The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 3 and Out - Hopkins/Cook Pay Cut,  AFC Playoff Pressure, Luck HOF Debate, Mailbag

Episode Date: July 11, 2023

John explains why DeAndre Hopkins and Dalvin Cook need to come to terms with taking a healthy pay cut, which teams have the most pressure to make the playoffs in the stacked AFC, and why Andrew Luck isn’t a Hall of Famer. He also answers listener questions in the Middlekauff Mailbag. Follow John onTwitter, Instagram and YouTube for the latest. Check out Gametime - the fastest growing ticketing app in the US, and the official ticketing app of 3 & Out and GoLow -  for tickets to all of your favorite NFL, NBA, NHL, NCAA teams. Concert and comedy show tickets, too. Go to Gametime now to create an account, download the app and use code JOHN for $20 off your first purchase. #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Yep, that's me, Clivert Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. The volume. What is going on, everybody, John Middlecock, three and out podcast. Hopefully everyone is having a good Tuesday. Maybe a good Wednesday at the podcast. You can listen to it whenever you want. If you miss it on Monday, we had Volume College Football Snaps, host with Aaron Murray, T. Bob A Bear on who was fantastic. He played at LSU. His dad, Bobby A Bear, a long time NFL quarterback.

He's die hard by you guy, but knows the SEC. I mean, played for your starter at LSU. No big deal. Went to a national championship. Was involved in a couple really, really good teams. Just has some really good stories. And he's a natural entertainer. I highly recommend it. If you haven't listened to their college football podcast, snaps. Go check it out. it's good. And college football is right around the corner. Just like the NFL. That's why we're going to talk some NFL today. DeAndre Hopkins, Dalvin Cook.

Not happy with the numbers there being offered. Some thoughts on the AFC. It's really pretty fascinating. What a conference. I mean, they're going to be some disappointed teams. Andrew Luck now officially Hall of Fame eligible. It's pretty crazy.

He's been gone for a while. Some other quarterback thoughts. We are also going to have a mail bag. And the mailbag, the easiest way to get on the show, I'm going to need a lot more of your mailbag questions. Slow time of year. We like to interact with the people at John Middlecoff. At John Middlecoff is the Instagram.

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as I told Colin we're allowed to wear backwards hats you guys with hair put some gel in it baby but let's dive into the show but first I got to tell you about the official ticketing app of this podcast. It's game time.

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Obviously right now is a little bit of a slow time in the old football calendar. A lot of guys, whoever your favorite team is, I'm sure you follow those guys on Instagram. They're in Cabo. They're in Europe. They're hanging out. This is a time when people take a deep breath. Probably work out a little bit on the side,

but definitely hang out their family and friends. And it's really a three or four true week break before all hell breaks loose and training camp starts. And clearly the two biggest names that are just out there right now are Dalvin Cook and DeAndre Hopkins. And anytime I see a headline, They are not happy with the offers they're getting. Well, of course not.

One guy's used to making about $13 million a year. And the other guys used to making $20. No human likes to take a big pay cut. Well, I got news for both of them. They're going to have to. But as of right now, free agency is just about supply and demand. Why did Mike McGlinchie get $50 million guaranteed?

Is he a $50 million player? Of course not. But you couldn't pay him $38, because someone was willing to pay him 43 and then someone else would be like, well, we'll pay him 46. And it gets driven up because there are multiple teams bidding on their services. That's why guys in free agency, who many are considered average or slightly above average, get paid like premium players. And it's why most premium players never become available.

Why? Because they are taking care of before they ever get there because teams don't want to get into a bidding war. It's why you see when players get mad over the franchise tag. they can't just kind of put out their services to have teams bidding on them. It's why we often argue about how much this guy's worth, how much that guy should have got paid or that guy got paid too much. It's just a natural conversation when you hit the open market. Well, once the open market happens, money gets spent.

And then this thing called the draft comes where teams that aren't able to fill their needs in free agency kind of double down with much cheaper. labor. And then after the draft happens, OTAs is pretty laid back, man. Most of these teams practiced at most 10 times. Some of them were canceling to go to water parks, water balloon fights, and barbecues. This is not 1978 anymore. Everyone's making so much money, usually spirits are very high come late April, May, and clearly into June before summer break. So most teams don't feel this sense of desperation, right? Because the other thing with football, unlike basketball, where I can just summer league happens,

I go, yeah, I don't really love what I see there. I don't know if this guy's going to be able to translate. Even if we argue it's real basketball or not, they're still able to play five on five. In football, you can only play, I mean, truly play with pads on. Otherwise, you can't run the ball. You can't tackle. You can't do the majority of things. that are involved with come playing Friday night, Saturday night, and Sunday.

It's why once training camp happens, moods change. So right now, guys like Dalvin Cook and DeAndre Hopkins, who have proven to be winning players, like both guys have been really high-end players on playoff teams. I value that. And I know teams in the NFL value it. It's one thing to put up stats on a shitty team. Like, are you a winner or are you just a hollow stat guy?

Now, you can argue in football, it's a little more difficult. But still, like, if you're putting up stats, even if you are kind of a crazy guy, even if you got some baggage, even if you got some injury concerns, if you produce on winning teams, like, that's impressive. That is clearly very hard to do. And both guys have shown that. But I would say here's the issue. One, Dalvin Cooks are running back.

And DeAndre Hopkins is an older, slower, wide receiver. Now, he's always been slow. but the older you get, the more difficult becomes, especially when you got some baggage. And last year, he was suspended for PEDs. Like, that's not an ideal situation. Now, that doesn't mean teams would want these guys. If they had been both free agents, March 15th, I guarantee you they would be on teams. But as we're sitting here in late June, early July, whether it's Belichick, whether it's Mike Vrable,

whether it's Andy Reed or Sean McDermann, there is no sense of urgency. to quote unquote overpay for these guys. So to me, I think if both these guys are going to want to maximize their value, because if either of them, if DeAndre Hopkins goes, I just want to go to the best chance to win. I'll take three or four million dollars from Kansas City or Buffalo, incentivize my contract where if I'm a pro bowler, or if I catch 90 balls, I can make 10.

Two guys aren't used to having to do that. Like DeAndre Hopkins last contract was basically fully guaranteed every single year. he's been used to going in seasons going, I'm making 19.5 this bad boy. Just like Dalvin Cook's used to going into seasons going, yeah, I'm making $13 million. That's what high-end players get to do. But it changes fast in the NFL.

And I saw several years ago when Seattle cut Richard Sherman. Now, he was coming off an Achilles injury. People didn't know if he'd ever get back. Teams were very, very interested on incentive lace deals. And he essentially kind of signed when he negotiated himself. And a couple years later, he's an all pro. One of the best players on the 49ers. They're in the Super Bowl.

It worked out very, very well. But players tend to have to be like they're back against the wall to do something like that. And clearly these guys, especially DeAndre Hopkins, feels like, yeah, I'm not signing a deal for six or seven million dollars. Well, then they're probably not signing a deal until someone gets injured come training camp. Because that will create some desperation on the side that right now has all the leverage. the teams. Because the moment, and I talked to Colin about this a couple weeks ago, right now you are bullish on your second year players that look good in OTAs, some of your draft picks based on shorts and t-shirts. But that can change come two weeks

into pads where you go, this guy's not even close to be ready. This guy might have to go on practice squad or this guy is going to be someone we're not able to cut because he's a second a round pick, but he's not going to be active on game day. And it immediately changes our course of action when it comes to our roster. And that creates guys like Dalvin Cook or DeAndre Hopkins, they get a little leverage back. Let's face it, the best thing that can happen to either one of those guys is a major injury in training camp to a wide receiver or a running back on a big time squad. Because all those teams want to win and compete for the Super Bowl. Right. And we're talking a group of probably eight to 10 teams.

And I think the Patriots involved in DeAndre Hopkins have desperation. Like they're not going to win the Super Bowl, but there is definitely some desperation to make the playoffs. So if they get into training camp and they know, God, we're not going to be good enough on offense. Now you could argue that happened last year, Belichick didn't give a shit. Clearly, I think there's a little more urgency there now. And I think the same thing with DeAndre Hopkins when it comes to Andy Reid comes

to training camp and maybe Sky Moore or some other guys that they're depending on to go along with Travis Kelsey, they don't feel are good enough that maybe it creates a little urgency in their building. Or Buffalo, if dig situation kind of carries over, that will create a stronger market for Hopkins and maybe can get them more money. But right now, if they're going to sign before training camp starts, they're going to take a huge, huge pay cut. Now, you can argue they're not getting anything. I mean, they're on the open market. But just put it, Bunny's all relative. If you're making 150 grand right now, you don't want to go back to making 60, right? You don't don't want to go back to make an 80 until you have to and you don't have a choice. It's no different

if you're a guy making $20 million a year. It's not easy to go like, hey, we'll sign you from $4.5 million and incentivize that bad boy up to 11. Doesn't sound as enticing until you realize that's my only option. And I think we're a long way away from both those guys realizing I only have one option. Because right now they're going. Multiple teams are talking to me. Just wait. And I do think that is the right move. And I wanted to bring something brought to you by quarterback, the new Netflix docu-series. And I love coming into a draft talking about just that position, right? It's the most fascinating position. It's the most talked about position. It's the highest paid position. There's most famous guys in America, that NBA stars, right? Actors. And it's the thing that makes quarterback the most

unique. Let's just look at the two greatest quarterbacks in the history of the sport before this kind of generation. I'm going to throw Patrick Mahomes in there. But Joe Montana, Tom Brady. They both went to the perfect coach. Bill Walsh was an offensive genius who was kind of tight, who ultimately retired because of stress. What's Joe Montana's nickname? Joe Cool. They balanced each other out. They were tailor-made in football heaven for each other. Let's look at Tom Brady and Bill Belichick. Most people made fun of Bill Belichick. Couldn't communicate. Couldn't get it done.

Turns out that guy behind the scenes was driven and as smart as any human in the history of sports. Tom Brady. This guy, look at his combined picture. He couldn't even start at Michigan. And then they get together and they're easily the greatest combination in the history of the league. When you look at Patrick Mahomes and Andy Reid, it just feels like they were made for each other.

And this is always the argument. Would Joe Montana of Ben Joe Montana without Bill Walsh? I don't know. Would Tom Brady have been Tom Brady without Bill Belichick? I doubt it. Now, I'm not acting like either guy would have just, you know, been out of the league in three or four years. But the chances that we would view them as like the first and second greatest quarterbacks of all time, I'm going to say bullshit. Now, Patrick Mahomes, if Andy Reid had never lived and you just got him into the NFL, physically he has remarkable.

skills, right? He is more physically gifted than either Joe Montana or Tom Brady, right? He's as athletic as Joe Montana, but he can make throws that even Tom Brady cannot make. Now, it doesn't mean that he's going to win six Super Bowls or whatever, or that he would ever win a Super Bowl if he just got coached by, I don't know, pick a random coach. What if Jonathan Gannon was his coach? What if Frank Reich was his coach? What if Pete Carroll was his coach? Andy Reed, who learned the sport of football at BYU back in the 80s, early 80s, who were throwing it when every school was running it and then really came into his prime in his NFL career around Brett Forf. So this guy was wired as a coach to let a guy like Mahomes kind of just let him be pretty

artistic as a player. And I think the one thing all three guys have in common, and I hope this shows in the docu-series, and I'm sure it will, is how much guys love them. Joe Montana, I used to be in the Bay Area and interview guys, RIP, Dwight Clark, Ronnie Lott, Harris Barton, whoever, these guys swore by Joe Montana as a guy. They were so close with the player. Tom Brady for years, and still to this day, is known as the greatest teammate of all time. I think a couple weeks ago, Travis Kelsey goes, I know I take more money, but I value winning. You know what is essentially saying?

I value being around Patrick Mahomes and Andy Reed. And I think the power is a quarterback to be a great teammate, to be the most like guy on your team. Leadership isn't just, not every quarterback is just a natural leader. Like Aaron Rogers has battled it over the years. Right. Historically, some guys that have been great players like, you know, Dan Marino, whoever, I don't know, or Harold did it as like the guy everyone's following. But I think all three of those quarterbacks, Montana, clearly Brady and obviously Mahomes, have this innate quality as a guy.

Regardless of the fame, regardless of the fortune, all the success, all the pressure to just be well-liked. And I think that's a big part of what makes them unique as players. As Netflix's first partnership with the NFL, quarterback is a new docus series that takes a unique look at each season told through the lens of NFL quarterbacks. For the first time ever, Patrick Mahomes, Kirk Cousins, and Marcus Marriota are miced up. every single game of the season for an unprecedented look on and off the field. NFL films partnering with Omaha productions led by a pretty decent quarterback himself, Peyton Manning. I can't wait for the quarterback docu series.

Let's take a in-depth early look at the trailer. Netflix is giving you exclusive access to see what it takes to be an NFL quarterback. I'm here all day. See Kirk Cousins, Marcus Marietta, and Super Bowl champions. Patrick Mahomes, balance all the pressures that come with the toughest job in sports. Quarterback is more about the mental side. From game day to home life, see these quarterbacks like you've never seen them before. Let's put it all together for four quarters.

Quarterback, only on Netflix, July 12th. One thing I've been thinking about is the AFC. It really is pretty crazy when you look at how stacked it is, how much talent, how much high-end coaching how much teams are paying quarterbacks. And I think Brian Winhorse has always talked about this in the NBA. You know, at a season, so many teams are paying so many

top end players so much money. Well, not every team's able to make playoff runs. In the NBA, it's easier to make the playoffs because more than half the teams do. And now with, you know, the playing games, basically two thirds of the league makes it. In the NFL, that's not the case. Especially

with the new added team. Like, it feels like that one extra team. A lot of good teams are still missing. And when you look at the AFC, I think there are four teams who are, I think you have to view as a lock to make the playoffs. Clearly the chiefs who have well established themselves as they're making the playoffs every year, whether it's Alex Smith and now definitely with Patrick Mahomes. I know, and I heard Colin and a lot of people are kind of putting a red flag around the bills. And I get that.

But I think they've earned the benefit of the doubt. They're a lock playoff team. They've gone 13, 11, and 13 in the last three years. And they have one of the best players who, who happens to be a quarterback in the NFL and Josh Allen. The Bengals, same thing. Right? To me, those three teams are locks.

Now, I don't know Bengals, would I bet my life savings or the bills they're winning their division? No, but I'm viewing them as a playoff team. It's a little harder. I don't like putting this team in this class, but I think when you factor in the division, I'm going to look at the Jacksonville Jags like a lock playoff team. They have a Super Bowl winning coach,

and they have a quarterback who is, whose arrows pointed straight at the moon. So I got four teams, Only seven can make it. Well, look around the rest of the conference. The Jets just traded for fucking Aaron Rogers. The dolphins are all in. They're paying Fangio.

They traded for Jalen Ramsey. Last year they made the trade for Tyree Kill. Pittsburgh, if you listen to the interview with Cam Hayward, he's pretty bullish on the team. Put my hand up. So am I. But a lot of pressure on Kenny Pickett taking a big step. The Ravens just gave Lamar Jackson a boatload of money.

Hell, they gave a guy who's barely played. the last couple years, Odo Beckham, $15 million. And then the Chargers, who have absolutely no business to not make the playoffs. Hell, if I like their coach better, I might pick them to win the Super Bowl. But when you look at all these teams aren't going to make it. And then when you factor in how much money the Walton family just gave Sean Payton, they traded half their draft for Russell Wilson. They're paying him $40 million a year.

You look at, you know, there's got to be some pressure on the Raiders. Are you just going to suck forever? Super Bowls in Las Vegas. So something's got to give. Hell, the Browns traded how many first round picks and gave a quarterback $230 million. We know for a fact, all these teams I'm listing are not going to make the playoffs. And I do think there are going to be heads rolling if that's the case. If you look at the Chargers, they don't make it like he's done.

He's done. Now, one kicker I would have, if their offense is a lot better than it has, been or just we view it as more consistent and Herbert keeps kicking ass and the defense is the reason that they let them down and maybe they go nine and eight and they miss it by a game. I would say Kellyn Moore would have a chance to be the next head coach there. But I would say like that's a team that the head coach is getting fired. Same thing with the Jets, right? If they don't make the playoffs after trading for this guy, you could see a complete house

gleating. And Rogers any moment, if they don't make the playoffs, who's to say that he wouldn't just retire? You look at the dolphins. I'm starting to come around a little bit on them when you just factor in. They have Mike White as a backup. I have no faith in two is staying healthy. I understand he's been doing this Taekwondo.

He's bulked up. I do think that's a position, like the position of just getting tackled as a quarterback, is not something you can really prevent. If your offensive line sucks, you're going to get hit. We'll talk about Andrew Luck here in a little bit. Andrew Luck was dramatically big.

bigger than Tua. He got hit all the time. Now, you could argue he probably was a little more reckless than Tua. There are some things you can do like the Peyton Manning just hit the ground. But if you're going to get sacked, you're going to get sacked sometimes. And the smaller you are, the more likely you are to just get slammed to the ground. You've seen the size of some of these dudes coming in, they are massive. The defensive tackles coming in the league, Jalen Carter's, I mean, they do not look like normal human beings. And relative to Tua, like, I just have no faith that he can't. Now, they advocate fan Gio, their defense in theory should be better. Maybe we know how good. Like, I have a lot of respect for Tyree Kill. I think a lot of people, and I probably, I don't want to say he

would have mailed it in, but I was expecting him to kind of go into cruise control, like the equivalent of golf, like the champions tour, just kind of kick it. He'd already won a Super Bowl. He'd already kind of established himself as a Hall of Fame player. You get all this money. You go back to Miami. You just put up some numbers kind of hang out. I thought he played like a complete badass last year. So his competitive character, no wonder he messed with Mahomes and those guys. We know how good Waddle is. McDaniel's clearly a pretty good offensive schemer. You get Vic Fangio, their talents right up there. So you could argue they've proven more as a coaching staff now adding Vic than the Jets coaches. I have more faith in Rogers,

a ton of pressure, but something's got to give between those two teams. I don't think the Patriots are going to be on their level, but Belichick. is kind of the X factor. The defense and the special teams always keeps them in games. They make it ugly. Can their offense be a lot better with Bill O'Brien? I know everyone thinks Bill O'Brien's the village idiot. And listen, he's a terrible general manager. A great example of why coaches should not be GMs. I would say in any sport, but definitely in the NFL. But he's not a bad coach. He's not a bad coach at all. And their offense, just with him, relative to Matt fucking Patricia should be, I mean, leaps and bounds better. The Steelers and the Ravens fall in.

the category of their standards are just really high. They really are. And the Steelers, you can't really, and Cam and I talked about this, every year's a new year. So the previous momentum, if you finish the playoffs,

but you win the last five games, who cares? Like, you could lose the last four games of the regular season, but if you make the playoffs and then end up in the conference championship game, you had a much better season

than a team that like the Steelers finished seven and two, but missed the playoffs. The one thing I would say, though, for their momentum is their quarterback really, really showed signs of life. Right?

That was a big question. I was not a huge Kenny Pickett guy. He's not really my cup of tea of players because he has limited physical skill set when it comes to his arm. Though he had multiple comebacks,

showed, you know, the ability to become cool and collected in a very physical division. The one thing I will give him is he's used to playing in the cold and clearly that did not affect him. The game against the Raiders was ice cold.

What was that Christmas Eve? there was another game late in the season against the Ravens. So you got to be able to play in the Colt. He's never going to be Big Ben with an arm. But you don't really have to be there. You just got to distribute to their talented wide receivers. Their offensive line should be better. Najee Harris,

I'm a huge fan of. If they can just block for him and he can stay healthy, he could have a big year and defensively, I mean, they got star players at every position. And the same with the Ravens. So it's just going to come down to, is their passing game dramatically improved?

teams love to be like, this is the year when we just pass. Like, wait, Lamar's just not going to run it. He's one of the greatest running quarterbacks. Let me, let me rephrase that. He's one of the greatest running players we've ever seen. I mean, think like Walter Payton, Barry Sanders. Lamar Jackson with the ball in his hands in the open field is easily like a top five, 10 player of all time.

You put the ball in his hands with him running downhill. His ability to make guys miss, his top end speed. It's just, it's beyond electric. It's, it's all-time elite NFL stuff. So now you're just going to force him to be a passer. Now, big picture to be a great player and sustain in the NFL, you have to transition. But it's going to be awfully interesting, the push and pull between the two, right? Is he force feeding it?

I saw it a long time ago with Kaepernick. They paid him some money and they tried to go like spread passing offense and it did not work. And it's not like they had nobody. They had Crabtree. They had Vernon Davis. Frank Gore could catch the ball out of the backfield. They had guys and it just didn't work. Now, Lamar is a better passer than him, but you sign Odell, you drafted a first round receiver last year.

You got Mark Andrews. It's going to be fascinating to watch. I was thinking about this the other day. Like the Chargers, that game that they lost in the playoffs is just, that's just classic as Arnold Schwarzenegger, which is a fantastic documentary. Highly recommended. Arnold is just, he's a beauty. Oh, the Chad just.

it's pretty crazy that they lost that game. Sometimes it hits me. God, did they lose the game where Trevor Lawrence through four interceptions in the first half? It's like, oh yeah, they did. They did, they did, to the Jacksonville Jaguars. They really did that.

And I think the pressure on them, the pressure on the Steelers, the Ravens, the Jets, just because their markets, their brands, it's always going to feel a little stronger nationally. I'm probably someone that ends up talking about the Chargers more than most. It could be my West Coast ties.

just, I'm an NFC, AFC West guy. Like those are the divisions I just end up watching the most. And they're just, there's always been a little bit of an under the radar team, even when they're good. But you can't have a quarterback of that talent and risk having a head coach who's not good enough. And I think the pressure on them to, I think it really is to compete for the division. I'm not saying they have to be better than the chiefs. But when you just look talent for talent, it's not that far off.

Obviously, the big gap is the head coaches. And the gap between Andy Reed and Rand Staley is really wide. And then there's just all those, you know, kind of the curveball teams. The Browns, I mean, we're talking if they don't make the playoffs, you're going to pay a quarterback $130 million and keeps Stefansky around. He's got to be coached for his job. And how are the Browns going to make the playoffs? John Watson has to be infinitely better than he was last season.

Because the guy that we witnessed last year was a very poor player. He was. And even if you take out the money, you take out the trade, you take out, you just look at him in a vacuum as a quarterback. And it's hard because he hadn't played forever. It just looked. I mean, it was really bad. Remember, remember how bad Baker was the last season?

I mean, it was just, you watch it on TV. What the fuck is going on? And it really was that poor. So I'm fascinated with the AFC. It's just going to be, it's going to be awesome because of the stakes. And the amount of people that there are just only so many seats at the table. And it's just going to lead to a lot of people getting fired, A lot of teams blowing up.

You can't, listen, the history of sports, you don't fire players. You're not going to fire Justin Herbert. You're not going to fire Deshawn Watson $230 million. Pretty hard to, obviously, you're not going to fire Russell Wilson or Sean Payton. But it's going to be really, really, I can't wait. I really can't. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games.

Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way,

this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment,

and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show, isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. I saw Florio tweeting, and listen, Florio sometimes in the offseason.

he just starts tweeting madness. He was talking the other day about something like the fanatics party because they're in gambling. Like the NFL should crackdowns like nobody cares. There's a big difference between going to a fanatics party and having some vodka sodas with Michael Rubin and Robert Kraft. Then there is betting the over under on your own running back in a game. Like I'm sorry. I saw people you got to, it's all universal. It's all under one umbrella.

No, it's not. What Isaiah Rogers did might be the most dumb. like idiotic thing in the, like, seems like Pete Rose. Can't be betting on your own team. Even you're betting on him to win. It's just can't be doing that. He's, Andrew Luck is, and he was tweeted about Andrew Luck. He's Hall of Fame eligible.

Like it was a controversial statement to say he's not getting the Hall of Fame. Of course, he's not getting into the Hall of Fame. Andrew Luck is not a Hall of Famer. Now, there have been players with short-lived careers that have made it, right? Way before by time. I think Gail Sayers, right, right when I was coming into my own as a sports fan, Terrell Davis. Kurt Warner's career was a little longer, but he kind of had like a couple little peaks.

All those guys include championships. Terrell Davis, multiple championships. Kurt Warner championship. If Andrew Luck had won a Super Bowl, I would say it would be a conversation. But not only did he not win a Super Bowl, he never got to one. I think the crazy part about just the headline is he's Hall of Fame eligible is it really brings into play for how awesome it could have been, for how much fun. it should have been for how he was destined to be a Hall of Fame player.

If he didn't, I don't know, just retire out of nowhere. Now, he had been banged up. I was looking at his game logs by his third season in the NFL. And remember, he gets, it's a unique worst team in the NFL because they had had Peyton Manning and they had been awesome. And you had just removed Peyton Manning. I think, I might have said this on the podcast, but I read somewhere recently that Polian had this, no, it wasn't Polian.

And it was Tom Moore, the offensive coordinator. When John Gruden used to go to the practices when he was doing Monday night football, and he'd go to the practices and he'd see that the backup never got any reps at practice. And Gruden was like flummox. What are we doing here? And Tom Moore said, well, if Payton goes down, we're fucked. And we don't practice fucked. And clearly you remove Payton Manning from that equation.

They immediately had the number one overall pick. But when he got there, they didn't have Reggie Wayne. They had Frini. They had Robert Mathis. They had some good players. And they immediately drafted T.Y. Hilton. But Andrew Luck by his third season, through 40 touchdowns, 16 picks. And had them in the conference championship game.

Now, they got boat raced by the New England Patriots, but they were there. And then the injury started happening. He only played seven games in 15. By 16, he threw 31 touchdowns. And then he missed the entire year in 17. And then his last season in the NFL, 39. touchdowns and 15 picks. When he was healthy, full seasons, 11 wins, 11 wins, and then his final season, 10 wins. And that was with Chuck Pagano, who was a terrible head coach.

And Ryan Grickson, who is universally, who hates me for saying this, thinks I talk shit about him. He was a terrible GM. He just was. Like, you don't get credit for drafting Andrew Luck. But it really is sad because I think the cool part about sports is when you see a talent and then that guy lives up to the talent, right? We're going to talk about Victor Wembeen Yama. You see it's like, God, I've never seen anything quite like this. What's cool about like Trevor Lawrence? Like ultimately Justin Herbert's success or even Patrick Mahomes,

they didn't have nearly as much hype as the hype guys, right? Like a guy like, if Jalen Carter becomes a Hall of Fame player, it'll be like, God, everyone said he fell in the draft, but everyone knew he was the most talented guy in the draft. Right? Trevor Lawrence, they said this guy was the best prospect since whoever, Andrew Luckin, Nick Bosa was a can't miss player. And then they become Hall of Fame players. That's what cool about, to me about sports.

I love the Patrick Mahomes and Herberts, who aren't the highly talked about guy. But anytime you can have all the pressure in college, get drafted number one or number two, have all the pressure and then live up to it. Because you know what happens to most guys? There's Zach Wilson. They can't handle it. They just fail. Or hell, they're not even that bad.

They're like Sammy Watkins, who was drafted really high. and just never lives up to the hype. Andrew Locke immediately lived up to the hype and started winning playoff games and was throwing 35 to 40 touchdowns a year. And you can give me through a lot of picks, I don't give a shit, just watch him play. I know you can't now because it's been five years.

But back in the day, if you watched him and didn't think he was good, I don't know what to tell you. And it just ended and it ended way too fast. He's also what's cool about sports is you can't predict this stuff. who in a million years and be like, oh yeah, Andrew Luck, just 2018, he'll just retire. He'll never be seen again. No, he's not going to do like a fake retire.

He's not going to kind of tap out. He's going to just quit and just be gone. And he did. Like, I do respect it. I don't necessarily, I can't agree or not agree. It's not my life. If I was a Colts fan, I would have been really mad. I do respect.

Like, I don't really like the kind of half in, half out, right? Like what Aaron Rogers done for a couple years, what Brett Farve did forever. It's like, give me a break. You know, even LeBron, who starts threatening you're going to retire. Like, give me a break. Andrew Luck, never talked about retirement, just retires. It has never seen again. I respected for sticking by his guns.

It kind of hit me watching Victor Wembenyama on, it would have been Sunday night, and he scored a bunch of points. Never seen anything like him. He's like Kevin Durant mixed with Yao Ming size. It's just crazy. but the number one pick in the NBA draft and the number one pick in the NFL draft are almost two feet apart.

One guy's seven, six, and the other guy's barely five, ten. I don't really have a hot take on it, but it's just a crazy Bill Parcell's thing was you got to be careful drafting exceptions or outliers because eventually when you give into that, you have a team full of exceptions or outliers.

And I love Bryce Young. I thought the guy that we watched in college in the SEC was brilliant and dominant. But I do understand people saying that his size is a major concern, right? He's barely 510. I know he weighed in close to 200 pounds at the combine. Most people in the NFL believe that he was playing at like low mid-180s at most. And Victor Wembeeniyama, if you're taller, right, if Bryce Young was 6 foot 4, he would have been one of the elite prospects of the last 20 years.

But part of being an elite prospect isn't just accuracy, being able to read the field, right? Just having the arm strength. It's kind of body size. Look at the top players in the end of, did you watch the match with Mahomes, Kelsey, Clay, and Steph? Did you see Mahomes just standing next to Kelsey, a tight end, and Clay Thompson, who technically is a shooting guard,

small four, is kind of a hybrid player? Like, just physically, he looks just kind of just like him. Even Steph. People act like Steph small. Steph Curry's closer to 6-4 than he is 6-2. And he's put on a lot of muscle over the years. Patrick Holmes physically just, he doesn't quite look like Josh Allen or John Elway, but he ain't small. All the top quarterbacks are big. And it's very, we talked about it with Tuo. It's just hard when a guy like Aaron Donald or Nick Bosa or Miles Garrett or whoever, every team has these guys, gets their hands on you and slams you into the ground.

I'm not pivoting off Bryce Young. I think he's a really good player, but I do understand the concerns. No different. I don't claim to be Jerry West here, but it is hard to watch Victor Wenbinyama has all these skills. I think he's not going to get hurt. If you're just a 6'6 player and you fall into him, you're not falling into his stomach or his abs.

You're more likely like falling into his kneecap. He is enormous, never see anything like it. He looks like a guy who's just going to get hurt. I hope he doesn't. I'm rooting for. firm to stay healthy. But if he just has a 15 year career and the majority is health, I'd be a little stunned. Okay, let's dive into a little thing we like to call the Middlecough mailbag at John Middlecough is the Instagram. I guess it's also the threads,

fire into the Instagram DMs and get your question answered here on the show. Let's start with this. This is a pretty good one. Who plays more games this upcoming season. Odell Beckham, Jr. or Jimmy Garopplo? Tough question. From a betting perspective, would not bet a lot on either guy staying healthy. I'm going to base it strictly on in 2003, one guy is literally injured. Jimmy Garoppolo could not participate, needed another surgery before offseason activities. There was a video that went viral a couple weeks ago. My guy Keith Williams, who I worked with at Fresno State, wide receiver coach there, throwing balls to Odell Beckham. He caught it one-handed. Another wide receiver in the group said, why am I not allowed to do that?

He basically said because he's Hodo Beckham Jr. I'm going to go with Beckham. I don't feel great about this. I would not bet a lot of money on this, but Jimmy Garoppel is hurt. We will see. I mean, I think the number one question for Raiders training camp, can he participate when the veteran show up? Will he take snaps immediately? Because if he can't, what are we doing? I mean, the Raider season could be doomed before it even starts. I'd put Beckham around 12-ish games. I would not put Jimmy Garoppolo at half the season. As a Ravens fan is from Griffin. I know the feeling around the league is that Odell, another O'Dell question,

is dramatically overpaid, which I agree with. But why do you think the caliber of weapons Lamar now has is being overlooked in terms of us having a chance to compete in the AFC, win the North? Combine with the fact that we have a new coordinator who is looking to open up and diversify the offense. I just feel as though no one has given us a shot to be competitive to win the a FC.

Just would like to hear your general thoughts on us as a squad. Well, I talked about it earlier in the podcast. Anytime that you do a dramatic change when a guy is good at something, it's a major, major risk. And there's a difference between opening up the offense. If you watch the Ravens, when Lamar has been healthy on the good teams, when you guys won a bunch of games and won the division and made the playoffs. You guys had a potent passing attack.

Didn't the year he won the MVP, just doing this off the top of my head, 36, 37 touchdowns? So it's not like he won the MVP with 20 touchdowns. He threw a lot of touchdowns. Now, if I remember correctly, there might have been a game where he threw five, but regardless, Lamar has been a productive passer. Now, relative to his peers, Mahomes, Josh Allen, like he hasn't thrown it like that. But when I hear diversify the offense, like I don't want. want Steph Curry and Clay Thompson trying to dunk every time they get the ball in their hands.

They shoot threes. It's what they do. I understand their elements to injuries with running him in like the power college running attack that they've had. But that's his best skill. Now, they have to to sustain a long term and make this contract worth it. I understand that their mindset, but I do think it's a pretty big risk. Mark Andrews has been good with Lamar Jackson, right? Bateman, we'll see. I mean, he was a highly drafted guy. I know they were high on last year in training camp and stuff, it got injured. Beckham's a pretty big wild card.

Zay Flowers, to me is the type guy. I would call him kind of like the modern hybrid where you can get the ball behind the line of scrimmage. We've seen a lot of these guys, you know, recently in the Tyree kills. I mean, Tyra's a great wide receiver, but you can use them like Debo Samuel. I think that Zay Flowers,

the ability to kind of be pretty versatile. With a guy like Lamar keeping, being able to get the ball quickly, you know, around the line of scrimmage, just makes everything a little bit easier. But I don't like when people are so open about, oh, we're going to change the offense. Why?

I understand tweaking it and evolving. That's a natural progression of football, but completely changed the offense. I think that's pretty risky. Big fan of the pod. Keep up the good work. I'm a Giants fan and I'm proud of the progress, the team and Daniel Jones showed last season.

while understand it seems like he's getting paid a lot now, if you look into the contract, you will see the Giants have an out after the season. We had a contract guru here. Why is everyone acting like it's impossible for him to keep improving with better weapons and another year in the same system with good coaching? I think we take a step back record-wise because of the schedule.

But I think he may look better overall. What do you think? Well, here's the thing. If we use the comp of Alex Smith, who it took getting a competent coach in Jim Harbaugh to get his career on the right track. And then what happened? He just kept getting better. He got injured. So he got Wally Pip by Kaepernick.

But then he went to Andy and just kept improving. If that's his comp, yes, he should keep improving. Now, does he ever have the upside to be some star player? I think most people would push back against that. And I think it's fair. but can Daniel Jones be a top 13, 14 quarterback in the league for sure? Now, a lot of pressure on the weapons, right? That's going to be huge.

The Sequin as of recording this, that the, that situation, I don't know how it's ultimately going to play out, whether they give him an extension, whether he just plays on the tag, but you've got to be pretty locked in and there. Like, he's a big help. Their offensive line plays well. they're just this it's not like they're going to go from what they were last year on

offense to all of a sudden being the number one offense but can't it continue to improve I like when a coach and a quarterback and even the offensive coordinator Kafka's coming around as well though all this stuff going on Northwestern I saw some people say like he would be a guy listen I spent a little time around Kafka I know a lot of people that know them let's just say worst case scenario Pat Fitzgerald is fired for from Northwestern. I have a hard time seeing him leave the Giants and taking that job in the middle of all this. Just because he loves that guy, I have a hard time seeing that one.

So the cohesion of all those guys around is very, very big. So yeah, I would expect him to be better. Now, statistically by what measure? Would he throw 15 touchdowns last year? Do I expect a 30 touchdown season? Probably not. Is that how the Giants are going to play? Probably not.

But can he get to like 24 touchdowns? Like that, that would be a pretty dramatic. improvement, a nine touchdown edition. So yeah, I'm with you. I just think anytime in sports, you know, you go from people betting against you, not being that good, to all of a sudden you get paid, whether you're coming off a big season, whether you just get the train back on the tracks. Like, there's going to be some tangible pressure on Gino Smith. Okay, no one was expecting shit last year. Then all of a sudden you have a big year and now you're getting paid. How's it going? Aaron Judge's season was pretty cool last year. But you give a guy 350 million

million dollars like better rattle off some MVP's you know that's as part of the deal i saw the NBA giving a lot of 200 million dollar maxes okay you guys have had good careers time to become all NBA guys because that's what 40 50 million dollars a year the expectation is fair enough now some would argue money doesn't really change who you are as a player but it just kind of is what it is hey john love the platform the volume is given you to show off your expertise in football golf and other various topics. I like this guy. I recently graduated from college

and got a degree in sports management. My dream is to be able to work for a personnel department in the NFL. Is there anything I can do to stand out to pro teams? I say this over and over. You just got to work in football. And the easiest way to get to the NFL

is no different than a player. It's to get to college football. And the way to get to college football is you have a, you know, sometimes you've got to, volunteer. Now, I started volunteering when I was an undergraduate. And then from there, I got to Fresno State on staff as a graduate in the program. But that is the way I met NFL people. Because 99.9% of us, if we want to work in pro sports, we don't know people in pro sports.

We didn't play pro sports. Our parents aren't coaches. We don't know executives. You're not going to have any ins. So you just have your end is the ability to meet people. Well, the easiest way to meet people is to work in college sports because that's where the scouts come through in any sport. So I would recommend finding a way, volunteer. I don't know where you live, but wherever you live, if you can get with the college team, if you can ask to help in recruiting, that's always, now I'm biased. That was my path, but I do believe that's the easiest path. Because when I was an undergraduate and I just wrote teams blindly, the giants, the Packers,

the bearers or whatever. They all denied me. I still have the letters. They didn't know me from Adam. They don't need. What are you even asking? What are you going to do? It's very, very difficult.

The moment you start getting to know human beings, it's the assistant GM, that's the lead scout, they talk to the GM. They talk to the coach. And that's the easiest way to get connected. There's not a lot of you guys listening, have networking events in your industries. You know, the combine, I think used to be more accessible.

coaches and some jams don't even go now. So that's changed dramatically. I will always, I will pound the table on this. Find a way into college football. And luckily, college football is really expanding, right? They have personnel departments. Every team in the SEC has like a GM. When I worked in college football in 08, 09, and 10,

don't have a GM. Some people had like guys helping out with recruiting, but Sabin changed the game right around then. And everyone has followed suit. I mean, Ohio State is like a 15th. man personnel department. All these programs do. So one of buddies that I worked with at Fresno State is essentially the GM at Florida State. That position didn't exist five years ago.

Hey, John, good day from Australia. While you're enjoying the summer, I've been going through your early shows from 18. Easy to sit back. God, this guy's going in the vault. In hindsight, and laugh at the Rosen hype. And it was interesting that you weren't a fan of Josh Allen. Brutal. game being a scout.

Agreed. I remember going to the combine, and one of my good buddies, who's on the Chiefs, was like, bro, you're being too hard on Josh. This guy is going to be a player. And maybe it was their experience being around Mahomes. I don't know what it was. But he was, and I said, how many people agree with you in your personnel department? He's like, not many.

And this guy's going to end up being a GM. Then we'll have him on the show. But listen, I was high on Josh Rose. and low on Josh Allen. And one thing that being a quote unquote media scout or just talking about football that is different about being in the personal stuff, the character, the wiring, that type of information we talked about it earlier with Mahomes and Montana and Brady, you know, makes a break show.

So I underestimated that about Rosen, but he's a bad athlete. Clearly he's not that accurate. And then you can never underestimate a guy's ability to. proof when they're all in, all their chips are in the middle of the table. Now, just because you try hard at football and it means everything to you, a lot of high character guys, listen, I saw when I lived in the Bay Area back to back years, Cleland Farrell, Solomon Thomas, hard workers, none of the team captains. Their work ethic is not the reason they were quote unquote, bus would be strong.

I mean, they're still in the NFL, but never could live up to the pick. Just not good enough. It's not because they're not trying hard enough. They don't have the skills. And the one thing I think we all underestimate, I don't know why I'm going off on this tangent. You've still got more of a question is I didn't think the accuracy. Like, how do you ever improve the accuracy?

And he improved it really dramatically. Now, it still comes into play sometimes when you watch Josh play. Is it can be, you know, it can be a little hit or miss. But he's such a, he's such an explosive playmaker that he can overcome it. My question is whether there were any clues looking back. We basically just talked about it. Mean this with no disrespect.

Obviously, I remember Colin was really high on Darnold. I actually was watching some of the clip of Sam, the part of my take guys went to that tight-in university, and Sam was one of the quarterbacks there with Josh Allen throwing. And you listen to Sam talk, you go, like his best friends in the league is Josh Allen. He is super, super dialed as a guy. Everyone likes him. He was talking about him and George Kittle, like in him already like BFFs.

McCaffrey loves him. sometimes in football, your circumstance really, really matters. Now, I don't think Josh Allen, excuse me, Josh Rosen's circumstance who drafted him would have mattered, right? But not every guy is Peyton Manning and can overcome. Peyton Manning could have played for any franchise at any moment for any coach and he would have become a great player. I would bet my life on that.

I don't know if that's every guy. I think Patrick Mahomes could have been a really good player in most places. he's going to go down as probably one of the best players in the history of the league because of the situation he fell into. Right? That's even Josh Allen. There weren't expectations. Buffalo had been really bad.

He got to just kind of figure it out on the fly. He got to suck immediately. Some guy's situation, Sam Darnold went to Adam Gase. And then he went to Matt Rule. So I think the situation, and most of these guys, like the good thing about all these quarterbacks, the overwhelming majority of young guys, we talk about super high character, super hardworking, super like great teammates. Lamar, Herbert, Josh, Mahomes, Trevor Lawrence.

I mean, these guys are very, very well liked. Where you go matters, like really, really matters. Does Lamar become a league MVP if the team doesn't just morph an offense to him? Maybe. Maybe not. That's why he's such a polarizing guy. He's going to be one of the most fascinating players to watch this year, kind of how it goes. Cotton quarterbacks is just fascinating

because so much is out of your control right. Most of our lives you don't have to work where you work. You can quit tomorrow. You'd be like, well, I got bills to pay. Well, that's your choice. I mean, you can find another way, find another job. You know, you don't like your wife. You got a divorce. But you control a lot of the variables

in your life. Like once you have a kid, there are things that are out of your control. I had a buddy come visit me. He's like, you know, the crazy part about being a parent is, I think I'm doing a good job, but who knows? Just keep my fingers crossed. I'm like, yeah, my dad used to always tell me that there's so much like you don't control who their friends are going to be, like who they're going to meet at school over the years, what their interests are going to be.

At quarterback, like, you do not control who drafts you. You do not control who your offensive coordinator is. You don't control who your skill guys are, what the vibe of your franchise is. Patrick Mahomes went to the chiefs who had been winning with an incumbent quarterback who was just a stud human and a really good player and got to kind of ease in. some guys, you know, go to just a house that's on fire, essentially. It's like, good luck, buddy. Have fun. What a rip.

Trevor Lawrence got Urban Meyer. Think about that. Trevor Lawrence, draft the number one. Who's your coach? Urban Meyer. How long did he last? Not even a season. Hey, John, big fan.

What are your thoughts about Purdy and where you think he'd rank among quarterbacks if he plays this whole season? I have his ceiling is above that. Listen, Dak, I mean, it's proven year in, year out that you can win 12 games for them. I like Brock and it was very impressive what he did. What he did in that stretch was more impressive as a player in a vacuum, not like the team success, but in a vacuum, he was better. The 49ers have had a lot of success previous years with Jimmy Garabla.

He was much better. They were a much more explosive offense. He was much better distributor the ball down the field. but one thing I'm always hesitant to do, especially with a non-super heralded guy, like he kind of got to prove it. It's, you could have a moment.

So to me to rank him, I think if he's healthy, he could be a really good player. But if you told me, hey, is there a chance that he comes back to Earth or some of his limitations show up? 100%.

Because one of his strong attributes last year is he was a really good playmaker. Like when shit broke down, he could kind of scramble. He even did some things like doing 360s, avoiding some defensive linemen scrambling back, throw some balls across his body. They're like,

ah, kind of could have been picked. It wasn't picked. Does that stuff even out over time? I know Kyle is really, really high on him. They love the guy. And this is another thing, the guy, very impressive. People really like him.

The defensive guys love him. But there is definitely pressure on him from a playing standpoint of just the expectations for the Niners are really, really high. And he got in a weird spot of like nothing to lose. They'd already lost multiple quarterbacks. And he was awesome. But now he's coming off a major injury where, you know, who knows come like August 1st is he able to throw.

They're going to be a Super Bowl favorite and how it goes. So yeah, I think his ceiling, he could be definitely like a more athletic cousin's type because he's a much more athletic cousin. But one of the knocks on him in college, he threw a lot of picks. Because he, you know, he's got a little farvy and like thinks he's really good,

which is cool. Like, I like that quality in a quarterback. I need my guy to have some, some inner belief that I'm going to make anything happen in any moment. But in the NFL, you kind of got to be careful. Just letting that thing rip in a position where the guy might not be open,

that thing leads to a pick. And in a tight game, and the second half against the Eagles, the Cowboys, that's the difference of winning or losing. And his arm is not Alan Mahomes or Herbert so it can get you in a little trouble. But best case, it's hard for me to say he's just a better player than Dak. I mean, Dak's been doing it for a while. And I'm not even a big guy. But I got to see a little more. Let's just, let's just see. Mr. Irrelevant is just going to be some 10 year starter? Because if he just becomes the Niners long term starter, it's like one of

the great draft picks of all time. Like, who's your starting quarterback? Oh, he's just last pick in the draft. The NBA draft? In the second round? No, the NFL draft. Seven rounds. Pick two, 68.

Goes to Catalina Island for Mr. Relevant. That'd be pretty nuts, if that's ultimately the way it plays out. Not saying it won't, but that's a little Tom Brady-ish. Not saying he's going to win Super Bowls or whatever, but he's just going to go to the playoffs all the time.

It's a seventh round pick. It's one thing. You know, Dax's a fourth rounder. Russell's a third rounder. Cousins was a fourth rounder. Like, it happens, mid-rounders. Seventh-round picks? How many seventh-round picks are really good quarterbacks?

Love the pod. When you and Colin collab, you guys should do more episodes together. I think that's the game plan this fall. Wanted to ask what your expectations are for fields and the Chicago Bears. I'm 25 years old and have been a Bears fan my entire life. And this is the most excited I've been about the Bears since Cutler. in Brandon Marshall, but I know I need to proceed with caution. You can always tell a sports fan who have seen not great days.

They're always hesitant. It's like this feels a little too good to be true on the opposite. When your team's always good like chiefs or the warriors or whoever, you're just kind of arrogant and cocky, is a playoff appearance a must for fields this year? If the bear fall, a game, or even a shy of the playoffs, is it considered a, failure, whereas this season solely dependent on how much fields improves and levels up his game. There's definitely some urgency just in the fact that he's going into his third year. And the most valuable thing you have when you're drafted high, and he was what, the 11th pick

in the draft, 10th pick in the draft, is your contract, right? So if you just, let's say he shows some improvements, but you go like 7 and 10. Well, you wouldn't give them a contract extension, but you really only have one more year of like, are we going to keep doing this? It's pretty rare than a Daniel Jones situation plays out. It's kind of up and down, up and down. You're missing the playoffs.

You're missing the playoffs. And it just plays out through your fifth round, fifth year. And then you inevitably get a big contract. I would say that's an outlier situation. I don't think it's playoffs or bust because you guys just had the worst record in the league. You had the worst record in the league. So to go from the worst record in the league to the playoffs would be an insane jump. Even your division's wide open, unless like 7 and 10 won your division,

which I have a hard time seeing. I could one of the teams in the NFC North is going to win, I would say, nine games. I think it's reasonable to think like if Minnesota comes back to Earth, depending on how Jordan Love is, the Lions, I think nine and eight is definitely in play for one of these teams. I do think the lions are dramatically more talented than you and they have a quarterback that they know they can function with. The Packers, I mean, who knows?

No one has any clue. I know Coward's big thing is, and it's hard to disagree with them. Why has no one been kind of like anointing this guy or blowing them in practice? It's a little weird. He's been there three years, not a year. There's going to be tangible pressure on Justin Fields, though,

week in, week out. I think it's less about the win loss, but I think it would be hard for you guys to go six wins on the season and be like, ah, I feel pretty good about it. But I do think there is a scenario where you can miss the playoffs and feel good about the guy. You win seven, eight games, maybe your defense isn't as good. The offensive line is still shitty. And you go, this is worth giving it another year. He becomes a little bit more balanced as a player because this was my thing when the 49ers was draft number three.

Take fields. I want that athlete figure it out. Because there's no guarantee any of these guys can throw the ball. I've seen this guy throw the ball in a final four game against Clemson, where he's throwing bombs. I know he's got a big arm. I know he's got an athlete. See if you can mold him.

Turns out, Trey Lance, not even a great athlete. Doesn't have the strongest arm in the world. Right? I think his arm's a little overhyped. Fields. Now, is he an accurate quarterback? Can he read defenses? Still yet to be determined.

He's definitely had a pretty chaotic, just coaching talent around him experience. What are we just talking about? who drafts you, who your coach is, who your play caller is, who the talent around you is, matters. I would say that it is not playoffs or bust, but winning seven, eight games with him, like throwing 300-yard games. You can't just, oh, he's running around again. Like, that's not going to get it done.

They will kind of, I would imagine, move off of them if that's the case. But if he's rattling off some 300-yard games and you're losing because maybe your defense isn't good enough, or you losing shootouts or whatever the scenario is. I think that that is a possibility of him survival. Okay, last one. Hey man, big fan. I'm as big of a Lions fan as you'll find. They're terrible.

I was caught off guard like probably 95% of the NFL fans when Detroit drafted Jamir Gibbs. He's a running back in the first round. It took me about one day to buckle up and say, F it. If he can play, he can play regardless of quote unquote positional value. Then Detroit trades Swift and you'd have thought Detroit traded prime Barry Sanders the way people were reacting. It's clear Detroit views Gibbs more than just a running back in their system. What are your expectations year one and beyond with Jemir in Detroit? I texted a couple buddies immediately to do

the SEC. I say, give me the intel on this guy. And both of them were like, love them. One of my favorite players in the draft. But I'm not into drafting running backs in the first round. And I get it. And that is a way of thinking that I tend to lean with too. I do think there are unique players, though. Like ultimately Christian McCaffrey, when he's healthy,

is every bit the version of a first round pick. Right? You take that guy who can catch you 70, 80 balls, who can run for 1,200 balls or yards. Right? You take a guy who can do both. If you're just a running back only, you better be freaking Adrian Peterson.

Because if you're not a lock hall of famer, if you're not a great pass catcher, I cannot draft you. And listening to those guys talk about them, listening to my people to do the SEC, they're like, this guy's got a little Kamara in the sense of like he can really catch the ball out of the backfield.

When did Jared Goff have a ton of success when he had Todd Gurley, a very versatile chess piece? Now, it's a pretty big blow to them that the dude from Alabama, Jameson Williams, then he gets suspended for gambling? So if he was healthy with St. Brown and this kid and their offensive line,

I'd go, God, their offense is going to dominate immediately. But Jameson Williams, who showed a lot of signs of life last year coming off the ACL to go with this guy. Bamar running backs lately have had a lot of success. Like, I mean, you watch them play. You're like, this guy can play. When Trent Richardson happened, it kind of skewed everything. Since then, like a lot of those guys have become very, very productive players. And to me, and it's like with McCaffrey,

like with, you know, Kamara when he's on the field. And Kamara is probably more of a true closer to a wide receiver than he is some true running back. Because his running game is really more predicated on like outside runs, sweeps. I don't know if you're going to pound them between the tackles nonstop. But part of the reason they took Najee Harris really high. Why? Because he could do both. It's one of the knocks on ETN.

Like ETN might just be more of a wide receiver than he is a running back. Right? Because he's just an outside runner only, good wide receiver. and he's not quite Kamara. Well, if this guy can run between the tackles, which I broke it down on YouTube,

and I've watched a lot of Alabama football. He can. He's a physical runner, but if he can catch, I do think there's a lot of value. And the other thing is, I'm against doing it on seasons, like if it's a really good draft,

it's like, just take a pass rusher, just take, you know, the sweet corner to take a position that is more valuable. This draft was so shitty. And what do they go?

Then they trade, six to 12 because they obviously have the Rams pick. You know, a lot of teams thought they were 10 to 14 first round picks in this draft. And he clearly was a top 10 player on their board. And part of doing that enabled them to get an extra second round pick to get a, didn't they take a second round tight end? I don't hate it at all. I don't. Now, if this guy just brick hands and can't catch a ball, then it'd be a problem.

But if this guy is productive between the tackles, outside the tackles, and in the passing game, a three-down player. Christian McCaffrey does not have to come off the field. Kamara, in this heyday with Peyton, does not have to come out of the field. Where was Dan Campbell? Dan Campbell was the assistant head coach for the Saints when he got hired. He was Sean Payton's right-hand guy, and he saw it.

And one of the other things I'll give Dan Campbell a lot of respect. He said, the thing I learned from Sean Payton was, I came from Bill Parcell's little old school, conservative, just mindset on players, on coaching, on going for it. And being around Peyton, I saw, you got to have some cahonas sometimes. You got to take some swing for the fences, whether that's an onside kick, whether that's going forward on fourth down, whether that's a big trade, whether that's a move in the draft, not everyone's going to agree with.

You can't just always go with the flow when your gut tells you to do something. Part of the reason you are hired in the NFL as a coach or as a GM is to kind of like a player, have some instincts. and if their instincts told them that they love this guy and we all saw, and I know you did, but I bet a lot of people did on social media. When they drafted them and everyone was talking shit on Twitter or whatever, just like they'll probably do on threads this year,

they immediately put out that viral video, which they do every year of Dan and his GM, just going nuts. So the conviction in that room, we're going to find out if it's right or wrong, but they believe in it. Isn't that the reason you hire those guys? So I'm definitely not.

not against it. We will have a podcast again later this week. Adios, Godspeed. Let's keep rocking and rolling. The volume. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media.

Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfilts, unfilts. conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok's podcast network on TikTok. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.