's only out. Retire, make $15 million a year asking about Russian literature to contestants. So you have to understand that quarterbacks get uniquely trapped.

They're really important as important as anybody in American sports other than a dominant starting pitcher. If you can't hit him, you can't hit him. So Seattle, this relationship is actually really, really healthy. Doesn't mean it can't be uncomfortable. A great marriage can have arguments, but it's healthy. The star's got power. The GM's got power. The coach has some power.

And Pete Carroll had to relinquish some of that power. That's a really healthy thing. There's no Russell Wilson's on the market. I like Kyler Murray. There's no Russell's on the market. And with that, I bring in my friend George Carl, 27 years coaching, one of nine coaches in the league's history with over a thousand NBA wins. He is now joining us live.

So, George, first of all, it's great to see you. You know, chemistry is an interesting thing that a coach can only do so much. Utah has very good chemistry. I get the same team. I get the same defense. I get the same effort every night. The Clippers, whose star is kind of a nonverbal guy, they're not very, they're not very communicative late.

Their chemistry is weird. I get a different team every half. How much of that's on the coach? I mean, they blame Doc Rivers for it. Now, Tyloo. How much can a coach do to create chemistry, or is it up to the players? I think it's a little bit of a 50-50 proposition. I think what I didn't like about the clippers, and I still don't like about the clippers,

they've been this way the whole season. They've been up and down. They've been committed and non-committed. I don't even know what they did at the end of the season. It pissed everybody off. I mean, there's just too much negative energy going on in L.A. in my mind. Yeah. And negative energy, I think, in the playoffs, is bad.

It's not good. Yeah. You know, it's when you, Donovan Mitchell's an interesting player. He's a combo guard. So he, now with Mike Conley out, he's got to be a little bit more of a distributor. He's got, but he's always. has been a score. It's like a little bit of a D. Wade where he's a natural score.

He will defend you. There's a little combo thing going on here. Can you have long term, can you win a championship with Donovan Mitchell, a scorer, kind of a scoring guard, being your lead guard and having to distribute too? I'm kind of against that, but a lot of teams are trying to do it because LeBron is the point guard for the L.A. Lakers. He says he's a forward, but he's the point guard. I'm telling you, Donovan Mitchell is really, really good right now.

Yeah. I think the two guys that are blowing up are Booker and Mitchell. Those two guys have made a big step in this playoffs to being a stud, an NBA All-Star. I mean, not All-Star, but NBA first team or second-team player. Yeah. And I met Donovan Mitchell, I think it's second year in the league. I spent some time in Utah with him. he's an amazing person.

He really wants this. He really wants to challenge and responsibility of being a big time player, playing on the big stage and winning big games. And, you know, people forget he played great in the bubble. Yeah. He played great in the bubble. And he lost in the first round.

So we all forget that. And the truth of the matter, he was dynamite in the bubble last year. and he's not in a number now. But I think what you're missing a little bit is Engels is a point guard. Joe Ingalls can distribute the ball by as well as any small forward in the NBA. And he knows the game has great basketball IQ. And so I think it allows Donovan Mitchell to be okay.

But the big thing that Utah has in his back pocket is Mike Connolly is going to come back. Yeah. And Mike Connolly's history. NBA playoffs is big time. He's been a prime time performer in the NBA playoffs in Memphis for many, many years. Yeah. So that's why I like Utah more than I like the Clippers. You know, it's interesting.

You had, obviously, you had a lot of stars when you coached throughout the years. You had Carmelo Anthony. You had Rondo. You had Iverson. You had Gary Payton a lot of stars. Most of those guys, but some of those guys are a little difficult personality-wise, to Marcus Cousins. I mean, you, you did. You had your share of guys that were difficult. Now, Kauai, George, is difficult in a different way.

Load management physically. He and Pop didn't work. He's not real, he's not a talker. You know, that's not who he is. Would you struggle coaching him or how would you adapt to his personality? I, you know, I think you got to try to push him in the right direction, but you also got to realize he's who he is. and trying to change him is, I've never been a guy that thinks she should change somebody unless he wants to change. And I think that's where I think Kauai just bothers everybody because when he plays the right way,

when he is focused and he's demanding of himself, he might be the best player in basketball at both ends of the court. I mean, some of his games against Dallas were unbelievably efficient. I mean, shooting jump shots and shooting 60 and 70% is unheard of. And, I mean, he's an amazing guy, but then he goes out in these last two games, he's been okay. He hasn't been bad, but he hasn't been a superstar like he was in the last three or four games of the Dowel series. Yeah.

You know, I want to talk about Chris Paul because you played some basketball yourself. and I said I would have given Chris Paul the MVP. I know he's not going to score 30 a game, but we haven't had a scoring champ win a title in this league in 20 years, is that the truth of the matter is in basketball, if I'm scoring 32, I'm taking shots and points and stats from you, and you can't have resentment. You need guys who are making others better.

Chris Paul's a fascinating player. Literally everywhere he goes, everywhere. He's gotten terrible breaks. He was going to be a Laker. He got set to Donald Sterling. He had to deal with Katrina first two years, Nilly. He got sent to the tanking OKC Thunder.

The sons were a mess when he got moved there. Can you compare him to anything? What about him do you love? And was there any player that you ever played against early in the 70s, who do we compare Chris Paul to? I think he's a more talented John Stockton. That's who I think he is. Other than, you know, John Stockton played in one place his whole career.

This guy is a maestro, a point-go-old. in the NBA today. I just think he orchestrates the game. He manipulates the game at both ends of the court. He's not a great defender anymore, but he's a good defender. His mind still thinks defense. Yeah. And I think Phoenix right now has the best combination of young talent and old talent.

I mean, Jay Crowder and Chris Paul and Torrey Craig, they have old. guys that know how to win games. But the guys that are really blowing up are Aiton and Booker and a little bit Cameron Payne. And then you got McKell Bridges, who I didn't think had a very good rookie year. And now he's playing like a stud. Yeah. I like Phoenix and Utah. And if they meet in the next round, I think Phoenix is going to win because of Chris Paul.

Yeah, well, I don't disagree. I want to go to the east. Ben Simmons, it drives me nuts. I think he's an unbelievable talent, but he doesn't work on that jumper. And then you got Ambide, who's a super talent, but you've got the injury thing. If they get vanquished here by Atlanta and they don't win, they may break those guys up. Darry has been a very aggressive general manager. George, what do you do when you got Simmons who doesn't really?

Doesn't want to get better at what he weak. You got Embed, who's got an injury history, even now he's got a meniscus tear. If Philadelphia gets beat by Atlanta, what do you do with those two? Well, I mean, I think the biggest question I would ask you, you just got saying a scoring champion hasn't won the MVP for 20 years. We had a big guy win the MVP for the first time in 21 years this year in Yokic. And Embedd is a different type of player. I like Yokage and I would never trade Yokish. But Embed is a, he puts bigger numbers up.

He's got to be giving the ball a lot. He's got to be giving a lot of attention to be successful. And I don't like that totally and completely in today's game. The fast game, the efficient game of playing fast, playing with the three ball, I think is actually more efficient than playing through Embed. Yeah. Yok is different because he's a playmaker. He's more of a passer than a scorer.

But a B likes to put numbers up. And I'm not sure that's the most efficient game in the NBA today. No, it's a really good point. George, it's a really, really good point. As a guy can be great. You know, I've said this for years, is that some players, the game moves into you. Like Russell Westbrook's a great talent,

but the game became a three-ball shooting league and he doesn't shoot the three. And so the game kind of moved. away from Westbrook style. And what you're saying with Embedde is you love him as a talent, but the math doesn't add up. I mean, let's talk Janice for a second. Janice is a great player.

Coach, I can't have him on the free throw line late. He can't shoot outside. I mean, what do you do with Janus? You teach him how to shoot. You make him learn how to shoot. Shooting is a learned effort. I mean, it's practice. It's going out and just doing it.

I mean, I've coached a lot of guys. that, you know, I mean, guys like Nate McMillan and Sam Perkins and guys, we made them into three-point shooters because you have to play. To play in the league today, you've got to be able to make the three. And 33% is acceptable. We like to be closer to 40. But I just think Ben Simmons and Yonis got to know that you can't win a championship missing three throws.

And you probably can't win a championship having a player. out there that can't shoot the three. Yeah. George Carl, 27 years. He's got a new podcast called Truth and Basketball with George Carl, a three-time cancer survivor. Known you a long time. I think your insight's great. It's great

seeing you. You're going to get a bunch of 90-degree days in Denver now. Go golf. Go have fun. Good for you. It's great seeing you. And we've got NBA playoff basketball, and I love the, I love the small market teams. I love

Utah. I love Phoenix. I think Milwaukee, I'm still rooting him for him because I played there. I'm having a lot of fun right now, Colin. Thank you. You bet. So am I. I think it's really, really fun. I said this the other day is that people said, oh, the ratings will tank when LeBron leaves. And my argument is, well, are the stories good? I think the Utah story's great. The stories are absolutely fabulous right now. I think the Brooklyn story is great. I think the Phoenix story is great. I think the Clippers drama is great. Years and years ago, the Mets and Yankees met in the World Series. And everybody thought, Oh, Subway Series, big ratings.

It was the lowest rated World Series at the time ever. People years ago thought the Jordan Utah Jazz Series would struggle because Utah was a small market. The Lakers were running the league in big market in Chicago. It's still the highest rated NBA finals ever. It's not about the market size, although that can help. It is about the story. LeBron's story is kind of this year, injured, not happy. in a bad mood, condensed schedule.

The Clippers story is fantastic. The Phoenix story, the Brooklyn story. These are fans give them credit. They know what's interesting. You don't have to always have the biggest brand. The Cubs were the losing-est franchise in baseball. They got great ratings in the World Series because their story was fascinating. And I think the NBA right now is great.

Good stuff. George Carl, thank him for stopping by. One more herd? The herd streams 20. four hours a day, seven days a week within the IHeart radio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like.

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a

full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the I'm sorry great. Listen to Superhuman on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defying the odds.

Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows. Without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series

because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night bases on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash would get that thing.

That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers, why he got the ball, like, After you go through a training camp with that, I said, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everyone, it's Ryder Strong and Will Ferdell from PodMeets World. And now the Pod Meets Twirled podcast.

We're two men who were completely clueless to reality TV, who now have covered Dancing with the Stars, traitors, and we're gearing up for the season finale of Survivor. So yeah, now we're experts. I know we annoyed a lot of our listeners by our severe lack of survivor knowledge. That is the point of the show. I'm just going to remind you. I have watched some survivor. I obviously haven't watched enough. Did people not like it?

Yeah. Just because we? Yeah. We'll be recapping the big conclusion in the 50th season from the final attempts at gameplay to the desperate pleas of finalists to a bunch of who. Again, we are experts. So make sure to tune into Pod Meets Twirled for all our Survivor 50 takes. Listen to PodMeets Twirled on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, I'm Joe Dono. You might know me as that loud guy who yells out, help on the internet. Help! Somebody! Please! But there's so much more to me than me. I'm an actor. I'm a comedian. And recently, I've become quite the helper myself. And on my new podcast, Hope from a Hypocrite, I'll be changing lives. people in need with my sage advice and thoughtful solutions. Sike, I'm a comedian. I'm not qualified to give good advice.

Join me and my comedian friends as we riff, rant, recommend some of the most legally dubious advice known to man. If I'm calling you, even if you're on your phone, let it ring twice. One ring is too scary. Oh, cream a chicken suit. A cream. Cream a chicken suit.

This is help from a hypocrite. The worst advice from a, from the dumbest people you know. Listen to Help from Hypocrite as part of the Mike Coutura Podcast Network available on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This weekend, the Westminster Dog Show is on Fox on Saturday. It's the Master's Agility Championship,

beginning at 5 Eastern, then Sunday at 7. It's the best in show. Catch it all on Fox in the Fox Sports app. And we've got this giant three-foot-tall-safe-in-ard to get us ready for the event. The dog show has been going on, calling since 1877. So be sure to check it out this weekend

live from New York on Fox. You know, my dogs did not apply to be in this contest. Neither did mine. They're working dogs on the ranch. They're doing a lot of things on the acreage at home. By the way, are you ready to smell like a gentleman should? Yet cremocompany.com,

body wash, shampoo's, uncommon sense hair gel. That's cremocompany.com. C-R-E-M-O. Alex with the news. No, no, no, no, no, turn on the news. This is the herd line news. Well, the Clippers are down O2 again after their game two lost to the jazz last night, and they were able to come back from that same deficit and win the first round series against Dallas.

And Kauai is confident his team has what it takes to do it again against the jazz. We all got to cut our will out on the floor. You know, you know, see what we did in the first two games. and try to limit our mistakes and just keep going from there pretty much. You know, we'll see tomorrow what we got to do. And, you know, we got a lot of fight left. So, you know, we're up for the challenge. Well, when Donovan Mitchell's playing as well as he's playing,

Kauai has to match it. So right now, Utah's got the chemistry and the best player in the series. So you've got to have one of those two. Generally, the best player wins the series. So, I mean, Kauai, again, I think we all, sometimes you just have to come to terms what a player is. Kauai is arguably the best player in the NBA in about 40% of the games he plays. And unlike LeBron, who almost, I mean, LeBron would go through a season and have two bad halves. You got a consistency with Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson.

We have to come to terms with half the time Kauai either doesn't play or doesn't take a to the next level. That's just who he is. But when, if you can get it three to four times in a series, you win those games, you're fine. But he has not been in the first two games in this series. He's been suboptimal. Oh yeah. And as we were talking about, they have their work cut out for them. I hope they take at least one, hopefully two. I want to see a series. But you also have to remember, they're the only team playing in Staples who don't have a banner hanging up there. You got the Lakers. You got the Kings. You got the sparks. Even at one point, Taylor Swift had a banner up in there. Everybody but the clippers. That's got to be tough. Yep.

Hope they get it. It's their reality, yep. Yeah. All right. Well, things got heated last night between Kevin Durant and PJ Tucker. They got into each other's faces and exchanged words in the third quarter. When Durant was fouled by Tucker, security ended up coming onto the court to help separate them. And according to Jo Verden of the Athletic, it was actually Durant's personal bodyguard who was also on the Nets payroll that broke them up. Now, I am here for spicy play reactions, but learning that it was Katie's personal security guard kind of changes the narrative a little right there. Yeah, he has no business being anywhere near the floor. That doesn't look good. That's incredibly. No, it's really bad judgment for a security guard. Like, what are you

do? Look at it. He just made it worse. He went into, he went into protect his client. He went straight into security mode. No, I mean, you've got to throw him out of the arena. Like, he can't be in the arena for the remaining games. No. I mean. Look at this reaction. Like tough guy, security guy. It's under control.

Like they yelled at each other, but it's under control. They're separated. He makes it worse. Way worse. By jamming into this thing and knocking PJ Tucker. What a goofball. That's, and we're going to have Joe who broke this story on the show a little later.

So see if he has any other insight. If the security card is still there, that's not good. That is not good. At all. Yeah. All right. Well, Zach Wilson will be thrown into the fire as the Jets start week won this season. Head coach Robert Salaf thinks that the rookie has looked good so far in OTAs, but says he still has a lot to learn. You know what? We're still learning. I'd love to give you an answer on that one right now, Daryl.

There's going to be so much more to learn, and your best learning comes through adversity and conflict. And obviously, OTAs, everything's been feel good. It's been, it's been. Everyone's excited about everything that's happening around the organization. But until we actually hit adversity, will we be able to learn more about each other and how we handle things? And so I'd shortchange you if I was able to give you an answer to no. Yeah, good luck. Yeah.

They're the fourth best roster in that division, and he'll be the fourth best, he'll have the fourth best offensive line in that division. That's a tough. That's going to be some tough love. Yeah. And I actually think they have a really good, I think Joe Douglas is a real good.

a really good GM. Their last two drafts have been functional and smart and they've addressed real issues. But that is a, listen, you don't have to pay them anything for four years so you can get free agents, but that is a tough draw for a rookie quarterback. We all know in the NFL, unless you're like Andrew Luck, where you land matters, that's a tough landing spot. So I got Belichick twice a year who each young quarterback's alive. I've got Sean McDermott, a defensive coach who looks like one of the great young coaches. I now have Brian Flores. who like Belichick is winning with special teams in defense. They went 10 and 6.

And I have Robert Sala, who even if he's solid, is probably the fourth best quarterback in that division. This kid of all the quarterbacks drafted, he got the worst landing spot. We also have some dysfunction in ownership. You take the GM out right now. Most of the organization you can have. That's why I felt like Donald actually escaped.

the Jets. He landed in a much better spot from a much more functional organization. We know landing spot matters. Trey Lance gets Kyle Shanahan, doesn't have to play week one. You know, like this is almost like what Joe Burrow got in Cincinnati. And as good as Joe Burrell was, why did he get hurt? He didn't have the protection. This is very much a Joe Burrell situation. Also, players are stronger. players are faster. The game moves faster. You are a rookie quarterback. No rookie quarterback is going to be great right out of the gates. The only thing going for him is he 100% believes that he can do it. He has the belief. So hopefully that can carry him. Good stuff. Alex for the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The herd lie news. We were saying this early. In the NBA, you would think that NFL dynasties would be shorter because of the level of violence it has, right?

That you would have more guys hurt. And you would think dynasties in baseball wouldn't last long because it's the only sport where your star pitcher is literally their arm goes out, right? But the NBA dynasties actually last really, I mean, even the Bulls dynasty, it was two, three-year dynasties. And then MJ, you know, moved to baseball, is that, we said this yesterday, basketball is very unique in that if I'm succeeding, on the floor, you're losing something. If I'm scoring, you're not. In football, if I throw a touchdown,

I get credit and you get credit for catching it, and we both hit a bonus. But in basketball, if I score 28, that means 28 points, shots you didn't take. And I think Brooklyn is built to be an 80s rock band. They're going to burn really hot briefly, and then Eagles will take over and they'll blow up. And Kyrie Irving last night, great player, even without James Harden, didn't hit any field goals the last three, four minutes of the game. Now, you've got to give Milwaukee credit they play defense, but Steve Nash talked about that is that

when you have three of the top four or five offensive skilled players in the league for the last five or six years, Harden, Kyrie, and KD. I mean, Kobe and Shaq were great finishers. They got tired of each other. So I think this burns hot. I think they can win the championship this year.

But the minute they go into a little bit of a tailspin, like last night, Kyrie's not getting shots to fall, and it doesn't feel the same way. Steve Nash talked about that. You can always go back and look at a game and be like, you know, we would have like this player to shoot or whatever it may be,

you know, but in the moment, I thought we still were able to create some good opportunities, very makeable opportunities. Now, you know, what I want, Kevin or Kai shooting every single ball, of course,

but that's just not always the way it works out. But we can learn from it. We can grow. We got good looks at times that just didn't go in for us. Yeah, they're going to be great. It's just the question is how long, and my guess is, there's never been a team assembled that has three of the top four to five finishers in the game. In fact, when Kobe and Shaq were great, they were very unique because Pippin wasn't one of the great finishers.

Pippin was the greatest Robin ever, is that Michael took the shot. Scotty knew it. Scottie played defense. Scotty slash. Scottie scored on the brakes. But Shaq and Kobe's problem was they were both arguably. the two best finishers in the game, the best post-finisher, and the best perimeter finisher. And at times, who gets the last shot? Well, now you add three. So when Harding comes back,

and again, stuff works in the regular season doesn't mean it's going to work in the postseason. That's when we watch the NBA. That's when legacies are formed. So the idea that three of the four best finishers in the league are going to work for years and years, it's not. But the key is, can you win a couple championships? And then, boom, you move on. I mean, even KD with Steph and Clay. That thing burned hot, and then it burned out. Joe Varden breaking stories on the NBA, a couple of doozies out of Milwaukee. That's coming up. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app.

Hey, I'm Doug Gottlie. The podcast is called All Ball. We usually talk all basketball all the time, but it's more about the stories about what made these people love their sport and all the interesting interactions along the way. We talk to coaches, we talk to players, we tell you stories. You download it, you listen to it, I think you like it. Listen to All Ball with Doug Alib on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. call it grotesque, others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

What's up, fam, this Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defining the odds. like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game.

We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us every. everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson,

we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nass would get that thing. That man, hell get to flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers why he got the ball. Like, after you go through a training camp with that, IZAD, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey everyone, it's Ryder Strong and Wilfredel from PodMeets World. And now the Podmeets Twirled podcast. We're two men who were completely clueless to reality TV, who now have covered Dancing with the Stars, traitors, and we're gearing up for the season finale of Survivor. So yeah, now we're experts. I know we annoyed a lot of our listeners by our severe lack of survivor knowledge.

That is the point of this show. I'm just going to remind you. I have watched some Survivor. I obviously haven't watched enough. Did people not like it? Like what was... Yeah. Just because we...

Yeah. We'll be recapping the big conclusion in the 50th season from the final attempts at gameplay to the desperate pleas of finalists to a bunch of... Ha, ooh. Ha ha, ooh.

Again, we are experts. So make sure to tune into PodMeets Twirled for all our Survivor 50 takes. Listen to PodMeets Twirled on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you're watching the latest season, of the Real Housewives of Atlanta, you already know,

there's a lot to break down. Georgia accusing Kelly of sleeping with a married man. They holding Kay Michelle back from fighting Drew. Pinky has financial issues. I like the bougie style of Housewives show. I think it looks like it's going to be interesting. On the podcast, Reality with the King, I, Carlos King, recap the biggest moments from your favorite reality shows,

including the Real House Wise franchise, the drama, the alliances, and the team, everybody's talking about. As an executive producer in reality television, I'm not just watching it. I understand the game. As somebody who creates shows, I'll even say this. At the end of the day, when people are at home, they want entertainment. To hear this and more, listen to Reality with the King on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. summer's here get active shed pounds with m drive boost and burns supplement makes you feel good free shipping 60 day money back guarantee or go to m drive for men dot com joe varden's been covering the

NBA for a while he's a terrific writer senior NBA writer for the athletic he's got some good stuff today he's joining us now live now joe uh ugly win last night i said i felt it was a bad win where you're scoring 86 points hardens out katie played terrible middleton's the the best guy on the floor and you drop 86. That's one of those games. You really should have. I mean, the Nets had a terrible first quarter. And you kind of write about Mike Budenhouser, the coach. You know, I feel this watching. It's over. It's inevitable. He's out. You wrote about that after the game last night. Your thoughts for those who have not read that article. Yeah. So Mike Boodenholzer is the winningest coach in the NBA over the last three years,

which means the Bucks are the best team in the regular season over the last three years. But they've obviously fallen short with Janus in his prime, and now Janus is signed to this extension, and there's going to be some accountability if they fall short again. So as we know, no one has come back from an O3 deficit in NBA history in any playoff series, and the Bucks were absolutely staring that in the face last night. They should have lost the game. They played great defense in the last 30. seconds, maybe a minute to keep the ball out of Katie's hands. You said he didn't shoot well. That's true.

But he had a great fourth quarter. And we've all seen it. We saw what he did against the Cavs in 2017. We've seen Kyrie win games like that in the playoffs. And neither of them got shots, like real shots in the final minute when they had a chance to win. So, you know, there was a stay of execution, if you will, for Bud. And, you know, now the series is 2-1. I mean, you win ugly once, but, you know, maybe you build momentum off that and go from there. Yeah, I just don't see it. I thought they should have blown everything. All the ingredients were there for a resounding home win, and they basically had to hold them off.

Now, you also broke the story and reported that KD's bodyguard, who is on the Nets payroll, is the guy that ran on the floor last night. So what's the fallout from that? Well, right. The league is kicking the tire. on this. There are some questions being asked. And I don't know if there's anything that comes to this. And the viewers need to know. Kevin Durant is not the only NBA All-Star who has a personal bodyguard on a team's payroll. I mean, LeBron has done that for years. All his guys were great.

You know, Kyrie, he's another one. And you can just go down the list. I mean, Tobias Harris has a guy like that. So don't get caught up in that part of it. Now, you said I've been covering the league for a long time. it's true. And I've always, you know, I was covering the cabs in Cleveland, so I've always been around these kinds of stars. And I have never seen what I saw last night in terms of a security guard getting out there and actually making contact with the opposing player like that. And then having that security guard turn out to be personally tied to the player he was defending. I've, I've never seen that part of it. I don't know what's going to happen, if anything, but it was a remarkable scene for sure. It's very interesting. When Kobe and Shaq and I was covering them were great.

It was the only time I remember the two single best finishers in the league, the best perimeter finisher and the best, you know, basket perimeter, you know, interior finisher were on the same team. And eventually it didn't work. Brooklyn's got three of the four best finishers maybe in the game. Kyrie last night, you know, not getting the shots or looks maybe he wanted. And I think to myself, I've said today a couple of times they're going to be a rock band of the 80s. They're going to burn really hot. It's not going to last long.

Let's talk about the kind of the psychology when Hardin comes back. And you've watched this Brooklyn team now. It's very interesting. I don't remember Joe in my life, three of the best four finishers maybe on the same team. I don't remember it.

As an aside, two years ago, my friends and I went to go see Death Leopard and Journey play at Ohio State. and Def Leopard melted our faces off. I'm just going to say that. You know, listen, it's a fascinating team. I think you might be on to something.

That's why I think that Steve Nash, I gave him a vote. Not number one, but he was on my ballot for Coach of the Year because I just think he's done a remarkable job holding this team together with these personalities. Kyrie, to me, is my favorite player in the NBA to watch with the ball in his hands. However, the last time he was in the play, was actually, what, I guess it would be 2019 when he was with the Celtics,

which seems like an eternity ago. And that playoff run fell apart against the Bucks in that building, in this building right here, if I served for him. And so last night, you know, he goes out and he wasn't very good. He was 9 of 22, I think, something like that. And I am watching this. Obviously, Brooklyn has way more firepower. But when he was the lead dog on the Celtics, and he had a great game won,

Bud figured something out, and Kyrie really struggled the rest of that series. And so I am wondering what happens with him in Game 4. Yeah. By the way, you're doing a fascinating story for The Athletic. You are covering, you're going to LeBron's old apartment and finding the people that live there after LeBron, which I love, love these sort of stories. But it pivots me into LeBron. He's going to be good last year or next year. But, you know, it was really funny, Joe.

came into this year in a bad attitude. He didn't get his 120 days off. He got 70. He didn't want to start when they start. He didn't want the All-Star game. He didn't like, he was in a bad mood all year. So I do give LeBron a little bit of a pass. Then

A.D. didn't come in shape. And so now he's got to play 37 minutes. What kind of LeBron do you think we get next year? Because you're from Akron, born in the same hospital as LeBron. You know LeBron. You know his mom, what do we get from him next year?

You know, those are great questions because he's going to be 37 years old and the mileage is substantial. There's nothing he has left that he could possibly achieve in this league other than become the all-time leading score. So I guess that is an interesting carrot. You talk about, or he talked about having a full off season of recovery. that worked wonders for him in the 2019-20 season, obviously interrupted by a bubble. But I was concerned about him even before the ankle injury with the playoffs.

And here's why. In the bubble, he had to make one airplane flight, and that was from L.A. to Orlando for the start of the bubble. The rest of the time, he had no travel. So that's no demand on his body going flying to all these cities, all these really high pressure gains. And then in just the series alone, like, yes, he was recovering from an ankle injury, but he looked tired and he looked slower than we had ever seen him.

So listen, and I wrote this last week, like, you know, LeBron has haters. No one's going to feel bad for him. I get it. But let's just agree on something. At this stage in his career, and specifically with Anthony Davis on hand, he was not supposed to be in this position. he was not supposed to be the guy who was who was being counted on to carry an entire franchise he was supposed to be at this point maybe the greatest wingman of all time right like the facilitator you know fill in on on some off nights and anthony davis was supposed to be the guy and they won together

with a different formula but it was supposed to transition that way and it just didn't happen because anthony you know he just never could be healthy so you know, I think for LeBron to have a great season, the kind of season that he enjoyed in 19 and the 2019-2020 campaign when he led the league in assists, it really does start with Anthony Davis. He's got to find a way to be healthier. And I think if he is, I think that unlocks LeBron and we get maybe one more just really great year in the sun. That's what I feel too. He is going to have a long off season. He doesn't get those. So I'm with you. I think he has a great season. But I never even thought of all this. the airplane stuff. That's why you're smart, Joe. Joe Varden, senior NBA writer, The Athletic. He does terrific work. I cannot wait for the LeBron apartment store, apartment story. I think it's going to be, and that's very entrepreneurial of you and very smart, and it's very unique, Joe. I've been reading you for a long time. Great work, and thank you for stopping by our show. Oh, thanks for having me. It was great. By the way, I want to go to a deaf leopard concert now. I want to go, I'm going to go home and listen to Def Leopard and Bon Jovi today. Why not?

Yeah. Bon Jovi still when they tour is like the leading one or two tour bands in America. Oh, I love live music. Like put me in any concert. I'm going to be dancing my face off. You're still running your business on QuickBooks. How about QuickSand bigger you get the faster you sink? Not with NetSuite. NetSuite by Oracle. One of a kind financing program. Go to NetSuite.com slash Herd-H-E-R-D. have control and visibility over your HR, your e-commerce, your inventory, all that stuff. All right, Jason McIntyre next hour, more on the Nets. It is a Friday. It is flying by.

Alex and I come back in a few minutes, live in L.A. It's the herd. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and Hell. Ed writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The story I've told myself can then shape my behavior, and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast deeply well with. Debbie Brown if you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole. This podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the Iheart

radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. American soccer is about to explode. The World Cup is coming. Ramos sending on the only store at the chip. I'm Tab Ramos. I'm Tom Boe. On our podcast inside American soccer, get the real storylines, the biggest decisions, and the truth about the U.S. national team.

It wouldn't be a huge surprise if our team ends up in the quarterfinals or potentially a great run into the semifinals. Listen, Inside American Soccer with Tom Bogart and Tab Ramos on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was crying. You just understood.

That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis come in to you, he's like, you know, I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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