The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 12/24/2020 - HOUR 1 - No More Being Nice to Giannis

Episode Date: December 24, 2020

Doug Gottlieb fills in for Colin Cowherd on this Christmas eve to talk about last night’s games in the NBA, including the Celtics taking down the Bucks in a thriller. Doug says if you combine Bucks F Giannis Antetokounmpo missed free throw, inability to come through in big games and his new super max contract, the media will flip on Giannis sooner rather than later like it has to so many other athlete's over the years who don't live up to expectations. Plus, former NBA Executive and currently with The Athletic John Hollinger joins Doug to discuss the mess going on in Houston with G James Harden, Lakers and much more! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hard Way with your favorite therapist and host, Kear Games.

This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor? It signals to the world that you're not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to. Listen to learn the hard way on the AHA radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 is big to me.

I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people.

Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening to The Heard podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday from 12 to 3 Eastern, 9 to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and FS1. Find your local station for the herd at Fox Sports Radio.com or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Herd. We're listening to Fox Sports Radio. What up? Welcome in. This is the herd. Wherever you may be, Utah, or however you may be listening to this show, he's not. Welcome in. I'm Doug Gottlie, filling in for Colin Cowher, Joy Taylor, alongside, and she came bearing gifts. I did. I brought Christmas cookies. Which she tried to convince me that calories don't count.

They don't. On the holiday season. Calories don't count on the holidays or the weekends. This is the radio-only version of the herd, which is disappointing on a multitude of levels. Probably mostly because Joy is bringing joy. She has reindeer. Can you hear my bells? I can't hear them. You can't hear them. Maybe they don't have the little...

Oh, they're just plastic, okay. Oh, you don't have the little... No, I tweeted out the... They're not actually bells. So they're more like ornaments. And she has a great, ugly Christmas sweater, which two chains gave you? Yes, two chains gave this to me. This is Dabin's San Francisco.

Santa. People don't dab anymore, but I've kept it for vintage purposes. Actually, they do dab. Now it's like a, it's like a sarcastic thing that kids do. I have, again, like I live, I understand that the new generation a lot more because of, so like my daughter Harper, she'll, when she'll do something, she'll dab, but it's out of like sarcasm. So they're being funny about it now. Yes. We've reached that point to where it's now. Well, that's good because it got, it quickly got worn out by people seriously dabbing who should. shouldn't have been dabbing, so I'm glad we've moved on for that. Yes, it's like once the president fist bumps people, you're like, wow, I really got to

stop fist bumping people. That is, I don't care how cool our president at the time was. It became classically uncool when you're seeing some of the stiffest people on the face of the earth fist bump each other. It's funny you mentioned the turn, the change, the evolution of things that are cool that become lame, right? Yes. Last night, the NBA kind of officially tipped off, right?

We had the two games the first night. But last night, like everybody else played, except, of course, the rockets and the thunder. The poor thunder, right? They ended the season last year when Rudy Gobert tested positive last year. And, of course, this year, this kind of group of misfit toys, which everyone believes is building for what should be a really good future, but the future is not now. supposed to be playing in Houston against the rockets, but then there was one positive test, and then there was contact tracing, and the rockets didn't play. We'll get to that and what I think it speaks to in terms of James Harden a little bit later. John Hollinger is going to join us from

the athletic, former NBA GM. He'll join us in 15 minutes. Should be pointed out that John Middilkoff will join us in an hour in 15 minutes, we'll turn our attention to football, and Rick Buecker will join us in the third hour of the show. A good other programming note, that if you like Joy Taylor and we like Joy Taylor, tomorrow morning, you turn on Fox Sports Radio and she'll be filling in... No, not tomorrow morning, Saturday morning. What day is today? Today's Thursday.

Today's Thursday. Today's Thursday. I had no idea. Today's Thursday. Tomorrow. I swear to God, I thought... I know. You scare me for a second.

I'm like, oh, wait. Because I'm not working tomorrow. That's what I... Yeah, no. Saturday. Okay, so Saturday morning. So she'll be reacting to all the Christmas Day sporting events, gets you ready for NFL football, college football, everything.

that's Saturday morning, 7 o'clock. 7 to 10 to 10, 10 to 1 Eastern. You just turn on Foxport, Trayette. You're like, oh, Joey's on. Oh, Joey's on. Joy's on. Of course, you should follow her on IG as well. Okay. So the change, and I'm, last night in the NBA, a lot of stuff happened.

Like, Trey Young, 37 points in 25 minutes and missed two shots. Like, oh, my God, that's crazy. And they won, most importantly, they won against the Chicago Bowl. There are other stories which are interesting, but this one I think the most interesting because you have the Bucks who are not interesting. They're just not. They're good, not great, but not interesting,

even though they added one of my favorite players in the NBA Drew Holiday. And the Bucks lost to the Celtics 122, 121. If you turn on all the highlight shows, I think most of them are just Jason Tateham in a bank three to win. the game over Janus. You're like, oh, game winner.

Yeah, that's actually not what happened. What happened was Jason Tatum in a bank three over Janus, and then the Bucks got the ball back, Janus got fouled with 0.4 seconds to go. He made one free throw, missed one free throw, they lose by one. Which there's a bunch of kind of loaded up things that come with it, right? Like the Bucks never win the big game. They're taking on the Celtics. team they'd have to beat, we would guess, to get to the finals or the conference finals.

Of course, the Celtics look different without Gordon Hayward. Obviously, they're trying to work, you know, the Kemba Walker knee thing and Jason Tatum, kind of a burgeoning star. Like, there's a lot to it. And then the big question for Janus is the ability to make, whether it's three-point shots or just free throws or open shots, he misses a free throw. And you wonder if this becomes a thing, right? like he can't make big free throws and it becomes a thing.

But the bigger point is what I would guess is coming, which is everybody's all nice to be honest because it's a great story, right? Like a guy who's like in the second division in Greece, gets drafted, you know, in the middle of the first round and in a draft where there are so many busts above him and he becomes a two-time NBA MVP. and by the way, the Bucks build a new practice facility, new arena, and basically a team all around the way in which he plays.

And then in this past off season, at the very what felt like the final hour, he signs the biggest contract in the history of the sport, the Supermax contract, to stay in Milwaukee and build and win a championship organically, which all feels like a great story. but we know kind of how this goes right like oh we're all nice and then you lose in the playoffs and you can't win the big game and you become a choker or just not a winner or whatever and i i do wonder like i i've often said this joy nobody gets newspapers anymore if you do actually i i signed up for a news my newspaper i signed up for the l a times the orange can i register just because like

they are it's like two bucks for like six months. It's like, are you kidding me? But if you do get the Sunday paper, or if you did back in the day, there's the parade magazine. You know the parade magazine, right? So there's one of the magazines,

one of the one week per year, they do the what people make. You ever seen the what people make thing? I had Dave Revson's a dear friend of mine who works with the Big Ten Network. is my original play-by-play partner when I first started doing basketball games 18 years ago. And one time we were driving from Lehigh, Pennsylvania to Bristol, Connecticut,

and we entertained ourselves the entire way with the how much you think this guy makes. And I would give him the he lives in Logan, Utah, he is a postal worker, he's 50 years old, how much you think he makes, Reverend? And he'd guess, right? We do the over under and you'd guess. But the point of the parade magazine is always, once you find out how much somebody makes, you cast judgment about them. You absolutely do, right?

I mean, like if a guy, a school teacher, you know, a school teacher is having a bad day, you know, they're doing all the stuff on Zoom and you're like, you know, they're a school teacher, they don't come make much money, right? Whereas if an athlete, you know, he misses a shot or he, Chris Paul pulls a hamstring. Now, you can't pull a hamstring. You make $42 million a year. Because in our minds, there has to be a direct correlation between how much you make and your level of performance.

And I guess there should be. Yannis signed the biggest contract ever. He stayed home. He's done never, for the most part, never done anything wrong to anybody, right? Is the turn coming? You mentioned the turn and the dabbing. Is the turn coming when Janus is no longer fun and come. huddly and a puppy, and now he's a full, full grown dog, and we're like, we hold him to a

higher level of accountability. Oh, I think the turn is definitely coming. But I've been saying this for a while now. Janus is not interesting because he's not a great player. He is a great player. But he's not controversial. He's not, not even not controversial. He's not polarizing. Like, if you look at what a star is, Tom Brady, LeBron James, Kobe Bryant's, they're they're controversial in a way that people want to argue about them. Is Kobe the best? Is MJ the best? Is LeBron the best?

Is Tom Brady the best? Is Aaron Rogers the best? There's a conversation to be had about it. There's no conversation to be had about Janus yet. Now he's signed the contract, so there's expectations of winning. But what's really changed? They've added Drew Holiday, which I agree with you. I love Drew Holiday.

Great piece. Is he enough to say get past what looks like what might be one of the greatest offensive ensemble? has ever created in the Brooklyn Nets? Is that enough to get past them and get to the NBA finals? I don't think so. And what have the Bucks done in the past few years with Janus to prove that they're able to even get to the finals, let alone beat any team that comes out of the West? To me, nothing.

So, Janus has been, it's a similar trajectory to me to KD in Oklahoma City, where KD was beloved. I mean, he was very much protected by the media. He was a great player. Everyone adored him. I wouldn't describe KD as that now. Katie has criticized a lot, but his career has dramatically changed since then. There comes a point where you have to actually perform in the postseason and match what you're making and the expectations that we've put on you, that you've put on yourself with actual results. I don't think Janice is going to do that.

What was the headline in the Oklahomaan who was Mr. was it Mr. Dependable? Mr. Unreliable, right? Mr. Unreliable. Mr. Unreliable. Here's how beloved Kevin Durant was in Oklahoma City. he didn't play well against the Memphis Grizzlies in the playoffs. And the headline was Mr. It was unreliable and they made it.

It was like a play on word, right? Instead of reliable was big and then Un was kind of next to it. In other words, it was like surprising how unreliable he was considering his reputation. And they retracted and apologized for the headline in a sports page when he didn't play well. Yep. It was crazy. And think of how people criticize and pick apart Katie now. So imagine that used to be a world.

Isn't that because he left? Yes. Right? So Janice didn't leave. Yonis didn't leave. Right. So there's really only two options for Yonis now. Either Janus is always going to be considered a great player that's not a champion.

And it's just a really great regular season player, nice player, good representative of the sport. But if you're going to be a superstar, you have to win. And he's not able to do that yet. Yes and no. I agree he should have to win. But like Damian Lillard gets a pass. But Damian Lillard is a little polarizing. He has a little edge to him.

No, I agree. But no one ever, I have yet to hear somebody go like, hey, you know, Damian Lillard might not be a winner, you know. Now look, Damian Lillard, when he's faced off with Steph in the playoffs, Steph has been better every time. Regardless of, you want to say like supporting cast, like, Steph has been better. Damien Lillard is also not back-to-back MVP.

I understand that, okay? But I think we give, look, we in the media, whether we want to or don't, we pick and choose who we like and what we like about them, right? And for whatever reason, they're sides. I operate mostly in the gray area because there are guys that are so good that I might not be at love them as guys, I'm like, dude, you got to respect that.

I don't know if the turn is coming to Janus because I think he will get the Milwaukee pass, which is the Portland Pass, which we pat him on the head. It doesn't matter how much money they spend and how they're in the same league as anybody else and that LeBron could win in Cleveland, why can't you win in Milwaukee? It's a similar market.

If anything, it's a better market because it's an hour and a half of the road from Chicago, right? I think we'll give him an additional pass because he stayed home, right? He got more money. Like, that's the crazy part. I always love the, man, I'm in it. I love it here. I'm staying here.

Like, yeah, but you've got more money to stay here. That's not. I don't think he necessarily should because at this point in his career, his game should evolve to the point where he should be a much better shooter, right? and he just hasn't. He's developed his body. He's developed lots of his game, but his shooting has not developed.

In some ways, it's regressed because it looks different and not as good as it looked early in his career. But I think that we, I think they're the cute fuzzy pet still that we pat him on the head because he stayed in Milwaukee and we may not hold against him

that parade magazine of $226 million in a four plus one deal. Just like when you look at that parade magazine like, he makes how much? Like, oh, well, you know, he lives in Logan, Utah. I would argue because these guys are making so much money, especially in the NBA with the shoe deals and everything else, the money starts to kind of become a blur.

For me, it's the back-to-back MVPs and the talk that he might win a third straight MVP. That is more of the parade magazine element that I'm holding Janus to. Like, if you're a back-to-back MVP, there's already talk that you might get a third MVP in a row, that at some point, it's got to get you at least to the NBA finals. No question. If you're going to be the most valuable player, you have to be valuable when it actually matters the most. John Hollinger will join us upcoming next. He's a former NBA GM. How should we view, how should we view Janus? And now that we're kind of a day removed from the Lakers and the Clippers, have the Clippers fix their problems and are the Lakers better, even if their roster feels like they should be better. We'll get to that upcoming next.

Joy Taylor, I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is The Herd. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way,

this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes

of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next, we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me

or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people.

I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill,

waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84's big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence.

I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests.

I'm talking. Trip Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people

scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely.

And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free, Our Heart Radio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Doug Ghaly, been Joy Taylor in for Colin. This is The Herd.

We'll hear from Joy in a moment with the herd line news. We got, man, we got great guests. And John Hollinger is the perfect guest to have on. He's a former GM in the NBA. He writes for the athletic. Of course, we were partners. We were teammates over at a different team at a different point in time. And John, I want to start with Janice.

Do you think the expectations, do you think things change now that he signed to stay on long-term in Milwaukee? Well, I think the big picture thing is no matter where he is, is he's. going to get over that hump and get the ring, right? That's the only thing that's left for him to attain in his career. He's a two-time MVP already. He's one defensive player of the year. He's going to waltz into the Hall of Fame, right? So can he be a champion, whether in Milwaukee or someplace else? And the reality is, no matter how many regular season gains, Milwaukee wins, they've had the best record in the league the last two years already. We don't really get an answer to this until the playoffs start. And the regular season is almost, it's not here.

relevant in terms of the things he needs to do to get ready for that postseason, but we're not going to get the answer to any questions about him until the playoffs start. But if, I mean, is it fair to say that though it wasn't a playoff loss last night, the idea that a two-time MVP misses a free throw? Like, that's, again, like, I understand that it's just one game. It's the first game of the year. Completely get a different environment.

There's no, you know, home court advantage or disadvantage of being on the road in Boston. And hell, Jason Tatum throws in a bank three, which is such a massive misfire. It actually went in, like there's a lot to it. But missing a free throw, it's a, it is. The free, the free throw thing is going to hang over him, definitely,

because that's the one, that feels like an exploitable weakness in the postseason, right? Yeah. Until he shows that he can knock those shots down when it matters. And his free throw, like low key, its free throw shooting kind of went off the rails last season. And so that's going to

a question again i'll do it i'll see him until he shows he can do it i have actually have a question joy i need you to get in on this um are we too old i and i know what low key means we're just talking about kids or whatever are we are we too old to use such a hip expression like low key john and i'm not i'm not accusing you of trying to use i just i'm will brinson tweeted this out about something low key before are you no low key low key and high key are acceptable so we're good we're good judges are all saying good we're all we're okay john you're good Good. Houston, we're good. Houston, we're good.

Sorry, I've been watching too many space shuttle. I've been watching that space shuttle documentary, which is disturbing. Now we're going to start making references to like the Jeffersons and shows from the 70s, right? See what the ruling is on that. All right. I want to get last night was a fascinating night in the NBA. I do want to get your thoughts. Lakers Clippers.

Look, again, it's a regular season game. The Clippers, once again, they can hang a banner for their inaugural or, you know, or, you know, bi-annual, whatever it is, championship of L.A. in the first day of the season. But I did think they looked like they ran better offense. I did think they looked like the additions they made sense. It's Serge Abaka. They hadn't had a rim protector.

And a big guy that could make jump shots. They got both in Abaka, who has enough life left in his legs. And Nick Batum, I don't know if he's remembered how to play basketball, but it did look like he fit. let's just start with the Clippers, one game in. What are your thoughts on the reworking, the year two, of that tandem? Yeah, I thought it looked good too. I thought Luke Canard gave them an extra connector out there,

which is something they needed. I thought Batum in that role was going to be pretty good. Again, Marcus Morris is going to play most of those minutes. But just as you know, you're asking Batum to be an eighth, ninth guy, as opposed to being in Charlotte and asking them to be your main man and paying him $27 million a year, right? It's a completely different scenario. But two can still fill a roll as a, you know, a three, four off the bench.

You can make an open shot. He knows how to play. It just doesn't have any athletic dick to him to create stuff on his own. But you have Kauai and Paul George for that. I thought the biggest relief for the Clippers is how good Paul George looked because he really didn't look good in that Denver series last year. And that was one of the differences in why they lost that series. So to have him come out like Gangbusters, I thought was a really positive sign.

I do think Ibaka gives them a stretch five that they didn't have last year. I thought Zubach did a really good job off the bench, protecting the rim. But again, Zubach is more the rim runner type. Having that extra stretch guy with Abaka there, I think that will help them in the postseason. Yeah, I'm actually a buyer. By the way, Batum and getting much thicker than he was early in his career, there's like a Boris Diao quality to him. Right?

It's a French thing, I guess. Yeah, yeah. And you know what? Like Boris Diao? When he went to the spurs, like, he just, he became kind of a perfect kind of glue guy. And I don't know if enough people understand the difference in, like, look, if you're a starter, there's just a difference in your backup. They just, there's less heavy lifting, and you're not playing against as good a players,

so you can just focus on one or two things and be really, really effective. And while you can be a bad starter, you can be a great bench player. Yeah, I mean, Batum isn't going to have to take a shot off the dribble the whole season. Right? Like that's just not even in his role at all. So it's an easier game for him because of that. All right. Now, the same question to the Lakers, because on paper, the Lakers roster looks a lot better.

But Marcosal did not look great. And while I love the idea of Dennis Schroeder, right, a guy who can create his own shot outside of what you have with LeBron and Anthony Davis, I do have my questions about Truder in terms of can he guard, does he know his role, can he be efficient? One game in, and again, the Lakers are definitely playing for the postseason, not the regular season. They just, like two weeks ago they just won a championship.

What's your early snapshot of the Lakers? You know, they look like they were on a back-to-back almost. Like, they just didn't have any zip to them. Like, normally when they play, they're so fast in transition, and that's one of the things they really hurt teams with all the last year. and they just didn't have any of that, right, right from the word go. You know, they're down 20 at the end of the first quarter. So I thought that was the biggest thing.

I do think they're going to have to stagger minutes a little more to get Schrooter playing with that second unit where he can come in with Montrez-Harrell and be like a side offense when LeBron isn't out there. Because if you're right, the fit with him with the first group is a little clunky, maybe still. And maybe that's something that works out over the course of the season. season. I still think they're going to end up finishing games with him on the floor. But I do wonder about him being in that first group if they may be, if they either early sub or if they just go ahead and start Alex Caruso and just make sure to the six-man again

and say, hey, you can win the six-man trophy this year. Is the Kuzma deal a good deal for the Lakers? Yeah, I didn't like that for a couple of reasons. First of all, I don't think he's actually proven he's good, right? Like there are little flashes here and there, but he just hasn't been that guy who commands that kind of salary, really, since his beginning the second year. And the other thing is that it took them out of the trade possibilities because the poignant pill provision.

And I wrote about this in the athletic. One of the few ways the Lakers had to improve their roster between now and the end of the season was to potentially put Kuzma and a couple of small contracts in a trade to get maybe another veteran player if they found themselves short at a position. And again, you don't know what weaknesses the season is going to uncover necessarily. So you don't know what you're thinking about your team at the trade deadline. And it takes that possibility away by signing this extension now. And I just think you could have gone into restricted free agency with them and gotten the same deal.

John Hollinger joining us. What does he know? He's just a former GM in the NBA, right? Right. For the athletic, he joins us in the herd here on Fox Sports Radio. most impressive performance last night to you? I would say Utah looked really good. Just their commitment to really playing like this three-point heavy style,

even while they're playing big center the whole game. I mean, they were just bombing away on Portland. Now, Portland's last couple preseason games in this game, their defenses looked really shaky. So maybe that's just the function of who they were playing. But Utah impressed me. I was a little worried about their offseason, but they look like one through nine,

like they look like they got a pretty good team. Yeah, I did not think Damien Lillard looked great. And it's fascinating on how we were talking before you joined us about how I still think Janice is going to get a little bit of a pass. Joy does not because he's a two-time MVP, as you discussed. But Lillard staying in Portland or whatever. whatever is kind of the is the parallel

to me is that you get a pass when you don't play well but well you stayed in Portland he didn't do the super team thing and I don't know if that ever changes yeah it's interesting because they're kind of locked into this team and I'm not sure

how good they actually are and you think about it I mean they signed extensions for both Lillard and McCollum that haven't even started yet you know, Lillard's salary jumps up to 39 next year on that extension, on a Supermax deal. So it's an interesting situation Portland's in because they're kind of locked in with that group, and it's hard for them to move the needle any further and bring in other guys,

and I'm still not sure it tops out as anything more than a first-round playoff team. John Hollinger joining us on Fox Sports Radio. Brooklyn looked great the first night. And I actually thought that the juxtaposition of the two was fascinating to me and stick with me because, look, you were GM in this league. I don't know how many people outside of basketball people understand what allowed Steph to be great wasn't just our embracing the three-point shot, wasn't just the way officiating has changed. It's that that team was constructed where everybody could kind of handle, bring it up, and pass. and that allowed Steph who is actually probably better without the ball. At minimum, he's equally effective.

And most people I talk to in the NBA are like he's actually better without the ball because he's unbelievable in his movement. He can get rid of it quick. He can really pass. But, you know, they had Iguodala could really pass like a point forward. Kevin Durant obviously could bring the ball up and create his point. Sean Livingston was a point card. Barbosa was a point card.

Draymond Greener didn't play the other night. Obviously, he's a very, very good passer. Andrew Bogot when they first won championship. An excellent passer. Whereas now, this is more of a traditional team. And you have Andrew Wiggins, who's not a very good passer. Whether they had clay or not, you know, you pick up another wing who's not a great passer. And then, you know, Wiseman's 19 years old.

He's not really a passer. And so now, Steph, in addition to having to be Stefan's scoring, he has to always be creating shots and that takes away from who he is at his best. I don't dislike. I hate the Warriors Reconstruction. What are your thoughts? Yeah, I think it's going to be, they're going to have a hard time getting in the top eight in the West this year, I think.

You could see, I mean, the next look great and exposed all their weaknesses, but you could see the weaknesses. They don't have those, you know, I talked about Luke Kinnard going into Clippers and being kind of a connector there with his ability to shoot and pass and create. some stuff off the dribble. And the Warriors don't really have that guy on their roster at all. I mean, they have some athletic wing players in Wiggins and Ubrae. But again, they need somebody to create that stuff, create those openings for them.

And Steph can't always be that guy because you're taking, like you say, you're taking away the thing he does best, which is having him off the ball. Now, getting Draymond's back will cure some of that. But there's a lack of shooting and a lack of playmaking on that team. and it's weird to say about a team with Steph Curry about it. Like, I don't know if they have enough shooting, but they really kind of don't because it all depends on him. And you need to create the room around him, too. And that's what made the Splash Brothers era so effective.

Last thing, Brooklyn, call it. Does it work? Yeah, I mean, that was pretty impressive. The biggest thing with them is going to be the health issues. I mean, Kyrie has been heard almost every year he's played. KD coming back from the Achilles he looked really good that first game let's see how he holds up that's probably the biggest question mark with them

I mean in terms of high level talent yeah I mean they have championship level talent and they got good fit right like you got Joe Harris who can stretch the floor you got Dianre Jordan you have two big guys who can protect the rim you have Spencer Dinwiddie who can take

Kyrie off the basketball some like I actually I like the fit there of what they've been able to do John great stuff I love the most recent piece in the athletic. I learned a ton. Continue to pump them out. Merry Christmas to you and thanks for joining us. All right.

Thanks for having me and have a great holiday. All right, that's John Hollinger. Low key. Great job. Anyway, let's get you to Joy Taylor with the news. No, no, no, no, turn on the news. This is the herd line news. Lamello Ball was scoreless in his NBA debut with the Hornets last night.

Do you go bagel or donut when a guy scores zero? Does Blue Tarski? Blue Tarsky is too old to reference, by the way. I would go bagel. Bagel? Yeah. What kind of bagel? Favorite bagel is what?

I generally go with a plain bagel. Okay. Plain toasted bagel. Butter? Cream cheese. Cream cheese? There's got to be toasted, though. Otherwise, it's...

Do you do the cream cheese like... Inedible. On just one side? Do you do like a super... No, I like a little bit of bagel with my cream cheese. Okay, got it. Got it. So it was a bagel for five from the field and donut for three on three-point attempts and 16 minutes off the bench.

She also has a little. had three turnovers, three assists, two steals. Did you see the one possession where he like fell down, lost the ball, got up, stole the ball. His steel and one of his turnovers was on the same possession. They lost 121, 114 to the Cavs. I don't, I try to be just an observer for like the first couple weeks of the NBA season. And in this situation, it's even more interesting because, I mean, the Lakers just, it doesn't even feel like two weeks ago that they just finished. Same with heat, obviously.

But, you know, we're watching basketball, so we're going to react every day is what we do in sports. I don't think this is anything to be too crazy about. He's a rookie. They've had minimal preseason, no summer league. So there's nothing to freak out about. It's similar to NFL rookies.

I felt like we should give NFL rookies a lot of grace. Jonathan Taylor is a great example in the Colts. We're like, where is he? Is he a bus? Why aren't they using him? And now he's great. It's just going to take rookies, generally a little more time

and we should be a little more gracious. And especially this rookie class, which is very young, a veterinary experience. And the college kids didn't have an NCAA term. And he hasn't played a game, a real game since when he played. It was like February in Australia.

Early February when he bailed, he got hurt in Australia. I do think that he's played professional basketball before. He should be a little bit more advanced than other guys. But I'm with you and we need to have patience. Yeah, just be a little more gracious.

because we're very reactionary in general, and that's fine. But it's what I did with the NFL. Like, I didn't think, I think the Giants are an incredible story. They've had a new head coach, no preseason. Like, there's just certain teams we had to be a little more patient with, and now we're seeing towards the end of the season some of the development that those teams are having. It's going to be so much of the NBA. I don't think one game is anything to overreact to.

No, but it was bad. Now, look, it was bad. One thing to point out with Terry Rozier was great. Yes, he was. Four, two points. He was incredible. And look, ironically, Lonzo had a terrible first game, too. He scored three points in 29 minutes in his NBA debut.

Nothing to ever react to. I like lamello ball a lot more than other people, because to your point, he has played a lot of professional basketball. And people may scoff at the, you know, Australia thing or the European thing, but those are professional grown men that they're playing against. It's a plus for Luca, so I don't know why it wouldn't be a plus for Lamello that he's played in those situations. Now, obviously, Luca grew up in that. And Luca played at the very highest level, whereas the Lithuanian thing was not, but he was just a kid.

And then the Australian thing, my problem with the Australian thing was people just watch highlights. Like, oh, well, he shot 35 and 25. Right. And so. To me, it's more about being in a quote-unquote professional setting over a college setting. Not that I, like, I love college basketball. I have no problem with guys going to college. I'm not like, I'll just go straight to the league or go play over.

sees. If you want to play college, I think that's great. But you are playing against men. No question. My thing with Mello is I like the Australia thing because it took the dad out of the mix. There's no question that anybody who's a reasonable person says, you don't have to like Lavaar Ball. You've got to respect the fact that he believed his two kids could be, he believes all three kids could be NBA players and two of them were top three picks. Yeah. That's unbelievable. And for, you know, for two weeks, they are, well, two weeks or a week, they were all three in the NBA,

Right. And there comes a time, though, when you have to let, because the down, Lonzo's struggles were, he was injured a lot early on, but also there were things that he wasn't trained in by his dad. And I think that when you play professionally, you do, he knows how to run pick and roll. The issue with Lonzo is going to be, because he has great positional size, his great vision. Lamello. A Lamello. Sorry, great positional size. One, can he develop into the type of athlete, his brother is? Yeah. And two, can he shoot? And three, will he be tough and defend? Because would you watch in Australia, he stayed as far away from contact as possible? To me, it's the defensive thing.

Because I think the shooting is going to come over time just with reps and years in the league. I mean, there's guys who've been in there for a long time. He still can't shoot. But the defensive thing is going to be the most important thing to me, because you can't not be a great shooter and be a defensive liability. So DeAndre Hopkins has been criticized for missing some practices since arriving in Arizona. According to the Cardinals' injury reports, he's missed 18. of the 41 this season, including 10 for veteran days off.

And he blamed the media for fueling criticism of his practice schedule. You know, for those people who don't understand football and who just watch, there's a reason that I play football and they watch. Please tell your friends and all you guys on the local stations. You know, if you got anything negative to say about DeAndre Hopkins, I charge to come on shows, but I give a discount to come on the show for those people. He also said his grandfather watches all those shows. He doesn't watch him, but his grandfather does.

And so he tells him everything that said. This to me is a classic situation of if you're great, it doesn't matter. If you're terrible, it matters. It's just as simple as that. It really doesn't matter that he's missing practices. It's generally given, you know, two veteran players that you get an extra day off, depending on the team. So obviously Arizona's never a problem with it.

He's leading the NFL in receiving yards in his second and recycling. and he could become the first player since the merger to lead the NFL and receiving yards after his first season of being traded. So it's just a matter of DeAndre Hopkins is great. Therefore, he's allowed to mispractices. If he was playing terrible, he would need to be a practice. It's just as simple as that. It is that simple. I think both sides can be right, right?

Like, I actually understand Bill O'Brien's frustration there, right? When you're trying to work out offensive stuff and you're trying to fix things like, we need you there. But I also understand it like, look, dude, I keep proven on Sundays that I'm playing. And by the way, a veteran day off is a veteran day off. Yeah, so slash 10 of those for veteran days off. But I think he's handling it terribly. Like, all of these things can be right. There's no need to say, like, I play and you don't.

Like, we got it, dude. You're a stud. All you have to say is like, look, this is how I get my body ready. If Cliff has got an issue with it, I'll talk to Cliff about it. But this is how I get my body ready. I don't think you have to do the extra back. It doesn't bother me because like, whatever. Like, I'm a media nerd.

It doesn't bother me at all. But I don't think you have to be condescending. I just look at it as exactly that. You're great, so you get that. If you weren't great, you wouldn't get it. Joy Taylor with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by.

The Heard Lye News. All right, here's what we're going to do. We're going to continue the wide receiver conversation. Juju Smith-Schuster is not going to dance anymore. Did we have an issue with him dancing to begin with? Enjoy, I'm Doug. That's next in The Herd. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle great. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying.

Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music.

The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jek. And I'm Alex English.

We pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence.

Yes. I don't think there's a more. important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when

we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Keir Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now.

John Guley, Ryan Music, part of the production crew today. Our thanks and Merry Christmas to you and your family and your friends. Please be safe and be vigilant and just wear a damn mask so we can get through this thing. Joy and I were talking, can I, can I share our, our facts discussion? That was, you made a, you made the, the best point that I've heard anybody made you, did it in succinct style about the vaccination. Oh, okay. I don't know if I could do it again. Well, you said, it was, it was like your, you're, to somebody who says, I don't want to get the vaccine, your response was what?

Oh, I mean, I have lots of thoughts, but like, one, what do you put in your body generally? like do you take... That wasn't the one I was thinking of. What was it? It was like, what's your end game? Oh, yeah. I mean, what's the plan? What is the plan?

I don't know. Yeah, of course. Like, so you don't want to wear a mask. You want everything to open. You want the pandemic to end, but you don't want to take the vaccine. So, yeah, I don't know. That sounds like a stew of disaster to me.

I just need an answer. Like, what is the plan if we're not going to take the vaccine? Well, I love the... I love the... This is like, the government is like the NCAA. Everybody blames them for things that have nothing to do with them. Right? Right?

Like the NCAA has nothing to do with college football. Like I don't like the college ball playoff. The NCAA, like, actually the NCAA is like, hey, that's not our thing. Well, yeah. And also, like, I don't know what the government has to do with it because it's a global pandemic. Not only that, but it's like these are, if you don't like Big Pharma, that's okay. Right. But Big Pharma did these two vaccines.

Of course. The government did not make them. No. Right. But even if the government did make them, it doesn't matter. It's a global pandemic. We are not a country. We're not like our own.

planet. This is happening to an entire planet of people, not just us, all of who need the vaccination. So it is not, in my opinion, whatever that matters, I don't feel like it's a government conspiracy when it is affecting the entire world. Not that there aren't government conspiracies, I

definitely believe in. Like what? I don't know. Come on, give me one. Give me one government conspiracy you think you think is, like, do you think we land down the moon or is that a sound state? No, I don't think that we went to the moon, no. You don't? Why haven't we been back? Because really hard to, I don't know, if you've No, it's really hard to land on the moon.

It's harder. It was harder then than it is now? No, it's hard now, but it's like a waste of money. What's the point? It's just a rock. It's that we've been there. I mean, if nothing else. It's like, it's 20, 20.

Pick a random state you've been to. You're like, yeah, I've been there. Do you want to go back? Not really. That's the moon. I don't know. We're on the bigger and brighter things. The moon thing.

We're on to Mars. Yes, we're on the Mars. It's like we're on the Cincinnati, right? We're on the Cincinnati. Right. It's nothing to discuss. All right. We'll get back to the government conspiracies that Joy Taylor believes later on the show.

Also, and don't answer now, are you pro or anti-gift card? This is a big thing. Juju Smith, Schuster announced yesterday he will no longer dance on the opponent's logo in a stadium. Yes. This is big breaking news. You are a native of Pittsburgh. I am. Is all things right with the world now?

I think, yes, it is the right thing to do for him to stop dancing on the logos. Did it bother me? Zero percent. But when something becomes a bigger story than you guys losing three games in a row and possibly falling out of the top spot in the AFC North, it's time to stop dancing on the logos. Well, look, I don't care about the dancing, but there's a connection there between D'Andre Hopkins and Juju Smith-Schuster.

and why I could be okay with the dancing, but not in this particular instance. We'll get to that upcoming next. Plus, we got John Minnokov joining us, getting ready for a big NFL weekend, only in the herd. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite.

Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.

Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hard Way

with your favorite therapist and host Care Games. This speech is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a license, professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor. It signals to the world that you not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to, listen to learn the hard way on the AHA radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying.

Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human. Thank you.