The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 3 and Out - 2-Point Conversion, Refs stink, Best Super Bowl Match-Up

Episode Date: January 3, 2024

John answers your questions in today's huge mailbag show. He dives deeper into the Lions 2-Point conversation at the end of the Cowboys game, where Mac Jones could end up, should the NFL change the fumbling out of the endzone rule, and who is the best matchup for the 49ers if they were to make the Super Bowl. 9:45 - Mac Jones' off-season 19:36 - Caleb Williams and his teammates 34:40 - Could we see AI refs 40:52 - John's role as a scout 43:17 - 49ers and the Super Bowl Follow John on Twitter, Instagram and YouTube for the latest. Check out Gametime - the fastest growing ticketing app in the US, and the official ticketing app of 3 & Out and GoLow -  for tickets to all of your favorite NFL, NBA, NHL, NCAA teams. Concert and comedy show tickets, too. Go to Gametime now to create an account, download the app and use code JOHN for $20 off your first purchase. #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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See dkng.com slash football for eligibility and deposit restriction terms and responsible gaming resources. What is up? Everybody, happy new year. I guess we're going to say that for a couple more days. This is going to be a heavy, heavy mailbag show. So at John Middlecough, at John Middlecough, is my Instagram, 2Fs, firing those DMs, and get your question answered here on the show.

Last week of the NFL season, a couple big games, which we'll dive into as the week goes on, some games that don't matter, conceding's already set. Obviously, we've got a couple teams that have, are the number one seeds locked in so that can't change. We know who's going to get the buys.

We don't totally know the draft order. That's subject to change a little bit beside the Bears having the number one overall pick. So we'll dive into some of the bigger storylines. Clearly Harbaugh is a big story not just this week because he plays on Monday but he's got Tom Brady's old agent,

Jimmy Garoppolo's agent, Don Yee. Will he go to the NFL? Will he go? I think to the Raiders that would be my guess. Though I would love to see him with the Chargers. A lot of people do believe he's going to go to the NFL. We'll talk about that all as the week kind of take shape here. But today, heavy mailbag at John Middlecott Fire in those DMs.

We've had podcasts out on Saturday night after the Cowboys game. And I think really quick, I spoke about that incident directly after the game. There was a lot going on. I just want to make it very clear. The ref screwed up. the lions tried to fool the Cowboys by sending all the offensive linemen to the referee. And I understand Dan Campbell had told the guy pregame

what they were going to do. A lot transpired. These referees aren't exactly the most competent individuals. So clearly he screwed up. He called the wrong guy. But you can't just assume that they would have scored a touchdown when the Cowboys did not know 68 was eligible. So when he went out to run the pass,

they hadn't called the guy eligible. On the referee, not on the Lions, assuming all the Lions players are telling the truth, but to just assume that they're scoring a touchdown with that play is insane. So this notion that the Lions got screwed, well, yeah, they got screwed the moment the guy didn't call the right guy eligible, but then we don't know if the play would have worked or not. Cool play. Ben Johnson, impressive.

Again, referees continually screw up. I've been saying this, I've been beating this drum for a decade. This is not going to change. Thinking that making these guys go full time one day would change everything also to me is kind of laughable Like I don't think that is what would immediately fix anything. What are these guys going to do? Practice that scenario, you know, after three hours of being winded, you know, distracted, whatever on a Wednesday at home I don't think that's going to change much. I know we got to go full time. I think it's a little different, right? I really do. I don't think the impact is that big. So I think I might have bled the player. Obviously, if we assume the players are telling the truth, the referee screwed up.

But the moment he screws up, like, people are acting like the Cowboys didn't know what was going on. Of course they didn't. Why would they cover 68? If I'm playing the Niners and they say number 66 is eligible, and then Trent Williams goes out for a pass and he catches the ball like, why didn't you cover him? Well, fuck, I had no clue he was an option. And maybe they wouldn't have. Maybe they would have. Maybe they would have screwed up but the lions tricked the ref and then the ref blew it which they do a lot milk off mailbag let's dive in start with thomas happy new year i've got a mailback question for you who are you most personally rooting for to go into the playoffs this year players coaches organizations it's all on the table also what's the deal with mason rudolph pittsburgh Pittsburgh could run the table this

year and keep playing like they have since he took over. Really quick on the Steelers. I said it several weeks ago. Ms. Trubisky's contract is the worst in the NFL. He's a third string quarterback getting $8 million. And he was an absolute disaster this season. If they would have played this version of Mason Rudolph in instead of Trubisky, I mean, they're a 11-win team.

They're in the playoffs easily. And more than likely, you know, obviously there are several scenarios. they're going to win this week because they're playing the Ravens with nothing to play for. They're not going to make the playoffs. And Tomlin's going to go 10 and 7 and maybe I thought he was going to get traded or fired. Maybe nothing happens. But the reason that they miss the playoffs, like they're 10 and 7. What does that even mean?

Like they're a really good organization. They're never going to suck. They're never going to suck. They're too good at drafting. They're too good at making trades. Like their team's always going to have talent. Tomlin's good. But to go 10 and 7 and to miss the playoffs in a scenario where you started Trubisky a bunch of games,

who was pitiful, were Mason Rudolph's clearly better. Like, Mike Tomlin's the coach. Ultimately, he signed off on Trubisky being the starter once Pickett got hurt and not going with Mason Rudolph. Who's dramatically better? And I'm not acting like Mason Rudolph's

Ben Rothesberger here, but if you just watch the Steelers play, there's a Grand Canyon wide gap between him and Trubisky. And clearly he's, you know, invigorated the team. That version of the Pittsburgh Steelers against Seattle is like a real football team. But a little too, little too late.

I would say, listen, I'm rooting for the best games possible, and to me that would be Ravens and the Niners. I want to rematch. I don't take the NFC that seriously at all. I mean, the Eagles are imploding. The Cowboys are clearly very flawed. Lions have been an incredible story. They're in a lock to make it out of the first round if they play the Rams. Rams, and assuming the Packers beat the Bears, which is not going to be easy, have had very, very impressive seasons.

so I wouldn't mind seeing chaos in the NFC. I don't see how anyone beats the 49ers. They're going to be, they've owned all these teams. And the AFC, I guess, could get a little weird, but it's hard to have faith in Kansas City, you know, making it pass like the second round. Miami, to me, if they lose this weekend, they're doing nothing in the playoffs.

I think a Flacco Ravens game would be really fun, and I just think there's a lot of pressure on Lamar to play like he's played this season, which was awesome, carried into the postseason, and take care of business and Ravens 40-nighters, and let's get, you know, part two and, you know, see what happens. Because the Ravens obviously kicked their ass as the best possible matchup. Now, the curveball team, to me, would be the Bills.

They haven't played that well since the Cowboy game, but assuming that they win this weekend, they're the two-seed, you know, they're a scary team for sure, just because of their quarterback, despite their flaws, and they definitely have them. Hope you're doing well. For the next mailback, what do you think happens to Mack Jones this off?

season. Well, I think before you could ever get into what's going to happen to said player, you have to answer, well, who's making the decisions, right? For 25 years, Bill Belichick's made every decision in that building when it comes to players, the team contract, right? Is Bill Belichick back? And I think that's, you could argue the biggest question in the league. I think if you wanted to say, like, what's the biggest coaching questions? Like Arthur Smith, whether he gets fired or not, like, who cares? You know, Ron Rivera is going to get. get fired. We already know there are job openings. To me, it's, because now it's, I, listen, I thought Tomlin, it has run its course. I still believe that, but he goes 10 and 7,

or the Steelers are going to fire him or trade him? Probably highly unlikely, based on the history of the organization. But what happens to Bill Belichick, and where does Jim Harbaugh if he comes, go to the, if he comes to the NFL? That's what interests me. Like, Ben Johnson, where he got, like, all that type moving, like, whatever, who knows? This is a coin flip. Does Bill Belichick, is he coaching another team? Because I have a hard time. Well, just keep Bill Belichick and have him stop picking the players. How often does that work?

72-year-old who's made hundreds of millions of dollars, who has six Super Bowl rings, who's been to three others, who also won two coaching for one of the great coaches of all time as an assistant in Parcells. They're going to hire some 42-year-old guy that's going to come in and tell Bill Belichick who to pick. I don't even think that's a feasible. solution. I don't think it's possible. One, I don't even necessarily think Bill would totally listen, even if Kraft mandated it.

And two, think about the position of that person. There's opportunities are not all the same. That is one of those opportunities like, is this a good opportunity? I got to go there. Now, maybe Kraft tells you, listen. Try to work with Bill for a year. If that doesn't work, you'll get to bring in your own coach. Maybe that's worth it.

But, hey, Bill, we're going to take this dude in the second round. Bill's like, fuck you are. I don't want that guy. What are you supposed to say? Bill, shut up. We're taking this guy anyway. That's pretty hard. I know some of this stuff's easy in theory,

and easy, like, that's what should happen. I don't think it's plausible. I don't think it's a reality. So to me, either Billichick stays as is, which you could argue probably shouldn't because he's been such a bad GM, even though as a coach. Like, listen, there are two coaches right now

who have legendary resumes. Greg Popovich has been mailing it in for five years. Greg Popovich is an event. embarrassment to the National Basketball Association as a coach. Like, he's terrible. I mean, awful. Bill Belichick, bad general manager, coaching his ass off, like actually trying.

Google the Spurs record. I mean, they are, they just have the number one overall pick. It's basketball. You get one good player. You should at least win, like, 15 games. This team might not even win 10 games this season. Bill Belichick could have, honestly, they're a decent quarterback away from winning eight, nine games.

Because their defense is good. I mean, remember, they had lost three games this season, where they held the opponent to 10 points or under and they lost. Only times it's ever happened in NFL history. Maybe since like 1930 or something. Back when they didn't even have the forward pass. Everyone in Chicago is changing their tune about fields and Iber Flus. A month ago, the same people thought they both suck.

Is there any chance either Fluse or Fields or on the team next fall? I would say definitely there's a chance. Anytime you have an organization that doesn't really know what they're doing, everything's always on the table. Right, always on the table. So if you told me they run it back, trade the number one pick, down three or four spots,

accumulate more picks, definitely plausible. I think that's pretty insane. Listen, I think Fields has a lot of respect for him. The season started, it couldn't have gone any worse. He looked horrendous early on. Then he gets injured,

mentally tough, stays with it, came back, played way better, and just kept battling. Like, his mental toughness this year, complete check. His like, okay, I can go to war with the guy like this, went from like, like, ah, doesn't really look like it,

to, yeah, we could win games with this player. I think I said it yesterday on the college football podcast. Watch Jordan Love play quarterback. He throws the ball like everyone wants Fields to throw the ball. And I'm not talking velocity. I'm just talking the rhythm, the timing in the offense. And everyone's like, well, Fields' offensive coordinator sucks. Is he that bad or, you know, that play call for Alabama?

Well, yeah, you try calling plays to a guy that isn't very accurate. And listen, if I can get a two and a three for Fields, see you, take Caleb Williams, use my other pick, replenish, restock, we move on. That's what I would do. The coach, he'd be gone. And it's not like he's a good defensive coach. He's a good defensive coordinator. He's done a really good job since they traded for Montes Sweat. But it can't be denied.

Am I letting the biggest offseason you could argue, or at least one, One of them, I don't pretend to be some Paris historian. In the history of the franchise, I'm letting Matt Iberfluse be the coach of that. Say that out loud. One of the biggest off-season in the history of one of the oldest franchises in the sport of football, I'm going to let Matt Eberfluse play a big role in dictating our decisions. That seems crazy to me. That really does.

Like, I can't get behind that. I think that is not just reckless, but borderline. I mean, that's what bad organizations do, especially when there are options. Like, think about Jim Harbaugh. Jim Harbaugh played for the Bears. So he's a guy who has a history in your organization. He is now kind of established himself in the area in your organization, right,

the Big Ten country. he's guaranteed for your team to win. And it doesn't even feel like they're interested. I hope I'm wrong because I think that would be an awesome destination for Harbaugh, but it feels very, very unlikely. My father is a dairy farmer in western New York. And he was quite perplexed when he woke up to see that you backed out of your bet on Washington to win.

He wanted me to thank you for the winning tip. When I say I backed out, I had $8,000 that I took into the casino. I was going to put $7 on it on that game. And I was going to put $1,000 on it. And I did on the Washington Huskies to win the national championship. So if the Washington Huskies win the national championship, I'll win $8,000. That's still writing. The $7,000 I was going to all put on money line, right?

At the time when I went in, it was like 1.42. So if I would have put seven, it would have paid like almost $10,000. Maybe a little more. So we would have paid a total of like $16,000. I got cold feet a little bit. Not going to lie. I whisked out. And I put more than half.

I put $4,000 on plus four. Because I thought to myself, listen, if you get the points, it's one thing like one point. If you're getting more than a field goal in an enormous game, you've got to spread a little money on that just to be safe. And listen, I was glad I did at the end of the game because I thought Texas were going to score. And ultimately, if they would have scored,

I would only lost a couple hundred dollars out of my $8,000. So I don't necessarily regret it. I wouldn't pick up about $15,000 a day. So listen, and we got 8K riding on the Natty. So I'm glad I did it. I still got a backyard to do. I don't even have window coverings. I got to get shutters.

I can't be totally reckless. I'm not Dave Portnoy here where I can't better. a million dollars, but if I wanted to do, I can play with a semi-big boys. In every one of the Draft King sports books that they were listening to Coward, they loved the shotout, know my guy Jacob and Brandon by first names, you know, shit, I might just be a regular there. But I had to be smart. You know, I couldn't do, do I regret it?

Well, it's easy to say hindsight, but I bet on Washington. I had $7,000 writing on two separate bets. So I, listen, I put some of my nuts on the table. Did I plan on putting a little more yet? Did I get a little cold feet? I did. I gamble and my units have grown dramatically over the years in my life. But I'm not just throwing around that much money consistently on sporting events.

But I need, I've said this forever. And listen, this podcast and my career is going pretty well. I don't get highs from money. Obviously, you need it to pay the mortgage, to eat, to just do things in life. But like making money to me in business, it just kind of is hollow. in the sense of it does nothing for me. I'm just indifferent. Sweating out $5,000, $10,000 on a bet,

I can't even, I don't get that feeling. Like, I understand why Phil Mickelson was addicting to gambling. Because besides playing golf and trying to beat Tiger Woods, nothing else in life could give you the highs and lows of sitting there on a game and having a team. I can't even describe it. I'm not a drug guy.

I do not do drugs. Don't condone it either. But I can imagine the highs and lows, I get it. Like, I mean, it's just something in your body. I don't get anywhere else. I really don't. Maybe, like, success of my close family or something. Get excited for them.

But for the most part, like, you know, you get in the routine of life. You just, you kind of get numb as you get old. You get jaded to everything. Get unfaced. The gambling is one thing that still gets my juices flowing. Big fan of the pod. Not sure how true this is, but her reports that Caleb Williams wasn't liked by his teammate. What do you make of this as a former scout?

Should it not be concerned for teams? Is this true? I haven't heard about that, but I'll be honest, I haven't done that much asking around about Caleb the guy, but usually you just hear about negative things. I haven't really heard negative things, but I'd be lying if I said I've done that much research.

I've heard more of just like concerned with his play. Now, he's going to be the number one overall pick. He is an excellent prospect. You know, knowing people at Oklahoma, I know one question, his dad plays. a pretty big role, but that's happened with a lot of guys. Like, once you get to the NFL, the general manager and head coach doesn't give a shit about like your dad's concerns.

Like, this is, you know, it's one thing like your dad, you know, is like, what's your GPA? Then you go work for like Google. You think, like, tell the manager your dad has issue with where they put your desk, right? So I haven't heard anything too bad. Listen, he wrote some stuff on his fingernails a couple years ago. Like, he's got some question marks. Not like bad question marks, but so Trevor Lawrence. When you're an elite prospect, people nitpick you.

Zion was the number one overall pick. There were a lot of question marks on him. His weight turned out to be true. His love of basketball, just his body composition. It's okay to nitpick something that you're going to give $30 plus million to. This is not peewee football. This is pro football. It's a multi-billion dollar industry.

And there are going to be conversations that come out over the next three months that 90% of the media is going to freak out about. It's rinse, wash, repeat, same shit every year. Can't be a group of more naive people going in life. It's like, how do you cover a sport and not know the realities of the way the sport goes? Like, why are you asking these questions? Why do you want everyone to have no balance? Because I like people, the best players in the history of the sport have had no balance.

They've been all in. Like Tom Brady had no life. Peyton Manning, zero. Ray Lewis dedicated himself to football. I'm sorry the best players usually are like all in on. football. So having questions of like, yeah, I don't really like to have outside interest. I'm not paying you, you know, $125,000 here to sell some insurance. I'm paying you millions of dollars to make plays on the field. And with that, you know,

there comes great responsibility and a lot of jobs are on the line in the organization, right? And a fan base in a city, you know, leans on your every move. So, yeah, we're going to ask some uncomfortable questions. This is the big leagues. So yeah, I mean, these questions, I don't, honest to God, I don't have that. that much information on Caleb off the field just because I haven't really inquired yet about it, partly because he's such a lock number one overall pick.

I was, I wanted to like Drake May and then I watched him. I'm like, I don't totally see it. Jaden Daniels, definitely a intriguing prospect. He's flown up boards. Obviously, Pennix is a baller. Whenever I watch J.J. McCarthy, maybe I'm just not watching

the right games or something. I don't totally see it, but definitely people like them. Who else am I missing? Bo Nicks, an interesting prospect. These college quarterbacks, things change so fast. Like, you think you love the guy, and then they start getting nitpicked,

and, you know, it gets weird quick when it comes to the draft. You were right about Washington, but holy shit, that was stressful. You're telling me. I got a lot of people in my DMs about Washington. Feel pretty good. Not going to lie. I needed that.

I needed that. How are you acting so nonchalonger. about the two-point conversion in the debacle in Dallas. All you said is the lion should have never been in that spot. Dallas should have ran out the clock. But the lions were in that spot and designed a perfect play with the description and the refs fucking blew it. Probably the worst call I've ever seen.

Probably it helped determine the game and lower Detroit's chances at the number two seat. It wasn't a blown call or a picked up flag. It was a blatant fuck-up. Like I said at the beginning. I agree. the ref ruined it. You want to fire him on the spot? Like, what can be done?

But to act like the play would have worked. When Dallas did not know the guy was eligible, is fucking insane to me. It might have worked, but it might not have. We don't know. We're playing the results game. Like the result, they would have got the two-pointer. They would have won the game.

Maybe, maybe not. They had absolutely no clue. So, yeah, I agree. The ref completely blew it. That also assumes everyone's telling the truth. I've worked in the NFL. I've been alive now for 40 years. Fucking people lie all the time when a lot's on the line.

I'm not acting like they're lying, but if we want to assume the referee is completely screwed up, I'm cool with that. I agree. Let's say he lied because he claimed the opposite, right? 70 said he was eligible when 68 claimed he told him. Regardless. Let's assume what's his name, Brad Allen or Jeff Allen,

is lying. He knew what was wrong, was overwhelmed, said the wrong. number. The moment he says the wrong number, Dallas doesn't pay attention to 68. So why is he wide open in the corner of the end zone? They don't know. So yeah, it's a debacle. What, what are supposed to do? Replay the fucking game? Like, what are we supposed to do? Be really mad? I've been really mad as a gambler for a long time at the referees. It doesn't, it's part of the deal. It sucks. I think, yeah, you got screwed, right? I guess you got screwed in the sense that you didn't

you have a chance to run the play. That is a fact. You got screwed that you didn't get a chance to run your real play. Two things. I'm no Bill Belichick here rules expert. If they had reported him correctly, people have said he's uncovered. Meaning you can't be the last guy in the line of scrimmage and be uncovered. So it would have been an illegal formation.

Could be wrong there, not a formation expert. But if that's true, you ran a play. that's not even legal. And like I said, let's assume the play is legal if the Cowboys, you have to tell the other team, the guy who's actually,

because when I say, so and so is eligible, what's usually happening? That guy is going to potentially impact the passing game, right? Go out on a pass route. They didn't know. They didn't know.

Not their fault. Not necessarily your fault because he said it, but let's not act it's the play. That play worked. And the referee just screwed you. Like, it worked because the Cowboys had no fucking clue. None. One of the better defenses in the league, no clue.

None. So nonchalant, like, okay, you guys are all assuming. And listen, listen, I have a lot of respect for Dan Campbell. The organization is awful. One thing when you're used to sucking, and I hate to break it to you, you're used to being really, really bad. And even you'd have to acknowledge that, assuming you're a Detroit fan. man. It's easy to get like you're always getting screwed guy.

Like we're always getting screwed. No, it's like part of some of this is on you. And listen, it's not like your fault that the ref can't handle it, but he couldn't handle it. When you deal with incompetence, you have to go out of your way. Telling some guy in pregame warmups, like it's four hours later.

Dan Campbell keeps saying that. Okay, great. He forgot. How often in any industry you go, well, I told the guy to do this. Well, yeah, he didn't. So we got a problem now. So you better make sure you sent three guys over to them. These referees are morons and completely overwhelmed.

Most of them probably shouldn't be in their job. But you did that on purpose. To try to throw off Dallas. Why? Because when you tell them that Taylor Decker is eligible, what do you think they're going to do? Just let Taylor Decker walk to the corner of the end zone. Oh, Taylor, good luck.

Hopefully they throw it to you, see if you can catch it. Or do you think one of the Dallas Cowboys would have gone with him? We're not talking about the Carolina Panthers here. I'm talking about a pretty good team, pretty well coached. Dan Quinn, the highest paid defensive coordinator in the league. I think it's fair to assume at best a 50-50 chance that play works. Is that fair to say? Like, is that fair?

Because this notion that it's just 100% working is fucking laughable to me. It's just factually incorrect. That's not how it works. That plays hard to work. Did I say it a little nonchalantly? Yeah. Because when I go to react immediately after a game, I don't watch three hours of the press conferences.

I'm just reacting, watched it in real time, and as I've had time to like kind of let it marinate, did you get screwed by incompetence? In a sense, yes. Did you completely lose the game, though, in that situation? No. In what world, once that, things screws up, is he going for it from the seven yard line?

Explain that one to me. And I'm pro going for it. I'm with Dan Campbell's a good coach. I defended him when all these elitists in the media are calling him some meathead, you know, dudes just chews on nails and, you know, slams the bench press. I'm like, this guy's pretty high-level dude. But to go for it from the seven-yard line is a Brandon Staley level move. that's a joke

because it's like, okay, you totally got screwed. Welcome to life. But then that happens, and you find yourself, okay, kick a field goal, get into overtime, we're just as good as this team, why can't we win? This isn't the old overtime. Hell, we get the ball first, we score games over. We hold them a field goal, get the ball,

score, we win. Like, you're not in some lock just to lose an overtime, and to go for it from the seven-year-old lane, and then you get bailed out again. So I just, I'm tired of this conversation. Because it always gets back to, well, the play worked. Well, kind of. I mean, the play worked because they didn't know the correct information.

Okay, triple OG listener, since before your Matt Nagy interview. Wow, it's a long time ago. You were talking recently about segment ideas. About in the middle, another idea might be to lean into your scouting player evaluations. I think we'll get into that during the draft. maybe struggling quarterback, a single game, player stretch, or time even, and give us mechanical or technical reasons.

I think the problem with that is I've been in this game long enough, and this is why this podcast, I mean, we get into the details on individual games sometimes when we react. But, like, I've seen in the business X's and O's stuff, and one, that doesn't really excite me that much, and two, that fails. And luckily, like, I like talking bigger picture coaches, players, you know, the main stories of the league.

Like, that interests me. That type stuff. I guess I simply just talk about what interests me and sometimes getting too into the weeds is stuff that I wouldn't listen to. I try to talk about stuff that I'd want to listen to. So I think, you know, segment ideas, the middle, the herd hierarchy,

I just, I haven't quite figured that one out. I don't want to just do the middle. Everyone does a top 10 ranking, like, who really cares? It's the same. It's like the Niners and the Ravens and then everybody else. Like, what else is it saying? Like, you know, I got the, I got the cowboys,

a slightly over the lions, I got the chiefs right behind them, it's like, what? Anything that does matter? Now, maybe I'm an idiot. Maybe it would work. Maybe we sell it. I don't know. Maybe I'm the idiot.

But I think sometimes, we're definitely going to figure some out in this upcoming year, but we'll just let it happen organically. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment.

and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it.

Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because. of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence.

Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your Yeah, it's bang out a couple more questions. My question is, with technology and AI becoming so advanced,

could we see more automated refereeing in the national footballing? I think this debacle could have been avoided if Dan Campbell can enter 68 is eligible into an iPad. Sure, some calls are subjective like pass interference. We can't allow a simple thing like misunderstanding which player said something to a referee, change the outcome of a massive game. Yeah, I don't think that's crazy. So you just enter in in this play on something specific like that,

68 is eligible. And then maybe the stadium announces, 68 is eligible. And all the coaches know, something like that, meaning the other team. But the whole point of acknowledging who's eligible

is so the defense knows. It's like fairness. It's why when a headset goes down, the other team has to take off their headset. I mean, the Cowboys did not know. So yeah, the Lions are mad because they knew where to go, but the Cowboys didn't. So, yeah, I'm not opposed to that on a situation like that, or maybe it automatically goes to, because you could argue it's a little bit archaic the way that you have to go to the referee, no different than Tony looking down the sideline.

Could there be some automation to it? Yeah, maybe we're headed there. Listen, people are going to hate to hear this, but Part of the reason the NFL's king is because there's a lot of drama. And listen, I understand if you're a Lions fan being pissed off, but it's actually kind of healthy for the league because it's like tangible stuff on the field, but legit off-the-field drama.

I didn't have a dog in that race. So people think I'm crazy, but I don't know. Everyone just keeps acting like the cowboys. We're just going to lose. And maybe they would have. But maybe they wouldn't have. I don't think the NFL will want to make crazy change.

So how about instead of opposing team getting the ball at the 20, they get it at the 5? I thought if I have, oh, changing the fumble of the end zone rule. If the defense actually recovers in the end zone, they get it at the 20. But if it goes out of bounds, through the end zone, put it at the 5. You know, it doesn't totally bother me. I'm cool with certain things being kind of

aggressively enforced. And that just seems like, listen, this is a risk-reward play. You want to reach the ball over the corner of the end zone, that's all on you. You get a touchdown. You score points. But if that ball starts coming out of your hands before you reach that pylon in the corner,

you're screwing your team really bad. That's kind of the way the life works. You can take a lot of risks Listen, bet a lot of money on Washington What if they lose? You're screwed Right? It's it's There has to be something that comes with that I have no problem with it going to the 20 yard one

It's one of those rules that just doesn't bother me Seriously doesn't I get much more bothered by the pass interference rule That if you commit pass interference You know 50 yards down the field and no one ever was going to catch the ball that you get a 50-yard play. That's so stupid to me.

The reaching the ball over the end zone or a fumble right before, I kind of like it. It adds an element of the game that it's just a massive, massive swing play because it's a big play if it converts, right? If you score a touchdown,

like that's just touchdown in a game is a massive moment. Most NFL games are a one-score game going into the fourth quarter. So it really doesn't bother me at all. your thoughts on the fact that the league has turned into a quarterback league, even though there have been some teams who will win with just competent quarterbacking, are we giving those guys too much credit?

Hasn't always kind of been a quarterback league? I mean, seriously, even the great teams, even before I was alive, had pretty good quarterbacks. Right, like, who are the teams, the best teams in the 70s? Raiders, Kenny Stabler. He's in the Hall of Fame. Honestly, it took him too long to get in. The Steelers won a bunch of Super Bowls.

Terry Bradshaw is a pretty good player. Cowboys, Roger Stalbock. Not bad. Think about the 80s. Right, Elway, Marino, Montana, even on the lesser version, like Phil Sims,

who was probably closer to, like, a game manager, but then definitely, as I kind of came into my own as a sports fan, all the best teams had the best quarterback. Brett Far, Troy Aikman,

Steve Young, even like the year, Drew Bledso when the Patriots made it with Bill Parcells to obviously this generation. It's always been a very, very important part of the sport. If you don't have a really good quarterback, there have been some NBA teams that have won it without Steph Curry or LeBron James.

Your team better be pretty stacked. Most of the time, you have to have an all-time great player. But every once in a while, you just get a team a bunch of good players and they come together perfectly. And it just works. Right? It happens sometimes in football. For the most part, though, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Aaron Rogers, Patrick Mahomes,

you know, even this year, like Lamar Jackson, Brock Purdy would be an example of, now his career, he's only in his second year, we'll see how it plays out. He might be an example of, oh, it's kind of a one-hit wonder, or he'll go on to become a really good NFL quarterback for years. You've mentioned in the past that you listened to a few entrepreneur finance podcast. Any recommendations? People always ask me this. I think I've said it a million times

I will comment to him individually but I would say Josh Brown's compound and friends is one of my go-toes they do something on Tuesday and Friday that's really good and animal spirits which is under their umbrella too is good haven't missed an episode in four or five years

this guy's a loyal guy as a scout was there a particular position you were assigned to scout what did you look for at that position what positions do you feel are the easiest for the hardest to scout. When you do an area, like if you have the West Coast,

you just do all the players. So you do every position. Right? So if I have, you know, California, Oregon, Washington, Utah, for example. So you basically have the Pack 12 in the Mountain West conferences,

New Mexico, Arizona. You, if I go into USC, I do everyone from Caleb Williams to their offensive line to their defensive line to you do every position. Obviously, quarterback is a deal difficult position to, you know, to evaluate. I'd say the easiest positions, in my opinion,

were defensive linemen and wide receivers. I would say the difficult positions were corner and safety. It's just a very nuanced position in terms of coverages, what they're asked to do, you know, specific skill sets work for certain defenses and don't work for other defenses. But I think the line of scrimmage, when you know what type of offense or defense, your defense, you know, or lines line coaches want, it's pretty easy. Relative. I mean, then there's a huge factor in like this is a skill set translate. And then you also got to factor in the person, how hard he works, how much he likes football,

how much he cares about football, how much he wants to do this, how hard he can get coached, how willing he is to improve, like all the intangible stuff is always difficult because you're dealing with human beings. and the reason you have so many draft where the guy does not become a good player is because usually miss on the person as much as the player. I was actually texting with an assistant coach today and he's on one of the best teams of the league.

I'm like how important is wiring for coaching your guys, he's like it's everything. Obviously you get the highest level a lot of guys are talented. Now some guys are better than others, but he's like the wiring is the difference in the big games, in the big moments, the guys that want it and the guys that don't.

The guys who have prepared and the guys who have given everything to be ready for those moments and the guys that have kind of skated by. And it typically shows. And I think it's why a lot of the good teams stay good and a lot of the average teams and below average teams suck because they don't know what they're looking for in players. Assuming we make it out of the NFC championship

as a Niners fan, who do you think would be the best matchup for the Niners and the Super Bowl? Obviously, Baltimore smoked us on Christmas, but I do believe we'd be better prepared, and Kyle won't make the same mistake of not giving it to McCaffrey, more. And I think the defense will film and in a game experience to help prepare for Lamar and their offense, so I would like our chances in a rematch. I think Buffalo would be kind of scary because of Allen and their defense.

I don't think Kansas City is making out of the second round. I loki think Cleveland would give Baltimore its best fight in the playoffs and make it, and could make it out of the AFC. Another team we lost to, interested in your thoughts. Well, if Cleveland made to the Super Bowl, obviously they'd be playing unreal, and they beat the Niners. They are...

The Browns and the Ravens are two teams that can beat the Niners because they can match the physicality. And they've proven that this year. They can go toe to toe with the Niners. The Niners shove everyone around in the NFC, why they're going to be huge favorites in all these NFC games. but AFC North teams, those two teams specifically,

and honestly the Bengals, when they were healthier and Joe Burrell was playing, they beat the shit out of the Niners. So it's like you just have these physical teams who are mentally tough. It's hard. Now, I think the Ravens game would look a lot different. I think that would be a hard game. I think I would like the Niners' chances against Flacco, but I would like to see the Ravens game,

simply because I think that's just the best. Like, big picture. You know, people often ask, are you a Niner fan? Yeah, I mean, I root for them. Most people in my life are, but it's so different now. Like, if you told me that if something happened to them,

but my podcast would have more success talking about someone else, I have no problem. Like, I'm kind of selfish that way doing this. Like, the Niners, like, it's easy for me to root for them and want them to do well and like talking about them because they're a big brand. People care. But,

I legitimately think easily they're the best team in the NFC and I think it would be an unreal Super Bowl rematch of like a decade ago when Harbaugh faced his brother but these are the two best teams now you're right I think the bills they're a team to keep an eye on but what's weird about them is like I didn't buy into them and then you watch them play the Cowboys

are like God if they play like that in the last two weeks against the Chargers and the Patriots so who are they I mean I'm really confident I'm like oh they're going to beat the dolphins would I bet would I just bet on Washington to beat the Texas

to beat Texas on the bills to beat the Miami Dolphus? I wouldn't because they make me, they can be weird and Josh can be weird. Like Josh can, sometimes the stat line, you look early on in that game

against the Patriots the other day, I looked at him's like, I forget the exact numbers, but they were really bad. I'm like, what is going on? And then you watch them sometimes, you're like, is this guy the best player in the NFL?

So they're a team that it just depends what team you get. If they're off, nine or six. would beat the shit out of them. If they're on, fuck, they could beat anybody in the league. Mailbag ponderance. Are we sure Sean Payton was solely

interested in the Chargers a year ago? There was a lot of talk with McVeigh going to Amazon. Sean McVeigh confirmed he will return in 24. Isn't weird, this guy's 37 years old? He just made the playoffs and he's going to get asked like every year like, Sean, are you coming back? Sean, are you just going to go chill

with your wife and your kid somewhere? He's like, bro, what else are you going to do? Why wouldn't you coach? You're a good coach? Sean, stay in the NFL. Now, I get it. I've done different professions. Maybe he's just bored. Maybe he wants a new challenge.

Bored would be the wrong way to put it. Maybe he's just, you know, kind of strung out. He's on fumes in the NFL, but I'm glad he's coming back. So he could have tried to get that job. He would have had more opposition with less Sneed, having a ring, and the team needed more of a rebuild, but Cronky and Sneed are always playing to win. He wouldn't have had personnel control. Additionally, would he have tolerated the Spanos family being cheap?

Peyton looking for a better ownership group potentially. Sorry, I'm long-winded. You know, I think where the Spanos is really screwed up is he was living in L.A. They blew that game to the Jags last year. They had a what,

27 to 7 lead at halftime? Was it 27 to nothing? Under no circumstances. And then you lose. And we all know Brian Staley's not. Like everyone knows. It's not one of those things that like, oh, this couple podcasters thing he sucks. No, I was like, Pretty clear.

Fans, teams run the league. They're like, what's this guy's deal? And they rolled it backwards. And you had Sean Payton right there, give him $90 million. He has this Bronco team currently at 8 and 8. I understand they had a million injuries. You're telling me the Chargers wouldn't have been... That's an excuse.

It really is. And then to let him go to a team in your own division, that's scary for the Chargers. I'm not confident they're going to get Arbor. I'm really not. So when he got on to the Rams, I definitely could see that. I mean, I'm sure he likes Matt Stafford, Cronky Pays, could have stayed in L.A. I think it's all going to work out for him in Denver in a weird way.

They might take a little bit of step back next year as they reset, but I think he went in there knowing, like, I want to get real Russell Wilson. And that's inevitably what he did. Big fan of the pod. Born and raised in Modesto, California. right down the road from where I grew up. Just wanted to know if you could give any advice on getting a job in sports, whether it's anything for a particular sports team or anything in media. I just feel like that is an industry that you're either in it or you're not.

You know, I've had young people that follow me, you know, like college kids ask me this advice over the years. And one thing crystallized when I was talking to someone the other day, the key is if you want to go in, you can't have any other options. Because the moment you go work in another industry, like when I first got at Fresno State and then even with Philly, my first year with the Eagles, I made like $25,000.

I had multiple degrees. I had friends working in Silicon Valley making hundreds of thousands of dollars, buying homes. I mean, if it wasn't for Jeffrey Lurie not charging us Tupperware to take home, I wouldn't have been able to eat. Because I worked for a team, I had a free gym, and I could shower there. I had no money.

I had so many friends, girls and girls guys crushing it in San Francisco. But I didn't care. Like I liked my job. It was incredible to be doing what I was doing. But I didn't have any other options. And whenever I talked to someone like, you know, I really want to do this,

but it's not going that well. I think I'm going to take a job with Wells Fargo or I'm going to take a job with this. It's easy to like you start doing that. They're going to pay a lot more early on. And it's going to be hard to. ever pivot. Because the older you get, right? You get to 30, all of a sudden you got a fiance or you have a one-year-old. It's hard to ever do this job because early on it pays nothing.

I don't care whether you're a coach. I don't care whether you're a production assistant at Fox. I don't care what you do. You don't make any money. Even at these other industries when you start at the lower end of the totem pole, if you go work for Merrill Lynch or UBS or whatever your industry is, you're going to make some stuff. substantially more, even if relative to the industry, it's low. So you just, you got to find a way in. And I would say I was just not going to be denied. I didn't know how I was going to do it.

It's not like my dad was some NFL coach or, you know, my cousins ran a radio station. I didn't know anybody in any of these industries. I just, I just was nuts, found a way. Luckily, it all kind of worked out. But I didn't have any other options. Like I, early on in college, I realized, I don't want to do anything else. The crazy thing is as I've gotten older, I've gained more interests.

I remember taking business classes in college being kind of bored, accounting classes, you know, econ classes that now would interest me much more. But part of it is like I need to do it for myself. I need to be in the trenches. I need to experience it myself. Classroom was just not the way I learned. But I would say going to college enabled me to get my foot in the door. So I'm not a huge higher education guy, but it's,

does open more doors in the sense of you want to work in sports like you go to college you can work for the athletic department which is what I did then I started working for the football program and then that led me to Fresno State of a higher program working for the football team so you just you can't have other options because it's one of those kind of professions that will weed you out fast because early on no one makes anything and the other thing is the hours and the days are kind of weird right it's just games are on nonstop. And so when you're working for a team, you're going to those games. So if you, like, if you, let's say you work in baseball, I mean, talking every day for six months.

Even in football, like, oh, Thanksgiving, you're not home with your family. Christmas, you might not be home with your family. Even if you're in the media, like you're at the game covering it or helping out or doing something. So there are perks with every job. There are also things that aren't as great. Right? Like I saw Albert Breer tweeting. Like I hope the NFL is not on Christmas next year.

Albert Brewer loves football. He covers football. He's really good at it. And his point was like, I just want to spend Christmas with my family. And it's like, I like Albert, but it's like,

well, so does Kyle Shanning. Right. So would, Seriani. But it's like, this is kind of the business we chose. Like,

it's kind of the deal, you know? You think Steph Curry wants to be playing hoops on Christmas or rather to be with his family? Kind of the deal. So, I mean, it's just,

it's an industry that, one, you've got to be willing to make a lot of sacrifices when you're young with no money. So realize that you've got to pass up a lot of things that if you have a friend base, that sometimes it's easy in life to compare yourself to the people you know, making more money, having more success, you know, maybe doing things that you can't financially do, having free time that you don't, you're like, wait, they're paying a hundred grand, I'm making $35,000. You get the weekends off, I'm grinding my ass on the weekends. I just, I kind of just blinders on, unfazed by that.

It can break you. I'm not saying that there were times like, what am I doing? Now looking back, I wouldn't be able to do that at 39 years old, but I was able to do that at 25 years. So another key to me is you've got to be young when you start. Like it's hard, you're not going to break in at 36, right? It's hard to pivot. But if you can break in, you know, around the college age,

when you're just kind of young, dumb, and hungry, and you don't care. You're willing to do anything. You're like, ah, shit, we're working tomorrow, let's go. You just want to be there. That's, to me, the key, right? And like I said, I think college introduction, somehow, wherever you're going to college,

is the easiest way. But that's just my experience. Maybe some people did it other ways. A lot of people set me their Washington bets. You guys are welcome. You guys are welcome. I don't watch an unhealthy amount of football for four months on Saturdays for no reason. I try to pick up a thing or two.

People often ask like, how do you bet on golf? Well, I watch every tournament. How did I bet on watching? Well, I've watched a lot of their snaps over the last two years. Watch a lot of Texas too. I watch a lot of football. I've got to put it to you somehow, besides just talking about it. Might as well gamble on it.

Okay, last question. In an alternate universe or crazy trade before Brock gets the bag, he ends up on the Broncos with Sean Payton Sean Payton with his second Drew Breeze at the beginning of his career this coming from a Niner fan by the way that would be mind-blowing here's the problem with that alternate universe

why would Kyle get rid of Brock Purdy that would be my thing now things change in the NFL you have some moments like you're seeing it with the Eagles like God, things are happening so things can change in football when you start losing but as long as you're winning

you usually just keep it rolling right and that's just it's just the way it is. Even when things get weird, right? You're just like, you're just going to keep it rolling, keep it rolling, keep it rolling. It's why the conversation about Lamar Jackson makes me laugh when everyone's this offseason is like, why did no one, you mean because they were going to get denied by the Ravens? Like, what were the Ravens going to do at quarterback?

Contracts are contentious. Talking a lot of money. We're not signing a $100,000 or $100,000 deal here. We're talking hundreds of millions of dollars. No businesses just give that away. not the way the world works. So yeah, it gets ugly. It gets emotional. We're dealing with human beings.

Right? But no team was going to trade for Lamar Jackson. They would have said, sorry, we're keeping them and we'll match the offer. That was always going to happen. Teams knew it. The media's like, I can't believe. What? They didn't make an offer to get denied? You think the rave? Oh yeah, just give us your two first rounders. Take Lamar Jackson. We'll just play with fucking Huntley

Huntley and Middlecough. We'll figure it out. What are we talking about? They weren't comfortable paying him a lot of money. For a period of time in his career, I kind of agreed with him. Clearly now, you're like, oh, it's no-brainer. It's always easier to have hindsight. So I understood to play hardball. We all do it in parts of our life.

Why can't NFL teams do it? Not everyone's always getting screwed, you know? Sometimes that's on as my mother calls it, the X channel. Everyone always thinks everyone's getting screwed. Like, no, in the big leagues we're talking, like Russell Wilson didn't get screwed. He got $150 million to be average as the day as long. If anything, he fleeced the Broncos. So he did not get screwed.

They simply ask him a business proposition, remove the injury guarantee, or benching you. And then they realized that they would get in trouble with the PA, so they played it out. They never liked them. Sean Payton didn't sign him to that contract. I've been in a situation twice lost my job when new management comes in. Newsflash, new management comes in. you can get in trouble really quick in terms of your job status. Why? They like other people. Welcome to life. Especially if you're not like some premium star in the organization.

And Russell Wilson, and I was just at the time making in those buildings like 60 grand and 100 grand, you start making 50 million and they go, wait, we're paying this guy 50 million and he's producing like he's worth 22 million. This doesn't add up. That's the business. there in to figure out like your production better be somewhere close to what I'm paying you. The moment it's under, we start questioning do you stay on the team. The moment it's way under, we get rid of you. The way sports works, especially in the NFL. And Russell made out like a bandit.

It got made a hundred plus million dollars there. It was awful. Awful would be strong. Was awful last year. Was serviceable this year. But serviceable, I mean, what did Russell Wilson when you watched him play? not his stats when you watched him play. What do you look like?

$15 million quarterback? 15, I meant. Not 50. 15. 18, maybe? Not what he was making. You know? Not what he was making.

So we were hard on deck when he was making $40 million. And Dak's throwing lethal league in touchdowns most of years. Is this guy good enough? If Russell's like dinking and dunk, he's making like $48 million. What a world. The volume.

Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan,

so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of taun tons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith Rule of Two. Listen to Stuff to Blow Your Mind on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever,

you get your podcast. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.