The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 10/29/2020 - HOUR 2 - Browns, Herbert-Lawrence

Episode Date: October 29, 2020

It's not crazy to say the Browns are better without OBJComparing Justin Herbert and Trevor LawrenceGuests: Greg Cosell, Daniel Jeremiah Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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You're listening to Fox SportsRourts. Radio. Ah, here we go. Hour 2, Greg Kosell in a few minutes, live in Los Angeles. This is The Herd, wherever you may be and however you may be listening. We're on Fox Sports Radio and FS1. Joy Taylor and I were just talking during the break. We never, both of us never understand this criticism of, you know, somebody that changes

their mind. People always try to trap politicians. Well, the politician said this three years ago, well, stuff changes in America. The culture changes in America. You know, I mean, we police reform. We had the George Floyd murder. So, like, we see police differently now, and there's going to be changes made. It's not a political statement.

It's a business statement all through life. If you didn't change in life, you'd still throw a fastball and a curve in baseball, and that would be it. But you have a splitter and you have a cutter and you have a split finger because you adapt to new stuff. Like in America, we're changing our police departments. Why? We should. Why? Because of actions that happen that are distasteful or disgusting.

That's the way the world works. Like, change, change, change, change all the time. If you want to get, let's just make it a business topic. You want to get rich? You want to make money. There are no stubborn billionaires. They are changing their mind all the time based on what the new information tells them. We change our police departments.

We change our politicians. We change our businesses. We change our apps. We change our clothes. We change our style. We change our music. We change our food. By the way, organic food.

Wasn't around as I was a kid. My mom thought eating brand muffins made you healthy. Remember the pyramid? Yeah. Where you're supposed to eat like three servings? pasta day. It doesn't work anymore. So when anybody complains, we should be making political changes. We should be making sports changes. It's the ultimate dumb person argument. It is. Like analytics in baseball. You cannot strike out doesn't mean anything. You don't want to hit a ground ball.

The teams that embraced analytics and basketball win titles, warriors. In baseball, Dodgers, very analytical, win the World Series. If you're not changing your mind all the time, you'll never get rich or be in rich. It's become, like, shameful to have a difference. To adjust or to change your opinions. Like, this is what I've been thinking for my whole life. Like, it's, okay, great. This is the same thing with, like, medical information. Like, if you go to the doctor, would you're something wrong with your leg,

would you like the doctor to do surgery based off of the newest, best technology and information? Or would you like him to cut it off? Because that's what they did in the 1800s. That's what you sound like. Yes. Now you can go too far. You know, we talked about this during the social movements and the protest. Like, there's a different.

between defund the police and reform the police. They can go too far and go, tear everything down. No, no, no, no, no, don't do that. We need law enforcement. We need law enforcement. No, you have to change and adjust. But there's no such things that make sense that are extremes. Like make changes.

And you can also have, you know, no conviction whatsoever, which is not what we're talking about. There's nothing wrong with updating your opinion based off of new information. That's exactly what you should be doing all the time. All the time. You do do it. It just may not be with something that you publicly say. That's a good way. But yes, you can change your opinion on, too, if you get information.

By the way, I have this brilliant Ohio rant on football, but I'm going to save it because it's time for Greg CoSell, who changes all. By the way, he's in the film study business. So you don't think Greg CoSell changes his mind when he sees tape and goes, okay, this guy does this better than he did last year. That's the whole world we live in with tape. Players get better. Players are roads.

Stefan Gilmore's not as good a corner now as two years ago. Why? Because the film says he gets beat on the deep ball occasionally. Greg Coel now joining us, 41 years on FAP. Films. Speaking of change, we're getting on kind of a rant here, about it. You have to update and evolve and adapt in life because you get new information and you get new tape. So I am still a Lamar Jackson fan, but it does appear, you know, we got more film, we got more tape, Tennessee beats him. He's not quite as dynamic. Is it,

is it what opponents are doing? Is it what Baltimore is doing? You tell me. I think it's both. I think what we've seen particularly in their last two games against Cincinnati and against Philadelphia is Cincinnati took a really defined tactic of loading the box, literally putting nine players really stacked inside. And what they're doing there is they're saying, you're not going to run the ball on us. We're daring you to throw the ball, and you're going to have to throw the ball to the perimeter outside. The Eagles did the same kind of thing differently, but that's what teams have done the last number of weeks. And now it's up to the Ravens to say, you know what, if you're going to play that way, we will have to throw the ball to the

perimeter. So now it's going to be up to the Ravens and Lamar Jackson and their receivers in particular to really become a factor in a different way because this whole offense has been built on Lamar Jackson as a runner, not as a ball distributor. The ball distribution and the passing numbers are a function of the offense built with him as a runner. So now they may have to adjust. I don't want to say change, but they may have to adjust and tweak and say, you know what, we're going to have to be a little more proactive throwing the football. Okay, so now I have seen kind of the opposite with Kyler Murray. He came into the league, and now this year I'm like, oh, I see improvement.

I see. Now, again, is it what the staff is doing? Is he more comfortable? Kyler today looks a little more comfortable than a year ago, and he looks better, frankly, than a year ago. Is it DeAndre Hopkins? What is it? Well, it's an interesting point because, again, two weeks ago on Monday night football, he did not throw the ball well at all versus the Cowboys, even though they won big.

This past week against Seattle, he threw the ball very well. Now, I think he's an excellent thrower, and I don't view his throwing as an issue. The main thing with him is you want to make sure that he can be as clean in the pocket as he can be. Against Seattle, he was hardly pressure because one of the issues he had as a rookie a year ago is there was too much pressure. pressure, and because he's so small, he overreacts to pressure because he's just small, and he would throw too many balls falling away with poor balance. Now, he's pretty good at that. He's probably had to learn to develop that, Colin.

But he's pretty special in terms of talent. And then you add in the running element, both scrambling second reaction and the design runs, which cause a lot of problems for defenses. So he has a chance to be a really good player. So I was saying there's a lot of elements to Seattle that I think are Super Bowl worthy, but their defensive line is so poor that it undermines the back end of their defense. I like Carlos Dunlap. What, in your opinion, is he a special enough player to solve their defensive issues up front?

Well, he's better than what they have. So obviously, I guess he's not playing this week, but he'll play starting the following week. and he'll play a lot of snaps. He's always been kind of freakishly athletic. He's built like a basketball player. People never viewed him as great, great, because he didn't have 17, 18 sacks. But he can make special pass rushes.

He's long. He's agile. At times he's Gumby-like. He has strength. So I think he's a good player, and he will clearly improve that defensive front because they put no pressure on the quarterback. You know, I'm going to ask you about a quarterback.

I haven't asked a lot. This is a franchise I almost never talk about. So before the season, two people I trust were selling me hard on Detroit, hard on Detroit. And I'm like, I don't like the coach. I don't love the ownership. And I'm hot and cold on Stafford, who has a great arm, but I just feel like it doesn't win the game. So my friends are calling me, they're like, oh, that win against Atlanta, that Stafford. What does the tape say on Matt Stafford at this point in his career?

Well, I'm going to tell you this, Colin, because I was home this summer, as many of us were, I did a deep dive on a lot of quarterbacks. Now, I've obviously watched Stafford his whole career, but I think I watched 350 snaps in a row in a one or two day period of Matthew Stafford. He's a pretty special player. He's been on bad teams. He's won a lot of games in his career in the fourth quarter. And a lot of people look at that and think that's the measure of a really good quarterback. He's done that a lot. He has always been a special thrower going back to his days of Georgia, and I think that he's a really good player. Now, their defense over the last number of years has been awful, and they really have not had a run game. So you're really asking Matthew Stafford

to carry this team every week. And I think it's very hard for any player. I mean, if we're talking about the all-time grades, yeah, maybe there are a few of those guys, but it's very hard to ask any quarterback or have any team go into a game every week and say, to your quarterback. If you don't play great, great football, we really don't have a chance to win. Now, Jimmy Garoppolo, I don't think, is as special a talent. But I, but I, again, take the Miami game out. Right. And as good as Kyle Shanahan is, I've seen his record without Garapolo. I've always felt he's better than all the scouts say, the internet says, I don't think he's a top five quarterback. But when you look at him now as his foot gets healthier, what do you see going forward?

What did you see last week? Well, you know, it's funny you mentioned you put it in a list category. I'm not a list guy. So when you say top five, Jimmy Garapolo is an extremely efficient player in a highly well-schemed offense. And we've discussed this numerous times. That's the job of a coach. The job of a coach is to create a passing game with your route concepts, your route combinations, your design to define the reeds and the throws for the quarterback so the ball can come out on time

and he can be comfortable playing the position. Now, that's not going to happen on 100% of his dropbacks, but you try to do that as often as possible. Now, you do get to third and long, but even when I watched Garapolo this summer and watched a ton of them, Kyle Shanahan does a really good job in those situations as well. So Jimmy Garoppolo is a good throw over the football. He's not truly mobile and athletic in the sense that he's a big time second reaction player. He certainly can do design rollouts, but he's an efficient quarterback in a really well-schemed system. So I had an epiphany last night. It was terrible. So I have loved two of the whole time. And then Joyce laughing at me as I say this. So I had an epiphany last night and I thought to myself, people say size doesn't matter in the

NFL. That's nonsense because the 30 best quarterbacks that have ever played 28 or over six, one and a half, six two. So size has something to do with it seeing over the line. Secondly, if you take the small quarterbacks that have worked in this league, Fran Tarkenden, Russell Wilson, they're Michael Vic. They're incredibly absurdly mobile. He is not absurdly mobile. Well, you wouldn't call Drew Brees absurdly mobile. Okay, so that's my point.

There is one great quarterback in league history that is not overly mobile or big. It's Brees. So in order, and that's who Sabin says he is, so in order for it to work, the keyhole he has to fit into his, can he be Drew Brees? and I sat there this morning and I thought Herbert, the reason Herbert's so good is he's big, he's got a big arm, he can run, and I'm like, yeah, Tua is not big, doesn't have a huge arm, and doesn't move. I had this epiphany, he's not going to work.

There it is. Well, it's funny you say that, and I'm glad that Nick Saban agrees with me or I agree with Nick Saban, however you want to say that. He probably knows a little more football than I do, but when I evaluated Tua coming out in the draft, I said that for him to be a high-level NFL quarterback, he would have to play like Drew Breeze. So I felt that from studying his tape. He's not Russell Wilson. He's a rhythmic player.

He's very quick on his feet on his drop. He sets up. He delivers the football. He transfers his weight. He's very accurate in the short-to-intermediate areas. He's not truly a second-reaction player. He's not immobile. Just like Drew Breeze in his prime was not immobile.

Drew Breeze was a good athlete, but not an athlete in the way that Russell Wilson is or certainly a Kyler Murray. So I think to me, to be great, would have to play the position like a Drew Brees. All right. I'm freaking out. Got to watch the game. See, I'm glad Nick and I agree on that. So last week, everybody went crazy with Baker Mayfield and I said, time out. The fact that Joe Burrow got hit like 12 times has a battle line, had no running game, the fact that Baker had to overcome him several times. I thought, Burrow, when you consider what he has around him, I'm blown away by Joe. I was blown away with him this weekend.

What's the tape say? Yeah, they run a very specific kind of offense. They play a lot with three wide receivers. Over 80% of his past drops have come with three wide receivers on the field. They play out of empty sets more than any team in the league. And empty more often than not helps an offensive line. Because when you're in empty sets, you're doing a very rhythmic passing game. Burrough's really good at that. He's very rhythmic. He has a very good feel for what he sees,

both pre-snap and post-snap. So the ball comes out. The problem is you do get into situations where you need deeper drops, and this O-line does struggle in past protection. But Burrow has been very efficient. There's a refinement to his game that you don't normally see with a rookie quarterback. And finally, before we get to the big play, I had Justin Herbert on this week. And, you know, Joy and I, because I'm from the Pacific Northwest, so I watch a lot of Oregon Duck games. And I watched, and you and I talk about this stuff. I was not a big fan of Jacob Easton at Washington. You and I have talked about this.

But I kept saying to Herbert, I said to people I knew, I was like, okay, he's a four-point student, big, huge arm, and he's mobile. And I watched the Rose Bowl, and I'm like, I don't really understand. I don't get what people don't like. I didn't think he was going to be this good, this fast, but I thought we were nitpicking this poor kid. So when you look at Justin Herbert of the Chargers, I mean, is he better than you thought? Well, can I ask you a question? Because you and I have co-quarterbacks over the years.

Who's more talented? Justin Herbert or Trevor Lawrence? Okay. So at the Rose Bowl, I said, Joy was here. I said, Joy, he looks like a thicker Trevor Lawrence. That's what I told her. I said, this is Trevor Lawrence, but he's thick, his legs, he's thicker. I mean, I don't know.

I thought Trevor Lawrence was. Yeah, I mean, we're being told, and I'm not knocking anybody because Trevor Lawrence obviously has high, high level traits, as, by the way, does Justin Herbert. But we're being told that Lawrence is generational and people are acting like Herbert shouldn't even have been a top 10 pick and that boy, you know, this guy is just not very good. Now, again, I'm sure a lot of people, and I had some concerns with Justin Herbert coming out based on his college tape study, but there's no question he's a high, high level talent.

He's a big armed kid. You hit it on the head. We don't need to repeat that. But this kid is really, really talented. And there's a poise to his game that really shows up when you watch him play. So you have the big play of the week is with him. Yeah, you know, this was an interesting play to me. I mean, there's so many plays you could take with him.

And we can run it right now. This was a seam ball touchdown that he hit last week to Donald Parham, who's about a 67, 6-6-8 tight end. And what was really interesting to me about this play is they had three tight- ends on the field. They had Hunter Henry, they had Parham right there, and then they have Virgil Green who was split. And this caused a lot of problems for the Jaguar's defense and how they wanted to match up. It looked like they were playing cover one with a single deep safety. It might have been three match. But the point is they got Parham running the seam. And because they had three tight ends on

the field, what happened is they got him matched against Schober, a linebacker who was running with him. Now, Justin Herbert, he trusts that Parham's going to win, and he has to control the deep safety. Not really hard stuff here. He's got to make sure that that deep safety stays in the middle of the field. But what I loved here was the timing and anticipation of this throw and the ball placement. I mean, he made this look so easy, and it was the anticipation that was so critical. And with Herbert, there's so many plays. In fact, I didn't think Colony had his best game in the year by any means,

even though they put up 39 points against the Jaguars, but he's so capable of special throws and the movement. You know, he's a very loose and easy mover when he runs either by design or leaves the pocket. Good stuff. Greg CoSell. That's exciting. L.A., we got golf and Herbert. It matters. When you're in a city, you've got to get the quarterback right, and we're in L.A.

And we've got two guys who can play. And this Herbert kid is, I mean, just you don't have to be an expert. You watch him and you're like, okay, that's what a big story. I mean, he got everything. Four-point biology. everything, just right there. Greg Kosel, great seeing you. Thanks, Colin. Appreciate it.

Cowboys, by the way, they're kind of starting to admit they need to rebuild. Kind of, not perfect. We'll talk about that coming up. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays at noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Imagine an Olympics

where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football

or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices

that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show, isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me, or you're just

chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do a little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jay. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s.

To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode. where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people.

Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations

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Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust.

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Chuba Hubbard and Oklahoma State at Four Eastern, followed by Oklahoma, squaring off against Texas Tech. It all kicks off Saturday on Fox and the Fox Sports app. So people have an effect on other people. We know this to be true. You could ask any child psychologist. What I'm about to say is not really disputable or arguable is that little kids affect each other.

Let's say you have two daughters. One daughter is really cute and the other daughter is not quite as cute. and the girl that is cute gets all the attention, and it will affect overwhelmingly the other girl that doesn't get attention throughout the course of her life. If you have two sons, three sons, one is reckless and a little bit of a bully, the other kids watching how that got him in trouble can eventually be prone to being much more safe

because they have watched their brothers and sisters. Ask any parent. You have four kids, they're all different. They have the middle child syndrome. We call it the old child syndrome, the youngest child. syndrome, the middle child syndrome, people around each other change behaviors for a lifetime. We also know in psychology there's a phenomenon called the super saver phenomenon, meaning if two

people got married, you'd never been with each other your whole life, and at 30 years old, you get married to somebody, and you're both savers, you put your money away, you're almost like obsessed with saving money. And if two people get money, get married that are like that, one will become the super saver, and the other one will start spending money, which will create conflict. Because somebody will go, they'll compete against each other to be savers. And at some point, one will be the super saver. And the other one's like, okay, enough already.

I'm going to go buy a Rolex. The point being, we do affect each other. You know, they say pets start looking like their owners. I mean, we affect each other. So Odell Beckham leaving, the Browns are better. I said that. And I've been saying this for two years. They're better without him.

Now that's, Baker Mayfield said that's insensitive. How can you say that? I've been saying that for two years, regardless of the injury. But Kevin Stefansky, despite obvious data, says, oh, that just can't be true. Not smart enough to make an argument for that, Jake. I'll just tell you, I would much rather have 13 on the field if available to us. He's not, so we'll make sure we have a plan to make sure we can move the ball any which way we can. Okay, Kevin, you're a lot smarter than that.

You went to an Ivy League school pen, graduated, and played football. Don't play dumb now. You know the game. It's the Patrick Ewing theory by Bill Simmons that Patrick Ewing, as he got older for the Knicks, was surrounded by very good players, but the organization was so fixated on Ewing when he got hurt and the other guys could rise, they actually went to the finals. It's why A-Rod was the Seattle Mariners best player.

Hit 318, 40 Jacks, went to Texas. He was their best player. But Seattle got better when he left. I'll get to that in a second. Bryce Harper, National's best player, or second best player, leaves good franchise, winter world series. How is it possible? You can't be better without A-Rod in Seattle.

They were set a major league baseball winning record. You cannot be better without Bryce Harper, Patrick Ewing. Yes, you can. This is like child psychology. This is the people react off people. Because superstars and stars, even when fading, get an inordinate about a, amount of hype and attention, it can create jealousy in a locker room. It can suffocate other personalities. They're not allowed to blossom. Also, professional athletes watching A-Rod in Seattle

getting all the attention, A-Rod leaves, and all those players are like, we want to prove we can, we're pretty good without A-Rod. This baby ain't all about A-Rot. And they have career years. Bryce Harper leaves. Good riddins, we can win without him. Less stress because Bryce Harper, is no longer around, so nobody picks the nationals to win the World Series. Nobody picked the Mariners to be any good. Oh, Ewing's gone. The Knicks will be no good. Is that the reality is that we all react off each other.

You work with somebody long enough. You kind of know when they're in a bad mood, when they're in a great mood, when to put your arm around them, when to give them space. OBJ leaving is going to allow Baker Mayfield to sprinkle the ball around like Oklahoma, when he's at his best. There is no disputing that Baker Mayfield comes into the league. A year later, OBJ, a superstar comes into his lap.

This is not a criticism of OBJ. It's a reality. He's a superstar. He's good looking. He's got flare. He's the one-headed catch. He's got a brand. He's got a Bentley. He's got this and that. And Baker feels a need to get him the ball. Wouldn't you? Be one thing if it's Brady or Aaron Rogers or Russell Wilson. Talk to the hand. I'll get it to you when I want to get it to you because I'm a star too.

This is not a knock on O'Ber. It's a reality of who he is, a generationally gifted wide receiver who comes with a personality, a brand, an expectation, a flare, drama. Kevin Stefansky knows this. Cleveland's going to be better. OBJ is going to be fine. It's not insensitive. He's going to have a career. He's already rich. He's a good kid.

He was always a good soldier in Cleveland. But the idea that you can't get better when you lose A. Rod or Bryce Harper or Patrick Ewing is utter nonsense. It's why the daughters and sons and coworkers and couples, you know, my wife's an artist. She's more emotional. When she's in one of her moods, I just know how to react at this point in my career. I back off. I help here. Her emotions change how I act all the time.

My expectations change. My habits change. My movements change. My words change. We all affect each other. this way. It's just basic psychology. And I believe Baker and Cleveland will be a different offense,

maybe not quite as explosive, but they'll share the ball a little more, less pressure, less hype, less expectation, and they'll be very good. Joy Taylor with the news. No, no, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the Heard Line News.

Well, spooky season has you a little nervous about Tuo, but he's only a few days away from his first NFL start. And he's he's approaching this game the same way he has approached the entire season. I think my leadership plan is just to be the same, the same too. I've always been. I, you know, I don't got to go out yelling at guys.

That's just not the way I lead. You know, I'm just going to be me. The Dolphins host the Rams Sunday at one Eastern on Fox. How about this? Smart guy just texted me. He said, why did they give everybody a heads up they were playing him? why wouldn't you announce it Friday night? Why did they give everybody a... Well, I mean, I think it kind of leaked, actually.

All right. Just thrown out to me by... What's the theory behind that? Well, why would you ever give your opponent a heads up? Hey, we're playing the... We're playing Tua. Have them think you're going to play Ryan Fitzpatrick. Yeah, I mean, I think it probably would have just leaked out of the building.

All right, that's fine. Okay, sure. You're still out there. Yeah, yeah. I understand that. But I think it would have leaked out that they were preparing for him. Yeah, because Tua is a big... He is kind of a star without playing you.

Yeah. I'm not as nervous as you. And I wasn't as high. on Tua in the draft as you were. I was much higher on Joe Burrow. I had Tua and Herbert about equal just because there was so much criticism of Herbert, but I

put him up higher. I understood it through the season, but I put him up higher after the bowl game. My concern with Tua was the injuries. Because there were multiple injuries. Everyone just focuses on the hip injury, but there were multiple injuries with Tua. And then the critique of Tua is that he tries to be more athletic than he actually is. He tries

tries to make athletic plays that he shouldn't be making. He should be throwing balls away when he's trying to scramble. He's not as fast as he thinks he is. And in the NFL, that's not going to work because even the, even the worst defense in the NFL is still in the NFL, excuse me, and they're extremely, extremely fast. The worst NFL defense is significantly better than the best SEC defense ever. Ever. Ever. Ever. By a mile. Yes. That whole conversation of like this college team could beat Oh, God. Don't start. I'll get a headache talking about it. They would, they would beat them by 150 points. And that's just because

it's closer to the end of the game, they would be tired. Half of Alabama's draft picks don't play in the NFL much. They don't work. How many stars in the NFL Obama guys? Like six, six, seven, eight. It's a hundred guys drafted. There's eight Alabama stars. It's a nonsense argument. But I am excited to see what Tua can do.

And to the point of everything that we're talking about today, this is why it's so important that you play to it at this point. I think the clock started with Herbert when we saw him and how great he was playing because he was taken after Tua in the draft. This is the year that you played Tua. It was a nice start.

You got Fitzpatrick. You got the ball rolling. There's three and three. It's a perfect point in the season to transition. This was always going to happen. You have to find out what you have in Tua. Because if he's not what everyone thinks he is, if he's not what the dolphins think he is, wouldn't you rather know that now than waiting an entire year with Fitzpatrick?

Of course. What value does it bring the team for Ryan Fitzpatrick to get the dolphins a wildcard? spot to then most certainly lose in the first round. You're not building that momentum with Tua. Now if Tua gets them to a wildcard game, that's a different conversation. Oh, now you're feeling good. Hey, we got the guy. Right. You got the guy. Boom. But if you do that with Fitzpatrick, what did you learn? Fitzpatrick had the best year of his career? Great. He's not going to be the quarterback of the future. I'm really looking forward to this game. It's a great weekend of football.

Some really, really big games this weekend. There's a Rams Dolphins game. I think it may be my favorite. Because I think it is. You have Steelers Ravens? Hey, let me tell you, yeah, that. Brown's Raiders, upset alert. Brown's Raiders, upset alert. Daddy may bring out the wallet. I may bring out the wallet. I like the Raiders a lot this weekend. Blazing 5?

Oh, it's already done. I may have blazing 8. Nothing has gone right for the Jets so far this season. And as the trade deadline approaches, a report surfaced that second year defensive tackle, Quinnon Williams, was on the trade block. But Adam Gates shut that down. He said those rumors are false and that Williams is going

to stay with the Jets. For being an absolutely abysmal team, we have talked about the Jets a lot this season. Yeah. A lot of that has to do with Sam Darnold, obviously. And, you know, they are in New York, so there's something to that as well. But now, also, because they've been so bad, we are having the conversation about if Trevor Lawrence should go there, or, you know, use some of his leverage to go somewhere else. And obviously he came out this week and said, you know, he's not sure what he's going to do,

which is the right thing to say. Like, no one thinks he's going back to Clemson next year, and he shouldn't. Can we stop blaming players in New York? Why are players always blamed for everything? Quinn and Williams is off to a slow start. He's not a bad player? No, no, no, absolutely not. Develop him.

It's a third overall pick by the Jets in 2019. God, it's always the player's fault in New York. Never the coach's fault. No. The trade deadline is Tuesday. Big Tuesday, huh? Tuesday, 4 p.m. Eastern. But Joel Klapp made some really good points yesterday.

not to take Joel's side or anything, but he did point out that the Jets overall isn't as bad of a situation when you really look at what's going on there. You have 11 picks in the 2021 drafts. Oh, no, they got draft picks. Including two in the first rounds. If they move off, if they take Trevor Lawrence, they're going to move Sam Darnold.

So they will get a first rounder for Sam Darnold and likely other picks as well, maybe one or two other picks, obviously later. they have 81.9 million in cap space in 2021. That's the most in the NFL. And they have Joe Douglas, who has won three Super Bowl. So it's actually not the most dysfunctional situation. Like to his point, Joe Burrow was in a worse situation going to the Bengals,

and we've seen what he's been able to do with the Bengals. And don't pay attention to the record. They're playing better. They're making steps to improve. We don't think Adam Gays is going to be there next year. I really think what the Jets do this off season will determine whether or not that Trevor Lawrence situation, plays out if they end up with the number one overall pick, obviously.

Like, we're assuming they're going to lose most of the rest of their games and be the worst team and at the top of the draft. But it is an interesting situation when you look at the front office and how they are set up with a cat. So the Cowboys are trying to stay positive despite starting two and five and suffering many key injuries. But Michael Irvin is not so optimistic. Made a bold statement about the state of his former team.

I believe the Cowboys right now may be the worst team in the national football league. I don't even know how to explain this. This is just an all-time low. I know the Jets look bad, but the Jets were expecting to look bad. The Cowboys had people really think, and include myself that they were ready to be Super Bowl bound, and they'd been a Superbus. Yeah, Nick Wright liked him. I just, there were an 8-and-8 team to me. I don't see it. I picked the Cowboys to go to the Super Bowl last year, but that was also me kind of trying to manifest the best Super Bowl of all time for Fox because we had it. But that is, uh, that is, I still think that they will win the division.

This weekend, obviously, is a big game for them, as is every game now at this point, if they're trying to win their division, which is not an accomplishment this year. Like, whoever wins that, like, congrats. You won the NFC East. It's the worst division in football. But depending on what team does it, what does it look like? Like, to me, the Cowboys winning the NFC East might not actually be the best thing, because then you might get convinced if you're in the building that you're doing the right thing.

Best thing is trade one of those receivers by Tuesday. That's the best thing to do. I don't think that they will, but I completely agree with you. You have a surplus there. Make some moves. Yeah. And if it's tomorrow, you clear some cap space next year. Good stuff. Joy with the news.

Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Herd Line News. Why won't the Cowboys make a move? It's Jerry. I've got some thoughts on that coming up. Want more Herd? The Herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week, within the I-Hard Radio app.

Search Herd to listen live or on demand. whenever you'd like. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me,

Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement

to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment,

and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it.

including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 was big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack, so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now, so... Thank you for finishing that sentence.

Yes, I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years. for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host,

and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing

and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough because people scoreboard watch life becomes about wins and losses Steve Burns Dustin Ross because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth or are you a good person because you're afraid because that's two different intentions bro absolutely and that that's two different levels of trust I want you to just really be a good person Join me, Keir Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app, search Learn the Hardway, and listen now. He's a former NFL scout with three different teams, the Ravens, the Eagles, and the Brown.

He's now a cuddler analyst on the Chargers Radio Network, so he gets Justin Herbert up front and personal. His name is Daniel Jeremiah. He is now joining us live. Thursday night football tonight. Falcons Panthers. He's on with Joy Taylor and Bucky Brooks as well. He's one of the guys I lean on. All right. So Justin Herbert, Joy and I watch the Rose Bowl and we're like, how come everybody's picking this kid apart? Big smart, strong, big lively arm. Are you shocked as a former scout for three teams, how good Herbert is now? Yeah, I'm shocked, Colin. I mean, I thought, look, he had those tools that you talk about. I thought they cut him loose a little bit as a runner in that Rose Bowl game, which they didn't really do during the regular season.

I thought he had a chance to be a really good player, but I thought it was going to take some time to kind of develop him along the way, just in terms of getting him to be a little more aggressive. You know, sometimes when you have a defensive coordinator or an offensive line coach as a head coach in college, it's run the ball. We're going to run the ball. We're going to play great defense.

Protect the ball. Don't be too risky. Let's be a little bit cautious. They take away a little bit of your stinger. Well, he's been in full-blown attack mode since he got to the Chargers. And, you know, to do what he's doing right now and who he's done it against? I mean, look at that, look at that Tampa defense. is doing to everybody else. He carved him up like a turkey in the first half of that game.

Yeah. So I had an epiphany last night. Tua is not big and not mobile. And outside of Drew Breeze, you generally in this league have to be one of the other. Fran Tarkin and Russell Wilson, small but ran. Same with Vic. 28 of the 30 best quarterbacks in league history are six, two and a half or over. I worry that Tua isn't big, isn't mobile, and I just fell in love with his personality, his composure. What are the chances he's just not going to be very good? Well, I mean, I want to see him play. I mean, let's get out there and see him play. The thing I like about Tua is his kind of superpower is just how fast he can process.

He's got a quick release, get the ball to your hand. So when we want guys that are undersized to be mobile in athletics because you've got to be able to create, you've got to be able to find space, you've got to be able to make things happen because there's going to be times where you don't see. But vision for him has been kind of the opposite. It's been something that's been his calling card. So you're going to get ready for RPO's, man. you're going to see a billion RPO's from the dolphins. He's going to ride the back and the ball's going to be gone. Yeah.

By the way, you know, every great coach has a weakness. And this is something I've been on, my buddy, Ryan Rosillo and I talk about, we've been talking about this for five years. Belichick, I've been told, in January, tells his scouting staff, I've got it from here. I'll take the draft over. That's what I've been told. Now, I don't think that's the way to do it. I want to talk to scouts until the last second I'm drafting.

But he hasn't had a pro bowler at a skill spot since Gronk, and he even e acknowledges because gronk was hurt in college that was a little bit of a lucky break is that what you're seeing without brady is they've got no speed they've got no receivers their tight ends aren't great some of this to me we can blame cam but is some of this belichick's weakness we've spotted it offensive skill people it's just not very good at drafting them well i think we've used the phrase or i've used the phrase with tom brady that sometimes he can be the febriese I mean, he can make all the smell go away. And he can cover up a lot of issues on your roster.

And right now, what you're seeing is you've got guys that can't separate. So the windows are so incredibly small. And Tom was so comfortable and used to throwing in those tight windows. That's the way he's lived. And so to come in as a quarterback from the outside, not just Camp Newton, it would have been anybody that came in there. Man, to tell yourself that this guy's open when he's really not open, that's going to be challenging for anybody to do.

And so, yeah, I agree with you. They haven't had a great success in terms of finding those guys, but between Belichick and Brady, they've been able to kind of get around it. And now you're seeing what just one of the two gone, you know, the argument, whether it's Brady or Bill, I mean, at the end of the day, you need both of them to be able to cover up some of the roster issues they've had. Listen, I said, you cannot have the fourth best quarterback in a division. You don't have to have the best quarterback. But if you have the fourth best quarterback, you got it's time to get in the phone,

call your scouts and find another quarterback. I watched Burrow and Baker last week, and everybody goes, oh, Baker was great, and I'm like, timeout. Burrow had no running game. He's got a bottom five offensive line. He's a rookie with no training camp or preseason. The fact that Baker had to keep taking the lead from him, I was actually blown away with Joe Burrell because he's got nothing to work with.

And I know Baker, everybody thinks I hate Baker. He played well too. I'm not disputing that. But I know what he had to work with. I'm blown away by Burrow. I watched that last week. I watched that and I thought, this kid is, I don't know what he is, but this is amazing. When you watch, when you watch Burrow, is Baker now the fourth best quarterback in his division?

Yeah, you know, I think you'd have to say that. Now, the thing is, obviously Pittsburgh, we're getting towards the end of Ben. So, I mean, maybe Baker have a chance to move up a spot once Ben moves on. But, yeah, I mean, I thought Burrow was a better player coming out of college. I think Burroughs has shown more in his brief time than even Baker at his best. We saw him early on. Burrow is doing some things that Baker just, he can't do. It's because Burrow is able to get deeper in progressions.

He's able to do it quickly. Burroughs a better athlete than Baker to be able to extend plays. He's stronger. I mean, Burrow doesn't have a huge arm. I'd say Baker has a stronger arm than Joe, but he's just physically stronger inside the pocket. And you've seen him, you know, look, he's taken what he's done at LSU and he's carried it right over to Cincinnati. And the question was, well, when you don't have better players and everybody else you're playing

against how you're going to do. and he's got them competitive each and every week, which is no small feat. Probably take Trevor Lawrence over Sam Darnel. If you're the Jets, I get it. I totally do. But my question is, the Colts may go after a quarterback. Would you give Donald another chance in the NFL if they move him? If you're the Colts and Chris Ballard and you've got a lot of good stuff here,

but you're not remotely athletic at quarterback in a league where that is now more important. Do you think he's a guy that can work Donald somewhere else? I would do it in nanosecond. I would do it in an absolute nanosecond. If I was the Colts, if I was the Saints, if I was the Steelers, I would do it. I would do it if I was the 49ers, even with Jimmy Garoppolo. I would do it with those teams because where those teams are going to be traditionally picking, you're never going to see anybody like Sam Darnold.

Sam Darnold is younger than Joe Burrow. I mean, he's just been in the NFL for a little while now. He's got some experience in a really tough situation. So I know that, I know Adam Schaefter talked about the fact that he didn't think that Sam would fetch a one if they did end up taking Lawrence with the first. pick. I just can't see those teams picking in the bottom of the first round with aging quarterbacks are going to have any better options than Sam Donald. So I absolutely think the Jets could get a one for him, which then if you're the Jets, if you take Lawrence, you're going

to have four of the top 33 picks in the draft. You can change your team real quick. Yeah. He was a scout for the Eagles and the Ravens and the Browns. NFL network analyst, host of Move the Sticks podcast, lean on him a lot and he works with Joy on Thursday night football. They'll be doing their thing tonight. Daniel, it's great seeing you. Colin, I just want to tell you one thing. I talked to Clatt yesterday before he went on. And as calm, cool and collected as he might be on the show, he's so nervous. I feel like I'm trying to give him inspiration and fire him up and you can do this.

You're going to be fine. And then he shows up and he's got all the poise and the confidence. But I'm just telling you, it's a little bit of a facade. I want you to know that. Yeah, yeah. We all know that with Joe Clatt. It's obviously, I am his mentor and he needs to seek more wisdom from me. Daniel Jeremiah, great stuff.

If you're not ready to give up, want to feel more engaged, strong and driven. visit mDrive4men.com today and also time to change your cell phone to Pure Talk USA. Unlimited text, unlimited talk, two gigs of data. 20 bucks a month. Just grab your mobile phone now unless you're driving. Dial pound 250 and say my name Colin Coward. Dial pound 250 and say Colin Coward. Walker Bueller or the Dodgers. How about that last hour of the herd? Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced game. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast, Superhuman, documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all?

You're listening to Learn the Hard Way with your favorite therapist and host Kier Games. is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor? It signals to the world that you're not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to, listen to learn the hard way on the IHard radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep. That's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators,

and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Talk. This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human.