The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 07/21/2021 - HOUR 1 - Giannis, Bucks

Episode Date: July 21, 2021

Giannis is a special player who is only getting betterThe Bucks earned their ChampionshipGuest: Nick Wright Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Look Back at it podcast. For 1979, that was a big moment for me.

84 was big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. It was a wild year.

I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show.

This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Thanks for listening to The Heard podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday from 12 to 3 Eastern, 9 to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and FS1. Find your local station for the herd at Fox Sports Radio.com or stream us live every day on the iHeart Radio app by searching Heard.

You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. Oh, here we go on a glorious Wednesday. Live in Los Angeles, it's the herd. Wherever you may be and however you may be listening. We're on IHeart Radio, Fox Sports Radio, and FS1, six games, five of which were completely utterly captivating, astonishingly close, two very good teams, one a little less flawed, bigger and stronger than the other, and Joy Taylor is joining me. The herd brought to you by Jersey Mike's subs,

B.S. Up Above. Quite a series we watched. Amazing. It was a really, really fun series. I don't know how you watched that and not enjoy it. I mean, my team wasn't in it. I loved every second of it. Yeah, I was the same way. You know, they call him the Greek freak,

and he is unique. There are those handful of players. Not all great superstars are like this. There's been a handful. First time I saw a player like Janus was wilt. He wore a headband. He was just more athletic than everybody in the 70s than it was Dr. Jay. I mean, as good as Kobe was, I'd seen it before.

It was called MJ. But Janus is absolutely unique, long and agile. He'll run guards down, beat him down the floor, the Greek freak. But, you know, there's something else about him. He just plays harder than everybody else. else. He plays with this optimistic joy. There's no drama with him. He's like an eight-year-old playing basketball for the first time. You want to tell him, hey, slow down. There's four quarters here. Even the greatest players coast at times take possessions off, not Janus. And a lot of

the great current players have something about their game, which appears to be an obstacle. KD and AD can't stay healthy. Kauai is nonverbal, sometimes just disappears. Kyrie's got an erratic personality. Hardin doesn't give you much on the defensive end, and LeBron, frankly, has been great, but he's old. Yonnes has one hole. It's that free throw thing.

And last night, he was Larry Bird. He's 26 and only getting better. Here's something else I like about Janus. And I like new stuff, but I like old school too. He only follows seven people on Twitter. His mother, his three brothers, his fiance, and this is funny, Elon Musk, plus Kobe. Yonis is an old soul at 26. He's not brand obsessed.

He's not Twitter obsessed. He leaves politics to everybody else. He's not part of the giant American people. basketball machine. He feels like an outsider. And for all his utterly amazing physical gifts, there are two other things, and I'm not sure anybody other than his parents get credit for them. He's humble and he's grateful. He's truly different. It's about family. It's about loyalty. It's about trustworthiness. It's about Milwaukee. When's the last time we said that in the NBA? It's all about Milwaukee. I like Janice. I never really thought he was a face of the league. He just didn't want

to be. He didn't seem to interest him. But in sort of a backdoor way, a unique way, not the American basketball machine way, he is now the face of the league. He offers things. I hear Well, you know, it'd be better if he played in New York or L.A. I've got to tell you, I think it would be fun to play with Yonis. He doesn't need to take the final shot. You don't, if you play with Yonis have to be the rim protector, that's hard work. He'll do that. You don't have to guard the best guy.

No, he'll do that. He's not going to get hurt in the middle of the season, and you have to carry the team for six weeks while he's out. He seemingly never gets hurt. He's coachable. He's likable. He values stuff that my entire life has worked in every business I've been in. Work hard. There's a little American dream, not to be corny, but there's a little American dream to Janus. If you come to America and you've got talent and you work really, really hard, you'll fail. Initially, you don't have the connections perhaps of somebody. born here and then you'll fail again and you may fail again but if you're optimistic and you persevere and you're coachable and you're trustable and you care about the things that truly matter America's a great place and this morning and I've never said this before in the NBA

there's no place like Milwaukee here's Janus just believe when what you're doing, keep working. You know, don't let nobody tell you what you can't be or what you cannot do. You know, people told me I can't make free throws. I made my free throws tonight. And I'm a freaking champion. I made them not supposed to make it. You know, but I'm joking.

Actually, I'm not, but I just believe, man. I hope I give people around the world from Africa, from Europe, give them hope, you know, that it can be done. He can be done. I like that message. Now, the question this morning is it Janice's league? Is he the best player? Well, yes, this morning, he's driving the car.

Everybody, including Laurent, is in the back seat. Is he the best player? Well, I've been watching this league for 40 years. He is the most physically dominating. The greatest player in the NBA, and it's something you usually hold for about, seven to ten years. The truly great players in this league, they have a style or a play, and when you watch it, you think, oh, nobody else could do that. The first player I really saw

it with was Dr. Jay. Dr. Jay had enormous hands. He had a very free-flowing game. It was very fluid. And Dr. Jay, we'll show you an old piece of tape, would come down the floor. And he would do things that I'd never seen even great players do. He would swoop under the basket. He was the first player that drew me to the NBA. I'd never seen baseball players or football players. I'd never seen soccer players. I've never really seen an athlete do stuff like that. I remember as a kid trying to palm the ball for years and I couldn't. Dr. Jay was the kind of player that you would watch him play and then you would go outside. I did to my basket and I would try to do Dr. J stuff, and the ball would come out of my hands and roll into the yard.

And then after that, there was Michael Jordan. Michael Jordan had a handful of moves. Remember when he switched hands? Not even Dr. J. did that. Michael Jordan had a series of plays. Not many. We know he's the greatest ever, right? But a series of plays, you can just say the switch hands play.

And it's Michael Jordan. There's nobody else like that. There's other players who have done things. Magic Johnson, Showtime Lakers, when he would hold the ball in one hand on the fast break and pass. Shack the Alleyoop. I always thought that was so fitting for Shaquille O'Neal. Not only the Alleyoop, because a lot of Biggs can do that.

But you not only got the dunk, but you got his personality all in three seconds. That is the play of Shaq's career. It sums up him and his dominating game. I'd never seen anybody do that. By the way, I was sitting 12 feet behind the basket. Steph Curry taking 32 shots. LeBron James running down the floor. Remember, LeBron is a power forward for almost all of my life.

Power forwards rebounded, and that was about it. They did not chase down guards. 94 feet and block the ball. Not every star has this. Dr. Jay had it. Shack had it. Magic had it. Michael had it.

LeBron has it. And when I think of Janus, there are two plays in this series. He was clearly the best player, but two iconic plays that I think right now nobody else could do. The first is this block. To go from defending the ball hands.

handler to the block and this alleyup running past guards on the floor, this is a seven-footer. This was, in our eyes initially, a center. These are the kind of physically game-changing, unique iconic plays that the all-time physical greats have. And I do believe Janus is in that category. Nobody can quite physically do what he can do today. Does that qualify you as the best player? It qualifies you as the most physically unique and dominating player.

And I think it needs to be said this morning. For the last 15 years, it always felt like LeBron had another gear he can shift to. This morning, I don't think he can shift to those two gears. Other thoughts, Nick Wright joined us as well. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd. Weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's

superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media.

Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told,

and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross

double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jette. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it.

Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack, so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now, so. Thank you for finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people.

Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Trip Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase

that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross. Because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth. Are you a good person because you're afraid?

Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway.

Open your free, Our Heart Radio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. With Marcus by Goldman Sachs, you get a personal loan with a fixed rate and no fees ever. Go to Marcus.com. Marcus.com to learn more about their no fee personal loans. Great to have you in today. for Milwaukee. How about those fans in Milwaukee outside? We saw it in Toronto a couple years ago.

Jurassic Park. It's just so fantastic. It's so fun to watch. It's so great. You know, everybody always complains about young people. I get tired of it. That's a bunch of young people, because I can't stand for five hours, okay? And I watch those parks in Toronto, and I watch it in Milwaukee, and I'm like, God love 20-year-old fans. They're just fantastic. Now, sometimes they do inappropriate stuff and have too many bud lights, or old Milwaukee's, whatever, but it's just so gloriously fun. So it would be strange and unexpected if a meteor hit your house. That would be strange. It would not be strange if you got sunburnt because you fell asleep August 15th in a deck chair with no SP 30 on. You would get, that would not be strange. That's what happened. I'm hearing a lot of

this this morning. Milwaukee got some strange breaks. Everybody was hurt. No, that stuff, that's what happens to Kyrie and KD and K. And Kauai. I heard this, Brooklyn, I mean, if it wasn't the fact that blankety blank got hurt for Brooklyn, yeah, but they always do. KD.'s always hurt, and Kyrie's always hurt, and Hardin came in out of shape, and they played eight total games. What happened to Brooklyn was not strange. That's who. they were all year, never healthy. Well, I mean, Ben Simmons and Embed disintegrated. That's who Ben Simmons is. He's not the meteor. He's the sunburn. He disintegrates. He doesn't communicate. He doesn't work on his shot. I mean, one of the reasons I don't have the Clippers winning next year.

I don't trust Kauai's health or personality. You do get credit for being big, strong, and healthy and you do get docked for getting hurt a lot, A.D and KD. Listen, Milwaukee's not a Picasso. I joke with Joy the other morning off the air. They can literally outplay you for a half and be up by eight. I mean, Drew Holiday has nights like last night he can't shoot. Chris Middleton's hot and cold. Yonnes and his free throws.

You know, they have awful quarters last night in the second quarter where they look like a bottom five team in the league. They're not a Picasso, but they're a champion. And by the way, they didn't get every break. Janice got hurt. They lost a starting guard right before the playoffs, Dante DiVincenzo. He averaged double digits. They frankly got a weird playoff run.

So they had to open with the heat who beat them last year. You think, oh, they'd be in their head. Then they played the favored nets. And then they played a team in Atlanta that totally playing with house money. And then they played a fast finesse team in Phoenix. which ran through the West and swept Denver. So, like, it was a weird playoff team of small teams and quick teams and teams with nothing to lose and teams with stars and a team that beat you last year and they lost on Devonzo and Yannis got hurt. And the bottom line is Milwaukee earned this thing.

They stayed healthy. There was no drama. They remained coachable. You do get value. I picked Milwaukee to win two months ago. Joy is my witness. two reasons why, number one, there'll be no pressure because we've dismissed them. And number two is none of their guys get hurt.

And in a condensed season, we were watching everybody get hurt. And I thought, well, then B, it'll probably get hurt, and AD will probably get hurt, and Kowal probably get hurt. And then even Donovan Mitchell got hurt and Jamal Murray got hurt. And pretty soon you looked up in Milwaukee wasn't hurt. Because of the hard work and effort to Janus, when he did get hurt, his body miraculously rebounded in 48 hours. So I don't want to hear about Brooklyn.

I had to live all year with Brooklyn talk. Oh, if Brooklyn was healthy, they're not. That's not who they are. The whole season, they played eight games together. Kyrie wasn't healthy in college. He wasn't healthy in Cleveland. He wasn't healthy in Boston. He wasn't healthy in Brooklyn.

That's who he is. Hardin, a little bit of a vagabond, came in out of shape. And KD, as much as I like him, was coming off a major. your injury. You had to bake in. He probably wouldn't play every game this year. Joy Taylor with the news. No, no, no, no.

Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. Well, there were a lot of good storylines in this NBA finals. A lot of characters you could root for. Monty Williams being one of them, and he didn't get the result.

He wanted for his son's team in the finals, but in true Monty fashion, he proved with a class act, He is after the game six loss. He made sure to stop by the Bucs locker room during their celebration and personally congratulate them on their championship. I just want to come and congratulate you guys

as a man and coach. You guys are gurgles and I'm thankful for the experience. You guys made me a better coach. You made us a better team. Congratulations. Wouldn't it be great? Wouldn't it be great if our politics were like this? Oh, you mean like adults?

measured and with class and dignity. What is that? Years ago, when I was doing this sports radio thing, a political station came to me and said, would you ever consider politics? I said, everybody's angry. Like I said, in sports, there's winners and there's losers, and there's a way to act when you win and a way to act when you lose. In America, today, you lose an election.

Oh, I mean, can't be. Cheaters. Both sides, by the way, over the last 15 years. It's like, sports so often, does. does it right? Like Phoenix lost and did it right. Well, I mean, why do you put kids in sports when they're younger, even if they're not the best athlete? For a little exercise, sure. But sports teaches you certain values that you use throughout your life, like hard work pays off. If you practice really hard, you will play better. If you work on a specific skill, you will get better at it.

If you lose, that's okay. Sometimes you're going to lose in life. How do you handle those losses? Do you kick and scream and throw a fit and call the other team cheaters? Or do you get up and dust yourself off and work harder? Like there's values that you can learn in sports. Moni is, I mean, they were raving about him on the broadcast last night, rightfully so. He's just one of those guys who has put in the work throughout his career. He's made incredible relationships. And he's also a great coach.

Like being a good person has an extreme value, obviously, but he's also a great coach. What he's done with the Sons is remarkable. He's been there for two seasons. The year before he got there, the team's record was 19 and 63. He improved them to 34 and 39 and just missed the playoffs going 8 and 0 in the bubble. And this year they're in the finals in game 6. In the last two years, I've been disappointed on both sides of the political aisle with so many adults. It's remarkable how often are young kids in sports in crisis act with such refinement and class?

Like in America the last two years, adults are embarrassing. And I continue to go to these Super Bowls and March Madness and our basketball players and our football players. And I'm just like, thank God we have sports, this fabric where you have to give and be coachable and admit defeat. And you've got to work with people from different places in the world. And you fail all the time. You fail. And when you fail, you can't make excuses. that's not what you do in a team.

It's like, you know, there's a reason, for years and years I watched television in America. I can never understand why everybody didn't watch sports. Everything was scripted. So you'd watch television. Everything's scripted. And I can remember when I was young, like a teenager, thinking, it's the only thing you watch. You have no idea how it's going to turn out. And by the way, there's not a set time it's going to end.

It could go into extra innings. It can go into overtime. Now, 30 years later, from when I thought that, the only one, thing keeping the lights on on broadcast television is sports. We finally figured out this is what it's all about. And Hollywood couldn't script these endings because you wouldn't believe it. You wouldn't believe that Janus who failed and failed and failed. Had so many critics, myself included and like they haven't arrived yet. Why are they contenders? They haven't won anything yet. If you did it. He has a hole in his game and he goes out and makes his free throws like that last night.

It's like if we scripted that, no one would believe. Yeah, if you wrote a movie and said, and then finally, Janice wins the championship, and he hits all his free throws. He goes 17 for 19. You'd be like, now that's too hokey. We like the script, but that part. Yeah, but like obviously they lose. Yeah, they, and he's not going to hit all his free throws.

I mean, it was like, there was a Hoosiers quality to it. It was like perfect. It really was. Well, Chris Paul, who was a huge factor for the Sons this year, couldn't get his team across the finish line. Obviously, the Sons lost of the Bucks in six last night, and he is already thinking about how he can get to the finals in the future. Sure.

Says this or whatnot, but it's the same mentality. Get back to work. You know what I mean? I ain't retiring. That's what you're asking. That's out. So, you know, back to work. Right now, you're just trying to figure out what you could have did more.

You know, it's tough. Great group of guys. Hell of a season. This one going to hurt for a while. He played well last night. He played well last night. Had a couple games. I'm sure he wishes he could get back.

throughout this series. He averaged 19.2 points, 3.5 rebounds and 8.6 assists per game in the playoffs. They have to get bigger. They were dominated on the glass. They need a 610 body. They need a Bobby Portis or a Brooke Lopez. They need to get bigger. You know, the funny thing about overcorrecting or going from one spectrum to the other, and we talk about this a lot in a lot of aspects in sports and in life. generally there will come a team or there will come a situation that just kind of corrects everything. Like, yes, three-point shooting is incredible and that's analytics and we've leaned into it. And a lot of people have complained about the finesse and the fouls. And then here comes the bucks with all these big bodies and all these great defenders and teams have built their teams with no defense whatsoever, like not relying on defense at all.

Well, Brooklyn, no rim defender. Kyrie Harden suboptimal defenders. I wouldn't classify the Suns as a team that doesn't play defense. I think everyone might not be a great defender, but everyone on the Suns tries to defend. I don't think of them as a team that doesn't defend.

But the physicality of the Bucks just overwhelmed them. So Paul has a $44.2 million player option for next season. August 1st is a deadline. So he would become a free agent if he declines this player option. And Magic Johnson had a few thoughts. He said if Chris Paul opts out of his

contract with the sons. His first call should be from his best friend, LeBron, James, and the Lakers. A big three with LeBron, Chris, and A.D. will equal a NBA championship. I don't know about that. It would be an okay fit. I would stay in Phoenix. But, I mean, Chris Paul, LeBron and A.D. feels a little like Drew Holliday, Middleton, and Janus. And by the way, AD does match up well with Yonis. So of the teams next year, if Milwaukee comes back, stays healthy and gets to the finals, the one Western team you'd look at and go, they'd have a shot is the Lakers because of AD. So the saga between Aaron Rogers and the Packers will continue for a little while longer

as we wait to see if he will show up to training camp next week. In the meantime, a Wisconsin bar called the Fat Seagull is having a little fun with the drama. They posted a picture of their newest beer and it's called Cry Baby 12. I don't think that the Bucks winning the championship and especially the way that they did with Janice saying he wants to. to stay in Milwaukee and win a championship there. His comments about going to a super team. It does make Aaron look a little needy.

It's not great timing. It's not great for Aaron. Not great timing. You look like you have the least manipulative superstar in America and the most manipulative superstar in America in the same sports fan group. And Janus is like the most likable guy, outwardly humble, amazing story. Anti-Hollywood. I'm not on Aaron Rogers' side of this.

I don't think that the situations are the same at all. Like, let's not disregard while what the Bucks did was incredible. They weren't this team last year. There's a reason they won the championship this year, outside of Janus being otherworldly incredible. Drew Holiday and PJ Tucker were massive for them this year. Yeah, Holiday changed the series. I mean, Bobby Portis, like they made moves to bring in guys that contributed significantly.

The situations aren't the same, but fan bases aren't going to pay attention to that. They just won a championship. No, it is not lost on me the juxtaposition of Janus's humility and Aaron's neediness. Not very timing. That's a good point. Joy with the News. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Heard Lie News.

Well, that was fun. That was a great series. Six games, five were absolutely fantastic. My buddy, Nick Wright, joining us now, sponsored by Mercedes-Benz, the best or nothing. So I said this morning and last night, he is drawing. driving the car, everybody, including LeBron, is in the back seat. I do think he is, you know, face of the league, I don't know, but it is kind of his league, right, this morning? It's not kind of.

Listen, if we're going to be fair about it, and listen, folks have accused me of having an agenda. I don't know what has ever given anyone the idea that I have an agenda. I'm just an arbiter of truth. And if we're being fair and agenda free, Janus is the best player in the league right now. Now, can that be taken back from him? Yes. Do I think next year, early finals prediction, Bucks Lakers, crown hanging over center court, like a WVE match, ladder match, where the belt hangs above it. That'll be great. It'll be amazing to see. But Janus, when at 24 you win league MVP, at 25 you win league MVP and defensive player of the year, and at 26, you go toe to toe

with Kevin Durant in a game seven in his building and outplay him in that game, score the game tying shot on him in overtime, and then you go to the finals, and 40 and 13 was your third best game of the finals. Think about Janus's six games in the finals. 20 and 17, then a 40 and 13 in a loss, then 40 and 10 in a win, then the block, then the alley-oop, then 50 piece to win the championship, which has only been done by Bob Petit 60 years ago. Yeah.

Like, you get to be the best player in the league. That's what you get, and we'll see if someone can take it back from him next year. Well, Emmanuel Ocho brought this up. At 26, Jordan had six all-stars, an MVP in no titles. LeBron was a seven-time all-star, two-time MVP and no titles, and Janus has five all-stars, two MVPs, and a finals MVP in. and a finals. So when you look at their ages,

Janus, we just lost Nick Wright. For a second, we'll try to get him back. Emmanuel brought this up last night, and it is interesting. I didn't know this. That, you know, it's hard. There's confirmation bias, and sometimes you kind of forget in the moment.

You know, you look back at Jordan, and you just think he walked into the league and dominated, and Michael did not dominate. He went through a couple of coaches. He had Stan Albrook. He had Doug Collins. Then he got... And his team was a disaster.

It was. It was a bunch of shooters. Quindaley and Orlando Woolridge. So you forget that Michael, similarly to Janus, had a long journey. You forget that LeBron for seven years in Cleveland, they couldn't get him an All-Star, had a long journey. So we talk about this all the time. Now, Janus, we understand it's a long journey because we just watched it. But I think you forget, like Magic Johnson's rare. Magic enters the league and his teammate is Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. And they were great two weeks in. That is rare. for all of these guys, it just takes years and years. I mean, even Kevin Durant. Yeah. He plays on a team with Hardin and Westbrook, and by the end... They're all young also.

He's exhausted because Westbrook dribbles out the clock. At one point, Durant had more shots at the end of the shot clock than any good player in the league. That was an actual stat. And so, you know, I'll say this again. I do think playing with Janus would be easier than Michael. Michael could be a tough teammate. LeBron, essentially the offense is LeBron. If you look at Janus and what he offers as a teammate, like right now, Milwaukee's the champ.

So Milwaukee's going to do what champs do. The Celtics had this, the Heedles had this, the Spurs had this, where guys looking for rings are like, oh, can I go there and play? Well, it's Milwaukee. First of all, the NBA, the last two months of the NBA seasons in the summer, Wisconsin has beautiful summers. All right, let's be honest about that, and their springs are okay. When you start looking at Janus, can the Bucks be a team? Because I thought last night looked a lot like San Antonio and Duncan. A dominating big, a system, battle of the boards, consistently the Spurs would win those in every series,

and then really good underrated parts. Manu Genoblee, one of the most underrated players in league history. What did we say with Drew Holiday? One of the most underrated guys in the NBA. By the way, the Spurs never got TV ratings. The Bucks games aren't getting TV ratings. Like not every champion is fascinating, is glorious. I mean, those Spurs teams could win ugly and win physical,

and they would dominate the boards. And Duncan would sometimes struggle with free throws. That's Milwaukee. I mean, this looks like to me, the San Antonio Spurs North, very much feels like them. that it's not going to be a big television splash. Because Janice and Duncan are kind of reticent stars. They're not, you know, they don't feel like they're from the great American basketball factory.

They're okay being outsiders. They don't need huge shoe deals. They hang out with their family. You know, they're obsessed with basketball. So you're not going to see them in a lot of movies. The whole thing feels good to me. We'll try to get Nick right back. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific.

Hey, I'm Doug Gottlieb. The podcast is called All Ball. We usually talk all basketball all the time, but it's more about the stories about what made these people love their sport and all the interesting interactions along the way. We talk to coaches. We talk to players. We tell you stories. You download it. You listen to it.

I think you like it. Listen to All Ball with Doug Gottlieb on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me,

Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment and the next we'll talk about life,

mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be.

Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, Follow at Clifford and a TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim?

Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jek. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 was big to me, not just because of crack.

I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really?

Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Keer Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark.

Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross because you find it important to be a good person

while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Keir Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing,

growth, fatherhood, pressure and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. I want to bring back Nick Wright, brought to you by Mercedes-Benz, The Best or Nothing, co-host of First Things First, so he will join us live one more time. So let's start with this.

Manuel Ocho brought this up last night at 26. Michael Jordan had MVP's but no title. LeBron had many MVP but no title. And Janus has an MVP and a title and a full. finals MVP. Do you see, do you see it playing out like that as an all-time great? I mean, right now, he's got what they didn't have at 26. Colin, he's, after last night, he's already an all-time grade. You can't anymore make a credible list of the 25 greatest players in league history and not have Janus on it. Yonis going into last night lived, you know, on the, you know, in the different

tears. He was beneath Scotty Pippin, Kevin McAil, he was living with Clyde Drexler. Now he has ascended past Kevin Garnett. He's staring Dirk and D. Wade and Barclay and Malone all in the eyes and we'll see how high he can get. The only person in the last 60 years in the NBA to at a younger age have at least two MVP's and a championship is Kareem. And Kareem's the third greatest player ever. So what more could he have accomplished at this point in his career? The answer is nothing. And I don't know who is stopping him. Now, does that mean he's going to win five rings? No, of course not. But he doesn't, I mean, we're now talking about could he become one of the 10 greatest players ever? Well, I don't see why not. Is he there yet? No. If he stops playing today, though, he's one of the 25 greatest

players. Yeah, I don't disagree with that, and I do think there's something to be said. I mean, like with Mahomes, we have annoyed him to a place. He's only got one Super Bowl, right? And he trailed in the fourth quarter. But we look at him and go, oh, he does stuff nobody else can do. And I do think there is a visual component, as good as Kevin Garnett and Drexler were or Barkley. They didn't look this physically dominant on both ends. And I think when we're making these sports bar arguments, and Janus has that block. And I'm like, well, nobody else in the league could have done that block. When Dr. Jay did under the basket, nobody else in basketball could do it.

Michael Jordan's switching hands. There are moments in these arguments. It can't just come down to data stats and titles. It's Mahomes does stuff and you're like, yeah, nobody else can make that throw. I don't care if he has nine rings. I don't. And when I watched Yonis last night, I'm like, he had two plays in this series. When he literally outruns all the guards down the floor for an alleyup and the block.

I don't know. When I think of all-time great, Nick, I do have a visual component to it. Of course. Of course. It's why it's so hard to evaluate the name that keeps getting mentioned. The only guy to do 50 in a close-out finals game is Bob Pettit. The reason no one ever talks about Bob Pettit is an all-time great is because no one alive saw him play except for Bob Ryan.

So everyone's like, I don't know. I'll take his word for it. I mean, he seems like he was good, but who the hell actually knows? And so like that's a problem, right? Of course it's a visual thing. And I'm so sick of people. There's a few of the Janus critiques that make me so frustrated. People are like, well, he's just so big and strong.

First of all, there are 60 guys in the league as taller, taller than him. There's 55 guys in the league that weigh as much or way more than him. And while he didn't earn the height, he earned the weight. He put that muscle on. We have seen the pictures of him as a rookie. But the other element is this. It's like, wait, the big, strong, tall, super athletic guy is dominating. Yeah, that is the entirety of NBA history.

Who dominated the 60s? Wilton Russell, the 70s. Kareem. Why was Kareem so good? Well, he was 7-2 and had a shot that literally no one could block. Now, Magic and Bird, that wasn't about raw athleticism. Michael was an amazing athlete, but he was average NBA height. But then we get to the 2000s.

Oh, Shaquille O'Neal? Was it physical gifts? LeBron, James? Yeah, basketball IQ out of this world. But he's also arguably the greatest natural athlete the world's ever seen. So like it makes sense that Janus will dominate. And it makes sense that he should be great. And so, yeah, of course there's a visual component.

And you mentioned Dr. Jay's hands. And you mentioned the iconic plays. the block and the dunk that he had in this series, you can count on less than one hand how many human beings alive could have done either of those things, much less both of them. By the way, what's Chris Paul's future?

I do think the Lakers would fit, but there is something to be said about, I don't know if Frank Vogel is going to be there in a year. I know Monty Williams will. I mean, Chris has got a little vagabond. He's willing to grab his suitcase and travel, but I look at it and I think to myself, Phoenix feels right. That's how he should end his career. That's how I think about it this morning.

Well, maybe. And listen, Phoenix, assuming Robert Sarver doesn't go full Robert Sarver and decide just to be totally cheap. Phoenix will offer him more money than anybody or as much. But I'm not sure how much the money's going to matter. Four guys in NBA history have made $300 million on the court. LeBron, Garnett, Kobe, and Chris Paul. And I do wonder if Chris Paul getting a taste of the finals is going to say, what matters to me is not the three years hundred million. What matters to me is getting back to this place. And while he wouldn't admit it, if we're being honest, Colin, right now, if someone were to offer you an even money wager, and I know you're a big time gambler these days,

Colin, which is more likely? The sons next year are back in the finals or the sons next year don't know. make round two. I think everyone is saying, well, if it's one or the other, I'll say they don't make round two because the Lakers will be back, Jamal Murray will be back with the Nuggets. I personally believe the Mavs will be super dangerous with Luca in year four. And then you have Golden State lurking. And that's not even to mention, that's just assuming Kauai's out for the year. Who knows what happens there. So I'm not sure what matters to Chris Ball. If it's not money, then obviously going to the Lakers makes a ton of sense.

By the way, don't you think it's interesting? And I know you're good friends with Aaron Rogers, but the... Oh, my God, you always say that. The least... Just because... Go ahead. Go ahead. Joy brings up a good point. The timing's not great for Rogers.

You have the least manipulative super star in America and the most manipulative superstar in America in the same basic vicinity. Yeah. Do you think the timing's worse for him? or for this show as a collective. You get Colin who abandoned Janus, like a used rug on the side of the road. I don't even know if he was one of the 10 best players in playoffs.

And Joy Taylor, who was, you know, doing a soft opening of a very strong anti-Yonis stance just a few weeks ago that I was trying to push her towards. You, I heard, you know, you were saying we were having technical difficulties earlier. I think Joy literally got up and pulled the plug just to prevent me from reminding America that there was some real yonest skepticism emanating from this gorgeous herd studios. And so, yeah, is it worse for Aaron or is it worse for you too? I'm not sure.

That can be debated. Good seeing you, buddy, as always. Nick Wright, first things first. I think we're all happy today. I really like it. I think there's a part of, you know, flyover country that thinks we're always rooting for the glamour teams. And I think there's room for that.

But if you look at the NBA, I think that's always been overplayed. We now have a 2011 Dallas team that did it one way, which is just stay with our international player. We have a Spurs team that wasn't about glamour that dominated the league for about eight years. Small market. Small market. Golden State won a title before KD. They drafted Clay. They drafted Steff.

They drafted Draymond. We have a Toronto Raptors team that did it. College football, I can tell you who's going to be in the final. Yeah. For the last decade. The same team's over and over. college football guys always ripping the NBA and I'm like, no, once again, we have a great story. An international kid works hard, fails, fails, fails, fails, failed.

We abandon them and it comes back and wins. It's a movie. The NBA is this whole thing about super teams is so overstated. Yes, but super teams always come with two major flaws. One, big salaries. You're not going to have a bench. Okay, so your star has got to play a bunch of minutes. And the second thing is egos.

and nothing breaks up the band like egos, rock bands and NBA teams. So Milwaukee, this feels like San Antonio to me. Super teams elicits very visceral responses. Yes. So we tend to over-exaggerate how much they exist and how impactful they are and how much they take over the league. And then when you look at the facts, that's not really how it works. It goes up and down.

It's like everything else in life. There's a little bit of balance to it. Sometimes they win, sometimes they lose. They just elicit more anger and opinion than the smaller market teams that build things all the way up. Yeah. So I think we're going to go, and I don't know if it's good for TV ratings, but I think Milwaukee, like the Spurs, is going to have about a seven to eight year run with a chance for multiple titles. Let's be honest.

The East is easier to get through generally than the West. Hour two of the herd next. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guide, not quite on humor. with Robert Smygel and Friends, me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encourage. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Look Back at a Podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me.

It was big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. It was a wild year.

I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. A win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media.

Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Cliford Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Cliford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network. on TikTok.

This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.