The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 3 and Out - Caleb Williams/Mahomes Comp, Titanic Sub Thoughts, Friday Mailbag

Episode Date: June 23, 2023

John clarifies his comments that Caleb Williams is a better college prospect than Patrick Mahomes, gives his thoughts on the tragic Titanic submarine story, and answers listener questions heading into the weekend in his Friday edition of  the Middlekauff Mailbag. Follow John onTwitter, Instagram and YouTube for the latest. Check out Gametime - the fastest growing ticketing app in the US, and the official ticketing app of 3 & Out and GoLow -  for tickets to all of your favorite NFL, NBA, NHL, NCAA teams. Concert and comedy show tickets, too. Go to Gametime now to create an account, download the app and use code JOHN for $20 off your first purchase. #volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer,

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The volume. Just a reminder, you can catch me recording this podcast live on Amp. Amp is a new live radio app that lets you call in and chat with me in person while recording. Get the app on Apple's App Store and make sure you follow me at John Middlecough to get notified when I go live. What is going on, everybody, John Middlecop, 3 and Out podcast? Here's the deal today. We will go, I got to give reaction to the reaction on something that was said with me and Aaron Murray. Then I will, I got to touch on the submarine situation, which obviously ended in devastation.

Then we will transition to a mailbag. At John Middlecock is the Instagram, fire in those DMs and get your question answered here on the show. It's just my Instagram DMs wide open. I am going to rattle off a bunch today. and if you fire in over the next several days, I will get to you on Tuesday. Because I think on Monday show, we have an NFL player who is a team captain,

you know, for a pretty important franchise joining us, which should be fun. So we will do the mailbag on Tuesday. But fire in those DMs wide open. And yeah, hopefully you had a good week. Have a good weekend. We will, we're just all trying to enjoy the summer. Sun's out, guns out, beers out.

So let's dive into the show. But before we do, obviously got to tell you about my friends and the official ticketing app of this podcast, 3 and out. It's my friends at GameTime. Go to your smartphone, download the GameTime app, and use the promo code John. That's J-O-H-N. Here's what happens.

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Promote John. $20 off. I don't even need a thank you. Just hammer that promo code. Keep doing it. You guys have been awesome. Game time, promo code John. Before we dive into the mailbag, I wanted to hit on a couple of things really quick.

One, there was, you know, part of the business we're in is when you do, you know, when I do a podcast or like the other day I did, I had Aaron Murray on. you know, you cut something up and you put it out there for social. And a lot of it is, you know, you put quote unquote your spicier stuff to get a reaction, which ultimately drives more people to talk about you. But when it's like, this is clickbait, well, you don't make any money on Twitter or Instagram. So just because someone clicks on it and watches it doesn't actually matter. You have to convert that person into a listener.

So, you know, it'd be easy for someone to say is some of the stuff that gets cut on this show, I'd argue if you listen to the totality of this show on a weekly, daily basis, you know, then I'm not Stephen A, Skip Bayless. That being said, if you just watch a couple of my social clips, you might think that that's what the show's about. Part of the business weren't. It just, it kind of is what it is. And there was a video that we put out the other day with me and Aaron Murray.

And Aaron Murray, we were talking about the level of prospect. Caleb Williams, who is the star quarterback at USC and is a lock, if healthy, to be the number one overall draft pick this season. He would have easily been the number one overall draft pick in this last draft if he was eligible. And I think Aaron Murray said this, even though a lot of people in the comments thought I said it, but I completely agree that Caleb Williams is a better prospect than Patrick Mahomes coming out of college. And everyone went nuts. Hell, I even had a buddy on the Chiefs. Shoot me a text kind of fucking with me, laughing, making fun of the comment.

Even though he knows it's true as well. Because like Zion Williams, Zion Williamson, is a much better prospect coming out of college than Steph Curry. I'm recording this before the NBA draft. The dude from France, Victor Wembeñama, right? He's seven foot five. He's like Kevin Durant, taller, French. I don't even know.

I mean, we'll see. He's a much better prospect than Janice or Yokic coming out of, that they were not coming out of college, but coming into the draft, right? That's not an opinion. That's an objective fact. They are better prospects. That does not mean just because Caleb Williams is a better prospect than Patrick Mahomes or that Zion Williamson is a better prospect than Steph Curry coming into the league, that he's going to be a better player. Like, Zion Williamson slams a couple things pretty well, right? Porn stars and sodas slash candy. Steph Curry puts on rings.

Patrick Mahomes has already won multiple MVPs and multiple rings. The chances that Caleb Williams does that is not hot. But coming into the league, it can't be argued he's a better prospect. Being a good prospect does not mean or equate to a guarantee that you're going to be a good player. So listen, I don't put much stock, if any, into the Twitter reaction. I honestly didn't know it was going viral, quote unquote, on Twitter until Aaron Murray sent me a text. I actually, for my own mental health, I don't even have Twitter on my phone because I'll just, I know myself, I'll check it too much.

And ultimately, I say it all the time, I don't think any of it matters. I don't make any money from it. And the reaction, it gets me too worked up. I'm not trying to be worked up on a Wednesday night at dinner with my girlfriend. Like, it's pointless. And that's ultimately what happens. So I remove it from me because I, I, I, also don't think it's that important. Though the reaction was pretty consistent that it was madness

to say that, even though it's an objective fact, right? It just is. And being a good prospect, like ultimately, Jamarcus Russell was an infinitely better, bigger prospect than Brock Purdy. Brock Purdy in seven games had a better NFL career. If he never played another game, than Jamarcus Russell's entire time in the league. So being a good prospect does not guarantee anything. Now, sometimes you're a great prospect. You become a great player. Lane Johnson, Trent Williams, Nick Bosa, Joey Bosa, right?

Of course. And there are guys that quote unquote aren't great prospects, right? I would say the Watt family are good examples. I think J.J. Watt was a really good prospect, went in the top 15, but he wasn't viewed as some transcendent player. Look at his brother. T.J. Watt, who's easily one of the, I don't know, Hot 5 win healthy defensive players in the NFL, he by no means was viewed as some difference-making prospect. He fell to the late 20s.

So being a good prospect does not determine your future success. Just like anyone listening right now. Where you went to college right now does not determine how successful you will be in your business for the next 20 years, especially if you're 22 to 25 years old. You determine that. 100%. Now, I can give you an advantage, right? If I went to Chico State and some dude next to me went to Penn, he might get some early advantages, but that does not guarantee shit as time goes on, right? Just as in the NFL, Tray Lance was drafted third. And they traded multiple ones to do it.

Well, two and a half years later, he's competing to be the backup. Things change in the NFL probably quicker than for those of us professionally in our youth. Like, it takes a little bit longer and more time. but there are a lot of people that spend a lot of money that are my age going to Big J school at Syracuse or Northwestern that I'm running circles around. And I just went to, you know, a little old Cal Polytechnical institution and then to Fresno State. So it does not, it does not matter.

It really doesn't. Now, you're a better prospect because of physical skills, because, you know, of upside, because of a quote unquote ceiling. But as we see in every sport, a lot of ceilings never get sniffed. A lot of ceilings never even become close to materializing. And a lot of guys that were not viewed as being like, Steph Curry went from being, you know,

this guy's pretty sweet little player Davidson, but what's it going to be in the NBA to being a top 10 player of all time? And then sometimes guys go number one overall, Tim Duncan, right, and become an all-time great player, right? LeBron. I mean, he's just,

Andrew Luck. He retired early, but he immediately lived up to it, right? It looks like Trevor Lawrence is immediately living up to it. to it. But just because you're a great prospect does not guarantee anything. I would bet on Caleb Williams becoming a really good player. Right. But unlike Patrick Mahomes, who got to be drafted by Andy Reid red shirt a year, Caleb Williams is going to be drafted by the worst team in the

in the NFL. And we'll see how it plays out the season. Who's his coach? Who's his offensive coordinator? Who's he throwing? Because right now in college, he's had one of the better offensive minds over the last couple decades in college football, right? I mean, Lincoln Riley is easily on the shortlist when it comes to offense with, you know, the Chip Kelly Oregon tenure, Mike Leach. I mean, it's, it's a very, very small group of people. I mean, I'm not a huge fan, but I got to give him the guy credit, Urban Meyer, had some pretty good offenses.

So, yeah, but he's got to live up to it. And that's the hard part about just like Victor Wembeenjama. Everyone's like, he's the greatest prospect since LeBron or Kareem. Well, that's a high bar. the likelihood that he's going to be LeBron or Kareem, I would say, is slim the nun. It's like the likelihood that Caleb and the comp, and it is fair

because their games are somewhat similar, is going to be Patrick Mahomes, you would say is very, very unlikely. Like, slim the nun. I would put like under 5%, because Patrick Mahomes is clearly one of the best

quarterbacks we've ever seen. But not just best, like physically you can make all the throws. Legitimately wins. Super Bowls, MVP's. So, it's going to be fascinating to watch. And really quick, before we dive into the mailbag, the submarine story that I honestly didn't know that much about.

My girlfriend and all her friends are obsessed with it. As of recording this right now, the ship, last I read, you know, essentially blew up. I'm not a big maritime guy. I don't know all the terms.

Submarine, I don't know much about submarines. I just know, I can't really relate. I'm not a big thrill seeker when it comes to bungee jumping, skydiving, flying to space, submarine. I don't care if I'm worth a billion dollars or worth $1. Under no circumstances, does that stuff do anything for me. I can't relate at all. I don't have some strong opinion like thinking these guys, like everyone gets off differently in terms of what they need out of their life, right? Whether you're rich, whether you're poor or whatever, we all need things to kind of push us. This clearly, you know, is, it was very, very expensive to go down to the Titanic. I get my thrills by gambling. And I don't just mean on sports. The stock market, real estate.

I mean, I like putting my money to use and I have no problem risking a lot of stuff that I probably shouldn't. But that's kind of how, that's, that's how I live on the edge. I don't need to jump off a cliff, you know, in a tandem jump to like get my rocks off. I also, I feel that that's when the big guy upstairs. I'm not even that religious would come to get me because I've, life's been pretty good to me so far. I just don't need it. It doesn't do anything for me. So I can't relate, I mean, in the slightest to even entertaining the thought of doing something like this. And that being said, like, it's a tragic event. But I also don't understand this. You know, anyone who's under 40, most of our lives have been intertwined with the, really,

the technological boom, right? I was born in the 80s by the mid-90s from video games to computers through the internet to where we're at now. We've kind of lived in our whole life. Now, if you're 20 years old, all you've known is the internet. We've seen the maturation of that, but you still understand the, how difficult it is to go step to step, right? I say this all the time when I was a kid, anyone, you knew less than one, you could count on one hand people in your neighborhood, let alone people that you like personally knew, like, or friends with that had big screen TVs. And if they did in like 1995, it was the size of like a van. It was massive. It was enormous. And now, I mean, I'm looking at two.

big screen TVs that I got from Target for like a total of $850. So it's times changed, but it takes a while, right? Big screens TVs now are very, very cheap. Well, 25, 15, whatever years ago, they're very, very expensive. Like times change, but it takes while for technology to catch up to everything. I played golf with someone yesterday that's a part of like a golfing brand. I don't want to throw it out there because we've been trying to get them part of the podcast. And they're going into the golf ball space. Well, their golf balls aren't very good. Well, of course they're not. They're just starting from scratch, right? Why are tidal-less golf balls good? They've been doing it forever. Like, why does Ford make good trucks? They're bread and butter. It's what they do.

So when I see that the submarine was led by Wi-Fi and a controller, listen, one day, probably everything, whether it's in the water, we're going to have driverless cars. I mean, they're already driverless Ubers that are Teslas or whatever, we're headed there. There is no doubt about it. But like, I never want to be the first to be a part of that. When you tell me Wi-Fi underwater to go see the Titanic, it feels like in 2023, a lot can go wrong, right? In 2050, it might be the easiest thing we do.

Like, it might be a no-brainer, like me getting on a Southwest flight to fly right now to Sacramento. You don't even think twice. You just pay the $110 for the one-way flight. Get on it. Boom, you're there an hour and a half from Scottsdale. Right? I don't think, but maybe 50 years ago, you're like, is it safe to play?

Like, I know this. I don't see how. And there are a lot of stories out that people are pushing back that were a part of the safety. They're like, the CEO was being told this is not safe. This is not worth the risk. A lot can go wrong. And clearly the worst thing possible went wrong. But is it really that crazy?

Like they were Wi-Fi dependent. They were run and the guy was bragging by a PlayStation controller. Seems crazy to me. And like I said, I can't relate to the idea of even wanting to do this. It doesn't even begin to cross my mind of something I'd be interested in. But yeah, pretty crazy and just ultimately sad ending to a bizarre story. Do you know that Angie's list is now Angie? You're home for everything.

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or visit Angie.com. That's A.N.gI.com. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, let's dive into the mailbag. At John Middlecock, Instagram, fire into those direct messages and get your question answered here. This is from Nate.

John, Nate here. Love the pod. Have been listening for years. I appreciate your honest opinions on player contracts and what you think they're value is. I find myself agreeing with your takes quite often. Is Nate guys smart? I've been a lifelong cheese fan and can remember wearing my Elvis Gerbach jersey in the late 90s as a kid. former 49 or Elvis Gerbeck.

I don't want to take any of what we currently have with Mahomes and Reed for granted, and I want to see them to maximize the window we are in. My question is about Chris Jones and his latest holdout for wanting a new contract. He signed a four-year $80 million contract with a little under $40 million guaranteed in 2020. I think Chris is an amazing talent and is the foundation of our defensive line, but I'm a little frustrated that he is holding out for more. years or money already. What are your thoughts on what Vich should do? Well, here's the thing. I understand when guys like Chris Jones, like my pushback on Sequin Barclay is not only have you

been paid a premium, like you guys have been kind of irrelevant. Like your best moment was this 9 and 18. So like, are you a winning player? Like in theory you should be, but you want 40 million dollars guaranteed at a running back position when people aren't paying that like I'm hesitant to do it. Right. I get hesitant to pay non-winning players. For example, the 49ers broke the bank with that same contract, four years, $80 million, 40 guaranteed to Javon Hargrave. Well, what's Javon Hargrave's resume?

Played for the Steelers, wins. Plays for the Eagles wins more. Niners, we'll take them. We'll pay you premium. I like paying premiums to winning players. Stefan Diggs, I do support. A little crazy. Can be a little up and down.

So can I. But he has proven with Minnesota and Buffalo, you make me the number one option on a good team. We are going to win. They won in Minnesota going to the playoffs. They've been winning in Buffalo. Now, as a star receiver, it's not his fault. I'm not blaming him for the reason they lost to the Cincinnati Bengals in the playoffs.

Or two years ago when they lost the championship. Chiefs. Like, Stefan Diggs might be a little crazy. He's a winning player. I know that for a fact. Chris Jones is a stud. You know, Chris Jones, like you said, is the staple of your defensive line and is on the best team in the league. Three Super Bowls, five years. So I just pulled it up. He is going to be 28. He's going to be 29 here in a couple weeks. So he's looking at it going, well, Hargrave just got 40 million. My guaranteed money's up. So, what do holdouts usually have? Like, why do they happen?

It's all about money, which we know this. Like, why is Diggs acting weird? He wants more money. That's part of life. It's part of the business that these guys are in. So I think I would try to just guarantee him a little more money, maybe guarantee the rest of his little Aaron Donald style, just give some more money.

But you can get rid of Tyree Kill, even though he's a Hall of Fame player too and an unreal player. Like Tyree Kill, peak of his power still. But like, you could figure it out. out at the wide receiver position, you still have Kelsey, you can't just like get rid of Chris Jones. Well, not currently today. You got no replacement for him. What are you going to do? So I think Chris has a little leverage here. And they know it. And they, from all my knowledge, they really like him. He's been, you know, from Holmes and Kelsey and Hill. I mean,

he's right there as being their defining draft picks of the organization of this run. So I would throw, I would throw him some more cash. If he was 32, I would get it. Like, yeah, I don't know if I'm budging. He's 29. I think 29, 30, 31, you'd say, still got several good years left. Let me bring up his game log. 17, 14, 14.

So, you know, he's been banged up over the years. Last year, didn't miss the start. Yeah, I mean, it's, I guess it's a little complicated if he's got an injury history, even though it's not terrible. God, he was good last year, 15 and a half sex. Hey, John, long time listener, after I found you on Collins feed, love the content. Question for the pot. I'm a northern VA native and diehard commanders fan.

I think DC should be a huge market where free agents would want to sign. With new ownership, do you think that we will be a big signing destination? Also, with Ron Rivera, if Ron Rivera fails with Howell, you think he'll be out as probably on a short leash with new ownership. Lastly, I think our future is really bright and we are a quarterback away from being a real contender. The thing of being a quote-unquote

free agent destination, that's not really the way the NFL works. This isn't the NBA. We're like Kevin Durant, like all these guys, LeBron, you just start naming them, eventually become free agents. And the NFL guys in their prime, like Patrick Mahomes, Travis Kelsey,

Tyree Kill, right? Devante Adams. These guys never, quote, unquote, hit free agency. Think of all the best players in the league. Just go position by position. Trent Williams, Quentin Nelson, Mahomes, Josh Allen, Herbert. Just start naming off the players. Kittle, Kelsey, Devante, Justin Jefferson, Dix.

When do these guys ever become free agents? Some of them get traded, Jaylon Ramsey or whatever. But they get traded, but there's no such thing as like free agency destination. If you win guys that become available because they're cut, right? like a Dalvin Cook, Hopkins, they're good examples right now. Yeah,

but usually like sweet players, like the Kevin Durant of the NBA when the Warriors signed them, that never happens in the NFL, ever, because every team has the money. Like Jamar Chase, Joe Burrow,

if it was the NBA, you'd be like, well, what if they just play it out? Like, no, 100% both those guys are going to get extended. Like,

that is an objective fact, as long as they don't have devastating injuries or whatever, right. So I don't think that's, that's not your problem. Your problem is just look who's good in the division. The Eagles got good because they drafted Carson Wentz, the Nick Foll saved him, and then Jalen Hertz saved him. Obviously, they've done a good job around, you know, the team, the Cowboys. We've got Dak Prescott. We can nitpick all we want, and trust me, I do. But Dak Prescott's a legitimate starting quarterback. And every year, if he's healthy, you're going to win

double-digit games. Now, we can, the playoffs might be another story, but like Prescott's a legitimate admit top 12 quarterback. If you get a solid quarterback in the NFL, just a solid quarterback, like you're going to be good. If Kyler Murray is just healthy, not a Kyler Murray guy at all, but like you can contend when I say contend, like to make the playoffs, you get a really good quarterback. The Bengals were a joke in that period like after Marvin Lewis. Number one pick in the draft, get Joe Burrell, boom, sweet. Not just sweet, like fucking ass kickers. So to me, it's just quarterback. It really is. Because you've proven over the years to get good players, good Trent Williams, good defensive linemen, good wide receivers, good running backs,

good linebackers. Like, any team can find that. There is an element of luck slash being on the right guy when it comes to the quarterback. That's your game changer. I don't know enough about Sam Howell to feel confident one way or the other. Kind of the same thing with Jordan Love, even though I know more about Jordan Love just in terms of he's a better physical, quote unquote, prospect, Sam, you know, Jordan Love's been in a league a while now, but then Sam Howell, but both guys like, if you told me they're both good, believe you. If you told me they both stink, believe you. That's, there's a hard part about the NFL, the likelihood that they're both good actually slim than none because that's just, but one of the guys could be, you know, become the next

Andy Dalton could become the next Derek Carr, or they both could be just, guys that are replaced in a couple years, which historically just football at that position would say, yeah, more than likely they just be replaced. It's really, really hard to play quarterback. Obviously, everyone listening knows that. But usually, how many guys become like random starters, right? Dax started immediately. Now, he was a fourth round pick, but like Russell Wilson became a starter as rookie year.

How many guys that are mid-round picks become? just solidify your position. Kirk Cousins feels like an all-time outlier in recent memory. Guy that just becomes a decade-long starter who's a fourth-round pick. Just doesn't happen. Look like even Jimmy Garaplo, Derek Cart, these guys were high second-round picks. Jordan Love, if he becomes like, yeah, he was a first-round pick. Love the pod. Thank you for the football content during the long offseason. Shit, you're telling me. As a Colts fan, it's been incredibly irritating going through so many quarterbacks ever since Lux's retirement. I was really hoping we draft Levis despite the negative

comments about him. But as you know, that didn't happen. Can you give your opinion on what the team can do differently so that Anthony Richardson can thrive? And do you really think the Colts will be awful as everyone says? Well, if he's just a complete project terrible as a rookie, which is not inconceivable, yeah, it's going to be very, very hard to operate. Like, why did you really suck last year. Let's face it. Your offensive line clearly underachieved, but your quarterback play, Matt Ryan was shot. And then every guy you rolled in after him was terrible. And your coaching stunk too. Well, hiring Shane Stuyken wasn't just hiring this young offensive mind. He literally just worked with this raw product who was farther along in terms of four-year starter in college

or technically three, but you guys know. It just won a ton of games, a ton of success and just came in very serious cat, right? And they molded this offense that kind of morphed as he got better as a thrower. And they added weapons around him. But early on with Jalen Hertz, it was pretty ugly from a passing standpoint, but he was such a good runner. You know, I do think you, whenever you get a player who's going to need a lot of work, would Patrick Mahomes have worked with any coach? I think a lot of people would say, yeah, the cream usually rises to the top. And I'm a big believer in that. But when in an industry like football at quarterback, so many things are out of your control.

Who's your head coach? Who's your play caller? Who's blocking for you? Who's your GM putting around you? Is your organization toxic or is a high level? But Kenny Pickett probably is not going to fail. Why? He's got Talmud and the Steelers.

He's got an infrastructure. He's got good defense. They draft incredibly well at the skill positions. They've invested a lot more with the offensive line. They just drafted a guy in the top 15. like they will do everything humanly possible to maximize the guy whose ceiling is not Josh Allen's right but it's going to be equipped around him at a really really high level I think Anthony Richardson first and foremost get him a coach that knows how to scheme an

offense that can put them in positions and then I would say you got to think long term with this take the bumps but then over the next couple of years can you find like they did with Jalen Hertz get him in AJ Brown can you draft if you've been drafted third overall this year. Marvin Harrison Jr., which would be kind of ironic because his dad obviously is a Colts legend. But can you do that? Like, that's, can you put the infrastructure around him?

Like, ultimately, Peyton Manning, all-time great player. Seen him play live five times. He's fucking incredible to watch. When he's on, it was stupid. I saw him eviscerate the Raiders several times. Also throw some picks. Same with the Eagles, actually. We played him when I was with the

when he was with the Colts and Asante Samuel had a sweet pick six. But they did a good job around surrounding him with awesome offensive talent. And I think that's the key. Like is Brock Purdy some star or is he a solid player, knew what to do and got to throw to Debo Samuel, George Kittle, and Christian McCaffrey? I mean, that's a huge part of football, man. Hey, John, welcome to Arizona. I know you're a Cali guy, but hopefully you get a chance to follow the Cardinals a little closer.

Yeah, probably not going to happen. Not sure if you caught much of the in-season hard knocks last year, but it was pretty clear Arizona has a pretty bootleg operation. I watched three or four episodes, and I would tend to agree, yes. I get they didn't have much of a choice, but to clean house with that coaching staff and part ways with guys who clearly didn't want to be there, like DeAndre Hopkins. As far as the draft goes, they have a need at basically every position.

But I do wish they traded a little further down than they did and got Devin Witherspoon or Arizona native Bejan Robinson. Then again, getting some protection for the smallest quarterback in the league has ever seen is probably smart. Vegas has the over under and the Cardinals win total at four and a half. To me, the screams bet the house on the over, but maybe I'm missing something. You think that us gamblers call a market inefficiency, or do you really see them being the worst team in the league? I would struggle in the NFL in general. I'm not a big over-underer better, mainly because I'm not a patient better. Like if I'm going to invest long-term, I do that with stocks.

I can't over-under, I can't wait four months. I'll just bet week one or week four. So, and to get the payout, so I'm just getting wait. Plus 110? Well, I don't know. I just take an underdog on a certain week at plus 110. because to get the juice for me to make it worth it, like I got to put a four-figure down or an over-under bet.

It just doesn't do that much for me. So philosophically, just want to get it out there as a gambler. I don't gamble over-over-unders, but if I did, I would probably be hesitant to do these teams that are in the four-to-five range. Because you can stink and win six games. Like, they could be terrible and just luck into a couple games. In general,

even if you're awful, you are in a lot of games in the NFL. You just are. This is not college where if you're the worst team in your conference, you're getting blown out, you know, in conference games and maybe a couple non-conference games. If you're going two and ten, you could get blown out eight of the 12 games. In the NFL, maybe get blown out a couple times. Like the Colts, would they just draft four?

Think how many games they were in? Think how many games they were in. shit, they beat the Chiefs. They easily could have won some of the thing about some of the games they blew. So I would be hesitant. I wouldn't touch that. But I'm with you. I don't think it's like a lock that they go under.

That being said, I do think they're going to stink. They have an unproven coach. Their quarterback won. He's not even healthy. So are we sure that he's going to start the year? I don't think he is. But, and why would you rush them to do that? I also think really quick back to your trade thing.

I think when you suck, you always want to trade down. It does take two to tango, right? The bears are a good example. They desperately wanted to trade down. They were going to get fields another year. If there weren't teams, if there were no quarterbacks in the draft, they wouldn't have big offers. Part of having a trade partner is finding the partner.

If you want to get on the dance floor, no girls are going to dance with you. You're going to be dancing by yourself. So I'm not defending them. and acting like they're smarter than everyone else or they made some good moves, but I don't know, were their phones blown up? Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators,

and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Huge fan of the pod. Love listening. I'm Packer fan, transplanted in Tennessee and was wondering what your thoughts were on, how much time will LaFleur be given for the love experiment?

And why don't you think LaFleur is mentioned is the same breath as McVeigh, Shanahan, or even Mike McDaniel. Well, I think the latter part of your question is easy. He inherited Aaron Rogers, right? If Steve Kerr would have just won four championships with like the Wizards or the Clippers or just a little more of a random franchise, even the Clippers would be a bad example because Quiet already won two. But just a team that didn't have a star, right?

you just don't get as much credit is when you win it with Steph Curry even though Steph Curry hadn't won a championship without Steve Kerr. Just a reality. Right? So when you inherit Aaron Rogers who had won multiple MVPs and been a Super Bowl champ

and been one of the best quarterbacks we'd ever seen, he's going to get more credit than you. But you can make up that gap dramatically when he leaves. So whether Aaron, like if Aaron has success, or failure, it doesn't matter for LaFleur.

But if LaFleur this year, let's just say goes 10 and 7, let's say they won the division at 10 and 7 and Jordan Love, it's just solid. It throws like 26 touchdowns, 10 picks. They're a good running team. Their team's just good. Matt LaFleur would get a shit ton of credit and well deserved. But I do think it's hard when you inherit.

You know, does Mike Shanahan get as much credit as he should for winning back-to-back Super Bowls? Probably not. Why? Because he inherited John Elway. John Elway had already been to three. Now, he'd never won one, but it just, it's hard when you have an established all-time grade. Right?

Tim Cook, for example, pretty sure since Steve Jobs has died, Apple has dominated. It doesn't feel like Tim Cook gets anywhere near the acclaim, the just is talked about in the same. level is Steve Jobses. And probably, you know, obviously Steve was a huge driver of creating the thing. But don't you get credit for keeping it rolling? Keep innovating. Keep making products. The AirPods.

I've already bought like seven pairs in a year. It's like a $10 billion business. But no, you just don't. Fair or not, which I think many would offer not fair. I think he's getting, unless this year is just horrendous, right? I'm trying to think of a year of a recent quarterback who was just beyond terrible. Well, like, think about some of the Matt Ryan, Carson Wentz. Carson Wentz probably a bad example because his stats, if Jordan Love was putting up his

stats, he would get more time. What Matt Ryan looked like this year with the Colts were like, this is not going to work. If that's what it looks like, regardless of the stats and they're not winning, it's like, this is not going to work. He'll just get one year. and then LaFleur and Goudicans will get another quarterback. But I think it would have to be beyond terrible for love not to come back. Now, if it was beyond terrible and they had like the number one overall pick,

which I think their team's too talented to be drafting super high, I think what's more likely is they're just solid, you know? When I say solid, like, you know, you could argue there's not that big of a gap between seven and nine wins. could be an interception here, could be a fumble there, could be a miss field goal here, it could be a block field goal there. So the gap is very, very small in terms of success and failures when it comes to winning seven or nine games.

But if they went nine and eight with Jordan Love, I think he would get a boatload of credit. I started watching your podcast a couple months ago. Appreciate that. But I'm a Dolphins fan and wanted to know your in-depth analysis on why you don't think Tua is a good quarterback. I 100% 10% agree injuries are a huge concern. But just talking purely on the field,

I think he played at the top 8 to 10 quarterback level last season. Led the league in pass-a-rating, 25 touchdowns, 8 picks, 3,500 yards, in only 13 games. Is it crazy to think Tua can be this generation's Drew Brees? Not in terms of making the Hall of Fame, but an outlier of a smaller quarterback with not great tools, exceptional accuracy, timing, and knowledge of the game, he does throw a beautiful deep ball.

And they have two awesome deep ball receivers, right? They got two speed demons. Tyreeks is incredible after the catch. But I don't think you could separate the two. I think if Tuol was just 100% healthy on the field, you'd be fine. You could, in 49ers, we're going to NFC championship games and a Super Bowl with Jimmy Garoppola. Jimmy Garoppel can do that.

Tua can do that. Now, Tua, like you're right on off these stats. better stats than Jimmy. They have more explosive receivers. But my point is, yeah, I think Tua, if he was just on the field all the time, but you can't separate the two. He had a devastating injury in college, had his hip ripped off. He gets caoed in NFL nonstop.

So it's not that I don't think he's a good quarterback. I think he's fine. I think he's solid. I don't really like smaller guys, especially when they're not great athletes. And part of it, he's a pocket quarterback that doesn't really know how to avoid big hits. But yeah, in a vacuum, if he was just on the field a lot, like Eli Manning for a decade, right? Never missing games, you'd be fine. You'd win.

You'd go to the playoffs. And then you never know in the playoffs. It's just, you know, can you get a pick? Can you get the right sack at the right moment? Can you, can your guy make a play? Most playoff games are not blowouts, right? So, if you be Drew Brees, I don't think I'd go that for. The injuries, man, I really can't separate him.

but I by no means I've come around. I probably thought he was going to be, I don't know if he was going to be a scrub. I didn't think he was going to be that good. He's better than I thought. And part of it, his offensive coordinator now is really good. You add Tyree Kill. I mean, Tyree Kill is the best player in your team last year.

Even if Tua hadn't gotten hurt, like that's the MVP of your team. Even you'd have to admit that. He's one of the best players we've ever seen. I would say you could argue he's a top five wide receiver ever. Right? with Jerry, Randy Moss, Terrell Owens. You give me another name after those guys?

I'd put Tyreek right up there. He's a winning player. He's a championship level player. He's a dominant player in the playoffs and the regular season. He can run all the routes. He can break tackles. He can go deep. He can go short.

A fucking guy can do it all. Here it is. This is a good one. I've been listening to your podcast three and out for a while now. And I have a question. In your opinion, what is the lowest level that a former football player can claim that they were in the NFL. One, was drafted or signed as a rookie free agent.

Two, played in at least one preseason game. Three, made a practice squad. Well, if you make a practice squad, you're in the NFL. Made a 53 man, for sure, played at least one snap. If five is the answer, could a rookie quarterback who lasted a year or two on a team holding a clipboard on the sideline, but never played a snap in a regular game still count as an NFL player? Yes. I would say if you are drafted in the NFL, if I'm a seventh round draft pick and I don't make it after training camp, I get cut and they don't get me on a practice squad, I made the NFL. Not only was I drafted, I played in the preseason. I think if you play in the preseason, like you're there during training camp, you're practicing and you're playing in preseason games, you made the NFL. Then we can argue the semantics of you had a five-year career. I was two years. I was a practice. squad guy, but I think if you get drafted and playing in the preseason, like you had more than

a cup of coffee. Like to me, a cup of coffee in the NFL would be like, got a couple tryouts and OTAs, never made it to training camp. If you're in training camp every single day, meeting rooms playing in the preseason, I give you an NFL player. That's fucking hard. Even in 2020, when training camp is easier in like 1980s, it's still really, really impressive. You get drafted in the NFL or even as an undrafted free agent. Someone signed you, like a GM and head coach, want you to be on their team. Even if you don't make the team, practice squad for sure you're in the NFL. And clearly, if you're on the 53 man roster, you're literally in the NFL. I mean, you're on a team. You know, we could argue like if you're on a practice squad,

are you on the team? Technically not. Your wages aren't the same as a guy that's on the team. But to me, you are on the team because you practice every day. You're part of the weekly plans. I would say I would probably start it the hybrid of one and two if you're drafted and play in the preseason slash undrafted free agent play in the preseason. Now, there are different levels, right? Like, are you a professional baseball player if you never make into the big leagues but get drafted in the second round and playing the minors for seven years? I just think the way you preface it is like, I was a professional baseball player. I never got to the show. Right. But And if you get to the show for a September call-up, you know, I get to play professional

baseball. Okay, last one. Listen to what every episode, Drow's Bucks fan here. With most of the good player signed and with Baker Mayfield and Bowles leading the team's most important spots on a team, do you see most of the guys giving in after a couple weeks in hopes of getting a superstar quarterback in Caleb? Also, once Bowles inevitably leads us to a top five pick, should he go? You know the thing with a situation like this?

Most of us view the Bucks. Probably going to be pretty bad. Let's just say they are competing to have the worst record in the NFL. Well, it's one thing, even if you know it going in, I follow Jason Light on Instagram, their GM. He's in like Italy right now, having a good time. I don't blame him. I mean, he just, he resurrected the bucks by signing Tom Brady, got him to playoffs, won a Super Bowl, like, deserves credit. Won the division three years in a row, even if last year was kind of questionable.

But Tom Brady changed the franchise. It's one thing, like, we're going to suck. it's cool, we want Caleb, everything would be good. And if I told you right now, would you rather win like seven games and have a kind of entertaining season and draft 13th overall, or just win two games, get the number one overall pick? You would easily choose two games and have the number one overall pick. The problem with that, if you're Todd Bowles, Todd Bulls agent, Todd Bulls wife, that is going to be an ugly season, man. You're going to be losing a ton of games, a lot of anger, a lot of ugliness, a lot of empty fans. A lot of empty seats with fans booing.

It's an ugly, ugly process to get there. Like, trust the process. It was pretty ugly during that time. You become an embarrassment. You become a joke. For a long time, the Saints were called the Ains. The Bucks were called the Yucks. And in football, it's such a, what have you done for me lately?

People turn on you quick. So if you're Todd Bowles, he definitely is not trying to get the number one overall pick. And I'm not putting that much stock into some of these spring videos of Baker Mayfield, not completing passes, which don't look pretty. They don't. But if that does translate to the season, which it easily could because Baker hasn't been good now for a while. I remember watching him last year when the Panthers played the 49ers. I'm like, this guy's terrible.

This guy, he's your starting quarterback. You're going to lose, especially against good teams. it'd be Todd Bull is going to get that number one overall pick I would say 50-50 and I would lean probably not actually appreciate everyone firing in those DMs

audios another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy not quite on humor me with Robert Smigel and friends me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier this week my guest

SNL's Mikey Day and headwriters Street or Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games.

Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all. Embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHart podcast.

Guaranteed Human.