The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 3 and Out - Free Agency Philosophy, OBJ Reality Check, Cooks/Cowboys Fit, Mailbag

Episode Date: March 21, 2023

John explains why reports that Roger Goodell will be extended as NFL Commish, the difference between elite and bottom feeder franchises approach free agency, why the Texans re-signing LT Laremy Tunsil was a no-brainer, why Odell Beckham is delusional about his value, why he likes the Cowboys signing oft dealt WR Brandin Cooks, and why “football schools” are seeing success bleed over into the NCAA Tournament. He also answers listener questions in the Middlekauff Mailbag. Subscribe NOW and follow Middlekauff and The Volume on Twitter, Instagram and YouTube for the latest content. It's always FanDuel for the best wagering action! #volume #herdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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And yeah, let's dive in. A lot going on, some of my thoughts on free agency, some moves that happened over the weekend and breaking news that actually just happened before I press record. So let's dive into it. But before we dive into football, can I tell you about my friends at game time?

I saw JJ Watt took his wife and a bunch of her friends to Taylor Swift. Taylor Swift, big concert tour all over America. you want to go see her you want to go see anyone else any concert here's what i need you to do download the game time at sign up in my first time users with the promo code john that's my name john get $20 off how do you beat that these inflationary times save 20 bucks i got you you want to go to a concert you want to go to a comedy show major league baseball opening days right around the corner march madness we got sweet 16 the elite eight the final four you want to go to that your squad still in

the tournament, type in game time to the app store, download it, fast growing take a website in America, promo code John $20 off, can't recommend enough, take your friends, take your wife, take your dad or mom, whoever you want, do it on me. You don't even need to say thank you. Just use the promo code, John. Okay, before we dive into some free agency stuff, I saw Adam Schaefter just broke, breaking news that I guess the owner's meetings in a couple weeks here in Phoenix, Arizona, Arizona. And Andy Reid will have on his Hawaiian shirt. And we always love the coaching picture

and the GM picture. We got a lot of new faces every single year. And the news from Adam Scheffers that Roger Goodell will be giving a contract extension and will continue to be the NFL commissioner. And for a guy who I would say has been polarizing in media circles over the year, it can't be denied. I was thinking about it. I think in my 38 years of life, you might have to say he's the best sports commissioner. I mean, I was born in 1984. When David Stern took over, I think he would be the other guy that would be in the discussion. And Roger Goodell has had some things in his tenure that were pretty polarizing and that were mistakes. But his number one goal, and I think a lot of guys have written about this since the breaking news, was I'm going to generate more revenue for the leak.

And the league hasn't just generated more revenue. It's generated historic amounts of money. For owners, for coaches, for players, everyone associated with the NFL is bigger now than they were when the NFL took over. And to me, the other thing he has done, and some of it is out of his control. I think football benefits a lot from the way we're wired now in 2023, less time, not because we have less time. not because we have less time in a day. There's still 24 hours, but we just got more options.

Our phone comes with us everywhere. Our attention spans are much smaller, and the NFL is Taylor made for that. It's once a week on Sunday when none of us work. And then as primetime games are Monday night and Thursday night. And never forget Thursday night, pretty, you know, was a highly debated topic for a long time. Goodell didn't just push it.

He led it forward. And it's now, blown by all the Thursday night college football games and is bigger than any baseball or basketball game. But the number one thing Roger Goodell has done is just on his watch made football more popular and the more popularity you have, the more money you make. And it's the biggest sport in America by a country mile. There's not even a close second. In reality, the second is college football and the reason that second is because of the NFL draft. Now, obviously it's got built in fan bases, but it is the NFL, the future NFL players have to play in college football

for minimum three years. Where, think about the NBA, when I was a kid, college basketball was really big. Why? Because you could watch Alan Iverson, you could watch Shaq, you could watch all these future stars, Tim Duncan, play four years. Now they don't. And so college basketball, the tournament's really fun, but for the most part, we don't watch the regular season games.

And the NBA on Adam Silver's watch, a guy who's loved by the media, he's lost. half the audience in an eight-year span. And everyone keeps telling me their next deal is going to be massive with, you know, the media rights. How is that possible? The audience is not there. The reason Roger Goodell keeps getting dramatically more money in every television deal is their audience keeps growing in a time when television is completely splintered. It's the one thing we can agree upon. You put on an NFL game on Thursday night, on Sunday, or Monday night. We watch it. And we watch it as a country. And obviously the playoffs and clearly the Super Bowl speak for themselves.

They're in a different stratosphere than every other event. So Roger Goodell, to me the number one thing the NFL's got to figure out, and I think this has been reported by either Schefter or someone, maybe Florio wrote this, is one of the contingencies in this contract is to try to find a succession plan. Because a succession plan is important. But the reality is, when they went from David Stern to Adam Silver, they thought it would go pretty well. And it hasn't. More than likely, whoever the next commissioner with the NFL, it's not going to be as good.

And the reality is you can't go outside the framework of the institution. Like, you're not going to hire some CEO of another company to run. There's too many bodies buried in these leagues. It's why they always hire internally. But let's just say Roger Goodell, he's the commissioner to 2030 or 2032. the next commitment. This might be the peak of football, the Roger Goodell era in terms of popularity,

in terms of money. Because more often than not, when you look at the history of other commissioners, it usually gets worse as time goes on, whoever takes over. So, you know, listen, media hates them, the owners, the players,

the coaches, us podcasters. Without the popularity of the NFL, there is no way I could make the living I'm making. So I, listen, I'm biased. I directly benefit from the popularity of this sport. And there's just no way around it.

Roger Goodell has played a big role in the machine that is the national football league. Okay, some thoughts on free agency. One thing we've seen over the years in free agency, football is a lot different from basketball and baseball. You just saw in baseball, the best players in the sport were literally, free agents. Anyone, well not technically anyone, but the teams with the money could make bids on Aaron Judge, Trey Turner, it's just the way it works. Manny Machado, you know, basketball, no different. James Hardin, Kevin Durant, whoever becomes a free agent like anyone can sign those guys. In football, those guys in their prime don't hit the open market. So free agency is a lot about

band-aiding a position. And typically it's because you've missed on a draft pick. But band-dating position is not, you know, a bad thing to do, right? Sometimes, listen, having a girlfriend that works in real estate, it's an eye-opening experience as a real estate agent to watch her deal with clients. It is a tough job. As someone who used to think like, does real estate agent really deserve this cut? Now I go the opposite. Like, I don't know if you're getting enough deal with some of the stuff she has to deal with. And obviously, whenever you buy a home, different homes have different problems. And there's a lot bigger issue that, right, than if you need to completely change the foundation, uh, that if the HVAC unit needs to be replaced. If you need to replace the HVAC unit,

it's pretty easy in a contract to deal with like, yeah, give me a $7,000 credit, right? If half the roof needs to be replaced, hey, give me a $10,000 credit. And you can figure out, still moving to the home, fix a problem for not that big of a headache. And that to me is kind of what free agency is. You're not knocking down the entire house. You're not, reworking your roster. If anything, that's more for the draft, especially big picture. Free agency is about putting,

you know, putting some band-aids on a cut. And the 49ers are a good example. They signed J-Mond Hargrave. The reason they had to do that is because they whiffed on Javan Kinlaw, and they paid a lot. But they paid a lot for something that they desperately need. An improved

interior pass rush. And this guy's good at it. I look at the chargers. The Vikings have serious salary cap issues. They have tried these last two years, and I commend the way they've gone about it, is to fix their run defense. Remember last year,

they signed the defensive tackle from the Rams, forget his name, obviously trade for Cleo Mac. They attempted to improve their front because they were terrible against the run. Well, even last year, they weren't great against the run either. So what they do immediately?

Sign Eric Kendricks, who throughout his career has been a tackling machine. So they are making efforts on two areas that they are struggling with. Because if the charges could ever just stop the run. I got news for you. They're going to be pretty good because offensively has not been their problem. Think about the Giants, right? You're not going to go into this free agency and somehow

find Debo Samuel, AJ Brown, and, you know, Travis Kelsey. But you can make a move. And a player that's available who a couple years ago was viewed as the third best tight end in the league, Darren Waller, you got for a third round pick. Now, when you pull up Darren Waller's sports reference page, you're like, God, he hasn't been good in a couple years, mainly because he hasn't played, and when he has played, it's been very hit or miss. But when I only have to give up a third round pick for a guy that's under contract, like that move. They need to improve at the tied end at the wide receiver position in terms of explosive plays and trading for Darren Waller, to me, is a risk worth taking. The Lions. The Lions are going to be a team. It's going to be

very, very interesting because, listen, they've had a good free agency. They got several high draft picks. Everyone, they're the betting favorite. Literally they are to win the NFC North because we all know Aaron Rogers, which may go to the Jets by fucking, who knows, maybe it happens in August, maybe happens next week.

I'm done waiting for it to happen. But he's going to be gone and everyone's going to pick the Lions to win the division. And everyone's obviously going to pick the Lions, probably to like, be a sleeper NFC team. There's going to be pressure on them. I was very pro Lions last year, the second half of the season. Their offense is loaded with talent.

stud offensive lineman. You can't watch Aiden Hudson and go, yeah, this guy's going to go to several Pro Bowls. Like this guy, like JJ Wattish, like, I mean, he's got something going on. Aiden Hutchinson's going to be a star in the league. And one issue they had is they couldn't cover anybody. So what did they do this off season?

They signed Emmanuel Mosley. DB from the 49ers coming off in A.C. Elnger, really good starter when he's healthy. They signed C.J. Gardner Johnson from the Eagles. I would imagine they draft the DB relatively high. So they start building positions of need with free agency, specifically with the corner and the safety from the Eagles. So the key to free agency when you're a good team is to just incrementally improve on the margins.

Occasionally, like you could argue Hargrave might have been in a vacuum, the most talented player. But for the most part, there aren't just a bunch of sweet players hitting free agency, but you can take advantage of it. I saw it. I mean, I saw it. You saw it last year with the Jacks.

everyone talks shit about the Christian Kirk contract, but he was pretty good for them, especially when you look around the wide receiver room, it wasn't great. Like, he made a pretty big impact. So when you make the right move in free agency, like you can fill a specific need. You're not going to change your franchise unless it's a quarterback

and it's like Peyton Manning, right, or Drew Breeze. That's not usually what happens. And a lot of times quarterbacks move teams, it looks like Russell did last year, right? Or Deshawn Watson. Sometimes it can be pretty bumpy. So I like a lot of the moves on the market. margins and some of these playoff teams got better. Two moves that happened over the weekend

that I like a lot. Just because you suck does not mean you should just get rid of players. You know, one thing in football is you can go from pretty shitty to like competitive really, really quickly. And I always hate when new coach gets there and they just get rid of every player that can play. The Patriot guys historically always do that. They get to a place and they usually have a head coaching opening for a reason. So, you know, they need new blood, new whatever. But not every player stinks. Like, you can coach some of these guys on the roster. Now, sometimes complete teardown. Remember, if you're old enough to remember this, when Pete Carroll and John Snyder took over Seattle, I think the first year they were in charge, they set a record for

NFL transactions, cutting guys, trading guys, releasing guys, signing guys. They were just, you know, churning the waiver. wire. It was crazy. But a lot of times you can take over a place and just look at Brian Dayball, got there, didn't just throw Daniel Jones to the side, worked him, coached him. Now he's starting quarterback. Sekewarm Barclay. Easily could have showed up and just traded Secawan Barclay. No, coached him up, worked him. Now he's playing well. Right. To me, the most legendary one was the 49ers and Jim Harbaugh. Now, they had big names, but they had not been winning. He didn't try to trade like Patrick Willis or Vernon Davis or Joe Staley.

or Frank Gore or Crabtree. He just worked with them all and then immediately won. Now, when I see the Texans, it'd be easy to like. D'Amico gets there, talk to Casario. Let's just start it all from scratch. One of the rumors was the chiefs were sniffing around Laramie Tunzel. He's only 28 years old. He's still a really good left tackle.

And the Texans just signed him to a three or $75 million contract. They gave him $50 million guaranteed. People are like, why are you paying? Like, what's the point? Well, the point is where do you find left tackle? You know, where are there human beings that are 6'5, 320 pounds that are good at that position? How many good left tackles does the NFL have? 10? Max? So if you have one of them, you might as well just keep her.

And let's say the Panthers draft, CJ Stroud, and you get Bryce Young. And let's just say Bryce Young is immediately pretty good. And all of a sudden you look up, D'Amico's a really good coach, and you're a 7-8 win team. And now everyone's bullish on you. You still got picks because you got the Browns pick. and now you can turn around within a year or two. So I love that move. I saw a lot of people like,

why are they doing this? Well, why are you doing this? You got a good player at a position that's very hard to, you know, to find a replacement. And even if you do find their replacement, that position is very expensive. You might as well just roll with them.

And Laramie Tunzel is a pretty good businessman. You know, he got paid when he was 25 years old when he was traded to the Texans. And he got paid again. And he keeps signing shorter term deals. And everyone's like, Mark Jackson, $230 billion. They offered him $133 million.

I said this at the time. He could have signed that deal and been a free agent again when he was 28 years old, I, you Larry Me Tunzel. Now there's always a risk. It's football. You can get injured. Laramie Tunzel's having a pretty good time. You know,

he's printing that cash. And the other move is there were a lot of people like Odell Beckham. You know, he had a tweet or an Instagram. I can't even follow. Clearly he, you know, denied. He thinks he's worth 20 million, but he thinks he's definitely worth some money. I'd argue, O'Dell, actually you're not.

You've torn two ACLs in three years. You are not a durable player. You're getting older now. There are a million wide receivers in the league. I'd argue you're like a $2 million player with incentives to get you like seven or eight. But I couldn't pay you $4 million if I was a general manager. I think it's pretty clear.

No general manager's scam. That's why he's a free agent. And clearly the Cowboys, like once they lost Amari Cooper, they lost a little bit of the balance on offense and they lost Cedric Wilson last year. Like, they need a little more firepower. power and trading for Brandon Cooks who I think I read he's

the first player who's been traded four times before he's 30 and it's not like some scrub. This guy is a very, very productive player. Love him when he was at Oregon State. And yeah, you put him with CD Lamb, you put him with Pauler, like that offense

is going to be good. And defensively, they already are good and they kept their defensive coordinator. I like that move a lot for the Cowboys. I think he's in the last year of his contract. The Texans were eating six million to the contract, so you're only paying him $12 million this year. You know, if you can get 70, 80 catches out of him and another 90 Fucidi lamb, that's a pretty good one-two combination at wide receiver.

That really is. Once upon a time, they got him because they wanted him and Hopkins together. And then I think it turned into him and Fuller. I really like this kind of combination with maybe Cooks and Hopkins now thinking back on it, never played together. Got my Texans timeline a little mixed up. Sorry, I don't have my Texans. you know, years exactly in order in the top of my head.

But, you know, I think Brandon Cooks is better than most people think. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions,

my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right what you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Not all gambles are equal. Like, I'm all for if you're a player and you're not getting the contract you want and you're an elite guy signing the franchise tag, because I think for the most part,

you know, you're always going to end up getting paid. And most good players that play a year in the franchise tag end up getting huge contracts. but sometimes, you know, a guy, sometimes a guy like Dalton Schultz who thinks he's a little better than he is, you know, signs the franchise tag because he's almost pissed off, like why isn't anyone giving me like $30, $40 million guaranteed? Well, here's the one thing. There are a couple positions that just don't get paid that much money.

And in fairness to tight ends, they are dramatically underpaid. Like Travis Kelsey, George Kittle, Darren Waller when he's rolling, Mark Andrews, when he's healthy. Like these guys, if there are wide receivers making $18, $20 million, those guys deserve that much money. But that's not the going rate because positions in football are like real estate streets. Your comp is what's another house on your street sell for? Same square footage, similar backyard. You know, that house sold for $500,000. Your house is not going to sell for $1.2. Right. So tight ends like are based on other tight end contracts. And Dalton Schultz like, Google his stats.

It's not like he's giving you 90 catches and 10 touchdowns a year. And last year he didn't even have 600 yards receiving. So now he, I think he just signed today with the Texans, but you come off a franchise tag year and you have to wait a week in the free agency. Georgia, he misplayed the market. And part of the reason you pay an agent in football is to know the market. Now, sometimes there are educated guesses. That's part of business.

You were taking educated guesses when you make any transaction, right? When you buy a car, when you buy a stock, when you buy a home. But part of like going into free agency is using the combine and the time leading up is to know the market. What am I worth? And Albert Breer reported that he had three years, $36 million contract. Now there might have been some hollow money. But clearly he underestimated his market. CJ Gardner Johnson, a lot of people like, how did the lions get him for $8 million?

And his agent tweeted like, yeah, the Eagles offered us three for 24, but it was all fake money. Well, yeah, that's kind of a you problem. You know, you need to know your market because if your client is signing a week after free agency, clearly you went three or four days when you're getting offers. Your client doesn't like because you have promised him money that actually isn't there or else you would have taken it. So this is all a game of chess.

I think Josina Anderson had tweeted out like agents are pissed, a lot of one-year deals. Well, yeah, if I give a one-year deal to a client, like free agency, the reason McGlinchie got $50 million is because there were other teams willing to give him probably 45, right? If I give you a one-year deal, you're only signing that one-year deal is because you don't have any other options.

It's not, there's no emotion in this. It's an emotionless business. Besides like, obviously the Eagles when they resign Fletcher Cox or Brandon Grant. I mean, there is emotion. You know, when Jerry breaks Zikoff, certain teams with certain players, there is an emotional connection.

But for the most part, with players that aren't yours in free agency, pretty emotionless. Pretty emotionless. And some players have good representation and they play it right. And I think you see this Lamar thing. It's getting very emotional. And no deal's getting done. Because when you get too emotional, I would say in any transaction, whether it's a $200,000 condo, whether it's a $50 million contract,

whether it's, you know, something with your family. When emotion is involved, you don't always make the right decisions. And sometimes it clouds your judgment. And I think clearly in football, it happens with some of these guys that get franchised because they have this false identity that they're actually better than they are. And some guys are sweet. Some guys that get franchise are awesome. And other guys like Orlando Brown, franchise last year.

Is he a franchise player? I watch Orlando Brown. We just saw him hit the open market. He's the 16th highest pay tackle now in the league. league. So clearly is not. And the chiefs knew that. And it's why they moved on. One thing that jumped out to me, I love March Madness. I watched no college basketball. I don't think I watched throughout the entire year, a full game of college basketball. Yet March Madness starts, I'm fucking glued. I watched a ton of March Madness. And I placed two future bets.

I bet on the Arizona Wildcats, which lost in the first round disaster. And I bet on the Gonzaga, Gonzaga Bulldogs. And my logic was simply on Gonzaga. It's like flying a little under the radar. I think this could be their year. It's going to be hard. I mean, they play UCLA, but I,

you know, win three or four Gs. I think it's $3,500 that they win. But one thing that jumped out to me is like, and I've always, when I went to Fresno State, when I became a GA there in 2008, the administration was very like pro title nine. And they were actually kind of anti-football.

And there was reasoning behind it. Because before I had shown up within the previous couple of years, they had a women's basketball coach. And she was very good looking. And there was an incident with like, I can't remember who was the athletic director or like assistant AD in a car wash where they're inappropriate touching. And she sued.

And she won a ton of money. As well as the softball coach who thought her team, I think was being treated unfairly, sued the university as well and won. So Fresno State had a title nine. problem getting sued. They were going to go broke because they couldn't afford to make all these payouts because they were losing. So when I got there, football, we were at a disadvantage because we were not getting priority, even though one of my favorite stories when I was there,

there was a town hall meeting. So basically the AD speaks in the football meeting room because that was the only space they could fit every single team, their coaching staff. So it wasn't players, just the coaching staff, kind of like a town hall. And Pat Hill, the coach. at the time, who I worked for, came in like 15, 20 minutes late, right? And the meeting was going. And when he walked in and sat down, I can't remember. It might have been the volleyball coach or the soccer coach, turns around and went like, must be nice to show up whenever you want.

And Coach Hill, kind of tongue in cheek, but also kind of serious, was like, yeah, I was out fundraising to pay for your salaries. And I was like, damn. He was right, though. football team at Fresno State, which is clearly much lower than all the Power 5 programs financially, but still paid for everything. And the one thing in the SEC, I saw a stat like some of these teams that have made these runs in the NCAA tournament, their potential enrollment, like people didn't enrolled or the admissions, the admissions,

not enrollment, but the admissions had like tripled, had quadrupled. I'm talking like Butler, Florida, Goals. Gulf Coast, all the teams, I can't even think of them all the top of my head, that it made these runs. And the higher your admissions go, the more options you have to pick from the cream of the crop. I say it all the time. The amount of people I know, you know, I'm from the Sacramento area in Northern California, friends and family who are, you know, I would say late 40s, early 50s that have kids that are coming on college level ages that are applying to the SEC. I mean, I think by, within a couple years, I'll know 10 kids from the Davis, Sacramento area that are going to school at Ole Miss, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, and Tennessee.

And I think I said this on a previous podcast. I didn't know a soul who would ever go there. And I think a big reason that is the popularity of the conference, starting with football. It is a very, very popular conference. And ultimately, the SEC has gone all in on football. And because of that, led by Nick Saban, but you can say, no, well, it's all Nick Saban. Well, kind of. Like last time I checked, LSU won a national championship.

George's won back-to-back national championships. Florida's won some national championships. I mean, they got other programs competing for national and winning national championships. And it's paying absolute premiums to the conference. And look at the basketball conference in the SEC. They are the highest paid coaches right now in basketball. I Googled the other day the top 25 in college baseball. baseball, I think six or seven of the top 10 teams are all from the SEC.

I was listening to a podcast within the last like six months. It was this guy that just made it the PGA tour. He played at Oklahoma. And he was talking about college golf and he says, whenever he played the SEC teams are all flying private. And this was always my issue at Fresno State. It's like, God, we are spending so much time talking about fucking softball. They lose money.

Why don't we double down on football and softball will end up making more money? but we had this loser AD that didn't think like that and thank God he's long gone now but the SEC has never thought like that they've always been about football who did they just add Texas and Oklahoma why for football reasons what did the Big Ten do they added UCLA and USC

mainly for football with USC and UCLA for basketball which is one of the obviously cash cows in basketball but it shows you the importance of the sport college athletics is not like any other business Like when I works for the Eagles, the only business was the football team. Everything revolved around the football team. We didn't have to subsidize other things. Like the NBA, I don't know why the media would never say this, subsidizes the WNBA.

There was like this polarizing. Again, polarizing would be strong. There was these people arguing on Twitter within the last month, how every NBA team should, every, excuse me, WNBA team should fly private. Should they? Do they make enough money? How is that just? The reason CEOs of Wells Fargo and Amazon fly private is because their companies turn a huge profit.

The reason NBA teams or NFL teams or professional baseball teams fly charter flights is because they can pay for it. If you can't play for it, you shouldn't fly it. And I think football has the mindset in college athletics, the major conferences, and it feels like we're headed toward the SEC, toward the Big Ten, go all in football, everyone else benefits. Because ultimately football, and depending on the school, some college basketball, subsidize every other program.

And I think the SEC just figured it out early on. Obviously, they benefited from a historical John Wooden-like figure at Alabama in Nick Saban. But God, it really jumped out to me this weekend. They just care about sports more, and specifically football and everyone else has benefited. One move, you know,

I just, I loved Ryan Poles getting DJ more in that trade. I really did. And he talked to Peter King today and he said, you know, he thought about if he could potentially go from one to two and then two to nine. And it was going to take a little more time to potentially pull off that deal and there was no guarantee that that deal could come. And, you know, pigs get fed, hogs get slaughtered. He took the deal when he had the opportunity with the Panthers.

And to me getting DJ Moore was just a steal in that deal. I think the one thing the Panthers underestimated a little more I would have said DJ Moore is not on the table like you're not staying at one I don't think you're going to get a deal

remotely close to pick nine next year's one I would have given you next year's two and then like maybe two more two I would have given other picks but not trade to DJ more and I think they justified it

by going well we can replace DJ more maybe go cheaper and they essentially did with Adam feeling. But here's my thing with Adam Thielen. He's not remotely as good as DJ Moore. He's not

as young as DJ more. And when you look obviously statistically at him, but if you've watched him, and I'm an Adam Thielen fan. But that's your classic like, listen, we can include him in this trade so we can get up to where we want, because ultimately they would say we're going to go or not go as far

as the quarterback is going to take us. And we can find people to play that position maybe not as good as him, but 80, 85%. And I think sometimes when you sign these older wide receivers, it's just very risky. It just can be very, very hit or miss. And sometimes, like, you just get a member of the Raider, signed Jordy Nelson. And then all of a sudden he just sucked.

And it was just over. And pretty much that happened a lot with some of these guys who especially lose speed. And Theon's never been a blazer to begin with. So I just, you know, the Panthers have gone all in on this, on this quarterback. who's his quarterback going to be throwing to? Who's he passing the ball to? It's one of the things we say about Justin Fields where, listen, you can tell me he's not a great pastor.

Who the bleep was he throwing the ball do last year? Now, this year he's got no excuses, right? You had to chase Claypool, who's not the biggest fan up, but you get DJ Moore to go along with Mooney, commit, you draft another skill guy. Just time to roll, baby. But I don't know how we're going to judge whoever the hell the Panthers draft.

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W.W.W.md gambling help.org, Maryland, 1-800, 522, 4700, Wyoming, or visit www. www.1-800 gambler.net, West Virginia. Okay, let's dive into this little thing we call the Middlecough mailbag. At John Middlecough is the Instagram handle. Direct messages wide open. fire in those DMs and get a question answered here on the show. Max, I've seen a lot of mock drafts having Seattle take Jalen Carter at 5. I don't think this would be a fit though.

Pete and John typically like high character guys. I get we need help on the D-line, but we've signed some guys and do not think it would be worth putting a bad character guy in the locker room. However, it could have just been a bad incident and help them get back. I don't know. Your thoughts? Well, I would say Pete's taking some flyers over the years. Let's not act like Pete, you know, is running the Princeton football program here.

They traded for Percy Harvin. They drafted Frank Clark. You know, they've done their fair share of character guys. There's got to be a couple other ones that aren't coming to mind. Not saying Pete is like a renegade. You know, I'm not claiming to be like Jimmy Johnson at the University. University of Miami. But I don't think they're just purely

high character guys. I do think this would fit. Pete has taken reclamation projects in college at USC, which I think kind of fits the mold of getting this elite player, get them in their culture.

I think that's a discussion they're having. And I think everyone, I would say in that top 10, you know, basically after the quarterbacks, if we assume the quarterbacks go, let's just say they go,

through four, which, you know, typically it doesn't happen like that, but I'd say a couple years ago, remember it went Trevor, Zach Wilson, Trey Lance. So the first position player was the fourth player. Even if it goes like that, if you're drafting three or four through 10, up until like the Eagles, you've got to have very, very serious conversations. If Jalen Carter is on the board, do we take them? To me, there is either like, if you're in the top 15, you're having like, is he on our draft board or is he not? I mean like in the first round. If he's there, because this is no

brander, he's going to be the highest rated player. What do we take him? Because there's, the discussion has to happen before the draft. You could argue basically every team drafting in the first round is having that conversation. What if he falls? Do we pull the trigger? Because if he falls past five, he's the best player on the board. And to me, that's a conversation that's probably with Pete and John, it's happening with those two. But every team, their coach and general manager having that conversation. And whoever does the SEC for that team,

you know, is being, I would say asked, being told to accumulate information to become like CSI, go be a detective, go to Athens, Georgia, find as much information as we can.

My head of security is dealing with the police using his connections because we got to find, out what the issue is there with him. Is this habitual? Has there been several issues? Because let's face it.

In cities like that, stuff gets swept under the rug. In the SEC, in these big college programs, the Big Ten, Big 12, when you're a star and the program is dominating, stuff doesn't get reported. But that's the reason that you have scouts. That's why I say they're underpaid. The good ones get that information. So they can go to the GM and the head coach and they go, listen. there's seven other instances.

And you go, holy shit, we can't touch this guy. Or you go, listen. I've been around this program for a decade. Every single person I know that gives me good information, they actually feel pretty good about this guy. But that's the scout's job. Because the head coach, he's going to watch Jalen Carter draft as high as possible.

Okay, I've got a three-parter for this week. Geez, Louise. Okay, let's just read. I'm going to read I'll read the middle one I can't read all three questions I'll read the first two Lamar Jackson is the sixth best quarterback

in the AFC Borough Allen Herbert Lawrence Lamar oh Mahomes I didn't read him he's the second best quarterback in the division and the Ravens won Super Bowls with Dilfer and Flacco and they've proven that they do not need

an all pro quarterback because he isn't their franchise identity I don't believe Lamar is going to come out on the other side of this on the upper hand unless he can end up on a team like the Colts who value the quarterback position above anything else.

I'm going to push back. I think the Ravens value Lamar given that they built the offense around the guy, but I think Flacco was not a highly paid guy when they won the Super Bowl, and obviously Trent Dilfer wasn't either. Beside Mahomes, these 40-45 million-dollar quarterbacks have not been rattling off Super Bowls. Now, Joe Burrow, about to get paid.

Josh Allen got paid. We'll see, I mean, Josh Allen says, been paid, they haven't exactly been in the AMC championship game or the Super Bowl. We're going to see once Joe Burrow and Higgins get paid, like, does their team look the same? Secondly, I don't see team wins as a quarterback stat as people do. Due to instances like Derek Carr's record, which is terrible, but he is one of the most clutch and steady-handed quarterbacks in the league.

And Jimmy G. is worse than he is, but he has more wins. So is Lamar having a win percentage of around 70% really relevant to the discussions around his contract. I think the key is you've got to watch the player. Like when you watch Lamar and he's been healthy, for the most of his career, he's been an ass-kicking winning player. When you watch Jimmy Garoppel,

he's obviously benefited from being on a good team. But he's not terrible. When you watch Derek Carr, I think that's worthy argument. I understand both sides. Derek's very talented. When Derek plays well, he looks like a top 10 quarterback.

When he plays bad, he's awful. So I think the key is to put every quarterback when you're evaluating them for a contract in a vacuum and just evaluate them. How good's the guy? If you're a good quarterback, your team's going to win. There aren't many really good quarterbacks who always lose.

Right now, you could argue a lot of good quarterbacks are on good organizations. Matt Stafford, pretty good quarterback, right? How good he is. It's up for debate. bad organization, but they made the playoffs several times when he was with the Lions. Right? Like is Gino Smith a good player? Or did he benefit from playing on an offense that had a star young running back in Kenneth Walker, DJ Metcalf, Tyler Lockett, two good young tackles?

I don't know. You know, this is why sports arguments are entertaining. But like, why have the Packers won for 30 years? We've had Brett Farvin, Aaron Rogers. You know, why did Peyton Manning win? fucking Peyton Manning and he dominates. You put Peyton Manning with any team he's going to win. Right? Tom Brady, you could have put him with, you put them in the Lions this year. The Lions are winning 13 games. So quarterbacks,

I hear you, it's not a win or lost at. If you have the worst defense of all time, your team's going to struggle. But look at Justin Herbert. Over the last two years, they've had been one of the worst run defense in the league. Last year, the defense was pretty bad. This year got better the second half of the season.

And what? They won 10 games this year. He's won 19 games in two years. Right? I mean, he's a big reason they win. His team wins. So, I kind of see it go both ways. Yo, bro, do you think they may have been the Ravens medical staff

that has told the team something that makes them not guarantee him as much money? And that they just put this type of tag on him so they wouldn't hinder him getting money he could return as well. I'm referring to Lamar. Yeah, I, I, I, I, think we're over-complicating this. I think it's a pretty simple business. I think they know no team wants to trade two first-round picks and give him $200 million.

So if me or you ran the Ravens, and we had drafted Lamar Jackson, and like most people that have been around Lamar Jackson, they really like Lamar Jackson. He's a very likable guy. His teammates like him. When he's on the field, he's been really good. He's a type guy. You feel great about drafting. Like, once you make the pick, I mean, at the time.

I didn't feel great about drafting him. But once you draft him, you're glad you have them, and then he exceeds your expectations. But this is a business. Like, who am I competing against for his services? He's not a true free agent, so I don't need to bid against myself. Every team in the league can bid for his services now.

They just also have to give two first-round picks, and they're not doing it. So I'd argue the Ravens are just making a prudent decision. They are just being... I think the media thinks that, like, just pay everybody! That's not possible. possible. Like, I like paying premiums to really good players. Lamar is that. But like,

Lamar, what are you going to do? Are you just going to wait this thing out? You're going to be franchised the next couple of years? Because that kind of feels like where we're headed. Question for the mailbag. I'm a professional track and field athlete and I'm always frustrated by my sports lack of foresight when it comes to things like legalized gambling. Track could basically be human horse racing, as well as using digital broadcasting. If you're a commissioner of a small sports league, what would you do to try and grow it to a broader audience and expand the revenue?

Love the show, bro, from Idaho. Get a picture, this guy looks like a track star. Ben, appreciate the question. You know, as someone that loves to gamble, never really been that big into the ponies, not against the ponies, like would gladly go to Del Mar or the Kentucky Derby or the Preakness or whatever. I just never have.

So maybe part of it is just I've never been a part of it. I do think the one thing with horse racing is a little unique. Horse racing and betting are just are synonymous, right? You go to the track to gamble on the horses. You don't go to the track in the Olympics to gamble. Now, as gambling has become legal, it obviously should become part of the sport. But I think you read a book based on like the 1800s or the early 1900s before like the Great Depression, horse racing and gambling. It's like boxing and gambling.

It's the easiest thing to bet on. Who's going to win the race? Who's going to win the fight? But I think when it comes to like Hussein Bolt or whoever in the Olympics, it's kind of an acquired taste. I see it with basketball and baseball. It's like we could have in-game betting. Will a home run be hit this inning? Which in theory sounds great,

but the consumer is not wired to do this. Where in football, we are wired to bet on one team based on the point spread. In the other sports, it's kind of an acquired taste. Like, I hear what you're saying. It's just humans racing, but it's not part of our mindset. So I think part of it, like, listen, gambling is really big.

Sports gambling is really big in this country because of football. People are not gambling on basketball and baseball anywhere close to what they do in the NFL. So while you listen to this show and you listen to all these shows and they talk about gambling, the proportion of the money that us gamblers bet in the pie chart is so high in taking up so much space, for the sport of football, we're not betting these other sports. You know, like, and I get it. People got to make a living,

and these companies do, and I understand it, but most people are not betting on some random game on Tuesday, a baseball game, right? Now, I get these people that do it for a living and have these gambling companies got to talk about it,

but it's going to be hard to, like, why should I? And I don't know. I mean, I guess I didn't answer your question. I don't know how you do it. Because at one point in time, Olympic sports, right? Bruce Jenner once was one of the most famous athletes in America, whenever he won, right, whatever that was. It was in 1976. I just think times change.

I don't know if there's much you can do, but you could argue there's definitely an upside. I don't know much about track and field. I was slow, so I'd never even participated. But I like golf, and I push gambling on golf, but I gamble on golf, and it's relatively easy to do. Every week, event, you can gamble on who gets top 10, who gets top 20. I guess a lot like racing. I don't know if it's really possible to be honest with you to make it that big. I think it really is pretty difficult because one, for you to be big, part of the reason horse racing in 2023 is big because a lot of people watch the Kentucky Derby, right? People, there's a party around it, right? A couple years ago, I went to a Kentucky Derby party in the Bay Area.

It was fun. Everyone dressed up, got wasted, it was cool. So the gambling is built in, and then we bet at the squares. You know, you got to have built-in events. And I just think that's difficult. Maybe you get famous people to push it. I think part of it you got to have some star power. You know, could you get some really, like Hussein Bolt became a really big deal.

When I was a kid, I'll never forget the 96 Olympics in Michael Johnson and the gold cleats. you know, can you get stars? Like, why don't we bet on tennis? Right? We should, tennis should be a very bettable sport. We need some more star power. Federer is basically retiring. Djokovic is getting older.

Rafa's getting older. You know, like, think about if gambling was big in those guys' heyday. Gambling on Rafa versus Federer versus Djokovic. We're back in the day like Pete Sampras versus Andre Agassi. Star power is big. That's a long-winded way. I don't even know if I answered your question. I'm sorry.

if I didn't. I'm not meant to be the commissioner of the track and field league, that's for sure. Will Lamar Jackson play the season on the non-exclusive tag? Assuming no long-term deal gets done with Baltimore or some other team? If so, what would just push this madness to the next off season?

To me, it doesn't seem impossible to pull the plug on Jackson and start over at quarterback if I'm the Ravens. They were able to win some games and get to the playoffs without him. One thing if I'm the Ravens, I think was the third straight. quarterback. Anthony Richardson, I don't know if that's his name because that's the quarterback of Florida's name, but he was the quarterback the year before at Oregon, and obviously their backup

Tyler Huntley, those guys were not good in college. Like Tyler Huntley, his stats aren't bad at Utah, but if you watch Utah play, like, there wasn't a soul that thought he could be an NFL quarterback. And Richardson in Oregon was horrendous. So if you're the Ravens, you're going, obviously we're really good when we got Lamar. But we could be competitive with random guys at quarterback. I don't think that bodes well for Lamar from the Raven standpoint. The landscape might change between now

and you're reading this for the mailbag, but as of now, Rogers hasn't been traded, but the Jets are signing a bunch of his former teammates in an effort to get Rogers over. If he's playing fantasy GM, thoughts. Well, so far it's just Alan Lazzard, right? And even he said on Pat McAfee,

like, Alan Lazzard's a good player. High character guy, hard worker, productive player for a good team. So I don't think signing Alan Lazzard is that weird. Now, the Jets didn't really need them. They got Elijah Moore, they got Garrett Wilson, they had Corey Davis under contract.

So, like, that position was pretty sured up for them. Now, if Aaron Rogers wants Alan Lazzard, and if that helps make him happy, I would do it too. Now, the Mercedes, Lewis, Randall Cobb, you know, we eventually got to draw the line. And the one thing, and listen, I defend Aaron Rogers, but

Aaron never's like, yeah, you know, I might have fucked up there. Yeah, you know, I might have overstep there. He will never say that. It's always like, those idiots, what Schepter saying, bullshit. It can't all be a lie. You know, some of it, sure, but it can't all be. It can't all just be made up on Twitter. Some of this stuff has to be true.

And it doesn't feel like Aaron Rogers ever takes accountability. And I know some people thought, you know, was he too? arrogant saying he's arguably the greatest Packer of all time. I don't think that's that crazy of a statement. Before Aaron Rogers existed, he'd be like, who's the best packer of all time? You'd have been like, Brett Farv.

Well, Aaron Rogers, I think we all agree, is a better player than Brett Farv. So if Aaron Rogers is better than Brett Farv, like, who's the argument? Reggie White? Well, for a long portion of Reggie White's career, he played for the Eagles. Now, Bart Starr,

we'd have to get, like, Belichick, you know, Bill Parcells to talk some of that era. but I think of the last like 40 years I don't even think it's close you know I really don't of course Air Rogers the best player in the history of the franchise is it arrogant to say something that's true

like if Peyton Manning was like you know I think I'm the best player in the history of the Colts like that's an arrogant thing to say you'd be like yeah he's right if Michael Jordan or Tom Brady said it we'd all agree but like where's the line of delineation

that you're not allowed to say it right could Fred Warner say, you know, I think I'm better than Patrick Willis where people are like, I don't know. Clearly some of these guys believe it. That's the way they're wired. That's what they have to believe.

This is the highest level. This is the NFL. So obviously Aaron Rogers is one of the best players ever, but I think a lot of really good players believe that like, yeah, I'm better than that guy. I hope you're thinking that, whoever you're competing against. I know I try to think that about myself.

It doesn't mean there's also some security behind it, but you also kind of have to believe it if you're going to have some success. Okay, this is from Austin. First time mailbag, heard about you through Collins podcast. Great listening. Appreciate you. As a Panthers fan, do you think that Frank was on board with the decision to move up to number one? Does he like CJ Stroud? Stroud has the prototypical built. If so, you believe the Panthers could somehow smokeshrew Houston into trading up for number one to secure Bryce, if that is Houston's guy. Thanks.

I can't remember who I heard say this. It might have been Albert Breyer. Someone just rattled off all the quarterbacks, Frank, as coach. And the overwhelming majority of them, now he's only been the head coach in Indy, but when he was a coordinator at multiple spots, were really big quarterbacks. Philip Rivers, Carson Wentz,

Philip Rivers again, Matt Ryan, Carson Wentz again, Nick Foles, Jacobi Brissette, Andrew Luck. He likes big physical quarterbacks. Google Frank. It's a big SOB.

He's not a small guy. For the most part, when you meet a big guy in sports, they typically like other big players. Smaller guys might be more open-minded to both body types, but if you're a big quarterback, you're going to like other big quarterbacks.

Right? Like John Elway or Peyton Manning, they are typically not going to go after short quarterbacks. Why? They're big elite like body types. So that's who they're going to be inclined to like because that's who they were. So I think most people feel that Frank,

who really nice guy, one thing I've heard is, you know, he's not a big like take a stand guy. He'll kind of go with the flow. And just who's pushing this? I think it's fair to say the owner pushed this trade. Go get me. a young star franchise quarterback.

Now, did they have a guy that they traded up to get? All reports seem to indicate that's not the case. So maybe they wanted to get up to figure out who they were going to end up drafting. Which, C.J. Stroud, what's he, like, 6'3, prototypical pocket quarterback, who showed in the Georgia game that he can move, and then the two kind of moldable big physical guys,

Anthony Richardson and Will Levis. so if my money would be on one of those three, not Bryce, and then Bryce ends up with Houston. John heard people saying that the Jags are going to be a legitimate contender next year with 12 plus wins. I was wondering what your take on the Jags upcoming season. Well, I think Trevor Lawrence took a massive step this year. So if Trevor Lawrence goes from really good second year player

to pro bowler, just pulling up his stats. So last year's rookie year was a disaster, Urban Meyer, 12 and 17, under 60%. This year, breakout year. 66%, 25 touchdowns, 8 interceptions. Well, think about next year. You add Calvin Ridley. Christian Kirk is comfortable in the offense.

Maybe you add another running back to go with ETN. If your defense improves, him and Doug more on the same page, the division gets shittier. Tennessee's not going to be as good. Houston is still figuring things out that they're not very good. And who am I missing? Houston, Tennessee, Jacksonville, Indy. I mean, they're kind of doing a rebuild.

I don't think it's inconceivable. They could be like a five-win team in the division, right? Go five-and-one. And all of a sudden, maybe you're looking at 11 wins. I think every single human, including myself, is going to pick them to win the division. And I think a big reason why is they have the best quarterback in the division. and it wasn't that long ago that we kind of universally agreed

maybe there's some people listening to this that didn't but I would say universally in the NFL pundits talking about it in the NFL college football Trevor Lawrence was an elite prospect and after year one it was ugly but everyone shit on Irvin Meyer and rightfully so turns out they were right because you put it with a real coach the kids pretty good and I think that playoff game

you know you learn so much about someone when shit hits the fan I don't care what you do for a living When things are going well Everyone is going to be smiling Chest out Some people are more cocky than others Some people are more humble than others

But like you can't really judge anyone When things are going well But I definitely can judge you when things go wrong You throw four picks in your first ever playoff game Like I would understand if you go into the tank He didn't just not only go into the tank He came out guns blazing through four touchdowns Maybe it was three touchdowns

I'm pretty sure it was four touchdowns, yeah. Maybe he ran for one. I'm not having the box score in front of me. But you know what I mean? It was an incredible, incredible bounceback half. Honestly, it makes me believe in the kid more. I mean, if you told me, I think most people that evaluated him coming out

goes, he could win an MVP in the NFL. Now, I don't think he's going to win an MVP next year, but like he has that type upside. And when you have a quarterback with that type upside, high character guy, I don't even think it's just going to be next year. I mean, I don't see why they can't sustain winning for a while. They got the quarterback, they got some talent around him.

He's got a draft well. And that was the one reason that the 49ers under Trent Balke kind of fell apart. He didn't draft well. So if they can just draft well, they're not going to go away. Appreciate everyone listening. Have a great week. Golf podcast out on Wednesday. Another podcast out Friday.

Let's keep rocking and rolling. Peace. The volume. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guidance. Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

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