The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 3 and Out - Bidding war for Belichick, Lions prices go up, the Rodgers comeback is OVER

Episode Date: December 21, 2023

John reacts to the news that the Patriots are trying to have a bidding war to trade Bill Belichick and if trading head coaches is the right move, the Lions are finally good and have raised ticket prices and fans aren't thrilled after being horrible for years, TNF Preview, and Aaron Rodgers finally admits he's not 100% Lastly, John answers your questions for this week's mailbag segments. 5:06 - Bidding war for Belichick 9:27 - Lions ticket prices 12:32 - Thursday Night Football Preview 18:04 - Aaron Rodgers' comeback 23:11 - Mailbag 23:21 - Could Elon Musk make a good head coach 26:39 - Is Pete Carroll out-dated 38:20 - Should the Bears trade for Herbert Follow John on Twitter, Instagram and YouTube for the latest. Check out Gametime - the fastest growing ticketing app in the US, and the official ticketing app of 3 & Out and GoLow -  for tickets to all of your favorite NFL, NBA, NHL, NCAA teams. Concert and comedy show tickets, too. Go to Gametime now to create an account, download the app and use code JOHN for $20 off your first purchase. #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

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I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people.

Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The volume. NFL fans, it's time to unwrap nonstop football action. This holiday season, throw down on the big matchups with Draft King Sportsbook, an official sports betting partner of the NFL. This week, new customers can bet just five bucks on the NFL and score 150 instantly in bonus bets.

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See dkng.com slash football for eligibility and deposit restriction, terms and responsible gaming resources. What is going on, everybody, John Middlecoff, Three and Out podcast? How are we doing? It's Wednesday, middle of the week, Christmas right around the corner,

New Year's right around the corner. This is just a great time to mail everything in, which I would imagine most of you are doing, not as focused, kids off from school, having a good time, and enjoying yourself. We have some stories today. Belichick, that the Patriots are potentially creating a bidding war. I think you can throw Mike Tomlin in there as well.

I think this is the stupidest story I've ever heard, and we will dive into that. The Lions are raising ticket prices. We have a Thursday night game, Rams hosting the Saints, and the Roger story is officially dead. He is no longer having the craziest comeback we've ever seen, so we can move on from that. And I'm going to do a couple mailback questions. At John Middlecough.

at John Middlecoff is the Instagram firing those DMs and get your question to answer here on the show Other than that We got a YouTube channel Put all the content up there Obviously if you're listening on Collins feed Make sure you subscribe to the three and out feed

Appreciate everyone that has done that And make sure you get Christmas presents If you need one, thevolume.com We got hats, flex fits Let's dive into some football But before we do I need you to grab your smartphone And when you grab your smartphone

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Get yourself, someone you love, a present, and get some tickets and save a little money while you're at it. Just go to the GameTime app, find the pair of tickets you want to any event, to any event. use the promo code John, that's J-O-H-N, J-O-H-N, promo code John, and save $20. Thank me later. Okay, I've really had enough with this conversation around trading coaches this offseason. Could they create a bidding war for Bill Belichick?

What could the Steelers get for Mike Tom? When you don't want a guy anymore, you fire him. that is football. That is coaching in general. When you are over said coach, you fire the guy. This is not players where if he has value, you trade him. One, let's start with Bill Belichick. His value to the franchise, I don't know, with Tom,

is worth billions of dollars given all the Super Bowl rings, success, notoriety, and just headlines. He's brought your franchise, good and bad. He made an irrelevant franchise, a region dominated by the Boston Red Sox and the Boston Celtics. He created a franchise that was the number one headliner for two freaking decades. Bill Belichick is not getting traded. Neither is Mike Tomlin. If you want to get rid of them, you're not ruining a relationship.

Because if I'm one of those guys, I call your bluff. If you're trying to create a bidding war, I don't want to go somewhere without a second round pick. Sean Payton was traded because he quit. The Saints didn't want to get rid of him. They wouldn't have fired him. They would have extended him. They would have given him more money. John Gruden once upon a time was traded from the Raiders to the bucks

because Al Davis was ever going to pay him. Al Davis didn't think he wasn't good. Al Davis was just cheap. He didn't think coaches were worth what he was going to get. It wasn't because he wanted to fire the guy. So when you look at these situations, Robert Kraft is over Bill Belichick. And when you're in that situation,

and both guys don't have five years remaining on their contract. They have one year. So to me, if I'm either guy, I would, if that is even an option, and one, I think both guys, and starting with Belichick, he's a guy that's going to get a statue in front of Foxboro. And Mike Tomlin, while he won't get a statue, he's one of the pillars of your organization. When you think about the history of the Pittsburgh Steelers, let's face it, Mike Tomlin plays a massive, massive role when talking, you don't want to run.

ruin the relationship. Under no circumstance, if I was either guy, would I allow the franchise to trade me? I don't think it's an option. And I think the owners are trying to act tough, specifically craft, because that's how Belichick's operated forever. But this is not a situation where you trade a player. And because the NFL's a management coaching league, players don't have any leverage. They get, if you want to trade a guy or cut a guy, you do it. Right. But in this instance, Belichick and Tomlin have a lot of leverage. They can simply see. say, no, I'm not doing it, especially if they know you don't want them back, force them to fire you. And they would. And what are you going to do? Make it really, really ugly and carry it on to the

middle or late January to try to screw them with another organization. You want to ruin the relationship? I just don't think it's worth it. So to me, this is a lot of talk. It's fun right now in December. I can't envision either coach allowing themselves to get traded to somewhere else and give up a pick that I don't know they would need. Sean Payton didn't want to get traded. He just had no leverage. Why? Because he quit.

He was under contract. And the Saints, the Saints didn't want fucking Dennis Allen to be their head coach. They wanted it to be Sean Peyton. Sean Payton's like, I'm over this. And then a year later, he's like, I want back in. They're like, what the hell, man? That's not going to fly.

That is not the case here. Even when Belichick was technically traded from the Jets to the Patriots, they gave him the head coaching job. The Jets wanted Belichick, and he was like, no, screw you guys. I'm not working for Parcells. I'm over this. I'm out. And that's why he retired on that day when he got up at the podium and said,

I'm residing as the head coach of the New York Jets. So the guys that have been traded, right, have all those teams wanted to keep that guy. One chose, he couldn't afford them. And the other two, the guys quit on him. So that is not going to be the instance here. I expect both guys, if they are not the coaches with said organizations next year, the Patriots and the Steelers to be fired. A story I saw today,

there's a price that comes with winning. I think a lot of times, and it's hard. No one gets emotional with like Apple, right? When they raise prices on the iPhone, it's like, yeah, fuck, cost them more to make now,

you know? Or, you know, you go out to eat and it's more expensive. You're like, yeah, you know, the price of cows have just gone up. But when price of tickets go up

with sporting events, like, what the hell? It's like, yeah. The Lions are raising ticket prices by 30 plus percent. Well, they have been historically bad for a long, long time. Even just like basically the last six, seven years. They've been an embarrassment.

They're running a business and its basic supply and demand. Supply ain't changing. Same amount of seats. Well, guess what? More people want to go to the games. Why? They're fun watch. It's entertainment.

And if you can charge more for the product, and Dan Campbell was asked about it today and honestly wasn't too happy. He was kind of mad that he got asked that question. I have nothing to do with that. Of course he has nothing to do with it, though he directly impacts it because he's done a good job and the franchise is good. But when your team has success, it costs more to see them. I saw it when I lived in the Bay Area with the Warriors. When I first moved back in 2012 from Philadelphia, the Warriors were just starting to become interesting with Steph and Clay.

You could go to a game for relatively cheap. Four or five years later, by the time Kevin Durant was coming, it was only the tech elite sitting in the lower bowl. It was only rich people going to the game. And they already had their eyes set on moving across to the richer area in town in San Francisco and get the fuck out of Oakland just like every other team. And it's all about money. That's, I think people sometimes lose sight of this. And I'm sometimes jaded because I'm so close to it. And I view sports simply like a business.

Like, I view every size strictly economically. Now, it doesn't mean I don't get excited when I watch games and living in the moment. If I go to a game, like it's fun, don't get me wrong. but I think I have the ability to take a step back and just look at it very unemotionally when it comes to the numbers, right? Why did this guy get cut? He can still play.

Well, his cap number is too high and he refused to take a pay cut. This just isn't that complicated, right? So I think the Lions are a good example of when you get good in sports and you haven't been good in a while, you don't have a choice but to raise ticket prices. Like, that's the business they're in,

to make more money. That's the point of business is to make money. And it's so in vogue on social media to talk shit about capitalism. I hope everyone understands the point of the private sector. There's a lot of fluff.

There's a lot of people BS in their way with words and tweets. It's all about money. And the lions are no different than Apple are no different than McDonald's. It's about making more of the almighty dollar. And you can argue with inflation, the dollar's never been worth more

or less. to make more of it. Listen, the costs are only going up in the NFL. The players only cost more. And Dan Campbell ain't going to be cheap to keep. It's kind of the cost of doing business when you get good in the sport of football. We have a Thursday night game right around the corner. It's the Saints at the Rams. And I just wrote down, I think, a couple headlines that if the Rams were to beat the Saints or if the Saints were to beat the Rams. And I think both these two teams are right now on the fringes. They're both seven and seven. I think the Rams are better than the Saints.

I like the Rams in this matchup. I think they have a huge advantage at coach. Obviously, Sean McVeigh on his worst days, better than Dennis Allen and his best. And the quarterback combination is not even close. Matt Stafford is a far, far superior player than Derek Carr. But, you know, you never know. Thursday night games, late in the season, they get weird and they get weird fast. I think if the Rams win this game, I'd have to, I mean, I've already had to take the

Major L. Their season so far has been a reason, like, that's the reason you pay $15, $18, $20 million for a coach. This is the reason we are so hard on the Spanos family. Because when you pay a premium for a guy who's elite, like, yeah, when your team is loaded, he can win you a Super Bowl. What about when your team's got a bunch of random rookies and an older veteran quarterback who's been beaten up and a star defense attacker who threatens to retire? and 99% of people can't name another player on the defense. Can you compete? No, I can't only compete.

I'm going to make the playoffs. I'm going to go 9 and 8 or 10 and 7. That's what I'm going to do. And this is why it's like, well, if you keep hiring these guys who have no business being your head coach and then bitch and moan every year while you win, you know, you underachieve or don't get the job done, you only have yourself to blame. And I think Sean McVeigh and Les Sneed have had the ultimate muscle flex of like, This is a really, really high-level organization.

And this is also, and I don't mean to wrap the chargers into this, I just think there's no place for them in L.A. I understand financially why they went, and they love telling everybody about their new practice facility. They honestly are the last team that matters in Los Angeles. Because even the Clippers, who are, you know, a Grand Canyon wide gap behind the Lakers in interest despite having star players,

have been there for a long time. I mean, the L.A. Clippers have been there. It feels like the majority of my 39 years on this life. I think they moved there in the 80s. But it's like, it just doesn't make any sense. But if you are going to try, you better try to get a superstar. And that's what the Rams have. When I close my eyes and I think about the Rams,

I don't think Aaron Donald, who's going to the Hall of Fame. I don't think Matt Stafford, who's made $400 million playing football and won a Super Bowl. I think Sean McVeigh. He's the star. Like, he's their Pat Riley. Right? I mean, he's their star.

the guy that I would put on the billboard would be their coach. And he's had just a fantastic year. And on the flip side, if the Rams beat the Saints, like, I'm sorry, Dennis Allen and Derek Carr have been another disaster. Now, Dennis Allen, we saw coming. He's just not a head coach. And some people aren't. And I say this over and over.

There's nothing wrong with being a number two in the NFL. It pays $2 to $3 million. Like, he would be a sought-after defensive coordinator. He's really good. He's just not very good at the coach. And listen, Derek's one of the more polarizing guys. of the last, I don't know, 20 years. He just joined a list of players in NFL history

that includes two other guys that have played 10 years and thrown for 3,000 yards in every single season. It was Peyton Manning and Dan Marino. It was just sustainability, longevity, availability, but you watch him this year, and listen, I've watched Derek Carr's play since he was in high school.

And I've defended him some years with the Raiders because I thought he was better than the way people talked about him. But I've watched a lot of Saints football this year and it hasn't been good. Period. Point blank. I mean, it just, it hasn't. The offensive coordinator is him. He will not get hit.

He wants no part of getting hit, which I wouldn't either, but I'm not being paid $30, $40 million to sit in the pocket and throw strikes. And he's not good enough to kind of ad lib. He's definitely not good enough to not step into throws. And it shows throughout the season. Honestly, I'll do this. the other flip side of this, I will be stunned, stunned if the Rams lose this game. Now, if the Saints win this game, their season is going to come down to the following week. And somehow they've kept

their, you know, head above water, and they play Tampa next week in Tampa, which would feel like for all the marbles. And here's what you would say about the Saints. If they are able to win the division at 9 and 8, if they were to beat Tampa Bay and win the South, that home stadium would be rocking. Now, they would be a heavy underdog to either the Cowboys or the Eagles, but it's a tough place to play. So you wouldn't no one's going to bet on Dennis Allen

or Derek Carr, given that obviously Derek's never won a playoff game. He's actually I think only played in the one because the other year he broke his ankle and Dennis obviously has never coached in a playoff game as a head coach. But you'd say, hey, maybe that home field, maybe things get weird, and his football.

It's a one-off situation. But I still think any Saints fan listening to this would tell you to your face. Yeah, can both these guys go? And again, it would just put a lot of pressure on the Rams the final two weeks. I mean, they play the Niners, the final game. And who knows, that could come down to, do the Niners still have anything to play for? Are they resting guys?

But you just, anytime you get a home Thursday night game late in the season, it does feel a little must win. The last but not least, the Aaron Rod. conversation, I think, has been exhausting. And I was someone that picked him to win the vision. So I have no problem talking about Aaron when he's playing. It's fun. He's a polarizing guy.

Everyone has an opinion on him when he's playing good, when he's playing bad. He's just, you know, one of the stars of all of sports. And he's just an interesting guy to talk about because of some of his failures in the postseason. You can blame him. You can blame the defense. But this year was going to be an opportunity to kind of have his Tom Brady mom. And that was ripped away from his five plays in. And he said today that, you know, he plans on playing, you know, past 2024.

I do think this conversation, and I understand if I was in his shoes, hating everyone that talks about sports and, you know, talk shit about him. I get it. But I do think this entire discussion over the Achilles injury about returning, you know, I've always defended him because I think he's one of the best players I've ever witnessed. and I've seen him live several times he's just an all-time great player but it's like was he a little into himself that he hate not being talked about after kind of owning the headlines

and have to keep himself in the headlines by saying I'm going to play this year you were never going to play this year and I don't pretend to be some fucking doctor here but give me a break and so if I'm not 100% no shit in one even at 80%

they're going to put you behind that offensive line that Zach Wilson who at this point in time is a far superior athlete, can't get away to save his life, and they're going to put you back there? No. This conversation has been one of the dumbest because it was never going to happen, ever going to happen. He was never going to play again. And listen, when he keeps throwing his name in there, it's going to keep being talked about.

Now, finally, we can just end the conversation about the return for the Achilles' injury. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined.

And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and you. and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jek.

And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 was big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack.

So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history.

Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple. podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Chiefs over Cowboy Super Bowl Guarantee. We'll do a little mailbag. Here's how you get in the mailbag. At John Middlecoff is the Instagram. I'll just fire off a couple questions. We'll start with Jake.

This is a quick question. See across the business world, successful leaders, crushing industries they aren't necessarily experts in, have worked in their whole career, essentially valuing historical success more than industry expertise. why do sports, especially the NFL, seem to be gated? As if you can only become a coach or GM if you've worked your way up in that industry your whole life.

For example, while he'd never do it, wouldn't Elon Musk be the best NFL coach if he ever wanted to? Is an offensive playbook really more complicated than literal rocket science? Well, here would be my pushback. I think let's use Elon, for example, You know, from SpaceX to Starlink to Tesla.

Those are products, right? So if I create the car, which I listened to Elon the other day at the gym, he was on Rogan within the last couple of months, and he talked, like the hardest part about building cars is the manufacturing. Right? And the Starlink, who I know a ton of people have it, is just fucking remarkable product. Nothing is even sniffed that product. My brother is a farmer who's all over the place.

He's like, I get elite internet no matter where I. go. Ultimately, once you master the product, you just sell it over and over and over and over and over again. I don't follow the SpaceX stuff. I don't have as much in common with the space stuff as that generation, as people over 50, 60, like Richard Branson, Jeff Bezos, I don't know. My generation, we'd already been to space by the time I was born. I don't give a shit. There is no amount of money, and I mean no amount of money you could pay me to go up to space absolutely none

one no interest two my life's too valuable because I only have one and I just I just have no interest none but I think once you master the product you just sell it over and over

like once you master a football play that's only one play and the other thing is like the product like ultimately Tesla the car and I know he has several different models it's once you create it and fine tune it, you just do it over and over and over again and just sell it to different

people. Like you have to create a million different plays. You have a million different variables by different opponents, individuals, you have motivation factors, you have guys playing well, guys playing bad. There's such a human element to sports that doesn't exist in business, right? If you're just selling whatever. If you're a great, if you own a trucking company and also own a alcohol product. Well, once I create whatever said alcohol product is, shout out to Guinness and my trucks, it's just kind of self-sufficient. And I'm not saying it's that simple, but there are way more variables on a weekly basis

in a football game than there are on getting my product to the consumer. So I hear what you're saying, and I don't think it's a crazy question, but I, I just don't think it's even close to being apples to apples, I guess would be my long-winded way of saying it. Watching every NFL season for more than 15 years, and you are the best to watch. I like this guy. Do you think Pete Carroll is outdated and that he is the reason why the Seahawks are a mess on defense?

I think they have a lot of great players, but it simply isn't working, thanks in advance. I think he 100% is outdated, right? Defensive scheme-wise, they're just not good on defense. They haven't been good on defense in years. and they invest a shitload into that side of the ball. But I do think Pete, one, his energy and leadership is fantastic. I think his motivation and just ability to lead a team is still really good. I think as an in-game coach, I don't think he's that good.

I mean, he was blowing timeouts in that game against the Eagles, which could have easily bit him in the ass. Then he's asking for the timeout back, which maybe he just, you know, any one of us would do the same, or maybe he believes that he should get the timeout back. So I think there are outdated qualities to him, though I still think relative to the rest of the NFL, he's probably better.

But yeah, defensive scheme-wise, they haven't been good on defense in forever. And that's his baby. And they invest a lot into that side of the ball. And I think philosophically it's pretty clear what he wants to do on offense. Run the ball, run the ball, run the ball, take some deep shots. But, you know, I don't think he's just like, oh, open the offense, sling that pill around.

That's not really his, you know, MO. but I have a different view on the Bears for this upcoming draft. I believe they could find more value in trading the number one overall pick and dropping down a few spots to get Marvin Harrison and possibly some offensive linemen from a team desperate for Caleb. They will also have their top 10 pick to get more linemen to protect fields. They already have a quarterback in Justin that seems to not have hit his ceiling with an offensive coach.

I believe they could become a top team in the NFC. North, Justin Fields is not an accurate passer. Listen, I had the guy pegged as my number two quarterback in that draft, and he definitely is the second best of that group, but, you know, and Trevor Lawrence is not playing great right now. But you can't build around a guy going into his fourth year whose accuracy is a major issue. He's not an accurate player. So when you're not accurate, and his contract's running up, just to get a couple more splash

plays, that's not a sustainable way to play. That's why cousins started becoming, let's face it, a really, really good player as he got older. He's a very accurate passer. Accuracy really, really matters. And Caleb, listen, there's no guarantee he's going to be any good, but he's definitely way more accurate than Justin Fields. And he brings the athleticism and movement skills. He's not as fast as Fields, but you can't keep Fields. I just don't believe, because it's, you roll it back, and even if he's 5, 10% better than this year, what are you going to do? You got a great opportunity because of this trade. I think you cash in the chips.

I believe that. Now, if I thought Fields was better, I would understand where you're coming from and I would agree, but I, listen, I don't think he's good enough to build around, especially when you factor in his contract and, like, you're a year away from, if you keep him, like, what's he worth? I know you don't believe in Baker But what would it take for Baker to get a long-term contract extension? Making the playoffs doesn't seem enough considering their division But if by some miracle they defeat the Cowboys or the Eagles in the first round Doesn't it warrant a three or five-year contract?

Ah Maybe get like a two-year You know 40 million dollar deal guarantee him like 25 Something like that I could see that on the table Because I think his numbers are pretty similar to Tom last year they clearly like him a lot, but I've watched him a lot this season,

and it's like he's had some rough games. Now, you win a playoff game, you win the division, you beat the Saints. I think he definitely, I think right now he's getting one year, $15, $12 million, which just view it like yourself.

If you're making $100 grand right now and you do well and they triple your salary and all of a sudden you make $300,000 or $350,000, fuck, huge win. But he's making $4 million this year. So it's like, hey, you're way better than we thought, here's one year $13 million. That's 3x.

Here's $15 million. Right? That's 5x. Or excuse me, $12 million to be $4x. So imagine being 50, making $50 grand and getting off for 200 grand. That's the equivalent. So that's a huge, huge pay raise relative to a guy like, I can't get Baker Mayfield, $25, $30 million a year. I couldn't.

But to me, definitely he's earned $12, $15 million, which, like I said, for him, would be a pretty, pretty big financial win. Especially a guy that, I mean, Coward thought he should retire before the season, which I thought was crazy, because his value as, you know, one day, he might be like the next Herbstreter, Joel Clat. You can fail in the pro.

No one cares. Like, I've never seen Herbstreid or Clat throw an NFL pass. No one gives a fuck. Matt Liner is fantastic on college football. He was an NFL bust. It does not matter. It does not matter.

And Baker has actually had not only had a relatively successful career, not relative to the number one pick, not ideal, but he definitely is resurrecting his career. Okay, question about the Bengals. Clearly their defense is much worse than it has been the first few years, but the majority of their funds are going to be tied up on offense for the next five. Higgins is set to be a free agent this off season, and I was wondering what you think the front office should do.

Would you pay T and then Jammar, or would you invest a little in defense? I think T. Higgins will not be on the Cincinnati Bengals next year. Because I don't think you can't afford to pay Jamar Chase as what, $25, $30 million player. What's T. Higgins? 1820. I don't believe you can pay two wide receivers that much money. It's the conendrum the 49ers are in.

Debo Samuel makes a ton. I think he makes like $25 million a year. Well, Brennan Ayukes do a contract this offseason. And listen, he's not a $30 million guy, but he definitely is not a $12 million guy. it's hard to have that much invested into the wide receiver position. So I think T. Higgins could be traded. Honestly, I think Brandon Ayuk is crazy. It sounds could be traded too. Now that one's a little different, but I don't know.

I mean, I think these are discussions because of how much they cost. If T. Higgins, Brandon Ayuk, guys like that play tight end or linebacker, it would be a no-brainer. They don't cost as much. But when you start talking about number two wide receivers, and I got to pay my number two wide receiver $21 million a year. That's a lot, man. That's a lot of money.

I mean, that's like a starting guard, a starting detackle, a starting linebacker, and a starting slot corner. I mean, it adds up pretty fast. Big Dolphins fan in post-injuries, Tua, absolutely cannot do this. Oh, because you have enlightened me on the ability to bail out your play call. Tua absolutely cannot do that. The whole operation is basically on McDaniel's shoulders. My biggest fear is we give Tua a job.

shit ton of money and we will be screwed when we can't pay for weapons. We are so effed if we move off him because he clearly has talent. I prefer the rookie quarterback contract model because I'll have dementia by the time they find another arena. What should the dolphins do? Well, this is two as what year. This is his fourth. It's tough.

And this is why back to Fields, now obviously he's been much more successful than Fields. when you feel you have Burrough, Mahomes, Alan, a guy that's just a no-brainer, even Lamar, like, it's so much easier. When you're like kind of on the fence, like if you're kind of on the fence of Marringer, probably don't get engaged. Like if you're kind of on the fence about taking a job and you have a good job, like probably don't do it. To me, kind of on the fence on big decisions, I do think you got to be careful.

I do think because you're on the fence for a reason. Now, it doesn't mean people can't improve. It doesn't mean your mind can't change, but I don't know. I might just play it out. Now, the problem is, I don't have his contract up, but the fifth year option is obviously very expensive. It all hit your cap like the franchise tag. So ideally, you extend them and you make a lower cap number,

but it's not like he's taking $30 million a year. Like he's going to want $45 million a year. Can he pay Tuatanga by a low of $45 million a year? Maybe you can if he beats the Cowboys and the Bills. You could argue this stretch is pretty fucking big. It's big boy football now. I know you beat the Robert Sol of Jets who have like averaged one touchdown a game for 13 games.

But okay, playing the Cowboys. And then we got the Ravens. And then we got Buffalo. And then we got the playoffs. Strapping that chin strap. Let's see what you got, homie. This is a very, very, very big stretch for Tuatong by low when it comes to money.

He wins two of the next three. Lights up the Ravens, lights up. up the bills, wins a playoff game? Yeah, what are you going to do? It gets ugly. I don't know. You tell me. I wouldn't feel comfortable if it gets ugly. How legitimate are coaching staff positions? We understand the head coach, DC, and OC are crucial, but what about ancillary positions? What comes to mind as Matt Patricia getting hired back as a football advisor to the Patriots after his Detroit stint. I think when you get those like analysts or senior assistant,

unless you are around the coaching staff, it's hard to define what they do. Your O-Line and D-Line coach are every bit as big as coordinators. Your offensive line and defensive line coach can like make your team. And usually the offensive line coach plays an enormous role in the game plan when it comes to the run game. So they just play a huge, and even the past game when it comes to protections.

Your offensive line coach is typically one of the highest paid guys on the team. Your offensive line coach in the NFL makes seven figures if he's worth the salt. And your defensive line coach, if he's good, is worth a lot of money. And the good thing most defensive line coaches don't end up becoming coordinators

because the coordinator is really about the secondary and definitely the back seven. That's why a lot of linebacker coaches and DB coaches become coordinators. It's no different. why a lot of quarterback coaches ultimately become coordinators, because that's kind of the way you view it's about the passing game. But to me, the line coaches really matter a lot.

Now, obviously, if you have a good running back coach, a good wide receiver coach, a good linebacker coach, typically why I say Duce Daly is one of the better position coaches in the league, because I've seen it, like Duce Daly is a star. You know, Keith Williams, the wide receiver coach in Baltimore. Stud, baller, badass. I mean, he's awesome. But I've been around him, right?

and Jim Washburn and now Chris Kasurik with the Raiders, or excuse me, the 49ers, they're D-Line coach. He's highest paid D-Line coach in the league for a reason. He's really good at his job. And if you get a great D-Line coach, you get a good offensive line coach. You never let him go. That's why Jeff Stoutland has been with the Eagles for a decade. Because it doesn't matter who comes in.

Jeffrey Lurich goes, I'm going to offer you this job, but Jeff Statlin is going to be your offensive line coach. And they pay Jeff Stoutland a lot of money to say, yeah, I'll stay with this guy. So when it comes to those Like senior advisors and you know It all depends Some of them run projects Some of them self-scout

I would say everyone's a little different What are your thoughts of the If the Chargers traded Herbert To the Bears for the number one pick I just It's not an option It's not an option Under no circumstances would they do that

Now I guess for business reasons And this is what he said Midwest Ethos guy and the Chargers take Caleb, who's already an L.A. guy. Then the Spanos fam can spend on a coach. I guess you could justify it from a business standpoint, though. It gets complicated when you give the big contracts. You pay huge signing bonuses.

It hurts your dead cap. If Herbert wasn't under contract yet, I guess I could see that. And I would 100%, I would trade you the number one pick if I was the bearer's for Justin Herbert. And if he wasn't extended, give him a huge extension. That'd be the easiest trade in NFL history. I don't know, you know, it's easy to talk about and it's a fun conversation. There's no guarantee anyone's ever going to be good coming out of the draft. No guarantee.

Zero. I mean, we see it over and over. High picks at any position don't live up to it. And then the dude in the 20s is like T.J. Watt. It happens all the fucking time. So I don't think even if it was available, you could do it. Okay, last question. In regards to the full-time, part-time referee discussion,

I think the question, what would they do during the week, is a weak excuse. Collaborative rule interpretation, peer review game calling, game simulations, and upcoming game information review are just a few options right at the top of my head. If the NFL can hire people to pick through games for non-penalized hits that didn't result in an injury or players, the NFL can pay the refs to be full-time. If making refs full-time employees resulted in 10 less blown calls, it would be more than worth it. I completely disagree. I don't think it would change the shitty calls at all.

I think it would have the level of improvement, let's just assume there would be, would be minute. It would be small. I do not think it would be like, I don't think there would be some major gap and like they used to be 30% good and now they're 75% good. I'm calling bullshit on that.

Now, I think the NFL is more just about the money. Like, why am I paying you full time? Like I said, what are you doing all week? Because to me, for you to pay me full-time, meaning I can't have another job, and I don't have the rough salary, but let's just say they're paid $250,300 grand. I can also have another job to double that income

or do whatever I want. I mean, times the most valuable thing any of us have. What am I going to have to pay you? $800,000? And so I don't think the NFL is like, for what? Like, what's the point? Referees have always been bad. Like, we think it's worse.

It's the same. It's been shitty forever. I think the slow motion, the reviews make it feel worse. It's always been bad. We're talking about human beings. So as we gamble on this, like, listen, I've been mad gambling on games for 20 years. I mean, it feels worse just because everything feels worse at the time.

Like, this is the craziest election we're ever going to have. No, we've had crazy elections before, and we'll have crazy ones again. You know, but it always feels like, this is the craziest time in human history. No, we've had some crazy fucking times. Pick up a history book. It doesn't repeat itself, but it damn sure rhymes. So I promise you. Like, we've had crazy times in history.

My daddy used to tell me that all the time and it's so true. Everyone's like, oh my God! No, it's like, look back. If you were Roger Goodell's position, paying the refs to be full-time cost you, an extra 128 per playoff game, no way. It's not about the cost.

It's about my return on investment. What's the point? I don't understand the point. Simulated games, they probably already do that on the side. What the fuck does that even mean? I don't, you act like these people just like don't even think about football

Monday through first. They do stuff. I've seen these referees go to practice in training camp. I don't think you're like improving your skills. This isn't like going to the driving range in golf. And the more you do it, the more you go to the putting green. It's not the same. The ROI on this one, I don't think would look like the way you were describing. I really don't. So you could argue it's not even about the money. It's about what's the point? Because in theory, this feels like a classroom. Like, well, in theory. They would improve. No, I think in theory doesn't equal reality.

It really doesn't. I mean, I've seen these guys at training camp make calls and everyone's screaming out of them in training camp. Like, it's just, it's hard. When you have Justin Jefferson running full speed at whoever, Tarverius Ward or Darius Slay,

like, it's a bang, bang play. It's hard to figure out. It's so much easier for us sitting on the couch eating flavored pretzels and drinking a Gatorade to be like, oh, that fucking idiot. And listen, I it all the time. I love doing it. I love talking shit about the refs that are now making half a million dollars that come on my television screen that I don't want to hear from that always tell me something is going to be challenged and it's going to be overturned and then it doesn't get

overturned. They're never right if they're always on television. But I just, I'm going to disagree with you hard that it would improve much because I really just don't believe it. The volume. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite on Humor Me with Robert Smygel and Friends, me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

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