The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 3 and Out - Combine Wrap: Jalen Carter Craziness, Combine ‘Risers and Fallers’ Fiction, Pre-Draft Dealmakinhg

Episode Date: March 6, 2023

John reacts to Combine Week, including if Georgia DE Jalen Carter could still be a Top 5 pick despite leaving mid-Combine to get processed in a Georgia for reckless driving charges connected with his teammate's death, why the idea of drastic post-Combine ‘Risers and Fallers’ is a media creation, and what NFL front offices are looking at as they prepare for the annual flurry of pre-draft deal making. Subscribe NOW and follow Middlekauff and The Volume on Twitter, Instagram and YouTube for the latest content. It's always FanDuel for the best wagering action! #volume See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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So, yeah, that's a little housekeeping. I know a lot of you guys ask me about that. This podcast, here's the setup for the week. This is going to be a combine heavy pod. Talk of the Jalen Carter situation, risers and fallers, and why that's such a stupid way to look at it. obviously Anthony Richardson, Bryce Young,

Will Evans talk to some of the quarterbacks, and then the decision maker's goal at the combine. With this is going to be combine heavy, and then on Tuesday's podcast, because I'm sure a bunch of news will happen Monday, be much more centered around the Lamar Jackson situation. Is he going to get non-exclusive tag, traded, car leaning toward the Jets?

What does that mean for Aaron Rogers? Could the Jets still trade for Aaron Rogers? Are the Raiders going to trade for Aaron Rogers? And we'll kind of dive more into some of these guys getting cut, traded franchise tag, Daniel Jones, Seek Juan Barkley. We will dive into the meat of that on tomorrow's show. So combine

today, more NFL free agency trade tag stuff on Tuesday and then obviously golf the players. Almost had my guy Hovlin was going to win me 15-Hundo and he pumped into the water on 16 but we'll have a big golf show on Wednesday and then we'll have probably another

podcast, another football podcast on Friday. Once we have all the information on, who knows, maybe Rogers and car situation will be figured out by the end of the week. That would be freaking awesome. So that's the plan here and we'll have a mailbag on Tuesday show at John Middlecough is the Instagram. Fire

in those DMs. Appreciate everyone that does. Put out a mailbag if you missed it because Sundays are busy, family, whatever. Put one out on Sunday. So there's a little content out there. Just grind it on the weekend. No big deal. I'm not asking for an applause here, but you know, just keeping the content flowing.

Yeah. So that's that's the plan for the week. But before we dive into the show, can I tell you about my friends at game time? Here's what I need to do. Grab your Apple iPhone, because I know you have one, they own the market. Go to your app store. Download the game time app because this is what you're going to need to do over the next several months. You're going to want to go outside. You're going to want to go to a baseball game. You're going to want to go to the NCAA tournament. You're going to NHL playoffs, NBA playoffs, you're going to want to go to an event, comedy, concerts, you name it. And when you do, I got you cover. Download the app. And when you sign up, use the promo code

John, that's J-O-H-N, and get $20 off. You want to go to a concert? You want to go see your favorite musician this summer? Do it on me. I got you covered, man. $20 off. Can't beat it. Comedy show, Can't beat it. promo code John, J-O-H-N. I plan on going to a lot of events. Get some sun. Get some vitamin D. Get outside. Promal code John at the GameTime app. Download it right now. Okay, this is going to be pretty combine heavy. And I talked about it last podcast and I wanted to hit it on a little more because I think it's pretty nuts. It really hit me this weekend on like Saturday night was having a few cocktails. And the number one prospect at, at the NFL Combine, showed up to the Combine in Indianapolis,

like everyone else, was charged with a misdemeanor, left the Combine, went to jail, posted Bond, and returned. Like, I'm sorry, that's fucking insane. And when I talk to people in the league, they kind of laughed. Not because it's funny. It's obviously not. But because it's nuts, it's insane.

That does not happen. Usually when you check into, I don't know, the biggest job interview of your life, you wouldn't like to have to leave in the middle of it to, I don't know, go check into jail. Now, I see a lot of this, and I've been on this hill for a long time and I'll be on this hill until I die. Is the NFL PR optics, it's all kind of bullshit? Like, I don't even know what bad PR means anymore. Like, we're not all reading the paper. Like, those days are dead.

The way we all consume media, I could find 10 people that are 33 years old, 35 years old, 28 years old. We all consume it a little differently. You know, in 1992, my dad, his buddy, his dad, they all consume the same shit. The newspaper, the local news. Those days are dead. So big stories are big stories no matter what. But let's face it, it's a little fragmented. Now, the owner might go to one news source, but we don't as consuming.

or as general managers or as coaches or whatever. And as we've seen time and time again, that stuff is overrated if you win and if you're good at sports. And this is the hill I will always die on. Pro sports is not about teaching life lessons. It's not about some moral obligation to society. When you're the coach, when you're the general manager, you're judged on one thing and one thing only, winning games. And winning trumps everything. It's why talent historically, has trumped at all. Why talented players get more opportunities than average players than below average players. Welcome the society. That's the way any business works. But the reality with Jalen Carter is he's an elite prospect. He would be an elite prospect in any draft of my 38 years of life.

It's a big time player, big time talent. It would be hard for him if he's on a field to not be above average, let alone if he just comes close to maximizing his talent, he'd be a high-end player. But what happened this weekend, and I think some of the questions with this player, bring into mind is, do you want to deal with the person and the uncertainty? I went and I looked at the 2022, all pro teams, first team and second team. And my main takeaway is basically every guy, super high character, no issues. The only guy who I would consider like a Hall of Fame talent and the guy that's going to be

on that team every single year, that you might question some stuff would be Miles Garrett who had the incident on the field with the helmet. As Shefty said, assault. And, you know, the car issue this year where he was going, who knows how fast. But overall,

I don't think anyone views him that poorly. Every team in the league would gladly take him on the team. But the majority of players I would say skew high end, high level, high character. I could remove them from the National Football League and put them in your business, in my business, in any business, and they would be successful.

Typically, that's what high character, highly motivated, ambitious, focused human beings do. And right now currently in the league, it's full of those guys. So the high end players, from Aaron Donald to Patrick Mahomes to Travis, Kelsey to Fred Warner, just look at the team. DeVante Adams, you're not getting low-level guys. You're getting human beings you can trust. Now, this is the hard part about the draft.

In any sport, team sport, you're dealing with young men. And I can speak to, just like many, the majority of my audience is male, can speak in your early 20s, late teens. You know, you're probably a little different than what you become in your mid to late 20s in your 30s. We grow, we mature, slower than, you know, women, right? But this is, most of us do not get $40 million guaranteed coming out in this situation. So when these organizations are thinking about drafting a guy, one, you're investing a ton of money in the player.

And two, you're investing in the person. And don't get it twisted. He has scared people, not scared people off. Not that he's going to drop like a rock, but simply that this last. week was nuts. He was involved potentially. No one's calling, you know, homicide or murder, but where people lost their lives, where he was in the other car. And clearly, no one in the league from, I did a little digging, knew about this till it broke to all of us, a situation that we all knew about, you know, a month ago or whatever. Did he leave the scene? Like, people are

asking a lot of questions. And there were already questions about him before this situation. Not crazy, not huge, but questions. So this situation, when you're investigating, really high pick and a guy that has all pro talent, look at the all pro team. Not many guys that you have to worry about. You could argue really one or two, max. And I just think this is a situation that you can't quantify. This is the hard part about the draft. You know, how do you know what he'll become? you would have to feel good about your unit, right? Who your D-line coach is, who your defensive coordinator is, who your veteran defensive linemen are.

If you don't have a situation like that, then it would be hard for me as a general manager to make the pick. You know, and he's just going to be fastening. He's not going to drop to like the sixth round. That's not what I'm saying. But a quote-unquote drop for a player, you know, going to seven to ten to six would be pretty nuts. and this situation is going to be one of the bigger situations in the league

talked about for all those teams that are drafting really high. Another thing that you see on social media after the combine is like risers and fallers. And I saw Jim Nagy, who runs the senior ball, who's scouted in the NFL for a long time, who just knows the business, had a good tweet replying to someone about, I think Danny Connell basically tweeted, who obviously played in the league. that this is the time of year when

when general managers fall in love with players in shorts and t-shirts. And Nagy's response was basically, no, I think that's more of a media thing than a team thing. And I think he's 100% correct. The teams that I know of make you lock in your grade

and this is everybody probably beside the general manager who, you know, not everyone has access to their you know, their evaluations on a yearly basis. But from your college director to your college scouts, their grades are locked in in the middle of January, typically before the senior bowl. And then because a lot of the first and second round picks are underclassmen,

and you don't know, especially now with COVID in the fifth year, and it's been a little confusing, you have to have those grades. And when I say grades, not most teams don't do like first, second, third, round picks. They do based on the league. Every team, I mean, there are some teams that obviously have the same system as other teams, but you have to have your grade, whether that's, you know, 62 or, you know, however you do it as a team done before this event. And it's locked in stone. So this notion, and I use the combine and the draft typically, I like to compare it to the housing market because there's two separate ways to look at it. There's how good the player can

be or is going to be, and then what you have to allocate via your draft resources to acquire that player. And the combine is basically like, listen, I've been someone who's been looking at houses for a year now. And I know a lot of people listening to this, you know, I've either bought a house the last couple of years or looking to upgrade or looking to buy their first house. And when you go, let's just pick a number, a million dollar home. And you put a bit on it, you get the house. Well, obviously then there's a process, right? And once the inspection takes place and you get the inspection, which I would kind of relate to the combine, you kind of get to find out what's wrong or what's, you know, what needs to be looked at for the house. Sometimes it's degenerate roof, got some issues with the molding, got some issues in the bottom with the attic, for those of you that live in the Midwest.

Got to avoid those tornadoes. But typically, once you get the inspection and you made a, the house was on the market for one point. 05, and you offer a million dollars in March 5th, 2023. Because the market slowed down a little bit, you get it. It's pending. Well, if that inspection comes back a little weird, the house is not going to go, well, now you're going to get it for $500,000. Maybe if something weird happens, you can end up getting it for $950,000 or $967,000,

but there's not some precipitous drop. And that is the same with the combine. Most of these guys, like Anthony Richardson, biggest riser of the combine, was he really? Most scouts and your most important guys, your college directors, and typically a lot of GMs see the SEC players throughout the year. Why? Usually the most talented guys. He was, especially after week one at Utah, one of the marquee early season games of the year, was incredible. then you factor in he's six foot four, I know he weighed in like 245 pounds.

He's a very intriguing prospect. Huge arm can run. Those measurables put you in the mix if you can play, being the number one overall pick. He had that after week one. Now, clearly the season goes off the rails, but he was in everyone's vernacular, in everyone's mind,

and being talked about the moment that game happens. And clearly from a physical standpoint, he has top five level overall traits. Now, the tape, clearly you couldn't watch him and go, this is a can't miss, no-brainer star in the NFL. But the game has changed a little bit, and Josh Allen did that to everybody, where you cannot have that much success in college for whatever reason

and have the physical characteristics and come to better coaching in the league and fire like a rocket chip and become a star quarterback. We've literally seen it. So this notion that he will, was a huge riser, he was already viewed as a very highly intriguing prospect because of his physical attributes. Now, part of this combine, like, I got news for you. Everyone knew he was big, strong, and was going to run fast. That's not shocking. Where he was ultimately going to, quote,

unquote, rise would be medically getting checked if everything is good, and then meeting with the teams. Now, obviously, when you meet with the teams of the combine, you get like 15 minutes, it's just a initial meeting. But that meeting where the coach and the GM get to talk to him for the 15 minutes, then we'll lead into you flying him to your facility, which I would imagine a guy like Anthony Richardson is going to fly to a ton of facilities. Why? Because he was a very intriguing and highly valued prospect.

There's a difference between being a highly valued prospect and then a really, really good player. All these guys are prospects. We don't know how they're going to turn out once they're in the league. We think we know, but every single year we see guys that can't miss, miss, and guys that this guy's going to suck, make it. That's why a lot of fifth, sixth, seventh rounders become legit players. Brock Purdy was the last pick in the draft. Niners didn't lose when he was in the game until Kyle Shanahan blocked us on Reddick with backup tied in.

And ripped his elbow, but that's for another conversation. So this notion that people at the combine, when they have really good, good combines or kind of poor combines fluctuate like a guy goes from a second rounder to a six rounder. No, that's not possible. The only way that potentially happens is if the medical check is something like the doctor goes, I would not draft this guy. And you pull the trigger late in the draft because you're like, you know what? If we just get them one contract, what the hell?

We're in the house analogy. If something is a debacle, you just end up not buying the house. You just pull out, right? But this other notion that, like, guys that, oh, he ran slow, most good scouts and most good front offices know the guys are not going to run fast that don't run fast. You typically know. But if you think the guy's a really good player, you go, listen, this guy ran a 4, 6, 8, he's an outside wide receiver. Maybe we can move him to the slot. I still love him at the end of the second early in the third round.

I wouldn't take him in the first round. But most teams don't have these guys viewed that highly to begin. with. Now, there are always some swing guys, but being the difference of going like pick 25 and pick 38 really isn't that big of a deal. It's always funny because if you're drafted, you know, it's like, God, they got him early in the second round. Well, there are only 31 first round picks this year. I always find it funny that like somehow going in the second round makes you a scrub. You know, it's Google the history of the league. Like, it's hard to go in the first round. There aren't that many players. If we could redo it after the fact, of course, D.K., Debo, and A.J. Brown would have gone

in the top 15 picks. But like all those guys went in the second round have become really good players, Deshaun Jackson, Shady McCoy. We can go on a long list of guys that go really late. And it's like Bryce Young, who is the best quarterback in this class. If you watch college football, really the last two years, but definitely this year with the other guys, C.J. Stroud, Will Levis, Anthony Richardson, Bryce Young's the best player. Everyone knew he was small. So did he put on a little weight because he had some protein shakes and ate some extra cheeseburgers? Surely he did.

But whether he was 204 or 199, now don't get me wrong, it helps a little bit to have the number two in front of his name. But these GMs, these scouts, every single one goes through Alabama. Every single one. the amount of people that go to the SEC championship game, which two years ago, he was awesome, obviously against Georgia and the national championship game last year against that Georgia team. I mean, that was an NFL game.

So no one shocked that he's not six foot three, right? I get the weight is a question that we ask on the outside. But, you know, I think as long as he wasn't 182 pounds, and most of these people have been doing their research that whatever he weighs in today, what does he play at the last couple of years? If that number is 187 or is that number 197? Because as you get older, you put on some muscle,

you know, you just naturally gain a little weight, especially when you're a smaller, skinnier guy. And the question that he has, can he last in the NFL? No one can answer that question, because you can't quantify it. You do not know. No one knows.

Because if I told you right now, Bryce Young can be a 10-year-stron will never miss a game, it would be the biggest lock ever that he would go number one. But he might get hurt. No one knows. I don't. You don't. That's why drafting is difficult and why people tend to like the bigger quarterbacks over the smaller guys.

And never forget, Russell Wilson, it's not as much about height. It's about being slight. Russell Wilson, who was one of the more durable players in the league for almost a decade, and really his injury a couple years ago, was the mallet finger. he's thick. I've been to several games where Russell either played the Raiders or the 49ers over the years. Russell's built like a little tank. Kyler, you know, is much faster than Bryce and gets hurt a lot. Now, Bryce doesn't run like Kyler does. Like running is a big part of Kyler's game. You know, a little Lamar Jackson-ish. Bryce is more of a behind, yeah, I would say line of scrimmage pocket.

Now, he scrambles to throw, a little more like probably Deshawn Watson. but I think Bryce, a better prospect and Deshawn Watson was coming out of Clemson. The problem is he's just much smaller in terms of height. But, you know,

it seems like he saw pretty okay behind the line of Alabama. And last time I checked, Alabama ain't rolling out six foot offensive linemen. But this notion that we learned a lot about these guys, height, weight, speed,

like, now, I think most of these teams had a pretty good idea, who was big, who was small, who was fast, who wasn't fast. Now, some crazy things came out in terms of the interviews or the medical, that's where you get a big pendulum swing on a guy's value in the draft. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clipper Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

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Because new customers get a no-sweat first bet up to $1,000. That's bonus bet back if your first bet doesn't win. Just download the Fandual Sportsbook app. It's safe, secure, and super easy to use. Listen, you can bet on the game any way you want. Straight up, aka Money Line, point spreads, team totals. You can also do player props, whether it's points, rebounds, assists, covers it all. And so many more exclusive bets, likes two times three.

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which is, you know, right around the corner. That's what this week was most about for the general managers. Why? Because of time. Because in about, I'm recording this on March 5th. So when 10 days from the day, free agency begins. You can officially sign guys. Their entire week, the general managers and the contract negotiators, and a lot of them, you know, work hand in hand, are meeting with the agents of your players, of other players, and also other GMs. Never forget.

Remember where the Denver Broncos in Seattle figured out their trade last year at the combine when they were meeting secretly. So the amount of secret meetings going on right now is through the roof because you're constantly trying to figure out what players you want back on your own team that are free agents, how much they're going to cost, what free agents on other teams, guys that are going to be available here in the next week and a half, do you want and how much do they cost? And then talking to general managers and other teams about who's available. Could I trade for this player? do you want this player on my team trying to figure out your own roster salary cap and configure it before

you know, free agency kicks off and obviously for the teams like the New York Giants, what was their main goal over the last five or six days? Figuring out how to get Daniel Jones under contract at a number that isn't outrageous. Why? So they can franchise tag

they're starting running back. Now, there's maybe a world where they don't franchise, like, I think you could franchise Seekwon Barkley and still figure out a contract with Daniel Jones, but I think Joe Shane and Brian Dayball say that's a pretty big risk we're not willing to take. But under no circumstances can I do some of these numbers that are floating around. What was the Jets number one job this week? Figuring out not the draft class because they've already been working on that all season long.

Figuring out how much is going to cost for Aaron Rogers. What is the price? if he's interested from his agent, what his status is in terms of where his mind is. Two, if we don't get Aaron Rogers, how much is Derek Carr going to cost? How many years does he want? How much guaranteed money?

What would it take to get a deal done? So if you're the Carolina Panthers, if you're the Indianapolis Colts, the Raiders don't have a quarterback under contract. Chase Garber's, I'm a cow bear fan or was a long time ago, but he doesn't count. So they got to figure out what are we going to do? Tom Brady's no longer gone.

Can we trade for Aaron Rogers? What would it cost? Do we have to get into a bidding war with the Jets? So a large percentage, Jalen Ramsey's on the block, all these teams that need corners that are interested. What would it cost? If I trade for him, then I need to talk to Jalen and Ramsey's agent. Will he just play on his existing contract?

Does he make a stink? Does he want a race? Does he want more guaranteed? Does he want his deal reworked? That's to me the number one goal. of the brass there. The scouts, the assistant coaches, to me, are getting to know, locked into the prospects. But the GMs, the decision makers, the head coaches, you know, there are dealing with the agents and figuring out the domino effect of everything.

Some teams have more pressing issues than others, i.e. the giants, i.e. the jets. And some teams are just probably working, you know, if you're Brett Veach, can we work out a contract with Orlando Brown? What would it cost us to get back juju? but we're not the end of the world on any of this stuff. Can we sniff around Jalen Ramsey? What would it cost us? You know, we're always big game hunting. But there are some teams like if you're a GM, like the job on the line.

And then there are these new GMs, Arizona. I guess new coaches, there weren't many new GMs. But a lot of new operations. So if I'm the Texans, if I'm the Colts, if I'm the Panthers, some of these players on our team, Do they not fit our scheme anymore? We have guys that are good players. Do we want to get rid of them?

Because it doesn't make sense to keep them. Can we save some money trading them to another team? If so, what can our starting linebacker get on the open market? Can we get a third round pick for them? Can we trade a lineman who's just not going to fit the scheme that our offensive coordinator wants to run? Does this guy not make sense for our operation anymore? Can we make a trade? Can we make a deal?

So that to me, over the next couple days, that information is going to come flying out. And that, to me, intrigues me. Because the draft, we still got a couple months. A lot of these players are going to make trips to these individual teams to spend a night with them. Get on the board. Go to dinner. Talk about life.

Meet with the owner. So it's a little more serious when Anthony Richardson visits you if you're the bears, the Colts, the Raiders, whoever. But right now, some of those teams, like, if you're the Raiders, what are we doing a quarterback? We have to get a veteran on board. is just Jared Sidham or are we going to make a play for Aaron Rogers? Do we need to get Jimmy Garaplo? Who else is interested in Jimmy Garoppel? How much Jimmy Garoppos are going to cost? Are we going to give Jimmy Garapal a multi-year deal? Can we just get them like one year's $23 million?

Do I want to give Jimmy Garaple a multi-year deal? If I was a GM, I would not. If I'm the Jets, well, I like Derek Carr a lot, but do I got to give them like $100 million? Or can I get them for like three years, you know, $80 million? Now, they probably already have a pretty good gauge of what it's going to cost. but that to me is the most fascinating part, having been to the combine many times, just seeing agents and the decision makers always kind of together. And obviously they're talking about deals because that's the business of this league. Getting guys under contract, getting rid of contracts, figuring out your salary cap,

and put the pieces to the puzzle. Because you also, especially some of these teams that have high picks, you have to have room on your cap for the guys that you're going to draft. You know, so you can't just go to zero in the next month. Like you have to have space to draft players, you know, especially some of the guys high. They don't cost what they once did. The guys like, remember Sue and Stafford got some of these just outrageously high contracts. They're still expensive.

They get four-year guaranteed contracts with large signing bonuses. Some of those signing bonuses, you know, first five picks, I think, are like $25 to $30 million. So it's going to be, I'm fired up for this next week before we get into. free agency. Appreciate everyone listening. See you guys in a day. And let's rock and roll. Peace. Volume. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some

retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

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