The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 3 and Out - C.J. Stroud Pro Day, Lamar Contract Chaos, Ekeler Value, Cam Clickbait, Mailbag

Episode Date: March 24, 2023

John discusses Ohio State QB C.J. Stroud’s pro day, and if the Panthers are locked in on him as the #1 Pick, the latest chaos surrounding Lamar Jackson’s contract negotiations with the Ravens, why the Chargers shouldn’t pay big money to keep TD machine Austin Ekeler, and if any team will bite on Cam Newton’s comeback. He also answers listener questions in the Middlekauff Mailbag. Subscribe NOW and follow Middlekauff and The Volume on Twitter, Instagram and YouTube for the latest content. It's always FanDuel for the best wagering action! #volume #herdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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What is going on, my people. John Middilcock 3 and Out podcast. How are we doing? Live. Well, not really live because it's a podcast. Recording from Scottsdale, Arizona. Hopefully everyone's having a great week. Headed into the weekend.

Spirit are high. Smiles are wide. And life is good. Football is rolling. And we had the CJ Stroud Pro Day, the Carolina Panthers, David Tepper, and 700 million people attended that thing. from the Panthers, let alone other teams.

Austin Echler wants to trade. Lamar Jackson, that situation is getting awfully interesting. A lot of talk around the Lamar Jackson situation. We'll dive into some of that. And I don't know if I'm going to do a mailbag for the weekend. I answered a bunch of your guys mailbag questions on this show. At John Middlecoff. At John Middlecoff is my Instagram.

Fire in those DMs and get your questions answered here on the show. Very, very easy to do. At John Middlecoff, just my name. DM's wide open. We do middle coffee mailbag multiple times a week, so fire in there. And yeah, football talk. It's kind of that sweet spot right between, like, I wouldn't say free agency is over because there are still guys available.

And there's still, I mean, Aaron Rogers hasn't been traded yet. So we are waiting on some things to materialize. But it's like kind of that sweet spot between that and the draft. And for the next month, you know, we're basically almost a month away exactly from the draft. So it's a fun time. A lot of change is happening. And yeah, we're here to talk football. so let's rock and roll.

Okay, before we dive in through some football news, I wanted to tell you about my friends at Game Time. You guys want to go to a concert? You want to go to a comedy show? You want to get outside. Major League Baseball, about to start. NBA playoffs right around the corner.

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And when you do, in these inflationary times, I got a deal for you. $20 off. promo code John, J-O-H-N, $20 off, J-O-H-N, your first pair of tickets. I don't even need to thank you. Just download the GameTime app,

go to a game, go to a concert, go to a comedy show, save a little money on me. Thank me later. You don't actually have to do that, though. You just use the promo code, John. If you're going to go to an event,

use the promo code John, and enjoy yourself. Download the GameTime app right now, promo code John. Okay, a lot going on. I wanted to start with the contingent of the Carolina Panthers, who one of the things that Kyle Shanahan said when they traded up for Tray Lance, a trade that I'm sure they would like back. But when they went from 12 to 3, they wanted to be able to deal with the quarterbacks without worrying about what everyone else thought, without, you know, basically putting off alarms and red flags when they were meeting with guys. They didn't want to have to worry sitting at 12 if they were going to have to trade up on draft night.

People knew the quarterback they liked. So they traded up before to number three. And obviously they didn't control the draft, but they knew at the time who the first and second pick were going to be. We knew for a fact who the first pick was going to be. And it was clear early on that the Jets love Zach Wilson. Now, in this draft, Carolina traded very early. And a big reason for it is they don't want to have to have. to worry about the quarterback that they love, then on draft night, try to make that trade

when also other teams could like that player and basically either trade ahead of them, pick that player, you don't have to deal with it. You control the draft. Now, I didn't love the compensation they gave, but I understand the mindset. And they're, you know, the guy that bought the team paid $4 billion in cash. And the reason he has that money is one of the great Wall Street guys ever. He is a legendary money guy. And clearly he likes being part of this operation because him and his wife were part of the pro day. I'll tell you this. I talked to enough scouts who would have gladly let David Tepper go to all their pro days for them.

Because pro days are kind of boring. Now, I get it. Part of it is one, you just want to, if it is true and all signs point to C.J. Stroud being their quarterback, sign of support. Also see how he acts with everyone watching. You're not worried about what other teams think because they don't, you're drafting ahead of them. Now, I think, and we have this discussion every single year,

how much bowl games matter, how much can you actually make yourself? And it happens every year in the NCAA tournament, guys ball in the NCAA tournament and go a little higher. And in bowl games, it's a little different because it's based on, you know, you're usually a multi-year starter. You have a ton of tape. But I think the unique thing was CJ Stroud. And I wasn't the biggest fan in the sense of I never,

viewed him as a number one overall pick because I didn't think he was very mobile. And I'm a big believer that I got to have mobility in my quarterbacks in 2003. There are way more good defensive linemen than there are good offensive linemen. And for the most part, you have to be able to move behind the pocket. I think the days of Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Philip Rivers, Eli Manning, like those days are kind of over. And part of it is the league doesn't control who comes up the pipe. The college does. And most of the college quarterbacks are all athletic. But it felt like CJ was a little bit of a throwback, more of a true pocket quarterback. And then you watch him against Georgia, a team littered with NFL guys, and he moved around

and he made plays. Now, Ohio State people have been on me forever that he's more athletic than I ever gave him credit for. And that might be the case, but you got to see it. And that's why these NFL teams, executives, scouts, coaches, watch so much film. Tape doesn't lie. The eye in the sky does not lie. And I think he showed in that game, one, we know he throws a beautiful ball.

and it's hard to judge. His production's been fantastic, but he's playing with like five first rounders over a two-year span at wide receiver against a Big Ten conference, which isn't exactly the fastest conference in the country. But you see him making those plays with his legs, and I don't mean running like Lamar Jackson and Kyler Murray.

I'm just saying keep plays alive, which is a big part of the NFL. And it's a big part of all the best quarterbacks, whether it's obviously Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Herbert, Trevor Lawrence, you know, Lamar, who will get into in a second also, right? I don't need you necessarily to run like Lamar, but I need you to keep plays alive. Before everything went off the rails with Deshaun Watson, honestly, one of his best attributes was being a playmaker, keeping plays alive behind the line of scrimmage while going left

or right and keeping his eyes down the field, looking to throw. Russell Wilson was great at it before he went to Denver. I mean, it's one of the things that made him a Hall of Fame level quarterback. and the instincts, the playmaking, I got to have that. And I think that it's just one game sample size, but clearly they feel pretty good about it. We know he throws a great ball, but if his legs are like that,

maybe they got themselves a guy who could compete to be a top 10 quarterback because it feels like they're all in. Their owner loves every part of this, bringing his wife to a pro day. That might be a first, but to each his own. You pay $400 million, you can do whatever you want. $4 billion. Didn't pay $400 million.

That would be 10x. He paid a lot of money for the team. So he's clearly excited about his future quarterback. And I think anything but C.J. Stroud going number one overall now would feel a little bit like a curveball. I've been pretty consistent on Lamar Jackson. You know, I've known enough people, my friend's parents or my friend's grandparents, that started businesses, whether it be in construction, whether it be in retail,

whether it be in the alcohol business. and as their business grows, they either acquire other businesses under their umbrella or they have sold to these VC firms that buy a lot of businesses just like them and then put it all under one conglomerate. And these people are all millionaires. Yet when they make enormous, either an acquisition or sell their own business, they have someone involved who knows how to negotiate and write out the deal. Why? Because that's not their level. of expertise. And these people are used to doing business deals. Lamar Jackson is a quarterback. He is not a contract guy. And listen, I don't know Lamar's mom, but clearly she ain't Drew Rosenhouse

or Tom Condon. And I'm not someone who's Mr. Pro Agent. I have not used one since I've been doing deals with Colin. I deal with him or his money guy directly. No issues. But if I was dealing with a contract that was going to be $50, $150 million, I would call in a lawyer. Why? That's not my level of expertise, even though I've done several deals in this podcast form, in other avenues of life, and not had an issue with it. So if you have some intelligence, you can negotiate for yourself up to certain amounts. There gets to a point where you need someone who does this for a living. Why is Lamar a good quarterback because he practices being a quarterback throughout the season. It's what he does. It's who he is. Right. And I think Lamar, this situation has been very chaotic. There is no way around it.

It has kind of been embarrassingly bad. And I'm not just putting it all on Lamar, the Ravens too. But in fairness to the Ravens, like, they're dealing with a guy and his mom. If you dealt with me and my mom, it would become emotional. And I think when you look at this, and I've said this before, When a contract like this, and people have reported on this, this goes straight to the owner. You know, if I'm signing a guy on day two of free agency for a $10 million contract total, I probably don't need to tell my owner. But the moment I sign a quarterback, especially a quarterback where I'm giving a lot of money to, I probably keep the owner in the loop.

When Mahomes, Josh Allen, Herbert, who I'm sure will be extended, same with Joe Burrell. those deals start with ownership and work their way down. And in this situation, a story that was reported that they were going, a guy that's not a certified agent, is negotiating on Lamar's behalf with other teams. Like, I'm sorry, that's kind of a fucking clown show. This is big boy business. And Lamar, like, if you're listening to this right now,

let's say you make $100,000. If I told you, would you let someone negotiate your salary in 2024 there was going to be 120 grand for a couple percent, you'd probably say, no, but it's just 20 grand factor in inflation. It's really not even that big of a rage. I'll just negotiate it myself. But if I told you you were making 100 grand, would you pay someone 2% to negotiate you a million a year salary? Of course you would. So when you start dealing with money at this rate, which Lamar is dealing with $150, $200 million potential contract, we don't know. know the exact details of guarantees, but it's going to be immediately one of the bigger contracts

in the history of the league. Having your mom, you know, being one of the lead voices in negotiation, it's just not a good idea. There is no way around it. I don't see how you listen to this. Anyone can disagree, right? It's one thing to have your mom come to a parentage of conference or when you're going to college meet with the coach that's going to coach you, the offensive coordinator of the head coach and maybe the quarterback coach, hell, even introduce themselves to John Harbaugh and Ozzie Newsom when you get drafted. It's another thing to have them negotiating the biggest contract, potentially you'll ever sign. And one of the bigger contracts in the biggest sports league's history, that seems to me like not only terrible business,

but awful decision making. We need to separate the emotion in this and get someone in there that just knows what they're doing. Whether you want to stay on the Ravens or not, if you want to leave the Ravens, you know what Drew Rosenhouse and guys like Tom Condon have the access to do? Call the other teams. Not just their GM and their head coach. They're fucking owners. So if you do want to get traded, you know how many guys, Drew Rosenhaus has got traded over the years? Why?

Because he knows everybody. He can get the ball rolling. And this situation doesn't seem like it's getting any better anytime soon. And it's honestly just kind of sad. A couple other things. Austin Echler, you know, wants a new deal. He has been very productive from a touchdown standpoint, but he's never going to be, you know, an alpha between the tackles running back. He's really more of a scat back. Now, he has a lot of

touchdowns these last two years, but looking at his contract, I think he's kind of properly paid. Like nobody, people hesitate giving Sequin Berkeley $10, $11 million. He makes $6.25. Maybe someone would give you $7, 7.5. But I think in his mind, because his touchdown production, and he catches the ball a lot, he views himself probably like, third. 14, $14 million player. That's never happening, ever. It's a good example. They gave him and his agent the right to look out there, see if you can negotiate a trade and get a bigger contract. Guess what? They couldn't. The NFL is a lot like real estate. It's all based on comps. And running backs are not getting enormous money. And when you're a running back under a long-term contract, which he is

going in the last year of deal, people aren't just itching to give you a third contract. even though Austin Echler is a really good player. I like Austin Echler. He could play for my team any day. At around a $6, $7 million number. You know, we start talking $10.11. I'll find someone else. Cam Newton.

I didn't quite know what to make of it. You know, just him working out of the pro day, which, you know, for somewhat of his stature is basically never happens. And then I text a buddy who went to the pro day, he said, Cam's brother was working out of the pro day. He ran a 4-9. not an NFL prospect, but he thought the big reason Cam Newton worked out this pro day, showing support with his brother, getting some more buzz for the pro day.

I know he made a lot of hype videos. There's a lot of stuff going out there. But like one thing he said, one thing Cam Newton used to have four or five years ago is just one of the strongest arms we've ever seen. And the one thing that I was told by boots on the ground is, you know, the arm's still good. But it's not like, holy shit. Is that Josh Allen, you know, 2.0? Those days are done. And it might have been because the shoulder was hurt.

He still has a powerful arm. But the reason Cam Newton was so explosive was the dual threat. And listen, I would have no problem bringing him into camp. The problem is, and I heard Coward talking about this, you know, you like guys that aren't going to start to kind of fly under the radar. You know, you like guys to just kind of blend in. That's not exactly Cam's deal. And I'm not saying he got along in New England.

I think he's a good teammate. Everyone likes him. He works really hard. but it's hard to have a backup quarterback who is more famous than your starter. And Cam Newton would immediately be more famous than like 90% of the starters. Last but not least, the Jets traded Elijah Moore, which feels like, you know, kind of the damn opening to what will inevitably be the Aaron Rogers trade, getting more draft capital.

They clearly have signed a bunch of wide receivers. McCull Hardiman, obviously they got Garrett Wilson from last year. They still have Corey Davis. they signed Luzard. I always like Elijah Moore. It's been kind of a rocky road with him there. Remember last year he asked for a trade, even though he hadn't done anything,

which as the season went on, you kind of understood, like I wouldn't want to play with Zach Wilson either, but now he's on the Browns, which, let's face it, any Browns fan listening to this has to agree. Playoffs are bust this year. You don't have to win the division,

but anything less than a playoff berth. When you have a $230 million quarterback, you got Miles Garrett, you got Amari Cooper, you got Nick Chub, you got a good offensive line, is going to feel pretty terrible. I think there is a ton of pressure this year on the Browns

to be a 10-11 win team and to be playing in January. Anything less, obviously the coach is probably getting fired, but I think we can talk about one of the most disappointing operations in recent memory, given how much they traded for Deshawn Watson. And honestly, some of this is on Deshawn Watson. I am somewhat of a pass last year, even though he was horrendous. Are you ever going to be good again? Are you just super rich and kind of average and suck now?

and I don't know the answer to that. But I do, for the most part, I'm never that intrigued by the Browns. They haven't done that much for me. I'm pretty fascinated by them this year. I'm excited to just kind of watch their operation, watch Deshawn, watch this offense, see if their defense can be, I mean, their run defense last year was beyond, I mean, it was an embarrassment.

It was really, really bad. So if they're just solid there, the problem is the division's tough, man. The Bengals, as Burroughs said, long as I'm alive, our windows wide up. open. He's right. The Steelers who we learned last year never bet against them, even if they got Kenny Pickett. Because as they came on last year, they were

playing really well at the end of the season. I think a lot of people are going to pick them to be a wildcard type team. So it's going to be tough sledding for the Browns and we'll have to stay on Aaron Rogers' watch. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing

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I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment,

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Hope is here. gambling help line MA.org or call 800-327-50-50 for 24-7 support MA. Call 1-8-7-7-8 Hope N-Y or text Hope N-Y. 467-369 N-Y Fandua is offering online sports wagering in Kansas

under an agreement with the Kansas Star Casino LLC. Call Win 800 Gambler or visit fanduel.com slash RG, Colorado, Iowa, Michigan, New Jersey, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Tennessee, Virginia. Win a hundred next step. Or text, next step. 2-533-4-2 Arizona, 1-88-7-8-8-9-7-7. Or visit ccpg.org slash chat.

Connecticut, 1-800-9 with it, Indiana. 1-800-5-22-470-470 or visit KSgamblinghelp.com, Kansas, 1-8777-7-0. Stop, Louisiana. Visit wwww-W-W-MD Gamblinghelp.org. Maryland, 1-800, 522, 4700, Wyoming, or visit www. www.1-800 gambler.net, West Virginia. Okay, let's dive into the mailback. At John Middlecop is the Instagram, fire in those DMs wide open all the time, fire in whenever you want to. On Instagram, honestly, it's sad too much. I'd like to get your take on why almost every professional sports athlete

always takes the most money they can instead of taking winning into consideration. In a group text with a few friends, we were discussing the wasted talent of Mike Trout. If he was playing for a perennial contender and bringing home championships, he'd go down as one of the greatest players ever. Instead, he will be a footnote

as one of the best statistical players ever, but not really a true champion or goat. Brady took less to win a championship and we'll probably reflect back on his career with taking less was the right decision. I understand football as a salary cap. Yeah, so this is basically a Mike Trout question. Hot take.

I watched the WBC Championship, Otani Motus ass down. Is Mike Trout closer to James Hardin than he is, Steph Curry? Even if I put Mike Trout on like the Yankees or the Dodgers or the Cardinals, obviously he's really good and he put up numbers, but is he like, I mean,

are we talking a little overrated? a little overrated. He's obviously playing on a team where he's not even remotely close to the best player anymore. Now, you could argue show Hey Otani, and I would. The most talented baseball player ever. He throws 100.

He's an ace, and he can hit 45 home runs. Like, never seen that before, never seeing that again. It'd be like, you know, we got this prospect in the NFL draft. We think he's kind of like Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes is a quarterback. And I would, he's got a little like, Fred Warner, Luke Keeckley to him. He can play defense too. He'd be like, number one overall. So it's just, I think I'm with you in baseball. In football, you know, he signed a $400 million contract. He was already worth a stupid amount of money. I'm with you. Should have gone to the Phillies,

should have gone somewhere where his games matter. It sucks. He plays in just an irrelevant organization, an irrelevant team. But yeah, that's what he chose. You know, Aaron Judge, you know, Trey Turner, These guys are all signing with really good teams. Obviously, Judge didn't leave. But I hear you. I completely agree. In football, a little more difficult just because your career is so short, you know, you can't like, if someone pays you $10 million more than the next guy, even if it's total over three or four years,

it's hard to turn it down because at any moment your career can end. And in the NBA, the team that you play for has such an advantage of extra years on your contract. but in baseball for sure. Especially like, if you're really good at baseball immediately, you start going to arbitration, you become really rich pretty quickly. So to not hit free agency, Mike Trout won.

Again, hot take, little overrated, little overrated. And maybe some of that is pushed back because the analytical elites have told me for, you know, five years that he's the greatest thing since Mickey Mantle. And again, good player.

I'm not acting like he's some scrub. But I watched him on a, team full of former MVP's like, yeah, he's the last guy to want up of like the top five guys. Question for the mailbag. Lions are having one of the best off seasons I've seen in their history and you can feel it in the city and all their fans, but the motto that haunts us, SOL, same old Lions after last year in the offseason so far, what are your thoughts? I think you guys are going to be pretty good, you know?

I think as long as Jared Goff keeps playing at a solid level, your offense is pretty stacked, right? I mean, your offensive line is awesome. Swift is good. You could easily draft a running back. Your offensive weaponry at wide receiver is fantastic. Your defensive line, you know, you're going to have a chance to draft a guy high. Who knows, you could draft Jaylon Carter to go on with Aden Hutchinson. Your secondary is much improved. One thing that's going to be fascinating, though, for the Lions, you know, they kind of jumped a step. Like, last year they were competitive, didn't make the playoffs, but it was an awesome story. they played excellent the second half of the season.

Now with Rogers, we think being gone, everybody. And I mean, everybody is going to pick them to win the division. So it's not like, you know, we think we can be pretty good. It's like, no, you are going to be statistically, I think on all these gambling websites, Fandul, they have the best odds to win the division. So how they handle that is going to be fascinating.

I'm bullish on them because I think Aidan Hutchinson's a star. The USC wide receivers are stud. anytime you got a good offensive line and keep building the defensive line like that's where you win the NFL. I've heard you mention you would go in the dark room Rogers went to. I wanted to recommend a float tank to you.

It's sensory deprivation tank you float in. I recommend two hours and you achieve the similar effect as a dark room. It's quite the experience. When I said I'd go in the dark room, it's more I understand the dark room. Not that I want to and probably will, but I'm not going to talk shit about them.

I'm glad you gave me a better alternative than only last two hours. I would definitely do the float. I need more time where it's just me and my thoughts. I'm very, very guilty of first thing in the morning in the office, headphones, TV on, just noises, noises, constant noises. I listen to obviously a lot of podcasts. You know, TVs are always on. And that does not even know sports related.

But it's just a lot of noise. Sometimes clarity comes. comes in the silence and in the calm. And I don't achieve the calm and the silence very often. I'm very, I'm very aware of it, but doesn't mean I do a good job of getting into it. I'm reaching out because I haven't watched your podcast,

because I have watched your podcast talking about being an NFL scout and how I want to achieve to be a professional or college coach, scout or even a GM. I myself am a high school coach for football and basketball at age 20 and a sophomore at college at, I think this is University of Kansas, says KU, so the Jayhawks. I want to get involved as much as possible and start as early as possible. I'm sure you may know about the Scouting Academy online courses. I'm planning on taking it, hoping it will get me started and learn more than what I know. I am also in a spot where I can be an athletic scout for a national prospect ID to help me as well.

I just would love to get to know in these what would be helpful advice. I can only speak from my experience and what worked for me. You have in your backyard where you're going to school. I went to Cal Poly. And my career started helping out the Cal Poly football team. We're D1AA and not very good. You are at the University of Kansas, which obviously historically is not a very good football program.

You got a real coach and your team is good. I would do everything humanly possible to get involved with a football program. recruiting, you know, coaching, whatever angle you want to do, go there and just say like, hey, when I'm not doing schoolwork, I will help you out. That is an incredible, and you know the best part about it is it's a Power 5 program, but it's not like Oklahoma or Texas where kids are lined up out the door to try to do it. So you might have a natural point of differentiation. There might not be many on student helpers like banging down the door to work for University of Kansas football. So that's what I did. I worked for the school that I was attending's program. And that was

my end and it changed my life. You're at a school much bigger and plays much higher level competition. And as a coach who feels like a guy's going places. I love the podcast. I wanted to ask you your thoughts on the chiefs and their wide receiver situation. Should they go after DeAndre Hopkins? Obviously financially, they're not paying him what he would be paid. I would, you know, are his best days behind him. So under no circumstances can I trade one of my first couple picks for a guy now who'd be on his third team, who'd be on as like, you know, it's weird because he signed a short-term deal, but his fourth contract, even though he would immediately be good for the chiefs.

I think the chief's got a pretty special culture going there. And it doesn't feel like Hopkins, unless they can get for nothing. And I don't see why other teams that are a little more desperate, like, are they really that desperate? Chaco's a good player. They still got Kelsey. I would imagine they're going to draft. I bet they draft the tight end in this draft. They drafted Skymore last year.

Who did they sign someone already? I feel like I'm drawing a blank. It let juju walk. Yeah, maybe they would take him for cheap. When I say cheap, like he's not a guy that's used to not making much money. And the Cardinals aren't just going to give him away. so could you get him for a third round pick and have him redo his deal? Kind of feels like that's their deal.

Like I can't see them giving up their first round pick. Maybe I'm too low on Hopkins, but because he is when he plays. I mean, regardless if he doesn't practice, if he's banged up, if he's slow, fucking guy produces, you know, you just throw the ball into his vicinity. And I like that type player. But those guys, you know, are somewhat risky, I would say when they can't really run at all. what do you say a successful year for the Colts would look like? New head coach, a potential rookie quarterback,

not to mention a different week one starting quarterback. I don't know what to make of this upcoming year. You know, I'd say for the last several years, your expectations have been pretty high and rightfully so. Playoffs are bust. I think you've got to roll it back a little bit. Can whoever they draft, right, assuming that they're going to draft a quarterback,

can that guy play and show signs like he can be a legit starting quarterback? And, you know, your talent and your team's good enough that you shouldn't suck too bad. But rookie head coach, I don't know. I would go into it like, we're no longer a playoff team. Can we just be really competitive and fun, entertaining, and find our quarterback? That's what I would be looking for. Because it's been devastating, right? Two years ago when you blew in Jacksonville, and rightfully so.

And the week before to the Raiders. And last year was just, you know, the year you guys got the, the number one pick for Andrew Luck. Peyton with the next surgeries, it was somewhat understandable. I know it hurt because you were so used to being so good. But like while the season was going on, it's like, yeah, Peyton Manning's fucking necks broke. What do you guys expect? Payton Manning goes down. I'm sorry, you're screwed. And it led you to Andrew Luck. I think this year was much more like what is going on, especially after trading for, you know, Matt Ryan, which was just an utter disaster. I mean, it really was.

I mean, that's an all-time we'd like that tradeover. Chargers fan here. How do you think the Echler situation will play out? I think he plays out his contract for the Chargers this season after no team offers significant trade compensation. My fellow Charger fans need to understand that all sides are right to have their positions. I'm in agreement.

I get why Echler views himself like, do you see my numbers? You see how many touchdowns I score? How am I not worth 10 plus million? problem is you're just not. Echler is right to be upset. Six million the last two years. He's been leading the league in scrimmage touchdowns by a lot. He's been a productive fucking guy.

He's a good player. He's a really good player. Benefits from the circumstances. They don't have any other running backs. Their wide receivers get hurt a lot. So, you know, Herbert throws him the ball. And he's a fantastic, you know, receiving running back. I would, I said this earlier.

I'll say it again. Echler can play for my team any day of the week. And twice on Sundays at a reasonable number. I can pay him $7 million. I can't be paying Austin Echler $11 or $12 million. I just can't do it. I mean, one of the issues the charges have had, they haven't had a big back, a lot like the bills.

So I don't know. I don't think any team is extending Austin Echler at $11 million a year. I don't think it's possible. The only way Echler can get the money that I think he kind of wants would be if someone had a lot of cap space, and they just give him like a one year deal, like one year 12 million. And for him, that might make sense. But I can't see him getting a multi-year deal.

I think Juju and Gaseki are huge. And honestly, if we don't land a true number one wide receiver this year, I'm not worried. This is the Patriots. Okay. Yeah, they signed Juju and they signed Gaseki. I know you're not a fan of Mac Jones. I've gone up and down on him myself.

I think he'll prove everyone wrong this year and look like his old Alabama cell. But if he doesn't, what would be your move next for the quarterback of the New England Patriots? Well, Max going into his third year. So if you guys miss the playoffs, let's say he has a solid year, looks like a poor man's Kirk Cousins, he's going to get another year.

And then I think the offseason question will be like, we're not picking up his fifth year option, but he's not going anywhere. His trade value is not much. You're not going to suck enough to ever draft the high quarterback. I think you're just kind of in the boat with this guy going up the river for a couple more seasons. good or bad. I mean, unless it's had an all-time disaster season and somehow, which I think is impossible with Belichick, you have in a top pick, you draft another quarterback.

But I think Mac Jones is going to be your quarterback for the next two years. So I think you got to judge him that way. Now, I think the question is how well he plays this year and that will factor into does he get his fifth year option picked up. I would say as of the day, probably, yeah, but, you know, 17 more games. See how he does. what do the Packers do after Aaron Rogers to the Jets deal is done? What do they do going forward? Who should they draft? Should the Packers change the scheme? Sorry, John.

I'm from Milwaukee and I'm sure sick of the Rogers news. Well, as of recording this, I don't know the trade compensation. So assuming, you know, do they get the 13th overall pick? Do they get two seconds? To me, once they find out where they are in the draft, you know, in terms of the Jets compensation, then they can kind of figure it out. What I would do is try to get next year's compensation because of the quarterback. I basically get one year to try out Jordan Love, who I haven't read, I'm sure, I mean,

are they going to pick up his fifth year option? I would guess they do. I don't think you change the scheme at all. Jordan Love, athletic quarterback, big arm. I'm not saying he's Aaron Rogers, but he can do everything in theory that like Rogers is doing physically. I'm not saying that he's going to complete the passes. I'm just saying, like, you can run the Shanahan offense,

which ultimately the floor wants to do more than some of the, you know, shotgun, four or five wide that I think Aaron Rogers and rightfully so likes to do. If I was Aaron Rogers, I'd like being the shotgun too. You know, there's a reading Peyton Manning want to be the shotgun. I can see everything and I can complete every pass. But I think they get back to their roots of being looking much more like the 49ers, running zone, play action, a lot less just shotgun, spreading it out and just letting it rip.

So I would expect that. And I think really you just, the likelihood of Jordan Love being your next franchise quarterback, probably not high, right? When you just factor in, you've gone 30 years with two Hall of Famers. I mean, you just look the way the league works out. Usually there's a drop-off. But the 49ers, for example, when I was like in junior high, went from Joe Montana to Steve Young to Jeff Garcia.

And they were making the playoffs with Jeff Garcia. It was like a fringe pro bowler. If he can become that, you would fucking do cartwheels, you know, in the middle of winter down the streets in Milwaukee. But that's hard. You know, now they have good running backs on the team. They have, it looks like good young wide receivers. You could draft the tight end high. You know, you've drafted pretty heavily in defense the last three or four years.

Remember last year you drafted two defensive players in the first round. The one dude got kicked out of the Lions game. you have Kenny Clark, you have DBSs that you've drafted high. So yeah, I mean, I would be cautiously optimistic and just knowing that like Aaron Rogers is good as it gets. So it's going to be downhill from here. Just can we be competitive? Can we compete for a wild card spot? Or are we like a five or six win team?

And listen, I'm not, I don't have a crystal ball in front of me. I can't answer that question. I would say history, when stuff like this happens, you tend to be. closer to kind of a shitty team. But if you tell me right now the Packers win, they go 9 and 8, I'd say, I bet Jordan Love had a pretty solid year. And you'd be pretty optimistic of Jordan Love.

If you tell me he wins four or five games and say you got a disaster. If he's just the next coming of Aaron Rogers and you win 11, just fuck. Maybe Jesus was actually Vince Lamberti. I don't know. Appreciate everyone listening. Fire in those DMs at John Middlecough. And have a good weekend.

Adios. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.

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