The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 08/09/2021 - Best of The Herd

Episode Date: August 9, 2021

Doug Gottlieb filling in for Colin breaks down the big Josh Allen contract and what it means for the rest of the 2018 Draft Class. The 49er’s quarterback situation seems to have no obvious leader since Jimmy G. might not be with the team long term. Plus, Doug Whaley former General Manager for the Buffalo Bills stops by for all the happenings and insight in the NFL! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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This Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast, Deeply Well with Debbie Brown, if you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole. This podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to Deeply Well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast. on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Joey Dardano, and on my new podcast, Hope from a Hypocrite, I'll be changing lives, helping people in need with thoughtful solutions. Sike, I'm a comedian. I'm not qualified to give good advice.

Join me and my comedian friends as we riff rant and recommend some of the most legally dubious advice known to me. This is Help from a Hypocrite, the worst advice from the dumbest people you know. Listen to Help from Hippocrite Wednesdays on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Will Ferrell's Big Money Players and IHart Podcasts presents soccer moms. So I'm Leanne. Yeah. This is my best friend, Janet.

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This is the Best of the Herd with Colin Cowher on Foxx. Sports Radio. What up? Welcome in. This is The Herd, wherever you may be, and however you may be making this part of your day. Thanks so much. I'm Doug Gottlieb. In for Colin Cowherd.

We got a great show for you live from Los Angeles. I hope you had a spectacular weekend. Personally, I watched more, like, I should have planned this thing better. I really should have. I had knee surgery on Friday afternoon. and I should have done it first football weekend of the season. If I knew where I would be located, which was on my couch with my remote,

I guess I should have known. I should have done that. Regardless of which, I did get a chance to see NFL football of some variety with the Hall of Fame game. We did see Team USA victoriously. They were victorious in the gold medal winning game.

I want to get to my thoughts. on Kevin Durant and what was gained, what was lost in our gold medal performance. And, well, we got some other stuff to get to as well. Like the Hall of Fame speeches, which, like, I get, like, wrap these things up. The guy you want to hear more from in Peyton Manning, we only got six minutes up. So it was just filled with one lines and zingers and a great mamba out, you know, God bless football line. But we got a good, we got a good amount. to get to. Plus, Jason Lockham four will join us. John McCain, of course, covered the Houston Texans since they became the Houston Texans, since their infancy, going back to the Houston other days, covered NFL football. He tweeted out earlier today that Deshaun Watson will never play for the Houston Texans ever again. And then Albert Breer tweeted out that the Texans are still trying to work out a way in which he can play for the, it's very confusing. We'll figure out Deshaun Watson, Jimmy Garapolo, and some other stuff. We got a litany of quality football guests.

Speaking of football, the big news over the weekend is Josh Allen, star quarterback, Buffalo Bills, signs a new deal. Now, the new deal will keep him in Buffalo for, what is it, six more years and in addition, potentially, six more years in addition to the two years remaining on his contract. Now, we'll get to what it means for two other quarterbacks, same draft class, Lamar Jackson, Baker, Mayfield in a second. but here's one where you do you scratch your head and you you wonder aloud hold down now is this another Jared Goff now the stats would tell you there's a lot of erie similarities you're like no way Josh Allen's way better than Jared Goff I tend to agree with you I tend to agree with you but if you just look at it from the raw stats right it's kind of alarming win percentage. And I will grant you that Jared Goff, it felt like once he took over, it was taking over a

better roster. But the fact is, if you look back, the Rams were bad. They were bad in his first year. So it wasn't like they were an 8-and-8 team under the previous regime. But still, Jared golf has won 63.1% of his games. Josh Allen has 1.6% of his games during his first three years in the NFL. Their completion percentage? Jared golf 62.1, Josh Allen, 61.8. Their touchdown to interception ratio. Josh Allen, a couple more TDs, 67 to the 65 of golf, but also Josh Allen, a couple more interceptions, 31 to 26. Yards gained, 9,700 via the pass for Josh Allen, 9581 for Jared Goff.

Yards per attempt, actually more for Jared Goff, 7.7 to 7.2 for Josh Allen. Passer rating, Jared Goff actually higher. 94.7 to 90.4. So you look at it and you're like, man, the stats. Jared Goff, actually, was he better in his first three years than Josh Allen? And if, you know, we do this keeping up with the Jones's thing, but should we keep up with the Joneses when they spent poorly like the L.A. Rams did.

Look, I was at Rams camp last week and they could not be more excited about Matt Stafford. And they do appear to not just be another playoff team, but a team that if they're healthy, if Aaron Donald's healthy, Matt Stafford's healthy, their offensive lines healthy, no reason to think they can't compete for a Super Bowl. But they signed Jared Goff to an extension a year before they needed to, much like Josh Allen.

And they rude the day. They just did. Now, there's, here is the, here are the differences. Josh Allen was drafted by the same head coach and general manager that he's playing for. Remember, Jared Goff was, was drafted by the previous regime, different head coach. So Sean McVeigh did not, who is a quarterback whisper, a quarterback guru.

He's a Gruden guy who you do think can run out of patience with quarterbacks. Sean McVeigh was not the head coach there when they drafted them. So there is a little bit of sweat equity there. In addition, the things that we aren't pointing out is that Josh Allen is a far better athlete. And he's made plays with his legs. He's also one of the reasons for more interceptions is he pushes the ball downfield more often is one of the things that really burned Sean McVey on Jared golf was he wouldn't take chances on their explosive plays.

But this is not a perfect science. And stats are not always telling. And I believe the bills have a better quarterback, a better fit. They play in worse conditions and they got a stronger arm guy. And right now they're doing a victory. lay up saying we finally found our quarterback. We've been searching since Jim Kelly retired to find our next grade quarterback and we got him and we locked him up.

But there is precedence for this type of early success and yet not being the right contract, not being the right guy. Which brings us to the Ravens. John Harbaugh said, quote, it's not really a hurry for us. He's going to be our quarterback for years to come. Remember, the Ravens, much like the Bills, much like the Browns. You have two more years of contract and then potentially two more years of franchise tag if you want to. All that time, you know, during the next four seasons, you can negotiate some sort of long-term extension.

And with the cap spiking up next year after being down this year, there's untold millions out there for Lamar. And let's also be honest. We have questions about Lamar's longevity in terms of his health. He proved a lot of people wrong in terms of his ability to come from behind, get a road win in the playoffs, two things we didn't think he could do, and he has done. Now he has to take the next step, and the challenge to Lamar Jackson is, once he starts making all that money, he's played with a Super Bowl defense, his first three seasons. Once he starts making all that money, can the Raven still support him and can the entirety

of the team be good enough for when Lamar goes on his inaccurate streaks? Where he turns the football over. For Baker Mayfield, you know, I don't. don't know what his thinking is. Every quarterback comes into this thinking, whatever the highest dollar value that the last contract sign was, I'm going to get one dollar more. But I think all of us are reasonable thinking Baker Mayfield's not that guy. He is, and there's an absence of a middle class in quarterback play. And Baker Mayfield feels like the first of the guys that'll be, he's not a $40 million year guy. He's probably not a mid-30s guy. But in the high 20s with the salary cap going up, If you can continue to surround him with all of these players,

he's a pretty good leader and a pretty good quarterback. That's, I think, the feeling. But if he prices himself out, he could be out. Look, I like that the Ravens and the Browns are going to let this thing play out a little bit. Hey, the more info we have, if he's really the guy, he's really the guy. And we'll figure out what to do with the fifth year that contract works by. And we'll figure out what to do with the franchise tax. And I do, look, I think Josh Allen appears to be an absolute stud.

He improved in his accuracy from year two to year three and that type of jump we don't normally see. And we'll see if he's able to maintain that level or even improve it. Lamar Jackson has improved in his accuracy for the most part. Took a little bit of a step back in many ways last year. But now they continue to try and mold and fit that offense around him. And he had COVID last year and things, other things set him back. I'm a sit and wait guy. I would rather pay more.

This is like me. You know what this is like? This is like if you're going to go on a trip. And it really comes down to the type of person you are. Some people, the second they know they're going to go on a trip, they go and lock in and get the flights. To me, the flexibility is way more valuable. Way more valuable.

I would rather pay $100 more and fly at the last second where I get the exact times at the exact airport, at the exact location that I want instead of, hey, man, look at this killer rate. Yeah, but you got to fly out of Ontario. Not L.A., not Ontario, California, Ontario, Canada, right? No, you got to fly out of some nondescript airport. You have a long layover. You don't stay exactly at the resort. Like, what am I doing here? Just to save money? If you're the Ravens, you're the bills, you're the Rams, you're the Browns.

Aren't you better off spending a little bit more but being completely and totally sure of what you got and how you want to use it? We don't know what the. cap's going to look like. We don't know what football is going to look like with 17 games this year. We don't know a lot of things. Heck, last year, if you really want to be honest, last year was the easiest year to play quarterback in the NFL. No, you didn't have the same prep time, but you didn't have road opposing fans to cause any sort of noise or any sort of ruckus. These veteran quarterbacks, even the rookie quarterbacks, they're not walking into hostile environments last year. So if it's me, I'm better off with the Ravens.

The Ravens being cautiously optimistic. We'll get a deal done. We may end up paying a little bit more than we want to, but at least we know what we're getting when we pay for it. And we know what the salaries look like. And we know what some of these new pieces fit in around it. And we know if Lamar has taken that next step, or was it a step back because he just has a lower ceiling than we thought.

It's the same thing for Baker. Remember, Baker had some downs. There were some doubts last year. There were some times in which he was holding them back. Now, I think talent-wise, they're a favor to not just make the playoffs like they did last year, but make a run in the playoffs. If he holds them back,

then that should temper your enthusiasm with a contract. This is just like booking flights. Heck, it's just like going to flights. I like booking flights at the last moment. I like showing up at the airport the last moment. I like as much freedom to make a decision and make a change as possible. That's valuable to me. And God bless the bills, they've been searching for 20 years to find that guy and they think they found that guy.

But between Carson Wentz and Jared Goff, those are two. Even Derek Carr, those are some contracts, which I think most of us would say, I'd like to take that one back. Maybe not necessarily even the dollars, just the year and which they decided to do it, doing it early before you absolutely know and then getting burned, there is Preston for it. And while I think Josh Allen is much better than Jared Gough, and the Buffalo Bills drafted him, they coached him, and he's led them to the playoffs, and he appears to be a guy who continues to improve and work. And some of the work ethic with

Jared Gough was called in the question. The fact is, they cut out any of their sort of flexibility so that they have cost certainty, which is fine. Like that, again, there's a given to take there. They know what their quarterback's going to cost for the next half decade or so. That has value to them. To me, what has value is flexibility. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games.

Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman. documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Jared Adano.

You might know me as that loud guy who yells out, help on the internet. Help! Somebody! Please! But there's so much more to me than that. I'm an actor. I'm a comedian. and recently I've become quite the helper myself. And on my new podcast, Hope from a Hypocrite, I'll be changing lives, helping people in need with my sage advice

and thoughtful solutions. Sike, I'm a comedian. I'm not qualified to give good advice. Join me and my comedian friends as we riff rant and recommend some of the most legally dubious advice known to man. If I'm calling you, even if you're on your phone, let it ring twice.

One ring is too skinny. Carrie. Cream of chicken suit. Hey, cream. Cream a chicken suit. This is Help from a Hypocrite, the worst advice from the dumbest people you know.

Listen to Help from Hypocrat as part of the MyCultura podcast network available on the IFAR radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm CJ Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defining the odds.

Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what? He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows. Without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game.

We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the

night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers why he got the ball, like, after you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah,

you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Saigon, the story of my family and of the country that shaped us. The United States will not.

stand by and allow any power, however great, take over another country. From My Heart Podcasts, Saigon. Please allow me to introduce Joseph Sherman. You don't think I'm serious about a free Vietnam? I should stop talking so much. I like hearing you talk. One city, a divided country, and the war that tore America apart. This is for Vietnam.

I've taken a hit from Japanese ground fire. Do you rate me? They're pouring petrol all over him. He's holding matches. I'm on a landmine. For three, die. Let's get out. Freedom, Mom, it, nah.

Cigone, starring Kelly Marie Tran and Rob Benedict. Sting, here's madness. The world should hear about this. There's a fire coming to this country, and it's going to burn out everything. Listen to Saigon on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Maybe the most interesting, interesting storyline in the NFL. I just, I don't see. Sean Watson being traded.

The Deshawn, how do you, how do you sell your franchise on or your fans on? Hey, we're bringing in a guy who's got these pending lawsuits against him. Houston can't play him. He doesn't want to play for Houston. It's a marriage that's going to end in a divorce. It's just the timing isn't right right now. So, you know, look, there's, there's a lot of different quarterback storylines, which are interesting.

I think the Jimmy Garoppolo won, okay, is maybe the most interesting. Because it's true. Jimmy Garapolo did not make the plays in the Super Bowl that could have closed the deal, could have won them the game. And there's just no way in which you can convince me that throwing eight passes in the NFC championship game signified that they had a tremendous amount of confidence in Garapolo. Look at how they were playing even at the end of the third. first half in the Super Bowl. So yes, he was able to get them to a Super Bowl. Yes, he was able to

help them see sustained success, which they hadn't seen really since Alex Smith was there. You know, they had success with Colin Kaepernick, but Kaepernick, if you look back, he took over one season, the next season was really good, and then he kind of plateaued and even, and really kind of fell off after that. And then the team had to be retooled. Garopalo has given them some consistent success when he's played, they've been a playoff team. Even go back to his first year, remember, when he went on that run, he got traded by New England, they weren't going to play him, then they played him, they started winning games and surprised even themselves.

This was Kyle Shanahan talking about his quarterbacks. It's both of them. That's why we keep repping it. I mean, it's a hard thing about it. That's why when you just dabble in that stuff, you're going to get turnovers. He goes on to say that that, that grandkids. Garapolo, right? Garapolo looks sharp.

Garopolo is playing the best football of his life. But the reality to it is, you know, you move mountains to go and get your quarterback and you trade and get Tray Lance. Now, if you want to say, hey, Garapolo is going to have a longer leashed and other people in his position because Tray Lance only played one football game last year and wasn't playing at a super high level, like that's fair. It's fair. but Lance started fast over the weekend and Jimmy Garoppolo kind of caught him. I do think that Jimmy Garoppolo should have the leg up because he does know the system like the back of his hands. He has seen live bullets. He's seen the livelest of bullets in the Super Bowl.

But I, you know, it's like it's really, you can't believe a word any of these things, any of these guys say. Do I believe he's playing the best football of his life? Okay. Sure. Is he motivated by it? Sure. Is he their long-term quarterback?

Of course not. You don't draft a guy that high. You don't move mountains that much unless you're ultimately going to make him your starting quarterback. You don't just suddenly have an epiphany one day driving more. You know, Jimmy is good enough. Let's just stick with Jimmy. Let's figure out how to do it, how to have him both. Like, that's not going to happen.

And the question is, did they do the Sam Bradford? Or did they do the Alex Smith? The San Bradford is, the Eagles obviously signed him, brought him back. then they went and drafted Carson Wentz and ultimately when Minnesota had an injury, they traded and they got a first round draft pick for him. And they end up kind of winning, you know, winning the day, if you will. That's the Bradford, which I don't think you can do with Indy

because Wence will, by most people's estimation, be back. And like, I think we all view Wence as a little emotionally. He has a fragile level of confidence. Like this is what his His flaws are a He's got a self-esteem A quarterback self-esteem issue It's like you want to grab them and say Carson

You're good enough, you're smart enough And gosh darn it people like you A crisis in confidence Isn't help when you bring in Jimmy Garapolo Even if it's because you've been banged up And you're always hurt It definitely takes him out of the Nick Foles They can't bring in Nick Foles

Can you imagine your Carson once? You're like again with this guy? No thanks. It doesn't matter how good of friends they are, how good he, Nick Foles are a great human being. He's going to be a pastor when he's done. Like, all that is great. It's still Nick Foles, the guy who won the Super Bowl

while he sat there and watched his team win it. But to me, he's playing the best football of his life signifies they want to move him. But it's weird because do you want to move him when you could legitimately compete for and maybe win a Super Bowl? Like, look, if they have Nick Bost on the defense,

of line. If they're healthy, that's a stacked group. That's a stacked group. And as much as Tray Lance checks a bunch of boxes, the idea that Tray Lance played one football game last year and never played consistent wasn't playing high major D1 football and he's going to come to the Niners and take them to the Super Bowl, nobody sees that. The San Bradford thing is the dream. The Alex Smith thing is the reality. Right. Which is. is you hold on to him, you let him have this entire year, you make it about Garapolo, you make him the quarterback, and you tell him, like, look, this is all that auditioned for next year's job somewhere else.

But the meantime, you're our quarterback. But it is weird when you start putting out the he's playing the best football of his life sort of thing. That is the somebody come make an offer sort of statement, right? As much as the Texans are an abject disaster with their Deshawn Watson thing, of course, You got a guy in front office who drafted Jimmy Garapolo. And as much as it doesn't feel like there's another team, right? There's Houston.

All right, we can't do it. They got too many quarterbacks and they got to figure out the Deshaun thing. All right, Philly can't do it because they're waiting on Deshawn Watson. Okay, Indy can't do it because they don't want to, they don't want to hurt the fragile confidence of Carson wins. Those are three options. They'll be three more. They'll be three more. Kyle Shanahan talking about 49ers QBs to Albert Breer.

I think it's going to be tough for Lance to win the job, just in terms of being two different styles of quarterbacks and maybe different styles of offense for both. I'd be very surprised if we did with the way Jimmy's playing. I put a lot of that on a kid to do that. He's doing everything he can. He's very impressed with him so far, but I'd be very surprised if that happened.

John Lynch told this to Adam Schafter. Jimmy is a big-time competitor, and we haven't played a game yet. but in practice, in the offseason, and practice in training camp thus far, he's playing the best football since he's been here. Now, here's the reality to going, and I think some of you know this from playing in high school.

Those of us who played in college know it. And the same rings true in the pros. There's a lot of people that ask questions about, hey, Anthony Lynn, for example, last year. Okay. If you ask anybody around the Chargers, Now, they're like, how were we settling on Tyrod Taylor or Terad Taylor? Now, you have to keep in mind that Anthony Lynn had coached Tarad Taylor in Buffalo when they went to the playoffs.

And that Tarad Taylor is a guy who never turns the ball over and he was replacing Philip Rivers who became a turnover machine late in his career. But more than anything, Taylor knew the offense. Taylor knew what he was supposed to be doing. Whereas it was completely and totally new. It's completely and totally new for a rookie quarterback. And so when you have, it's not just having sweat equity. When you just know what you're supposed to do and how you're supposed to do it and where the ball's supposed to go, it makes everything so much easier for you.

You know? So when you sit there and you ask yourself, how could Justin Herbert sit behind to Rod Taylor, if not for, you know, the team doctor mistakenly injecting the lung of Terrad Taylor, right? I mean, Justin Herbert is an absolute, looks like an absolute star. You go to Chargers practice, and if you're like me and you've been to their training camp the past three or four years, especially going back to when they had Philip Rivers, it's like a, it's a different sport.

There were just areas of the football field that Philip couldn't throw the ball to anymore. There are no areas of the football field when Justin Herbert can't. throw the football too. He looks the part, he acts the part, he feels, how could they have missed? Well, look, Trey Lance is the same thing. Trey Lance has checks a ton of boxes for what eventually the Niners quarterback's going to look like. But I can tell you this.

Again, this is, it's different, but it's the same. My first year in college, I went to Notre Dame, I played for John McLeod. John McLeod was a long time, 18 years ahead coach, I believe, in the NBA. and I was, I guess, promised. I was told I'd be the starting point card. And I would tell you three weeks into practice, I didn't think I could ever play college basketball. I was that bad.

Because you think, you think, like, and I played for an outstanding high school coach. I played for a high-level AU program. I played in every different All-Star game. You know, I played a high level, whatever the highest level, and I played against college guys and pro guys in the summer. But I got there, and they start set. real screens and running real offense and playing real defense and I was completely lost.

Completely lost. Part of it was they were running like a style of motion offense. I had never run before. There was no traditional secondary break. I'd never played that way before. But more than anything, they were bigger, faster, stronger, but they knew what they were doing. And it's so it took about a month before I kind of figured it out.

And in all honesty, I got to play long before I should have. Why? Because the coaches saw what ultimately my ceiling was, which is what they all see with Tray Lance. They know ultimately Tray Lance is going to be the guy. It's just a mix-up. Do we let it organically happen on its own where Jimmy falls apart? Do we let it organically happen on its own where Jimmy plays out this year and then contractually? He wins over the locker room. It's a challenge. We know how it all ends, but how do they actually get to how it all ends?

that's what I think is the fascinating part. We know Trey Lance is going to be the quarterback next year in San Francisco. But these next 12 months, what does that look like? Trying to read the tea leaves and trying to believe that John Lynch really thinks that Jimmy Garoppolo is a competitor and is capable of playing despite this intense pressure, a guy looking over his shoulder. But I've also lived on this earth long enough to not believe a word of what GMs tell anybody who's got a pen and a pad. to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. Hey, it's Ben, host of The Fifth Hour with Ben Maller, along with my trusty sidekick, David Gascone, would mean a lot to have you join us on our weekly auditory journey.

You're asking what in God's name is the fifth hour? I'll tell you, it's a spinoff of the Ben Mather show, a cult hit overnights on FSR. Why should you listen? Picture, if you will, a world where we chat with captains of industry, in media, sports and more every week, explore some amazing facts about a huge. nature and more. Listen to the fifth hour with Ben Mather on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, I'm Jared Adano. You might know me as that loud guy who yells out, help on the internet. Help! Somebody! Please! But there's so much more to me than me. I'm an actor. I'm a comedian. And recently, I've become quite the helper myself. And on my new podcast, Hope from a Hypocrite, I'll be changing lives, helping people in need with my sage advice and thoughtful solutions.

Psyke, I'm a comedian! I'm not qualified to give good advice. Join me and my comedian friends as we riff rant and recommend some of the most legally dubious advice known to man. If I'm calling you, even if you're on your phone, let it ring twice. One ring is too scary.

Cream a chicken suit. Hey, cream. Cream a chicken suit. This is Help from a Hypocrite, the worst advice from the dumbest people you know. Listen to Help from Hypocrat as part of the My Cultura Podcast Network available on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas.

And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges. of the playoffs.

I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nass would get that thing. That man, hell get to fly. He running up the court, licking his fingers, why he got the ball.

Like, you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah. figure it out real quick. Ah, yeah. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the boss. So listen to Point Game on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Saigon, the story of my family and of the country that shaped us. The United States will not stand by and allow any power, however great, take over another country. From IHeart Podcast, Saigon.

Please allow me to introduce Joseph Sherman. You don't think I'm serious about a free Vietnam? I should stop talking so much. I like hearing you talk. One city, a divided country, and the war that tore America apart. This is for Vietnam. I've taken a hit from Japanese ground fire. Do you rate me?

They're pouring patrol all over him. He's holding matches. I'm on a landmine. Four free time. Let's get out. Freedom from Vietnam. Run! Saigon, starring Kelly Marie Tran and Rob Benedict.

Sting, here's madness. The world should hear about this. There's a fire coming to this country and it's going to burn out everything. Listen to Saigon on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Doug Ghalyman for Colin, this is the herd. Let's talk some football with a guy who's been a general manager in the National Football League. And he's been in the same situation as so many of these GMs where you have a young star quarterback who you drafted, who you put equity behind. And yet you have a guy who has more experience and probably looks better in.

camp in practice. Doug Whaley joins us here in the herd on Fox Sports Radio. Doug, how are you? Doug, I'm doing great. I mean, last weekend, obviously last week, football started and you had an induction ceremony these last two days and it just means

every day's a holiday now that football season started. Okay, so you're the general manager of the Buffalo Bills and you draft E.J. Manuel, right? I was assistant GM, but I was part that draft, absolutely. Okay. So you guys draft, you guys draft DJ manual at the time was,

was Fitz still under that big contract there? What was the other situation for the rest of the quarterbacks on that team? Yeah, Fitz was still under that contract and we were really looking for somebody that would be the heir apparent and take us to that, to that next level, as in a young guy that's going to be there for 10 to 15 years. And it was one of the things that the GM At the time, Buddy Nick was there, and he just said before, and at the time, unbeknownst to me, he said, before I leave, I want to get a quarterback for the future of this organization. And after we drafted him, I think it was maybe a week later, he decided to hang him up. And then that's when I took over in 14 after the draft.

Okay, so truth be told, was E.J. your pick as well? Did you, if you would have been able, and like, obviously, we now, we can go back and we could pick a party Jay's games, brilliant human being. But would that have been your pick, or did Buddy make the final call? Buddy made the final call. But the way we set it up,

he would have been our pick, or if I was the GMI pick, but probably not in the first round. He was, and Buddy was just so adamant about getting him. It was his guy, and he wanted to remove all doubt, and that's one of those things.

especially with the rookie salary cap now, you can overdraft quarterbacks, especially in the first round, because it's not going to be such a burden on your cap as before that, like it was before when they didn't have that rookie salary cap. So if you like a guy, especially at that quarterback,

you want to remove all doubt so you're not kicking yourself saying, I wish we would have. Okay, so how do you, how do you go about, you know, you want them to be the, the starter, but you know he's not ready.

Like, how do you go about that in terms of allowing there's some competition, but also allowing the guy that you want to assume the job, assume the job? Well, what do you do is you have competition, and that's one of the things, but you structure it in a way that the guy doesn't get overwhelmed. You want him to come in and be able to assimilate to being a professional. And it's just like going from high school to college, and you did it. too, Doug, there's that transition period. And some guys can take that transition and run with it day one.

And other guys, it's going to take some time for them to assimilate, especially at that quarterback position. You don't want to overburden them real too quickly, unless until you see them respond. And if they respond in a very mature way, then you let the reins off and say, go get it. And there's some guys that have done it. and they've done it to a high level.

And there's other guys that have taken some time. And that's why I always say about Mahomes. He is an incredible talent, and everybody saw the feeling that he could reach to. We, especially in Buffalo, weren't sure how long it would take him to get there. And the situation he came into in Kansas City, I thought is the main reason why he's as good as he is as quickly as he is.

If he goes to another situation, is he the Mahomes that's been to two Super Bowls and one one already at this time in his career? I don't know. I would probably say no. But because he went into that right situation and they had a plan for him, it just shows that that's, and it's a case-by-case basis, but they did a great job with him. No, I say it's a great point because I've defended the bear.

I have some friends in the Bears organization, and they kind of told me like, look, it's the same thing. like we like Mahomes. We thought he had a higher ceiling than Mitch Trubisky, but we also were worried about the floor. And, you know, Trubisky seemed like a better kind of rah-rah leader, whereas remember they're replacing a guy in Jay Cutler

who everybody hated, right? The players just didn't like Jay Cutler. So you got to bring a guy that everybody loves. And not that people don't love Mahomes, but he's a very laid-back personality, especially early Omni. First, who you're seeing now in a Pat Mahomes was not who he was coming out of the draft.

And that's a really hard thing to, how does a guy assimilate to the NFL? Does being a star go to his head? These are hard things to judge. But I would agree with you is that we have no idea what Pat Mahomes would look like had he been drafted by anybody other than the Kansas Chiefs. Not about it. And you've got to look at it too. You hit something that a lot of people don't think about.

Look at how he is a leader off the field now. What he's done with the social awareness and the, social justice and how he's ingratiated himself in the community. And he's just a big leader or strong a leader off the field in his community and in the country and taking that mantle of being the face of the NFL. Yeah. That's a that's a burden that a lot of people can't, can't bear. Add to the fact the pressures that is, that come with being a starting quarterback,

a first round pick that they gave up a lot of draft capital to go up and get. that's a lot of pressure for him to shoulder it and not only shoulder it, but drive. I told you that that's a special human being, but they had a special plan for him, and his support system has to be very, very successful, and they have, and shown that they got the right team around them. Doug Whaley, joining us here. Doug Gottliebun for calling this to the herd. What people don't know about Doug is before he was a general manager and assistant general manager,

he was a scout with the Pittsburgh Steelers. I believe, you tell me if I'm wrong, you're one of the guys. guys credited for for saying hey we need to get Troy Palomalo take me back to Troy Palomalu when you saw him in college and then yesterday we see him officially become a Hall of Famer what you remember the first time you saw Troy play it's the paint a picture of a player that someone hasn't seen in person before in the shortest amount of time possible and he is the only player in my 20 plus years of evaluating talent where I when I was sitting

in writing and report, I didn't know what to write. And you're saying, how does that? Because he was such a unique skill set that he wasn't an explosive hitter, but he made tackles. He wasn't a great cover guy, but he always found a way to intercept the ball. He was just an ultimate playmaker. So I came back and I was talking to my boss at the time, Kevin Colburn, and he says, hey, he went out and saw Troy.

What do you think of him? I said, I don't know how to explain this guy, but he's just, you got to take him. He will be a great player. And he goes, I looked at him. He goes, I explained him like water. And I go, what do you mean that? He goes, wherever he needs to be, he'll be there.

If you pour a bottle of water, that water is going to find that crevice, that crack, or wherever it needs to be, he's going to be there and make plays. And I said, that's it. He's like water. It was just, it was the strangest thing. You knew what you liked about him and you knew he was a great football player and he had a high feeling. It was just hard to put in words because it was.

such a unique skill set, and you just couldn't peg him into, oh, he's a hard-hitting safety. He's a free-safy ball haul. He was just everything. What was the draft night? I don't know. Were you in the room during draft night? Like, this is 2003. For people who forget, 2003, Carson Palmer went one.

Charles Rogers went two, right? Andre Johnson, three. Terrell Suggs went 10, right? Marcus Truffant was the first defensive back off the board. At 16, you're sitting there. and, you know, Calvin Pace is available. There's some other Willis McGahey is available. Of course, he had the knee injury.

Larry Johnson, the running back's available. Namdi Osmowai was available. What do you remember about that draft night, 2003? We just remember that all those guys were available, but where we were and where our defense was at that time with Pittsburgh, we thought we needed a playmaking safety. And it was one of the things that Pittsburgh, very rarely trades up in the first round.

So it was a little consternation like, hey, should we do something out of character? But to a man in that room, it was, if you're going to do it for somebody, do it for a guy like this because, and you saw it with his acceptance speech, as good as the player he is on the field, he's a better man off the field. So that he embodied what, again, like he said, the Steeler way and the Steeler culture, he checked. all the boxes, hit all the marks. So we're going to say, we're going to do it, we're going to do it for this guy. And at that time, it was a no-brainer. And we were just hoping no one ahead of us was going to take him and saw what we saw in him. So it was one of those where before the day or two before the draft, we were on the phone

talking to people ahead of us saying, would you be interested at coming up or going down or what are you thinking about in this draft day? So we targeted a couple teams that they were saying, hey, give us a call, two or three picks before our pick. And if our guy either gone or we feel we can move back and there's a guy maybe in your position that we can get, we'll be able to make the deal. So a lot of the framework was tentatively discussed before that day. But that day, it was some anxious moments, but it obviously turned out to be a Hall of Fame moment. Yeah, no, I mean, he's an incredible, incredible football play. And he was a playmaker, right?

There was no real definable way in which he just had to watch him. You had to watch him to get it. And if you watch the football game, he jumped off the screen, both literally and figuratively. Doug Whaley joining us here in the herd, Doug Gottlieb filling in for Colin. Okay, so now we look at current quarterback situations. You got Jimmy Garapolo, who's taking them to a Super Bowl. They led in the second half. Now, he missed on some throws.

But when he's been healthy, they've been a playoff team. they've been a Super Bowl team. But they move mountains to get Trey Lance. He's different. He only played one game last year because of COVID. But obviously, super high ceiling. What are your thoughts on how the Niners should handle the situation? I think you look at it as when you're, if you're a pool player,

you're always looking to make that first shot, but you're also trying to lead that ball so you can set your self up for the second shot. And they're playing pool with this decision because, like you said, Gen Incomello is a productive winning quarterback in the league. His biggest issue is health availability. So what you do is you take a young guy knowing at some point, we will not be able to depend on this player, this quarterback, for the long run. But as he's playing now, let's bring in somebody that's young,

that has all the talent in the world, help him learn behind Jimmy Garoplo that learn behind Tom Brady. Let them learn the trade. Let them learn how to be professionals, how to assimilate to the pro game, especially where he's coming from. He basically had one game last year that he played,

so he lost that year. He was in one double A or championship level. So he's got to make a couple stride, not just steps and strive to be able to perform. at a high level. Why not put him behind a guy like Jimmy Garablo? And oh, well, if Jimmy gets hurt this year, we still have this guy to come in and be able, you'll accelerate his time frame, but he will be able to at least learn from day one

how to be a pro and how to be a quarterback in this league from a guy that's done it at a high level. Like you said, he's been no Super Bowl before. I want to ask you about Josh Allen, who obviously has helped take the bills. They went to the playoffs with Tyrod Taylor, and he's continued. kind of that upward, upward trajectory. They give a massive a deal, $150 million guaranteed, and did it before they necessarily had to. Do you like, philosophically,

do you like the idea of paying a guy made before you have to? I look at it this way. If you wait around and then you have, he blows it up another year, then the price just goes up. Then you start looking at like a Kirk Cousins type deal where you've got to play that franchise tag deal two years in a row.

and it just creates an air in that locker room of saying, what do I have to do to get paid by this organization? If the quarterback that's performed at a high level, two years in a row, three years in a row, and they're not bending over backwards to give him security and be the face of that franchise for the rest of his career, what else do I have to do? So you've got to be careful about the message it sends in that locker room.

And I think doing it a year early sends a great message. It shows that shows Josh. I have security. And I don't have to have this constant nagging by the press over my head of what about the conversation. What about the contract, contract, contract? And then that message it sends in the locker room is just it's worth probably what they paid them. Because if you look at the numbers, I mean, when you look at it, it's not going to be until, year eight that Mahomes actually makes more money than him cumulative.

I think year eight, Mahomes will be made $285 million, and Alan will make $284 million. And think about it, Mahomes has been to two Super Bowls and won one. So it's a great deal for Josh and for bills that they may have overpaid, but they got their guy. Yes, I mean, I hear all of that. But the difference in this and a Kirk Cousin of the Dak Prescott is, those guys were fourth round picks,

so they weren't making anything. There wasn't the fifth year where you have the huge kind of contract bump, right? Like it's, it is different than those situations. And in truth, like you had this year, next year,

and then two or three franchise, like you did have time on your side. I get that you want cost certainty. I get that you're like, this is our guy. But that's what they did with golf. And it felt like the second they signed that golf deal, they had remorse.

Well, that just showed. you that how subjective and how hard it is to evaluate talent and be correct on talent in the NFL because the most unpredictable specimens on this earth are humans. So you got off. He looks great. You give him a bunch of money. For some reason, things go south. Who knows? Was it a bad fit with McBey and he goes to somewhere else and it's going to get you don't know. But I see, in my opinion, especially with the way he has constantly improved, this is, I'm not going to argue and say it was a year two or, they could have waited a year.

Absolutely. I can see that. But if this is your guy, don't be afraid to make that move and make that deal and get it. And then we take the pressure off of everybody. And then they can focus on taking that next step and closing that gap to Kansas City instead of every single. moment. What about Josh's contract? What about Josh's contract? And then also you set the market. So if the number one tick, Baker Mayfield signs before you, for you, then Josh has a better year than Baker.

Then that's going to elevate that price. So what I think they're doing was pay a little bit more now than to pay a lot more later if you wait. Last thing. I went to, I was at Rams camp on Wednesday. And The raving about Matt Stafford, like, look, this guy, he has the experience, he has the arm, he can make every throw. He's more mobile than people understand. Are you a buyer into that this is a massive upgrade for the Rams? I am not. I'm not. I mean, everybody's going to put the blame on Detroit and what they had or lack of weapons and team around Matthew Stafford.

I just think he's a very talented person, very talented quarterback, but there's a difference between being talented and being a winner. When you look at it, Tom Brady, his talent is not in his physical talent. It's in his ability to win, to never say die, and to take it his game to the next level and elevate everybody else's game. and Matthews never done that. Stafford has never elevated the teams around him to get them to win a playoff game. And this is what year?

What year is this? 9, 10 for him? A leopard, after a while, especially in that quarter, in that position, that's hard for him to change his strikes. So I could see him, in my opinion, they got that number one defense. If that comes back, Sean McVeigh, if he lives up to that offensive. guru status that he's been lamented with. I could see him maybe winning his first playoff game. I just don't see it right now.

Of him changes his strikes that much that take them to the promised land of where they want to go. Doug, it's always great to catch up with you. You always give us deep, thoughtful, honest opinions. And I love that you got to see your guy, Troy Palomalo, getting ducked in the Pro Football Hall of Fame yesterday. Thanks for being our guest on Fox Sports Radio. Always a pleasure.

Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Joey Dardano. And on my new podcast, hope. from a hypocrite, I'll be changing lives, helping people in need with thoughtful solutions. Sike, I'm a comedian. I'm not qualified to give good advice. Join me and my comedian friends as we riff, rant, and recommend some of the most legally dubious advice known to me. This is Help from a Hypocrite, the worst advice from the dumbest people you know. Listen to Help from a Hypocrite Wednesdays on the

Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The story I've told myself can then shape my behavior and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast Deeply Well with Debbie Brown. If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole, this podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to Deeply Well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam, it's Isaiah Thomas.

And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast, Point Game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was crying. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow.

Then after that game seven, Marquis come in to you, he's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.