The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 3 and Out - Baker to Panthers Reaction, USC B1G Defection, RIP Pac-12

Episode Date: July 7, 2022

John reacts to Baker Mayfield getting dealt from the Browns to the Panthers, and how Baker and Darnold can co-exist. He also gives his take on USC’s defection to the B1G, how UCLA can become relevant from the move and his thoughts on the death of the Pac-12 from the perspective of a lifelong West Coast sports fan, and who’s to blame. #herd Subscribe NOW and follow Middlekauff and The Volume on Twitter, Instagram and YouTube for the latest content. It's always  FanDuel for the best wagering action!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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What is going on, everybody? John Middilcock's three and out podcast. How we doing? A lot of you guys have been asking, firing in my DMs, Tweeting at me. Where is the podcast, John? What are you doing?

I need some football content. And to you, I said, you know, I've been just detached from reality, like a football coach. Like Shanahan, Andy, Belichick, McVeigh, you name it. Once OTA's end, we kind of detach. Now, they have training camp starts in late July. I have podcasts that need to happen when news breaks. And news broke. Several things happened.

One, I'd been waiting to put out on Friday, but because of the news. that happened with Baker Mayfield, I said, you know what? We will grab the MacBook Pro. We will grab my microphone and we will press record and we will speak words into a computer and put it out to the people today. Because I got some things I need to get off my chest. Partly because Baker Mayfield was traded in USC and UCLA were not traded. They actively left, which, you know, I'll dive into it in depth.

but I'm probably one of the very few people that talk for a living in the sports umbrella who truly care about the PAC 12, who it means a lot to. Because a lot of people, let's face it, that talk for a living group, it feels like they're north, from the northeast, northeast elites, as I call them.

Maybe even the South too. Us West coasters like me, Coward and Gottlieb, you don't care about West Coast sports. I mean, we just do. Like Doug said, I'm like one of the only guys to talk about the charges for 10 years. Collin's been talking about Seattle, Seattle, C, I mean, before they were even popular.

So he was on USC Trojans 15 years ago. And the PAC 12 means a lot to me, but we'll dive into it all. But we got to start with Baker Mayfield, who again, ad John Middlecoff is my Instagram firing those DMs. We'll probably have a Middilcoff mail back out this weekend. So we'll get back on the train. Get back on the train. We got bills to pay.

You know, can't be off for too long. As well as Greg McElroy, former Alabama quarterback national champion. actually drafted by the New York Jets once upon a time will be on Monday. We talked to him last week. He'll come on... I never understand why people... People always like,

how are we going to tell people when the interview... I don't know, I'll just tell them. We interviewed him two weeks ago. Who cares? People on radio always love acting like something's live when it's not live. Like, that's not really how I roll. We hang our hat.

Like, one thing I agree with Draymond Green, authenticity. You know, people in the media have always loved lying to you. It's like, yeah, I talked to Greg McElroy last week. we'll play it on Monday. It's not that complicated.

Pretty easy. But I think the old school thought is like, pretend it's live. Well, it's not live. We talked to them two weeks ago. About seven things have happened since. So when you hear Greg McElroy, that was before the USC and UCLA defection? I mean, I think that could be considered that.

But let's start with Baker Mayfield. A lot of different angles here. Let's just start with the Carolina Panthers acquiring Baker Mayfield for, I think, when I read a fifth round pick, and he took a $3 million pay cut, the Browns were eating $10 million of it, the Panthers are paying them like three and a half. On the most basic element of any business transaction

and the National Football League is a business, and they are acquiring players who are assets who make money, who go under the salary cap. We all understand that. The profit is not made on what you sell something for. It's what you pay for it. it's why if you sold a house last year for a million dollars you didn't like your profit wasn't in the million dollar sale it was oh you bought it in 2011 for 375,000 dollars so you made

$625,000 profit you made that profit because of what you purchased it for not what you sold it for and I think a lot of people get that kind of convoluted in their head that profits are made at the point of sale. Right now, we are in recession, depend on how you just find it, whatever. Economic chaos is ensuing, right? The stock market is in, I mean, I think it had the worst six months in like only other five times in American history. So you could say, well, in 10 years, there are going to be several of these stocks that have become 10 baggers, 20 baggers, people are going to be like, oh my God, I should have bought this. Well, you have the opportunity right now. And honestly, it could get worse.

So don't be the guy complaining in five years, because you can make the purchase on something right now for really cheap. Just a reality. And Baker Mayfield could have been had for nothing. And the entire league has been saying for a long period of time, they didn't think it was worth it. Now, like a lot of the stocks on the stock market, hell, I've been reinvesting a lot over the last six months as things have gone down. I'm going to lose some money. I'm okay with that. But I promise you this, I'm going to hit a couple ten baggers.

I know that for a fact. Minimum one, it's going to happen. And if you take enough swings, and I'll give the Carolina Panthers credit on this. They've traded for two guys in back-to-back years. Now, last year they gave a second round pick, partly because Donald's value was higher. But he was the third pick in the draft.

And now they're trading for a pick for a guy that was picked number one overall. So what it took to acquire these guys four years ago, you had to pay premiums for. Now we have information since. Sam Darnold has been a disaster. Now you can blame it on the coaching. Baker Mayfield has actually had some positive moments,

but clearly I think we question, do his teammates like him? Does he get along with people? What's his deal, bro? But the reality is both these guys once upon a time were valued like a lot of money. If you put it into just financial terms, they were worth a million dollars.

Well, Sam Darnold last year was had for what? 700 grand. What did they just get Baker Mayfield for the equivalent? If he was once a million dollar home, $100,000, they got him for nothing. Now, unlike the home analogy, it's not that black and white. Because ultimately, these people need to get along, and it's going to be complicated. But I do understand taking a swing for a guy when you're paying nothing

and letting two guys that were once valued very, very highly. One went to Oklahoma, dominated, the other went to USC, had their only bright moment of the last decade and dominated. And I was a big Sam Donald fan. I might be wrong. I actually like Baker Mayfield a lot. I thought he was the next Drew Breeze. Clearly I'm wrong, because part of Drew Breeze was the guy.

And I think we questioned Baker Mayfield the guy. I don't. His own team does. His own front office does. Like, that's not an opinion. That's a fact. But the Carolina Panthers, let's face it, they're desperate. What's the famous saying is if you have two quarterbacks, you actually have none,

that is kind of where they're at. And I'll say right now, I think Matt Rule is much more likely to be coaching at UCLA next year. than he is the Carolina Panthers. So if that's the situation you're in, you're on somewhat of, quote, unquote, a sinking ship, you might as well take a swing. And there isn't any swings to really be had. Because ultimately they were in the Deshawn Watson sweepstakes.

They got lucky they didn't get into that thing. And ultimately, their owner balked because he wasn't going to pay the money. So this is easily their next best option, him or Jimmy Garoppola. Now, I think the Jimmy Garoppolo thing, you know, Jimmy Garoppel is more expensive. There's way more money. They're paying $3 million for Baker Mayfield. Jimmy Garoppolo's, his salary is $27 million.

So I don't think there's any way, former fashion, they would be able to get Jimmy Garoppel for $3 million. So if you look it through a vacuum of business sense, I get it. Now, ultimately, is this going to work? I don't see how it's possible for it to work. Because it's one thing in college,

and even in college. Now these guys have the chance to transfer. You get two quarterbacks in the same room. One guy wins the job. the other guy immediately quits. He immediately leaves. And we can argue over whether it's right or wrong. It's just the reality of what happens now.

When you don't win the job in college football, you immediately transfer. It's why some of these quarterbacks in like three or four years, we're going to have whole crops of guys that played on three teams. It used to happen way less because you had to sit out and now they don't have to sit out. Now, ultimately, Baker Mayfield or Sam Darnold, they don't win the job. They're not just going to quit. They're going to be the backup.

But it's just neither one of these guys have ever been. been the backup before. They've both been immediate starters the moment they got in the league and they both, you know, Baker Mayfield started for three years for Lincoln Riley. Sam Donald started for several years at USC. They've been a starter their entire life. So are they equipped to just transition

into that when in their mind? Because they are still young. Do they believe that they are backups? But like, what else do they have the risk? I mean, Matt Rule's job? He's probably going to get fired anyway. So this was his best option that wasn't going to cost that much money because they don't have that much money or

draft picks to play with. And there's not anyone else to mess with. Beside Jimmy Garoppel, who costs way more because of salary, even with Baker-Mayfield taking a little bit of a pay cut, is still $10 million more at $27 million. So I think the Browns, if they do strike oil, they will have struck it for very, very cheap. Now, again, with the housing analogy, both these guys' contracts are over because they're in their fifth-year options.

So there are more variables here. but like what else were they supposed to do? I don't think Carolina is going to be very good. I would be shocked if this quarterback situation is very smooth. Now, these guys would technically know each other a little bit just because of the draft process. They were both in the combine at the same time. Now they're from different parts.

Baker grew up in Texas. Sam grew up in California. But, you know, I think both these guys have a shitload on the line. Their careers are on the line. because whoever doesn't win the job, let's face it, is going to be just viewed as a backup quarterback moving forward. And whoever does win the job,

if he's not good, the other guy will get a chance to play and his career will be also viewed as a backup quarterback. So basically the only way one of these two guys is not viewed as a backup quarterback moving forward is he has to win the job and then play well. Any other outcome is a disaster for really both guys because the other guy's on the bench.

So it's just, you know, they pay, nothing and I'm always for taking risks on assets when you don't pay much money. It's why, listen, right now, the housing market, things are coming back to earth. It's why people are like, why have you moved yet? Because I waited. Now, I'm not Nostradamus. I didn't know this was going to happen, but I had people mentoring me that said, listen, I've been in this business for a while, things go up and things go down. And everyone's like, things will never come down again. It's like, pick up a history book. I mean, go go to Google. Things go up.

now, are they going to crash like 08? No. But it's like if I were told you a year ago, stop buying stocks, save your money, you've been like, are you crazy? Up, up, up, up. Hell, I bought into that. Look what happened. Down, down, down, down. So I like buying things when they're down in general. Now, of course, to get elite players, you have to pay premiums. Like, you're not, you know, you want to get Kevin Durant, you got to pay a lot of money. You know, you want to get Nick Bosa, you got to pay a lot of money. You want to trade for Cleal Mac. You got to pay a lot of money. But those guys are outliers. Most things go up and they go down.

And the quarterback situation, when you're desperate, you got to think, I don't even know if this is thinking outside the box, but you got to do some risky shit because ultimately I would bet against this working. I do not see Sam Darnold and Baker Mayfield being some like quarterback tandem. This isn't college football. That's not how it works. And ultimately, I would bet on Matt Rule this would be his last season in Carolina.

I mean, I don't expect him to like be some long-term guy there. Now, we'll see, the NFC, a little more open now. But, yeah, I'll be shocked. It'll be very, a lot of pressure on both these two guys to kind of get along and figure it out while competing. It's just a tough situation. The baseball season is here. This baseball season turn K's into cash and big hits into big wins with Fandual Sportsbook. Right now, new customers can step up to the plate with no sweat first bet up to 1,000.

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Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media.

Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators,

and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast,

it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, Follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away,

such as the biology of tontons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to stuff to blow your mind, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush

didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here,

unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 was big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so you know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line.

We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. back at it on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Conference realignment, there are so many angles of this. On the most basic level, I just

ask the question. Because when you see the story, and listen, I was shocked. Like, I would say most people was like, what? USC and UCLA are leaving before you even like, factor in like, well, the TV money and the revenue sharing, all you see is the little kid in me. Because again, And this is sometimes why I need to detach from sports, because I look through everything through the lens of money and how it impacts the business, how it impacts my business, angles I'm going to talk about it. Instead of just being like the little kid of like, damn, that's crazy. USC and UCLA are no longer going to play Oregon, Oregon State, Washington, Washington State,

Cal, Stanford. They're going to play Illinois, Maryland, Rutgers, Michigan, Michigan State. Like, that's kind of crazy. And that was, I think, most people's first reaction before. It's like, well, if you add the Fox revenue sharing and the TV market, and again, that's ultimately where I go to. But on my first reaction, I'm sure like you, was, holy shit, that's wild. Then, after I take a deep breath, it's something I've, as I've gotten older, and this is,

I've been listening to Coward for 20 years, and one of his big things, back in his, back when he was becoming a star, you know, I was like, who's this Colin Coward guy? He's got a lot of interesting takes. I remember, like, being, like, late in college, because he was very smart. and it used to have this thing say take the emotion out of it. And as you get older, you have to do that. The number one advice I would give anyone starting a business, involved in their own business, as an employee for a business,

is the faster you can learn to take the emotion out of it, the faster you can kind of play this rig game that we're all in, in the world of capitalism. Because when you get emotional, it's one thing to be emotional with your family, and even that sometimes, you've got to separate it. But in business, the faster you can take the emotion out of it, the faster you can get clarity and figure out what's going to,

on. So after the initial sticker shock, which I'm not, I'm acknowledging that I had. I felt like a little kid. I was pissed off. It's like they're leaving us. Why would they do this? The Trojans, screw you. UCLA, I used to love you. You can't leave this conference. Once I took a deep breath, you realize, does it really matter? Honestly, just say it out loud. Does it really matter? and I think the conclusion I've come to now, I'm recording this July 6th, whatever, we're a week removed, maybe a little less, I don't know if it really does. Because I used to think, when I worked in radio, we had the Raiders. And that was when the Raiders were trying to move to L.A. And L.A. and the league said, you're not going to be allowed to move here, you and Dean.

Like, Dean, you're going to have to go on Cronkey's backside, but you're not coming here with Raiders. Find another home. And I'll give, well, mark credit. Ultimately, Jerry Jones, the league helped set them up. but they got to Vegas. And I remember a lot of people around here, including myself, because again, I had a bias,

I had an agenda, I was in the business, I didn't want to lose them. I like to have in two teams, my backyard was like, this is going to fail, this is going to work, you're screwing the people.

Years later, the smartest thing they ever did. It actually helped the franchise survive because they would not have survived around here, and obviously they weren't allowed to go to L.A. And I was probably as loud and as big of a critic for the teams moving to L.A. as anybody because I've lived 35 in my 37 years in the state of California.

I know the way our people think. I know the way West Coast people are wired. I've lived in the Northeast. I just know how different we are, even though I personally have some similarities. But for most of us, we're a lot different than out there. Now, we do love pro sports, but ultimately we love winners. And why the Rams have succeeded twofold, one, their venue is remarkable. Having gone to that thing, it is.

It might be the cool. stadium I've ever been to. And two, they won. And they've won big. Multiple Super Bowls. They've won a Super Bowl. They basically make the playoffs every year. They become a powerhouse.

And when you become a powerhouse and you have an unreal venue, you'll win in the West, you'll succeed in the West Coast. And they have immediately. So I gotta take the else. The Vegas thing has gone really well. If they get a new owner in there,

that thing would be a rocket ship. And L.A. couldn't have gotten any smoother. Now we can argue over the Chargers. I don't think, I think they should stay in San Diego, but Dean's too cheap, that's a whole other can of worms. Bottom line, the Rams have succeeded, and the Chargers succeeded enough.

So it's worked. So I don't claim to always be right. But ultimately it shows, like, most people, the average person that covers the NFL was like, this is stupid. Because at the time, it's like, why just leave them in St. Louis, leave them in San Diego, leave them in Oakland? But they made moves.

Because in business, you have to be progressive. You can't hold on to the things in the past. You have to think about the future. Ask Blockbuster. They weren't forward thinking when next, Netflix asks if they could merge, they got wiped the, you know what, out. But they're not alone. That happens to a lot of companies.

The brick and mortar is anything more in, have a bigger threat over the next 20 years than brick and mortar businesses? We do all of our business on the internet. It's why even as these internet stocks crumble, the biggest difference in 2022 than when the big internet crash happened in 2020, the internet had never really existed to the common civilian. In 2022, our life revolves around. the internet. So even as quote unquote things crash, it's never going to go away. And it's when it does, the economy does come storm back, it's only going to come back stronger. All of our business is going to be based on the internet. That's where we, that's where our commerce goes and we'll

only go more moving forward. I tell people all the time, like my generation, I'm 37 and people younger than me, we're going to buy all of our cars on the internet, we're going to buy all of our homes on the internet. All the purchases that my parents would never in a million years have made on the internet, we're all, we're going to do them all on the internet. That's not an opinion either. I think that's a borderline fact. It's inevitable. And I think change in sports, because so much money is on the line is also inevitable. Now, that doesn't mean we can't go, this sucks. Because I think it does suck, but I think once you take a step back, once you take a deep breath, like Colin says, take the emotion out of it, you go, I get it. Because ultimately USC, and it's been talked about now,

which ironically is sucked for a decade. But now, but now, they got Lincoln Riley, they're going to be good. And when they're good, they're a power. And they carry the conference. Like Utah is an unreal story. Kyle Whittingham is a badass. Their program produces people to the NFL. They just don't matter that much.

Oregon, which is basically Oklahoma State, but even better because they have, like, they're in the middle of nowhere, but they have this guy named Phil Knight who has unlimited money because he runs, I guess he quote unquote doesn't anymore, but obviously has funded that program and taken them

them to high highs. Their value on the open market isn't that great. Again, that's not an opinion. We just saw the Big Ten. They valued UCLA more than Oregon, where you'd go, look at Oregon's football program just the last two decades. It's not even comparable to UCLA. But having UCLA around, another basketball program is good. And in theory, if they were to get rid of Chip, who has no chance, Chip Kelly has zero chance to survive, excel, or win in the Big Ten. To me, the only move, and listen, they thought about firing him last year, but he won eight games in a shitty conference. Chip Kelly will not be the head coach when they go into the Big Ten.

That is my prediction right now, July 6, 2022. Zero chance. He does not match up well against physical defenses. It makes no sense. Lincoln Riley, completely higher level, much more. I mean, he's just been winning more lately. Chip hasn't won really. the 2010s, until last year when the conference is really down.

Now, here was a main problem with the PAC 12. This guy, I was listening to his interview, this guy named Chris Godderup. He is a star golfer at Oklahoma, who just turned pro. And he actually started at Rutgers, he's from New Jersey, went to Oklahoma for a year, won basically the equivalent of the Heisman Trophy for golfers. It's like the Haskins Award, the Nicholas Award. He won all the awards. he would be the equivalent of like the number one overall pick.

He's award winner, star player, you know, like Scotty Sheffler, Jordan Speath, like that level guy going right to the pros. And I heard him on this interview talk about at Oklahoma when they flew to, you know, tournaments, most of their tournaments were in like the South and the Southwest. He said, we would take the private jet, as in the private jet that Lincoln Riley, Bob Stoops, and now Brent Venables takes for the football team. And they ask him, is that normal? And he said, well, from what I've been told is most of the SEC golf teams do the same.

They fly on private jets to their tournaments. And Pac-12 always hung their hat on like, we are more into the entire athletic program. We're more into as much as football as the Olympic sports. Well, that was Larry Scott's big deal. Larry Scott was an Ivy League elite from Harvard who played tennis. Love the Olympic sports. and a lot of the presidents in the PAC 12 idolized that too because they're into academia.

They love a good whiteboard, a good supply, demand, this is how it works in a textbook. Well, it's not exactly how it works in reality. Because in reality, all the Olympic sports lose money. Not one of them make a penny. The football programs pay for everything. And the SEC put all their chips into the middle of the table on football.

And they have dominated. Now, obviously, Nick Saban has led it, but SEC programs, the last how many years beside Alabama, Georgia national champion, LSU national champion. Other programs are winning national championships. And because of that, the conference has financially gone

to a completely different level. And now the basketball programs in the SEC are equivalent to the Big Ten and the Pac-12 because they have the money to pay for top coaches. Well, also, the Olympic sports, did you see the baseball, the college world series? Who was there?

A bunch of SEC programs. The SEC is going to dominate at all the Olympic sports. Why? They're going to have the most money to pay for the top coaches. They're going to have the most money to pay for the NIL guys. To get the best water pole player, to get the best golfer, to get the best baseball player. That is just a reality.

And the PAC 12 was upset. with putting volleyball games and softball games and soccer games on their network. When the SEC was obsessed with winning national championships in football, because when they did that, everyone else benefited under the umbrella, because without football, Title IX just celebrated their 50th anniversary in America. Do you know the first thing Title IX should have done is send a thank you letter to every football program in America? because without the football programs, no one could finance any of this stuff.

And I'm pro, Title IX. Hell, I probably have three girls when I have kids. And they, hell, might not even be athletes, but if they were, they would benefit if they play college sports from Title IX. But none of those sports, none of them, could financially exist without football. And the Pac-12 has never got that.

Their presidents are consumed with academia. You can tell me, well, the Big Ten loves academia too. They clearly care a shitload more about sports. Because at Ohio State, at Michigan, at Michigan State, at Wisconsin, and Iowa, they would never operate like Cal. And I've lived in Northern California a large percentage of my life. My grandpa taught at Cal.

I see the way Stanford operates. Stanford was a top five program, like basically the last year of Harbaugh in the first three or four years of David Shaw, top five in the country in football, and they couldn't get 10,000 people to show up. Last year, in 2021, Cal played a game against Arizona, who was a winless football program,

and they couldn't travel half their team because of COVID policies, not by the university, but because of the city of Berkeley. And they lost the game. It was Arizona's only win of the season. That is what this conference is dealing with. And obviously, it's not all the commissioner's fault that some of the programs have slipped, but a reality is this conference who I love, I grew up loving, and I used to be nostalgic about,

Now I ultimately don't care. Because if you tell me U.S.C. is playing in Wisconsin, I'm there. I end up watching more of the SEC than I do the Pact 12. It's better football. And ultimately, I watch what the consumer watches. And I see the television ratings. People are not watching the Pact 12. So I have to care what you have to care about.

And ultimately, the thing you have to learn in life is that the only person truly who cares about you professionally is you. And you should keep a very, very small circle. My circle in life is like my mom My grandparents are all passed away My dad's passed away So it's basically my mom My brother and his family

A small percentage of friends I mean if they needed Hey John I'm Something happened You got I need $20,000 There'd be a handful of people I would D I would vet I guess you can't bend mother

Max is 499 For you know 5 Gs But however I would get them the cash And then there are two or three people That I'm in business with Actually just basically two Colin Coward Guy Haberman

other than that, I'd be loyal to zero people. Absolutely zero if something I determine my future and my financial success. So I don't blame USC and UCLA for not giving a shit about Oregon, for not thinking twice about Arizona, for not worrying about Stanford, because you've got to worry about yourself because they have been attached to those programs

and they've been sinking them. Now, you could argue that UCLA's football program is underachief for two decades. USC just had the worst tenure stretch in the program history. That's true. But your value is based on in your lowest moment,

what are you still worth? And their lowest moment, now you could argue it's not quite their lowest moment because UCLA hit a home run hiring Mick Cronin, even though I read this article in the LA Times,

that the UCLA Athletic Program $100 million in debt. They're running budget, red figures, $100 million over the last three years. Think about that. I can't even imagine what Cal looks like. And USC, as a big-time disaster, they've been getting sued,

but they got Mick Cronin and Lincoln Riley. And once UCLA gets the Big Ten money, they can hire a real big-time football coach. Chip Kelly used to be that. He no longer is. Was that in 2009 and 2010? It's 2022. Times have changed.

It's Lincoln Riley now. It's, hell, Ryan Day. You know, it's Sabin, Kirby, Jimbo. like it's living in real times. So I think that ultimately the PAC 12, they're two biggest brands, and they are the two biggest brands. You would say Stanford is close,

but when I think of Stanford, and I would put Cal under this umbrella to, they are elite universities. You think about them like you would Harvard, Penn, or Princeton. The first thing, when I say Stanford, you don't think John Elway. You think academics. It's an incredible school.

All these schools that I'm talking about all denied me. I would have no chance to get into any of them. None of them. And that was 20 years ago, let alone now. They'd rip up my application. Because they rip up most people's application. Cal is the hardest public university to get into in the world. When I think of the top academic universities, again, I'm biased.

I'm a West Coast guy. I would choose Stanford. I wouldn't even hesitate over all the Ivy League schools. But we're talking athletics here. And USC takes football very seriously. UCLA takes basketball very seriously. Those programs just don't. Ultimately, Oregon, they really care about sports.

But the Big Ten doesn't value their national reach for whatever reason. To me, Washington, I see it thrown in a lot in just this conversation. Yeah, I think they're a little overvalued. This isn't 1994. I actually do think Washington, for the most part, their football program had a stretch of like four years with Chris Peterson who they lucked into. Other than that, they have been a joke. An absolute clown show.

I mean, the highlight was like Sark going 7 and 5 with some big recruits. In the 2000s, they were terrible. Washington State and Oregon State, listen, I enjoy both those two campuses, but ultimately they're irrelevant. And I just don't know if the Pact 12 really cares that much. I heard a rumor last night that Stanford would be cool with just going Olympic sports only, maybe doing some deal with the Ivy League

and just kind of cutting football. Does Cal really like football that much? I don't know. Like I said, they didn't allow players to travel, not because they tested positive, but because they were in close contact. In the fall of 2021, the rest of the country was rocking and rolling,

pedal to the medal. So it's like, do they really care? I don't know. I would say they don't. And ultimately, it feels like we're headed toward this NFL model of like two conferences. And it pisses a lot of people off

because they're holding on to the past. Which, listen, when I was a kid, the Giants played the Atlanta Braves. They were in the same division. The 49ers were in the division of the Atlanta Falcons. This is when I was like a 10 years old in the mid-90s.

Think about saying that out loud. Things change. And you know eventually there is some sticker shock, the immediate change. And I'm not saying I love it because obviously rivalries had been broken. When I interned, I have a picture in my office right now of the game when Todd Reesing, who was the quarterback for the Kansas football team, when Mark Mangino was their quarterback, played Missouri, whose quarterback was Chase Daniel. At the time, college game day came, the game was at Arrowhead.

It was, I think, they were third, fourth in the nation. Kansas, Missouri was a huge rivalry. Well, Missouri went to the SEC, that rivalry ended. Texas, Texas A&M rivalry didn't mean that much to me, but obviously that rivalry ended. But ultimately, a lot of these rivalries aren't ending. USC, UCLA is going to keep playing. Texas, Oklahoma, going to keep playing. If people are like, what happens to the Apple Cup?

Washington State and Washington can keep playing. Did it mean that much last year? No. I mean, both Washington and Washington State fired their coaches in the middle of the season. What are we talking about? So when you value the wrong things and the PAC 12 did because they were obsessed with Olympic sports, when the worst thing you could ever do for the Olympic sports was, care too much about them.

Care more about football and they will benefit. When you have something in your business that makes a lot of money, double down, triple down, quadruple down. That's what the SEC did with football. And that's why they're running circles around everyone right now. The PAC 12 went the opposite because they hired an anti-football tennis player who thought he was a visionary because they could run the network on their own. Hey, Larry, you don't have the fan, this isn't Alabama floor.

Florida and Georgia. Stanford fans won't even show up when they're third in the country. You think they're going to go out of their way to buy the Pac-12 network? You're an idiot. And you want to act like you're the smartest guy in the room just because you went to Harvard? It turns out you were the dumbest guy in the room. And you got, you ruined the conference. Now, it's not totally his fault because ultimately you could say this was inevitable. And it might have been. It might ultimately have been inevitable. Because ultimately as things go on, I heard Coward say this the other day. We used to have 780, you know, major corporations in America.

Now we have, you know, 3,500. Things are consolidating. I say it all the time. I know people that run smaller businesses that are getting run by VC firms and then they all merge. Part of this money game that we're living in. Because as you get bigger, your expenses grow. So as your expenses grow, you have to make more money to afford to get bigger.

This is like, well, you can talk about, academia loves talking about the whiteboard and the theories and if this happens and this happens, then there's us. in the real world. Well, it's like, well, now this used to cost, my rent used to cost $10,000 a month. They just raised it to $17,000 a month. My payroll used to be $300,000. It's now $475,000. And this is, regardless, money's all relative, whatever your business is. And as things go up, you have to pivot, you have to figure out ways to pay for things. And as the UCLA Athletic Director said, if we didn't do this deal, which they just piggyback USC to go, we would have had to start cutting sports. We don't have the money. And I love, what about the endowments? Yeah, the endowments weren't set to play for the

sports. It's not the way the business is set up for the colleges. But that's a fun thing that gets said on Twitter, which a bunch of people that have no clue what they're fucking talking about. So ultimately, money rules the day. It always has. And the biggest, bigger business you're in, it's only going to dictate. So does it piss me off? That's probably the wrong word. Does it hurt my heart a little bit that the Pac-12 died the moment. these two teams left because that's what happened. Yes. But ultimately in three or four years, will it matter that much? I doubt it. Because I thought the Raiders going to Vegas.

I thought the Rams coming to L.A. I thought TechS. A&M going to the SEC. I thought all this stuff was going to ruin. None of it has. We just keep rocking and rolling. The games are on. They're fun. These programs have more money. Now, it's going to have ripple effects. Could Oregon State essentially become D1A? You know, yeah.

Could Stanford ultimately cut football in the next 10 years? For sure. Like all these things are on the table. But that's kind of the reality of life. Things the bigger businesses get, you turn into the halves and the haves-nots. That's why the cream rises to the top. And USC's brand at football is dramatically bigger than everyone out west. And that includes Oregon, who's had an incredible 20-year run.

But their value on the open market clearly wasn't the same. And you can say UCLA benefits geographically. Well, yeah, they're in L.S. So sure they do. You know? I mean, sometimes you just benefit from being in a certain market. Now, I would argue that UCLA's brand is still pretty massive. It's still pretty big.

And to me, they are underachieving at football. Now, are they willing to spend $8, $9 million on a football coach? Time will tell. Because to me, their only chance to maintain, because Lincoln's going to go into that conference and he's going to win. I don't know if he's going to win at all, but he's going to compete immediately. Because besides Ohio State,

he can coach any of these guys. And he's going to be getting the talent. So the only people that are going to be able to recruit at his level there are Ohio State. So I, listen, it's crazy. But this is only the beginning. I don't think it's going to stop. And where we are headed inevitably for basically NFC versus the AFC, Big Ten versus the SEC.

The SEC will add Miami, Florida State, Clemson, North Carolina. The Big Ten will add Notre Dame. Who knows? Do they add Oregon, Washington? It doesn't seem like they're in any rush to now. But in this day and age, you can never say never. So, you know, here's the other thing that kind of pisses me off, too. It's like, Fox, ESPN, they're just doing the deals.

You can't say that when you're also on the team side and being like, well, it's going to cost a lot of money to get our rights. Well, yeah, so if I'm Fox or I'm ESPN and I'm paying a shitload for the SEC, or I'm Fox paying a ton for the Big Ten, I go, listen, I have no problem giving you $800 million a year, $3 billion over however, you know, five years, whatever the terms of the deal are. But I'm going to need something on my end. I never understood when I worked in radio. We paid a premium for the rights for like the NFL team.

And it's like, what are they even given us? They don't give us the star quarterback. They don't give us the players when we want it. I see it in my own backyard with the radio station that owns the Golden State Warriors. They pay a ton for the rights to broadcast. the Warriors. And they get nothing back in return. They don't get any players. They occasionally get the coach. And the ratings aren't that great because we don't consume basketball on the radio. We watch it. It's actually, it doesn't pencil. So if I'm going to give you a ton of money,

how about, I'll give you some ideas. Add USC and UCLA. And I'll give you even more. Or if I'm ESPN and I go to the Greg Sankey, I go, listen, we'll give you way more than CBS. And we'll even throw more on top of it if you get Texas and Oklahoma. Like, it's a win-win for everybody. I think Scott Van Pelt tweeted it recently like, you guys are just, you guys are doing all this. And he's like, no, this is an orgy. We're all in this together. Because if we benefit, they benefit, everyone benefits. So yeah, did Fox want USC and UCLA there? Of course. Does Ohio State and Michigan want them there? Once they realize they're going to get more money, of course they do. So does everyone benefit that's involved in this transaction? Yes. Who doesn't benefit? The other teams

in the pack 12. What's the reality? People don't want them. So you just, you're only as valuable as the people that want you. And clearly USC and UCLA and USC had people banging down the doors. Crazy story. Feels like it's only the beginning, but we'll have to see how this all plays out. Hopefully everyone has a good week. We'll have a mailbag over the weekend. Adios. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite, unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier.

This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Look Back at a Podcast. For 1979, that was a big moment for me. big to me. I'm Sam Jay and I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down,

and try to make sense of how we survived it with our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. Before it was a wild year.

It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok. Podcast Network on TikTok. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.