The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 3 and Out - Kelce G.O.A.T’d, Wasting Herbert, Zach Wilson Stinks, Giants Crash

Episode Date: November 21, 2022

John reacts to Patrick Mahomes flexing his clutch gene with a game winning drive to beat the Chargers on SNF, why he’s convinced Travis Kelce is the best TE ever, why the Chargers are wasting Justin Herbert by being cheap, why the Jets can’t win with Zach Wilson, and why he was so impressed with Jalen Hurts’ in an ugly win over the Colts, and why the Giants are heading toward a second half crash. Subscribe NOW and follow Middlekauff and The Volume on Twitter, Instagram and YouTube for the latest content. It's always FanDuel for the best wagering action! #volume #herdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Now sign up with promo code Colin so they know we sent you. What is going on, everybody? John Middilcock, three and out podcast. How are we doing? Just finished watching a little Sunday night football. Mahomes, Kelsey, they do it again. The Chargers blow it.

But nothing new. If you've been watching Charger football, I don't know for decades. Some thoughts on the Eagles, some thoughts on Zach Wilson, some thoughts on the NFC East. How about them cowboys? Middlecoff mailbag.

I'm going to need some of you guys in the mailbag. At John Middlekoff, fire in those DMs. Thanksgiving schedule will be podcast today, podcast Tuesday, and then probably just a little gambling thing for Wednesday morning. And then be back again, you know, starting next Sunday for some podcasts. But obviously holiday weekend, enjoy Thanksgiving. You listen on Collins feed. Make sure you subscribe to the three and out podcast.

Tell your friends. Share the podcast. Appreciate everybody. Okay, you know, you go into that final drive after the Chargers take the lead. Under two minutes ago, was there any doubt in anyone's mind that the Chiefs weren't going to win that game? Did it cross anyone's mind that Patrick Mahomes and because it's the Chargers, Travis Kelsey, were going to make play after play after play and score a touchdown in a back-breaking fashion to one of the great underachieving franchises

in the history of American sports. And we'll dive into the Chargers here in a second. But we talked about it a couple weeks ago when Mahomes pulled that drive basically with his legs out of the crevices of you know where to beat the Titans a couple weeks back. And then the night, like, listen, I try not to be prisoner of the moment.

Though, you know, I'm a football fan at heart and I'm an emotional guy. So I probably say some things sometimes in the instant reaction that sometimes the longer it kind of marinerates, you know, maybe it's a little over the top. But I truly believe this. And listen, I grew up going to Memorial Stadium back when the school actually cared about sports.

And I watched Tony Gonzalez in college. And I followed his career very, very closely. Shannon Sharp, I love Shannon Sharp as a player. Those two were the best two receiving tight ends. I didn't see Bravaro. not counting. I'm talking modern day post internet, even though Shannon Sharp, the majority of his career was in the 90s, but I feel

like I watched a lot of them. And then obviously Grunk, who was a spectacular all into himself, right? We've never quite seen anything quite like that, the total package. Because Tony Gonzalez was just not a blocking tight end. And I mean, the Chiefs had another guy,

last name Dunn. Remember the big guy, I think 87, who was basically like another offensive tackle. And Shannon Sharp was just an all-time great receiver. Now, he played tied-in, but I mean, the receiving genetics. And then Gronk, the only problem for Gronk is he couldn't stay healthy. And by the end of, by the middle of his career, he looked like Barry Bonds, right? He had the arm, he had the arm brace, the knee brace. But when he was on, Gronk's a freak of all-time freaks. What Travis Kelsey is putting on right now for about seven straight years is just incredible to watch.

mean, one, he's got to be one of the most durable players in the league. He does not miss games. And from a wide receiving standpoint, like, nobody can cover him. And this year, if you wanted to say in years past, and I've said it before, they were the great trio of my lifetime, and I do think they were going to go down as the best trio of all time, they chose to trade Tyree Kill. So you could, if you wanted to push back, you'd be like, he played with the greatest speed-wide receiver, not named Randy Moss ever.

and Tyree Kill. So it opened up the middle of the field. Well, this year, he's playing with Juju. They trade for Cadarius Tony. They got this Pacheco seventh round running back hybrid guy. Like, everyone knows that the ball is going to 87, especially the Chargers. Because the guy has been scoring, I swear to God, in the last five years watching him play the Chargers, he has 70 touchdowns.

Like, he is a touchdown machine against these guys. So no franchise and no defensive coordinator and no. No team should put the red dot, go, we need to slow down this guy, and they can't do it. They absolutely have no shot to stop 87. They just cannot slow him down. I believe he's the greatest tight end that I've ever seen. And I'm trying not to be over the top. I would have put him, hell, before coming into this season, he would have been in the mix anyway.

But what this guy's building on, and it's pretty clear. To me, the chiefs, and I understand they lost the bills at home, it was a tough loss. To me, they're the best team in the league. I would have the most faith and they'll probably play the bills again and I'm going to pick the Chiefs. That doesn't mean the bills can't win. I have a lot of respect for the bills.

But as we've seen, when they get in some of these tight games and they're losing or it gets tight in the fourth quarter, they blow it. I don't count today. The final score is a lot close or a lot. The final score is not representative

of the game that they played against the Browns. But to me, if I had to pick right now and I was a betting man, I would bet on the Chiefs to win it all. they are much more complete this season and I mean they got the best died end ever who's still in the peak of his powers and they got the best quarterback in the league

I mean he's going to win the MVP obviously Rogers isn't going to win it this year it's going back to Patrick and him and Andy are just in the zone and there was never a doubt in my mind that they weren't going to drive you know I don't know what number could have been on the clock that I would have been nervous

maybe 30 seconds but anything over a minute like they're figuring this out and they did it with ease I mean, they did it with what? 28 seconds remaining on the clock. At one point in time on that drive, I'm like, are they going to score too quick? And it's crazy because we care about the Chargers

probably more on the West Coast than most people throughout the country, most football fans. Because why would you care? It's weird, right? They're relevant, but they're also kind of not. They're mainly relevant because they've now had two decades of Drew Buries to Philip Rivers to Justin Herbert. If you're listening to this in your Colts fan,

you've had five straight years with five fucking different quarterbacks. They've gone from Drew Brees who's the first ballot Hall of Famer who they got in the second round to Philip Rivers because Eli Banding didn't want to go there. And now Justin Herbert,

who's easily of those three the most physically gifted. And listen, we can nitpick all we want. His win-loss record obviously isn't as good as his talent. You can't watch the Chargers and think it's Justin Herbert's fault. His coach has no fucking clue what to do.

their defense never gets a stop when it matters. I like Austin Echler, but, I mean, can you get him another running back? And Keenan Allen, a huge fan. When they ran the go route to Keenan Allen, how fast was he going? I know he's got a bum hamstring, but he's not the most fast. He struggled to run a 4-7 when he was coming out of Cal. What was he going, like 5'3? You know, Mike Williams' ankle, I don't blame him.

He goes up, he makes that catch early in the game, falls on that ankle, and it's hard. And Justin Herbert is just a shine. beam of positivity coming out of there. But for whatever reason, this franchise, and I truly believe it starts with the owner, who is just fundamentally cheap to his core. I mean, you have all these great quarterbacks. And beside Marty Schadenheimer, which ultimately he chose his general manager over, he just goes after cheap coach, after cheap coach after cheap coach.

Now you have this generational talent. Like that's what this guy physically brings the table. How many people listening to this right now, if your quarterback is not like, obviously, Mahomes, maybe a borough, I mean, it's a short list. You wouldn't want that guy on your team. Because I know this. Every 49er fan I know would give anything to have Justin Herbert be the quarterback

of their team. Seattle, Arizona, we can go around the league. Yet they're going to suck again. And we're going to look up and they're going to be 9 and 8 or 8 and 9. And when I say suck, suck for having generational quarterback. and miss the playoffs. How is that possible? The Chargers can take all this talent every single year and screw it up.

Unlike any franchise, like the Lions always suck. Well, historically, the Lions, beside like three players, have never had that much talent. The Jags are always a joke, right? The Chargers, we all pick them every single year. Like, this is the year, they're going to win 11, 12 games. This is the year, they're going to win the division. This is the year, they're going to be a Super Bowl contender. And what happens?

We've even added a team to the playoffs. It is now not quite half the league, but seven teams in each conference make the playoffs. And let's face it, they're going to miss. They're going to miss with Justin Herbert again playing well. And I've criticized Brandon Staley enough. It is what it is. Like eventually it's on the franchise. Like you hired this guy.

Of course he's not that good. The Chargers are that guy who looks incredible on paper. Got multiple degrees from good schools. You see him. He's tall. He's good looking. Then he's 45. He's unemployed and he's a miserable SOB.

And he has nothing to show for his intellectual and physical prowess. You know, it's just an underachieving franchise. Year changes. Their outcomes never change, though. Same shit every single year. Of course the chiefs beat him. I was going to go some Eagles. Colts, but I do think we need to start with what just happened in New England.

And obviously, the Patriots get an incredible win, walk off punt return. My first year with Philly was the game when Matt Dodge punted it to Deshawn Jackson, and we won the division because of that game. And Tom Coughlin almost, I mean, he should have assaulted him coming up the field. And I think a lot of casual fans outkick the coverage, we all know what that. means, right? You kick it too far. But when you outkick on a punt, you only have two guys. Like on a kickoff return, every guy is running at the same pace, right? So all 10 guys beside the kicker are all coming down in a wave and they all have a lane. When it comes to punt, you really

have the two gunners on the outside who are usually being guarded by two guys. So when you heavily outkick those guys with a low liner, it's why hang time with a punt really matters. just because you kick it far, if it only hangs in the air for three and a half seconds, you would much rather have it go less far and hang in the air for 4.8 seconds. And we're only talking obviously like one second difference, maybe one second, like 1.2 seconds, but that makes an enormous deal when you allow a guy to get a running start before the two gunners get there and then kind of set himself up on the angles and let his blockers put him in position to make some moves. And that's what happened.

And then you saw after the game, Zach Wilson, who the Jets have a problem, right? They've hit on all these draft picks. They have a really talented team. I think even if you're a Patriot fan, you could, you know, even if you're a dired Patriot fan,

you could agree they probably got more talent than you on their team. But their quarterback stinks. He's not any good. Like, he's a horrendous football player right now. Now, I'm not going to go as far as calling him a bust. it's only in his second year. To me, you can't be a bust for several years down the line.

And here's the thing was Zach Wilson. Like, I have a hard time calling certain players buss that never should have been drafted that high. Like, ultimately, Mack Jones, to me, is pretty average? But is he a bust? Like, he's a third round pick in the history of the league. But because the quarterback inflation, he goes really high. In years past, guys like Solomon Thomas and Cleland Farrell

were drafted by the Raiders and the top five. Like to me, are those guys busts or were they just some of the most overdrafted players in the history of the league? Now, when guys have a lot of talent and then they suck, like that to me is what you call a bust. That's why Jamarcus Russell, Ryan Leif, those guys, physically they had all the attributes to be a really talented player. Like, you watch Zach Wilson. He's a good athlete. He's got a live arm. Like, it's not because some guys bust it quarterback because their arm sucks or they're physically overwhelmed.

that's not the case with Zach Wilson. But when you watch him play, especially against the hoodie, who just completely owns the guy, which of course he does. Because any quarterback who physically and mentally don't have it all together and aren't in sync with each other are going to be in major trouble against Bill Belichick. And Zach Wilson is currently his mark.

And here's the thing with Zach Wilson. After the game when he's asked, his defense was awesome. They had them in a position. to go to overtime against a team that they have not beat in seven years. They cannot beat this team. And the defense and the entire team's mindset put themselves in a position to win this game. Yet their quarterback, they managed 22 yards, or excuse me, two yards of offense in the second half.

He threw for 77 yards on the game. 77. Mack Jones, who, to me, I still think is pretty average, threw for 245 yards. They are not, they couldn't get past midfif. field, they couldn't get first downs. And he's asked after the game if he felt like he let the defense down. And without hesitation, he says, no. And listen, I'm not a huge believer in, like, you got to fake it to the media.

Like, ultimately it matters what your team thinks, what your coaches think. Then, like, playing to the media, which obviously then the fans see. But then there are reports after the game that inside the locker room, they think he's walking around like, it ain't his problem. Now, I don't know who in his situation, in his mind, in his head, whose problem he can think it is. Like, it ain't the D-Lines fault. It ain't the cornerbacks fault. And I saw that the wide receivers, and Garrett Wilson after the game, the star wide receiver from Ohio State, the 10th pick in the draft, was pissed.

I watched his, he was calm when he said it, but he was basically saying, we're an embarrassment. We are way too good for this. This shit is unacceptable. And you watch Zach Wilson, who just refuses to take any responsibility, and part of being the quarterback, why it's so hard and why I think we're critical on guys like Kyler Murray and why we give guys like Lamar Jackson so much credit, you don't get credit. Like, you don't get drafted just to handle the good times. Any human can handle the good times.

You can handle the good times. I can handle the good times. My neighbor can handle the good times. Any human being alive can handle when things are going well. How do you handle when shit hits the fan? and that's where especially a quarterback, mentally tough guys, rise above, guys that are wired for it. It's why this position eats so many guys up. The not talented enough guys, and then the majority of the talented guys enough can't handle it.

Because they start going through a rough patch on the sea and they sink. Only so many guys can keep the boat afloat. And right now it feels like, I don't want to say he's pointing fingers because there's no one for him to point a finger at. but he sure as hell is not going like, I need to step it up. And that's not just on the comment that he had after the game. That's the reports coming out of the locker room that the team is like, what the hell is this guy's deal? If you and I on the couch can see this guy sucks,

what do you think those guys think? Elijah Moore, who I was critical of when he asked for a trade earlier in the season. It's like, you know, I saw him make a couple plays a day, and Garrett Wilson can play on my team any day of the week. And those guys are like, what is going on? The Jets have a serious problem because they have... Robert Sol is a solid coach. He's really kind of coming on.

Their roster, pretty damn good. And they're missing some star players. But what are they going to do a quarterback? Like, they drafted this guy. This wasn't five years ago. This was last... This is a second year in the league. He was the number two overall pick.

Listen, we can nitpick Justin Fields all we want. Right, guys like me talk about his talent, his physical attributes and how good he can be. and his team keeps losing. Here's what I know about Justin Fields. He's playing with fucking Dante Pedison to kill Harry and the worst offensive line in the league. If you don't think that if they could redo that,

they would take Justin Fields over Zach Wilson, you need to put down the drugs. Because that's one of the all-time, I even said it at the time. Like part of Zach Wilson, remember his breakout year in 2020, like their rival, for example, BYU's rival is Utah.

Well, that year, because the PAC 12 almost canceled the season, because of the vid and BYU's this independent, the Pact 12 did not play any non-conference games. So they didn't play Utah. And if you go back and you look at BYU's schedule, who typically plays the Notre Dame's, Utah's, I mean, they play real teams.

They didn't play anyone that year. And the one good team they played, Coastal Carolina, he lost. Now, I've never disputed his physical attributes, but I've always read flagged one-year wonder at a school that is a legitimate school, but that year because of it was 2020, They didn't play anybody.

And now it's kind of unraveling, and it all reflects on him. And this honestly, it reflects on Joe Douglas because he pulled the trigger to draft this guy, and it's a major problem. And how are you going to beat the Patriots? Like, the Patriots ain't going anywhere. It's not like they are some powerhouse roster. They just got the hoodie. They got solid players.

They take special teams seriously. They take defense seriously. And as long as they take defense seriously, how are you going to beat him? Because he is never going to function against them. And he clearly can't because every time he plays them, he looks like shit. Football season is underway. So now is the perfect time to download Fandul, America's number one sportsbook. Because right now, new customers get a no-sweat first bet up to $1,000.

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Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators,

and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Speaking of a guy who honestly didn't look that great most of the game. And we said this on the Monday night game, like one of the things with Jalen Hurts, I'm a big fan. I watched him just the guy, knowing people in the organization. If you watch that Kelsey interview, he is an impressive individual. But, like, separate the impressive human being and how good he, like, handles himself and separate some of his stats to what's he going to look like in a tight game when he's losing?

And in fairness to him this year, they haven't really been in any of those games. And the one game he was in on Monday night, they ended up losing. We got put in the situation again. Short week on the road against a team that Jeff Saturday is looking. like Vince Lombardi. They're up 13 to 3 in the fourth quarter and you're going, honestly, I had a couple of memes ready on my phone. I was like, Jeff Saturday, man, 2 and 0.

And what happened? Guy refused to let him loose. Guy refused to let him lose. He is such a fantastic. One, he threw a touchdown, I think with like 12, 13 minutes left in the game. And that got him back in the game. But then in a must have drive, drove him right down the field and won the game with his legs. And he is just so calm under pressure. And when you look at him and I talk about being high and

being too low, like ultimately what you want in quarterbacks, you want them to be excited, obviously, but you never want them to get too low. Right. And that's when things are going bad. Right. When things are going bad, you actually, if you stay even keel, it's why most good coaches, like watch Andy Reid and Bill Belichick on the sideline. They're not some crazy roller coaster, right? They're not like 2021 stock market. Then the 2002 stock market up and down. No, they're pretty even keel. I would say Bill's the best at it. And you watch Jalen Hertz, he's never too high and he's never too low.

But today I thought on the road against a good defense who'd been kicking their ass, weird things were happening, some fumbles, some turnovers. He just made plays when plays had to be made. And Siriani was just going bananas after the game. Even I thought, like, Nick, you just beat the Colts. But then watching some of his comments, Frank Reich is his mentor. So listen, like, I saw, a lot of people on social media talking shit

about Siriani that he shouldn't be like that pumping his chest and cocky. If someone's your guy and when you have someone in your life who changes your life like ultimately without Frank who he followed from San Diego where he coached with him with the Chargers to the Colts

and then he became the head coach of the Eagles. So without that man Nick Siriani in his mind is going there is no chance on God's green earth. I'm an NFL head coach right now. Zero. Who knows maybe I'd be a wide receiver coach and some crappy team, but because of Frank. And I think he even said in his post game press conference, like his dad and his high school

coach. But his NFL mentor is Frank Reich. And they fired him, even though I've said over and over, it was a justified firing. You know, I think Frank had to go. But I do get from Nick's perspective, like, fuck you guys. Jeff Saturday, and you're going to act like you're going to beat us and then you are beating us. And then when I do beat you, I'm going to basically do a lap around your, your stadium and high five and jump and point at Eagles fans because I did think at the time it was a little over the top but then hearing it like I think we're all human beings and you know loyalty to people that really change your life is important you know because ultimately for the most of us and I would say for the most part the majority of human beings are going to have a small

number of people who truly like take you to a new place right professionally or personally and clearly Frank meant a lot to Nick and that win was big for the Eagles because all of a sudden when I'm thinking they're they're going to lose that game the Cowboys beat the living piss out of the Vikings.

The commanders sneaky, hottest team in the league they're six and five now. The Giants who I've been saying no matter, they could lose every game from here on out, hat tip to Brian Dayball. He is clearly a real NFL coach. The Giants should be very proud and very excited.

I'm sorry, Giants fans, you're not going to make the playoffs. And there's nothing wrong with that. You should not make the playoffs. You're going to lose a lot of games. As you saw today, you know why the Lions were a bad matchup for you? Because they can score. Just because they can score points. Once you get above 20 against the Giants, the Giants are in trouble.

That is no indictment of Brian Dayball. If I'm a Giants fan, you got a bunch of picks. You're going to have some money. The future is bright. But you're going to come back to Earth. I actually think the Giants or the commanders might pass. you. But the Cowboys, their high end is high. Their high end is really high, right? And partly because Tony Pollard is a stud. C.D. Lambs coming on and that defensive front can pass rush on anybody.

So the Eagles, when I was like, they're going to lose this game. All of a sudden, the Cowboys are going to be right there. They still play the Cowboys again. That was a big win. That was a very, very big win. Also, it kind of separates the Vikings, gives them a little bit of breathing room. And now think about this week. The Vikings have a big, game against the Patriots. The Giants play the Cowboys. Like all of a sudden the Cowboys can kind of, I don't want to say, KO the Giants, but really put the Giants back to Earth. I mean, the Giants might lose two games in four days. The Vikings better be careful to not fall under that as well. And other than that, we'll talk a lot more football coming up on Tuesday show. Some thoughts on

Russell Wilson. Who knows? Maybe by the time you listen to this, Nathaniel Hackett has lost his job. It's pretty crazy that Devante Adams is having, I mean, it might go down as his best statistical season. this year of his career and he's going to play on like a five-win team but pretty cool for him and Derek to have a walk-off touchdown. I saw a car said after the game. We've been dreaming about that since college.

So fun day of NFL games. I thoroughly enjoyed it. The volume. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman

helped make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends

on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast is. Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes

for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an I-Hart podcast. Guaranteed Human.