The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 06/25/2021 - Best of The Herd

Episode Date: June 25, 2021

Doug Gottlieb filling in for Colin explains that Chris Paul doesn’t make the Suns worse, but he sure did last night. Aaron Rodgers may just opt out of the 2021 season but it could cause for more problems than solutions. Plus, Rayford Young: Trae Young’s Father and Dwane Casey: Pistons Head Coach joined Doug on The Herd! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hard Way with your favorite therapist and host, Kear Games.

This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor? It signals to the world that you're not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to. Listen and learn the hard way on the AHA radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying.

Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Thanks for listening to The Best of Heard Podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday. From 12 to 3 Eastern, 9 to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and FS1, Find your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports Radio.com or stream us live every day on the IHeartRadio app by searching Herd. This is the best of the herd with Colin Cowherd on Fox Sports Radio. What up? Welcome in.

This is The Herd, wherever you may be and however you may be making as part of your day. Thanks so much. I'm Doug Gottlie, filling in for Colin Cowherd. Happy Friday to you. Hope you're great. Hope you're ready for a big weekend? The world is open. I am fully vaccinated.

And I'm loving it. Let's get after it. Cowherd with his... Hey, congrats to Cowherd. Followed him on IG. Nailed it on his pick last night. A little gambling pick. Gave you Clippers.

Who, you know, kind of dominated late in the game and ended up taking the series to a two games to one lead. Of course, this is a, these are uncharted territory for the clippers. Uncharted. Now, outside of Marcellus Wiley, there's no real, like, real Clipper fans out there. I grew up in Southern California. And I can just tell you, like, when I was, there's no clipper fan.

We actually had a, this is a true story. When I was in high school, went to Tustin High School, which is in Orange County, that's the county just south of Los Angeles County. You ever had like a scavenger hunt? We kind of did a scavenger hunt one night. We were bored. And so we decided two cars full of basketball dudes, my high school teammates at Tustin High School. And we decided the first of us to find Clippers gear in any of the sporting goods shop.

You know, there's the big fives of the world. And this is before the dick sporting goods or whatever. The first of us to find Clippers. gear one. That was basically it. And you know what? We drove around all night. And this is mid-90s and early 90s. The clippers were actually good. Larry Brown was the coach. They went to the playoffs. They had to play in the Anaheim Convention Center because the riots in L.A., like all of these things. But you couldn't find Clipper gear anywhere. Of course, with Kauai Leonard, all thoughts were you could now all of a sudden they could win a championship. Last year they came up short.

They collapse after three games to one lead. They change coaches. And this year they've come back from two games to none down in the first two series. And of course, they promptly hopped out to two games to none deficit in this series. And they do so without Kauai Leonard. But a funny thing happened on the way to a Phoenix Sun's sweep, right? The Suns win the first two. And they do so without their future Hall of Fame point guard, Chris Paul.

You add in Chris Paul. And here's the simple takeaway. In math, addition is addition. In math, subtraction is subtraction. In sports, there's addition by subtraction and subtraction by addition. It doesn't make any sense in a mathematical problem, right? I mean, like, look, I try and tell people all the time. Do you guys know what the transitive property is?

The transitive property. No? You're like, wait, I was told there would be no math. See, cowherds analogies are so much easier to follow. Okay, but just stick with me for a second here. Okay. So the transitive property. All right.

So go ahead, look it up. Transitive property is, is if A equals B and B equals C, well then a must equal C. right, that's simple math. Or here's an easier way. If the Sons are better in two different games than the Clippers without Chris Paul. And look, there are players you can add to any of your rosters or whatever. If the Sons are a better franchise this year because of the addition of Chris Paul. Do I think Devin Booker's a star? Absolutely.

Do I think DeAndre Aten's coming into his own? Sure. Sure. You know, the addition of Jake Crowder gives the perfect amount of versatility, toughness. Occasionally it's a shot. He made a great pass, obviously the other night. McHale Bridges, a hybrid three-and-dee player can guard anybody,

stand in the corner, make a three, like all of it. But it all comes together when you have a quality coach like Monty Williams and you have point guard play in Chris Paul. Paul's a two-way player. He's a tremendous defender. He's a pass for his point guard. He makes people better. Yada, yada, yada. I do believe I have listened to Colin's show in which he said Chris Paul should be the MVP of the entire NBA. Am I right? I'm getting nods from everybody in the show. Okay. So if you add, it's not just an MVP candidate or by Collins' estimation, the most valuable player in the league and somebody who makes everybody else better and plays both ends,

well, I mean, like the transit property should tell you that if you're better with Chris Paul, you beat the clippers without Chris Paul, you add Chris Paul, you should be better than that it's addition, right? It's not just the transit property, it's simple addition. If three is greater than two, well, then you add four. Four is all still greater than two. I ain't the way sports works, bro. It just isn't.

Chris Paul screwed the whole thing up. And when I say he screwed up, it wasn't just he shot poorly. The pace is different. The shots are different. The style of plays. The matchups are different. And you had the clippers reeling. In the grand scheme of things,

Chris Paul doesn't make the sons worse as a franchise. But within the context of a series, the only real change was Chris Paul. And the Clippers were the better team, despite the fact that the Sons had better talent in game three than they had in game two. He only made 26% of his shots.

He was a minus 15 and plus minus. He scored 15 points. This was Chris Paul describing why they lost and how he played. They outplayed this tonight. We didn't make shots. You can tell they had, you know, a lot more energy. I got to be better. I shot terrible.

I got to pick up the pace. We'll be ready to game four. And I have no doubt that you can have a bad game. No doubt that you can have a bad game. You can be a great player and have a bad game. But the thing that's unique about sports is addition is not always addition. And subtraction is not always subtraction. It's just odd.

If you've coached, if you've played, if you've been around it enough, sometimes getting rid of one guy makes everybody else better. And sometimes adding one guy, no matter how talented that guy is, no matter how much he tries to make everybody better, no matter how much he plays defense, it screws things up. Think about that for a second. The clippers are without probably the, the second best player in the league.

I think Kevin Durant's the best. Kauai Leonard's the second best. We have the second best player in the league. He plays both ends of the floor. And I don't think they're better, but they're Paul George playing better. But, and I don't think grand scheme of things, again, it's addition by subtraction that they would be better throughout the season. They would be better throughout the playoffs if you didn't have Kauai Leonard.

But there is something to Reggie Jackson. being able to emerge because there's more shots and more opportunities, right? Luke Kennard and Patrick Beverly and like all of their roles change. And that you heard Chris Paul talk about energy. I mean, think about your energy if you go to an arena. If you know that Kauai and Paul George are going to take somewhere in the neighborhood of 45 to 50 shots and you might get a couple of looks. Now, you take Kauai out no matter how.

How much you know your team isn't as strong, but your role is going to be made to be more important and more involved. You're going to play harder. You're probably going to play better. Maybe even play above your level. Cameron Payne had dominated this series. Campaign was seen as a bust as a guy who was drafted to be a starting point guard and could never evolve into that.

They were playing faster. he was attacking the glass. He wasn't the mid-range shooter that Chris Paul is. And I don't know. Listen, I understand. I, like, dude, I've turned into radio shows and listen to fill in dudes all the time. And I get it. You're like, I don't know this guy.

You may know me when I, my show is 12 to 3 Pacific, 3 to 6 Eastern Time. The Doug Gottlieb show. There's also the All Ball podcast. Me and Fran Frasilla this week broke down all the topics in the NBA. But if you don't know me, I was a Chris Paul. Paul fan before it was cool to be a Chris Paul fan. It's like my, my, my, uh, my infatuation with the way Chris Paul plays is like, remember if you,

here's, here's the example. My brother was in college at Drake. Okay, Drake is a school in Des Moines, Iowa. He went to see Big Head Todd, the Monsters in, um, the fall of 1994. and he called me from the show and he's like, dude, go down to the record store, okay, and get this CD. It's Hooty and the Blowfish. They're awesome. They opened for Big Head Todd and the Monsters.

They're going to be the next big thing. Like, dude, I'm telling him, the name's Greg Gottlieb. He's my brother. And he called it in 94. He was like, they're going to be the next big thing. And you know what? They were the biggest thing on earth. Like that's how I was about Chris Paul.

Part of it is Chris Paul plays point guard as a former point guard the way I wish I could have played. He does all the things that I could do only does him a lot better. He's just, he's awesome. He's a point God. So this is not even me telling you I think Chris Paul stinks or is overrated. He's not. He's rightfully rated. He is a first ballot as soon as he retires and he's eligible, put him in the Hall of

And I do believe that there will be a moment, whether it's in this series or maybe in the next series, where you will see the real Chris Paul. And I'm hoping for him, a guy who he's been hurt, he's been in some dysfunctional situations, gets a chance to compete for a championship. But sports is not math. Okay. Sports is life. He ever heard less is more? More is not more. Less is more. the transitive property A equals B equals C

A must, it doesn't work in sports. In sports there's addition by subtraction and there's subtraction by addition. The sons were better before they added Chris Paul. And now, as I told you, a series doesn't start

with the clippers until they're down O2. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHard Radio app. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app. Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clivert Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement

to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger.

So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross

double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast.

I'm Sam Jek. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack.

I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah.

For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American. history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we don't realize that we're We are in possession of the thing, and we're still chasing it, and we don't know when we've done enough.

Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person.

Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free, our heart radio app, search learn the hard way, and listen now. I love lawyers.

I employ a couple of them, you know, and, you know, in this world, you need a good one. And I also, the more you live, the more you know

that this statement is true. Always read the fine print. You might find a loophole in, right? Like in, in buying, a house. When you buy a house, there are steps that you go through when you go like, hey, I want to buy a house. You agree to it. You go back and forth in negotiation. You have to have

earnest money, right? Put a little change down there. Get into escrow. But you're not necessarily locked into buying a house as a buyer until all the contingencies are removed. And even then there are ways in which you can get out of it. Actually, as a seller, it can be even more difficult to get out of than as a buyer. You've got to know the loopholes to this thing. Well, you're under contract. Like, that doesn't mean you have to buy the house. Sometimes you just get under contracts so you're under contracts and nobody else can buy the house.

I mean, there's loopholes in every contract. Here's one, and I don't know if you know it. Okay. that in media, in media, when we're at a media company and our contract is set to expire, even and almost all of these contracts are written this way if you're an employee of any of these major, you know, Fox, ESPN, CBS entities where there's a window of time, usually 90 days at the end of your contract, where you can negotiate a new contract with another entity. But the truth is that your current place of business,

even after you agree and even after your contract expires, has usually like six months in which they can decide like, all, we're going to match it and keep you, even if you don't necessarily want to stay. It's true story. Like you're not really, no one actually does it and flexes their muscle. If you want to go, you can go. But the truth is that when you're an employee of a,

specific company, any of the big three and other companies are like this, they can hold on to your rights and not let you go. You're like, well, that's a really bad deal. Yeah. That's why you need a really good lawyer. So Mike Floreo is a lawyer. I don't know if he's a good one, but I do know that he understands all of these contracts and all of the details. And I'm guessing that this is something that David Dunn is the agent that represents Aaron Rogers, right? David Dunn also, by the way, was the agent that represented Carson Palmer. And the last time we had a guy retire because he didn't want to play for an organization at quarterback, especially was a David Dunn client in a Carson Palmer.

Now, there's some similarities. Aaron Rogers at the time that he signed his contract was the highest paid player in the National Football League, Carson Palmer. Do you guys remember when Kimo Van O'Ohofen? He's a defensive lineman for the Pittsburgh Steelers in the playoffs. The Bengals were the better team. They had home field advantage against the Steelers in the playoffs. And Kimo rolls up on the leg and tears the knee of Carson Palmer,

which, by the way, was the first game played after he'd signed this gargantuan contract. Now, what happened was Carson Palmer, he came back to since when he signed the contract, he said, like, look, I love it here. We got good talent, but you got to promise me we're going to do X, Y, and Z. we got to take this franchise from the perception as cheapest franchise in the NFL to being a legit we want to win championship we got to do things like a championship team it's the old when when marvel lewis took over it wasn't they didn't stay in a hotel the night before a game in the for home games and you may think like that's not a big thing well when you're when you're the bongles and you got dudes that are running running wild and oh yeah by the way it's also assigned to veteran players that you're just you're not a taking care of your guys. From old towels to bad practice facilities to everything.

The Bengals were seen as being ridiculously cheap. And whatever was promised to Carson, they didn't fulfill it. And Carson had enough money. He's like, I'm just, I don't want to do it anymore. So he walked away. So

there is precedent for it. The difference is, Aaron Rogers just won the MVP. No one I know has said this, the Packers are anything but a professional organization. And while they made him the highest paid player in the National Football League, it's not like that deal just happened, but, but Aaron Rogers is still under contract.

So I'm guessing, this is just a guess, that's a guess, that David Dunn's people sent the contractor this little clause in the NFLPA deal. Or maybe it's just Mike Florio fishing, right? Because he fishes for stuff. So Florio's report regarding Aaron Rogers has the ability to sit out the 2021 season. And you're like, you mean retire? No. Okay.

Because remember, if he retires, then he has to pay back essentially $20 million in signbox. Because Aaron Rogers' contract, much like Deshaun Watson's contract, Aaron Rogers' contract, they got, they get like the first three years of bonuses. They get all paid up. get put into an escrow account, and they get basically paid up front. And so if he retires, the Packers have the right to go like, uh, Hi, Aaron.

This is Brian Gunnickon's office. Yeah, we just want you to know that, uh, $20 million in the signing bonus that we gave you for three years up front and other roster bonuses. We're going to need 20 back. Um,

by the end of business Friday, thanks. Right. If you have any questions, call us back. at 888 GoPAC Go. That's the thing with Deshawn Watson. Sean Watson's contract,

the extension basically just went live. He signed it like 12 months ago. And he got paid three years up front. So if he were to sit and not play, and granted, there's all kinds of stickiness now with the off-the-field allegations against Deshaun Watson. I mean, this is why they don't want to trade him. It's not just because they don't think they can get a top five,

top 10 quarterback back. and return. But like, dude, we paid you for three years of work you hadn't done. And now you're going to force our hands and lead? Huh? But anyway, there is a clause because of what the NFLPA and the NFL just agreed that all players, Aaron Rogers included, have until July 2nd. That's a week from today to opt out of the upcoming season.

Right? This is the carryover from the COVID opt-outs of last year. The NFL is a lot. allowing players to opt out voluntarily, no questions asked. You don't have to say the motivation. You don't have to say COVID. You don't have to say family. Like, if you want to sit for a year, you're good.

And Aaron Rogers would be saving the $20 million that he'd be losing if he were to retire or refuse to show up to work for a year. Last year, remember, the Patriots lost eight players to opt out, including Dante Heightower. Here's the problem with opting out. So for Aaron Rogers to opt out, that's him saying, I refuse to play for the Packers, but I want to hold on to this cash, which can you blame him? Right.

The problem with it is if he opts out and sits out, no questions asked, right? No questions asked. Well, the contract rolls over to the following year. So then he's still under contract for three more years. and he loses one of his prime years. It's, I mean, like, look, we're all realist. Would he save or protect his body, I guess? But he's still a year older and less likely to perform the way he did last year.

Not just being away from football for a year, but being a year older. This, this, again, it all feels like, it all feels like the, the Packers know Aaron Rogers has been told we're not trading you. Period. Stop. Because I want you to think about it.

The real time to trade Aaron Rogers is before the draft. Like this talk of trading him to Denver. What are you going to trade him for? He wants to go to Denver because Denver badly needs a quarterback. It's in the AFC. By the way, altitude

helps your ball travel further, not just normally, but as you age and help Peyton Manning. So he either want to play in a dome in good weather or even better in altitude. And he's already played in the bad weather in Denver because he's played in bad weather in Green Bay,

but as his arm loses strength like that, that makes sense. Plus, they have a loaded roster. The only thing they're missing, a quarterback. Of course, the Packers, they don't want to trade them, but if they were, they're going to have to get players back, not picks. Additionally, the picks now, if you trade Aaron Rogers

to the Broncos, the Broncos are going to be a really good team. And so, you know, much like the Raiders trading before the season to the Bears, you trade Khalil Mack, that draft pick is no longer a top 10 pick. So that's why Aaron Rogers camp, I don't believe for a second, not for a second, Adam Shepter going, well, you know, I just had the story and I just decided draft day to let it go like that. That smells of bull crap so bad that I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, you know, I, I, I, you know, I, I, I, I got to go get some Fabrees and spray it all over him.

Of course, David Dun and Aaron Rogers weren't getting their way. They asked the Packers, the Packers said no. So then draft day, they're like, oh yeah, by the way, here's this story. And oh, yeah, by the way, the San Francisco 49ers have called. Once the draft passed, if you noticed, there was some chatter. But then over the last couple weeks, it's died down. Now this pops up. They know Aaron Rogers is not opting out.

But this is a threat. This is the only leverage you have. When you're under contract for three more years, after this year with the Green Bay Packers, do you think for one second that they feel like they're going to be leveraged? No. And the last part, and this is a really interesting, this is kind of the all-time backfire to it,

which is, let's say Aaron Rogers did opt out. And it forced the Packers hand, right? that forced the Packers hand, do you think the Packers are going to think this is showing goodwill? Like, he's already done everything he can to try and get the GM fired and destroy the culture of the Packers.

And look, I understand. He has his reasons, and Aaron believes what he believes, and he's a guy that the more you say you can't, he believes he can, not just as a player, but as a person. Like, I get it. I know Aaron a little bit.

it. I understand that he is, he is a dude of principle. He has his beliefs. He thinks he's been wronged and you don't want to hear anything of it. But do you think for a second that the Packers are going to go like, oh, Aaron, you want to go to a team that's a quarterback away from being a Super Bowl contender? Yeah, we'll do that. Sure. No problem. No. They would be vindictive as hell. Wherever the worst possible place for him. Hey, Houston, you want to make a deal? right? We're going to send you somewhere football Siberia. The last thing we want is Aaron Rogers to win a Super Bowl, especially when he used an opt-out clause to sit on $20 million.

No, no, no, no, no. That's not happening. So this is just a lawyer, like Florio, finding a loophole and using it as some sort of threat towards the Packers. Do I think it works? No. Because the fine print, and it's just like in a, you know, you get one of those new credit cards, right? And the credit card's like, hey, you know, first six months, 0.9%.

That's all we're going to charge you. Hey, what happens after those first six months? Oh, it goes up to 18%. 18% interest. Yeah, we got to make some money. It's a credit card company. The fine print of this Florio story about he has a week to decide whether or not he's going to opt out to save $20 million is the contract rolls over.

He's just, we're just always going to do is punt and we'll play the same game next year year older and much less likely to get his way with the Green Bay Packers. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays at noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. Hey, it's Ben, host of The Fifth Hour with Ben Mallor, along with my trusty sidekick, David Gascone, would mean a lot to have you join us on our weekly auditory journey. You're asking what in God's name is the fifth hour? I'll tell you, it's a spinoff of the Ben Mather show, a cult hit overnights on FSR.

Why should you listen? Picture if you will a world when we chat with captains of industry in media, sports, and more every week, explore some amazing facts about human nature and more. Listen to the fifth hour with Ben Mather on the Iheart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human beings. potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep,

that's me, Clipper Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music.

The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right what you need to be. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with a little kill?

Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack.

I'm down to talk about crack on day, but yeah, yeah. No, we don't have plenty. But just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed correct. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence.

Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me.

your host and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing.

And we're still chasing it, and we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely.

And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose. On my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free Our Heart Radio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Ray for Young his dad joins us now in the herd on Fox Sports Radio. Ray, how are you?

I'm doing great, man. How you doing, Doug? Good. There are thousands upon thousands of dads that are watching your kid. And they're sitting there going like a 6-1-6-2 guard from a nice suburb of Oklahoma. Like, how did you do this? When Trey was 12, what was he doing? When Trey was 12, we were spending more time in the gym than probably traveling around the country,

planning a bunch of events. Now, I won't say that we didn't go play big-time AAU tournaments and, you know, go from Oklahoma to Dallas or Houston or, you know, Kansas City. But I just, I felt I thought it would be more. more important for us to work on his skill work and work on, you know, his ability to do things as a small point guard rather than trying to go out there and, you know, focus on rankings and, you know, playing some huge tournaments as a kid. You know, what's fascinating, and it wasn't that you didn't pass, but your job was to score

when you're in college. When you play against you, like, you were a scoring machine. And your teammate was now coach Dan Bonowitz, like, he was more. kind of the passer facilitator. Some of it was he couldn't get a step the way that you'd get a step, but some of it was that that's how he'd play. But I'm always fascinated. Like for my son, okay, for my son, like,

he better be able to shoot, right? Like, you got to fit, whatever the hole was in your game, like you can't have your son have that hole. And he's a very confident shooter, right? When you help Trey put together his game, what part of your game that you felt like was missing that did you want to inherently build in him? You just said it. It was a passing. You know, Trey, Trey's always been a really good shooter. You know, when you're small and you're playing against older kids and you're, you know, trying to compete at a high level, you know, you got to be able to put the ball in the hole. So that was the first thing that, you know, he always worked on. He's putting the ball in the hole, been able to shoot it and fill it up. But I remember having conversations with him, you know, early in his junior high, early in high school year.

that you've got to be able to pass the ball. You've got to be able to put the ball on the floor, get, you know, get paint touches, get in the lane, and find your teammates. And that's where you're going to take your game, you know, to the next level. So that was pretty much the focus as he got older. How has he dealt with the jealousy, right? Like that's, it's got to be the hardest thing to deal with is at Oklahoma.

You know, you come in. You take the college basketball world by storm, but, you know, older dudes are like, hey, it's been my turn. You know, you get to the NBA and his dudes trying to shoot Steph Curry, Gilbert Arena shots. How does he deal with that? How does he process? Well, for me, I think it all comes down to his circle of people. You know, with his mom, me, his brother and sisters, you know, his family and, you know, his close. friends. He knows who's really there for him, who cares for him, who's going to, you know,

pull for him in good and bad times. And, you know, jealousy is just something that comes with it. You know, you can't control that. And I'm not here to say he went through a lot of that, but, you know, he did have some rough times in high school and in college. And I don't think that's been the case so much with Atlanta Hawks. They really, like you said earlier, put a good group of guys around him to help him succeed and, you know, compete at the NBA level. What has Nate done? It seems to have, it seems to have,

and this is no negative towards Lloyd, but whatever happened, when Nate took the job, something changed. What was it? You know, first off, you know, you never, I know for me, I never want to see a coach get fired, especially African-American coach. You know, Lloyd,

I'll always give him credit for giving my son the basketball and letting him go out there and do the same thing Coach Krueger let him do. Go out there and learn, make mistakes. And even through those mistakes, let him keep playing. But the thing about Nate is when he came, he brought a different dynamic of experience and he had that real life experience of telling stories of playing with Gary Pating and, you know, playing on the NBA level. And I think, you know, to a certain extent,

Nate has been also an extension of me. So my conversations with Trey are less about basketball now and more about life. And Nate is someone who's coming to Trey's life and giving him confidence that he can be great, you know, on this level playing an NBA. Bro, he came off a ball screen and threw it off the backboard. And it's one thing to do it in a guarantee game in college

when you're playing against Southeast Missouri State and you're up 40. But in like a two-point game against the Bucks in the Western Conference finals, your son's coming off a ball screen, throwing a ball off a backboard for an alley-up dunk. On any level, I cannot believe what he just did.

Well, think about it, Doug, just like you said earlier, we've known each other for a long time, and I've always tried my best to put Trey in situations where he could be himself. and I couldn't control it at the NBA level, of course. But in junior high, I made sure he was playing for the right coach. They would let him be himself.

I did the same thing in high school where he was recruited to all the prep schools, but he decided to stay home and go to Norman North, where he got to play his game and be himself. And it was the same thing at Oklahoma. You know, he could have went to Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, and all these schools and been one of four or five other All-Americans, but he stayed at Oklahoma where he had a chance. to play his game and be himself and, you know, just play free. So he's been really blessed

to have that situation. And it's the same thing with Atlanta Hawks. You know, with them drafting him, one thing they've always done is they've never taken away his freedom, no matter if it was Louis Pierce or Coach Nate. So, you know, Trey has certainly worked hard to get where he's at. You know, it takes a little luck for this as well, but he's also been blessed. And I hate to make it sound so simple, but, you know, that's, that's truly what it is. Yeah, well, it's, it's, I, I think, and again, feel free to correct me, right? It's an unbelievable work ethic, right? Oh, yeah. And then there's an unbelievable level of confidence, right? Right. You're a, you're a small point guard. You, you better have the level of confidence where no one can tell you,

you can't do it. But how do you balance, how, but how do you balance it, right? It's like, I'll just, this is letting you in way too much. So I have a 13-U team. My son, he's too little. He doesn't play for it. A platinum-level team, right? And we had a kid who last night I had to part company with, not because he's not a talented player,

but because the dad was telling him, hey, my kid needs more touches. And we couldn't run any offense. We couldn't share the ball. Couldn't get him cutting. Couldn't get him playing team basketball, right? So how do you find, how do you balance it? Like, look, bro, I know you can come down and anytime you get it.

It's like that last shot against the Knicks, which ended the series. Like that's what he wants those dagger shots. How do you find the balance between the confidence and the intelligence of making the right play, even if the ego tells you you can make every play? Well, that's, I mean, that's a tough question. It's a great question. But the only way I know how to answer that is I feel like basketball is just as much, you know, in between the ears as it is physical. And what I mean by that is, as you know, like Trey and I spent years and years and years just sitting on the couch and talk Tim Duncan.

Like we're watching Tony Parker play with Tim Duncan and win championships. You know, we're watching Kobe Bryant playing with Shaq and winning championships. But we're, like, I truly believe one of the things that are missing with today's younger kids, you know, younger athletes, especially in basketball, is they don't, they don't watch the game. You know, there's, they watch their phone, they watch TikTok of their phones, they watch highlights on overtime, right? They don't actually watch the games themselves. Exactly. And I, and, you know, I'm not here to bash any, any other kids and say mine's the greatest and the best ever. but I truly believe that, you know, the times we spent sitting on the couch,

watching NBA games, watching college games, and then maybe driving two hours to Dallas, Texas for a tournament or two hours to Tulsa and just talking basketball has done more for his development than putting some cones on the court and dribbling through cones and shooting. That said, his floater game is spectacular, right? Right. Am I wrong to think the way Milwaukee guard him in game one is the exact wrong way you want to guard Tray Young?

I don't know, man. I don't know. I don't know. I don't want to have his wrong or right. I just know that one of his strengths is his floater in his mid-range game. So I've never quite understood why people talk so much about him shooting 30 and 35-foot-3s because, you know, he's, you know, he's just as deadly shooting that floater. And that's something we've worked on for years, years and years,

because he's always been the smallest kid. So you've got to be able to get in the lane and hit that floater. So I don't know. I don't know what's going to happen to this series. I hope the good guys, you know, the Atlanta Hawks pull it out. But I'm sure both teams are going to make adjustment. What's it like to see your kid drop 48 in his first Western Conference Finals? The Eastern Conference Finals game.

It's unreal. It's one of those things where you've got a kid and you go to bed at night when he's younger and you dream about it, but you never really think it's going to happen. And when it does happen, it's kind of hard to keep it in, you know, emotionally. Because like you, I mean, we grew up watching the greats. And I never thought my son would be dropping 48 and 11 assists in the Eastern Conference finals. I might have daydreamed about it, but to see it really happen, it's just very, very heartwarming, but I know he's worked hard.

I mean, he's worked hard and he's sacrificed a lot of things as a kid, but maybe not going to parties or maybe not going to sleepovers with his buddies. But, you know, he's worked to get here, and I'm just, I'm proud of him. Ray, man, congrats. It's great to see you. Great to see you on TV. Great to talk with you. We'll catch up in person in the meantime.

I know, I know there's a couple more kids there that you're raising as well to be, to be whatever the best that they could be. continue that and thanks so much for joining us. Yes, sir. Thanks for having me. Talk to you soon. All right, that's Rayfer Young, who of course is the dad of Trey Young. One more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week, within the IHeart Radio app.

Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. He's now the head coach of the Detroit Pistons. He's Dwayne Casey. He joins us in the herd. I'm Doug Gottlie filling in. Coach, how are you? Hey, Doug. How you doing, buddy?

I'm good. It's good to catch up on radio. I've got to do it in person sometimes soon. I know it. I know it. Let's stick with the Eastern Conference, obviously, because you've been there for long enough as a head coach, two different teams.

Between game one and game two, I think here's a question that people always wonder. Why in the NBA playoffs are the adjustments made in between games, not at halftime? Well, I think there's subtle adjustments, Doug, that are made at halftime. I just don't think there's as profound as, as we may think. It may be playing a particular player

of more minutes in the second half. I don't know if, you know, some teams, if you're a veteran team, I would say like Milwaukee, you could do a little bit more as far as adjustments is concerned, but the younger the team, probably the less dramatic

or profound adjustments to or changes you can make, whether it's the changing of the defense or if we're going to, you know, play more as a different. zone or whatever, things like that. So, you know, I know it seems like that a lot of, and again, it depends on what team, how smart your team is. Some guys can't make that adjustment that quickly if it's a huge adjustment, a huge change.

So most of the playoffs, most teams right now in the playoffs will do something subtle, more so than profound for the second half. when you were in Toronto and you took on the Cavs you guys had a home court advantage is that a good is that a good thing did you feel like it I guess you wondered if it adds to the pressure of the situation that there's an expectation that of home court advantage and it goes back to the same thing

at that time we were a little bit of veteran team or we had been together for a while at that time there was pressure because we felt like that was our I think we won 59 or 60 games that year. So we felt like that was a year we were going to get Cleveland. And if you remember, Doug, that game, we had three cracks at it to win the game. We like five seconds ago in the game. We get game one because Cleveland had just come from a tough series against Indiana.

Indiana, right? Game seven, yeah, yeah. Right, and game seven in Indiana. So we almost get game one. The series is old. I mean, well, we have a better chance of getting a series. or at least not, you know, being as tough. So we had an opportunity that year, but again, you're exactly right.

If you're not a veteran team, a team that can handle pressure under those circumstances, that first game at home is pressure, you know, as far as pressure to win, pressure to get over the hump. And when you don't get it, it's very difficult to get it back. And that's going to be interesting to see how Milwaukee balances back from that because, you know, from the two teams tonight in Atlanta and Milwaukee. Milwaukee is the one with more pressure. Right now, Atlanta's playing with free money.

They're playing with house money. They're having fun. You know, they don't have the expectations that Milwaukee has. I mean, the perfect example of it is Trey Young comes off a ball screen and throws an alley-oop off the backboard. Like, you know, in an Eastern Conference final game in the second half, You're like, what? Like, if that's not playing free and easy, I don't know what is.

Right. And Doug, knowing Nate, I coached Nate and coach with Nate in Seattle, I know that's not something that Nate's professing or preaching is Alleyoop off the backboard. So, again, like you said, they're having fun. They're free and easy. They're very talented young team. So the pressure right now, they're not feeling the pressure that Milwaukee's feeling. because they don't know what they don't know. It's a great.

It's a great point. They don't know what they don't know. Bud has been a guy. Mike Boodenholzer's been a guy who he kind of, it's like that old school basketball. And obviously, you know, you as a great player. You remember kind of the older school basketball is like, hey, we do what we do well.

And they got to stop us. Like, I don't, that drop coverage and playing a big, like, I don't, I don't know. you've coached against Bud a lot in Atlanta. Right. In Milwaukee, how apt to change do you feel like he is? Well, again, it goes back to our original conversation, Doug. I think if you have time, days between games and days to get ready for a team that's playing drop coverage

and you have shooters that can space the floor and the same thing happened, I thought, to Utah. that they spaced the floor and you go small. You may not go small the entire season. But if you have time to prepare to play with a small lineup, the way that the Clippers did against Utah, and now the way Atlanta's doing versus Milwaukee, you can exploit some of the matchups. You get Lopez in rotation and where he has to get out to the corner.

And if I remember correctly, they didn't play him a lot in the fourth quarter, in that first game. So, you know, it's difficult. They've had a lot of success. They're very talented, but it's a very good coach. But playoffs is about having the tools to be able to exploit matchups in certain situations. But you've got to have the tools to do it.

And Atlanta has the tools. John Collins, I think, is playing terrific basketball. Yeah. Huge three. And the rebounding. I thought the rebounding was really. Everybody's talking about Trey. But the offensive rebounds as there, and for people who don't understand what's changed with the NBA,

and you've been through so many different generations of it, it's not just a three-point shooting, but the offense is so spread out that when a shot goes up, like John Collins is outside the three-point line, he's got a running start at the rebound, and you're underneath in the lane, that's even harder for a boxout, and Milwaukee, frankly, missed some of those boxouts. Doug, that is exactly right. offensive rebounding with a spread, with a small, you say, well, they don't have the size. Well, you don't need it when you're attacking them from behind. You crash on the boards from the corners.

You know, again, it's one of those things where, like you said, you spaced out. They don't see you. Most players don't turn and look to see where the offensive rebounds are coming from. There are a lot of long rebounds when you're a three-point shooting team, and I thought that was a difference in Atlanta yesterday. And I, Trey, what, he scored two buckets or two points from the field in the fourth quarter and the rest of them with free throws. So it wasn't really Trey. He was causing problems, but it was the offensive rebounding, the rebounding numbers that I thought won the game the other night.

Dwayne Casey, joining us to head coach of Detroit Pistons. I do want to get to your franchise and your team and the great news that you're going to get the number one overall pick in a moment. in the Western Conference, and you've been through this before, I believe in that last series against the Cavs, it was trying to figure out end-of-game adjustment against LeBron James, and you're trying to figure out, all right, do we put a big in, do we not put a big in, and they end up going full court instead of going to the sideline.

All right, take me through from your perspective as a coach, Tyloo decides to put DeMarcus cousins on the basketball, puts Zubach on DeAndre Aiton. They decide to not switch, and then Moni draws up a perfect play that they execute. From the coach's perspective, what would you do differently if you got a second chance at what happened to Tyloo?

Well, what I would do is, and again, DeMarcus, I don't know what was in his mind or what he was told to do, but if you noticed him in that timeout, I mean, on that pass, he was straight up and down the court instead of taking an angle to take away the sight line of the rim. So if he gets to the side, jumps up and down like he's going crazy, trying to time the pass, he was just like, you know, kind of standing there. So it was an easy pass.

He was an easy pass for Crowder to the rim. And the other thing, if would or could or should have, if you could switch, even though it's a small and a big, if you could get just in his path just to slow him up just enough where you disrupt the timing on the lob. Again, it's easier said than done, you know, because I give you example in that situation. You mentioned it with the Brian James. He went full court because in the timeout, we specifically told Pascal, we want a trap. want to trap LeBron, as soon as the ball goes to him, go and trap him. If Kevin Love brings the ball up the floor and tries to go coast to coast, we'll live

with that because I think you can catch back up. So lo and behold, when it goes into LeBron, Pascal, his instincts told him to take off with Kevin Love. And so that left whoever was guarding LeBron alone one-on-one. So Pascal is a young player, you know, young in the playoff experience situation. So, again, you can give all the adjustments you want, but again, you're dealing with human nature and human beings. And that's, you know, we make mistakes. So that was a situation there.

And I'm sure, you know, DeMarcus was told to get in that sight line where you disrupt that pass. It was a great play. Jay Triano had run it before. And we had seen it before. And people forget there's no offensive go-tending on out-of-bounds play. So all you have to do is go up and throw it right, almost shoot the ball into the rim if you have a good look at it. Yeah, at least three seconds of defending the middle

and then maybe you worry about the, maybe we're about the corner. He wasn't even really active on the play. That said, I felt like last night was the old addition, subtraction by addition, right? Like, I love Chris Paul. If I could have been like Chris Paul, I would have played in the NBA, right?

There's so many things he does. But he kind of screwed up how they were playing. How do you navigate that, manage that as a coach where you have a great player, but we're already rolling and it kind of changed the way Phoenix played? Well, you know, again, you know, it's that you want to play Chris, but again, you almost have to save guys from themselves. He's such a warrior. He's such a great leader.

He's been a great leader for that team the entire year. But the problem is, you know, he's. been in COVID protocol for how many days. The guys probably haven't, hasn't played two on two, three on three, four, and four at all. So that's the situation he's in. But then what throws another wrench in the situation is campaign goes down. So he's hurt. So his minutes probably got extended more than what money wanted to play him. So it's a tough situation. I still will ride with Chris Paul because he brought us to the dance. And even though they played well without him in that first two games,

you still need Chris Paul to win. So a tough situation, but I really, I get how Marnie was probably thinking in that moment, or that game. Dwayne Casey, our guest. Okay, so you get the number one overall pick. What's that feeling like? It's great. I've probably made a fool out of myself, Doug.

There's a video going around that my wife took that I jumped up when it's cheering like I won the championship in which, you know, we got the number one pick because you don't get that too many times in your career. And it's just great for our organization. You know, we retooling, restoring a really proud franchise here in Detroit. So it's one of those things where it's just something good that's happened for our organization. You know, we lost Blake, we lost Reggie Jackson, lost Andre. And so we're trying to retool that talent pool to get to where those guys are now. And it takes talent. You can X and O all you want to, and if you don't have talent,

and that's what Troy Weaver has done, that excellent job of bringing in the right people. We got a good young group, and just to add a number one pick or, you know, or add more talent to that base is really, really excited. for our organization. Has, where are, how close are you to deciding who you want to pick? Well, we're going to keep our options open, you know, we've,

we've had, unfortunately, unfortunately, we've had two months to prepare and watch a lot of college game tapes of all these guys and see them, but we're going to keep our options open, Doug. And we have to, you know, if the right situation comes along and, you know, you put yourself in that position with the number one pick and you're in the catbird seats.

So we're going to look at all the options. We're doing our homework. We're doing all the attention to detail things you do to make a correct draft pick. And again, the top four guys are really, really exciting players. And so I don't know if you can go wrong and probably one or two above the others. but if you get any of the four of them, you've got a good pick. If I told you, one of them reminds a lot of people,

he reminds me a little bit more of Penny Hardaway, but some people say Grant Hill, of course, is a great player in Detroit. Is that a fair... I would agree with you. I would agree. That's a fair assessment. I totally agree.

I know who you're talking about. I can't talk about him, but I agree with you. I don't know if you can't talk about him. I just, it's generally like, well, you don't talk about one guy, whatever, because they don't, They're not property of of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of any.

Another team. Right. Right. Okay. So, but, but, but that's like that's, that's, but we know who we're talking about. Is that. There you go. Penny, Grand Hill.

Like, those are two pretty good comparisons that you think they're appropriate. Two Hall of Fame we got, two Hall of Fame guys. And you take that any time you have an opportunity with it. But again, we're going to keep our options open and, and, uh, do our due diligence and, and, and, and, on all the, the top players in that situation. But that assessment is a really, really good assessment. How hard is it, or maybe not hard? What is it like for you to go to work in this process?

Considering when you were in Toronto, you guys were this close to winning a championship, and obviously they won a championship. You're this close. But I just wonder because you're looking at, look, Milwaukee bottomed out a couple years ago and look where they are. Phoenix bottomed out and look where they are. Atlanta bottomed out and look where they are, right? There's obviously Philadelphia's bottomed out,

but in the moment, what is it like to actually go to work and you're watching all these other teams compete for, and I was just there. I was competing for a championship a couple years ago. What's that like for you? Well, it's exciting, first of all. And I think, again, the teams you talked about is so important to get the right mix.

The chemistry, guys that fit, the team that fits, the skill set that fits Doug is so important because you can get a lot of the same guys and you're going to have, you know, mush as far as a team is concerned. But if you get the right pieces and that's what we're trying to do is get the right fit, the right temperament, the right skill set that fits, you can't have all five defensive players and think you're going to win. You can't have all five shooters. You've got to have playmakers and defenders.

And that's what we're trying to do. is get a championship fit. And, you know, Troy has done a good job with it. He understands talent. He knows talent. And, you know, he knows what we're looking for as a coaching staff and what it takes to get to that level. We know.

And so that's why, you know, we just don't want to, we want to make sure we dot our eyes and crosses our T's as far as when we make these decisions and, you know, put this team together. And that's, it's exciting. And we go to work excited. And I think our organization excited, I think we sold probably over, I think, in a 10-minute period after we got the first pick, $400,000 worth of ticket. So that's exciting for everybody. And the city of Detroit deserves it. It's a sports city. It's a great proud franchise with three championships there. Ben Wallace gave us good luck the other night, Doug, with being, being at the lottery. He just made the hall of Fame. So a lot of good things are going. So we have a little pep in our step going in every

day and working. Our players are working to get better this summer. We've got two guys on the USA select team. Jeremy Grant just made the Olympic team. So some good things that happen. Now we just got to put it all together and continue to grind and build and develop our young guys toward where these guys are playing tonight. Duane, listen, have a wonderful summer. Always good to catch out. But I look forward to doing so in person. Thanks so much. Are you going to be at Summer League, does?

Yeah, of course I'm going to be at Summer Lake. I mean, that's... Okay, well, I will see you at the Summer Lake. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. Help an Acapella band with their Between Songs banter.

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