The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 3 and Out - Ben Johnson staying in Detroit, Arthur Smith to Pittsburgh, Mailbag

Episode Date: January 31, 2024

John dives into the news that Ben Johnson is going to stay in Detroit, why would he forego head coaching opportunities two years in a row, will his stock ever be higher, what's expected from the Lions now their coaches are coming back. Also, Pittsburgh makes a huge splash by bringing in Arthur Smith to bolster their offense. Later, John answers your questions for this episode's mailbag segment.  5:38 - Ben Johnson is staying in Detroit 18:54 - Arthur Smith is so important 34:55 - Mailbag 35:17 - Why do the 49ers struggle against the run 37:38 - Why would Ben Johnson turn down HC jobs 40:51 - What will the Commanders do 46:34 - Adam Silver gets extended 47:49 - NFL in Mexico is growing 50:30 - What does the Seahawks offseason look like Follow John on Twitter, Instagram and YouTube for the latest. Check out Gametime - the fastest growing ticketing app in the US, and the official ticketing app of 3 & Out and GoLow -  for tickets to all of your favorite NFL, NBA, NHL, NCAA teams. Concert and comedy show tickets, too. Go to Gametime now to create an account, download the app and use code JOHN for $20 off your first purchase. #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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How are we doing, my people? Here's the game plan. Ben Johnson returning to the Lions, not going to be a head coach. We'll talk about that. Maybe working for Dan Campbell is pretty fun. Sure seems like it if you're Ben Johnson. Arthur Smith,

going to the Pittsburgh Steelers as their offensive coordinator, so Tomlin gets a guy that hopefully can save his offense. nice hire by Tomah. We'll dive into that. And then just some other stuff around the NFL. Brandon Staley. Work for Sean McVeigh, but he's interviewing again. So we'll dive into that.

And we also have mailbag. So at John Middlecoff is the Instagram. At John Middlecoff is the Instagram. Fire in those DMs. I'll do like 15, 20 minutes a day, and then we'll probably do a big one on Friday. So at John Middlecoff, fire in those DMs. Get your question answered on the show.

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returns to the Detroit Lions. I had heard last year that Ben Johnson when he had interviewed with the Carolina Panthers and ultimately turned down David Tepper, it wasn't as much what many on the outside thought of, David Tepper's

a madman, he didn't want to work for them. One thing I was told by someone in the NFL was that Ben Johnson wasn't quite sure of himself as a head coach, almost like he didn't feel ready. This is not a 50-year-old guy at the time he was 36 years old and felt like he needed a little more seasoning. Remember, not everyone in their mid to late 30s is Kyle Shanahan who'd been trained to be a head coach for 15 years and been an offensive coordinator for 10. Or Mike Tomlin who has bravado and cockiness and balls. just the size of watermelons. Some guys aren't as sure of themselves at certain ages.

And I don't think it's that crazy for, just on the surface, for a guy 36, 37, to go, you know, I don't feel that quite ready. And the news of Ben Johnson returning, and Adam Schaefter put out that one thing that intimidated owners, that I wouldn't even say turn them off, but was a point of contention for dealing with Ben Johnson. was the price that he wanted in reports from like a month ago that ultimately his agent pushback on which is the same guy that represents Mike McDaniel LaFleurre Kyle McVeigh that the report was he

wanted $15 million a year well think about it this way if you're 36 37 years old and you know you got a bright future ahead and you love working somewhere you love it and money's not an issue Ben Johnson is making two and a half three four million dollars so he's He is rich. Now, not head coach rich, but he's rich. He doesn't have to worry about buying homes, buying cars, you know, going on vacation. He has enough disposable income that he is easily in the top 1% of the top, you know, he's probably in the top 5, 10% of the top 1%.

Like, he makes a lot of money, especially for W2 employees. Right, there ain't many W2 employees making seven figures. He's one of them. And you get to the spot where you go, wait, I really really. like what I'm doing. I feel very comfortable of the future in what I'm doing. And I'm not quite confident enough in myself to do what these people want me to do. So you throw out a number of like, well, ultimately I would do it if you paid me five years, $75 million, because there comes a point for all of us that it doesn't make sense not to do it. If you love your job, let's put it in

normal people numbers, right? Obviously, the average American salary is like 60 grand. Let's say you're doing pretty well right now. You're 38 years old and you're making $200,000. You love where you work. You respect who you work for. You think there's upside with the company to make more money. Maybe your bonus structure. You're going to do pretty well financially.

But this other company is sniffing around you. And they want to promote you and give you a bigger position. Well, it gets very difficult if they offered you $3 million. You would owe it to your family. You would owe it to everyone. They named you the CEO of their company. But if they're offering you $700,000 and you have belief in yourself

that money's not going to be an issue moving forward, not necessarily the salary you make, but just your ability to make more money. This money is not going to change the course of your life, right? Because you're already doing pretty well, and your wife has a good job. It's easy to say no. And you can throw out a number that, hey,

listen, you're offering me $700,000, I make $250 right now, $3 million I'm taking the job. But for $750 grand, I ain't doing it. You know, I think it's actually very relatable, right? Now, obviously he could make $10 million as a head coach is a lot more than $3 million, but he knows he's going to be able to be a head coach next year. That's part of it. Think how many players in free agency that are part of good teams, 49ers, the chiefs, the rents,

Ravens, like part of really good teams, good organizations, who become a free agent, don't want to leave. They would love to stay. But in football, unlike coaching or unlike podcasting or unlike car salesman or insurance salesman, you're not able to do it in your 50s, in your 60s. Like, it's kind of finite. For most guys, it ends in their early 30s. So if I'm making $3 million for the Eagles or the Ravens,

and the Carolina Panthers offer me $8 million or $7 million. I have no choice. I have to take it. Even though I love blame for the Eagles, I know we're going to be good. I got to go to the Carolina Panthers. I have absolutely no choice. Mike McGlinchy last year with the San Francisco of 49ers.

Would have loved to stay with the San Francisco of 49ers. He did not want to leave. 49ers were never going to pay him. And then all of a sudden Denver goes, here's $50 million. He has no choice. He has to take the money. So with coaching, your career,

Ben Johnson is 37 years old. Belichick and Sabin were coaching into their early 70s. So it's like, hypothetically, he could have 35 years left of coaching. And let's face it, people now in their late 30s, I fall under that category,

we're way more healthy and approached life a lot different than the older generation. So Ben Johnson, which I think it is clear to say, because in the history of the league, most guys, it's a very ambitious industry, players and coaches that jump at opportunities.

And it's not always simply because of money in 2024. All these guys are rich. Ben Johnson is a multi-millionaire at this point. But maybe deep down he goes, I don't feel quite ready. I can keep sharpening my sword. And I view it as a very calculated risk because nothing's guaranteed. But I think it's safe to say, worst case for the Lions next year, like their floor feels like nine wins. It would be stunning, given their roster, given their youth,

it would take some crazy injuries for them not to be a double-digit win team. So Ben goes, I can keep working on the things that I need to work on, keep honing my craft, and ultimately get to a position when I do accept the job. I think a lot of people go,

God, this is it starting to get weird? Is it really getting that weird? I mean, like four years ago, the guy was a quality control coach, a tight-end coach. His stardom has been like a rocket ship. He has gone within a three-year, spanned someone no one talked about in his early 30s to being like the number one head coaching

candidate and rightfully so because it's an offensive play caller it's not debatable he's the best offensive coordinator who is not a head coach right Andy McVeigh Kyle LaFlor those guys are head coaches and play callers go around the league to non-head coaches I don't even think they're I don't even know who's number two there's a wide gap he would be the number one guy every team would higher if they had a head coach who was a defensive head coach or a CEO head coach to be their offensive coordinator. It'd be Ben Johnson. Because watching him against the 49ers, watching them all playoffs, watching them all season, watching the last two years, he's a fucking badass play caller. He's everything you want in that position. But clearly for him as a guy, which I commend this,

is kind of knowing when you're not ready. Think how many young coaches, college and pro, jump at opportunities and get washed out and never get that opportunity again. who truly aren't ready, but their ambition, you know, maybe clouds their judgment, clouds their understanding of going, yeah, I could use a little more time.

I could use, ask the guy I'm working for to give me a little more on my plate. Now, I also understand a lot of people, specifically men, because that's what there are in this industry, take these jobs as much for money.

It's obviously a lot, but they want to be the boss. They don't want to make suggestions anymore. They want to make decisions. there's a long rectangular table in all these meeting rooms all around the league and all over college football they're long they fit i don't even know how many people let's say 25 30 people you sit at the front and everyone looks at you even when you're these highly paid offensive and defensive coordinators you sit on the sides so there is something to being a decision maker a guy that knows how to

the trigger. But when you look at Jim Harbaugh, who just accepted the head coach of the Chargers, do you know where he learned to hone his skill? At the University of San Diego, which I don't even know how many scholarships they have, but it's not 85. And then he went to Stanford. It was a running joke. So he got to sharpen his sword before he even got to the 49ers with about eight years of experience at levels, especially the first four or five, no one was even paying attention to. and I'm a huge believer in this. There is nothing like experience. You can't overcome that.

And in football, now with the money on the line, if you are not ready, and just because you're a good play caller, once you become the head coach, when your starting linebacker gets a DUI, when your defensive coordinator's wife gets sick and he has to go on a leave of absence, when your general manager is in a bad mood and you're fighting with him,

when your owner is all over your ass about some highly paid guy, who's not playing well, you have to deal with that. When you're the offensive coordinator, you do not. Those phone calls don't come to you. They go to the head guys, the GM and the head coach. The offensive coordinator, if you can get to a spot like Ben Johnson or some of these great defensive coordinators, they pay you $3, $4 million.

And your only responsibility, literally, is to coach football, professionally. It's the only thing you have to worry about on a daily basis. your family and football. As the head coach, you are dealing with so much administrative stuff that is not football. Even Ron Rivera

said it like the last five weeks when he became the defensive coordinator, even though it was pretty ugly. It was kind of refreshing to just get back to ball. And that's what you get to do nonstop when you're a coordinator. When you're the head coach,

you deal with everything. Scouts, GM, ticket people, owner, coordinators, players, players issues, players families, trainers, equipment people. You know, it's all on your plate. And I don't know Ben Johnson never met the guy. But I think it's pretty clear he believes he's not ready and most guys do not have the balls to turn these jobs down.

They jump at them. And then they're right back sitting in that seat three years later. And I do wonder if one of the reasons he feels very comfortable there was, I watched some of Dan Campbell's press conference, we talked about this yesterday, but there was part of it that I didn't hear. It was at the end. He's not wrong when he talked about

when he's kicking field goals. That's what we do. That's very authentic. That is true. That's what they do. I disagree with it, but he's been doing it all season, so they continue to do it now.

Time and the place, we can argue till we're blowing the face, but I understand why he does that because that's what he does. But he said something toward the end of the game when they had to call the time out when they were down 10 points and they're trying to score really fast

to either kick an onside kick or kick it deep and they have three timeouts, which as a CEO head coach, your job is to manage the game. So having three timeouts under two minutes is a good thing. Hell, I watched Sean McVeigh like three or four times this year get to the end of the game.

He's got one timeout. Dan Campbell has all his timeouts. And Dan said that I said over the headset, I told Ben Johnson. He didn't say it exactly like this, but he said I said run the ball. And because I thought that we would walk right in the end zone.

And essentially, I gambled and I failed. And I thought to myself, how many coaches in the NFL would admit that to the media, which is to us the public? Listen, I think Kyle Shanahan is a big-time head coach. Not in a million years would Kyle Shanahan have said, I gambled and I lost.

I screwed up. He never says that. He refused to ever say that he regretted or it was a mistake to make the play call that cost Purdy his right elbow, which was, if you would obviously say, I wish I could have called another play in hindsight, but he's not going to say that. It's just not the way he's wired, Belichick.

These guys aren't wired to do that. There is an authenticity to Dan Campbell that really resonates with me. I said yesterday, and I've been saying for my entire career of talking for a living, I just have nothing in common with, like, people that are very political. And I don't mean in politics. I just mean that's the kind of the way, like, always networking, always doing that. There's a fraudulent aspect for me, and maybe that's something I struggle with. I could be a better, a quote-unquote network or whatever.

But I just think there are so many phonies and fakes out there. And even in football, it's not always the head coach assistants to. There are just so many frauds. And I do think that Dan Campbell is a very authentic person. And clearly he's good to work for. Because Ben Johnson now has had multiple opportunities to leave and go somewhere, strike worthy iron's hot and he stayed loyal to this guy. So for as shitty as that was the other night and listen, if you're a Detroit Lions fan, it was bad.

That's a rough loss. It just, I don't know, cost you a Super Bowl appearance. Today was a pretty good day to get to retain Ben Johnson. And, you know, I would say, you know, I think it's fair to say the 49ers are going to be, you know, the favorite to win the NFC again next year. You could put the Detroit Lions at number two. You really could. And I think if they're not number two, that's pretty good value because they got a young ascending squad with a really, really good coaching staff. When you're a defensive head coach or a CEO head coach that's not an offensive guy, your offensive coordinator is so vital to you.

Because like think about Mike Tomlin, right? Defensive guy, CEO head coach, great motivator. But like he's not coaching footwork with the quarterback. He's not coaching reeds with the quarterback. That's just not what he's going. Neither's John Harbott, neither are any of those type guys. Neither is Pete Carroll. They don't have the capability of doing that.

It's crazy that sounds. I know a lot of people like, what do you mean? They don't understand. They just don't. I don't know any other way to say it as like they're not coaching the quarterback. One, there is a small percentage of human beings that are good at coaching the quarterback, clearly.

And the defensive guys, they just fundamentally view football differently than those guys. So whoever your offensive coordinator is, you are very very very. very dependent on that guy. And I think most offensive coordinators in Division I football in the NFL could all just talk about football, right, on a very similar level,

what to do against this coverage, what to do against that coverage, what routes they like with certain quarterbacks, what concepts they like in their offense. Like, I think the difference between Matt Canada and Kyle Shanahan, if you were just talking football at a desk with both, I don't know if you'd notice that big of a difference,

I could be wrong. But there is an instinct of putting together a game plan and then calling plays on game day. And clearly some guys have it and some guys do not. No different than a player. Like there are a lot of players with physical attributes. They're like, why isn't this guy better? Because he's just not an instinctive quarterback

or an instinctive wide receiver or an instinctive linebacker. Like you either can play or you can't. It sometimes just boils down to the simple, of that. You either can call plays or you can't. Just because you know offense or defense doesn't mean you're going to be good at play calling. And Matt Canada is a good example. He just did not have a good rhythm as a play caller. He was mostly god-awful. And Arthur Smith, when he was an OC, was really, really good, especially with a good running game and a physical team and a defensive head coach. So he knew how to fit into a culture with a head coach. He knew how to fit into a

culture with a head coach that's going to want to lean playing physical ball and running it, and he thrived. And the Titans had their best two years with him as their offensive coordinator. And the best part about hiring Arthur Smith, if you're Mike Tomlin and the Pittsburgh Steelers, let's say this year your offense is top five, and you're awesome. I don't know who your quarterback would be, but let's just say you have an awesome offense this year. No one's hiring him to be your head coach next year.

Nobody. Arthur Smith is unhirable at minimum for two years. I think you'd have to win the Super Bowl and then you'd have to have the best offense in the league the following year. Anytime I can get a coach that I don't have to worry about becoming a head coach, that is a huge, huge benefit to me as an organization. When I hire Vic Fangio, I know no one's going to hire that guy to be their head coach anymore.

I said this about Spax. You could argue when you factor in how good his defense is, he's the most valuable defensive coordinator elite because no one's ever going to lose them. That's the thing with Ben Johnson and Mike McDonald and all these hot coordinators, everyone's always going to want to hire them as their head coach. Why Arthur Smith once upon a time got hired to be the Atlanta Falcons head coach? Well, now he saw him be a head coach.

He was terrible, awful. It was really ugly. And his play calling was no longer as good. Because some guys are meant to be number twos. Nothing wrong with that in the NFL. It's Wall Street on grass, millions of dollars. So to me, Arthur Smith makes a ton of sense with the Pittsburgh Steelers. Now, to me, the biggest question mark moving forward is what the hell they're going to do with a quarterback.

You cannot just run it back with Kenny Pickett. I'm sorry, you cannot. I'm not saying you get rid of them, but do you trade for Justin Fields? Do you do something? Because I can't just go into next season with Kenny Pickett as my quarterback.

And they've even admitted as such. And I know Kenny Pickett was all up in arms about them not going back to him at the end of the season when he was healthy. I'm sorry, Kenny. We're riding the hot hand. You're not exactly Ben Rothersberger here. We're just because you're health.

again, you go back in the game when we're winning games. Not how it works. You haven't earned it. That's not the way football works. No one cares that you were the 20th pick. So if I was a betting man right now, one, I would say Kenny Pickett's job is in major jeopardy and two, like, I think they were going to bring in competition and a guy to compete with them in training camp. Ryan Tannenhill would be a guy to keep an eye on, trading for Justin Fields. But there will be another quote unquote bigger name quarterback on the Pittsburgh Steelers. And listen, Mike Tomlin's going to stay, and he's going to continue to be the head coach in Pittsburgh. He had to get a good offensive coordinator. And based on what we saw in Tennessee with Arthur Smith, this is a home run hire. I'm sorry. But if I've had you as my defensive coordinator, like let's say next year, Robert Sala gets fired from the Jets, and Steve Wilkes either gets fired or gets a head coaching job, and the 49ers need a defensive coordinator. Kyle Shanahan would not have to interview Robert Sala.

He would just rehire Robert Salah. Right? Like when Josh McDaniels came back to the Patriots after Denver and St. Louis, Belichick didn't re-interview him. He just hired him. Right? So when I saw that Brandon Staley is interviewing with the Rams,

that's fucking weird. I'm sorry. Now, if it was a call like, hey, man, how you doing? We're interested in having you. Would you be interested in coming back? Like, you know, just talk about, like, what happened with the charges, all that stuff, totally understand if you want to consider that an interview.

But if we're sitting down and re-talking defense, that's a pretty big red flag on brand of state. They literally work together. They coached together for a year. Now, I understand it was 2020 in Crazy California, so they probably weren't together in person as much as, obviously as much as normal. But still, I'm sorry. If you need to re-interview a guy for a position who'd already held that position for you and had success, I probably don't want to. that individual back on the staff. And this is not trying to kick Brandon Staley when he was down.

I really don't care. I told you Packer fans. Like, keep an eye on him for your job. But I understand LaFleur interviewing Brandon Saley. He's never worked for Matt LaFleur. He worked for Sean McVeigh. Like, if D'Amico or Sala were available, you don't need to interview him.

Like, I'm sorry. I would have mad. Did Andy Reed interview Steve Spagnola? If anything, it was like, hey, Steve, how are you doing? would you want this job? We want you to coach here. Shouldn't you know the guy? Very bizarre.

What else is going on? I saw Albert Breer tell Rich Eisen that one big reason that Vrable and Belichick, now Belichick, because he wants to be the GM and the head coach that Atlanta pulled back, like they would have loved to just have him as the head coach, but it's hard to just have Belichick as a head coach because he also wants a huge role in picking the players.

But one thing with both those guys is everyone's on eggshells in the building. And Albert was kind of laughing. He was like, one thing that these owners really just want is for everyone to kind of get along and everyone to be friendly. And I thought, like, that's insane. Like, this is football.

Ideally, if you're a head coach, I would expect you to be cordial to an owner. But if I owned a team and my gentleman or my head coach was good and he was winning, I don't really think I'd care that much how big of an asshole he was. I understand that this is not

high school sports here. A lot of money's on the line. The more we win, the more I financially benefit. And I think anyone hiring people because they look at them like friendly or it's going to be easy to work with is taking the wrong tactic in the sport of football. It should be an uncomfortable environment.

people should be on their toes. I'm sorry, not everyone needs to be miserable 24-7, but I think you better be very careful about worrying about that because I think Mike Vrable is a really good head coach, and I'm sorry he's not Mr. Happy Go Lucky, Smiley guy all the time. I just can't imagine owning a team and having that bother me that much. Now, maybe it's because I saw firsthand, Jim Harbaugh with the 49ers,

people uncomfortable. But all he was doing was winning. And then when they fired him, they wanted someone who was just positive and would listen. And that's a huge reason. The owner wants someone that's going to listen to them. And they hired Jim Tom Sula

and the building borderline burnt to the ground. So when you're so worried about everyone's feelings, you're usually consumed with the wrong thing in this profession. So I don't disagree with him because I think he's right. Because if Mike Vrable had a rep of like, oh, it gets along with everyone, everyone likes him,

he would have been hired immediately. I even, I mean, listen, he's not going to ask me, but I'd tell Adam Peters, you're crazy if you're not talking to Mike Frable. I think I would be all over. If I was John Snyder in Seattle, he'd be my hire. But maybe he just, they're scared if he won't listen to him, which is understandable.

But if I'm the owner, like, get me the best coach. and then figure it out from there. Other than that, there's a lot of random guys interviewing and taking offensive and defensive coordinator jobs. And it just got me thinking today, like I saw Jeff Idzik's kid is going to Panthers to be the offensive coordinator. A bunch of guys just bounce around.

In two years, half these guys are all going to get run out of town. Like, you really have two options the moment you become an offensive coordinator. You either are going to be a future head coaching candidate and people are going to be interviewing you to be a head coach in two or three years or you're getting run out of town and it's going to be ugly. There is no middle ground as an offensive coordinator. Defense coordinator guys can stay a little longer, right?

If they're a little older or not interviewing, whatever. But as an offensive coordinator, there's two options. Within 24 months, you either are going to have a lot of positive buzz about you or they're driving your ass to the airport. you are either doing Zoom initial interviews with owners and GMs or you are fired. And I remember an offensive coordinator told me this years ago. He said when you get the opportunity to be an OC as a position coach,

you are obligated to take the job. Because I remember asking him like, why would you want this job? Why wouldn't you just go be a quarterback coach somewhere? And he's like, because once you're in the cycle, you're just in it. And financially, you go from, you know, $5,600 grand to $2 million. And then you just viewed as an offensive coordinator at minimum for a couple jobs, even if you get run out of town after the first one.

So it changes the course of your career. You can get pigeonholed as a position coach and never get a shot. It's why once you become a defense for an offensive coordinator, even if it goes poorly, you typically get a second chance. And then if it goes well, you become a head coach. You are so close to just doing what a lot of these guys, dreams are, besides Ben Johnson, being head coach as quickly as possible. So it's just something to keep an eye on all the coaches flying around and interviewing and

higher left and right. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'll say it. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media.

Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes

of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next, we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be.

Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of tauntons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to stuff to blow your mind on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Okay, let's dive into a little thing we call the mailbag. The mailbag is simple. It's my name, at John Middlecough, 2Fs, and I have an Instagram. account. Fire in those DMs. I will attempt to find your DMs with a million other young males. And we will answer your question here on the show. Very easy. At John Middlecock, firing the DMs. Niners fan. I'm a new subscriber to your channel. I have a question. What is the reason for the 49ers struggling against the run in the postseason? I think this one's pretty easy. Is right now the 49ers have some defensive linemen who are not good against the run.

Chase Young is their starting defensive end. Not a very good player. Javon Hargrave is not a run stopper. Not really his deal. And even Eric Armstead is getting up there in age. He's been banged up throughout the year. I wouldn't exactly call him Gilbert Brown in his prime. So you have some defensive linemen who are constantly getting blocked.

that means if they're getting blocked, you can get offensive linemen up to the second level. While Fred and Drake Greenlaw are very good players, if you get a body on them, I wouldn't consider them Dick Butkus. They're not stack and shedding guys. They have to run by guys. And right now it feels like a lot of their guys are getting blocked.

A lot of their guys. And the other thing is on what Ben Johnson did an unreal job of, and he just kept going over and over. They're angles right now in pursuit. are fucking hideous. Defense of football in the open field at the NFL level and in college football, because of the athletes you're playing, is all about angles.

And the best players, the best defensive players, like Fred Warner in the open field is a great tackler because he takes great angles. Well, the nine are safeties right now, the angles they're taking, and maybe it's like, how do you prepare for playing Gibbs on the Lions?

It's hard. It's hard. Your scout team running back is not giving you the same look. But his speed was, on a different level. I think the one bright spot would be. Aaron Jones and Gibson Montgomery, that's beside Christian McCaffrey and like Alvin Camara

and a healthy Nick Chubb. I mean, you're talking about the best running games in the league. Isaiah Pacheco is a good player. I wouldn't put them on those guys' level. So hopefully if you're a Niner fan, their run game is just not as good as these other teams. It's not as explosive. But God, it's been ugly.

I hear you. Question I'd love for you to answer on the pod. Why would a guy like Ben Johnson turn down a head coaching gig? Loves the skill guys too much in Detroit? Well, we talked about it on the podcast earlier, on a different video, and if you're listening on the podcast earlier in the pod, I really think it's simple.

When you like where you work and money is good, you are more likely to say no. The best business advice I've ever gotten is the most powerful thing you could ever say to someone in business, a potential guy who's trying to hire you, a partner or whatever, contract negotiation, no. I'm not interested.

I'm good. Who do people usually want what they can't have? And I don't think he's doing it because he's like, you know, he's like a girl or a guy turning you down, try to get you to chase. I think it's simply he doesn't feel he's ready. He's 37 years old. He's making $3 or $4 million.

And he has a loaded roster. and he likes working for the head coach. I think too often in life we worry about, and listen, any ambitious person listening to this, it's a hard balance to have. But like sometimes when you got it good and you're young, you get a lot of life ahead. And looking at Ben Johnson, skinny guy, former quarterback,

the guy that's going to live until he's 85, 90 years old. Probably could be coach until his 70s. It's like if he doesn't like the opportunities, what if he doesn't like the quarterbacks in this draft? So he's like, I'm not that interested. Washington. You look at Seattle, you're like, well, who's going to play quarterback? Fellow Bald Brother, my guy Alex. With the Bill's aging roster and Josh Allen's massive contract, what are your thoughts on Buffalo trading away older players to retool? They obviously have

missed their window with the digs Josh combo. Potential trades could include the often injured Trey White and Milano tandem. Could we get some mid-round picks for Poirer and Hyde? I don't think so. I love those guys, but they are often injured and close to out the door anyway. I don't think we can get a ham sandwich for Vaughn Miller, but options there as well. Is Diggs still worth the first round pick? He's not. Not at this age. Now with the tread on his tires.

Here's the problem. If they're healthy, Milano and Trey Diggs are Trey White are really good players. Did White Terra's Achilles or Tera's ACL? One of them tore their Achilles right and one of them tore their ACL. So even if you are a really good player, when you have season-ending injury, your value on the open market is awful. If your value, let's just play one out of 100. If you're like an 85-90 player, like 90 out of 100, like you're a high-end pro-bowl type guy. If you tear your ACL, what's your value in March?

70? So you're selling these guys in a weird way. you're almost better on bringing them back, reworking their contract, pushing their money back, and hoping they can still be good. Because you get nothing for them. So you guys are in a tough spot.

You really are. With Ben Johnson returning to the Lions, I saw the Commander's head coaching vacancy is now between three defensive coordinators. I think it's the Lions. It's Aaron Glenn, Mike McDonald, I don't know who the third is.

I think the other guy you're talking about Weaver is the DB coach. With such a high pick in this draft and new quarterback likely at the helm, do you agree with their decision to stray away from an offensive-minded head coach that could be there developing a new quarterback? Who are their options, would be my question. Like if Ben Johnson's, if they wanted him and he won't take the job, what are they supposed to do? Like, if this was college football, you'd be like,

offer Sean McVeigh, $200 million. Right. Hey, Kyle, come back, we'll offer you $175 million. You would just, you would do something like that, but this isn't. You can't do that. So the best coaches available are the coordinators. I personally, what I would have done, I would have hired Mike Vrable and brought Arthur Smith and drafted the guy number two overall. That's what I would do. Mike McDonald, clearly is a really good coach. I'd be really interested, but I think I saw Benjamin Albright, who covers the Broncos and knows of the league. He ex-channeled this out, formerly known as the old tweet machine, that a big thing in these

interviews, if you're a defensive coach, is not asking you who do you want as your offensive coordinator? You have to have a contingent offensive coordinator for when that guy gets hired away. So if you say, if I'm Mike Vrable and I'm interviewing and I say, Arthur Smith is going to be my offensive coordinator. then I would ask, well, in two years, if we have a lot of success and he gets hired, who are you replacing him with? And if you don't have a good answer, it's like a demerit or a negative on your interview. It's like, that's a problem.

Honestly, I don't, I think that's smart. Like, you better have some options, which is such bullshit because so much can change in two years. Who the hell knows? But I do think that's a lot would be predicated on who's going to be the coordinator. And if the coordinator, if you draft Drake May and in two years, Drake May is like a pro bowler, that guy's going to become a head coach. Question from the pod, wife's account. As a frustrated Ravens fan, knowing the potential this team had this year,

is there any explanation for why the Ravens would abandon the run game? There were many points in the game up until the fourth quarter where the Ravens could have afforded to have a long drive and 8th the clock. You almost can't even say that running didn't work since they barely ran the ball. Do you think the Ravens coaching staff thought they needed Lamar to play like Mahomes to beat him? I think that. I think that. Especially last week, when Josh Allen, I forget the exact number, but he ran for over 70 yards. He had so many runs at 7 to 10 yards.

And to not run Lamar, who is faster than Josh, outside the tackles, I'd be lying if I wasn't bitter because I put a lot of money on Lamar Jackson over, like, 80 yards. I basically parlayed them winning in him over 80 yards. And early in the game, when they ran that fourth and one play, and he got like 18, 20 yards, I'm like, God, he's going to do this with ease. And then they just tried to throw him like he's John Elway or Dan Marino. Part of being a coach is doing whatever, especially in a playoff game. You know, it's one thing in the regular season that, hey, we might have to lose this game,

but the big picture will find out something about the guy. there's no evaluation going on. If you ran Lamar every single play, that's what you have to do to win the game, that's what you do. A playoff game is a kitchen sink game. For as bad as it was, like the Lamar situation,

even worse on Todd Munkin. It's one of those you can't, you can't shake. To not give your star quarterback who can run, who is one of the greatest runners, if not the greatest running quarterback of all time, the ball constantly?

I would have ran quarterback power like once a every three downs I mean we're running quarterback sweep slash power however you want to however you describe it I'm pulling guards and tackles leading the way lead blocker

what was he doing for the mailback do you think there are any relatively well-known NFL players that should could revive their career by playing in the UFO I think the most obvious example is Trey Lance well Trey Lance makes like

seven million playing in the NFL. So it'd be pretty big risk to leave the Cowboys, go play in the Rocks League for a couple hundred grand. If you suck, you're screwed. So I don't think he's a bad example. I think it has to be a guy like out of the league. You know, like a quarterback.

I'm trying to think, you know, my brain's not working. I was going to say Deshaun Kaiser, but even that's a bad example. You know, like a guy, like a fringe quarterback, like if Carson Wentz hadn't got the Rams job, Carson Wentz 100% should have gone to it. He's not working anyway. If you're on a team's roster, it doesn't make sense to go to the UFL or XFL or whatever the hell it's called.

Carson Wentz, he's going into his fourth year. He's drafted third overall. Like he's got a lot of money coming to him. And again, if he's not an accurate player, it just wouldn't go very well. although I probably already know the answer what are your thoughts on Adam Silver's extension

until 2030 as an NBA commissioner I got so many people asking me about this in the NBA NFL or Major League Baseball those leagues don't operate like a Fortune 500 company in the sense of they would hire someone outside the family because I guess in the realest way to say it there's a lot of shady shit going on

and these sports leagues the amount of money that's on the line, you can't afford to hire some dude like Jamie Diamond's number two and then bring him in and have it not work out and then him start spilling the beans. I'm not saying like illegal activity, but there is a reason that all these leagues,

Rob Manfred worked in the league, Roger Goodell worked in the league, Adam Silver was David Stern's number two. Like if Adam Silver left, they would just hire someone else from the NBA. So yeah, the NBA, I don't think, I don't think Adam Silver's any good, but I'm not surprised at all. They are keeping him around.

You don't have any other options. I think it's really that simple. And they're technically, I mean, they're still making money. It's not like the thing's going bankrupt. Hi, John. I'm Marco, and I'm in Monterey, Mexico. Big fan of your podcast and a diehard Niner fan. I was listening to you talk about how much the NFL is growing in popularity,

and I think you didn't consider the insane amount of fans. the NFL has in Mexico and other countries. A lot of people in the U.S. don't really understand, but the Niner Cowboy and Steeler fan bases down here is just so incredibly, it's so incredible, it's actually crazy. Niners are probably one of the most important things in my life, L.O.L. And I know just so many people that feel the way about their teams.

It's a good point. I did not think about that. I don't think when the TV ratings, when they factor in, you know, 57 million people, they don't factor in international. It's a big problem, like, with the ratings in, like when the Toronto Raptors were in the NBA finals. So, like, that rating, part of the popularity, I hear what you're saying, and I'm not disagreeing,

but, like, if a lot of people are watching the Super Bowl in Germany or Mexico or wherever, it doesn't, I mean, factor in to at least the number I was talking about yesterday. But I hear you. And that's why I think they keep going these international games. Niners have played in Mexico Chiefs played in Mexico

Steelers I don't think they played in Mexico but they play in Europe I'm a religious listener how I start every morning Thank you I see that Ben is staying in Detroit Do you think Brad Holmes

will decide next year To make him the head coach If Dan doesn't take the next step I don't know man I think Dan Campbell's doing a pretty good job I think when you watch Dan Campbell press conferences And I've said this all along

He gets this You know I would say He gets pigeonholed as this tough guy meathead. When you watch him talkies, he's a pretty smooth cat. I think Dan Campbell's pretty smart. I think the perception of Dan from the casual fan kind of meat-headed is a little different than the actual guy.

I think he has meathead qualities. I mean, 6-4, 250, you know, listen to Metallica, slams, double ventes. Again, I'm not acting like he's not a football guy. But I think he's a little more, I think it's intellectual. dishonest the way the media kind of portrays him. But, I would say there's some pressure on him, for sure.

I don't think they would necessarily do that. I mean, he just was the head coach of a team, but we've seen enough teams. Do you think the Eagles regret not firing Siriani last year and just making change Saigon the head coach? You can get crossed their mind? Like this year, should we have done that? How could it not?

I watch all different ties to football podcasts and shows, and yours is my favorite. Thank you, Liam. Quick question for the Seahawks. Got a weird off-season ahead. With salary cap, and my biggest question is with our roster and the amount of talent I do feel

we are just a piece or two away, what the hell do we do at quarterback? Well, the only way to truly upgrade a quarterback at this point in time, because you can't sign a free agent because Gino makes some money, but you're not going to sign Kirk Cousins is going to be trade up in the draft

and kind of hope you strike oil. And really, if you trade up in the draft, can you just get like, can you get your Kurt Cousins or Dak Prescott? or even your Brock Purdy in the third or fourth round, or maybe even in the first round, can you just get a guy who can immediately play? Because your offensive line is solid,

Kenneth Walker's a stud, and your wide receivers are good. Your defense needs them fix them, but we'll see who the next head coach is, which your search has been a little bizarre. I'm not going to lie. I feel like I have no clue. No clue what's happening.

Could they be hiring someone from the Chiefs? Doesn't feel like it, and they haven't interviewed. They haven't interviewed anyone. in the Niners, like, what's, what's the hold up here? It's been a very, very bizarre search. As someone to just, I watch a lot of NFC West football. I obviously just followed that division, those teams really closely. I don't know.

I have a hard time gauging what the hell's happening. I really do. My guess would be, though, your quarterback next year. I bet Gino starts the year as the quarterback, and I would be, I bet with your first couple picks, you take a quarterback. If I was a betting man, I'd say the second round, but I would definitely say trading up in the draft and drafting guy in the first round, it's on the table.

You know, maybe trading a first round pick next year and going from, I don't know what, let's just pick a number. You might have 17, 18, going from like 18, 19 to 9. I could see you doing some. Remember the Bears did that a couple years ago? They went from 20 to 11, and they got Justin Fields. I think that's kind of what I could see you guys doing this upcoming year.

The volume. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.

Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get. your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. on the Look Back at it podcast For 1979

That was a big moment for me 84 was big to me I'm Sam Jay And I'm Alex English Each episode We pick a year unpack what went down And try to make sense

of how we survived it With our friends Fellow comedians And favorite authors Like Mark Lamont Hill On the 80s It was a wild It was a wild year

I don't think There's a more important year for black people Listen to look back at it On the Iheart radio app Apple Podcasts Or wherever you Get your podcasts.

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