The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 3 and Out - Brees All-Time Rank; Seattle/GB #1 Seed Battle; Bad Ownership; Eagles/Cowboys Showdown; AFC Playoff Picture; Weekend Thoughts

Episode Date: December 17, 2019

In this episode, Middlekauff discusses the prolonged excellence of Dew Brees, where he would rank all-time with another Super Bowl, why he doesn't buy that the Seahawks and Packers are the top teams in the NFC despite currently being the top two seeds, the insurmountable curse of bad ownership, and the upcoming massive Eagles/Cowboys NFC East matchup. He also gives his takeaways from Week 15 and answers listener questions in the Middlekauff Mailbag. Follow John on twitter @JohnMiddlekauff and go to theherdnow.com to find the latest content. Subscribe now! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise,

breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headlines. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her.

What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, Wreck, my mama want you to weigh better. What? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app,

Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season, and I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was hiring.

you just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis come in till he's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs.

This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Winter Olympics are streaming on Peky live. Your All Access Pass to stream every event every day. The Winter Olympics on NBC and Peeca. What is going on, everybody, John Middlecough, three and out podcast. Back at it again after a, you know, a pretty cool weekend.

We had the Heisman Trophy, a bunch of, you know, some decent games. I wouldn't call them great games over the weekend. And then we have this Monday night game, which, you know, I wouldn't exactly call it a classic 34 to 7 Saints destroy them. But any time you get a record, and Drew Breeze, we're going to dive right into, was just magnificent. I mean, he was 29 to 30 for four touchdowns. What a special, special player. And we got a lot to talk about today.

Seattle, Green Bay, I mean, they might be two of the top seeds in the NFC, and I don't even think they're that good. We'll dive into that, relatively speaking. I mean, I think they're playoff-level teams. But, you know, for two teams that could go 13 and 3, it's pretty wild. Now, as Parcells would say you are, what your record says you are.

Bad ownership, I thought, really flexed his muscles this week all around the league from coast to coast, from Oakland to Cleveland to Washington. There's something special about bad ownership, that's for sure. The Eagles and Cowboys. You know, I think we all said, trust me, I led the charge. The NFCE sucks.

It's going to be an easy playoff victory. Not so fast. The AFC playoff picture, I'm going to go into just trending up, trending down, then just some weekend thoughts, just different things I wrote down from the weekend that were cool. And then, of course, the Middlecoff mailbag. Ad John Middlecoff is my Twitter and Instagram handle. If you want to get on the show, slide up into Instagram, and you can ask me anything. It's always open.

Instagram DM's wide open. Slide up in there. My name, shoot me a question. Shoot your shot. Let's start with Monday night. And I think Drew Breeze epitomizes what's so great about this country and this world is you don't need to be the most talented person to reach the epitome of success in whatever you're giving field. You know, the smartest people aren't the richest, right?

The best athletes aren't always the best players in pro sports. The most talented people in any business are consistently, Not the best. Why? Because typically to be the best, there are intangible aspects to your life to separate from the pack. How hard you work, your drive, how disciplined you are, willing to do the things that you can't quantify.

Because let's take a step back. Drew Brees is short for NFL standards. He's barely six feet tall. He is not a good athlete. He sure as hell does not have a good arm. It's not strong at all. I'd call it average at best. Now, his defining characteristic as a player is accuracy.

And that's something that he clearly works really, really hard at. And then from an intangible standpoint, he went to one of the biggest joke franchises in the history of the league and made them with Sean Payton, you know, cream of the crop franchise. He willed them with his coach to become credible. went to a Super Bowl, won it, and never looked back.

And, you know, when he broke the record tonight and he's broken, I think, two of Peyton Manning's records the last like 12 months, it's impossible not to like the guy. It truly is. Reggie Bush tweeted out a video, or maybe Instagram the video, and the Saints picked it up and they tweeted it out.

I would highly recommend, if you haven't seen it, to go Google it, the Saints' Twitter account from, would have been Monday. Just type it in. Reggie Bush on Drew Breeze. And it's just him in the dome on Sunday after the walkthrough by himself in the red zone. No players running drills by himself.

Mental reps. I've never seen anything quite like that. And Reggie's given commentary in the back like, God, this is what it takes to be one of the all-time greats. Because even with Drew Breeze with all-the-all-time greats, because even with all-time and all the touchdowns and all the winning he's done for a crappy franchise. They're not crappy anymore because of him and Sean. I still feel he's underrated because when you think top 10 quarterbacks, he typically doesn't come to mind immediately.

And I'd argue. You know, the top five is relatively set, at least in my mind, modern football, like 70s and on. Brady, Joe, Marino, Elway, Manning. You can put those after Brady and Joe. the other three in any order you want. Elway, Marino, Manning. Then there's this group of like Steve Young, Brett Farv, Aaron Rogers,

kind of that whole crew. And I think I'd make a pretty strong argument when it's all said and done. Drew Bree is probably going to have a better career and a more loaded resume than all those guys. Than Young, then Farv, and then Rogers. Now, if he gets another Super Bowl, which he's clearly going to be in a position to do this year,

I think it would solidify him over that group. But to me, what he stands for as kind of the poster child of the league, during the Brady and Manning era, you kind of get lost in the shuffle. But I remember watching a video of Zach Streif, who's now the play-by-play. He went from being an offensive tackle to being the play-by-play guy for the Saints. And when he retired, he was in tears. Calling Drew Breeze, not the greatest player, not the greatest leader,

but the greatest person he'd ever been around. And he would miss just being around him in the building. And Carson Palmer said something to me that will always stand out, that he said one of the things he misses most about playing is the pressure that you feel from being the quarterback when you walk into a building. Like that is an immense amount of pressure. Even if you're listening and you're the top guy in your individual office,

at the end of the day, if you're the number one sales guy, guy or the number one engineer. Like, not everyone's looking to you every day. And there's not always a microphone in front of your face. Like, you can't really slip up. You are the spokesman to a public job. And literally, having half the team is dependent on your play to get them the ball, to play well when they're blocking for you, to hand them the ball.

Like, they couldn't be any more dependent on a human than they are on a quarterback. And the entire coaching staff is dependent on the guy to execute a game plan. and his intangible characteristics are just are immeasurable. They really are. And to me, he symbolizes what's so great about the national football. You don't see this really in basketball. Like, in basketball, you have to have, one, you've got to be really tall. Like, there is a small percentage of guys like under 6'3 that have been great players in the NBA.

For the most part, most of the best players have been fantastic athletes. and then you just have to have a stupid skill, whether it's explosion, explosion, the ability to shoot, ability to run, it usually all kind of combined together. We're in football, especially at the quarterback position, think about the three guys that I listed of the last 20 years that are the three best players. Manning, it would be Brady, Manning, Breeze.

Who's the best athlete of the three? Breece? And he's not a great athlete at all. I'm telling you, he's an average athlete at best. Brady below average, Manning below average. And really Manning, like Breeze, it was just all desire. It was all want to. Like the amount of work they've put in when none of us have ever seen what they've been doing behind the scenes

would blow all of our minds, including myself. I can't even imagine the toll it takes on that human to sustain that level of play, that mindset for six months during the season. and have that level of pressure of the entire team, the entire franchise, the entire fan base, basically saying, we're on your back, you carry us to the Promise Land. Year in, year out. And Breeze, unlike those other two guys that are 6-5-66, he's tiny.

In a league where your smallest offensive lineman in 2000, you know, in the modern-day football is probably 6-4. So you're talking about a guy that 6-6 has 6-4-6-6 guys playing in front of him. Think how good you have to be at understanding where your players are when you can't totally seem. And he's going to go down as the most accurate quarterback in NFL history. I'm telling you, I think he's going to go down as one of the more underappreciated players in all of sports ever. Definitely in my lifetime. Like one of the most underappreciated athletes in all of sports.

What he's meant for the franchise. Just again, I mean, the main. of the year, the iconic picture with his kid with the, you know, the earmuffs on at the Super Bowl to how all of his kids are older now. If you follow him on Instagram, what a good family man he is. I think he's, you know, in this day and age with family, with just the famous people, I think we're always hesitant to say, and we've learned a hard lesson, right? I was like, God, Tiger's a great guy. And everything happens. You're like, oh, Tiger's got some issues. You know, we've just seen over the years, guys have different issues. You never truly know.

Well, I've heard enough stories that, like, Drew Brees is one of more genuine human beings in, like, league history. I don't even need to explain that to anyone listening. I think we all agree. But as a player, watching him the night how surgical he is, how intense he is, what a great leader he is. To me, he epitomizes really everything you can possibly want out of the quarterback position. It feels like he a little more than Manning, like Brady, is just this ultimate galvanizing leader. and I've had friends that have had joint practices with the Patriots over the years and just say, watching Tom at practice is just a sight to behold.

The standard in which he holds his players, how he's on everyone, how he's competing with the opposing defenses in a good way, but a very intense way. Like the level of these human beings, I think anyone that listened to Carson Palmer interview, I often think about these quarterbacks, and it's not just quarterbacks. I mean, Richard Sherman here in the Bay Area,

if he hadn't played football, he would have been successful in whatever he did. I mean, really, really successful. But the Breeze, the Brady, the Manning, like, that guy literally could do anything he wanted. Like, you want to run the Goldman Sachs? You want to be the president of Purdue University? You want to be a Navy SEAL? Like, what do you want to do?

Because there's nothing that, it makes you feel inferior, just thinking about it. Like, how much more complete of a human being this guy is? and as a diehard sports fan just been a joy to watch Drew Brees's career and it made a Monday night game that was terrible I mean I got

I don't want to say emotional but you just kind of feel moved by the guy you know and he had this happen last year and had it happen again and just the saints are good man I think they're going to be held to deal with in the off season then they got or I mean this in the in the playoffs

not the off season then Taysam Hill who was one of the great Swiss Army knives in recent memory. I googled. I was like, how much this guy make? He makes $650,000. Now he's a restricted free agent.

And I just tweeted off the cuff. I'm like, I think this guy might be like a $5 million player. That just kind of give or take a couple million. You know, I felt in that range. Just because he's catching touchdowns tonight. He's making blocks. He's on kickoff. He's carrying the ball.

He's staying in pass protection. He does it all. And then I text an exact. in the league. I'm like, this guy's a restricted free agent. What type money do you think this guy will get? And his response was, do you think he does one thing really well? And my response was no. I don't. I mean, I don't think there's one individual thing that you go, that's what he hangs his hat on. I think he does a lot of things well. He said, the problem with that, there's a ceiling then if you're a Swiss Army knife. Now, again, good thing to be in that industry. The ceiling, he said, was like a Cordarelle Patterson with the Bears. Got five million.

dollars. So he, I just kind of guess five million, he also agreed in that level. Now, his question was also well, if Sean Payton thinks you're a quarterback and Drew Breeze is old, why wouldn't you just stick around there and then maybe become the quarterback in the future? And I get a couple of buddies

tonight just randomly texting me. Could Tayson he'll be the future quarterback of the Saints? And my first response is no. Because if Sean Peyton thought that, Teddy Bridgewater won, he would not have resigned him at like $7.5 million. and two, when Drew Breeze hurt his thumb,

which is crazy to think about watching him shattered the record tonight, remember when he disappeared for a while and was in L.A. rehabbing that thumb? Who started and played the entire time? Teddy Bridgewater. If they really thought Taysam Hill was some future a quarterback, he would have started or played a lot more

in one of those games. So I think we have a pretty good idea that, I mean, Teddy's clearly a quarterback. Probably just the best backup quarterback in the league would be, you know, a mediocre starter. but great guy, love the guy, and he's worth them paying $7 million. But he was worth them paying $7 million because they did not believe that Taysam Hill could play quarterback. Now, you could counter me and be like, well, John, he's so important to all the other stuff they do,

you couldn't just stick him at quarterback. Well, I'd say, yeah, but clearly that other stuff is a huge value of his, and I don't think that's going to change. Because if the quarterback is the most valuable position. So if the guy, Utah could be better than Teddy Bridgewater, they would have played him, and they just didn't. but it also shows you that the Saints have a really good problem. One, they got multiple quarterbacks. They can beat any team in the league.

And their starting quarterback went healthy as one of the best quarterbacks in the league history. They got a great backup. And then they got this third stringer guy that also can carry the ball, catch the ball, and block and play special teams. The Saints are absolutely rolling. They just, that was a, you don't even belong on the field with us tonight, Indianapolis. I'm a Jacoby Brissette fan or at least was.

This last month, he just looks like a slow processor. Everything just looks slow. He looks terrible. He doesn't look good. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending. Opinions are flying.

And nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves.

Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlic on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo SlicLife 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

Welcome to my new podcast. Learn the hard way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing,

we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it, and we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about, wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross,

because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines,

as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free, I Heart Radio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Clivert Show,

I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff, like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, A, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue 42.

A rep, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clippers show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what.

He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the player. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense.

And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court licking his fingers while he got the ball. Like, you go through a training camp with that Isaiah, you figure it out. real quick. Oh, yeah. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball.

So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Colts looks slow. But I got faith in Chris Ballard, his mindset, the way he drafts. You know, it's just kind of a weird year for him. And, yeah, just they got their butts kick tonight. Get right to the romance and find the way to wow this Valentine's with 1-800-flower From classic roses and bouquets to decadent chocolate-covered berries, gourmet treats, and more.

Surprise your Valentine with 1-800flowers.com. Right now, get the 18-stem enchanted rose medley for $39.99, or upgrade to 24 red roses for $10 more. Go to 1-800flowers.com slash tune-in. That's 1-800flowers.com slash tune-in. What grows in the forest? Trees? Sure. Know what else grows in the forest?

Our imagination, our sense of wonder, and our family bonds grow too, because when we disconnect from this and connect with this, we reconnect with each other. The forest is closer than you think. Find a forest near you and start exploring at Discovertheforest.org.

Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the Ad Council. Look through your children's eyes to see the true magic of a forest. It's a storybook world for them. You look and see a tree. They see the wrinkled face of a wizard with arms outstretched to the sky. They see treasure and pebbles.

They see a windy path that could lead to adventure. And they see you. Their fearless guide is this fascinating world. Find a forest near you and start exploring at discovertheforest.org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the ad council. Okay, let's dive into a big picture playoff. thought that I've had just watching games this weekend. And I've watched basically every snap Seattle's taken this year and the majority of snaps

the Packers have taken this year. And it got me thinking that, you know, they're both 11-3. And they've had remarkable seasons. Like Bill Parcells, you are who your record are. Says you are. And when you're 11 and 3, you're a big-time NFL football team. I mean, that's, that's an unconstable. awesome record on any given year.

But when I've watched these teams, at zero points, did I ever consider? Like, you know what? This is a big-time number one overall seed. On a typical year, some of the Great Patriot teams number one overall seed, last year that Chiefs team led by the MVP Mahomes number one seed, the Ravens this year, everything they've done with Lamar, look headed to a number one seed. Those years with Pete Carroll, I'm just thinking in the last decade,

in some of those LOB teams, one seed, last year the Saints, one seed, like you think dominant, dominant teams, well-rounded teams. And I see Green Bay in Seattle, and listen, I'm not trying to diminish what they accomplish. I actually think it speaks to the greatness of the quarterbacks. And Seattle, probably a little more of the culture and the toughness,

because Green Bay has a more talented roster than Seattle. But there's a chance, depending on how these last couple weeks play out. And as we see every year in the NFL, you just never freaking know. Weird things happen. These two teams, in some order, could be the one in the two-seat.

And I just take a step back, and I think that's nuts. Because typically the best team has the home field buys. And I don't know necessarily if these are the two best teams. Because I think that if Minnesota was fully healthy, the entire season, Thielen, Dalvin Cook, who's banged up right now, hopefully he plays this weekend. But especially Thielen, how good that offense was with Thielen,

Diggs and the running back. It was dominant. And San Francisco, when they were fully healthy, I thought they were the best team in the league, beside the Ravens. And when they played Seattle, they were missing George Kittle, and they lost that game obviously in overtime.

And the game they lost against the Atlanta Falcons, missing four defensive starters. But I'm not, I understand the NFL doesn't, I'm not making excuses. Like, you are who your record is. And if Seattle, who controls their own destiny now with the home field game against the Niners Week 17, same thing with Green Bay.

They win these next two games. There's a pretty decent chance they might be the one or two seed, but definitely going to win the division. It shows you you don't have to be the best teams. And when you look at point differential, because point differential to me in the NFL, it's not necessarily indicative. Like the Raiders forever had this terrible point differential

and had a winning season. And the 49ers have had a point differential that's much closer to like the Ravens or the, or the Patriots, and there's a chance they could, I mean, as crazy as it sounds, they could end up to succeed. Right now, Seattle's point differential is 26, plus 26, yet they're 11 and 3. The Niners is like 160. When you look at Green Bay, there's just like 45.

For example, the Ravens, who have one more win, is over 200. So, now, part of it that these guys are playing in tight games, and they're winning a lot of them, which is really impressive. but it's hard for me to get entrenched out of my mind Green Bay coming to Levi Stadium on that Sunday night game and getting the piss beaten out of them. Now Seattle, I have a little more faith just because the coach and quarterback have been there,

but I don't think there's ever been a potential one seed that has had less talent on the team. Pete Carroll, Borderline Hall of Fame coach. If you put him in the Hall of Fame, I wouldn't argue. Russell Wilson, in my opinion, one of the truly great players I've ever watched in the NFL. But other than that,

I mean, who's their best player on offense? Chris Carson, like him. Fumbles a lot. D.K. Metcalf? Rookie only can really run a couple routes. Tyler Lockett, again, really like small, Ben-bangged up. Defense, Bobby Wagner, by far,

but he just got hurt. Hopefully he's okay. Clowny's injured. You had like two good games all season. Now they traded for Diggs who's been really good, but they got him mid-season. This is not the Seattle team of like, 2013-2014. They are nowhere near that, but they're going to have a record like one of those teams.

Green Bay, I would say, a little better because they got Rogers. They still have a solid offensive line. Then they got the two Smith guys up front and their D-Bs are really good. So they got players. But they're wide receivers beside and Devante, who's a star. Star might be strong. A really, really good player when he's healthy, a top 6-7 wide receiver in the league. But who else is he throwing to? Because I talked to a buddy. in the league a couple weeks ago that was like, listen, Roger's numbers are basically carbon copy of what they were last year, the year Mike McCarthy didn't even make it until the end of the season.

The difference he thought was just he's making more crucial clutch plays at the end of the game. CC their record. They're winning a lot of tight games, mainly because Rogers is consistently coming through at the end of the game. And listen, what have I really learned about Matt LaFleur? Beside, he's a good-looking skinny guy. I mean, seriously. because the offense, again, very similar to last season, statistically.

Now, where I will give him credit is Rogers feels happy. And Rogers is the franchise. And the last couple years with McCarthy, you can say whatever you want, he can say whatever he wants, Mike can say whatever he wants, they were miserable. It was a divorce that had to happen. And I often believe in divorce or just like in any business breakup, any personal breakup, that is that is unavoidable,

you usually are healthier after you split. It was best for both guys. And if you've seen McCarthy going on this PR tour, he looks happy. He did cry with Pellasaro on that NFL network special, but I'm looking forward to him getting back in the league too. But I'm looking at Green Bay and going, it's not like Matt LaFleur,

someone's calling him some offensive genius, their numbers haven't really changed. If anything, too, Rogers gets to run the two minute, he gets to implement a lot of his own offense, So, I don't know. I guess my main takeaway on these two teams is for teams that are going to go, I mean, one of these two teams is going 13 and 3

and probably the other one's going 12 and 4, and there's a chance they both go 13 and 3. For two teams that potentially could be 13 and 3, I would say in my 35 years of life, in my 20 plus a fall in the NFL really closely, if you go 13 and 3, you usually have pro bowlers everywhere and are a stack squad.

Now, I would say Green Bay would be closer than that in Seattle, but Seattle's nowhere near that. So it does speak to when you have, and we argue this all the time, like the importance of quarterbacks, well, these two guys are headed straight to the Hall of Fame. And without these two guys, if you just put just a random Joe Blow quarterback on this team, I'm just trying to think of just a random guy. Let's go with, let's just go with like Kyle Allen or Josh Allen. These teams win like three or four games. So it speaks to the

The dominance of these two players And I think they both got combined You know like $180 million last year They deserved every penny And I truly believe they're both underpaid Okay let's dive into a topic that You know we've hit on many times on the show And I really do think it carries over to any business

Any walk of life You are only a little as the guy that owns your company. You know, and in football, the head coach, the quarterback are really important. Just like, you know, in some of these big Fortune 500 companies, the quote-unquote CEO or even like what Phil Knight became in his latter years, I know he's still alive. You can't run every branch, every decision, but you do set the tone for the company. Forever it was Steve Jobs, now it's Tim Cook. You know, when you're in these massive, massive companies, you are, you are.

still dependent on the person in that individual building that's in charge clearly. Like in football, the owner is not calling the plays. For the most part, unless you're Jerry Jones, the owner is not picking the players. But they do dictate overall the success of your franchise. I've worked for one NFL team. It's consistently one of the top three or four organizations in all of football, the Philadelphia Eagles. It starts with Jeffrey Lurie. He's pretty buttoned up.

He knows what the hell he's doing. There's a reason the Eagles, for the last 20 plus years of his ownership, have been pretty high level. One, he hired a really good coach and Andy Reid. Then he made a mistake with Chip Kelly, pivoted quickly to Doug Peterson. But it's not necessarily about the hires. It's more about the culture in the building, his innovative thinking, his just big picture thought process,

his ability to hire the right people and put him in the right position to succeed. And I think when you look around the NFL, there's a reason why the shitty teams are shitty. I mean, it's pretty simple. I saw something on Sunday that you'll never see again. I mean, the Raiders are leaving, and they've moved three years ago. But unlike the Rams and the Chargers, the year they moved, they just left, doesn't work that way for Mark Davis because the Davis family doesn't have any money. So they were stuck here forever.

And it's been a disaster. Let me repeat. An absolute disaster. And they lose to the Jaguars. Of course they do. Because in the 25 years since the Raiders moved back to Northern California, only the Cleveland Browns have lost more. We'll get into them in a second.

But I think when you look at the Raiders' failures, it has Mark Davis written all over it. He hires Jack Del Rio, and they actually have a decent season. And then he's in love with John Gruden because he believes he's Vince Lombardi, gives him $100 million. John Gruden, they drafted number four overall last year. Their 6 and 8 look like they're headed for 6 and 10. They're going to suck again.

They get rid of all their good players. They spent a year before Mayock showed up with a lame duck Reggie McKenzie GM. It really made no sense. The Raiders are just a disaster in a start at the top. As long as Mark Davis owns the team. They may have more revenue streams in Las Vegas, but they won't be any different as a franchise. But the reality is in the NFL, whether you're poor,

relative to NFL standards like Mark Davis, or really rich like Jimmy Haslam and Dan Snyder. If you're bad, you're bad. And when you look at the Redskins, they have been a disaster ever since the guy owns the team. He can't hire the right coach. Whenever he does hire a decent coach like the Shanahan's, he medals at the highest of degrees.

Remember the year he forced them to sign or, excuse me, draft, and basically give up, you know, a ton of picks to get RG3, something his head coach doesn't want to do. Now, I loved RG3 coming out of Baylor. I know with the Eagles, Coach Reed loved him. We all loved him.

He was really, really talented. But if you hire Mike Shanahan, and you give Mike Shanahan all this money, and he goes, you know what, Mr. Snyder, I don't want this guy. If you're Dan Snyder, you have to listen to him. What is the point of hiring him? Of course, snowballs, the disaster happens,

the cousin debacle, and they're still in a position where they suck all these years later. You know why? Because as long as the guy owns the team. And we've talked about Dan Snyder before, if you Google his life resume, it's eye-opening. The guy was a multimillionaire by his late 20s, by his early 30s, he was worth like a bill. Incredible business story. He has been one of the worst owners in the history of the league over his 20-year run. Like a joke in one of the truly great markets, economically and just fan-wise in terms of quantity and the passion, and he just consistently

sucks. And then you get a new owner like Jimmy Haslam, who'd been, you know, a minority owner before, finally gets a shot when the Browns came up for sale. And what have the Browns become since he took over? Nothing's changed. The guy doesn't know anything. He hires and fires left and right and never stops. What is the point of hiring someone if you're not going to let them do their job. But the reason they're in this situation they are now is because he hired John Dorsey, a guy that couldn't figure it out in Kansas City when ever since he's been gone and it was working when he was there, John, what the hell happened there, John? Can't manage people, can't manage a salary cap, your ego's too big, you're a little bit of a control freak. So of course, Jimmy Haslam

hires him. And because of the Sashi Brown debacle, and that's exactly what it was, you can be like, he loaded up on all these picks. Anyone can trade back down and acquire picks. He passed on Carson Went. He passed on Deshawn Watson. He kept passing on good players. So I'm tired of hearing like Sashi Brown was ever going to turn them around. He had proven that he can't evaluate talent.

Now, John Dorsey has proven that he can, but he staked his career on Baker Mayfield. So when you draft a guy number one overall, all the chips in your entire franchise, especially when it's a quarterback, are in the middle of the table on that player. They had the biggest decision in recent memory. They needed a coach. They had a number one overall quarterback. They had Jarvis Landry. They traded for, they were going to trade for O'Dell Beckham. It was clearly on their mind. I know they traded for Beckham after Freddie was already named the coach, but clearly the wheels and the thought process were already in motion for John Dorsey. You would think you would go after, you know, a big swing and you know what, right? A legitimate

coach, whether that was, hell, Mike McCarthy had just been fired by the green. Bay Packers. Like, they had worked together in Green Bay before. He needed a guy that knew what he was doing. I don't know, an adult in the room, someone who had, at minimum, been a coordinator before, because you can Google it, Freddy Kitchens had never been a coordinator until Hugh Jackson and Todd Haley got fired last year. So what does he do?

He hires Freddy Kitchens. What has happened? More losing. Of course, they're losing. I like Baker Mayfield a lot coming out of Oklahoma. I don't really like him now. and I used to disagree with Colin Coward. I'm like Colin, he's a better player than you're giving him credit for,

and I don't think the maturity is that big of a deal. Colin was dead on. I mean, it's been his best take probably ever. Has he ever nailed a stronger take that legitimately the majority of people, even like Colin's biggest fans, I think I'd have disagreed. He was dead on! Well, I don't think he would have been dead on if he would have got a McCarthy, he just would have got a real coach around him.

Maybe this wouldn't have. Now maybe it would have. Maybe I overvalued the talent. Small, bad athlete, immature, usually a bad combination. I thought his accuracy... Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying,

and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories,

their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer-beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsClyce

brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsClyce on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Keer Games.

And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough because people scoreboard watch.

Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust.

I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast. Learn the hard way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the hard way and listen now.

What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her.

What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. A rep. My mama want you to wave at her. What? Where's he at? Hey, Miss Parker.

Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed.

And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen. before. And he knows. Without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense.

And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nass would get that thing. That man, heck, heck. get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers why he got the ball. Like, after you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So you could overcome all that. It hasn't. Because this morning I'm at the gym, I'm like, you know what? Everyone was tweeting about Kyler and Baker. I'm going to flip that thing on.

If you just watch that game on mute, and I did at the gym, Muted, the condensed version on NFL game pass, and I knew nothing about football. And you just said you can pick one of these two quarterbacks at the end of the year to have on your team. You wouldn't even hesitate. It wouldn't even be a conversation. You would take Kyler Murray. Now, Kyler Murray's got a stronger arm. He's obviously more athletic.

So if you watch a certain game, he's going to look more explosive. But I just don't think Baker Mayfield looks good at all. Overthrowing balls, not accurate. He's obviously a bad athlete, and he thinks he can run around. It's a disaster. And then you have the story from Mike Silver about the players screaming across the field to the Arizona Cardinals, come get me.

It'd be one thing right when Odell told the Niners to come get them, or if you're telling Bill Belichick to come get you, the Arizona Cardinals are in the last place in the NFC West. Are they going to win five games this year? You're telling them to come get me? But again, what does it all get back to? The Raiders always lose and are always a laughing stock. Cleveland Browns always lose, always a laughing stock.

The Washington Redskins always. Always lose, always a laughing stock. What is the consistent, you know, the one thing that remains true in the organization. Everything changes. Coaches, players, different employees, the owners don't change. And Snyder's been there for a long time now. The Davis family's been here for a long time now. And Jimmy Haslam, while he's had a short period of time, he's kind of established himself as just your typical clown owner.

And these franchises are a disaster. And as long as these guys own the team, I just can't see it changing. If you love to be remembered as the person who gives the best birthday gifts, I'm here to tell you that 1800 Flowers.com is your ultimate birthday gifting destination. 1,800 Flowers has thoughtful and artfully created options that are guaranteed to deliver the best birthday surprise. Shop thousands of unique gifts at 1,800flowers.com for exclusive offers and great values. To order today, visit 1-800flowers.com

slash tune-in. That's 1-800flowers.com slash tune-in. If I could be you and you could be me for just one hour. If you could find a way to get inside. Each other's mind. Walk a mile in my shoes.

Walk a mile in my shoes. Walk a mile in my shoes. We've all felt left out. And for some, that feeling lasts more than a moment. We can change that. Learn how if belonging begins with us brought to you by the ad council walk a mile in my shoes

look through your children's eyes to see the true magic of a forest it's a storybook world for them you look and see a tree they see the wrinkled face of a wizard with arms outstretched to the sky they see treasure and pebbles they see a windy path

that could lead to adventure and they see you their fearless guide through this fascinating world find a forest near you Start Exploring at Discovertheforest.org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the ad council. Okay, let's dive into the NFC East, and one of the teams, the Eagles or the Cowboys,

are going to host a playoff game. Now, I know me personally, the NFC East, when it's bad, I get a little tired of watching Eli, watching the Redskins, watching the Bad Cowboys team. It's just like, come on, guys. But, trust me, I, and I, I think most of you understand, or at least can comprehend, that this division is the most important economic division in the football.

Football pays their bills, the majority of their cash, and their revenue stream are through television. Cowboys are the biggest brand. They do the highest television ratings. Eagles and the Giants, massive brands. Trust me, the league would love for the Redskins to be good, because they're also a huge brand and have a huge fan base. But sometimes when they're bad, it gets shoved down our throat.

And listen, I still know how. and root for Doug and have buddies on that scouting staff. But if the Eagles are bad, I'd rather watch another team. But one thing, at least, where I live with the Niners, that now might be the fifth seed, there's a lot of this kind of just thought process because the Niners are better, if healthy, than either one of these teams. But that's not always the way the playoffs work.

One winning road playoff games is really, really difficult. And I've talked before, I think they should change the rule if you're not 500 or if a team has a better record than you. You shouldn't just automatically host the division. But who cares? That's just my opinion. That shit ain't changing. The Cowboys or the Eagles, whoever wins this Sunday, are going to host a playoff game come that first week of January.

And more than likely it's going to be the Niners or the Seattle Seahawks are going to have to go and play one of these two teams. I think my voice just cracked. But I do think you saw these two teams. and I watched the Cowboy game back this morning because I didn't get to see it live. And the Cowboys beat the living crap out of the ramps. The game was over at halftime. Early in the third quarter, it was 31-7.

And what we've been saying about the Cowboys, I think, and all the Cowboys fans know this, what's so frustrating about this season, it's like this team really is talented. Star wide receiver, a couple solid wide receivers, star running back, good offensive line, solid quarterback, good defensive players. And the coaching staff has been terrible.

and Jerry talking every other day probably doesn't help. But I do think if you're Jerry, or just a cowboy fan, you watch that first half and you're just, I can't relate to this, but you're pulling your hair out. Like, where is this been? Look how good we are. And I understand the Rams aren't exactly the 2018 Rams, but they were 8 and 5 coming off a couple big wins

and getting their mojo back. Do have Sean McVeigh, do have a bunch of good players. And the Cowboys housed them. I mean, destroyed them. I think Amari Cooper only had one catch. Imagine if he was humming. Could have been like 16 to nothing. It was a blowout.

I think the final score was like 44-21. But trust me, the final score is not indicative of what I witnessed. And then the Eagles, unlike the Cowboys, the Eagles are missing a ton of players, right? Al-Shan's gone, Deshawn's gone, Lane Johnson hurt, like they got running backs hurt. They got injuries everywhere. But the difference between the Eagles,

And I think we see these three young quarterbacks, and I kind of keep them in the same little bubble. And that would be Carson Wentz, Jared Goff, and Dak Prescott. Carson Wentz and Jared Goff got an enormous amount of money. And I came up with a philosophy, and I'm going to use this moving forward. I'm not paying premium prices for non-elite players. I will not do it. It's my problem with doing it with Jared Goff.

It would be my problem with giving Dak Prescott $35 million. Listen, Carson Wentz has not proven anything, but you don't need to be Jimmy Johnson or Bill Walsh to watch Carson Wentz in that Redskins game playing with Greg Ward Jr., which I swear to God, I didn't know, I kept thinking like, why does this name sound familiar? Who is this guy? I've spent all fall watching college football 12 hours a day for 15 straight weeks. I'm like, what? I don't remember this guy.

He was the Houston quarterback two years. years ago. That's who was basically his go-to wide receiver. Now he still's got Ertz and Goddard. And Carson Wentz, you see the talent. It is immense. Now, will he ever live up to that talent? I don't know. But his physical god-given gifts are in a different planet than Dak and definitely Jared Goff. So you see this guy that, again, I think all these Niners fans, and I would say Seattle fans, if they get in that predicament where they lose that game to the Niners and have to play this game, the NFC West team is going to be favored in that game. And I'm just going to say, not so fast, as Lee Corso would say on game day.

Let's just pump the brakes a little bit. I'm not saying those teams won't win, but I do think it's going to be a little more difficult. And the Cowboys, who are favored in this week against the Eagles, partly just because they have way better players, should win this game. I do think they're going to be a tough out. Now, their coach, major question mark. I think a lot of Cowboy fans would like him to lose that game, so Jerry would finally

fire Jason Garrett and then go higher higher urban. The Eagles, if they do have this upset on Sunday, you would still say, well, they're still missing a ton of players, but the one thing I'll go back to, Philly is bananas. Like that would be a legitimate playoff home field advantage.

We saw it a couple years ago when Atlanta came and then Minnesota came and Doug Peterson and Nick Foles the Atlanta game actually was close. Minnesota game was not and that place went bananas. Place would be just going nuts. and at the end of the day

whether they, well, Russell Wilson's better than Wence, but on a given day, Wence can match him and he definitely can match or outplay Jimmy Garoppolo. I don't think this division for as much as I keep saying, like, should they even make the playoffs or whatever,

I do think it's going to be a little more difficult than people realize. Okay, I know Jim Kramer on Mad Money does buyer sell, where he goes, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, sell, sell, sell, sell, sell. I was like, I can't just rip that bit. So let's just do trending up and trending down. We're just going to go through the AFC playoff picture.

One through seven. I'm going to include the Titans who are seventh right now. Steelers are six. I think those two teams are going to fight to get that last spot. And we'll just trending up, trending down, and then I'll hit on each team. Number one, Ravens, trending sky high. You know, headed to the moon. They've had the best season start to finish.

I mean, they did start two and two. and the one sleeper thing we'll get into with Kansas City is Kansas City did beat him. Now it was early in the season, but they made Lamar a little one-dimensional. But since then, Lamar's kicked ass, taking names. Nobody cares, work harder. I know Coward on Instagram was wearing the shirt today.

And, you know, the narrative about him winning the MVP, which I'm okay with. I would probably still lean Russell Wilson, but if you give the award to Lamar Jackson, I'm not going to complain. He has shut a lot of people up. He's done it in a mature, classy way. He's been everything that Baker Mayfield was supposed to be.

Remember when all the analytic people were like, Baker Mayfield, he's a top five quarterback? No, actually, he's like a bottom 20 right now. You know, does he even cracking the top 20? Lamar Jackson has kicked the crap out of that division. John Harbaugh, muscle flex, back-to-back, AFC North champs, Wink Martindale in the defense, despite letting guys walk like they always do, they haven't skipped a beat.

Signing Mark Ingram has been big. That stadium at night, who's going to want to play there in January with those lights? They're going to be really freaking tough to beat. The paths. Listen, I think they're trending down. People keep asking me, do you think Brady's washed? Do you think Brady's washed? I actually think Brady looks the same.

He just looks normal. He's got two things going against them. One, his offensive line is struggling to block, and they can't really run the ball. And two, their passing game, like, Gronk's gone. Julian Edelman's hurt. You know, Nikiel Harry probably doesn't really know that much of the offense. They're depending on Jacobi Myers.

Mohammed's Anu's been banged up and hasn't been that good. Just a weird past team. I've been saying it now for weeks, and I'm a borderline Pat Stan. I never even knew what Stan was until I asked someone like a month ago, and they said it's that M&M song. I was like, why is everyone saying this on Twitter? And then I'm like, oh, okay, I get it. The guy that's crazy.

And then follow the guy to the death. Listen, I'll be as big of a Pats Homer that wasn't from Boston as you'll ever meet. But this team's not as good. Something is way off. And I get they took over in that Bangle game, but Brady couldn't crack 150 yards passing. It took multiple picks. One was a pick six by what might be the defensive player of the year. Their defense is really good.

So I'm not saying like the paths are just some shoeing to be bounced, be a one and done team. And it's not going to be easy to win in Foxborough. But even diehard pass fans would be the first. to admit, this is their most flawed team of the decade, of all the teams that had a legit chance to win the Super Bowl. Probably since that team, I actually think they're worse, that team that lost to Denver, would that have been January of 2016, when Vaughn Miller and DeMarcus Ware just worked their

offensive line? And I think Grok was banged up then, but this team's worse than that team. And, you know, some of these teams in the playoffs have already beat them. The Chiefs, I think they're clearly trending. up. And the number one thing that stands out to me, I saw Albert Brewer wrote this in his MMQB piece this morning. Four straight games with under 20 points allowed. Steve Spagnola and that defense is really coming on. You can't watch the Chiefs play without Honey Badger making a play. I love freaking the Honey Badger. He's like one of my favorite players in the league.

Character reject out of college who's gone on to be a team captain for three teams. And he's just, I mean, they love him in Kansas City. How could you not? High character, smart, badass winner. the more he's around your guys, he'll start to, you know, inject just what he brings to the table. Then their front four is playing a lot better. Frank Clark, Chris Jones. We know how potent their offense can be. Coach Reed is one of the best play callers in modern football. Mahomes is as talented as you'll get.

Tyreeks a freak. Kelsey's a baller. Their offensive line will be good. You know, I think this could be Kansas City's year. Now, I'm a little biased, but I, I, I really do think that. And they've flown under the radar a little bit. They had that rough stretch where Mahomes got hurt

and they lost the game with Moore and then they lost the Titans with Mahomes. But man, I think they're good. The Texans, I would just put them at neutral because every time you're like, they're trending down. Then they'll beat the Patriots by, I know the score was tight, but the game felt like they blew them out.

And then you're like, oh, they suck because they get blown out by Drew Locke. And then they come back, you're like, I'd take the Titans. And then they kick the Titans ass. And again, I know that score was tight. the game was actually, they were in much more control. I mean, the Titans got whooped.

Took a couple red zone turnovers from DeShon Watson. So I would just put the Texans as neutral and just a team that I would just try to avoid because when they are on, they can just be really, really potent on offense. Watson, Hopkins, Fuller, Stills, defense a little hit or miss, but Romeo's a really good coach. So that's just, they're the wild card in this whole thing. then the bills clearly trending up they have a fatal flaw their offense is just isn't very good you know josh allen's not very accurate though i find myself rooting for him you know i i really do

i want josh allen to succeed and he's a great guy he just got a fatal flaw last night a blown call changed a game this morning the internet lost its mind highlights are trending opinions are flying and nobody's telling you exactly what happened that's where sports slice comes in i'm timbo Every episode we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real.

From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live there. them. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests.

I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough because people scoreboard watch life becomes about wins and losses

Steve Burns, Dustin Ross because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth or are you a good person because you're afraid because that's two different intentions bro absolutely and that's two different levels of trust I want you to just really be a good person Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway.

Open your free iHeartRadio app, search Learn the Hardway, and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff, like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to. wave at her. What? Come on. Quarterback on office blue of 42.

Hey, Rhett, Mom, I want you to wave at her. What? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clippers show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defying the odds.

Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quirley,

Whitney Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers why he got the ball. Like, after you go through a training camp with that, I said, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And that's just accuracy.

But their defense is top notch. Sean McDermott took a team that didn't make the playoffs since 2000, and now he's going for the second time in three years. A franchise that was, like I talked about earlier, in the same vein as the Raiders, as the Browns, as the Redskins. And now they're not in that vein anymore. Now they're in the vein of a big boy franchise,

of a winning franchise. Of a team that actually looks like, if Josh can take a step accuracy-wise, why couldn't they be a consistent playoff team for the next? decade. I mean, they got a big-time head coach. Look at Carolina since Sean McDermott's left. You know, I know we love talking about, you know, when Cam Newton was healthy, well, do you notice the trend when Sean McDermott left? Things changed a little bit then. You got to tip your hat to the Bills. Big Sean McDermott fan. You never sleep on a skinny bald guy on a mission with a big-time defense. The Bills, that bills, you know, it's a lock to be that, you know, afternoon ESPN playoff game, Houston against the Bills.

Sign me up for that. And then we got the Steelers. You got to go training down because, as you saw with Duck Hodges, the better teams they play, it's going to be hard for them to score points. But whether they make the playoffs or not, it's been an incredible, impressive season from the organization. I thought they were crazy. I think most people thought they were crazy when they traded a first round pick from Mika Fitzpatrick. Well, he's been one of the best players in the league all season.

Their defense has been fantastic. Their receivers look pretty good. Their offense looks pretty good, except their quarterback. Now, I think the big question marks, what are they going to do this offseason with quarterbacks? They drafted Mason Rudolph two years ago in the third round. He got benched for a guy named Duck. So his career is, sorry, Mason, you're done in Pittsburgh.

Duck Hodges clearly not good enough to be your starter. Raffisberger would be 38. He looks about 370 pounds right now with that Brett Kiesel beard. There's a chance he's never the same. Now the problem is they're not going to have a first round pick because they gave it to Miami. Would they be in the, you know, Andy Dalton, maybe if Derek Carr gets cut, someone like that,

I think that would behoove them to make a move like that. Then the Tennessee Titans. I would say also trending, just not trending down. I know they lost, but they have still had a really good season, and they had been one of the hottest teams in the league. I wouldn't say they're trending up because the Texas just kind of kill them at in Nashville. I would say they're just neutral. And if all things were equal,

I would say that they would be more dangerous if they made the playoffs than the Steelers. just because Ryan Tammie Hill is a far superior player than Duck Hodges. And the other thing with Tennessee is like they got something in A.J. Brown. That guy can play. Derek Henry, baller. Vrable, sweet mustache, also a solid coach. Like, Tennessee is going to be a good team. I would imagine they franchise Ryan Tannhill at the end of the year.

They still play the Texans in week 17. I think they play, I think they play the Saints this week. So that'll be tough. but the change's are coming off a short week. So I would say that my teams that are trending neutral would both be the Houston Texans and the Tennessee Titans and Pats would be the only team trending down. The Ravens, the Chiefs, the Bills are all playing pretty well.

And we're live here outside the Perez family home just waiting for the... And there they go. Almost on time this morning. Mom is coming out the front door strong with a double-armed kid carry. Looks like dad has the bags. daughter is bringing up the rear. Oh, but the diaper bag wasn't closed. Diapers and toys are everywhere. Ooh, but mom has just nailed the perfect car seat buckle for the toddler. And now the

eldest daughter, who looks to be about nine or ten, has secured herself in the booster seat. Dad zips the bag closed and they're off. Ah, but looks like mom doesn't realize her coffee cup is still on the roof of the car, and there it goes. Oh, that's a shame. that mug was a fam favorite. Don't sweat the small stuff. Just nail the big stuff. Like making sure your kids are buckled correctly in the right seat for their age and size.

Learn more at NHTSA.gov slash the right seat. Visit NHTSA.gov. Slash the right seat. Brought to you by Nidza and the Ad Council. Adoption of teens from foster care is a topic not enough people know about and we're here to change that. I'm April Dinwiddy host of the new podcast

Navigating Adoption presented by Adopt U.S. Kids. Each episode brings you, compelling real-life adoption stories told by the families that live them with commentary from experts. Visit adoptuskids.org slash podcast or subscribe to navigating adoption presented by Adopt U.S. Kids. Brought to you by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services Administration for Children and Families and the Act Council. What grows in the forest? Trees? Sure.

Know what else grows in the forest? Our imagination. Our sense of wonder. And our family bonds grow too. because when we disconnect from this and connect with this, we reconnect with each other. The forest is closer than you think. Find a forest near you and start exploring at Discovertheforest.org.

Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the Ad Council. Okay, let's go with some weekend thoughts. A lot happened. Starting with, let's start with Saturday night and Joe Burrow. If you haven't got a chance to watch a speech, Just Google it. It would go to YouTube. I heard that website called YouTube, Y-O-U-U-Tube,

puts videos on there. You can search. I think it's the most, second biggest search engine beside Google, and you can probably watch it. Type in Joe Burrell-Hisman speech. It was powerful. There really is no way around it. Like, if you just have any compassion or emotion in your body,

you kind of feel it when he was talking. And two things really jumped out. he spoke about, I saw a bunch of people tweeting about this, he spoke about the poverty where he came from. I don't really, I have to ask some of my scouting buddies what this guy's background. I didn't know he came from a poor area. Maybe he didn't grow up poor, but he was around it. But I guess that they've raised like $100,000 since he kind of gave his speech.

So, you know, whenever you have a platform, you know, the one thing about politicians, they talk a big game about helping the poor, but it's not really their go-to move. So it's cool that Joe Burrow, and I wasn't even trying to get political there, it's just a fact. People don't really help the poor. They just talk about it a lot.

And Joe Burrow, he also thanked Eddie Ogeron, and that was really, really powerful. And he just talked about how the guy gave him a shot. And I've been kind of making fun of LSU every time they tweet, you know, like, this guy had no one that believed in him. I'm like, bro, you went to Ohio State and then he transferred LSU,

but I was reading more about it. I guess he wasn't that big of a recruit. You know, he wasn't your typical Ohio State football recruit as a quarterback, but still, he did go to Ohio State out of high school. So I'm not going to act like he was just, you know, Johnny Tryhardt that overcame some walk-on spots. But at Ogeron did give him the keys of the car and to run the LSU program.

We're starting quarterback in the SEC for one of the most talented programs in the country. And clearly the guy put in a lot of offseason work, them hiring Joe Brady from the New Orleans Saints, the combination. They beat the crap out of everyone this year. And they've been definitely the most fun team to watch them in Ohio State. Jared Goff, his biggest problem is just not mobile. Like, he can't move at all. I mean at all. And Kevin Clark of the Ringer had just a fantastic tweet.

that basically said, I don't have it in front of me, but I know the gist of it, that said, you know what's really fun is next year when Jared Goff's cap number jumps from $10 to $36 million. Jared Goff's cap number is $36 million. Again, I'm a Jared Goff fan. I understand the quarterback market, but he wasn't a free agent.

He still had multiple years on his contract. You know, the quarterback market's going up and up and up. I get it. for Drew Breeze and Russell Wilson. I don't get it, man. $36 million. He's just not that good of a player. And again, I'm a fan.

The Pat's camera situation. One thing men do, and I can just speak for men, I think women can be a little bit better liars, but I guess I can lie well too. But when we are caught red-handed, I would say guys are terrible when we're caught red-handed. We usually say the dumbest things, things imaginable.

And the video that Jay Glazer talked about on the Fox pregame show and played the video of the guy being caught red-handed and just pretending like, no, bro, I'll just delete the film. And the Cincinnati police officer security guy was like, no, man, that's not the way this works. There's no deleting the film. Give me the film. Like, you were caught. He's like, no, man, it was just nothing. I was just like playing around.

Like, you know, I'll just delete it. Don't even have a computer here. I don't know if Belichick was involved I don't know you know you can never discount anything with the Patriots but if you have any common sense or have been around the block just one time in your life that guy's guilty as jars you know that that guy was doing something shady and he was nailed bad loss by the 49ers

I understand they were missing a lot of guys you know multiple starters on defense and the Falcons are just one of those weird bad teams They got an MVP, a former MVP on their team. They got Julio Jones, one of the best wide receivers ever on their team. And Julio kicked their ass. And they had no answer for Matt Ryan at the end of the game, just like the pick of the stick years ago when Navarro Bowman picked them off.

They were driving right down the field. Navarro Bowman picked that ball off, and as Mike Toriko said, as he jumped in the end zone, the 49ers are going to the playoffs. Well, the 49ers are going to the playoffs because the Rams lost, but they didn't want to go to the playoffs this way. Now, at the end of the day, this game doesn't necessarily determine their seating because it's all more than likely going to come down to Week 17 at Seattle. But that was not an ideal loss.

Though, sitting on my couch watching the game, I'm like, this game's boring. And part of the reason it was boring is because we were just coming off the Saints 49er game. It's like, you know, the highest of highs to... And if I felt like that, imagine the players felt like that, the crowd felt like that. You could just feel it. You could feel it through the television. and they deserve to lose because they didn't play that well. Urban Meyer, you know, does any guy, let me say this,

I think he is easily one of the best coaches I've ever seen collegiately. You could argue he's hand in hand right there right with Nick. But he left Florida after one of his players were murdering people, cheating scandals left and right, players getting in trouble, and he had an illness. So then he bounces and then a year later he's at the Ohio State. And then on Ohio State, toward the end, did he really retire? Or did they just kind of say the Zach Smith issue? And he was sick.

But he's one of those classic, I'm sick, need to spend more time with my family. Now he's thinking about going to the NFL. So, like, I always need to spend more time with my family. Isn't that what Greg Shiano said when he left New England Patriots like three months ago? And now he's the head coach at Ruckers? Did you really want to spend time with your family? Or did you just not want to work for New England? But when Ruckers called and offered you 25 million, you're like, actually, I'm cool.

with my family now. See you guys later. I thought you were really sick, Urban, or you're just going to coach in the NFL? Now, is he trying to play Jerry Jones, go to the Redskins game, sit with Dan Snyder? He does have several former players on the Redskins, so it's not out of the realm of possibility. I know, I think McLaren's last name, the really good rookie receiver, said he wanted him to come. Obviously, Dwayne Haskins, I'm sure, wanted him to come. But it was pretty clear online that it was like he's trying to make a leverage play to get Jerry Jones to offer more money. I don't know.

I think Irmaier's a fantastic coach. You know, the character, the faking, you know, some of the stuff that's happened, some of the red flags on his resume are undisputable. That they exist. But if Jerry Jones can land him, that would be he's a way better. He's forgotten more as a coach than Jason Garrett's known. That's not even debatable. If he was the Cowboys head coach, they would win.

And the good thing is in the NFL, we don't judge. We don't do morals in the NFL. But in college, which with Urban loves talking about it, like Urban, do you really like morals? Because your entire team at Florida was on the payroll and getting in trouble. And then you went to Ohio State. Wow, you did clean it up a little bit. You did have an issue with that assistant coach.

So, you know, you got a resume that's a little sketchy. You are a fantastic coach. You actually might be more suited for the NFL because we don't do morals. My only issue with Urban Meyer is he never stops talking about leadership and character, and then you check the resume in Ohio State, and you check the resume at Florida, you're like it doesn't really add up. You know it's Belichick? I don't ever crush him for his morals. Mainly, we don't

care. We're just black and white league. You just win, loose. That's it. In college, it's about, you know, growing young men. Well, there's a lot of gray area in college. Yet Urban just tries that. I'm a great guy. Aaron Hernandez, blasts people on your watch, buddy. Eli Manning's

500 again. And, uh, yeah. I don't really have a take other than good for Eli. He got back to 500. Mr. Busky, I guess, said some things after the game. How he wished Matt Nagy would get him on the move a little bit more. It's like Mitch, I don't even know if he was trying to like, you know, be, put the onus on Nagy at all. But just Mitch, just keep your mouth shut, bro.

You've been horrendous all season except like two games against bad opponents. Let's just be quiet. Let's just play the year out these last couple games and send Ryan Pace a Christmas card within the card say, please pick up my fifth year option. And if they pick up their fifth year option, Ryan Pace is nuts.

Ryan Pace, he needs to put down the drugs and the alcohol if he picks up Mr. Miskie's option. Because it's clear he's not a fifth-year option quarterback that's worth picking up. James Winston. What a bizarre season. I mean, he's got 50 picks. He's got 50 touchdowns.

He's got 10,000 yards. Somehow Bruce Ariens took this bad Buccaneers team, and they're 7 and 7. It wasn't that long ago they were 2 and 6, then they were 3 and 7. Now they're 7 and 7. But what do they do with James? I think legitimately he has 27 touchdowns and 23 picks. But every time you look up, he's got four touchdowns. Now, I think he's thrown five first drive interceptions.

That's got to be a single season record. five first drive interceptions. The Buccaneers are four and one in those games. James Wences is going to be a free agent. What do they do? I was thinking about it today. I was like, what number would I offer them? Because I've listened to different people talk about it.

I would not do a long-term deal. I would just franchise them? I think what I'd do, if I was Ariens, and assuming he likes them, which I think he does, I'd offer him like a three-year deal, $60 million. And I guarantee like 90% of it, give you $50, $55 million. So way less than like Jimmy Garoppel and Carr got,

and obviously way less per year, but that's a lot of money. Would James accept that deal? And I would be putting deals like that on the table right now. Now, I was thinking about it also today. The wild card would be, I could see John Gruden giving James Winston a lot of money. You know, because he's aggressive, he's kind of a gunslinger.

I could see the Raiders being kind of the team that would come in on James. So I don't know if James would sign that deal. So that's the great part about the NFL that says in the NBA, you just franchise them. But I think it's pretty clear that James Winston, despite having multiple games this year of like four and five interceptions, that about mid-season, when they were three and 70, he's throwing picks left and right. I was like, this guy is done. But it's a great part about sports.

Just when you think you're done, the guy's back alive again. And James and now we're talking about how much money they're going to give them. Only in the NFL, man. Okay, let's get to the middle cough bail bag. It's where we talk. and answer your questions. Mailbag. Eagles fan here. Where are you currently on Wents-Dak debate right now?

And gut feeling, who do you think coaches the Cowboys next year? I think it's Urban Meyer, like I said. I would take Wence. Now, I think DAC has played better than Carson this year, but again, like I learned football from Howie, Andy, and just the players that we were bringing in, Philly and that mindset, I lean talent. And Carson is just dramatically more talented than DAC.

And I like Dak. Leadership, Colin talks about all the time, the intangibles off the charts. He's actually pretty good late in games and tight games. It definitely has been before in his career. I have to break down the numbers this year. It feels like they've gotten their ass kicked a little bit, but I'm a DAC fan, just like Jared Goff.

If I had to rank him, I'd go when-stack, Jared Goff. Hey, John, never miss a show. Appreciate it. How much more will the Niner fans hate the Seahawks after Russell Wilson rips their hearts out after week 17 to lock up the NFC West? A first round buying a potential number one seat. It's going to happen. I know it. You know it.

Everyone knows it. Time is yours. Andy Reed voice. Yeah. But see, I don't hate Russell Wilson. I, as someone that's had a front row seat, just I'm an NFC and AFC West guy, I just watch a lot of those two divisions. Always have. but I think Russell Wilson is one of my favorite players ever.

I would say my favorite player ever. You're always a little nostalgic, right, who you grow up on. I was born in 1984 in Northern California. I love Steve Young. And I think Russell's a better version of Steve Young. I've been trying to get Steve Young as an interview forever, but can't nail him down. But I'd love to ask him if he thinks he's better than Russell Wilson.

Now, they're different a little bit. And when I, you know, 84, so by the time I really locked into watching football like 92, 93, Steve was older. You know, you see some of those clips where Steve looked like to Lamar Jackson. He's like a white Lamar Jackson. I don't think, like if Breeze is over underrated historically, I think Steve Young's elite athleticism is one of the most underrated things in NFL history. You know, we often make fun of like little white guy, oh, the Patriots will like him.

Like, would Steve Young have been the ultimate Bill Belichick player? I mean, freak athlete. Freak. And then he learned to be just a really accurate pastor. And the Steve Young I grew up on really looked and played much more like a left-handed Drew Brice. With a little Russell Wilson. But Russell, like, he doesn't run that much. He scrambles behind the line of scrimmage, but it's more to throw.

And, man, he was a stud. I mean, Steve Young, Steve Young and Russell Wilson are two of my favorite players ever. But back to what you said, yeah. I don't have faith. I mean, he owns the Niners. Owns the Niners. It feels like Curry and Clay against the Rockets. Like, it's just onage.

I mean, it's just, as my guy, Mike Kruko would say, it's onage. He's got onage. Giants fan from Connecticut. I think Connecticut is at CT. Is there any way scenario you see them not taking Chase Young? I'd have to look at the draft order. but they won a game with Eli. That's not ideal.

See if I can bring it up as I'm talking. I think the problem for the Giants is going to be, are they going to be drafting in the top three? Because if quarterbacks go, here are right now the draft order. Let's go expanded standings, playoff league. Okay. So as of right now, it would go the Bengals,

the Redskins, and the Giants. Well, that's not good for the Giants. because the Redskins did just draft a quarterback in the first round. So unless the Redskins trade back, which would be on the table, you would think maybe the Dolphins trade up to get a quarterback, maybe the Lions do, maybe the Chargers do. So it's not inconceivable, yeah, I would say they would have to take Chase Young. I mean, honestly, is there another option besides Chase Young for them?

It's kind of crazy they passed on Josh Allen this year. Raiders' worst loss since the Super Bowl? Yeah, I mean, they lost to a four-win Jaguars team that wanted to quit. It's pretty awful. Especially when you factor in last game, you know, at the Coliseum, it's just a devastating loss.

Next question. How does Gruden get the reputation as an offensive guru? Raiders' offense continues to fall flat. Carr regressed, Williams regressed. His Tampa Bay Super Bowl was because of the defense. Any chance he brings us. someone to take over the offense and the play calls? I think the answer is Jay Gruden.

I mean, is Jay Gruden John's offensive coordinator next year? But here's the problem. If John Gruden brings in Jay Gruden next year, what the hell are you paying John Gruden $100 million for? Part of the reason you're paying him $100 million is to call freaking plays. That's the reason Sean Payton makes so much.

That's a reason Andy makes so much. That's why John McVeigh got a big contract extension. That's what music Kyle Shanahan makes a lot of money. Pay these guys to call plays. You know, when you're an offensive head coach, I want you to call plays. Bill O'Brien's calling plays. I want my guy, Bruce Ariens,

technically not calling plays, but it feels like he plays a big role. I want my guy's calling plays. You know? So if he can't call plays, does he give me some money back? Thoughts on Wentz and the Eagles today. I thought Wentz had the best throw of his career today.

Yeah, that pass that went viral to Miles Sanders in the back of the end zone was just a stupid pass. I mean, stupid and a good. good way. On the move to his right, past his own offensive player, two Redskin defenders, and then Miles Sanders in the back of the end zone. It was just a rope. Again, I'm a Wence, I'm a sucker for Carson Wence, the talent, just a freak. Just an absolute freak show. And he's been awesome the last second half of the last two weeks. He was, he made some freaking

place. Terrible outcome for the Raiders, really ugly lost. Question for you about the Jets. Do you feel there are many concerns in the building around Gace and Darnold? Darnold looks patchy and a bit lost at times, similar to what we saw from Tanny Hill and Miami under Gase. Now Tanyhill looks good in Tennessee. Is there questions around Gase working with young quarterbacks? Well, Adam's star really rose, right? It was two things. One was Peyton Manning, loved him. Because the guy was a nut, didn't sleep. Peyton could text him at like one in the morning. about like a coverage and Adam would text two seconds later. So they read like fell in love that way.

They fell in football love. And then he went to Chicago and remember Jay Cutler who had been sucking had a really good season under him. So you're like, damn, Adam Gays can do it. This year's been weird. Like is Adam Gase a bad coach? I don't know. I thought he was a good coach.

But then this year I don't even really know what to say. I think you could counter and say, well, Sam Darnold got mono, week one of the season. They went to that Monday night game with Luke Falk. I'm going to reserve some judgment before I come with a strong take. I got to see one more season. Give them an off season with Joe Douglas, get some players around Darnold, Gase, needs to relax a little bit.

Like, bro, lift your hat a little bit, trim the beard, you're in the NFL, let's just try to win some football games. I know there are a lot of injuries on the defense, but where the hell is the pass rush? D. Ford has been hurt, but he's been in and out all season. Since the Ravens game, which wasn't a pass rush game, the D-line has been subpar. Well, there's only been two games since. But how do you let Julio beat you on the final drive? Without Calvin Ridley, I would take my chances anyone else beside Julio Jones.

I agree. I don't understand how they let Julio Jones beat him. Like, I don't pretend to be Bill Parcells or Bill Belichick or Jim Johnson or Sean McDermott or anyone on defense that knows about, you know, in-depth coverages. But I know on a final drive when you're facing the Atlanta Falcons and Calvin Ridley's on IR and Mohammed Sunniu has been traded to the Patriots, I am putting two guys on Julio Jones like it's punt. And I'm going to have those guys attack the guy like he's the gutter. And under no circumstances is that guy beating me.

Like the Warriors. If Steph and Clay are going to beat me, so be it. Draymond Green, you're going to have to, or I mean, not so be it. That's not going to happen. Draymond Green, if you beat me, so be it. But you're going to shoot threes. Not those two guys. Julio Jones is not beating me.

Because I know on this field, Julio Jones is the best player in the field. Now George Kittle has an argument, but Eileen Julio, he's been doing it longer. He's going right to the Hall of Fame. He's one of the best receivers we've ever seen. We're missing our nickel corner. I'm putting two guys on him.

And it's like, well, it throws off the defense. I don't give a shit. I'm putting two guys on them and not allowing him to catch the ball. If they throw it to some other random receiver or even Austin Hooper, I'll live with it. But I'm not letting Julio Jones have a walk-off touchdown.

It's like, you know, we just, my guy sagged off Michael Jordan, and he hit the game-winning shot. It's like, I can't do that. Appreciate everyone listening. Have a good week. Thanks for listening. Adios.

See you. If you love to be remembered as the person who gives the best birthday gifts, I'm here to tell you that 1-800 Flowers.com, is your ultimate birthday gifting destination. 1,800 Flowers has thoughtful and artfully created options that are guaranteed to deliver the best birthday surprise. Shop thousands of unique gifts at 1800flowers.com for exclusive offers and great values. To order today, visit 1,800flowers.com slash tune in.

That's 1,800flowers.com slash tune in. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where SportsSlice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear.

Listen to SportsSlic on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo's Slice Life 12. and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier.

This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smygle and friends on the I-Heart Radio app.

podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff, like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her.

What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue of 42. Hey, ref, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Cliffer Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was harmed. You just understood. That's how personal it got.

Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis keep coming to him. You know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.

Guaranteed human.