The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 07/16/2021 - HOUR 1 - Lillard, Rodgers

Episode Date: July 16, 2021

Damian Lillard will be asking to be tradedWhich teams could Lillard be traded to?What Aaron Rodgers may be looking for from the PackersGuest: J. A. Adande Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening to The Heard podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday from 12 to 3 Eastern, 9 to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and FS1. Find your local station for the herd at Fox Sports Radio.com or stream us live every day on the IHeartRadio app by searching Heard. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. Ah, it is a Friday. How lucky are we? Major breaking news live in Los Angeles, it's the herd.

Wherever you may be, however you may be listening, IHeart Radio, Fox Sports Radio, FS1. I prepared football stories all day today, a little NBA finals, and then 30 minutes before the show. We get major news. It is official, according to Henry S. somebody I trust, true hoops. Damian Lillard, in days to come, will request a trade. Joy Taylor, I love Fridays. When we get, you know, in Fridays, it's known in the PR world as a news dump.

If you have bad news as a company, you dump it late on Friday and the media doesn't cover it. But in our world, it's a news triumph that on a Friday show right before it, we get major breaking news. And here we go with Dame Lillard. This summer has been crazy. It has. This is a big deal. This is league altering news. He is a superstar. He is arguably the best shooter in the NBA in a shooters league. Steph Curry, Dame, that's it. There's no others. All right? He is a star. So I've got a lot of thoughts about this. According to Henry Abbott, Lillard, in days to come, plans to request a trade. Now, first of all, he's earned it. He's been there nine years. I believe stars. LeBron gives the cab seven years.

You can't get him a bona fide number two. You got to go. Portland has never really gotten him a great two. They've got a three to a four in C.J. McCullum. Good player. Very nice player. But they need another star. They couldn't get it for him.

This is also the way this needed to work. Dame is so popular and so committed and so beloved and has been so loyal. He has to initiate the trade. It has to be clear and definitive. I am requesting a trade. And you'll have your meatball fans, your fan boys, your pom-pom waivers won't get it. But this is the way it has to be. Dame has to come out and say, hey, I want a trade.

And he'll take a hit for 48 hours, 72 hours. You know, there's always those resentful fans who don't appreciate great players like Dame. But he has to do this because he's too popular for a GM to trade him. Dame has to lead this. It takes courage. That's what Mello did in Denver. It's what LeBron's done. The star player, it's what Dwight Howard did in Orlando.

The star player has to demand this trait, and he takes the hit for it. Anthony Davis took the hit for it. But in the end, who gives a rip if some fan you'll never meet is unhappy with you on Reddit? Who cares? So Dame has to do this. Now, the second part of this, they are going to have 25 to 30 teams that are interested. It's a Shooter's League. He's unbelievable.

He's totally committed. He plays hard every night. A little bit of a defensive liability. So is Steph Curry. You don't get everything, okay? So now, Portland needs to make a decision because Philadelphia is going to come hard, Boston's going to come hard, the Knicks are going to come hard, Dallas is going to come hard, the Clippers are going to come hard.

I think the Lakers should go after him and trade 80. That's just my opinion. So let's just talk about what Portland can do. So does Portland want to remain viable? Still be a playoff team because it's hard. you know, Portland doesn't have a baseball team. They don't have an NHL team. They don't have an NFL.

You know, they got basketball team. This is what they got. Are you ready to go into the dumper and rebuild for four years? Are you ready? Because all those great Phoenix players you see in the finals, those young guys were in the crapper for several years before Chris Paul got there. Are you ready to go there? That's certainly a viable option.

If you're ready to totally rebuild, and I know this is terrifying, And I would lose sleep if I was a GM. Do you call up Golden State, get both their lottery picks and James Wiseman and Andrew Wiggins? You'd have to take Wiggins for the contracts. So you basically say, we're going to be lousy. But we are building our future. This is a great draft. The top four players in this draft are all going to be all stars.

Jalen Green, Jalen Suggs, Mobley from USC, Cade Cunningham, Oklahoma State. This is a great draft. Your first four guys are all-stars could be more. So do you want to go to Golden State? Give them Dame, Clay, Steph, terrifying. I'd throw up in my mouth. They're going to walk back into your facility, drop 90 between the three of them. It's going to be awful.

It's going to be the most talked about team in the league. It's going to get disgust in your city. It's going to be awful for three years. You're going to be bad. They're going to be great. And they'll probably win a championship. But you're going to get two lottery picks. You're going to get James Wiseman.

who would be a lottery pick, he'd be the first, second or third pick this year. Your future is set. Your future is set, and you get Andrew Wiggins, who for a year, C.J. McCollum, Andrew Wiggins, you got Biggs,

you'll be a, but then you're going to have to move Wiseman, you're probably have to move Wiggins out, and it's a rebuild. You take the Wiggins contract to move it. It's not a long-term thing. So are you ready to do that? So Golden State is an option

if you're just ready to get a money, bunch of kids or the clippers. Now, before you roll your eyes at this, consider the clippers. Paul George and Dame. Oh, come on, Colin. Time out. You're not going to get another guy as good as Dame. You tell me the last time an A-plus got traded for an A-plus. I'm waiting. It doesn't happen. What you could get with Paul George is an A-plus and Dame and an A-minus in Paul. Paul George. By the way, Paul George, for about a five-week stretch in the regular season this year, after the All-Star game, was arguably the best player in the league. You watch them in the playoffs. He is a really, really good player. He's not Dame, but he's great. He's also, I mean,

he averages 21 a game in the NBA. Dame averages 25. He's also a bigger athlete than Dame. He's also a significantly better defensive player. Paul George is a top 10 defensive player in the league. He's long, he's committed, he's strong. He's not Dame, but he's darned. He's darned. good. And the Clippers probably have to throw in another player. And you'd have C.J. McCollum, 23 a game, Paul George, 2021 a game, and Portland's got good bigs. You're a playoff team. And you'll probably get another starter in the deal. You're viable. Or your championship team, doubt it, but you're viable. Or do you want to go to the Golden Stateway? And just give us kids, we're going to be awful for three years. The Warriors are going to be amazing. They're going to be the

talk of the league. We're going to have to not watch, turn the television off. And those are just two of the options. Because remember, if Dame goes to Miami with Jimmy Butler and Pat Riley is on the phone this morning, that changes the trajectory of that franchise. If Dame goes to Boston with Jason Tatum and the Celtics are going to be on the phone this morning. I mean, they'd win the East, right? Jimmy Butler and Dane would win the East.

Jason Tatum and Dane would win the East. or certainly be in the conversation. Luca in Dallas, Mark Cuban, terrified that Luca will not sign long term. Luca Dame, I'm sorry, but that's two of the four most explosive offensive players in the league, right? So this really comes down to what's Portland want to be. Do they want to watch? Because a Golden State has got two lottery picks in a strong draft and they'd give you Wiseman. that's your future.

You got your future big. Two young stars in the draft, a draft full of shooters, guards, playmakers. By the way, Philadelphia is also, Darry is going to call Portland. Now, Philadelphia is a team that is getting discussed a lot. I would be very, very careful if I was Portland on Philadelphia. So what you're hearing, Darry would like to be. Darry would love this deal. Embed and Damien Lillard, you win the East.

You are in the finals. That one I won't even argue. Miami and Boston, I think you could be. Embed and Dame and Tobias Harris, you are in the finals. So Darry is going to try to make that deal. Here's where I'd be very, very reluctant if I'm Portland. So Dame is committed. He plays every night.

he is a great teammate. Ben Simmons is indifferent and arrogant and eloof. He'll never be loved by Portland like Dame. The optics, aesthetics are not good. Dame makes everybody better. Everybody loves him. Totally committed. Loves basketball. Ben Simmons is cool, aloof, indifferent, kind of arrogant. I don't like that. I don't like the optics. The second thing is, if you trade for Ben Simmons, Philadelphia, you can offer you a bunch of long athletes. They've got all sorts of wings that can't shoot. Ben Simmons can't shoot. If you trade with Philadelphia and they start throwing long athletic guys and Thibol and Ben Simmons, don't get me wrong. You will be the best defensive team in the West. But you will have such

a shooting deficit. Let me give an example. So let's say you get Ben Simmons and Thibble, who's a wing, went to the University of Washington, great defensive player and Simmons, great defensive player for Dane. No question. You have gone from an average defensive team below average to excellent. But now C.J. McCollum faces the other team's best defender. C.J. McCollum averages 23 a game. He's not as good as Paul George who averages 20. But Paul George on his teams often faces a very elite defender.

In the playoffs, with Kauai Leonard out, Paul George faced your best defender. In Indianapolis, he faced your best defender. In Oklahoma City, your best wing defender. But if Dame leaves Portland and Ben Simmons came, then C.J. McCollum, a good player, a B-plus player now faces your best 6-6-6- or under defensive player. So C.J. McCollum's efficiency, if you trade with Philadelphia dips, and I get no shooting back. So now in the West, you can't win the West on defense. You've got to have offense in the West. You can win the East on defense. You can win the East on defense. Philadelphia. very good. Milwaukee's in the finals. Milwaukee's got one guy that can shoot. So you can win the East just on deep. I mean, Toronto, very big, very strong, very good defense.

Milwaukee, mostly defense, tough, strong, bullies. You can get to the fight. In the West, you've got to score points. There's just too many good young players. So if you make this trade with Philadelphia, you get Simmons and Thibble. They're long, they're athletic, they're good, good NBA, players, you've got two guys who could be all NBA defense for the next seven years. But now McCollum carries the offensive load. I mean, you take Steph Curry away from the Warriors and Clay Thompson now draws the number one defensive assignment. Clay's efficiency goes down.

So Philadelphia can give you a lot of interesting pieces. I don't know. Golden State gives you the future. the Clippers give you viability today. Don't kid yourself. Paul George, C.J. McCollum, Portland's Biggs, and maybe the Clippers throw in another top bench guy. That's a playoff team.

That's a playoff team. C.J. McCollum averages 23. Paul George, 2021. Nurkich is a really good player when he's healthy. That's a good basketball team, even in the West. So this is league changing. This is league altering. not get A plus for A plus.

You got to get out of that. A lot of these Portland fans, whoa, Paul George, how are you talking about? Paul George is the top 15 player to the league. He may be 15th. Maybe he's the 16th. I mean, he's up there. That's as good as you're going to get. Then you've got to get pieces.

How does he fit? Can I get another bench player or a starter or a draft pick? I don't think the Clippers have much draft capital. They gave it all up to get Kauai and Paul, right? Love days like today. Seriously. If I was doing, I used to do Portland local radio. If I did local radio today, I'd just literally say, all right, cancel all the other shows. Let's go nine hours, phone calls, Damian Lillard.

Very, very exciting on a Friday. Mario Chalmers, remember him? Did you, I remember? Yes, yes. Oh, we have a strong, strong statement on Aaron Rogers. This morning, too, coming up next. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games.

Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined.

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Big story today. Henry Abbott says Damian Lillard very soon will request the trade. And by the way, it's what he should do. I'm a Portland's not close. Chauncey Billups is a rookie head coach. He's not going to elevate the Blazers to. anywhere they haven't already been, if he can even get to where Terry Stott had been. So we don't know.

You can talk yourself into this. Portland's a non-championship team. Again, the very interesting, the most interesting trade partners are the Clippers with Paul George, an A-Minus player for Dame, Golden State, which can give you your future, and Philadelphia. So Philadelphia could say you get Ben Simmons, if you gave me Ben Simmons, Thibble, and Seth Curry. So Seth Curry, I would demand that he can shoot. You've got to give me a shooter in this. Philadelphia can probably give you a little bit of now and the future.

But here's my problem. I don't believe you can build an NBA franchise around Ben Simmons. I don't think he has the personality for it. And Dame does. There's only about 10 guys in this league, I think, have the personality I can build around. Devin Booker looks like he's got the right personality. He's a grown-up. He's engaging.

He can handle the meat. media, teammates like him, he's big and big games. You know, Steph Curry, LeBron James. Go look at the Clippers. Kauai Leonard's a top five player in the league and look at their difficulties because of Kauai's personality. It's not just how good of a player you are. Anthony Davis is a one as a player.

He's not a leader. You can't build around Anthony Davis's personality, semi-committed player, hurt a lot. It's not just that. Dame plays every night. he's totally committed to basketball. He's great at it. He's a great teammate. He travels well, takes the guys out.

The old guys like him. The kids like him. That's, it's Ben Simmons, nobody likes it. Like you can't build around. I always said this about Carmelo Anthony and Westbrook. It's not that they're not great players. They're Hall of Famers. I can't build around their personalities.

Like Carmelo had no self-awareness. Westbrook's best friend, he said, is the ball. It can't be that. Dame's best friend is. is Nurkich and C.J. McCaill, he gets along with everybody. So the Philadelphia is going to get all the talk on this deal, and they've got a lot of interesting pieces. Seth Curry, Ben Simmons, Stuybill, but your A is hopefully Simmons.

I wouldn't want him leading my franchise. I think we always undervalued the quality of a guy and a guy's personality. The NBA is the smallest locker room. You know, baseball, a third of your roster is down. in the bullpen. They're not even in the dugout. In the NFL, as Joey knows, or brother a Hall of Fame player. At halftime, the defensive guys go to the right, the offensive guys go to the left. If they can't stand each other, I mean, literally go to a football practice. The offensive guys down there, the defensive guys are huddling over there. Basketball,

13 dudes, private plane, they're around each other all the time. It just takes, and if your star player is difficult, nonverbal, aloof, it affects everything. That's why Tim Duncan and Brady are so valuable. Like Tim Duncan was perfect. He was committed. He let Pop yell at him. He was very Brady-like. You know, with Duncan, he didn't need to score.

If you told him, hey, the final shot's going to go to Manu. He's totally cool with it. Like, he had a very Brady quality. Is that when you look at most d. The d. Wade, Ron, one. You know, when you look at most dynasties, Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird.

It's not just their games. It's their personalities, their toughness, their courage, they'll take the big shot. They're coachable. They'll listen. They engage other teammates. I mean, Michael was feisty, but there's pictures all over, you know, the internet of him playing cards with the guys on the plane and stakes and wine and golfing with his buddies. And it matters. So Philadelphia is going to get all the talk in this thing.

I'd be very, very cautious if I was Portland with Ben Simmons and his casualty. indifference. It's what I used to always say about Jay Cutler, the quarterback for the Bears. You couldn't deny his talent. Jay Cutler has a huge arm. He was smart. He went to Vanderbilt. He had a huge arm. I don't want to build my franchise around Jay Cutler. And I know Jay. And Jay was talented, but there was an indifference to him, a casualness. I struggle with that. The great teams have a committed player who other players hover around improve around, relate to, connect to, and Simmons doesn't have that. He just doesn't. It's not in his DNA. It's not who he is. Joy with the news.

No, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. Well, hits keep coming for Team USA. Bradley B.L. was placed in health and safety protocols this week and has now been ruled out for the Olympics. Jeremy Grant is also going through protocols, but Greg Popovich is optimistic. He'll be able to return to. to the team and then today Kevin Love decided to withdraw from Team USA so he will not be going to Tokyo. Is that an injury too, Kevin Love? Well, yes, he came to his decision because he's returning from the calf injury and he doesn't feel like he's at peak performance yet. All right, I get that. So he will not be going. So they now have to replace Kevin Love and Bradley Beale.

John Morant. I would love to see John Moran on Team USA. I think John Morant is probably in good shape as well, which seems to be a big issue for Team USA. Devin Booker, Drew Holiday, and Chris Middleton are obviously still playing in the finals, so they're not with the team yet. So they currently have six players, BAM, Kevin Durant, Jemone Green, Zach Levine, Damian Lillard, and Jason Tatum.

They also had to cancel their exhibition game against Australia tonight because of health and safety concerns. And Team Australia has a higher level of rules and protocols for COVID than Team USA has. So Team USA is in Vegas right now, but they're not under the... the, you know, like bubble-like scenario.

Like, they're allowed to have their family there because no families are traveling to Tokyo. They're allowed to move freely throughout the hotel. Right. I don't know everybody's vaccination status, but it's, I mean, it's coming down to the wire for getting the team together, getting them conditioned and ready to play in Tokyo. And now they have two very important pieces out. I mean, every piece is important, but it's Bradley Beale and Kevin Love out.

And they now have to replace them on top of not having Devin Booker, Drew Holiday, and Christmas. Middleton there with the team. So a lot going on for Team USA and a lot to figure out. In the next couple of days, Woj tweeted that Spurs Forward Kelden Johnson is gaining a lot of support because he plays as a member of the USA Select Group and he's apparently well conditioned. So everyone is pushing for him to join the team. But we'll see who they select to replace Kevin Love and Bradley Beal.

So Urban Meyer is getting his first taste of coaching at the NFL level with the Jags. and he's still trying to navigate through all those changes from college football. And Jimmy Johnson, who made a very successful leap from college to the pros, said Urban is having a hard time adjusting, and there's one major difference between the two. He's a little frustrated right now because he spent so little time with the players. He's accustomed to being around the players all the time, and they weren't able to do that because COVID-19 and the situation. COVID definitely played a significant role in this.

they were fined recently for violating some of the off-season protocols. Not related to COVID, but just contact rules because you can't have players there. It's not the same as college. Listen, this has been Pete Carroll was a college guy. He went to the NFL and he has been fined multiple times because of illegal practices. Why? Because in college, Pete could control his environment in the NFL. You can't.

Jim Harbaugh, college guy NFL. Why did he struggle in the NFL? He struggled with his GM, Trent Balke. because he wanted players and Trent Balke, wouldn't give him control. Nick Saban couldn't get Drew Breez to pass his physical in Miami. He said, hell with this, I'm going to go to college. When you look at college guys who have had great success, it's the control thing. Yeah.

And Harbaugh struggled with not control on the personnel. Pete Carroll struggled with not having enough practices. He's been fine multiple times. Nick Saban struggled with the medical staff, not giving him what he want, the okay for Drew Bree. So this is a very real thing. and I think you and I have said this before. We don't doubt that Urban can coach

or knows personnel. That's not it. I mean, he's going to have, they had a very good draft. They're going to be fine in the drafting thing, and he's a super smart guy. It's a psychology. You can't control the players. You can't control practice. You don't have an AD you can run over. You're going to have multiple players over time making more than you.

Yeah. And these are grown men. So this is the struggle that we kind of predicted. Well, yeah, because in college, you can have practices that aren't mandatory, but you know you better be there. They're not mandatory. The NCAA has regulations on that too,

but you're going to be there in college. If it's non-mandatory practices or camps in the pros, you don't have to go and you're not going. And these are professionals. So they can argue, like, coach, I ain't going to be there, but I'm going to be working out all week. I'm just not, I'm on vacation with my family.

It's off season. I'm chilling here with my kids. I'm going to work out here. The team trainer has sent me the workout. I'm doing that here with my trainer. I'll see you at training camp. There's nothing he can do. And you can't even get mad because he's going to get mad.

Like, I'm going to be in better shape than whatever practice you're going to put me through. That's right. So it's a whole difference. What it is, it's a different business. It's the same sport, but it's a different business. And the level of college kids, you know, learning how to, you know, become adults and dealing with, you know, girlfriends and all these different things as you're growing up to then becoming a professional, well, you don't have to ask permission to do things.

Like, this is my job. This is how this works. You have this role and I have this role. And it's not even necessarily the money thing. You're an adult. Yeah, it's not the money thing. You have to speak to people differently. They have children.

They have wives. They have mortgages. It's a different world. So the Cowboys finally signed DAC to a long-term extension earlier this offseason. It took over two years to get the deal done. It felt like we talked about it for about 15. And Stephen Jones was asked about his biggest regret as an executive in Dallas, and he admitted he made a mistake waiting so long to lock DAC in.

He said probably would have signed DAC the first time around and would have been better for everybody. Well, it's hard. The Rams signed Jared Gough and they regretted it. They signed him early. And the Eagles signed went early and they ended up regretting it. Kansas City signs Mahalms and they're happy they did it. This is not always as easy as it sounds. like, yes, you get a better deal as a team signing early, but you could do a Rams thing where

like a year into it, you're like, oh, God. But I don't know. I think it's a risk, but they got out of it. Like, Jared Goff is not there anymore. No, but they had to give up two more first round pick. Sure, but I mean, that's the risk you take. So you either risk that or you risk a situation like this. Like there's a cost benefit to every.

decision. I think in this situation, not unlike Carson Wentz, but maybe you could argue with the golf contracts, but I think with Dak, it was very obvious they weren't going to move off of him. Like, Dak was going to be there. He felt like the future of Dallas. So what was it exactly that you were waiting for? The one thing where I think Dallas made a big mistake is that the Zieg deal, Zeek had two years left, and they signed the running back early, which I would never do, two years early, and didn't sign DAC early. So to me, if you'd have signed Dak and not Zeke

and made Dak whose personality is more about, it's more of a guy. I can literally... And he's the quarterback. Right. So to me, the bigger mistake was signing Zeke two years early. He's never been the same player.

And the messaging was Zeke's the star of the franchise. Yeah. He does it. First of all, running backs can't be. Secondly, I don't think Zeke's personality

is star of the franchise. I think Dak's personality is perfect for Star of the franchise. He's a grown-up, the intangibles. He's a leader. I mean, that's what even Dan Mullen says. At Florida, or at Mississippi State, I didn't love him as a thrower. God, I loved him as the face of my college football team.

Yeah, I agree. That was probably the bigger mistake, signing Zeke first. All right, good stuff today and a Friday. A lot of energy here. Joy with the News. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Heard Live News. So I thought today, it's really interesting. I got a bunch of questions.

I want to ask my next guest, J. A. Donday, who is the director of sports journalism at Northwestern's Medill School of Journalism. It's probably the best school of journalism in America. Well, it is. In Chicago, north side of Chicago. So let's bring in J.A. Adande, brought to you by Mercedes-Benz the best or nothing.

So first of all, you cover the NBA. You cover Jordan for the Chicago Sun-Times, Kobe for the L.A. time. So I want to start with an NBA question because you have covered all these trade rumors forever. And listen, it's great for a guy like me. I, for me, I could go nine days on this, JA. But you know in the NBA, you never get an A-plus for an A-plus.

So when you hear Dame in Portland, and as somebody who leads, it's so much speculation, are you comfortable as the director of sports journalism when guys like me do a bunch of speculating on stories like this? Well, that's your job, right, Colin? So I'm not going to get mad at you for doing your job. And that's one of the things that's great about the NBA is it provides so much material. What else you're going to talk about in the middle of July, right?

But NBA transactions has been a tremendous boon for the sports talk industry. The NBA has really taken over July not just this year because the finals happen to be in July, but most years because of the transactions and the free agency and trade speculation. So July has become a pivotal month for the NBA. And it's made what had been a very, dry month in the sports talk business. Very interesting. But the key with this, Colin, is that we don't have a lot of information because it would be helpful to, as we start speculating about trades, if we had a true sense of what Damien Lillard wants. We know he wants to be on a championship

contender, but does he want to be the man on that contender? Does he want to be in a big market? Money is out the table because this would be a trade and not a pre-agency signing. But, you know, what are the things that he's looking for? What do the, Portland Trailblazers want if they're going to make the decision to trade him. What are they looking for in return? What are they prioritizing? So in the absence of all that information, it really gets difficult to talk about this. You know, it's interesting. One of the things I just said, I would be very reticent to trade for Ben Simmons because I don't think he has the personality of a franchise guy. He reminds me a Jay Cutler, the Bears quarterback.

A little aloof, a little disinterested, a little indifferent. And I do believe, So you covered Kobe and Michael in their prime. Those are franchise personalities. Forget their games. On a daily basis, you saw how Michael dealt with the press. Kobe dealt with the press. Dames similarly, good day, bad day deals with the press. Ben Simmons hides from shots and hides from the press.

I want you to talk a little bit about that when you covered Kobe and you covered Michael. What the fans don't see, they just see the games. but what a true franchise player's personality is needed to be the man? It is an important component of that. And as interesting, as I heard you talk about Ben Simmons's shortcomings and fulfilling the star role, and you talked about franchise leadership, doesn't part of that then go to Joel Embed and for not setting a tone, for not setting an example necessarily for Ben Simmons?

And I'm not saying Joel is negligent or derelict in handling. some of those aspects. I mean, I think he is a good face of that franchise and he takes on a lot of that duty. But part of that would be also making sure that the people, your co-stars in the case of Ben Simmons, are also in line with you and setting a message

that, you know, we're not going to tolerate hiding and not showing up and not accounting for your shortcomings. So that would be a concern if we bring it back to Lillard. Am I going to a guy who is not setting that tone for the franchise? Which makes it interesting then.

you're going to bring in Golden State, and I think there's a lot of reasons, fit reasons in particular, why Golden State would not make sense for him. But one thing would be that the culture that Steph Curry has established there and that he holds himself accountable to is really one of the best cultures in the NBA. So when you were in Los Angeles, because you've been doing this now for about four or five years, if I recall, were you JA in Los Angeles when Chris Paul was with the Clippers? Absolutely. I was there from the moment he got to the Clippers and his,

whole wrong with clippers. So I want to talk about that because as you know then, I didn't live in Los Angeles at the time, but so often because Blake was funnier and a bigger personality, D'Andre Jordan was loose, light, but Chris was the bad guy. If they failed, Chris was the bad guy. Chris was difficult. And he was. Doc Rivers told me. He was hard to coach. That's why I kind of, I have a soft spot for people with high standards who can occasionally be difficult. And he also changed the culture of that team, Colin. I mean, the best stretch in Clipperary History, yes, they made the conference finals for the first time this year. But the most consistent winning that they've ever done, making the playoffs every year, winning playoff series, maybe not multiple series, but winning playoffs each year happened with Chris Paul. You know, they didn't make the playoffs as transformative as Blake Griffin was for that franchise. They didn't make the playoffs when he was the best player. They bring in Chris Paul. All of a sudden, they're a consistent, you know, Western conference.

contender throughout the duration of Chris Paul's time there. So he had that impact. He changed the expectations and he changed the standards for that team. By the way, before we go, I want to ask you about name image likeness. You are on a college campus, a college campus that has a very good college football program and to me a top five, top six college football coach in Pat Fitzgerald. Your facilities at Northwestern now are top. I just drove past him about a month ago in Chicago. They're stunning. It's a great program. It puts guys all over the NFL. It's now name image likeness. Chicago's a big city. These kids are going to have marketing opportunities. And there's an uneasiness often unspoken from a lot of coaches. Oh, boy. Are you kind of

sensing that as somebody that's on a college campus with a legitimate top 20 college football program? Is Pat all in or is there an uneasiness to the next 12 months? Well, they've set out the university and the athletic department said they're in favor of this and they think it'll be beneficial. I actually think it's a hindrance, Northwestern being just outside of Chicago in the city of Evanston because there's more competition. I think you'd be better off actually in a true college town where the local college teams are the dominant in the market. I mean, here you've got to compete. If you're trying to get endorsement opportunities, you've got to get to the back of the, the line because there's a lot of great, you know, high profile professional teams here. But,

uh, yeah, I think the, the opportunity is to come here and, uh, you know, you can, you can meet people for sure. You, you can meet business leaders and you can meet high profile people that are here. And now, guess what? Now you can't enter into business agreements with them. It's not just for down the road. But, uh, you know, it's tricky. And there's still a lot to be sorted out. And Colin, did you see what the, I'd say President Mark Emmert said that it might be time to basically take a step back for the NCAA and assess what they're doing? And if you think about it, what does the NCAA do well?

They run the NCAA tournament. Everyone wants the NCAA basketball tournament. It would help if we had like equality between the men's and women's basketball tournaments. But the men's tournament, no one complains about what they do. So maybe they should just focus on that and get out of the policing business to try to keep money out of kids. No, it's really interesting. They've never been good at policing anyway. The only way they ever find out bad stuff happens is if the media reports it,

and then they chase the story that the Chicago Tribune or whatever covered. J.A. Adonde, Director, Sports Journalism, Northwestern, Madill School of Journalism. I would not qualify for that now or when I was 18 out of high school. Jay, great seeing you. Great to see you, Colin. All sorts of stuff today. A story about Tom Brady. I got this Aaron Rogers thing I got to get to.

Be sure to catch live editions of the. heard weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. Hey, I'm John Middlecough, and I host the three and out podcast. Do you like football? Do you like the NFL? Do you like the NFL? Do you like the NFL draft? Quarterbacks, coaches. Well, I talk about it all on the show. I used to work for Andy Reid as a scout. Now I give you my unfiltered and raw opinions on everything that goes on the NFL.

And you know we're talking college football because of how important the draft is year round. Listen to the three and out podcast with me, John Middlecough, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the

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Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment,

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who now have covered Dancing with the Stars, traitors, and we're gearing up for the season finale of Survivor. So yeah, now we're experts. I know we annoyed a lot of our listeners by our severe lack of survivor knowledge.

That is the point of the show. I'm just going to remind you. I have watched some Survivor. I obviously haven't watched enough. Did people not like it? Yeah. Yeah. We'll be recapping the big conclusion

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on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And here's Heather with the weather. Well, it's beautiful out there, sunny and 75, almost a little chilly in the shade. Now, let's get a read on the inside of your car. It is hot. You've only been parked a short time, and it's already 99 degrees in there. Let's not leave children in the back seat while running errands. It only takes a few minutes for their body temperatures to rise, and that could be fatal.

Cars get hot, fast, and can be deadly. Never leave a child in a car. A message from Nitsay and the Ad Council. Escape QuickBooks, QuickSand with NetSuite by Oracle, the number one financial system, one-of-a-kind financing. NetSuite by Oracle, get control and visibility over your e-commerce, HR, and financials in one spot. NetSuite.com slash heard. So this is a story. Adam Schaefter and Peter King now share the same sentiment.

They have reached the same conclusion. So Peter King about a month ago talked about this very thing on his podcast. And now Adam Schaefter publicly saying, in my opinion, I don't think we'll see Aaron Roger show up in Green Bay with three years left on the contract as it currently stands. There has to be, I think, some sort of stipend. that makes it clear the Packers will trade him after the season. Now, presumably, if you're a Packer fan, Green Bay would still have leverage. They would just say, okay, in a year we're trading him, make the offers.

That's what David Letterman did when he left NBC. Make offers networks. CBS made the best offer. And it was a big long runway. Letterman had a long time. Make your offers. Sit here in my beach house, make the offers. So Green Bay would still have leverage, okay, as long as 8.

Aaron's healthy at the end of the year. And Aaron would see light at the end of the tunnel. Would not be as bitter. Now, I think this is incredibly strange, and I think it would torpedo the season. So Tom Brady told Howard Stern, remember they did that big long interview? He told him, I knew I was leaving. But that was a thought. That was just a thought.

If you know you're leaving your company and keep it to yourself, it's not disruptive. but a stipulation is probably a contract. That's different. A thought and something on paper is different. First of all, it's official. It would be public. It would leak in two minutes. It would be discussed every week.

I think it would essentially torpedo the season. And when you know you're leaving a place and Brady said, I knew I was leaving, remember how testy Tom got his last year in New England? First time I ever saw him, like, yell. repeatedly kind of at teammates. Like he'll yell occasion. Like, you know, remember the Chicago game Thursday night with his team? But I mean, literally discouraged generally on more than one occasion with his teammates.

He got testy. Like Tom knew he was leaving. And Tom was being very human. When you know you're out the door, there's a big difference between, you know, it doesn't happen until it happens, right? There's not a team until there's a team. And so I think this would be so weird. also Aaron no longer trusts the Packer front office so he'd want it on paper.

You're not going to let it hang out there. Well, Green Bay tends to be pretty protective of the brand and a little rigid. So they may resent that they're forced to sign a deal. And Aaron doesn't trust them so he would resent it if there isn't a deal. So this is a mess. And I've said before, I would flush this season down the toilet if they didn't play. in the NFC North, where Detroit's awful, maybe the worst team in the league, certainly in a discussion.

Chicago is going to be starting a rookie quarterback, so they're not a viable Super Bowl contender. Minnesota, I love their coach, and there's a lot of their roster I like. We don't think Kirk Cousins in big spots can measure up with Tom and Aaron and Russell and Patrick and Josh Allen. Even the DAC and the, I just don't think he's that guy. So it's a mess. So Peter King and Adam Schaefter, incredibly well-tied-in guys, have reached the same conclusion. There's going to have to be a stipulation made.

And I believe Aaron would want it in writing because he doesn't trust him. And I don't think a rigid franchise wants to put anything in writing and be told you have to do something. This is just not going to be a good year for the Packers. It feels like the last year of the kids in high school. and you know you're getting a divorce after they get out of the house and you're just trying to make it work until then. That's a perfect way to put it. We're just trying to make it work for a year.

Yeah. Does that sound like a Super Bowl team? Like just keep it together until they get to college and then we'll break it to them when they're adults. Let's just over. Green Bay and Aaron, just keep it together for a year. And then we'll, that's just not, that's not a Super Bowl team. I don't love it.

Spotlight comfort. Save big in your water bill. Go tankless with Navian. Tankless Maidsimble.com. Tankless made symbol.com get local rebates to. There's a Tom Brady story out. There's an Urban Meyer story out. The big story this morning is Henry Abbott is reporting.

Dame will in soon enough time, we don't know, a couple weeks, whatever, demand a trade. Hour two. Next. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David. David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day

and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get

your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast, Superhuman, documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits. basketball and college football journey or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford Show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. On the Look Back at a podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it.

With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.

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