The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 11/05/2020 - HOUR 2 - Zeke, moving on

Episode Date: November 5, 2020

Ezekiel Elliott is another reason why you shouldn't overpay for RBsColin has giving up on OBJ and Drew Brees,Guests: Greg Cosell, Joe Thomas Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the I Heart Radio app,

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And I have these lists and weird things I do. Whatever, it's weird. Everybody's got a weird thing. I got a weird thing. I've always had kind of this belief. I've always wanted to be an NFL general manager, and I have certain rules of the draft. One of the rules I've always had in the draft.

I'm not sure if I've mentioned. on this before or not, I would draft a running back at least minimum every other year, but never in the first two rounds. So Seattle drafted Rashad Penny a couple years ago, and I said, this is a terrible draft pick. It's been a total bust. I do not believe you draft a running back. I mean, Herschel Walker, maybe he arrives today.

You're like, okay, that doesn't look like anybody I've ever seen that's ever played the position. But my rule in the NFL draft is you draft a running back at least every other year. because remember one out of three you're just going to bust and you never draft before the second round you draft third fourth fifth sixth seventh and why because in the NFL i believe there's four positions you have to pay you have to pay a great quarterback you have to pay a great left tackle you have to pay a great pass rusher and then you're either going to have to pay a great corner or an errand Donald a fletcher cox an interior lineman so save your money for the four guys you don't have to pay anybody else.

Now, increasingly, wide receiver is, you may have to spend some money. But I think the big four contracts are quarterback left tackle, pass rusher, an elite pass rusher, and probably an interior defensive lineman or a corner. If you have an elite pass rusher, you maybe not have to pay your DT. You can pay your corner. But you're going to have to somebody you can lock out, you know, a Stefan, even Belichick pays Stefan Gilmore. So that means I got to get breaks other places.

and a prime example is when Ezekiel Elliott wanted his contract. I talked to two general managers who said, you never sign a running back to a second contract. You just don't. You just keep drafting them. You get trapped. Well, right now with Zeke, he does not look the same. He's averaging like three and a half yards of carry.

Troy Aikman on Dallas Radio talked about it. Zeke, is he wearing down? He talked about it this week. Dallas on first and second down runs the ball, the second least amount in the NFL, which I find interesting. I know that there's games when you get behind, but for the season to be second on early downs, on running downs, you know, when they have been built to run the ball,

and that was the commitment they made, both in the offensive line and at running back, that surprised me a little bit. But yeah, I think that the wear and tear, he's a physical runner. He runs as hard as anybody that I've at, but, you know, that begins to take a toll, and it starts to happen about this time. Four years ago, they beat the Steelers.

I want to show you a video. I apologize to the radio audience. Look at how fast Zeke is. Look at the holes. This says a lot about what's happened to Dallas. Zeke is pulling away from people. He is not touched on this play. He is running away from DBs and linebackers.

The holes are massive. Again, this is not all on Zeke. Look at these holes. This against the Steelers, by this against a Mike Tomlin defense on the road when there were fans, hard to audible. I mean, it's just massive holes. Nobody is touching him. Nobody's touching him on these plays.

And then you look at him now, and I know I just take clips, but we go back and look this morning at the averages, and a lot of this is the offensive line, but he doesn't look the same. He doesn't have the burst or the escapeability. He goes down easier. His fumbles have gone up. He's just not as explosive. And again, the offensive line right now looks like it's backups to backup sometimes,

but even earlier this year. when it wasn't all injured. So, you know, it goes back to everybody was clamoring for him to get paid. And people were saying, do not give, this was my knock. I don't believe in paying people two years in advance. I'll pay you a year early if you're a quarterback, a left tackle, you're Aaron Donald, Khalil Max, Stefan Gilmore. Like, I get that argument.

But this is the argument is that if you, by the second contract, running backs fall off a cliff. I've seen this my entire life. You're very good. and then by year four, that's why running backs, by the way, want to sign early contracts. They want to get paid because I think the drop-off for Zeke is significant. When I watch him play, Goulet, you're a cowboy fan. You watch him play.

You live for, does he look like the same running back? Nope. He erodes a little bit each year. Every year. And it's finally hit a point where you're like, oh, he's not great anymore. He's just good. That's what he is. And you're paying him great money.

And I think in the NFL, you can only pay four people that. The wide receivers now have increasing value, but you can find him anywhere, so you've got to be careful, but they do matter. All right, Greg Kosell joining me, as he always does on third day, 41 years, working at NFL films, the most objective guy out there via the Coward Global Satellite Network. So, we got into this discussion this morning, Greg, about when it comes to young quarterbacks, I don't really pay attention too much to Winds or stats. And I don't think Joe Burrell has a great arm. I think it's pretty average. But there's something about him. I don't know if it's his calmness.

He just tends to throw it to the right place. He doesn't have great protection. So you tell me what does the film say about him? Where's the special sauce? What is he doing to move the ball so well? Well, it's funny you say that, Colin, because that was the one thing when I evaluated him coming out of LSU that I said that the only knock against him is he does not really have a big arm.

And he certainly doesn't. And every once in a while you see that pop up on certain throws. But he's incredibly refined in his understanding of where to go with the ball, what he's looking at both pre-snap and post-snap. Therefore, he plays with a very nuanced sense of rhythm and timing for a young quarterback. And he has movement ability. We normally don't think of him as a guy who makes second reaction plays. And in fact, this offense is really built with the amount of empty snap.

that they play on the desire to get the ball out of his hands quickly. But he does have very, very good movement skill. You know, we used to say he's a deceptibly good athlete. We should just say he's a good athlete. So he's really has every trait I think you would look for other than the fact that he's not going to drive the football with tremendous velocity. So you told us last week on Lamar Jackson, Greg, you said, listen, the NFL, the guy, the coordinators are saying, throw outside the numbers.

We're just going to blanket it. We're going to drop seven into coverage, eight, prove that you can do it. So against Pittsburgh, he had a lot of turnovers. What did you see with Lamar against the Steelers? It's a great question because I watched that tape. And, you know, it's a very interesting conversation about the changing nature of the quarterback position, Colin. I know you've talked about it a lot.

And, you know, what are quarterbacks now in the NFL? Do you need movement ability? A lot of people would say yes. But then what's the balance between that and being efficient from the pocket? And right now he's not very efficient from the pocket. He's a little frenetic. He's a little undisciplined. He's not seeing things.

There are throws to be made. There were in the Pittsburgh game. There are throws to be made that he did not turn it loose because now he tends to move prematurely. Now, will he make some otherworldly plays because he's got that kind of athletic ability? absolutely. And that's why the question of where is the balance is a good one and an important one as we go forward in evaluating quarterbacks. But I'm still a believer that you can't leave throws on the field. And, you know, in an era where everybody's putting up big numbers throwing the football, it took him until the final drive to get to 200 yards. And it would have been the fifth game in a row

that he had not thrown for 200 passing yards. So right now I think he's probably trying to figure that out as well because he knows he can make plays with his legs. But it doesn't always work. Yeah. So I think the Colts are a good football team that have a very low ceiling at quarterback. They probably have the worst athlete in the NFL at a position that increasingly asked for a little athleticism. But it's funny about their defense.

Is it good or is Darius Leonard the best linebacker in football? Because when Leonard's out, it doesn't feel the same. And when he's in, he's just a, I mean, he's like a magnet to the ball. So what do you make? What do you make of the Colts, their defense, Leonard? What do you make? Because that's the way they're going to get into the playoffs. It's not going to be because they're wildly explosive offensively.

No. And I think their defense in some ways, and I know they have DeForest Buckner, but I think in some ways it's probably a little similar to the San Francisco 49ers defense from a year ago. It's kind of built on their front four. It's a very good front four with a. bunch of names other than Buckner and of course Houston is still there, but they've got some other very good players to Nico Autry. Grover Stewart is a nose who's a very, very good player when you

watch the tape. They don't blitz very much at all. As most teams do nowadays, they mix man in zone, but it's a coverage-based defense, and that's the way they play. And Leonard is a great player. He's an explosive athlete at the linebacker position. So the question ultimately becomes offensive what can they do as they continue to play games and play ideally important games because defense, hey, everybody wants a great defense, but we know that when you start playing really, really good offenses, sometimes you give up points. I mean, look what happened in the Super Bowl with the Niners last year. They played great defense for three and a half quarters, and then all of a sudden, a really good offense was able to make some plays against them.

So we get into this discussion. I said in the offseason, Drew Locke, I think has it. But I've also said you cannot have the fourth best quarterback in a division. He's not Mahomes. I don't think he has the talent of Herbert. And Derek Carr throws a wonderfully accurate football. I watch Drew Locke, and I'm not into the dance and stuff. I've never been into that. Like win a few games before, you know, you're Michael Jackson.

Like settle down and win games. But I watch him, and there's moments. And then I watch him against the chargers. And I say to myself, wait a minute, he wasn't good in the first three quarters. They go to a package. They take the pressure off. He's got a clean pocket. everybody in the NFL that's reasonably good is good then.

What is the films? Because I think John Elway looks at this and thinks, oh, God, I got Herbert now twice a year. I got Mahomes twice a year. Who is Drew Locke on film? Well, I think he's very talented with some things that need to be worked on. And let's remember one thing, Colin. We live in a world where we want to make a definitive decision about a player literally after he, you know, he plays five minutes.

This guy has started, what, 10, 11 games in his NFL career? He was hurt this year, so he's, in a sense, starting from scratch. He's capable of outstanding throws. I mean, that deep dig he threw to Judy in the fourth quarter last week was a big-time NFL throw. Now, he's a kid who still drifts a bit in the pocket. He'll still throw some balls off balance. I think that his decision-making at times needs work.

His ability to eliminate what is there and what's not there is still needs work, but there's a lot to work with. And I'd like to see him be able to play, you know, seven, eight, nine, ten games in a row with the same cast and see how it plays out. Because there is a high-level talent there. And you see the big time throws. And he does have movement ability. He's a pretty good athlete. All right.

So we know a lot about Green Bay. And here's something I've been on. Joey and I have talked about this a lot in the last year. The minute somebody gets physical with them, the Niners, the Eagles last year at Lambo, the Chargers. pass rush, Tampa Bay. They're a frontrunner. They are great in the octagon as long as they can control the fight. They're great with a lead.

But there's something about this defense. It evaporates quick. And the holes this way, it just wasn't Delvin Cook. The holes were so substantial. So what is it? Bad linebacker play, bad schemes. What's wrong with the Packers defense? Well, this week was very specific.

And I say that because Mike Petten is their defensive coordinator. And he likes to play, and this is when they're at their best, when they play in what we call their sub-defences, five defensive backs, six defensive backs. When you play Minnesota, by the way, as was the case in the playoffs last year against the 49ers, when you make them play in their base defense, because Minnesota lines up with multiple tight-end sets and a fullback.

So Green Bay played in their base 3-4 defense. and they don't want to play in that defense, and they're not very good in it. And that's what happened last week. So not every team, by the way, can line up and do what Minnesota did or the 49ers did in the playoffs last year. Yeah. So that's just a bad matchup for them. And it happens in the NFL. It's a bad matchup, a physical team that can do multiple tight ends, put them in their base.

It's a bad spot for Green Bay. Absolutely. All right. We know that there's things you like about Tua. I know that. There's things I like about him. Did you see anything? I know it's a start, but boy, he looked a little small.

Anything you saw in the film and you're like, I don't love that. I don't love that. You know what? Let's be a little realistic. He didn't have to do much. He was not asked to make any tough downfield throws. But my sense was that he sees things quickly. I think he knows where to go with the ball.

That will be tested more obviously as he plays more. not every game's going to turn out like the Rams game. I did think that his 15-yard completion to Grant on the first quarter touchdown drive showed Tua reading the field because that play design was the post-corner combination to his left. And the defense took that away and he came all the way back to his right within the timing of the drop and he hit Grant for 15 yards. So it was a small sample size, but I think he did okay. All right.

I want to go to your Drew Breeze, and I've said this, I don't buy the Saints. I think there's a way Drew Breeze can win now, but I don't think their defenses is good. He doesn't throw it over the top. I feel he's very, you know, this will sound outrageous, but I don't think he's that far from Teddy Bridgewater. And that's why when he left last year, Bridgewater looked a lot like him. I think they're very similar at this point in Drew's career. So what is he? And then we'll move into the play of the week.

What is he at this point? He definitely doesn't throw a call on your right the way he used to. that's noticeable on a number of throws. The ball just doesn't come out real well. And on occasion now, he's a little bit inaccurate with certain throws that you know he used to make without a problem. So he's not the same quarterback, and therefore their offense is different. And we'll see how far it can take them. And they're obviously going to be playing a buck defense this week that is very aggressive. They blitz. They get people clean to the quarterback, which you don't see very often in the NFL. But say what you want about Breeze. Sean Payton is a very, very good schemer of offense in getting people open. And that's

essentially the play I want to show in a close game with the Bears last week. He had a touchdown to Jared Cook, which came one play after he missed a wide open Jared Cook on a ball that he wouldn't miss in a hundred years. So let's take a look at this touchdown to Jared Cook that came at the end of the first half. And again, it just looks like pitch and catch right here. And it became pitch and catch because of the design. They're going to go trips to the wide side of the field and tight trips. Everybody inside the numbers. The three receivers are there.

They're going to have Smith, the inside receiver on an overrout. That will eat up the safety. Then you're going to have Carr, who's number two to trips. He works to the flat and that eats up the flat defender. So what do you end up with? And you're going to see this as it plays out. And it's going to end up with Cook, working against an outside leverage corner, but it's the design of this.

There's Smith taking the safety with him. There's car expanding the flat defender. So what do you get? Cook one-on-one with an outside leverage corner because Cook was initially lined inside the numbers. So this was beautiful design to create a throw call on that. I dare say you could probably have made. Barely. All right, Greg Kosel, 41 years, NFL films on a Thursday, as always.

Great seeing you. Thanks, Con. Appreciate it. You bet. Some thoughts on NBA season is going to be December 22nd. It sounds like that's the day. We don't have a president yet. What is O'Dell Beckham at this point in his career?

Andrew Barry, the GM in Cleveland talked about that. All coming up. Don't go anywhere, not even halfway home yet. One more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week, within the IHeart Radio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not.

only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win. A win is a win. I don't care. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media.

Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports. and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported

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I'm Sam Jek. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day

but just so y'all know I mean at this point this is the second episode where we've discussed crack so I'm starting to see there's a through line We also have AIDS on the table right now

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So Aaron doesn't have any of his running backs and San Francisco doesn't have anybody, period. So Green Bay is going to win this football game. The question is, what will it look like? I have a feeling it's a blowout tonight. Green Bay is going to... I don't know. I mean, it's still Shantahan. I know.

But Shannan has a bad record when Jimmy G's not around. San Francisco is very interesting, Joy. The bottom line is you can like, I like Jimmy Garapolo, but you can't keep going back to something that doesn't, you know, I mean, again, you're in a relationship. The person cheats on you. You go back again. They cheat on you.

If you go back a third time, it's on you. Like it's sometimes shame on them. At some point, shame on you. Garopalo was hurt in New England. Okay, okay, aberration. first full year hurt in San Francisco. We're concerned, but it's not a trend. He's hurt again.

Now we've got a trend. Now it's time. I can't keep going back to it. So it's like, I believe in second chances, but this would be like, this would be like a third. And Kyle Shanahan's like, listen, man, I got a job. It's not like Shanahan would not get another job and he's got a long-term contract, but these games matter. The narrative on you in the NFL can go from, you're really good to, like Josh Allen.

I've watched them the last three weeks. and I'm like, I'm kind of out on him. Like, like, Blamar Jackson's MVP, now people are like, he can't throw up the sideline. Like, we have no patience for the quarterback position anymore. And not much for coaches either. I mean, we're, I mean, there's some. Look how quickly everyone turned on Sean McVeigh.

Oh, my God. I mean, two years ago, if you bumped into him at a food court, you got a head coaching job. Yeah. Literally. If, literally, if you were in a selfie with Sean at Starbucks, you're like, that guy's coach of the Bengals. Now everybody's like, yeah, he's got kind of a, you can figure it out.

He likes golf way more than he should. So, you know, to me, if you're Shanahan, I think you just have to at some point, like Peter King said yesterday. He took the, they played Green Bay in the playoffs last year. He threw eight times. That's like Mike Zimmer and Kirk cousins. Mike Zimmer's telling you, I just don't want him to throw. So at that point, I like Garoppolo, but after that game, I can no longer,

I'm on a losing side. The coach doesn't want him to throw. It doesn't matter what I say as a TV guy. Joy with the News. No, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. Also, availability, I think, is a skill.

Hey. Like, it's no one's fault you get injured. Certain people take care of their body better than other people, and that may play a role in it. But some people are just injury prone, and once that's the book on you, it's very hard to get away from that. Okay, prime example. The knock on Aaron Rogers has been by Packer fans, he holds the ball too long. He's had more injuries. The knock on Eli was he threw too many picks.

Why? Because he never held the ball. So Eli never got hurt. Eli had an absolute skill. He just let go with the ball. Now, you got more picks with him, but you got two Super Bowls. So to your point is, the knock on Aaron has been he holds it too long. If you go look at the last collarbone injury, he's rolling out.

Dude, get it out, throw it out. So to his first NFL start wasn't grand, even though the dolphins got the win. He was hit by Aaron Donald and fumbled on his first dropback. of the game last week, and the offensive line wants to step up for their rookie quarterback. God Solomon Kinley said he and his teammates are making a point of giving to a better chance this week at Arizona, and they want to be perfect for him. Fascinating game. The offensive line ranks 26th and pass blocking in 31st.

No, it's bad. It's the weakness of the team. By the way, I love Arizona in this game. It is the weakness for Miami their O line. Well, the Cardinals' defense is ninth in points allowed per game at 20.9 and tied for 22nd and yards allowed per game, 378.4. They do have two rookies starting on the offensive line this year, Solomon Kinley and Robert Hunt. Ted Karras is in his fifth year. Eric Flowers in his sixth year at left guard and Jesse Davis, his fourth year at left tackle.

So the relatively young offensive line. No. But I do like that he said this and that this is a focus of theirs. I mean, sometimes, you know, you just need to get a little bit of. rhythm going and flow. I would argue that if you like who you're blocking for, two is incredibly likable. Everybody loves him.

He ingratiates himself to any kind of person. It's not like Jay Cutler. After a while, I was wondering if guys were like, you know, why don't you step right on by me and take him out? Like, there are guys that you won't hold that block for quite as long. I mean, I don't like to get too far into the, like, emotion of it and like drive and you know the relationships and all that you're talking about but there is something to it i mean there is something to in the heat of competition like the man next to you

and the man that you're guarding like you have a little bit more of a relationship with it might make you play a little bit harder now i'm not saying that they weren't playing hard for Fitzpatrick like but as a team he is a leader and tangibles matter we know that so i i'm really interested in these next two games for the dolphins like we've all had All of the critique that we've had of two in one game to be measured up against his peers in the next two games could go one way or the other for two of very quickly. We've all had bosses or parents we don't want to disappoint. There's no question we can be. Our effort and our focus can be affected by who we're performing for.

Yeah. There's no doubt. So the Packers are likely to go into tonight's game against the 49ers without their top three running backs. Aaron Rogers, though, is confident they'll find other ways to win. Well, I think as a competitor, you're always excited about the challenges. You love having your guys in there full strength for sure. But, yeah, there is that fun challenge going in there without some of those guys and trying to find a way to win. I think that's the beauty.

And what Matt and the offensive staff has done this year is just find creative ways to get our best guys in the field and put them in a position is to get the ball in space. No different this week. So A.J. Dillon and Jamal Williams are on the COVID list. Aaron Jones is questionable with a calf injury. So Tyler Irvin and Dexter Williams are the two running backs left. They're fine. If you make an NFL roster, last week was Seattle, they had DJ Dallas, a rookie from Miami, the Hurricanes.

He was their fourth running back. And I was like, he made a, I think he had a blocking mistake. But I was like, if that's the fourth best running back for Seattle, DJ Dallas, I'm like, he can play. He had a nice catchy. If that's the fourth best running back a team has DJ Dallas and these guys for Green Bay can, play a little. Well, I mean, to Aaron's point, like, it's an offensive staff. You know what the situation is. This isn't like a surprise to you. So you try to do the best you can to put your the guys that you have with the skills that they have and in the best opportunity to succeed.

Now, luckily for Green Bay, unfortunately for the 49ers, 49ers have no one. Like, they are decimated with injuries on top of losing skill positions to the COVID list. So this is going to be, I don't know what to expect tonight. because I just have this weird. I know you think it's going to be a blowout, but I just have this weird feeling about. Well, if I'm the Niners, I want to make it totally ugly. Yeah.

I just want to make it, I want to have Mullins. I want to run the ball. I will say this. San Francisco's offensive line is pretty good. Two really good tackles. And so Mullins will, and Green Bay's pass rush is hit and miss. Their linebackers are average. You could see a game in which Shanahan uglies it up.

They run the ball. And they just play a little bit of keepaway. but at the end, Aaron's going to get too many opportunities. Trent Williams is not not playing. Oh, he's on the COVID list. Well, forget what I just said. Well, I mean, but it is a low-key kind of pride game for San Francisco. Because, I mean, their season is essentially over.

And it's not, again, not any. Well, it will be after tonight. Not anyone's fault. Right. But, you know, this is a rematch. And so there could be a little bit of emotion going in there. And I know the Shanahan is going to game plan for that as well. So JJ Watt has been one of the stars in Houston since he was drafted in 2011.

and he's experienced some success as a Texan, but the team is in a down year and fired Bill O'Brien. And Watt is frustrated about the possibility of being stuck in a rebuild. Thank you. He said, I don't think it's any secret that I don't have 10 years left in this league. I personally believe that I do have a few more great ones left in me. I'm not looking to rebuild. I'm looking to go after a championship and that's what I want to do.

So whatever is in the best interest of the Houston Texans, that's in the best interest of myself. This is, to me, I just don't. Thank God, J.J. Watt gets it. Like, this is the, if I ran the, okay, I want to be a GM, I run the Houston Texans. I move him. I would have moved him at the trading deadline. You move him to somebody.

Because I think Seattle, if you gave him to Seattle this morning, I picked them to win the Super Bowl. That's because I'm not looking for 10 years. I'm looking for the rest of this year and next year. I just don't think that Seattle has any cap space. because they're paying Jamal and Bobby and Russell Wilson. They got heavy at the top. But this is to me what they need in Houston,

draft picks and cap space. And you can get both moving JJ Y. And he could also, he's been too great of a player. I want to see him on a great team in a playoff game. Yes. And I like that he is not, he's not romantically tied to the Texans. Because I get that.

I always understand that. But to your point, JJ Y is an all-time great player. Can we just see him in an opportunity where he's going to at least have an opportunity to win a championship? And it's no, you know, it's something about the Texans, particularly like things just played out the wrong way. I don't think that Bill O'Brien was a terrible coach. They had some success there. I just think he took on more than he needed to or the more than he should have. They have their quarterback of the future.

You have a couple pieces. So just it is, he's right. It's a rebuild. You know, I'll tell you a team, this doesn't make any sense, but I'll just throw it out there. L.A. Chargers. I got to face Mahomes twice a year. I've got Ingram. I've got Bosa.

I don't know if they can afford to pay Ingram forever. I'd go get J.J. Y.J. Y. Y'J. Y'A. Y'A. Y'J. Y'A. Wohom. You're not going to be, if you want to win shootouts with Mahomes, it can sound fun. But the one way to change that rivalry is J.J. Watt, Bosa, and Ingram. The best pass Russian football, that's what kept Mahomes down for three quarters in the Super Bowl. If I'm the Chargers, already like their defensive front. I bring in Watt. I bring him in for a year

and a half and I say, we're going to change the dynamic of the Mahomes games. Is that I got a kid that can win a shootout, but now we're going to have the best offensive line in football if it made financial sense. Well, step one is winning your division. So with Mahomes in your division, that should be your number one priority.

Well, when you had Peyton Manning or Brady in your division, I mean, the way to beat Peyton Manning was always edge rusher. The way to beat Brady, that's why Buffalo overpaid for Mario Williams. It's why the Jets, everybody built a defensive line for 20 years against New England. The only way you're going to beat him. Who's that?

Jason Taylor. Jason Taylor. So to me, with Mahomes, it's like, that's why the Raiders, when they beat the Chiefs, it's great. But you've got to have somebody beyond Max Crosby that can rush the Pashor. Otherwise, Mahomes is going to be scoring 36 against you for the next 10 years. And if you can't do that back, you have no chance. That's right. Yeah.

Joy with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Heard Lye News. One of the five best left tackles of all time. He played for the Cleveland Browns. Not a lot of winning teams, but it wasn't on Joe Thomas. Odell Beckham Jr., the GM's talking about him.

Baker Mayfield, the team is talking about him. I still see the Browns as a playoff team. I do. I think it's now becoming the best division in football because Cincinnati's not even an easy out. I think the NFC West and the AFC North, it's just nothing but talent. I think those are the two most talented divisions in football, Joe Thomas, The All-Pro multiple times will be a first ballot Hall of Famer joining us next. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio,

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I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions,

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Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s.

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20 bucks a month. That's it. Grab your phone, mobile phone, dial pound 250, and say my name. Colin Coward and you're good. So this is interesting. I didn't grow up in a world of nostalgia. Okay? I didn't. So I'm not a romantic that way. Like I don't have baseball cards and I didn't go to church as a kid.

I didn't go to a same camp every year. And it was interesting. I'm a West Coast kid. When I moved east and I lived in Connecticut, you're around Boston, great history in Hartford and New York. these and it was really fascinating it was kind of a turn on i would watch these people who grew up and they went to the same summer camp for 30 years and they had the same address for 40 years and the same church for 40 years and they went to the same vacation place on cape cod for 30 years that is not me so so those kind of people always loved i always thought love baseball because

baseball is all about romanticizing the past that's why so many northeast people because the history of the Northeast is so rich. It is so inarguable. It is so rich. The same camp, the same summer home, the same church, the same friends. Your grandpa goes to a college, then dad goes to it, and then you go to it, and then your kids go to it. So I'm not a nostalgia person. I've moved off Drew Brees. I've moved off OBJ. He's missed 30 games. He's hurting expensive. But I do get where a lot of people are still holding on to the OBJ thing and the Drew Breese thing. But it's funny. My life experience is why. I just move off people. I'm not as loyal as other sports fans. Like the minute I see, you know,

Russell Will still twist an ankle in five years. Boom, I'm done. I can still like as a friend, but I'm not nostalgic that way. It's not how I was raised. It's not the environment I had. Joe Thomas is one of the best left tackles in the history of football. His first 10 years in the NFL, he was a pro bowler all 10 years. He's going to get into the Hall of Fame and he is now joining us live. So it is funny. You know, my thing with OB, I'm not a romantic, because I didn't grow up with that, right? And so I look at OBJ. and I'm like, he's hurt a lot, he's expensive, and in New York and Cleveland, I don't think he made the teams necessarily better. I just thought he was great. But I know there are people,

do you feel this morning in Cleveland, is there a loyalty to him to the Browns and to the Brown fan base, or do you think a lot of people are like, hey, man, it's over, it didn't work? I think there's a little bit of a loyalty thing with the Browns, because I think you've seen the best version of Odell Beckham with the Cleveland Browns from a personality and a buy-in a team standpoint. And I don't think that was the guy that you saw when he was with the Giants. And so I think in Cleveland, they really feel like Odell has put his heart and soul into the Brown's team into his performance. Now, it's come up short, certainly of where the expectations were when they traded for him. But they definitely feel like there's a little bit of loyalty built

in there because Odell really has poured a lot of himself emotionally into this Browns franchise. I do think, Joe, that you have to, in the NFL, for instance, When Peyton Manning was in the AFC South, everybody in the division went out and tried to get pass rushers. Because you knew you were going to face Peyton for 10 years, right? Like that's the reality of it. Big Ben is in your division, you better get pass rushers because if you give him time. And so I do look at the Cleveland Browns. And Joe Burrow has been better than I would have ever imagined.

Does it make Cleveland a tad nervous knowing now he got Ben twice a year, now Lamar twice a year? Oh my God, Burrow looks like a star. could that end up not being helpful to Baker Mayfield going forward that you can't win your division if you have the fourth best quarterback, right? Well, I think it certainly puts a lot more pressure on Baker Mayfield because for a while there, it was always like, okay, yeah, we know the Bengals are kind of that team in the AFC North that you're going to be able to beat him if you play decent football. And now all of a sudden they've got this quarterback who's playing really good football

and whose sky is really the limit at this point. And so for Baker, now he's got to be on his best game when they go against the Bengals in order to get that victory. And you've got to assume if the trend line heads in the same direction for Joe Burrow, that he's going to be one of these Pro Bowl type guys just probably by next season. And so I think for Baker Mayfield to have Big Ben, Lamar Jackson, and now one of the best young quarterbacks in the NFL also in your division, that certainly puts a lot of pressure on him being at his best every single week because you're going to play those teams in your division two times every single season. and then if you get to the playoffs, a lot of times you might even see them again there. You did not mess a single game in your career until your final year. And I've always thought that some people, I've covered pro and college teams and NBA teams, some guys get hurt.

And I like Jimmy Garofalo, but he got hurt in New England. And he got hurt in San Francisco. And he's hurt again. And Joe, you've been around this league. Some guys, they just, the DNA genetic, they get hurt more. Like I think in San Francisco this morning, Joe, you're not going to say it publicly, but I think you got to move on in that division with Russell Wilson and Kyler. I mean, you look at Garapolo.

Isn't he now an injury-prone player? Well, I think you have to be realistic if you're the 49ers, right? Jimmy G's been great for them when he's been available. He's 22 and 8 as the starter, took him to the Super Bowl, and they were right on the cusp of being Super Bowl champions. He may have been the MVP, but when you look at a quarterback, You've got to have that guy in the field. He's by far the most important position on the field.

And availability a lot of times is the most important ability when you're talking about that quarterback position because you can't put a ton of resources in the backup quarterback position. And no matter who you put back there, a lot of times you're not going to be able to continue the same performance on offense with the backup. And so for Jimmy G, while he has played well and he has led their team to a pretty solid record, and obviously they were expecting really big things from the,

this year, when you get injured over and over and over again and you have these wasted seasons like the Niners have had with Jimmy G, they've got to start asking the tough question. I think what they're going to do is they're going to use the rest of the season that they don't have Jimmy G here until he comes back from an ankle injury and kind of evaluate what that team looks like in his absence and try to figure out, hey, maybe there's an opportunity to upgrade in this offseason because they do have a front-loaded contract with Jimmy G. So they can get out from under that and they can dump him at the end of the season without huge cap implications.

And depending on where they are in the draft and depending on where the quarterbacks are at the end of this season, they might have an opportunity to make their team better with somebody else not named Jimmy G. You went through a lot of quarterbacks in Cleveland. Are you surprised how good Herbert is, Burrow is? Are you surprised? These guys didn't even have a training camp. They didn't have preseason.

I mean, Joe, you went through a lot of quarterbacks. Are you a little shocked by how good they are? Well, I'm surprised. and I'm a little jealous, right? I played for 20-some quarterbacks during my career. I played for all sorts of rookies. And hardly any of them, Eddie ever had the success that all these young guys are having this year.

And I would have bet my house without OTAs, without training camp, that all these young quarterbacks were going to struggle mightily, especially the guys that don't make the off-scheduled plays. Because when you're making off-scheduled plays like the Lamar Jackson, like the Russell Wilson, when he was a younger player, you can overcome not understanding what the, the scheme is on offense that you're trying to run.

You can overcome not being able to diagnose the blitzes and the coverages. Because if you run around long enough, somebody's going to get open and you can make a play. But a lot of these guys are making plays in the pocket, in rhythm. They're reading coverages. They're going through their progressions. They've really impressed me so far this season. And that was probably one of the big bright spots for the NFL is the performance of these rookie quarterbacks thus far in the NFL season.

I totally agree. Now, Joe is part of the NFL network. I'll watch him tonight. Packers, Niners. you're going to see him on the NFL network's Thursday night football crew, 730 Eastern kickoff. You do a great job, great sense of humor on that show. Joe, and we appreciate you stopping by today. Thanks for having me on, Colin.

You bet. No, I think it's just the whole BJ thing. I was saying this to the staff this morning. He reminds me a little of Derek Rose. So he comes in, we're all like, whoa, whoa, whoa, this guy is explosive. And then there's some injuries. And there's still something there, but now it's expensive and not available. and not quite as explosive, and people still love Derek Rose,

and people will love OBJ, and he'll come back and play. It's an ACL. He'll come back and play. But I do think is you have to be careful about nostalgia in pro football. You just got to be really careful about it. And I always thought when I lived out east, the reason baseball is so popular in the Northeast, because baseball is about history and tradition.

And the Northeast, it just blew me away, is so cool. The prep schools, the churches. There's nothing like it in the country. Like, you know, the Mains and the Vermont's. Like, I get why people in the Northeast love going to Fenway. It takes them back to their childhood. It takes them back to days with grandpa.

I'm from Seattle. Like, like, we had a baseball team. We lost it. We got it back. They're terrible. Like, we just, we don't have these prep schools and Hogwarts. And it's, you know, it's so, I didn't grow up in nostalgia. So I'm always kind of willing to just slay.

The guy was good. He's no longer good. Let's move on. OBJ will get another shot. He will. But I just don't think Cleveland fits. Brady Quinn, Notre Dame Clemson. We're talking about last hour.

Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy. Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between. songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or

wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me.

84's big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 8th. 80s. 84 was a wild year.

It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media.

Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.