The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 06/22/2021 - Best of The Herd

Episode Date: June 22, 2021

Colin explains why Kevin Durant will never be considered the "Face of the NBA". He plays detective in order to figure out who Tom Brady was talking about when discussing the teams he considered signing with in 2020 free agency. He also compares Ben Simmons to an NFL QB who needs a change of scenery in order to reach his full potential. Plus, NBA Champion Stephen Jackson joins the show to talk about defending elite scoring in the NBA. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey,

or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the I Heart Radio app,

Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok's podcast network on TikTok. On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English.

Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it with our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. It was a wild year. It was a wild year.

I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening to The Best of Heard Podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday from 12 to 3 Eastern, 9 to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and FS1. Find your local station for the herd at Fox Sports Radio.com or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Heard. This is the best. of The Hurt with Colin Cowher on Fox Sports Radio. Here we go on a Tuesday live in Los Angeles.

It's the Herd, wherever you may be and however you may be listening. Iheart Radio, Fox Sports Radio, FS1. Joy Taylor is back, a little under the weather yesterday, still fighting that East Coast flu she brought with her. How are you? I'm doing good. Voice is a little hoarse, but we're good. You know what? We play hurt.

Of course we do. That's what we do every day. We play hurt. It's good to have you. And we talked about this yesterday, Joey. Just so many good stories in sports right now. And Magic Johnson, the great Magic Johnson, one of the great basketball players of all time. And certainly the most influential basketball player probably in the history of Los Angeles. And that's saying something, by the way. There's been a lot of great athletes. His business, his outreach all over the town. He's everywhere in Los Angeles.

Angeles, now part owner of baseball team, the Dodgers. But he said yesterday on another show in another network that LeBron has one year left, and then it's Kevin Durant's league after that. And I thought it was an interesting statement. And I thought, all right, let's go back. Speaking of magic, let's go back 40 years. It's 2021. Let's go back to 1981. Most of you were not watching the NBA in the 70s. I was kind of. But that's kind of when the league felt like it got big. David Stern, stars. The 70s didn't really have a face in the league. I mean, it really didn't. There was a bunch of different champions. I mean, Dr. Jay, kind of. So let's go to 1981. And let's look at who has been the face of the league. So in 1981 to 83, Magic had a title

with Kareem. Magic really helped the rebirth of the NBA. David Stern, the new commissioners like, let's promote the players. Magic was the face of the NBA. Magic was the face of the NBA. Magic really helped the NBA. It was his league. Larry Bird also came in about the same time. And then Larry Bird wrestled it away from him for about a three-year period mid-80s, where Larry was winning MVP's. Celtics were giving the Lakers a hard time. Magic wrestled it back from him at the end of the 80s to close out the decade. Magic now, the hook shot, winning championships and MVP's. So the 80s was Magic and Larry's league. There's no dispute. As good as Isaiah Thomas can be, it was Magic and Larry's League.

They were the most marketable. One was East Coast. One was West. One was a Celtic. One was a Laker. It was really a great time. I remember it well. It really felt like the, in sports, I look back and I think that's the beginning of the NBA for most people watching our show. That really feels like the beginning.

For most people under 60 watching the show. So it was Magic and Bird. Then we go to the 90s. Well, you know what happened there. It was Michael Jordan's League. from about 90 to 98, even when Michael briefly left for about a year and a half, it's still Michael's league. Only people went in it because Michael wasn't there. It was Michael's league. And then for about a 7-8 year period, like 99 to 2007, when centers mattered,

it went Duncan, Shaq Duncan. That was the Tim Duncan came out of college and was completely polished his first day in the league. And Shaq was the big personality. They were opposite human beings, right? One, the big personality, one very retic. but they kind of they were the faces of the league and then for a brief time the great late Kobe Bryant for about a two three year period 2008 2010 went to finals finals finals finals won a couple of them with powgassol he was the face of the league from that until today

it's been LeBron's league 10 years with a tip of the cap to Steph Curry who in the later years kind of try to wedge in there but it's LeBron's league so I want you to think about that first of all 40 years, seven people. Five of the seven are very engaging personalities, magic, and Michael was glamorous, and Shaq and Kobe and LeBron and style and personality and the great smile and they embraced it. Bird, feisty and combative, Duncan, reluctant. So it does prove, like Kevin Durant's personality, he's a little combative and feisty. So was Bird.

You could do that. He can be sometimes withdrawn. So is Duncan. You can be face of the league. But it's harder. It is harder. Market size, again, is not everything. Duncan was the face of the league in San Antonio.

So now let's get to Kevin Durant. Could he be the face of the league? Well, it's interesting. In his three stops, I'd argue he's never been the face of the team. In Oklahoma City, what was his frustration? management sided with Westbrook. As wrong as they were, and they were really wrong,

Kevin got frustrated with the coach and the GM who wouldn't confront Westbrook who was very difficult to play with. Kevin was called at one point Mr. Unreliable. Westbrook was more popular. Then he goes to Golden State

and he was their best player. Finals MVP. But the culture was created by Steph. Steff is the Bay Area. It was Steph's team. And then he goes to Brooklyn. Okay, it's his team. Well, not really.

The last two weeks it's been his team. But in the regular season, the hottest the Nets got was when Katie got hurt and Hardin took over. And weren't we on this show saying, man, Hardin really is a valuable player. He really is. I came on and said, I always saw him as a score. James Hardin's actually really valuable.

He's a really good distributor. He's trying on defense. it's hard to be the face of the league when three different times you haven't necessarily been the face of your team. And we do this all the time. We confuse brilliantly talented with the face of something or the culture setter. No, Kevin Durant is the most effortless, brilliantly gifted score in basketball. And I would argue that's probably been the last eight years. Maybe I'm wrong on the timeline.

Maybe it's 10, maybe it's 7, maybe it's 6. But he's a little withdrawn. He's a little competitive. He's a little feisty. And I'm not really sure he really wants to be that. Kevin Durant this year and next, and next, as long as he's healthy, will be the most gifted score in basketball. But don't confuse that with being the face of something.

the most important something. I don't think right now the NBA necessarily needs a face of the league. I think they're getting closer to the NFL. I think what's ironic here is the NFL was always very corporate. Actually, it's becoming, it's borrowing some NBA stuff. Let's let our guys celebrate. Guys are getting shoe deals. Star quarterbacks have an opinion.

And the NBA, I think, Looking at the NFL is trying to borrow some of their strengths. Why can't we just have good stories, good teams, fun people to root for, big market, small market, it doesn't matter. And actually today, I would watch a Phoenix Suns Milwaukee Bucks final. And I think it would be fascinating. And I didn't think that for a lot of years when smaller markets got in. I don't think the NBA needs a face. I think they've been too beholden to that through the years.

Remember, when Magic and Bird took over, the league was a little bit of a mess. It had come out of the 70s. Many teams were bordering on bankrupt. It had a little bit reportedly, you know, there were some drug concerns in the league. It didn't have a face. The Lakers were the best franchise. Not a lot of teams were making money. It wasn't well run.

In the 70s, playoff games, I'm not joking. we're on tape delay after the 11 o'clock news. I wish I was joking. I think the NBA actually, despite its critics, is moving into an interesting time where there's so much global talent. There are so many gifted players, you're not beholden to one guy.

I've got to be honest. I love watching Zion. Then I watch Trey Young and John Morant, Devin Booker, and I can't take my eyes off them. how about the NBA borrows a little from the NFL they don't need one team and one guy because I've watched the NFL

over the last several years and it's helped them borrow a little from the NBA. You're noticing that right? The NFL watched the NBA and said damn they're good on social media. Man, the talk shows talk a lot about him. Skip and Stephen A and everybody just go and talking NBA

and the ratings aren't that. huge way. The NBA is star-driven and they let their players celebrate and have fun in social media. And the NFL looks at that and goes, we can use a little bit of that. I kind of like that. And they have. And the NBA looks at the NFL and thinks, you know, Kansas City wins a Super Bowl. Tampa wins a Super Bowl. It doesn't even matter who wins a Super Bowl. It's just a bunch of good stories, good teams, feels like some competitive balance. And this year, we've got the clippers better than the Lakers, the Phoenix Suns probably better than all of them, and the Milwaukee Bucks ready to take on the Atlanta Hawks. And every night I'm watching,

they don't need a face. They did in the 70s, they did in the 80s, they did in the 90s, they did when Jordan left. They don't now. Be sure to catch live editions of the Hurons. weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds, I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media.

Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for Raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clivert Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger.

So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do a little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast.

I'm Sam Jek. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what we. went down and tried to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 was big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack, so I'm starting

to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now, so. Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games.

And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, We get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on Earth.

Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Keir Gaines, as we have real. conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way.

Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Uninterrupted is the show. It's LeBron James Maverick Carter, sort of production company, and they have a show called Uninterrupted where they bring like celebrities on and comedians and sports stars, and they kind of barbershop it and just have a big open conversation. They're swearing. There's big laughs.

And Tom Brady appeared on it and was. asked, it was kind of fun, he was asked, you know, when it got down to it, those last two or three or four teams that you were interested in, how did that go? One of the teams, they weren't interested at the very end. I was thinking, you're sticking with that mother? All right, who's he dogging? So Tom wanted to go to a team. Who was he dogging?

Now, let's just run through it. Many people think it's Garoppolo. It's not Garapolo. Garopolo just been to a Super Bowl. Okay. Garopolo and Brady have the same agent, a really nice guy, smart. guy, I know I'm Don Yee. You're not going to dog Garoppolo on television because Don Yee, Garapolo and Brady, there's a commonality there. That's not who he's dogging. Trust me on that.

You could say the Chargers, because there were a lot of rumors were the Chargers. Well, the Chargers, remember Tom said, stick with somebody. They weren't sticking with somebody. They were moving off Phillip Rivers, and they wanted Brady. In fact, in a weird moment of fate, I actually called the Chargers and told them. Brady signed with Tampa. And their reaction was, oh, damn, let me call Don Ye. It wasn't the Chargers. It wasn't Tennessee. There were rumors about Tennessee because Tannahill had just beaten Brady and was red hot

and you would look silly saying, that guy, he just beat you and played well. It wasn't the Colts because they weren't sticking with anybody. They had just acquired Philip Rivers, but they were interested in Brady. He wasn't really that interested in them. And then there's the Saints that was talked about. Drew and Tom are very respectful, about as respectful as, you know, competitors can be. They really like each other. He would never say that about Drew Breeze.

It's also not Derek Carr because Brady wasn't interested facing Patrick Mahomes twice a year with a Raiders bad roster. And he's not, you know, West Coast was always a challenge. And that got in the way for the Chargers too. It was West Coast, right? It felt like too far west. And they have a bad roster first year in Vegas. Gruden. So Tom Brady liked three teams. This I know. Tampa, where he signed, the Chargers. He liked their weapons. He liked their roster, but it was West Coast and that hurt and Chicago.

He was into Matt Nagy, like Tampa, good enough offensive line. Number one receiver, Alan Robinson, good defense, big city. You figure it out who it is? It's Mitch Trubisky. He really considered three teams. he considered Tampa, the Chargers, and Chicago. He wasn't going to go to San Francisco. Garapolo Don Yee there. He'd just been to a Super Bowl. The Colts, it's Peyton Manning's team, Chargers, Raiders, mostly out west. Tom wanted to stay on the coast he's been playing on. It is a shot at Mitch Trubisky, who for the record is now a backup.

So what Tom is saying as the goat to a now backup is a reasonable thing to say. Wasn't Tannahill, not Derek Carr. Derek Carr and Tannehill can play. Those guys can play. Garoppolo, by the way, for all the criticism he gets, we know Kyle Shanahan's a great coach. Kyle Shanahan's won like 18 to 20 percent of his games when Garoppolo doesn't start. Garopolo can play. Tom was with him for three years. He can play. He got to a Super Bowl. His only year is standing up in San Francisco. He got to a Super Bowl. So it is Trubisky. That's the answer. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. Hey, it's Ben, host of The Fifth Hour with Ben Mallor, along with my trusty sidekick, David Gascon,

would mean a lot to have you join us on our weekly auditory journey. You're asking what in God's name is the fifth hour? I'll tell you, it's a spinoff of the Ben Mallor show, a cult hit overnights on FSR. Why should you listen? Picture, if you will, a world when we chat with captains of industry, in media, sports, and more every week, explore some amazing things. facts about human nature and more. Listen to the fifth hour with Ben Mather on the

iHeart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented

it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle Great. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right what you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast.

I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84's big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack, so I'm starting to see that there's a through line.

We also have AIDS on the table right now, so. Thank you for finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games.

And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Trip Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses.

Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth. Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Keer Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way.

Open your free, our heart radio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Yesterday, an NFL player who I do not know did something, and it's courageous. It shouldn't have to be courageous. But unfortunately, it does take courage to do this because there's a percentage small as it is. is of Americans that if you don't live like them and look like them and think like them and do exactly what they do, then you are different, and I can't accept that. But a player came out and was courageous and said this, and I thought it was a wonderful NFL moment.

What's all people? I'm Carl Massim. I'm at my house here in Westchester, Pennsylvania. I just want to take a quick moment to say that I'm gay. I've been meaning to do this for a while now, but I finally feel comfortable enough to get it off my chest. I really have the best life. I got the best family, friends, and job a guy could ask for. I'm a pretty private person, so I hope you guys know that I'm really not doing this for attention. I just think that representation and visibility are so important. I actually hope that one day videos like this and the whole coming out process are just not necessary. But until then, you know, I'm going to do my best and do my part to cultivate a culture that's accepting and that's compassionate. And I'm going to start by donating

$100,000 to the Trevor Project. I like to meet Carl, love to have him on the show, and I just like to talk football. Not about his lifestyle, but we have to. Because there's that small percentage of people who can't embrace anything that's not exactly like them. John Gruden rushed out to thank him, so did Mark Davis, so did all the smart people. Media, let's embrace it and celebrate it and support people who support Carl. We have microphones and their very very much. very valuable and newspapers and print and TV.

Let's stop giving air time to angry people, loners on the internet, people who can't handle anybody that doesn't live exactly like them, and people who think because their candidate lost, it was stolen. There is a responsibility all of us have in the media. On this show every day, Joy and I select topics. many are not worthy of airtime. Sometimes we don't get it always right, but this story is worthy because suicide is a problem in America

with young people who are gay and different and not like your son or daughter. Great day for the NFL. Great day for Carl. Happy for him. Thought, if you like? Yeah, I think it's very important. I'm happy for Carl. It's obviously still a very scary thing to do to put yourself out there.

and, you know, put yourself out for scrutiny and the reaction from those people. Although I will say I overwhelmingly saw a lot of acceptance and kindness and respect and especially from around the league and the sports world. But, you know, to his point, representation is very important. Seeing people that look like you, seeing people that are the same sex as you, seeing people that have the same lifestyle as you, especially when you're a young person is incredibly important. And that's why he mentioned the Trevor Project.

And that's why he mentioned representation, and that's why he also put in his written statement that studies show that having an accepting adult when you come out as a young person can drastically affect your self-esteem and, of course, lower suicide rates in LGBTQ kids. So you can be that person, you can be that adult, you can be that coach, you can be that family member. And the more that it's talked about, the more accepting people are. And it's educational as well, obviously. Like having someone like Carl out there, putting himself out there, representing for his community, can help educate that percentage of people that you are talking about. One of the things I love about sports is just take the NFL or the NBA. NBA kids come overseas. Yeah. They go to G League. They go to big schools.

They go to small schools. And they all harmonize. It's about ball. In the NFL, some go to Alabama. They're great five-star prospects. First round star in the NFL. And yet half the league is undrafted. What makes sport so great is you get all these kids from different walks of life.

Some quarterbacks come from quarterback families. And then some quarterbacks are doubted and undrafted. And Tony Romo becomes an American icon. It's all about ball. It's all about harmonizing. It's all about bringing us together. Good for you, Carl. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio,

FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. When you want to trade a player, say nice stuff about him, don't let stuff leak in the locker room. And Philadelphia is going to move Ben Simmons. How do I know that? Because Darry Mory tried to trade him last year. Darry is Mr. Three Ball, Mr. Analytics, Mr. MIT. A guard that can't shoot, a forward that can't shoot is not his cup of tea. especially for the dollars.

And you can move every contract. Ben Simmons could play for Golden State in Phoenix, Golden State, excuse me, in Portland and be a good fit. And there's plenty of places he could. But it's not with a team with a dominant big and doesn't have enough shooters after Seth Curry. So he's not going to be in Philadelphia. Remember, people could say, well, Westbrook went to Houston when Darryl

Mori ran it. That was Tillman Fratita. The GM wanted some star power. That was not Darry's call. He's not a Westbrook guy. He's an analytic guy. He likes guys that can shoot. He's one of the guys, the early adapters to the three ball, Mr. Analytics,

Mr. Make a Shot is not a Simmons and Westbrook guy. So he's going to get traded. But Doc Rivers is starting the rehab tour with Ben Simmons. I believe without going in detail what we're doing, I believe we know what the right work is and the right type of work and the right way to do it. You know, you can do the work all the time, but if it's not done in the right way and the right type of work, you may not improve.

After being here for a year, I really do believe we've identified what and how. And now we have to do the due part. We have to work to do it. It's not going to be an easy job, but it's definitely a job that Ben can do. All right. So we're going to, what's all fine here,

we've got a little problem, we'll fix the problem. And the reason you do that because you don't want to do with the Philadelphia Eagles did. And Simmons and Carson Wentz are these very unique talents. They're bigger than people at their position. They're really strong. There's an athletic ability that's like legendary. Carson Wentz, big, six, five strong, huge arm.

Ben Simmons, six, ten and a half point guard, great defender. But the game got into both of their heads. And Ben Simmons can't hit a free throw. And Carson Wentz couldn't throw a screen pass. He got the yips. He could not throw the ball eight years. down the field without skipping it. The difference is the Eagles, a lot of bad stuff leaked.

The game's in his head. He's hard to coach. He's difficult. And that stuff started leaking out because Philadelphia, as we later found, between the owner and the GM was a very political place. And everybody was trying to save their bacon as the Eagles struggled. Right? The GM was, the owner is, the coach is, the coordinator is.

And so what do you do? You blame the quarterback. Oh, the quarterback, he's bad. He's uncoachable. He can't, it's very difficult. Nobody likes him. The problem is when you move Carson Wentz, you can't get anything for him. So the Eagles got nothing for Carson Wentz.

The Colts stole him from the Philadelphia Eagles. Stolen. The Sixers are going to do the opposite. Ben's a good kid. Ben's got a lot of talent. Got a little free throw thing. We're going to fix it. It's all going to be fine.

And that's the way you do it. That is the way you do it. Learn from the Eagles. If you got a player and it's going sideways, the last thing you'll want, and this is why we found this out in the last year, Joy and I have, the Philadelphia Eagles were much more political than I knew and Pride Joy knew. It was like a big political mess. When you got political situations, everybody's trying to save their butt.

And as Carson Wentz regressed when, you know, the Frank Reich left and nobody really connected with Wentz, everybody was trying to save their butt. So the easiest way to save your butt is rip the quarterback and leak stuff to the press. but kill his leverage. Nobody wants him now. And Philadelphia basically gave him. And if he ends up, and I think he will be a really good player, Philadelphia is going to look ridiculous.

Colts got their franchise quarterback for a nickel. It's going to look terrible for Philadelphia. The Sixers are going to do the opposite. They're going to defend Ben. Say he's great. By the way, don't be shocked. If there's not video that doesn't leak in the next two or three months, Ben working on his free throws,

suddenly you're seeing stories leaked. He's really coming. around, he got his confidence back, then you move him. That's how it works. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. You go to college with guys. Guys are weird, right? You go to college with guys. You go to the same broadcasting school and you kind of compete. You keep your eye on your buddies, how are your buddies doing? And we're all like peers, contemporaries, and you're in the same age, same class. And if they do better than you, you know, it hurts a little bit. So Sean McVe, Kyle Shanahan,

Matt LaFleur are tight. They're boys. And Sean was the first to get the head job. And he hit it out of the park. He was the Wonderboy of the league. I mean, good God, if you had an interview with him, a coffee with him, once, you got a job in the NFL, Zach Taylor. I mean, if McVeigh walked past in a shopping mall, you got a job in the NFL.

He was a wonder boy. And then, and it started kind of a turn because Matt LaFleur got the Packer job with Aaron Rogers. And now he's in back-to-back NFC championships, want to know against McVe. and Matt and Kyle Shanahan has now beat him four straight times, often with a backup. Now, is it McVeigh's fault? Did he forget how to coach? No, Goff struggled. In fact, this morning, I mean, he really struggled.

Goff really struggled. So if you go back to Jared Goff's four straight losses to San Francisco, he completed 56% of his throws, four TDs, four picks and a 70 passer rating, three of them he passed for under 200 yards. golf was awful. But bottom line is, Kyle was beating him often with a backup. So he is 0 and 5 in the last five times he's faced his contemporaries. So I think there's a little bit of that.

Sean came out, Boy Wonder, looked great. And he's taken multiple opportunities this offseason to say how great Matt Stafford is, which is kind of also simultaneously saying, that guy we got rid of. So here's another Matt Stafford compliment. I think I've been very happy.

Everybody says, man, you just seem like you're in a better mood this offseason. I said, you're damn right I am. That's about the third time he said something wonderful about Stafford. Now, McVeigh is hearing that people like me are going, you keep throwing golf under the bus here. So McVe would like to clarify these comments. I hate that I even have to say this, but I think I made a comment earlier that was definitely taken out of context. I am very excited.

I have been in a good mood because of the confidence I have in this team. But by no means, is that a slight to anybody, you know, like Jared, who has done a phenomenal job for the last four years here? There's a reason he came out and said that because he knows it looks bad when he constantly says how great Stafford is. Nothing was taken out of context. We took the exact quotes. Listen, your buddies, your contemporaries, your boy wonder, super bold, and all of a sudden now, Goff, and it is overwhelmingly, goff just hit a ceiling. The Rams are also kind of a top-heavy organization. They don't have a ton of depth.

One or two injuries on the O-liner running back, the girly situation, your right tackleer, your center gets hurt. And suddenly, Goff's not a guy in a muddy pocket that's very good. And by the way, San Francisco has got a great pass rush. the Rams offensive line sometimes got a little overwhelmed with the Niners pass rush and San Francisco's won four straight against Sean McVeigh. Nothing was taken out of context. The reality is guys are competitive, McVeigh's super competitive, and you start losing five straight games to your contemporaries.

It stings a little, especially when you were the first to get a job and you hit it out of the park and it feels like, wow, the pendulum has really swung. My guess is the Rams are probably, probably, going to win the division this year because I do think Stafford is good. I still think the franchise is too top heavy, but I think Stafford gets an upgrade in culture, head coach, O'Line, Cam Acres, wide receivers, and defense. Stafford's going to be great. He's going to be great this year. This is a 12 and 5, 13 and 4 football team, even in that division. So all of this will be forgotten. By the way, the Rams do play in week seven, I believe, the Lions and Jared Gough in L.A.

Look at the lion's schedule. They'll be like one in six or 0 and seven one of those when they meet. So McVey'll look right, which, by the way, he is. One more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHeart radio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Stephen Jackson played in the NBA for 14 NBA seasons, six different playoff appearances.

He played for Doc Rivers and Ty Lou. Mike Boodenholzer. So he knows all these coaches are most of them very well. He is now joining us live. By the way, I just read this. I'm going to share this with you, Stephen. The NBA, I like this, is expected to implement new rules next year to limit non-basketball moves that players have been doing.

They kick their feet. That'll now be an offensive foul. They strangely abnormally lean into a defender. That's an offensive foul. Do you like that? Are you okay with that? I just, I know what they're doing. I know what they're doing, Kyle,

and they're just trying to put a bandit on this bad defense that everybody planned. Kicking the leg out, yeah, I get that. But all the other stuff, you got to credit these offensive players for being smarter, and these guys need to pay more attention to detail on defense.

Well, PJ Tucker plays defense. You like him, right? I love PJ Tucker. Who else I was talking about, PJ Tucker? Beverly. Patrick Beverly. Those two guys are old school guys. They can play defense in any era because they take pride in it. We know that they're not the best offensive players, but on defense, they're definitely guys that I love watching because that's the way we play. And you've got to take pride in it. By the way, it's interesting when you watch PJ Tucker give Kevin Durant Fitz. Chris Paul, by the way, no longer in his prime, but he played defense.

What is the key when you face an offensive player? Give me a Stephen, if I was a great offensive player, and I had, I could shoot, I could drive. How would you get me off my game? Verbly, physically, how? Well, this is what PJ Tucker and Pat Bellby and guys like Bruce Bowen, they know. Great scores, you're not going to stop them. You just got to make it difficult. You've got to get into them.

You just got to make them miss more shots than they make. Kevin Durand is probably the best score ever, but we say one of the greatest scores ever. And PJ Tucker knows that, but you have to compete, you have to make it difficult. You can't stop them. You have to have it in your mind. going into it, you just got to go out there and compete to try to make it difficult for them. By the way, it should be noted. Milwaukee plays real defense. Phoenix is very athletic. The Clippers play real defense.

Was there an NBA player that, I mean, give me an example of a guy that you made a little more difficult. Like Kobe Bryant, did you make things a little more difficult? As best I could. I mean, at some points you couldn't do nothing. but, you know, I took, I can say, Dirk Dubesky. Dirk was the MVP, and when we played against him in the playoffs, you know, he was one of the greatest scores ever. Top 10 all time. I think he's top five all time, if I'm not mistaken. But I knew I couldn't stop him.

I just made it difficult for him. I took away the things he liked. He liked to go left. I made him go right. Every time he spun, we made sure another teammate was there. So it takes more than one guy to be a great defensive stop. But it takes a team to stop guys like that, but you just got to take away what they do. best and try to make them, ask something different to their game, that game.

By the way, Ben Simmons lost his confidence. Janus at times at the free throw line lost his confidence. I would think pro athletes, to be a pro athlete, you have to be hyper confident. But I mean, did you have teammates that ever lost their confidence? Did you ever lose your confidence? I never lost my confidence. I've never shot at Albaugh at the free throw line. I don't know how that happens.

I mean, you make it to the level of, to the place, to the point where you're playing in the NBA. You made it to the NBA. I was a second to last pick in the draft. I never lost my confidence because I made it to the NBA. I believed in myself. Me personally, I don't know what players go through to lose their confidence, but I've never played on the team where a guy lost his confidence. I just, that's just something I can't speak on. What, what, when you watch Simmons play, could you, could I argue if you surrounded him with shooters that he worked?

in this league. You just got to get him the right fit of players. Is that fair? Well, he can't be on the team with a dominant big man like Embed. Because Embed he draws so much attention, he draws double teams. And a lot of time, when it's swing, swing, and he gets the ball on the corner, and he can't take that shot.

You can kill the whole offense. I think he needs to be a power forward. If he's not going to work on his game, if he's not going to work on his shot, then put him at power forward and let him post up and initiate the offense as a power for it, because a lot of teams do that these days. But he can't be a point guard not being able to shoot this league.

And you can't be a point guard getting a hacker being. That don't even make sense. You know, it's funny. Magic Johnson said yesterday, Stephen, he said he thinks LeBron will be the face of the league one more year. And then Kevin Durant will. And I went back 40 years and I could only count seven guys who I really believe, some for a long time, some not, that had been like what I thought, the face of the league. It was Magic Bird, back to Magic Michael.

Duncan Shack, and then Kobe briefly, then to LeBron. So seven guys in 40 years. And even when Michael Jordan left, he was still the face of the league. Steph Curry got close for a year or two with LeBron, but LeBron was still the face of the league. And I said this about Kevin Durant. I'm not sure he wants to be the face of the league. I mean, he wasn't, you know, insane.

I agree with you. Yeah. I think he just wants to be a baller. Tim Duncan didn't care. So Kevin DeRoeh is just like Tim Duncan. Tim Duncan, they care about being the face of the league. Tim Duncan wanted to win championships. He wanted to play basketball.

He wanted to be the best basketball player he could be. And Katie's the same way. He could care less. I'm not saying LeBron comes out to play to be the face of the league, but he cares because he's been there for so long. And to whom much is given, much is required. He leads by example in that fashion. But Katie is just like Tim Duncan.

He comes out to play basketball. He wants to be the best teammate he can be, and he wants to be the best player he could be. And that's all he really care about. When you were playing with Duncan, in his prime. Did you feel he was the best player in the league? Oh, by far, by far. When we won the championship in 2003, nobody could do anything with Tim Duncan. When you're having almost a quadriple double in the

average, almost a quadriple double in the playoffs, and I just seen him dominate everybody all season long, it was a blessing to actually see the best player in the league, the MVP, the finals MVP that year. And when you're on a team with a guy like that, it's easy to see that he's the best. It's not even up a question. Wow. So when you look at the Clippers, so Kauai Leonard's out, Chris Paul's out. It looks like Chris Paul returned, perhaps in game three, Kauai may not return. Do you trust Paul George to carry this team?

Now, he did late against Utah, but Utah doesn't have very good wing defenders. That's their deficiency. Do you think you can put it on Paul George's shoulders and say beat Phoenix? Do you trust him? Yeah, I do. I mean, you got to look at it. Even though he had Kauai, this is probably the scrappiest team in the playoffs. This team plays hard. They have a team full of dogs. And look at the coaches. They have dog coaches, T. Lou, Chansy Billups, guys that know how to scrap and guys that know what it takes to go out there and win championships. So I think they can, man, because they're doing it as a collective group just like Phoenix is doing. It's not one of the two players. Yeah, yeah, Book is going down. Book is having an unbelievable postseason. Book is one of my favorite players in the league right now.

But this team is a scrappy team. And when you have a team full of dogs that are going to go out there and play as a collective, play team defense and going to fight, this team was down too old in both rounds before. So you can't count them out. And I think PJ is doing a great job of Silas and his critics. You know, it's interesting, Steve. Boondonholzer, who you played under, doesn't make a lot of adjustments. Tai Liu makes a million of them.

But when Ty Lou is changing around, there's a delicate balance when you have to go up to a guy that started the game before and say you're not starting. tonight. You know, when you were with San Antonio, you kind of knew the starting lineup, the first guy off the bench. It was pretty certain most nights. Clippers got like 10 dudes that play. Give me an insight into TIE lose personality. Why can Tye do that? And it doesn't bother any of his players when he shifts things constantly. Well, Pop did that too with Malik Rose and David Robinson. He shifted them and Steven, Steve Smith, my OG was starting at the beginning of the season. But I was playing welcome off the bench and I eventually end up starting on the team.

So I think what Greg Poppich do, where Poppich did, I think T. Lou do the same thing. He makes everybody feel important. He lets everybody know their role at the beginning of the season and know what's expected of them. So when it's their time or when their number is called, they're ready. You know, letting the guy know that, hey, you might not play at the beginning of season, but doing the end of the season where it counts, during the playoffs, we might need you. So stay ready.

Just telling the guy that letting him know where he stands, it's easy for him to stay involved. and stay intact to what the team is doing and buy into what the team is doing. But if you don't communicate with a guy like Steve Nash, did DeAndre Jordan end up playing them, then not playing them in the playoffs when you need him, it's going to cause friction, and it's going to be guys talking behind the coaches back, and it's going to kill the team morale a little bit.

But I think Tyloo is doing a great job of keeping everybody involved, letting everybody know that they're important just as the star players on the team. And that's why the guys that's coming in now, replacing with Kauai's hurt or having success. By the way, Trey Young is on fire. He's a very slight player. doesn't have a big build. And he's super quick, super, he's got super range.

He would be, I would think, Stephen, a hard guy. When I look at these curries and these Trey Youngs, you were a bigger, stronger guy. How do you defend a dame, a Steph, a Trey? I mean, God, they're at the logo. They're at half court. What do you do? Do you trap them? How do you defend them?

They're kind of hard because these guys handled the ball like I've never seen before. You know, not only can they shoot, but they can get their own shot. They handle well. They have a high IQ. So, dame, stuff, and those guys, it's kind of hard to stop. But I think Don Nelson was the best at it. Okay, I can't stop your offense. What I'm going to do, every play down court, I'm going to put you on the block and post you up.

Not the win out of you. And make you play defense every play. And I guarantee you, by the end of the fourth quarter, a lot of those shots, they're shooting going to be falling short. Yeah. Yeah. You got to go at them on, you got to make them play D. And I remember when we played Steve Nash, Colin, the first five plays of the game,

whoever Steve Nash regarding, we was posting them up, and we ended up beating Phoenix by 30. Make them pay on the other end. Stephen Jackson, Fox Sports NBA analysts. Good seeing you, man. You too, my man. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier.

This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple

podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman, documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Look Back at It Podcasts. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84's big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English.

Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. with our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.