The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 3 and Out - Cousins Can't; Pats' Survival Instinct; Niners' Chemistry; Cowboys Face Reality; Baker's Broken; Michael Thomas Dominance; Week 16 Recap

Episode Date: December 24, 2019

In this episode, Middlekauff reacts to the Packers MNF win over the Vikings, Kirk Cousins continued awfulness in big games; the Packers dominant defensive performance, why even a down New England is still a playoff threat, why the Cowboys are paying the price for not moving on from Jason Garrett last year. He also gives his biggest takeaways from a packed Week 16. Follow John on twitter @JohnMiddlekauff and go to theherdnow.com to find the latest content. Subscribe now! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise,

breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. Help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her.

What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, Wreck, my mama want you to weigh better. What? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was harmed.

you just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis come until he's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Happy Hanukkah. Happy whatever you're celebrating tonight. It's just a great time of year. You gotta love Christmas. You really do. Just finished watching the Monday night football game. About to go in on Kirk Cousins. The Green Bay Packers played probably their most complete game of the year.

It might be a little strong because their offense wasn't that great. But Zadaria Smith, they clinched the NFC North. They're now locked into a home field buy. If the Niners win, they'll be the two seed. If the Niners loses Seattle, they'll be the two seed. or the one seat, excuse me. So they're going to be a one or two seat. Pretty remarkable.

Pretty freaking remarkable. First year, Matt LaFleurre. Though, we'll dive into their defense is kind of carried up in big spots for sure. And then so much to talk about. The Saturday games, Patriot Bills, 49ers Rams, obviously the Cowboys Eagles, Michael Thomas breaks a record, Baker Mayfield, can't hit water from a boat. We'll go around the league and then, like always, at John Middlecock, is my Instagram handle, and we do the Middle Coff mailbag, slide up in those DMs, same as my

Twitter handle, but my DMs and my Instagram are open. It's how we interact. I got a bunch of questions I'll answer at the NsB. I try to keep it short, but the podcast, there's just so much stuff to talk about. It might be a little longer. So you got all week to listen. But let's start with Monday night. And to me, the big story, obviously the Packers clinch.

We'll dive into them here in a second. But when you sign an 86, $87 million contract, and you sign with a team that had just been to the NFC championship game, the expectations were enormous. Right or wrong. I mean, that's just the nature of being paid a lot of money. And in most professions, like to make $86 million, you got to be the CEO of the company.

Well, in sports, like, oh, yeah, quarterback, is he that good? Well, we think so. He's been franchised a couple times, but yeah, even the Redskins didn't really want him. We'll take them. and, you know, the part of free agency that you don't get when you sign a contract, when you're not a free agent, is you get a bidding process. And one thing that clearly helped Kirk Cousins and his agent did a really good job. Mike McCarthy liked the guy a lot.

Mike McCartney, excuse me. A friend of mine, he's tight with Kirk. It's made a lot of money with Kirk Cousins. It was open bidding. You know, it was them and the Jets and teams wanted them. The Niners were looming large in a year. if Jimmy Garoppolo hadn't got there, they were going to have options.

And they gave the guy basically $28 million a year, maybe it's 27 and a half. And here's a reality. He's just not that good. Like, he's good when, and when I say not that good, I mean, in what you're looking for. When you pay a guy that much money

and your goal is to win the Super Bowl, this guy's just not good enough. Is he good enough to win games and look sweet when everything's humming in the construct of the offense? Yes. But the reality is in the National Football League, a lot of plays happen outside of the play.

Can you improvise? And Kirk Cousins, who thinks he kind of can, whenever he tries to run around, well, he's a marginal athlete, and he can't make any plays outside of the pocket. That's just not him, especially on the run. If the play that is called from the offensive coordinator is perfect and he's got some great wide receivers,

he could look like Joe Freak in Montana. Most plays aren't like that, though. And tonight, I don't watch every Vikings game, though I've watched five or six this season start to finish. And I thought they were really, really good. Now, I've said I've been banging the drum. Delvin Cook is their best player. So when he's out, it changes them.

But even that being said, the Packers won this game by scoring 23 points. So you didn't need 35. Kirk Cousins was 16 of 31 for 122 yards. 122 yards. Beside two passes, a deep one to digs and a touchdown pass of Dix, he was atrocious. I mean, he looks like a bottom five quarterback in the NFL in games like tonight. He looked.

I just, I don't know how you shake this performance. I know the record, you can be like, well, wins and losses are not a quarterback stat. Yeah, in a vacuum, that's true. But in reality, quarterbacks get paid the most money because they have the most impact. You notice when players get injured, if they're not the quarterback, it does not affect the gambling line. When a quarterback misses a start or is questioning, will be hurt and you think the backup starting, the line changes dramatically. If Aaron Rogers is playing in a game, let's say they're a seven-point favorite,

you pull Aaron Rogers out of the game. They might be an underdog. It's the way this thing works. Aaron Rogers, who was just kind of average tonight, looks like he's in a different world than Kirk Cousins. Partly because he's athletic, he can move and make throws that Kirk Cousins can't even dream about making. And where the Vikings want to go, they want to beat teams like the Niners, they want to beat teams

like the Packers, they want to beat teams like the New York. Orleans Saints, they got no chance with this guy. None. The problem is, you know, in economics, you talk about the sunk cost, there is no sunk cost with him, you just got to write this thing out, and you've got to write it out more than likely. You know, depending on how this shakes out, they get the Saints in the first round. How would the Vikings go on the road? Let's assume the Niners win. The Niners are the one, the Packers are the two, the Saints are the three.

The Vikings are now locked in at number six. How can the Vikings, in this world that we all live in, go on the road in the Superdome? to beat that team. I don't even think it's possible on Kurt Cousin's best day, let alone the way he plays in big games. Because the way he plays in big games when everyone's watching, and you can make the argument baseball GMs love to doing this. They're analytical people. There is no such thing as pressure. That's bullshit.

That is just fake. That's just not true. You're like, large sample size. You take an individual sample size. Even in baseball, when you play in a playoff game as a baseball player. There is like, it's not an individual AB in some vacuum over the life of a season. It's 10 million people are watching you hit. The lights are on. You feel that as a human being. Kirk Cousin's not an idiot. It's Monday night football against the Green Bay Packers. I don't know exactly how many people watch. 15 million, 18 million, 12 million. A lot of freaking people, especially on a holiday week. We're all watching. And he crumbles every single time.

And tonight, there was a lot on the line. They win this week, they win next week, they still can win the division. He could be an AFC North champ. They could get potentially, you know, a couple home games. He didn't even get close. He was atrocious. I'm not even trying to be like, I'm all worked up just because I can't believe what I was watching. And then there was a shot in the middle of the third quarter that kind of got in on his eyes.

Like when you watch Rogers up down, even when he's moody, like he's always just, he never gets rattled. I don't see a guy that looks shook. Kirk Cousins, you could see it in his eyes. He looked like Chuck Lydell just caught him in the chin. It's like, is this guy terrified right now? What is going on? How is this happening? And then it just happened and happened and it kept snowballing

and snowballing and snowballing. And he throws for 122 yards at home on Monday night football. I'm the opposite of speechless, but that's insane. The guy sent an $87 million contract or $80. or whatever the number is, an astronomical amount of money. They showed Ziggy Wolf and Testore goes. You know, he's so proud of this stadium. And the stadium looks sweet.

They hosted the Super Bowl. But he's got to be thinking, I gave this guy all this money. And like any businessman, whether it's a dollar investment or an $85 million dollar investment. You're just looking for a little ROI. And the return on investment, especially if you're him,

you got to be thinking back to a couple years ago when you had Case Keenham on like a veteran minimum. deal. You're like the ROI on that guy and that team was infinitely better than what I'm getting out of this guy in this team because we're the sixth seed.

We're going to get bouncing the first round. I paid all this money thinking I was going to be a Super Bowl champ. I'm not going to sniff a Super Bowl with this guy. And there's nothing we can do. We're just stuck. And that's what the Vikings are. They're stuck. And when you look at the Green Bay Packers, I had multiple offensive coordinators tell me this over the course of the season. One of those is not Kyle Shanahan, because I don't

know how he'd believe this, he kicked Petten's ass. Then Mike Petten is one of the better defensive coordinators they face in the last couple years. We've forgotten because he bounced around, he went to Cleveland, a place where coaches kind of go to die. But now that they got him some good players, Preston Smith, Zadaria Smith,

that looks like, I don't know, Jason Taylor mixed with Terrell Suggs, mixed with uh, Zedaria Smith. Like, that was, that was a complete, That's just dominant of a performance

you'll see from a pass rusher you just won't find a better performance in what was on the line playing for a division championship on the road in Minnesota one of the most hostile environments in the league that's what badasses do they kick the shit out of the quarterback

when you're a pass rusher and Zadaria Smith I don't want that guy on my team because I didn't honestly know that much about them the last couple years of the Flacco Ravens I'm going to admit to something I didn't really watch that much I found them the most boring team in the league.

So I wasn't quite as familiar with Zadaria Smith, but having watched them a lot this season, he's one of the best players in the league. I mean, he's had a defensive player of the year type of season and what he's meant for that team, what he's met in Mike Petten's defense, how good Mike Petten has got these defensive backs playing. Both King and Jayor Alexander will come up and run support.

And then those guys on the front, Kenny Clark, I remember when Jim Moore Jr. recruited Kenny Clark to UCLA. Kenny Clark's dad was in jail. So on his recruiting visit, he went to jail to get the guy's blessing to, you know, sign him as a UCLA Bruin. The rest's history. Now he's, I think he has like 15 sacks or something. He's an ass kicker too. But Mike Petton and you got to give Goudicants and the Packers Brass credit.

They said, listen, Matt LaFleur, you're keeping this defensive coordinator. this part of the job. I mean, what was Matt going to say? No. Now, maybe he would have wanted to keep him no matter what. Well, he's smart to keep him. Because Petten, and now that they've got some pieces, hat-tipped to Gutikens, signing these guys this off-season, that defense, when they've played well this season,

and again, it's on a little bit of a scale because it's Kirk Cousins, has been Super Bowl level. Now, the one game that's kind of etched in my mind is that game against the 49ers is a little hard to shake. But I've seen them play well enough that you go, you usually don't play like that twice. So if they get them again, they got to go to Levi's, maybe in the conference championship.

Sign me up for that. And Aaron Rogers at the end of the day, his numbers don't look quite as good as they have in some of his prime years. I still would be terrified to play him in a big game. Him and Brady. And more Rogers in the fact that he can make plays out of nothing, his athletic ability,

his ability to scramble outside of the pocket and then just throw beavis and darts. and when Devante's right, and I'm biased, I mean, he's a Fresno State guy, he's, we'll talk about Michael Thomas a little later, both those guys, you know, get knocked a little because they're slower, but they're winners, they're ballers, and Devante took Xavier Rhodes, who's one of the higher paid corners in the league to school tonight. He took him to the classroom, he sat him down, and he said, listen, this is what I'm going to do to you. I'm going to go in, I'm going to go out, I'm going to go deep,

and I'm going to whoop your ass all game long. And that's what 17 did. And when 17's right, he's a monster. I don't know if he's a top two or three wide receiver in the league, but he's definitely like a top six or seven receiver in the league. And when him and Rogers are on, that combination, it's deadly. I mean, we're talking, we're talking commando for my younger listeners. YouTube it.

Schwarzenegger on an island, him versus about a million guys. He won. Killed them all. That's what those two guys are doing. killing everyone in front of them. And the Packers, I would say when the Niners are right, they're better. I would even lean the Saints, but I would not discount this team as being able to, you know, to make some hay in the playoffs.

Now, my one question still gets back to the offensive head coach. And I give him credit for making Aaron happy. I give him credit, I guess, for listening to his bosses and keep Mike Petten. Though, like I said, it wasn't his choice. But I really don't, like I don't. I don't feel his impact one way or the other. He's kind of my wild card. Like, do I see him beating Kyle Shanahan?

Do I see him beating Sean Payton? Like, tonight, did he beat Mike Zimmer? Like, it... Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in.

I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source. the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear.

The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action

with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slice Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Keer Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience

in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses.

Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person.

Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast. Learn the hard way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys?

This is Clever Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What?

My mom. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, ref, Mom, I'm a one. want you to wave at her. What? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clippers show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before.

And he knows. Without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us

on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nass would get that thing. That man, hell get to fly. of the court licking his fingers why he got the ball like after you go through a training camp with that Isaiah you figure it out real quick get your ass up and down the court and you're gonna get the ball so listen to

point game on the iHeart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts i mean just my takeaway is Mike petton beat Kirk cousins into submission and Zimmer tried his best I assume it was actually pretty good it's I mean again they scored 23 points and one came on the late run with like seven minutes left or six minutes left to the Packers running back. So Zimmer was fine. It's his quarterback. And they just, they made a decision to sign the guy and it's backfired.

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Okay, let's dive into the Saturday games and let me give a little golf clap to the National Football League, the three Saturday games. The morning one, was fun, and we'll talk about that a little bit later when we go around the league. But the afternoon game with the Pats and the Bills and then the night game, which I'll dive into after this, were fantastic. As a consumer, as a fan of football, as someone who does this for a living, I put any of those hats on, I can't ask for anything more. That was awesome.

That is the reason Pat's, Bills, Niners, Rams, the American pastime, is football. It ain't baseball. It clearly is not basketball. Again, I like those sports. Just you guys don't really watch them. Football is what gets everyone in eyeballs. It's because of Patriots bills, Niners' Rams.

That was fantastic. Patriots, defending champs, I mean, it feels like they've won the last five Super Bowl. I know they've only won three this decade. But they go to the Super Bowl every year. For the first time, it feels like, you know, I'm big into like discovery. channel and animal planet.

I love a good scene when a lion's chasing like a wildebeest or, you know, a smaller buffalo and it's bleeding. But it's still, you know, as much as I like the scenes where they catch the zebra, I don't mind the scenes where the zebra just refuses to go down. And there's a reason to survive out in Africa, in Southern America, whatever the wild species are and you're not the top predator, you got to be tough. You got to be just. Just a willingness to stay alive.

And there is something deep down in the paths that really no team of the last 20 years has had. You know, you think they're dead and they refuse to die. This team is just not as good as their previous teams. Yet, I don't think it would shock any of it. I guess it would be a little shocking just because the team hasn't looked as good. But they're the freaking Patriots. And they just find a way to win. They're going to be a top two seat again.

They won the division again. And that game was vintage pay. Patriots. And what was cool about that game is you saw, like, I was thinking about this. I think really when Buffalo hit a big pass from Josh Allen and it felt for a split second like the bills might win, think how cool it would have been over the last 10 years if some of these teams in the NFC East would have been good. And the Patriots would have played an important divisional games like we get, you know, when the Chiefs have played the Chargers or the Broncos, like the Niners, this week playing Seattle and playing the Rams.

and the Cowboys and the Eagles for years and you just go around the different divisions the Saints and the Falcons Patriots don't play in any divisional games it matter because these teams always suck well now that the bills are good that was freaking sweet because when you press the pats

it's like when you put their back against the wall it's usually when they come out swinging it's usually when you get their best you put Tiger in a major you give them a league going into Sunday you're getting good tiger you say the Warriors can't win they break Houston's dynasty

that was never a dime dynasty because it was actually the Warriors dynasty. Because champions typically respond. And it's cool to see them in that situation. Everyone thought, including myself, like, is Brady kind of done? And whenever I get this tweet or DM, I always say, like, to me, Brady's arm looks just as strong as it's always looked. And if you say, well, he's older now, well, he's never been that athletic.

So what's he losing his speed? He's not running away from anyone. I think their big knock has been the receiver stink. And yeah, his accuracy has dipped a little. and that's why he struggled in several games just to break the 150 yard mark. This is a guy that when he's humming the last five, six years, kind of like 400, no problem.

And you look at a box score, and his box score looks like a backup quarterback, you know, for the Houston Texans. You're like, what is going on here? It looks like Brock Osweiler. But he threw for 271 yards against one of the best defense in the league. And always, like Sony Michelle,

who has been shit on by, people in New England and just nationally like this guy's not any good comes through for 96 yards. Julian Edelman, classic big game. Looks like he got his concussion. No one shakes off a potential concussion quite like Edelman. Comes back, makes huge catches, catches the two-point conversion. Beside Larry Fitzgerald, I would say over the last decade plus, there is no wide receiver I'd rather want on my side going into a big game than Jules. He is just the ultimate big game player.

He just comes through. He's clutch. the dude's a little war daddy. Am I a little biased? He's from down the road. Maybe. But I just know that every time the guy is, you know, is like, can he come through? He always answers the belt every freaking time.

There's a reason when it's all sudden done, he's probably going to be Brady's favorite teammate. And that's saying something. Because he has a lot of guys over the years that he likes a lot. But it's pretty clear. You know, like when you see a woman look at a man or a man look at a woman, you go, God, they're just in love. You see the way Brady and, and, you see the way Brady? Julian look at each other?

Like, that's what football love looks like. I mean, Belichick doesn't look like anyone at like that. Beside Linda, I mean, you see the way Brady looks at that old man. He understands. And what was cool about that game is the bills were a legit foe. They really were. Sean McDermott is one of the bright young coaches in the league. The Panthers never recovered when he left.

That defense is top-notch. What they're doing with like Cole Beasley and these little midget wide receivers, I mean, the running back, Singletary is good, but geez Louise, he's not Walter Payton. And for his, with Josh Allen, here's what had hit me during the game. And I think when you watch a guy in a big game, you can really siphon some things out. And not that my opinion has really changed on Josh Allen, but he made a couple big-time throws. The one touchdown that he hit Brown when he's kind of backpedaling to his side,

whips a 40-yard strike hits the guy in stride as he beat McCordy. for like a 70-yard touchdown, that was a Kaepernick-type play. And when I think peak Kaepernick, one thing that gets lost now because it becomes so political, Kaepernick was a flawed player, even in his peak. But his good plays far exceeded his shitty plays because his good plays were jaw-dropping.

He could, from one foot, rolling to his right, throw a 70-yard strike for a touchdown in a playoff game. And you'd go, you know what? I don't know if I'd ever seen that before. And Josh Allen does that occasionally, where you're like, oh my God, I get why they drafted a guy that threw 50% completion percentage at Wyoming number seven overall. His problem is just consistency in the pocket as a buddy in the league texting me mid game. He's like, if you notice when the play breaks down and he gets to kind of backyard freelance football, he can make these jaw-dropping plays. But when it's in the context of the offense, you know, check from one to two to three in split NFL time, which is.

like two seconds inside the pocket and you've got to read a defense. It's hard for him. And then when it gets compounded, he's not the most accurate passer. Balls fly. Now, I'm rude. Hopefully he can get better and become a really good player. I'm rooting for the guy. But even without that, he still pressed the Patriots

because he could hit these crazy big plays. And he's super tough. He's diving for first downs as a quarterback sneaker. And you can tell like the Patriots were this guy's no joke. The Bill's defense is good. The team was good. The Patriots had to play. I wouldn't say they're a plus game, but that at worst was an A minus level game to win at home. It was fun.

And I, listen, I don't think the Patriots are going to win the Super Bowl this year. But the one thing I will not do is act whether they play the Ravens, whether they play the Chiefs, whoever their matchup is come playoff time, I will not say like the Patriots got no shot or the Patriots are going to get worked. And they may end up losing one of these games by 10 points. Honestly, it kind of feels inevitable, especially at all. is just not right. So even his toughness and his willingness to do whatever,

I mean, you're going to have to drag that guy off the field. But it's just going to be difficult. But it's fun to watch a champion get pressed. I saw it earlier this year when the Warriors were playing the Houston Rockets. Kevin Durant went out, and their championship blood just rank through their bodies. And they broke the Rockets. And the Patriots kind of did it at the bills,

because the bills at one point had to be thinking, I'm like, we're going to win this freaking game. How could they? Now, I'm thinking that on my couch. The Buffalo Bills are going to go to Foxboro and win? I mean, it crossed my mind. Am I watching this? Especially when they call the touchdown to the offensive linemen.

How often do the New England Patriots get New England Patrioted? Like, that's a classic Patriot call. You just like, oh, what a perfect play call, little trickeration, in a big spot, you're like, God, this is high-level shit. And then you think, well, Brian Dayball, the offensive coordinator for the Bills, he's a Patriot guy, Sean McDermott, Andy Reid, Ron Rivera, high-level smart guy. Like, to beat the Patriots or even have a chance, you've got to have high-level coaches.

And the bills, high-level, I mean, clearly big-time coaching going on in that operation. They just don't quite have the talent where the Patriots are just going to, you know, kind of wear them out as the game went on. I don't even know if wear them out's the right term. They just beat them. The Patriots are just a little better. But the bills are coming. And hopefully the Patriots, if they can sustain this for a couple more years,

the bills can be good. And we get a little rivalry here because that was really fun. I was talking to a buddy in the NFL. He's older. He's an executive. And he's been in the league for since the early 90, so 30 plus years. And he gave me a line when we were on the phone a couple months ago. it's always fun.

I have some friends in the NFL that drive super late because they're driving from city to city or doing something. And they always know that they can call me at like 11 o'clock at their time because I'll just be up. So let's get some good talks sometimes late at night. And this guy told me, this guy's been a part of Super Bowl teams and he's won a lot, a really successful career. He said that his team's kind of having a rough year.

And he was like, I believe more than ever, ever, more than ever before, how important chemistry is to winning. The chemistry in your locker room, the cohesion and chemistry of your coaching staff and your players. But specifically the bond of your players, how close they are, how tight they are as a team. And I think the best example, right, is the Patriots, how close Brady, Edelman, McCordy, Slater, their core guys is really tight. And I think another good example this year for an up-and-coming team is the Niners. They have a special chemistry in their locker room.

I also think it works for any walk-of-life. I've been in businesses. Oh, they've been in a couple. When I worked in the NFL, you know, our staff, when I first got there from Andy Reed to to Howie, we had a bunch of young guys, Veach and Lewis Riddick, and we were just pretty close. I mean, we all, we had, I mean, the majority of our guys, we had a ton of guys under 30, Daniel Jeremiah.

It was really cool. I got really lucky that I have a lot of friends still that work in the league and are going to do it for a long time. And one days, I mean, a couple of them should be, they're in their early 30, should be GMs one day. That I was lucky I went to an organization that had a lot of young people. I was in my mid-20s. I didn't know anyone in Philly.

And just young, cool, aspirational. You see what they've done. Howie you want a Super Bowl. Lewis, one of the best guys on TV. Same with Daniel Jeremiah. You got Veach now runs the Chiefs with Andy, Sean McDermott, Nagy. I mean, we just had a ton of person at Duke Staley, who I love Deuce. But it was just, it was special.

We had a really good chemistry in that first year, Michael Vick made the playoffs. And things deteriorated, just naturally. It just happens. I mean, it was more probably players. But then when I worked in radio, when I first got there, we were crushing in the Bay Area, really good chemistry as just a station. I think this works for any walk of life. I really do.

You guys know when you like the people you're working with, whether it's cubicle jobs, whether it's sales jobs, whatever you do, it makes work more fun. And even like in your losses, you have a bad quarter, it makes it easier to bounce back, no different football. If you truly like each other and have a good bond, it's easier to handle a loss. You notice the teams at Splinter, the Browns, they're not friends.

They're fake friends. And the Niners and Rams game, to me, really spoke to that. What the Niners truly have hung your hat on. Now, again, they have really talented players. George Kittles become, I don't know, top five or six non-quarterback in the league. They have Richard Sherman's a pro bowler, Buckner and Armstead, or ass kickers, Nick Bosa, big time. Emmanuel Sanders is good, Debo Samuels. Like, they got Jimmy's playing well.

Kyle Shanahan has our coach. They got talent. You got to have talent. This is pro sports. But I'm telling you, on my other podcast, and again, in my other podcast, Guy Haberman, when we left radio, why I still do it, if you haven't subscribed. Go subscribe. You can find it on Apple. Because we like each other. I like working with them.

I don't want to do a podcast with some random guy. Maybe we could make more money. I don't know. But we own the podcast. We do it ourselves. I like working with them. That's why we do it. It's why we had a radio. I enjoy working with them. It makes it more fun to do. You know, we know what makes each other tick.

It's easy to work together. And I think the 49ers, we interviewed Kittle and McGlinchie in the offseason. And you could just tell, like, these guys are pretty tight. And I'm not just talking about those two, their whole unit. It was like, these guys, now I didn't think they were going to be this good, but you could tell if something was brewing

and the Rams who are still really talented. I mean, I left that game thinking, and I tweeted this in the middle of the game, I don't think people quite understand. If Todd Gurley was still Todd Gurley from two years ago where it looked like, is this guy the best running back in the league?

Because I'd watch him kick the Niners' ass, kick the NFC West's ass, just kick ass. Those long runs, the guy had elite top end speed, he could catch the ball really well. I thought his vision, once McVeigh got there, he became a much more complete player. It was like, this guy is dominant.

Well, he's not anymore. He's an average player at best. But they still have, I mean, Gough, Gough gets shit on, and I'm hard on him sometimes too, but he's still a top 15 quarterback in the league. Cooper Cup, really good player. Robert Woods, I once compared him to Reggie Wayne in a draft meeting,

and, you know, as time has gone on, I don't look so bad. He's really good. Higby and Gerald Everett who's banged up. They got weapons everywhere. Aaron Donald, truly pound for pound, one of the best players I've ever seen. Here's the kicker, though. They trade for Jalen Ramsey mid-season.

A little bit like an NBA-type trade. Like you trade for James Harden, you trade for Kyrie, you trade for Kevin Durant. In the NBA, it's easy. You just trade for the talent and you figure it out later. In the NFL, it's risky. You know, and I think that's why Belichick has always, when he makes trades, they've always been low, he's always paid a limited amount. He never trades like his two first round picks for Randy Moss.

He trades a fourth round pick for Randy Moss. He gets, you know, he gets players when he can acquire them for cheap. Oh yeah, we'll trade you Jamie Collins for a second round pick and then we'll get him back, right? He does stuff like that. And they traded, they paid an absolute premium from Jalen Ramsey, who is an elite player. He made a pick in that game that was just stupid. He is a freak show. But he's a questionable, not a bad guy.

I just don't know if he's the easiest guy in on your locker room. And they did it before with Marcus Peters, where their chemistry is a little, they don't value it as much. Where they, I'm watching them relative to the rest of the league, they're more talented than Seattle. I can say that confidently. They have much better played. Now Russell's the wild card.

But Jared's good enough. you know, to win 10 plus games easy. And you watch that game, the play that ultimately determine the game, 31, 31, 3 and 16, Jimmy Garoppolo hits Emmanuel Sanders for, I don't know, like 48, 46 yards, I think it was. And listen, we can break down the coverages. I could text Todd Bowles or Sean McDermott and like, what do you think about a guy playing flat footer when he's in cover two, blah, blah, blah. It was a safety's fault.

Jalen Ramsey couldn't have thrown the safety under the bus fast enough when a microphone got to his face. Couldn't have done it quick enough. And you know what? I'd say one thing. You know, if that's just a free agent safety that they sign mid-season, who cares? It's Taylor Rap, a second-round pick who's going to be playing behind him for a long time. So, like, Jalen Rant, when you sign up for a guy that mix shit up in Jacksonville, and now it's not the easiest guy to deal with in L.A., this is what you get.

you get a team that's a little underachieving because the first last couple years the Rams had a good thing going. It was positivity, Sean McVeigh, but their team. I followed Jared Goff and Whitworth on social media. They're always like, Whitworth will be out to dinner with his four kids and his wife

and there will be golf and Cooper Cup. It's like, ah, these guys really like each other. When you throw a Jaylen Ramsey into big time chemistry, even if your team's struggling a little bit, it usually doesn't get better. Now, again, his talent, You always in theory trade for the talent But when the Bears traded for Khalil Mack

You know what Kalil Mack is? A great teammate Someone that people love Someone that his teammates like So if you are going to trade that much It's much easier to do Now you can't pick and choose Last night a blown call changed a game This morning the internet lost its mind

Highlights are trending Opinions are flying And nobody's telling you exactly what happened That's where sports slice comes in I'm Timbo Every episode we're cutting through the noise breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions,

the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlic on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist,

Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped. up in the chase, that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person

while you hear on earth. Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about on healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the 4th.

And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, Wreck, my mama want you to weigh better.

What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Cliverts show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defining the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed.

And finding ways to win no matter. what? He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows. Without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too.

Steve Nash will get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers why he got the ball. Like, you go through a training camp with that, IZAD, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball.

So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. When guys become available and usually high character good players, like Khalil Mack, never become available. typically it's the Jalen Ramsey O'Dell Beckham's. Just know that when you trade for those type guys, it can throw a wrench into everything you got going on. And now they're kind of stuck with them.

Now, if you are going to be quote unquote stuck with the guy, you do want to be stuck with an elite talent. You could argue, should they just trade Jalen Ramsey this offseason and try to get their two ones back to some other team? Maybe they could do that. I'm being dead serious. And people will tweet at me all the time. Should the 49ers this off season go trade their first round pick for Odo Beckham?

and I'd say I was the guy leading the charge thinking that they should trade for O'Dell Beckham last year. I said that they should trade the number two overall pick for him. Well, I was wrong. They got, it's perfectly worked out. Nick Bosa, I'd much rather have him for the number two pick. Would I trade, let's say the Niners win the Super Bowl. Best case.

Would you trade pick 32 for O'Dow Beckham if someone asked me that? And I like, I'm an O'Dell Beckham fan. And I would lean on the side, you know, he just keeps being in these losing situations. Here's what I do know. When he's in losing situations, he doesn't handle it that well. So it's easy to be a frontrunner when times are being good. How do you act when times are bad?

I saw Kyle Shanahan act when times were bad. He was great. I saw Jimmy Garoppel in his ACL tour. He was great. Work with Mike Shanahan. I saw Richard Sherman last year when the team sucked, and he was battling back from an Achilles injury. He was great.

Kept his head up. It was positive. He's not a frontrunner. He's a winner. Like, is Odell back up a frontrunner a little bit? I think so. I don't think I'd do that deal. If you would have, six months ago, if you would have said that to John Middilkoff and, you know,

OTAs in 2019, I would have looked at you like, you're nuts. But the more I think about it and talking to this exact how much chemistry matters, there's a reason Bill is very careful about his acquisitions. And I think the Rams, who did things for business reasons, and I get why they did it and they were super aggressive, but I think they got bit by the chemistry bug. Did you know Amazon provides ways of working that fit your lifestyle? They know you value your time outside of work, juggling family, school, friends, or other activities.

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sense of wonder, and our family bonds grow too, because when we disconnect from this and connect with this, we reconnect with each other. The forest is closer than you think. Find a forest near you and start exploring at Discovertheforest.org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the Ad Council. Okay, let's get to Cowboys Eagles. And I was on a text thread last night. We're just with several NFL fans, all complaining. Just, can we stop hearing about the Cowboys?

And I'm with them. I mean, I'm tired of it. Though working in this business, I get it. They move the needle like the Yankees. You know, like LeBron James. I get why they're talked about so much. I think the problem is the Yankees, win every year.

You know, and they've, they earned it by winning all these Super Bowl, or excuse me, all these world series, even the Lakers. In my adult life, starting in like 2000, they, I mean, I was a high school kid, but they won multiple championships check Kobe. They won again with Kobe and Powell. They're, you know, might win again with LeBron. Like, I get it. The Cowboys, they haven't been to an NFC title game since 1996.

But Jerry's an all-time great businessman, and that's why I like talking about Jerry. more about business than this football team. Because let's call a spade to spade. They're football operations. Not their business and their marketing and their market cap and their valuation and all that bullshit that really a cowboy fan doesn't care about. He just wants his team to win.

Like all that stuff's cool unless you're losing. You know? It's like, well, the Raiders, their valuation over the last 10 years has doubled under Mark Davis. Well, yeah, they've had one good season since. Who cares? Everyone's valuations going up.

Look at the media rights. This isn't that complicated to figure out. Do you win? Do you think Patriot fans truly care like how much the team is worth for Robertcraft? No, they take pride in winning six championships and going to the AFC championship every year. And the Eagles are just a better run football operation

they have been over the last 20 years, under Andy and then now again with Howie and Doug. No one should be shocked. And I was thinking about Jason Garrett. we've all probably been there and maybe had it done to our maybe had it come the other way when you know you know and i think i'm talking specifically in a personal relationship mainly with the with the opposite sex now i mean it's 2020 doesn't even have to be with the opposite sex with someone you like right and you get into a position the older you get you know when you're young you're not really thinking like this but

once you get past like 25 or something would i marry this person and a lot of times you know there's a lot of to see you realize, yeah, I don't know if she's the one. Well, the quicker, once you know that, I mean truly know that, you know that, you know, there's a balance. Sometimes you know it, but you're like, you know, she's really hot and I'm having a good time and this is fun. I'm talking like something that gets really, really serious and you know you're not going to marry her. It takes, it's hard to break up with someone. Just like it sucks to get broken up with.

I mean, it sucks. It really sucks. Especially when you like them. You may not want to marry them, spend the rest of your life with them, but you're, really like him. We've all had it happen to us and against us. It stinks, but the quicker you do it when you know, the easier it makes everything big picture. And clearly Jerry knew last year that Jason Garrett wasn't the guy. He can say whatever he wants. I always say, people on Twitter and social media judge all these words. They don't mean shit. I judge humans off actions. Jerry Jones made

him play out his contract or coach out his contract on the last season. Like Jeffrey Lurie last year extended Howie and Doug. So Jeffrey Lurie, the owner, clearly believes in Howie and Doug. Rightfully so, he should. Jerry Jones, I don't care. I think Jason Garrett's a Super Bowl winner, you know, can win the Super Bowl. I think he's the next Tom Landry. He can say all that stuff, which he's been saying for years.

He showed his actions last year when he didn't extend. Jason Garrett coached this season with no contract for next. That is unheard of in the NFL. Unheard of. Which is kind of crazy. I mean, most humans in normal positions and businesses do it. But I understand in pro sports, when you need the coach to earn the respect of your players, that matters. But Jerry didn't even care.

Why would Jerry care? Everyone knows he's the boss. And really the last month, they've been pretty lifeless. And I understand Dax injured and his shoulder was messed up. He didn't play very well. but that was just that was a culmination yesterday of Jerry Jones knowing he knew it he should have done it last year and maybe he wouldn't be in this position because Stephen Jones said this offseason I think this is our most talented team since the mid-90s I agreed hell I'm the one with egg on my face I thought they were going to win the NFC because I thought the team was stacked

and for some reason I kind of believed in Jason Garrett I was an idiot Jason Garrett's terrible he's off I mean, he's beyond mediocre. He's just, he's not a good coach. And Doug took him to the shed. Of course, Doug beat him. Doug's a better coach. Doug's a far vastly superior in-game play caller, mainly because Doug actually calls the plagues,

Jason no longer does. And just you watch the Eagles over the last three years. They just play harder, more consistently, beat good teams, win big games. Cowboys just don't. It's really period, point-blank, end of story. And Jerry Jones, through his actions

validated what everyone was thinking about Jason. He's not good enough because they didn't extend him. And he can say, oh, we're just trying to make him prove it bullshit. You knew what you were doing because you had questions. And when you had questions,

just like in a relationship, you should just end it. It would have been better for everyone and you wouldn't delay the inevitable. Because that's ultimately when you don't break up with that person or they don't, they stream you along.

You're just delaying the inevitable. It's only going to get worse because you spend more time together. You know, you just got to break it off. And Jerry Jones, you could argue, listen, I admire Jerry Jones is one of the truly great American businessman in the history of this great country. But he created the situation.

He played a huge role in not just that game in Philly, but this overall season, now that I kind of thought back on it, by the way he handled Jason's contract situation. And you could make the argument that Jerry Jones even at his old age and this talented roster that he helped put together cost the Cowboys a chance at a Super Bowl this year. Let's dive into Baker Mayfield. And this is the best way I can describe it.

Whatever you do for a job, if you're non-like minimum wage burger flipper or something, if you got a job and it pays relatively well, whatever industry you work in, typically you hang your hat on something, right? if you're like the IT guy in every company, we all know them, they do something we can't do

or else we wouldn't be so dependent on them. They can fix our phones, our computers, shit we know nothing about. Just like the number one sales guy in your company, if you have, you know, that type company, he usually has something special that he brings to the table. One, his relationships that he has with other people, maybe his ability to be social,

maybe he's just the ultimate closer. And when it comes to athletes, in the pros, for the most part, besides, you know, trying to think of like an all-around elite, like Ray Lewis in his prime or, you know, a gronk. There's a small percentage of guys that could, quote, unquote, do it all. Most guys hang their hat on something that separates them, that makes them a really good player.

And it's why we talk in scouting strengths and weaknesses. It's why we try to focus in on a weakness and find out if that weakness is going to be a, detriment to a guy's success. Like, it's hard. You can't play corner if you run a 4-7. Impossible. Won't happen.

Now, you could get by in certain schemes if you run a 4-5-8, but if you run 4-7, I don't care what they're asking you do. You got no shot, right? But you can play wide receiver at 4-7. But there are things we're going to talk about Michael Thomas a little bit later. Michael Thomas ran a 457. So he's not the fastest guy in the world. He's not going to run by the Tyree Hills, right?

It's not his deal. But you know what he can do? He's tough as hell. He's catching radius as elite. He catches everything. His ball skills are top-notch. Devonte Adams, same thing. Juju, same thing.

So when I look at Baker Mayfield, you go, he's got a lot of weaknesses. One, he's a midget for NFL standards. He's a below-average athlete. He is not, like, physically just even in his small size. Like, when you look at Kyler, you look like a little tank, right? He's super yoke. Baker Mayfield looks fat and jubby. But coming out of Oklahoma, the one thing he hung his,

hat on, even in Oklahoma, which I didn't think was a big deal. Colin did. Collinman Proven right. The immaturity stuff, clearly that was a problem. His accuracy though in college was elite. His comparison, best case scenario, was Drew Brees. I thought like this guy is going to succeed. Now, I don't know if I would have taken him number one overall, but I got it. He's got like this Brett Farr of personality, you know, kind of a gunsling crazy guy, but he's super accurate. I'm like, this guy, you can't fail. It's impossible to fail when you're accurate. Well, here's the issue. Do you know what the issue right now with Baker Mayfield is?

He's no longer accurate. He's 60% on the season. And his balls inside the pocket fly all over the place. His wide receivers are constantly having to adjust in the middle of the air. Again, when you watch Drew Brees, who's the highest end of this, obviously? Pinpoint accuracy, hitting guys in stride. And, you know, Philip Rivers in his prime, Peyton Manning in his prime. I'm talking about the guys with average.

Alex Smith. If you got to be, if you're sure, If you're not a great athlete and you can't run around, you better be accurate. Because if you are not accurate and you have Baker-Mayfield's physical characteristics, I'm not even talking about the maturity, the work ethic, because I don't know anyone in Cleveland. I don't even pretend enough. I'm just all given the benefit out.

The guy's working hard. But his accuracy right now is below average. It's not good enough. He's going to fail if this continues. Because this year was a failure. He failed. He was awful. he didn't just regress, he was just a bad player

You know One, I don't think he regressed that much Because I don't think he was that good His first year, I think he got a little overhyped My main issue though Second year, full-time starter Entire off season to grind He can't complete basic routes

And then the tough stuff he has no chance And then whenever he has to leave the pocket He can't do that because he can't run away And then he gets a lot of balls batted down Because he's short So you go This is trending And not in a bad

way, not in the wrong way, in an area that's going to be a complete disaster. This thing's trending of being a major, major bust as the number one overall pick. So if you're the Cleveland Browns, and you've done a disservice by making Freddie Kitchens a first time play caller just last year when everyone got fired to become the head coach who's not helping them out, you owe Baker Mayfield, you owe your organization. Like, you have to get this fixed if you're John Dorsey. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind.

Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athletes themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real.

From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations

with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it, and we don't know when we've done enough.

Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross. you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust.

I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliver Show,

I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, rep, my mama want you to wave at her.

What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm CJ Toledano and our podcast Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed.

And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhaust. at this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys

like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers why he got the bar like, you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah.

You figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down. the court and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. To me you can make a big deal about Freddie Kitchens and the Jarvis two weeks ago

and then Odell last weekend. Whatever. You know, football, competitive environment, a bunch of alpha males, people scream at each other. You know, when you, you ever notice when you see the viral video of Kyle Shanahan, not the one the 49ers posted, but the raw

one that Fox posted, him swearing left and right? it's football. People, the F words use like the. It's just, it's normal. That's weird, crazy things happen. I've heard some good stories. I don't know if I'm at liberty to say, if coach is shoving player.

I mean, it's getting pretty crazy. I mean, it's the NFL. It's a lot of money on the line, a lot of alphas, a lot of egos. Whatever. That doesn't bother me. My issue is just 60% passer in 2019. If he's got, in 60% in modern day NFL,

maybe that flew in like the 80s. That might as well be, if you factor in inflation to what, if we went back to the 80s, he might as well be a 50% passer. That is atrocious. Watching him against the Ravens, he's not a good player. And I'm not anti-Baker Mayfield.

I loved him coming out. And again, I used, this sounds kind of blasphemous right now, sound nuts. I used like, this guy can be Drew Breeze. He couldn't be anything further from Drew Breeze. Then when you factor in the way, people talk about Drew Bree's, the maturity, the leadership, players when they retire,

they cry talking about Drew. Baker doesn't have that going on. But before we can even work and even worry about that stuff, the leadership, the being the quarterback, just the galvanizing personality, because we've seen, you know, Rogers, it's not him, but Baker Mayfield's best day, don't hold a candle to Roger's physical capabilities, worst day. So Baker, just in a vacuum, to even have a chance. to me has to be like 68% passer. He has to be. Now he made a couple throws in the Ravens game,

but they were kind of hollow, down double digits. It didn't really matter. When it's mattered, he's been awful. So that to me is why Freddy Kitchens cannot come back to this football team because when you draft a guy number one overall, you are saying this guy's going to be a transcendent player.

This guy has MVP ceiling. Say what you want about Cam Newton. He had an up and down career. His ceiling was, as high as the sky. And for one year he hit it. MVP, let his team the Super Bowl. Multiple other seasons where I wouldn't say he hit a ceiling but had great years, playoffs.

It was clear. Like, that's a number one overall pick. You don't need to be a former NFL scout to watch Baker Mayfield and go, God, you know, what number one overall pick? You go, Middlecoff, if you compare him to Drew Breeze, Drew Breese went in the second round. Yeah, so that's why when you take a guy with a lower ceiling at number one Overall, and then he's not a good player, it looks that much worse.

Like, Mitch Trubisky, is that a swing and a miss? Of course it is. But when you see Mitch run around or you see Mitch fling an 80-yard bomb that he overthrows a guy by 10 yards, you go, yeah, there's some physical characteristics there. Baker doesn't possess those. So, Jimmy Haslam, John Dorsey, they screwed this thing up hiring Freddie, but they better go in the lab. They better have a long talk because they have, if they,

this doesn't change, this season at whatever they end up with, seven and nine, he's going to look good to compare to what it can be because he is, he's a bad player right now. Look through your children's eyes to see the true magic of a forest. It's a storybook world for them. You look and see a tree. They see the wrinkled face of a wizard with arms outstretched to the sky. They see treasure and pebbles. They see a windy path that could lead to adventure.

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Mom is coming out the front door strong with a double-armed kid carry. Looks like dad has the bags. Daughter is bringing up the rear. Oh, but the diaper bag wasn't closed. diapers and toys are everywhere. Ooh, but Mom has just nailed the perfect car seat buckle for the toddler. And now the eldest daughter, who looks to be about nine or ten, has secured herself in the booster seat.

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Visit nhtsa.gov slash the right seat. Brought to you by Nita and the Ad Council. If I could be you. And you could be me for just one hour. If you could find a way to get inside. Each other's mind. Walk a mile in my shoes. Walk a mile in my shoes.

Walk a mile in my shoes. We've all felt left out. And for some, that feeling last time. more than a moment. We can change that. Learn how it belonging begins with us.org, brought to you by the ad council. Walk a mile in my shoes. You know, maybe some of you guys did so well in college. You got to pick where you went to work. You know, I didn't really know any of those. Maybe my buddies were too dumb. But guys that just were, you know, elite students that had Goldman Sachs or Google or whoever coming after them.

Like they were being recruited, almost like a high school player, but out of college into the workforce. Most of us, like I went to become a GA because it was really the only option I had to get into football, and then I was going to work in the NFL by whoever offered me a job. And the Eagles, they offered me a job, but it was $30,000 or whatever. It might even be less.

It was ugly, I'll tell you that. And no health benefits. I didn't have a choice. Like I said yes on the spot. Yeah, I'm in, right? Most people, if you want to work for a company and they offer you a job right out of college, you just say yes. Even though, I guess in football, because it's a little more of a public company,

you know who's working there, so you have an idea of who you're going to work with. But you don't really determine who's going to hire you. You know, you can be active and reach out and call people and send letters, but there is some randomness to it, to it all for us young people. And obviously in football, when you get drafted, you have no control. You have even less control. Because you can, even if you don't have any leverage coming out of college, you can always say no to jobs.

You can be like, well, this doesn't feel right. In the NFL, if the Bengals take you, the Bucks take you, if the Jets take you, you just say yes. I mean, you just go play. If the Lakers draft you or the Timberwolves draft you, you just go play. You just go playing the NBA. Same thing with baseball, at least coming out of college. But Michael Thomas should be thank his lucky stars that at the end of the day,

he fell in the draft. And a big reason he fell, and this is, I mentioned this a little earlier. It's not necessarily right, but it is what it is. Analytic Twitter loves to act like analytics aren't used. Like, what do you think the 40-yard dash is? Say analytics, Haas. He ran a 457. And any time you run a 4-5-7,

you're kind of perceived as being a little slower, which is stupid. I mean, you're watching Devante Adams on Monday night football. He's a 4-5-8 guy or whatever, too. He's moving around just fine. Like, you can play fast and not run as fast as 40. But that hurt him. And that's why he fell a little bit in the draft.

And maybe there were other stuff. I don't know, I'd have to text my scouting buddies, like the in-depth scouting report. But I just, I can Google his 40 time and go, this guy was clearly a pretty talented player because he went in the second round, and he ran in the high 4-5s. But it's the best thing that never happened to his career.

he ends up with Sean Peyton. He ends up with the peak of his powers, Drew Breeze. And he deserves a lot of credit because through 15 games in 2019, he has 145 catches and nine touchdowns. He is an unstoppable force right now. An absolute badass. And I watched him on the field with Drew Breeze

after they beat the Titans. And Drew walks over, he's being interviewed, and they give Drew the mic, and Drew basically said, like, this guy works his ass off. This guy does everything when no one's looking. This is because of the work he puts in Monday through Saturday. Like most people.

Like any successful, like you watch Colin. Colin's been doing this for 30 years. Like bar stool is now big. Portnoy had been putting in the times just like the early 2000s. Stuff doesn't just happen overnight. Michael Thomas, I can't imagine what he's like to grind or what his work ethic is like in practice. And he's obviously physically gifted or whatever.

But he also benefits, and he even mentioned this one, whoever was the sideline reporter hands in the mic back. He's like, I get to practice and watch this guy work every day, pointing at Drew Brees. Think of the benefit of that for Michael Thomas. So Michael Thomas has a trajectory right now. The 10th straight toward the Hall of Fame. His numbers are historic.

I mean, literally. He just broke the game. He still has a game left. But he really benefits, just like all players do, from going to specific situations. He went with an established, all-time great coach with if Sean Payton were to win another Super Bowl he'll be in the

Hall of Fame obviously Bree's a Hall of Famer and just the organization someone corrected me on DMs I guess I was calling it New Orleans it's New Orleans I'm just going to call them the Saints and the Saints now are one of the model organizations in all of football

come a long way since Katrina and being a laughing stock to what Breeze and Sean Payton have now established there and Michael Thomas has really benefited Now, again, he deserves a ton of credit. But the thing with the NFL is, when Peyton Manning signed with the Broncos,

wherever he was going to go, they were going to win. Like, he was at the peak of his powers coming back off the injury. He was just a master of his craft. But when you're 21, 22 years old, your success is predicated on who you're playing with and who's coaching you. Like Devante Adams, another, Juju Smith, fell in the draft. Do you think that they landed in good spots?

The Green Bay Packers, the Pittsburgh Steelers, Michael Thomas fell in the draft to the New Orleans Saints. When I first got to Philly, Deshawn Jackson had fallen to the Philadelphia Eagles and Andy Reed. Sometimes falling in the draft is not always the worst thing. You know who's not going to fall on the draft this year? Joe Burrell. You know where he's going to end up?

The Cincinnati Bengals. You know where ideally you don't want to end up? The Cincinnati Bengals. Now, you can be such a great talent. Now, in fairness, like when AJ Green got to the Bengals, They had a credible organization with Marvin Lewis, had a good team around him. He was a great talent and had a lot of success.

But you see a lot of players waste in bad spots. Because when you don't win, when your quarterback sucks, as a wide receiver, you're not a defensive lineman. Where if you're a defensive end, even if your team sucks, you can still stand out. It's really hard to stand out as a wide receiver. If your quarterback stinks, if your offensive coordinator stinks, if your team's a nightmare

and Michael Thomas deserves all the credit he's getting and I think he should always think back and thank his lucky stars that maybe he ran a little slower in the draft but it led him to the Saints it let him to become really rich and it let him to potentially become a Hall of Famer.

Let's go rapid fire just things I saw around the league Sunday and maybe even Saturday too. The Dolphins, four and four last eight games just absolute hat tipped a ball. Brian Flores, turns out that guy is the better of the two defensive coordinators that left Belichick in a two-year span. Every single human alive would take Brian Flores as their coach over Matt Patricia.

He's done a good job. You know, with Ryan Fitzpatrick, they traded for Rosen, they were tanking. They are respectable. They're four and four over their last eight games, and they've, they just passed the eye test. I mean, they play hard. Ryan Fitzpatrick makes plays. They're enjoyable. How about the Falcons, five and two down the stretch?

is Dan Quinn saving his job? Is he a 100% lock to be fired? I would say, I thought yeah, but every week that goes by, I don't know, beat the Niners. I don't even know who the Falcons just played, but they won another game. Jacksonville, I think. Raiders somehow still alive. They needed seven things to happen on Sunday, and they all did, and they need five more things to happen this Sunday. The problem for them is, one, they play at Denver.

Denver's actually played well the second half of the season under Vic Van Gio. Two is Derek Carr does not play well in games under 50. It's going to be in the 40s. And you just never know at any moment. It could snow or whatever. He's not a cold weather quarterback. And three, some of the teams they need to win, like the Texans. The Texans, when they play in the afternoon, might have nothing to play for.

The Ravens have already announced that RG3 is starting the game. And they're going to sit every, you know, several starters, as they should. They had a bunch of injury scares late in that game. And they have the one seed clinched. So the Raiders aren't going to make the playoffs. I just don't think they're going to win in Denver. But they went 7 and 9 and I tweeted once upon a time. They won't sniff 4 wins.

That still gets retweeted and it's fun for Raider fans. I get it. But I still don't think they're good. But they didn't win 7 games, so it's a lot better than 4. Albert Breer wrote something today in his MMQB about McVeys a lot more involved in the defense. It looks like he's going to get rid of Wade Phillips. I don't know. I don't know anyone in L.A., so I don't know if there's a riff there.

If Wade, who loves his money, I mean, I think Wade makes like two and a half million dollars a year. Wade probably thinks he's worth about five. I bet he's asking for a huge raise. And McVeigh is now dabbling in defense, I guess, which is a little weird. Is he going to trade for Steve Belichick, or not trade for Steve Belichick? My hope, my way too early prediction, he goes and hire Steve's Belichick. I have no clue who John McVeigh would hire as his defense coordinator. It was an easy one with Wade Phillips, an older guy, veteran guy.

Now, I don't know. Are the Texans good? I ask myself that every week. You know, Will Fuller's now hurt? That's a big blow. I think Bill O'Brien, who's just kind of a wuss as a coach, he just never has the balls to pull the trigger when it matters the most. Like he'll make a crazy trade, but he won't go for it in a big spot

or challenge in a big spot as he did in Tampa. But they won the division, I think, for the third year in a row, they're headed to the playoffs. They're hosting a playoff game. James, I've never quite experienced anything like James on Saturday morning. He threw a pick on his first pass of the game. I think in the first half he had three picks. He finished the game with four.

But anyone that watched that game, I think, would attest. He had to have hit, I'd say, between 8 to 10, including the picks, Texans, in their hands. In their hands. He could have thrown 8 picks, no problem. He's 31 to 28. I don't even know who they played this week. I will be shocked.

Let me repeat, shocked, if he doesn't get to 10. to that 30 mark. The 30-30, the 30-30 club, I'd have to Google it to know if it's even the first. I'd imagine in modern history is the first 30-30 guy for sure, because he's not bad. He makes plays, he makes winning plays, but he just, God, he turns the ball over a lot. T.J. Watt and the Steelers pass rushers having a hell of a season. 14 sacks, seven-force fumbles, two interceptions. I don't know if he's going to win the defensive player of the year award, but he's definitely throwing his hat in the ring. The chiefs are hot. Five straight games of the defense holding the opponents under 20 points. Obviously,

Mr. Bisckey skews that because he doesn't score at all, and they only score three points. But Chiefs are playing well. Mahomes is getting his swag back. Hills Dominate and Kelsey's dominating. Honey Badgers dominate. Their defensive lines coming on. They claim Terrell Suggs. Their other young corners are playing well.

They are, to me, I don't know if they're even the sleeper. I mean, they got their defending MVP and the guy, they were in the AFC championship last year, but they would be my not-so-sexy. I think most people are picking the Ravens, I think the Chiefs could win the AFC. Mr. Trisky stinks. Under no circumstances, if you're Ryan Pace, can you pick up the fifth year option?

It's an easy, no-brainer move. You decline the option, and you look to cut this off-season. And acquire Dalton, Rivers, Brady, I don't care who. Obviously, you'd acquire any of those guys, but you got to upgrade. You can't roll the season back with Mr. Misk. That's unacceptable. Mike McCarthy interviewed for the Carolina Panthers. He's been making a huge media put.

saying how much he's into analytics, saying how open-minded he is. He understands what's going on right now. I think when the dust settles, he ends up landing a head coaching job. Just all of his experience. I mean, his resume speaks for itself. Ben of the Super Bowl, won a bunch of playoff games. I mean, won a Super Bowl. Coach a ton of good players, multiple generations of players.

You know, especially if he takes the tact of the tactic that, you know, I've learned a lot. Everything he's learned from in this offseason, looking in the mirror, and I think it's going to benefit him greatly. And other than that, maybe I'll save a huge, do a huge middle cough mailbag on Friday.

We're already in an hour. It's Christmas. Enjoy Christmas. Enjoy your loved ones. You know, you just, you know, lost my dad a year and a half ago. You just never know,

who's going to leave the family as time goes on. So this is a special time to be with your family and love Christmas, man. and enjoy everyone listening. Thanks a lot. Appreciate everyone making the show. Go as it does. And thankful for all you guys.

Merry Christmas. Happy Hanukkah. And see you guys a little later this week. Get right to the romance and find the way to wow this valentines with 1-800flowers.com. From classic roses and bouquets to decadent chocolate-covered berries, gourmet treats, and more. Surprise your Valentine with 1-800flowers.com. Right now, get the 8-100 flowers.com. 18-stem enchanted rose medley for 3999 or upgrade to 24 red roses for $10 more.

Go to 1-800flowers.com slash tune-in. That's 1-800flowers.com slash tune-in. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story

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help make you funny. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and headwriter, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

What's up, guys? This is Cliver Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue 42.

Hey, rec, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast.

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You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.