The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 3 and Out - Lance = Bust, Russ Decline Signs, Jordan Love Optimism, Mailbag and Out

Episode Date: August 15, 2023

John explains why he’s ready to unequivocally call Trey Lance a bust, what he and Zach Wilson have in common, why he thinks Russell Wilson will continue to decline despite Sean Payton’s coaching, why he’s more optimistic than most about Jordan Love’s chance to succeed with the Packers, and why NFL front offices are combing through film of every meaningless preseason snap. He also answers listener questions in the Middlekauff Mailbag. Follow John on Twitter, Instagram and YouTube for the latest. Check out Gametime - the fastest growing ticketing app in the US, and the official ticketing app of 3 & Out and GoLow -  for tickets to all of your favorite NFL, NBA, NHL, NCAA teams. Concert and comedy show tickets, too. Go to Gametime now to create an account, download the app and use code JOHN for $20 off your first purchase. #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The volume. Just a reminder, you can catch me recording this podcast live on Am. Amp is a new live radio app that lets you call in and chat with me in person while recording. Get the app on Apple's App Store and make sure you follow me at John Middlecough to get notified when I go live. What is going on everybody? John Middilcoff's three and out podcast.

How are we doing my people? It is Monday, August 14th, recording a little pod, fresh off Lake Tahoe, which I can now recommend enough. I know a lot of you guys, if you don't live on the West Coast, probably have never been. It is just a wonderful place. I've been going there. I grew up two hours away. Came back to get out of the Arizona heat and just, it's the best. It's really hard to do.

But, you know, even though I'm gone a little vacation with the fam, I made sure to watch Trey Lance. So we peaked at, didn't peek. I watched the whole game. to the fourth quarter, but some thoughts on Trey Lance and just that, the latest, that situation, as well, just some other stuff, the Broncos, the Packers,

and just in general, a lot of you guys have DMed me over the years, but I saw a couple today in my DMs at John Middilcoff as the Instagram. It's the mailbag. We will do a mailbag as well after some football talk about what the preseason kind of means and how basically coaches and scouts evaluate it. So we'll discuss that a little bit

because it, It does matter for a lot of guys. The majority of, you know, a lot of these guys are going to get cut, but it doesn't mean their career is over. Some of them it will be. Some of this will be the highlight of their career, which doesn't suck. I mean, you made it to the NFL training camp, but a lot of these guys would be on practice squads.

Just kind of how the whole thing works, the evaluations. Some teams just can't keep people that they know are good players. It's just, it's a numbers game. And other than that, I think that's it. So I'll have podcasts. I'll have one basically the next three days. I think I'm going to go on with Colin on Friday. Maybe have my own podcast as well on Friday.

So a lot of content coming. The preseason, in theory can be cool. Then by the second half, you're like taking a nap. But yeah, if you can ever get to Lake Tahoe, highly recommend it. Anyone that listen to this that has, knows. If you don't, there's a reason why these guys go to that celebrity golf tournament, you know, that are from all over the country and that haven't spent time at Lake Tahoe and go every year. it's a

it's a truly, truly special place. It really is. It's good for the soul. That's all I'd say. Nothing like having a cocktail, a beer at Lake Tahoe. It doesn't get any better. We're playing a little golf on Friday. Great place to play golf if you can ever swing it.

Okay. Step in the pod. What I need you to do is I need you to go to your smartphone and download the game time app. Download the game time app. They're the official ticketing app of this podcast and they're friends of the podcast because we've used them. You guys have used them and I can't recommend them enough. You want to go to one of these preseason games.

You want to go to a regular season game, college football, baseball playoffs. Comedy shows, concerts, they have you covered. Just go to the GameTime app. Download it. Very easy to search interactive maps. Find out where you can sit at what cost. And when you type in the promo code John, that's promo code John, J-O-H-N. You get $20 off your first pair tickets.

Can't recommend them enough. Game time promo code, John. Let's start with the most talked about backup quarter battle, backup quarterback battle for a good team in the history of the league. It is pretty nuts, but it is the main story out of the defending, I guess they didn't make it to the Super Bowl, but a team that was in the NFC championship the last two years, the defending NFC West champs and a team that are going to be one of the three or four teams in the league to be heavy favorites to be back in that position again. And all we do, and listen, I'm in Northern California. Most of my friends are San Francisco 49er fans. It's all we talk about.

Trey Lance versus Sam Darnel. The thing with the NFL, like in college football, and I've seen it firsthand, and anyone, I bet a lot of people listening, either have kids in high school, maybe coach high school football, or just fans of high school football. There is a huge development level to those sports, right? In high school, you continue to get better. In college, you continue to get better. In the NFL, there's some of that as well.

And then there gets to a point where you're paid to play, a lot of money, you're either good enough or you're not. And sometimes it's because guys didn't take it seriously. Guys are lazy. Guys may not be smart enough or whatever to run the offense or a defense or whatever. There are different variables with every failed player. And sometimes it's just as simple as that guy's not good enough. But he's just not a good enough player to be a starting player on a good team. And honestly, on bad teams, you're going to be bad if that guy starts because he's just not that

good of a player. And I think sometimes we struggle to come to grips. And I don't really like the bust word because I've thrown around a lot. And sometimes a guy is just overdrafted, right? Solomon Thomas, who the 49ers drafted number three overall, is going to have a 10-year career. Like to me, a bust is Jamarcus Russell out of the league. Hell, Cleland Farrell, who also like Solomon Thomas, overdrafted, goes fourth overall. You're going to look up. The guy's going to play for a long, long time. To me, a bust is a guy who doesn't try Johnny Mansell, you Marcus Russell. If you end up playing in the NFL for a long time, like, I don't know, maybe it's on the team. Maybe it was on us on the outside. Like is Marcus Marriota a bust?

You're like, well, he was a second pick overall and you look up, he's played in the NFL for 13 years. So like I struggle with that one. I don't know if there's a right or wrong answer, but if you can play in the league for a long period of time, just because you got drafted seventh and you should have been a third round pick. If Solomon Thomas or Cleland Furrell were third round picks and you look up and you're God, that guy played for 10 years. You're like, what a draft pick, right? But the moment you're drafted really high, to me, that's on the GM and the coach. Players don't get to pick themselves, right? Or they don't pick themselves in the top five. So when you're drafted, like, Trey Lance was the player he was when the 49ers drafted. He was a raw product who they thought had a lot of upside. And I was all for it,

because under no circumstances can you take Mack Jones. But the simple reality, is that pick Kyle Shanahan, John Lynch, is a disaster. Because what we witnessed the other day, and I thought this the moment they signed Sam Donald, because if you're Sam Donald and you sign with the 49ers, listen, we can debate how good the guy is, how much upside there is left in the player, he's 25 years old. Here's what I know.

Look around the league at the backup quarterbacks. If you don't think there would have been a line of teams that would have looked at Sam Donald that said, we will sign you to be the backup quarterback. You're crazy. The 49ers publicly, have expressed over and over, we signed him to compete for the backup quarterback. Well, any human being will go to the place where your spot is set, right, if you have options.

And Sam Darnold came to the 49ers. When publicly they're saying he's competing to be the number two, give me a break. The moment Sam Darnold was signed for $3.5 million, he was the 49ers backup. Sometimes in life, things are rigged. A lot of us work in different industries, we go, that's not fair. welcome to society. We talk about it all the time in politics. This was a rig thing.

Just like last season. The 49ers, and I was going to a lot of the practices last year with Trey Lance, he was average at best. He had some good days, but a lot of bad days for a team that had Super Bowl hopes. And then right before training camp ended,

because Jimmy Garoppel had some physical question marks, could he pass physicals, how healthy was he, how much money did he want? They re-signed him. Why would they do that? It wasn't just, oh, the value. it was because they were very nervous with Trey Lance. And obviously it was taken out of their hands when he got injured,

but I believe this to my core, that if Trey Lance in the first month of last season would have struggled, they would have gotten to the bullpen very fast. On Saturday this weekend, Bruce Bochy made his return to play the San Francisco Giants. His starting pitcher did not make it through two innings. He treated the bad boy like a playoff game. He always has.

It's why he's won a lot in big moments. Kyle Shanahan would have done the same. the ship would not have sank with Trey Lance last year, assuming he stays healthy and was not playing very well. He's just not that good. And when you watch him, there are just basic things. You don't need to be Bill Walsh or Bill Parcells to see. He's not a very comfortable player. When you watch a quarterback, you can just see there's like a tension in their body, right? They're either just smooth. Watch Bryce Young with the Panthers. Whether it's good or bad, he looks very just comfortable in the position of standing at the quarterback position.

Tray Lance never looks comfortable, ever. And there's a robotic nature to the way the guy moves. Part of drafting a dual threat quarterback, which he was billed at, is getting a dual threat, right? You get it with Lamar, you get it with Kyler, you get it with Josh Allen. Hell, even Patrick Mahomes gives you some of that.

His athleticism is basically zilch relative to way it was built. And then from a throwing motion, he actually his arm strength is okay, but he should have thrown two picks, both were dropped, and one was in the red zone. And Rich Gannon one time said on a broadcast that a coach told him

that when you throw an interception in the red zone, it's equivalent to killing a young baby. He called it the baby zone. And listen, that was not Rich Gannon's take. That was what a coach told him a long time ago, and it's a disaster. And he threw one. It just happened to bounce on.

off the guy's hand and land in a 49er. So he gets credit for a touchdown. And honestly, you look at his numbers. I don't think numbers, for the most part, in the preseason and definitely in training camp practices, mean a fucking thing. Kyle Shanahan does not go and just look at his stats. Because if you just watch the game, you went, whoa, that's pretty bad. And he's not a comfortable player.

And you could say, well, their offensive line was the backups. Well, the Raiders were rolling with the backups. everyone's playing with the backups for the most part in these positions. He's uncomfortable. And it's very, very difficult for a good team to have an uncomfortable quarterback who's 23 and who started four games in NFL in his NFL career. He just hasn't played. I saw Colin calling him a major project still. They're not in the project game.

They swung and they missed. And sometimes that happens. In any industry, there are no guarantees, none. Right. And unlike a lot of industries where it's much. closer to a guarantee because you're like purchasing this building. We have leases in every single unit for the next eight years guaranteed X amount of money. Like it's on paper. It's not going to change. It's the fixed cost. In football and in sports in general, you're dealing with human beings.

There is nothing fixed about human beings. Some guys ascend, right? They just, for whatever reason, Josh Allen's a good example. He just kept getting better. It's like he just kept improving and improving and improving from that raw product that he was. And we say this all the time with high ceiling guys. I'm a high ceiling guy. I will repeat over and over. I was for the Tray Lance pick. It hasn't worked.

It's a disaster. There are a lot of different variables, but anytime you make those trades and a guy is going to be your third string quarterback, because don't get it twisted, that's the third string quarterback. And if we want to take the conversation a step further, I think the question mark is, would Kyle Shanahan make Brandon Allen the third? they're not going to cut them because of the financial ramifications on the salary cap of his dead money accelerates. But would they do a little bit like different scenario, but I'll just use this example,

when the Denver Broncos traded Vaughn Miller to the Rams. Remember, it's like, well, the Rams aren't having a cap space. They ate, I forget the exact number, but it was either like seven of his $8 million or $8 million of his $9 million. And the Rams gave them extra picks. Could the 49ers do some scenario? They ain't getting extra picks. But hey, we will eat because no one's picking up his fifth year option. will we pick up if he has, you know, I think it's $8 million this year, $9 million next year.

We'll pick up half of that. You give us a six round pick and we'll just wave the white flag. I think that's on the table, 100%. And Kyle Shanahan, because, listen, he hasn't won a Super Bowl, but the 49ers before he showed up were a fucking embarrassment. They went back, they went three years in a row where they essentially fired Jim Harbaugh. They hired Jim Tom Sula, who is just one of the all-time laughing stock won and duns in the history of the league. And then they hired Chip Kelly, who was more respectable, but his team actually wins,

loss was, I think it's one of the worst, definitely the worst defense in Niners history, and they won two games. It led him to Kyle Shanahan, and it led him to going to three NFC championships in the last four years and turning this franchise back into the behemoth that historically it has been in terms for the league. It does huge television ratings. They play in massive games. Fox absolutely loves these guys because they love them, the Packers, the Cowboys,

the Eagles, they want to love mixing up all those matchups. So, Kyle Shanay has a lot of equity for a guy that has not won a Super Bowl. If he waves the white flag on this quarterback, which I'm telling you, he is going to do, because he will not play with a guy who can't complete layups, who you can't trust to do basic stuff. You do not need to be a quarterback coach to watch a guy who is not just uncomfortable, who does not look like he sees the field. And you can't play the quarterback position if you can't see the field.

it's why we have so many quarterback misses, right? Because just because you see the field, maybe your talent's not good enough and you never are good enough to be a starter. And if you don't see the field, but you have these physical attributes, a lot of people in the league take chances on you because they think they can coach it up.

They think they can mold you. They got big egos. I mean, they're making a ton of money. They've done it before and they think they can do it again. And it's why you get so many random guys kind of coming out of nowhere, like all of a sudden, Kirk Cousins is a 15-year starter. Brock Purdy is a starting quarterback for the 49ers

because there's an instinctive element to their game. There is like innate stuff from a quarterback play level that is hard to quantify. It's why some guys are better quarterback evaluators than others. Andy Reed can see that shit. Kyle, pretty good at it. Sean McVeigh can get the most out of guys. And for whatever reason, they thought they could coach that up and tray.

And now three years, limited games, but whatever just does not really have it. He just not a very good player. Under no circumstances if I owned a team or I was a GM of a team, would I want that guy to be in my quarterback room? This is the pros. This isn't like, oh, he's a really good guy. Yeah, who cares?

A lot of good guys in the league can't play a lick. End up selling insurance, starting podcasts, you do another shit. This is the highest level. You either get it done or you don't or you get replaced. And the Niners are great example. They literally drafted a guy, Mr. Relevant, last pick of the draft. Boom. He was the lock starter going into year two. That's how fast it happens.

It's what I love about the league. There aren't any sacred cows. Like if Aaron Donald just falls off a cliff, like he just can't really play, let's say like this year, maybe just because of his greatness, he'd get like two years. But his clock would start. Like, that's how fast it happens. Jerry Jones loved Ezekiel Elliott. Clearly, I think any cowboy fan listening would agree.

It's probably one of his favorite players, guy he's gone to bat for, from a character standpoint when he was going through some shit, when he was balling. Jerry took a lot of pride in Zeke. When they pulled the trigger, drafted a running back that high, and then it worked out, they just cut him.

I mean, they took a dead cap hit because of cutting the guy. The NFL is ruthless, and there's no position that is more ruthless on than quarterback, because the moment I don't think you can play, I got to get rid of you. I can't hold on. Peyton Manning,

at the end of his career, they won the Super Bowl, and his arm wasn't working, didn't really want to retire. The league didn't want him anymore. Drew Breeze. Like, it was over. Rathusberger.

It just ends. And I'm talking about, those guys are like Hall of Famers. Sometimes young guys, you just can't play. And definitely for the 49ers. Like, you can't watch that game,

pull up his clips and think like, yeah, this guy's long for the team. Because you got to remove the money. They'll figure that out. Everyone always does. They'll have to eat some money or whatever. But my takeaway has all,

one, my stance was always Sam Darnel was going to be the backup. Not only is that never changed. I feel, I'd play. It's $10,000 on that today. Not that I was unsure, but I wouldn't have just put a lot of money on it just because weird shit happens. I have 100% to zero with a pike chart, Sam Darnham's going to be the backup.

One takeaway from that game is, is Traylands going to be on the team. I don't know how they facilitate it. I don't know the team they trade them to, but these are the conversations that are being had. I've worked in these buildings. I know what these people talk about. They're not talking about the stock market. They're not talking about who's going to win the NL East.

They talk about individual batters. and talk about the most important battles. And obviously for the 49ers, you know, I think the Trey Lance experiment draft pick did not work out and the writing's on the wall that it's over much sooner than later. And I was thinking about this and I've tweeted this out. It's just a fascinating thing that

Zach Wilson and Trey Lance, right? Trevor Lawrence is going to be a star. Kids a baller. But the next two picks in that draft, which was billed as this great quarterback draft, were Zach Wilson and Trey Lance. And I think both of them speak to the year that was 2020 in college football,

depending on where you played, even the SEC, I always heard things about Alabama and their training regimens, like it didn't really flinch in 20. And listen, the SEC played all their games, right? So they didn't flinch as a conference,

but I think different schools had different battles with weight room and training. And Alabama was ahead of the curve. And Mack Jones had one of the great seasons of all time. They kicked everyone's ass. They worked everyone. kind of a unique year. Like, it's not truly normal.

They've had years where they've also done that that were more impressive than that thing. But when you look at Trey Lance, he literally played one game that no one counted. It was a game out of thin air. It was stupid. You can't take anything away from it. And Zach Wilson,

who historically BYU plays a very good schedule. Anyone that falls college football knows, they play countless top 20 teams throughout the season. Right? I mean, they play all the Pack 12 schools. They'll play Notre Dame. They'll play who. ever. They do not shy away. BYU is a great place to evaluate future good players in the NFL.

When I was scouting, Ziggy Ansah was coming out and boom, he started shooting up the draft boards. Fred Warner on the night. Like they got a lot of good players. I don't need to list them all. They'd play in the league. Zach Wilson's season that year, because a lot of the teams they were playing didn't play out of conference games. So they canceled them all. If you go back and look at BYU, his main season, it was against nobody's. And he was good. And I liked him. I was intrigued. but looking back, like, Tray Lance did not play a game and Zach Wilson play nobody's. And they went two and three. Now, I would say that the Jets are probably still more bullish on there.

Some hope was Zach Wilson? Still a long way to go. Not that they could make him the start of this year if Aaron Rogers hadn't existed. They had to go in a different direction. But he's going to be the backup quarterback, at least of, you know, middle of August. But Tray Lance, like those two picks just kind of a disaster. And listen, I was also hammering like, I would have taken Justin Fields over all those guys. based on the physical attributes, the speed, his production in those playoff games.

But even he has some major question marks. And Mac Jones, to me, my take is not going to change. I think he's going to get everyone fired in New England. So the quarterback draft, like that year for position players was fantastic. And a lot of guys like sat out. Pena Sewell, Micah Parsons, right? These guys didn't play. Jamar Chase, like the elite of the elite wouldn't have mattered, right?

For the quarterbacks, though, I think beside Trevor Lawrence, who had multiple years even before that season of a resume, I think manipulated the process, tricked and fooled some people, and are in the situation they're in now. In historic, two guys drafted in the top three that going into their third year are still on the same team that drafted them are not going to be the starters. It's like a list of like four guys. And one of them is like Steve Spurrier. It doesn't happen. Not based on injury too, completely healthy.

And Trey's going to be the third string quarterback assuming that they don't trade them and just make Brandon Allen that guy from a financial standpoint that he's just way cheaper. So it just shows you things change fast in the NFL is what fascinates me about the business. And these teams, especially when you're winning, don't have time to fuck around. And I think the hopes and the prayers and the dreams of Trey Lance are kind of coming to fruition when it comes to the 49ers. And it's just kind of time to move on. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying.

Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball. basketball to college football or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment,

and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. A couple other things. Russell Wilson played into, I think, four series. I was thinking about this on the drive home today from Lake Tahoe is Sean Payton became kind of like a, I don't want to say a legend, but yeah, I mean legend. He was a Super Bowl champion for a team that was a complete joke in the New Orleans Saints. You win a Super Bowl with the Saints who forever were the Ains. Like that was a legendary performance. And then went on to just have a lot of success, winning games in the league, consistently winning a division and being the offensive play caller for a Hall of Fame quarterback.

When he got there, Drew Brees, you know, coming off the shoulder injuries, like going into his prime. they just molded together. And they were on the same page. They built the offense around his skill set. And they were just awesome for a long period of time. But they had a lot, you know, he knew exactly what he was. Fantastic pocket quarterback, not a very athletic guy and just had to win with supreme accuracy. Right.

He's one of, if not him and Steve Yon, like most accurate quarterbacks ever. You could argue these last moving forward, it probably gets manipulated a little bit with the way football's play. But Russell Wilson is the complete opposite. What made Russell a legendary player, a future Hall of Famer, was like this ad lib ability. He was an elite athlete. You never knew what was going to happen. And that at the same time, he used to drive Pete Carroll, who's a fantastic football coach, won a Super Bowl,

one national champions championships, has just won for the last 20 years, frustrating. Because he didn't ever know what was going to happen. He's a little old school, you know, likes predictable things. And I do wonder, one, the Broncos aren't nearly as good as we thought they were going to be last year, even if they would have had a good coach. Because part of the problem now is if Russell is not really good, and he no longer is. Now, is he the set 8th best quarterback, or is he like the 19th best quarterback? To me, that's up for debate, and we're going to learn that this season.

Some people, if you're bullish, like Sean Payton, can get him in the fringe top 10 again. I'm one of those guys, I'm starting to get a little nervous. One, their offensive line is not going to be good. So he's going to be running for his life. And he doesn't want to run for his life anymore. That's not how he wants to play. He doesn't want to get hit. Now, he's still, the arm strength can throw a great deep ball, but like, he's not, he can't play

like Drew Briggs. That's never been his style, right? Greg Maddox did not play like Randy Johnson. Not all players are the same. Steph Curry, LeBron James, guys play differently, right? Steve Young became a great player when he just started dominating from the pocket and he stopped running. He was really accurate. You know, Russell, like, I don't view the guy as Mr. Accuracy.

I view the guy as Mr. Playmaker, and those days are kind of done. So I guess where I'm getting at, I do think, was. Listen, Sean Payton making all this money. Russell making all this money. A ton of pressure on the organization. I do think it can go bad. I really do. I think they're probably much closer to a seven-win team

than competing to make the playoffs. And I feel better and better. Like, Sean Payton's telling you, like he's kind of saying some crazy shit. Obviously, he's playing these guys. They're big free agency signings. The Guard and McGlinchie. My buddies in the league that are on playoff teams

that do this, evaluate these guys, how they feed their families, are like, God, I didn't know much about the guard. I've watched McGlinchie forever. Like, McGlinchie can start if he's your fifth best offensive lineman and you can run the ball. He's not great in pass protection. So if you think Russell, like just because McGlenty didn't play in the preseason game, it's not like you're bringing in Lane Johnson, Trent Williams, or, you know, Tony Bisselli's coming back for you. This guy is a limited pass blocker, right? He can run block. But I don't know, man. You're going to get in positions where it's second and nine, third and ten, is Russell going to be willing to run for his life and play like he once played? I'm very, very skeptical. So they have some

talent on their team, clearly pretty flawed. And I just think there's this, Sean Peyton and Drew Brees were always like one together. They really were. They both were hired and signed at the same time, and they grew together. That's not the case here. You got Russell who's worth hundreds of millions of dollars, who's married to a celebrity, who's kind of got to this weird persona. You got Sean Payton, who's like this hired gun, who's wired like a Parcells. I just don't know if it's going to mesh. I would probably bet against it. And the other thing is, I know cowards low on love, Jordan Love. And I'm not saying I'm high on the guy. I betting against them just because of the history of the league. But I was in the car and I heard him call him a game

manager. Like that's what they're going to look for. Like, that is exactly what they're going to look for. And I think the way Jordan Love and I think Jordan Love and his agent know it. Because think about last year, Daniel Jones going into that season. Joke. Everyone made fun of him. Like, this guy's not any good. This guy's a complete bust. And then he doesn't have his, you know, fifth year option picked up, plays it out and signs for $40 million a year. So even if you go, well, that's best case scenario. Quarterbacks are so valuable. Jimmy Garapolo had a shattered foot who couldn't get traded a year before, signed for $75 million and over $30 guaranteed to the Raiders. Right?

the quarterbacks make outrageous sums of money. It's not like when you see the NBA contract. They gave who? What are we doing? That's a lot like quarterback contracts. And Jordan Love had to agree. It takes two to tango to do his little contract extension because they weren't going to pick up the fifth year option. I think that tells you, obviously, if the Packers, you do it because you want to mitigate your risk, right, if it's not good.

But if you're Jordan Love and you have some self-belief slash the agent, you go, man, if we just win eight, nine games and you throw 25 touchdowns, and this team's competitive, like, what are you worth to them? Right? What are you worth to them? And I'll tell you, at minimum, like $20 million a year. He's in a two-year, $11 million contract extension. So all he has to do, like this team is actually pretty equipped to play like they originally did when LaFleur showed up with Rogers. Like, listen, just take a deep breath. We're going to run the ball and we're going to try to play some defense. We've got a lot of young pieces. And what they did, LaFleur was there with Sean McVeigh when they resurrected the ramps and turned Jared Gey. off into a real player. Why? Because everything is based off the play action. We're going to run

the ball down your throat and we're going to do the boots, the waggles, the nakeds and the nudes, as Tom Goffin once called them, and give you half your throws are going to be layups. Right now, if you can't hit the layups and not everyone can, Tray Lance, you can't play in this office. You got no chance. And maybe that's the case. And we'll see. I know he missed one in the preseason, but like, listen, I think the Packers are telling you with the contract. And Jordan Love by signing the contract is a little nervous that it might not go well. But I do think they are going to ask him to be a game manager. Like that is going to be his role.

I mean, that's really a lot what this offense, especially with a non-Aaron Rogers level quarterback, ask you to do. Jared Goff, Brock Purdy, just get it out to our playmakers. And we'll run the fucking ball right down people's throats. And we'll put up 30 points a game. Now, I don't know if the Packers are quite as good as those two teams, right? But they're not that far away.

They do have a lot of talent, especially if these young wide receivers are good. So I think just get ready. If you're a Packer fan, the days of playing like Rogers and Farb are done. Like those are done. Now, just because we're going to play like a game manager doesn't mean it's always going to work. But when it does work, when he's winning, right?

When Jim Harbaugh first showed up to the 49ers, what did Alex Smith do? The game manager to death. Now, their defense was awesome. And I think any Packer fan knows, defense has been very questionable for the years. So the defense's got to be better. They've invested a million picks on that side of the ball.

eventually just as Gutikins miss on these guys, is your defensive coordinator bad? So that's going to be to me a huge emphasis for that team. And other than that, I got a DM just asking me about the preseason because like, what do you make of it? And every team is a little different, right? Tomlin will play a starters. Andy will play a starters.

I know the Saints looking to resurrect their franchise, played some of their starters in Derrick Har. Some teams look at it differently than Cowshanhan and Josh McDaniels. Every guy was in street close. I in 2020 would lean that way as a GM and definitely as an owner

I'm paying way too many guys way too much money to break a leg in some game in the middle of August but like Andy winning Super Bowls I mean clearly kind of knows

what he's doing right Mike Tomlin's never had a losing season so these guys aren't the village idiots when it comes to August football but beside the main guys and whether Mahomes

or whoever struggles like whatever none of it matters with established players were the resume. We judge them off regular season game. But when it comes to the backups and when it comes to the young players, you are not just fighting for slots on your team. If you don't make your team, it's a resume for the entire league. For two years when I worked with the Eagles, I was a pro scout before I went to college. And during this period of time, it gets split up

between your scouting department, you know, every, depending on how established you are, right? I think my first year, I got five teams. By the second year, I was a full-time pro scout. I got like 12 teams. And you evaluate every fourth to seventh round pick, every undrafted free agent that got a signing bonus, and then every returning practice squad guy. You give a grade for his preseason games. And then when the big cut comes down, you have them like, is that an upgrade over your team? Right. If it's a guard, hey, I think this guard is a 53 man guy. We need a guard. This guy's going to get cut. And maybe he doesn't get cut. Maybe he plays himself onto a team. But you're getting evaluated, not just by your own team. Because sometimes a team goes, shit, we love this.

guy. We think he's a 53 man guy, but he's our seventh delinement on the Cowboys. We don't have any room for it. Depending on your team or he's like the six receiver on Seattle. It's like we just on we're not have a spot. We're cutting him just because it's the business we're in. It's a numbers game. And sometimes you try to maybe start hiding them in preseason game, but you're getting evaluated by the entire league. The other thing these front offices do is they look at teams, I don't use the Cowboys example, that know their position of strength that go, hey, they are going to cut potentially an active roster guy to put on their practice squad, that if we need that position, we should be all over this group.

And then as it goes to the pro scouts, it kind of, the highest grade of guys get watched by your director of personnel, your GM, and you kind of put together a plan of attack. It's why whoever your favorite team is right now, you have to do the best job humanly possible of like, can we keep this player if you view him of a 53 man guy, even if he don't have the numbers? Like, how can we manipulate our roster? Sometimes it's impossible. Sometimes you legitimately don't have a spot.

And sometimes you go, and I saw it last year with the 49ers with Brock Purdy. They re-signed Jimmy. They just cut Sudfeld even though they gave him $2 million because we like Purdy. We are not cutting Brock Purdy. We are not risking because the moment you cut a player, a recently drafted guy, a last year practice squad guy, he is subject to waivers. And the moment a guy is subject to waivers, any other team that claims that guy. Now, granted, they would have to put him on their active roster.

He's no longer on your team. So if you're willing to cut a player, after the preseason to, you know, to cut down to 53, you have to acknowledge you may never get him back. He might be gone. He may no longer be your player. A lot of times you got a pretty good idea. Like, this guy's probably going to get claimed, but it is what it is. And sometimes you trade that player. But a lot of times you get guys like, God, we're hoping to get him on the practice squad and he gets claimed.

Quarterbacks now with the third quarterback, it'd be very, very risky. Like, I'm watching Aiden O'Connell. Honestly, I didn't watch much Purdue football the last couple years. My big takeaway watching him, and this gets back to Trey Lance. the Raiders, not in a million years, would you trade Aiden O'Connell, your fourth round pick for Trey Lance? They would say no faster,

I mean, then your head would spend. I mean, they couldn't say no fast enough. And that's how things, it's what I love about this time. Some guys are taking huge steps. Some guys are getting worse. Some vets are like, hey, how about this right guard that we got,

seventh year player, we owe them $8 million this year. The guy we just drafted in the fifth round is every bit as good. And maybe he's 90% as good as the guy, but by the end of the season, he'll be as good and he's way cheaper. So a lot of these discussions surround money. Because the moment you're a vested veteran and you've been in the league,

I think it's four plus years, the moment you make a regular season roster week one, so if I'm a guard and I'm a seventh year guy, just pick a random team. I play for the Bengals. And I'm fighting for my spot, right? It's me and this fourth round pick. We're battling for the starting right guard.

And I've been the starter for a couple years, but I'm battling for my spot. if that guy proves to be as good as me, they won't keep me on the roster because if I'm the starting guard for them week one and they're on the fence, they owe me my entire $8 million or $5 million or whatever you're paying me, it's guaranteed then the rest of the season. So it's why a lot of fringe veteran guys that make decent amount of money

that are getting pushed or even if there's not clearly worse than the young player, it's just an economic gate and go, God, we could save, I don't know, three, five, $10 million over a couple year period on a guy that by the end of the season could be better than that guy. Annie's younger, Annie's ascending and maybe we're doing a scheme change. So there is a ton going on right now, but just know this. While you and me, and now I definitely do, might fall asleep on the couch in the second half of the preseason game and have our girlfriend, our wife, our father, our friends go, yeah, just turn on the PJ Golf Tournament, you know, turn on to something else.

those plays are being watched by the league. They are being heavily, heavily just combed through. Plays broken down, cut up tapes made. Because think how many teams have positions of needs. I don't care how good you are. Every team has a question mark at a position group. And these guys, and these guys know it. And they're told that when training camp starts all throughout training camp,

just because you might not make our team, just because you might not be reping with the two, and you're reping with the threes. The entire NFL is watching. So when you hear the cliche thing that a lot of people make fun of, the eye in the sky doesn't lie, it is true during this period of time. Because for a lot of guys,

especially those that end up playing on practice squads for a couple years, this is their only resume. This is the only time that they get filmed because they might not get to play next year or this year, whatever, in the NFL. So that film kind of keeps them alive in the NFL. And it's hard. I've been the guy that cuts players. I've also seen the reaction of guys that make teams.

It's a, for some of these guys that won't make the NFL and won't make an NFL team, making a touchdown in the fourth quarter, putting on that jersey and just getting to play, 10 snaps in front of their parents, that's pretty cool. I mean, it really is. I'm not the biggest sap. I'm not the most emotional individual when it comes to anything in business. But like, I will acknowledge you were some guy smaller school, maybe non-power-5, making tackles in the fourth quarter of NFL games against the Cowboys,

against the Eagles, you know, against the Chiefs. Like, that's, that's a moment that your family will get pictures of that will hang in your house. Like, that's,

that's cooler than any of us that never got to the NFL, that never were good enough to sniff playing college football, just love the sport, maybe playing in high school. And that is a moment that a lot of these guys are going to realize. And some of those guys then are on that next level of, like, going to be a practice squad guy, but still going to have to fight for his life.

And it's a doggy dog time because this is not, this period in the NFL is not about schemes. It's not about game plans. It's about evaluations. It's the last time of the league, right, or of the calendar year beside the trade deadline that even if it's a PAC trade deadline, you're talking a couple of players. You get free agency. You get the draft. And then you get this big cut down. So you got three main times to add, improve, and change your roster.

and these next, whatever the official date is, August 31st, September 1st, whatever that date is, is a massive, massive time for NFL teams. Let's get to a little thing we call the mailbag. And the way you get in that mailbag is at John Middlecough. At John Middlecough is the Instagram. Fire in those DMs and get your question answered here on the show. We'll start with Heinz. My dad used to work a lot with Heinz ketchup back in the day.

For the mailbag, Zach Martin. Great job by Jerry holding the line. a Giants fan. I'm sad, was hoping we could trade for him. Is Dak going to love having trouble getting paid? Love the pod and go loke. Great work. Yeah, here's the thing. Jerry Jones would never, in a million years, trade Zach Barton to the Giants, but do agree. I also think, you know, here's the thing with Sequant. He was arguing over a small percentage of money, right? He was getting paid 10, he thought he was worth 16, they were offering 13. You're talking 15, 20 percent, right? And sometimes it's easy to hold the line when you know they can break down. But once you pass that date,

Sequin was never going to get any more money. They just put it into a signing bonus, incentivize some stuff. Right. So he just didn't have an option. Zach Martin is making 14. And he wanted whatever, 20. So Jerry kind of, what, guaranteed some money the next year, added like $8.5 million basically to his contract. Guarantee. wise. But I agree. Once you get to a certain point, I understand drawn a line in the sand. I remember Aaron Donald and Khalil Mack did it because they were about to make $87 and $90 million. Like Nick Bose is not showing up. He knows, you know, his rookie contract, whatever, $30 million. He's talking about a contract that's probably $115 million guaranteed. So it's like, I'm not just holding the line.

Like we're talking an astronomical amount of money. I think in Zach Martin's situation, like, you kind of add him by the balls, right? Just like the Giants had Sake one by the balls. Daniel Jones, you know, had some leverage. Who are you going to, what are you going to do? Signed Jimmy Garapolo. Is that what you're going to do, Brian Dayball? I'll call your bluff. I bet you won't. And he didn't. And he got more money. So this is all about leverage at the high, I mean, talking these price points. Some of us to just do normal deals. It's pretty easy, right? You just some, some deals come together very, very easily. And some, I don't care whether you're in tech, Wall Street, or the NFL. You start

talking whatever, nine figures, $100 million plus, those are complicated. They really are. And when they're not, it shows you how good of a business partner you have. Like, I know how he said, the Jalen Hartsteel was easy to do. The Ravens got a little difficult. But part of that was there was some other variables, but ultimately Herbert, easy deal to do. I think anytime you can be in business with people and just have easy deals shows you and everyone's profiting and everyone's doing well, whether it's a quarterback, whether it's a podcast, whether it's, I don't. I don't, I don't, a bank. Those are the type people you want to do business with.

Because we've all been in situations, relationships are very similar, right? Personal and professional, they can be difficult. And difficult relationships, if they're profitable, are worth it. But if you kind of question,

it's like, I don't know. Question for the pod. If Caleb has the season, we all anticipate him to have at USC and has looked at like the number one overall pick in 24. Do you anticipate the team holding the number one pick in the draft

to target Lincoln Riley prior to the draft as their replacement head coach since he has a rapport with Caleb. Obviously, the team would need to have a head coaching vacancy, but if you're holding the first overall pick, the head coach is likely gone anyway.

I do think it depends. Look at last year, the Chicago Bears had it. They brought the same coach back. Sometimes, you know, a first year head coach, team could be terrible, right? The Cardinals,

are they going to fire Gannon? Probably not. The Colts, let's just say they're terrible. Are they going to fire him? No. Demico, let's say they're god-awful. Tomiko's good. So I do think it's depending on the situation.

When you end up there with, right, Trevor Lawrence, that year they had a head coaching vacancy. So I guess it's possible. Now, Lincoln is much more accomplished than Cliff. Crazy thing is Lincoln and Cliff, both Texas Tech guys, both buddies. Now, Cliff's on his staff. But I think when you do that, it's like, well, this guy knows Kyler. It's like, uh, you know, a lot of people did any one of the cold?

no paid Manning, did Belichick know Tom Brady? It's not necessity. And if you're a good enough player, you're going to help make the coach a legend. So I don't think it's a lock. I think it's like you said, a lot of variables there. I think a lot of the teams that could potentially have the first pick could just have holdover coaches. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast, Superhuman, documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball, college football or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me

or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. My favorite football pod, but I like this guy. Have you ever heard of owners paying players

under the table to satisfy a difficult negotiation I'm sure he thinks of giving Zach some money off to the side. Thoughts. I think there are ways you can kind of do it legally, right? Like you could help facilitate your guy getting commercials. You can help facilitate those guys in your market getting deals. It's easier for, you know, George Kittle has a lot of marketing deals around San Francisco. Like did the 49ers directly give him money, but can they help him get those? Obviously, Jerry. I think the Rams, some of the New York teams. So I think there are benefits, and that's not illegal.

There are benefits of doing that. I think it is so risky. And football is such a sport of people just talking, and everyone essentially just gossiping throughout the league. And I think the penalties would be so extreme. Because if you got caught paying a premium player cash under the table, just blatantly cheating, the league would have no choice but to come at you with the fire of a thousand cents. So it probably used to happen all the time in pre-internet, pre-emails, pre-phones, 100%.

70s, 80s, 90s, no doubt, right? Honestly, even probably early internet. I just think the ability to track stuff, hard to trust, you know, that just no one's going to say anything. I doubt it. I really do. Not saying it doesn't, but I think the way that you'd watch like a mob movie, right? I don't.

I don't. And I'm not naive about business. Listen, the private sector, those of you guys that work in certain industries, the alcohol industry is notoriously one. I went to dinner recently with a guy that's in Arizona that's a part of a company that's just kind of a heavy hitter and,

you know, the alcohol business, I'll just keep it that way, keep it universal. And he's like, honestly, you know, it used to be much more of the Wild West than it is now. Just regulations. It's too risky to get caught. Not saying that there aren't some like, you know, $10,000 handshakes, but for the most part, it's just not worth it. We're all making too much money. We're all making too much money. And ultimately, some of them to make a move, because ultimately, like, what are you giving them on the table? You're not going to give them $10 million

on the table. So you give them a couple million dollars. Is that actually worth it? To lose a first round pick. It's just not. Or lose multiple first round pick. Like if you got caught paying some sweet player, let's say the, let's say, I'll give you an example.

Let's say the 49ers. Paid Nick Bosa, 75 guaranteed. And people are like, what? He got way less than his brother. And then, it's like,

are they paying him on the table? And let's say they were. They were paying them like, I don't know, $20 million a year. Why don't they just pay them out of the salary cap, the money that they're getting?

from the media deal anyway. Isn't that the way to make sense? Okay. Joe, just watch the condensed version of the Niner and Raider preseason game today. Got to say that trade did not impress. And I thought Sam looked pretty good. I've heard you talk about being a Niner fan growing up, and I feel those biases tend to come out in some of your takes. Anyway, I feel like everything changed for the better once Kyle Shanahan showed up. Niners were winning more games, scoring more points, and in general more exciting to talk about. Do you think Kyle will stay with us long term? Or do you think he could actually finish the job and win a Super Bowl?

Yeah, it's just the biggest obstacle the Niners have to overcome is they are in a tier right now with the Chiefs, who kicked their ass last year, the Bengals, the Bills, and whoever else comes out of the AFC, who have franchise quarterbacks. And usually when you look at the quarterbacks that win the Super Bowl, Brady, Manning, Rothersberger, Rogers, right?

Who won it? Stafford. It's usually high-end guys. Now, you can argue Stafford all you want, but he's a high-end talent, and he's had a high-end year. It's very rare that, like, the Flacco's win it. Brad Johnson, and there is a major question mark on Brock Purdy.

Not the, like, the guy we saw last year in those games was really good. I've been watching football professionally for a long time. was fucking good. He was better than Jimmy was. And Jimmy was fine. But they proved that they can compete for a Super Bowl with Jimmy. So if Purdy is going to be better than Jimmy, like they have a chance. It's just abnormal to do it. And maybe Purdy goes on to have a long career and he becomes like the next cousins. But it's hard. You know, so I think that's their biggest question mark, is can they win the Super Bowl without Moms, without Josh Allen, without Burrow? There was a reason

they tried to get Matt Stafford. The Rams ultimately got him. A little inside job with Jared Goff, which honestly a great trade for the Rams, or the Lions. But they wanted Matt Stafford, because like the Rams, they have the same freaking idea.

They drafted Trey Lance hoping that they could get Josh Allen, and he looks more like Deshaun Kaiser. Hey John, big picture question for you with the pod. What are some key elements NFL coaches are looking for in the preseason from coaches, challenges, to players? As a casual fan, I'm unsure what coaches are looking for because we are watching,

practice squad guys play. We talked about it earlier in the podcast, but another thing is most of these teams are not game planning, right? What will happen over the next couple weeks? You got a pretty good idea by about mid-August, what your 53 is, maybe a guy here, a guy there. You start as practice goes, like if you're the Pittsburgh Steelers, what are you going to start doing?

You're going to start preparing in practice just leading up to week one, period here, period there for your defense and your offense against looks. of the 49ers. If you're the Bears or the Packers, you start using some of their scheme stuff to practice against. And I think it'll start within the next couple days. Leading up to the first preseason game,

you were just putting in your offense and your defense. And when you call plays, it's just calling plays that you have, it's your playbook. And then once the season starts, you run your playbook, but it's all scheme specific based on the game plan.

You just have a general playbook and then you add plays and stuff as a season goes on, based on the teams you're playing, based on the defenses or offenses you're playing. So when you see the practice squad guys or the young backup guys, you just want to see if they can execute the offense.

Right? Like, you know this rookie seventh-round receiver, like can he run the routes? We're telling him, does he know the place? Does he block? Does he try hard? Is this talent going to translate? So in your scheme, like in your,

can he execute your stuff? And really, in the preseason games, when that guy plays a lot, that's all they're looking for. And maybe if he's like, you're thinking about, well, could he be our backup? You start wondering,

could he execute your scheme during the regular season? But right now, you're just trying to know, can he run your place? And then I think your guys that, like, are sitting are going to start

using some of the scheme of your first game opponent. I think I was watching Kyle Shannon's press conference last week and he even says, like, every day he tries to spend a little bit of time, or at least every other day,

on one of their first four opponents, just getting a feel for their defense, getting a feel for their personnel. And I would imagine a lot of coaches do that. Like, if you don't think, I don't even know who the, oh, the Chiefs play the Lions. Like, I'll promise you, if you just walked in Andy Reid's office this week,

you're going to look up and see the Lions film on. I got no clue who the Chiefs playing this week on the preseason. The big guy is going to start focusing on their first opponent. And trust me, he already has. He did it this summer. but I mean specifically, right? Like, he's going to watch their preseason game. It's just, he's going to start getting his mind

and their personnel, their backups, their scheme. He did it over the summer. He admitted to it. Like, what did you do for vacation? He's like, worked, you know? So Belichick, same thing. Like, who do you think Belichick's watching? You're going into his office.

Eagles play the Patriots, right? They're going to be some Eagle film on. All the preseason games, seeing if he can glean anything scheme-wise because they got new coordinators. So it's, there's a lot going on. It's, honestly, I remember my first year in the NFL,

it was overwhelming. It crossed my mind, like, maybe I can't cut it. I swear to God. Like, the whole season was intense. But that preseason was, that was intense. It is, it's overwhelming. Overwhelming is the wrong word. It's intense for Belichick,

Howie Roseman, Pete Carroll, Kyle McVeigh, you are. It's a lot going on. It's not overwhelming for those guys because they know it. If you're not just super organized experience helps, once these guys been in a league a while, coach or executive, it's

you understand how to attack it, but there's a lot of work to be done. There are a lot of moving parts, a lot of players in the league. I'll never forget. I mean, the anxiety I have, I can feel it coursing through my veins right now. That first training camp was just like, holy shit, this is intense. Long

listener first time in the DMs. I feel like this may have been asked before, but do you think the NFL could go to a subscription-based platform, kind of like they have with NFL Plus already, but maybe the ability to subscribe to your favorite team as well as the league as a whole? I'm a Detroit fan that lives in Arkansas. So the only game I usually get to see is a Thanksgiving game. For me personally, I feel like this could be a good idea, although I'm not sure what would work with the TV deals. Well, this is the thing, bro. Think about this. And listen, it was was more difficult with direct TV in the package, but the internet's changed the game.

So you'll get all your local games in Arkansas, whatever, CBS and Fox, and then obviously you get the primetime games, but I would imagine in Arkansas, you get a lot of Cowboys games. They're getting a lot of NFC East and then the national games. YouTube TV now has the package.

So you can get YouTube TV and watch every Lions game. That's, when I moved last year, I did it for the 49ers. Like I just got, and I only got the internet package. Right? So I didn't have direct TV, but YouTube TV is going to be incredible.

I mean, it's going to be your best friend. So if you are, and you have to get it this year, I mean, your team might make the playoffs. So just get the package YouTube TV. I think it's an absolute no-brainer. Hey John Longtime listener, Alma Mater City of Slow. That's where you're from. I'm a big Bengals fan. I'm constantly hearing how the Bengals won't be able to keep Burrow, Chase, and Higgins together.

My question is why not? Burrow has said multiple times that he will work his deal to keep everyone. T and Chase have both stayed to the point. plan to Albioncensee for a while. What is your opinion? My opinion is this. Yes, they can keep all three guys. But ideally, you like to have a, you like to have like, uh, complimentary pieces, right?

You want a premium tackle. You want a linebacker. You want a corner. You want one highly paid wide receiver. It's hard to have duplicates at certain positions, right? Like, Jamar Chase is going to be a Jordan, uh, Justin Jefferson level number. Devonte Adams. His number is going to be enormous.

even if T. Higgins is the second tier, that's still 20 million, right? So Joe Burrow, like, we know the numbers. Like, his contract is set. It's Herbert, a little more, right? It's $195 million. It's whatever, $45 to $50 million a year. You can't really avoid that. To me, it's not that they technically can't pay all three guys. It's that if T. Higgins was a starting corner in the equivalent, like a really good fringe pro bowl guy, it'd be a no-brainer. You just pay all three of them. But, can you have two wide receivers, even if you fudge the salary cap, making that much money? I just think you have to ask the question, fundamentally. Could you invest it into other positions?

That would be my question, because Jamar Chase is going nowhere. So really, we're talking Chase and Burrow, do you entertain? Like, would you trade Higgins, like, play out this season, would you play Higgins, trade Higgins for, could you get like two-toes? Like, would you entertain that? I think you have to think about it from a team building standpoint. But yeah, you can financially afford to keep all of them, right? It's just, do you want two highly paid wide receivers? It makes it very difficult.

Because what made, if you think about it, the chiefs unique for all those years is Tyreek started making a lot. But Travis, because he plays tight end, is way cheaper. So they're not on the same wage scale. So if you have, let's say you have like a Luke Keekley or Fred Warner on the Bengals, you would be much more inclined like, oh, that's easy. We pay this guy $15 million. We pay Jamar, right, $28 million and burrow, whatever. And it kind of bounces out at different positions.

I think it gets very, very difficult non-O or D-Ly linemen to have duplicates making a shitload of money. Like, think about the Eagles right now. A.J. makes a ton, but Devante Smith doesn't make any money. They've paid Dallas Goddard, but he's a tight end. So relative to like, he makes less than like a Mari Cooper. That to me, you have to look at it from that perspective, not that technically you can pay them all.

Yes. Then you just start cutting other positions. Heard you say you were going to Tahoe this weekend, what's your favorite spot around the lake is, and second, as a lifelong Niners fan from the Bay Area, what do you think the main reason Trey Lance failed with the Niners? I was so high on them when they traded up, but since I've hopped on the Purdy train,

interested to hear your thoughts. I grew up going to South Lake. For those of you that don't know Lake Tahoe, that is the side of the lake where the golf tournament is with all the celebrities and the athletes. And one of my best friends had a house in this place called Fallen Leaf Lake, which is a little bit away from Lake Tahoe, just an awesome place, a little less rules. You kind of have a good time on the boat. It's if any of you have seen the bodyguard, it's where the bodyguard was filmed. So South Lake is where the casinos are as well. I grew up going to South Lake. Well, the last couple of years I've spent time on

the West Shore. It's pretty incredible. It's where The Godfather was filmed. Zuckerberg now has a place in that kind of compound. It's absolutely gorgeous. My brother's wife has a place in Inclined Village, which is on the Nevada side, which they now have named Income Village, because a lot of people have gone there to avoid the California State taxes. Because you go from 13 to zero, pass an imaginary line. You know, a lot of people complain about taxes, but until you cross an imaginary line and see them on your tax sheet, you're like, damn. Pretty good living.

I just cross a line that doesn't even exist. In that, we spent time there on Saturday at Incline. It was beach, the bar, the pool is pretty badass. So, yeah, I mean, I don't discriminate when it comes to Lake Tahoe. I still like South Shore. I think the West Shore hadn't spent that much time. It's badass. An Inclined Village, if podcasting goes well for me and I ever get a place there,

it would be on the Nevada site line for 100% sure. And on Trey Lance, you're just not good enough. I think it's just that simple. It's just he doesn't have, he doesn't see the field. He doesn't look like a natural quarterback. I think it's just that simple. Like when you watch, even a lot of the hybrid players, think of like Kyler Murray.

He's got some flaws or whatever. But when he's playing well, you're just like, God, he just looks like a quarterback. Most of the guys that are good in the NFL, they just might have bad plays or whatever. Dak, cousins, think about some of the guys we nitpick, Derek Carr. they still feel like, like you just watch him.

You go, yeah, he's got some flaws. Like, when I watch Trey, I watch a guy, I was in the car, I listened to Michael Lombardi's podcast. It's like he looks like a guy, maybe his co-host said this, and I was like, that's a pretty good line. He looks like a guy playing a quarterback in a movie. It's just not natural to him.

You know, and I think you go back to, none of the teams in the Big Ten offer him scholarships to play quarterback. You know, sometimes you can get by with talent at lower level. I think it's very, very difficult in the pros. And the NFL is a lot about accuracy, touch, manipulation, being calm under pressure, which is hard. It's why these guys make so much money.

Joe Burrow, Mahomes, like, these guys are so calm under pressure. Even the guys we nitpick. Kirk Cousins and Dak, like, they do it at such a higher level than the guys that can't. And I think there's a level of tray, stuff you can't quantify, right? You can see the ball wobbling. You can see an incomplete pass. but it's hard to quantify like no one's in his eyes but himself. But like coaches, no.

We go, yeah, he doesn't see it. I bet that's something that like when a lot of coaches throughout the NFL watch Trey Lances tape, the number one thing they'll say is like, he just doesn't see it. And sometimes you can coach up a guy to see it because of the offense, because of the scheme. Listen, I know he hasn't played, but he's been in the scheme now for three years. Sam Donald showed up yesterday. Brandon Allen showed up this year.

Brock Purdy was a seventh round pick last year. shouldn't be that difficult in preseason games. I don't give a shit how bad your offensive line is. He wouldn't pull the trigger. He kept hesitating. He's like, you got to let it rip. I understand if CJ Stroud or Anthony Richardson, they've been in an NFL pads in a helmet now for 15 days.

This dude's been in the league for three years. So even if he hasn't played that many games, every day at practice with these guys, every day for years. I recently read an article that Trent Williams compared Brock Purdy to cousins. Williams stated in the article that both cousins and Purdy were similar in that they both took football very seriously. I would be happy if Brock turns out to be similar in play style to cousins,

but what does Purdy need to do to show to be on the level of Drew Brees? Here's the thing. I think it's pretty simple. I think it's very unfair, and I'm guilty of it, we're all guilty of it. comparison is always the highest end guy. Like, oh, this guy kind of looks like Steph Curry. It's like, oh, could this be the next Tiger Woods? It's like shit.

Is this guy kind of like process like Peyton Manning? I think we need to start at the cousins at best, right? And even that. I mean, this guy's going to go on to be a 12, 13 year starter. I think the thing with Purdy that does different in cousins, and right now, Cousins Arm, which I think got better throughout his career. I think the version of Cousins Arm in Minnesota was better than early on his career.

I think he's got a pretty good arm. I think he's got a better arm than DAC as a guy that he gets compared to a lot. Cousins is not a very good athlete relative to the NFL people. So he can't scramble. He can't ad-lip. Purdy is a better athlete than Cousins. Pretty can move. The difference, though, is Cousins are a little taller, so it's easier for him to see.

I guess maybe Cousins a little shorter to think, actually. The thing with Drew Brees, Drew Brees did not move. I mean, occasionally on some boot and like waggle stuff. But he was not, I would not consider Drew Brees the athlete. not that he was a bad athlete, but he was a pocket quarterback. And the offense that Sean Payton, like, they were just perfect for each other. So can he be that version to Kyle, which is insane to even say? I mean, Drew Breed is a first bout Hallfamer and won a Super Bowl,

and a lot of their success was him, where Purdy, who actually was really good, statistically, and I test and everything last year, has a long way to go from being the guy that the team depends on. So I think he just has to just be. I don't know, throw 35 touchdowns this year, which he should be able to. They got Debo Samuel, they got Christian McCaffrey, they got Brandon Iuke, they got George Kittle, they got dudes. Juan Jennings is a good player.

But he's got, let's just, let's just like become Derek Carr, you know, and Kirk Cousins early on in their career and then go from there. I'm guilty of that too. Other than the Vikings finishing a miraculous 8-0, I think it was in one-score games last year, why do you think it is that a lot of people are taking the Lions to win the NFC North over the Vikings this year? Well, I think you could make the argument that the talent on the two teams is not that far apart. I think the Lions have added a ton of talent. I mean, I think Hutchinson's going to be a stud.

So is Hutchinson the best delin of the two teams? You know, is there that big of a gap of Jared Goff and Kirk Cousins if Jared Goff is going to play like he did last year? you know, it's not like the Vikings have some super established coach, really good season, but it was one year. The Lions have a lot of question marks too, right, in terms of Dan Campbell. But I watched those games last year, especially I think the one in Detroit that Minnesota came back to win. I don't know if I watched both of them. I definitely vividly remember watching the one of Detroit thinking like, I don't see the difference in the talent on these two teams. I really don't.

And there's a physical nature to Detroit that I thought. at the end of the season that Minnesota didn't have now. You had Flores, the defense could be better. I think it's fair to say it's probably closer to a coin flip than it is everyone picking the Lions. I'm going to pick the Lions. I just believe in their talent. Now, I don't think the Lions are going to win the Super Bowl,

but I think you're going to be good. I really do. Hey, John, got to give you a big shout out before anything else. I like this guy, Mike. Your content has gotten me through the summer with no football. Props for making it happen. Appreciate you. I always love when your life and career advice.

I feel like I remember you mentioning you had a small career gap between your time as a scout and your time in radio. What did you do in the intermediary to make ends meet? How did you balance the demands of life while still developing launching your new career? When I got fired, contract not extended, however you want to define it in Philly, I was living in San Francisco. Now, I was lucky that I had a buddy, a family friend, my cousins were good friends with, who was crushing it in San Francisco. San Francisco. So he had rented me a room in a city that was shooting like a rocket chip at the time in 2013 with tech money. My room was like $800. Right. The same room, the equivalent should have been Forex that. So I was paying nothing in rent. And then I would say by within a couple months,

now I took unemployment. I remember I never knew anything about unemployment. I'd never been unemployed. Hell, I'd only been working in my late 20s, right? I mean, I was 30 years old. I was like what I don't even know what unemployment is besides in my mind. I'm thinking unemployment was something that, like, I had too much pride to do it. And then my cousin, who's a business owner, is like, bro, that's your money. You paid into it. Like, that's, you give that money there. Don't be an idiot.

Use it. So I was able to use that to survive for a couple months as I just started doing, like, Mike Silver helped get me in the local Comcast and I started doing some local TV. I started doing radio hits and I started making money. I was able to make, not much, but you have to remember, when I actually, got fired in the end of, I was making 50 grand. So it wasn't like a lot of my friends in the real world, you know, private sector jobs were already by that time at 30 years old, making 150, 200 grand, 300 grand. I mean, they were crushing it, right? I was by far the poorest person of

anyone that I hung out with, not in football. So my standard of living was not that high. And I was able to start making several thousand dollars a month kind of hustling as actually I was taking unemployment too, because I was only working part time. And then it just kind of material. I got, I was doing full-time radio basically by that fall and doing TV all the time. So it just kind of happened quick. And I started doing some stuff with Bleacher Report. Yeah, just, you know, part of it, when you've never made any money, even, it's not like I was 22. You know, I was 29, 30 years old. You're kind of naive. Maybe I was 29. Maybe I was 29. Maybe you're a little naive to the pressure and what. Like, God, I don't really have a future. What am I going to do? I wasn't really that scared, you know?

And I think it actually has served me well as I've gotten older of like, you know, listen, I fired whatever. I mean, it's like things, some stuff is out of your control. Now, it's easier said than done. If you got a couple kids, you got a big mortgage payment. Like my life is completely different now, right? I'm to hell. I'm still paying for an office and I got a mortgage payment starting on this new house.

So, and I got a big construction project going. So like as you get older, things change. I don't have kids. But I think it really helped that I was pretty naive and I honestly wasn't really that scared And I you know I was very lucky to have a mom and dad that didn't really say like uh you gotta find a job right away Figure it out you know they didn't I didn't really have like outside pressure that mess with my head So just kind of swung my pick and I hustled I'm a hustler by nature so I got in pretty Quick and there was some luck I had a buddy that had a radio show guy at the local radio station

And it just should happen fast I don't want to say I'm lucky because I had spent, you know, basically six years working in football, a hundred hour weeks making nothing. Like I was in position to talk about football and I'm just a natural talker. So it was a perfect transition. You know, I meant more for this medium than working in football. But I know football better than anyone that hasn't worked in football that talks about it for a living. So it's like I feel pretty comfortable.

I was pretty confident, I guess, when I made the transition. I also, one thing that served me well is I didn't want to get back to the NFL. So I immediately just start saying what I think. Like I was just authentic in the way I talked about it. Like, this guy sucks. I don't think this coach is any good. And it's what a lot of guys don't want to get back into sports.

Like Bob Myers, who's won four championships, was the GM of the Dynasty Warriors, is going to start working for ESPN on NBA countdown. I have zero faith. And Bob's a high-level guy. he is going to talk shit about players and coaches. He's not going to do it. And if you're not willing to do it,

it's just going to be hard to be good at what we do. Because you've got to speak for the fan. And the fan sees it. We all see it. And everyone's thinking it. Are you just willing to say it? And if you're not willing to say it, then you can't hack it.

And I was willing to say it immediately. And at the time, Harbaugh was going through some stuff. The Raiders were a disaster. And I came in guns blazing. I mean, I was firing from every freaking angle. I think I say what I think now. I mean, at the time, I did not give a shit. And it served me well.

So, yeah, sometimes you've got to be careful, depending on what you do, though. Don't take that tactic for everything. Have a good one. I will be back again. Probably tomorrow. I'll do another podcast, a lot going on in the league. And I took, I didn't have a Monday pod. So I got to keep pumping them out.

And let's all have a good week. Peace. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced. games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within

probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.