The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 3 and Out - Mel Tucker Money Grab; Pac-12 Can't Hang; Player Eval vs. Development; Stafford's Dead Cap Trade Killer

Episode Date: February 14, 2020

In this episode, Middlekauff gives his thoughts on Mel Tucker jumping ship from Colorado to Michigan State, why it's just another example of the Pac-12 being a "Power 5" conference in name only, why he agrees with former Texans GM Rick Smith that NFL teams should be spending more resources developing draft prospects instead of just evaluating them, and why the dead cap hit for a vet QB like Matt Stafford - and other big names - will prevent teams from trading them. He also answers listener questions in Middlekauff's Mailbag. Follow John on twitter @JohnMiddlekauff and go to theherdnow.com to find the latest content. Subscribe now! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her.

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The story I told myself can then shape my behavior, and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast deeply well with Debbie Brown, if you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole. This podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown

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What is going on, everybody? It's me, Job Middle Cop, in the three-and-out podcast. I don't know why I'm talking so weird. I guess I'm just excited. I had to slam like a diet mountain do about an hour ago. And I got the caffeine flowing through my body.

Can't wait. I broke down every XFL game. And I'm going to prepare us for this weekend. I'm totally kidding. I would never do that in a million years. But actually, there's some interesting stuff going on. Mel Tucker, I'm going to start with that. Mel Tucker going to Michigan State and the amount of money,

the reflection of what it meant to the Pact 12. There was a really, really good article on Rick's, Smith, the former Houston Texans GM on the athletic by Dan Pompeii, who can just write a hell of an article. It was a really powerful article, but there was something specific in there that stood out to me from a scouting perspective. And I remember when I worked in the league, like Lewis Riddick used to talk about it all the time, how teams just did a poor job of this, and it's just, he was dead on with something.

We'll dive into that. And then, you know, there have been two famous players that. I've seen by like a local guy in their market kind of go viral on my Twitter timeline. One of them was Khalil Mack and the other was Matt Stafford that they were going to get traded. And I think there's something we need to discuss while talking about trays in the NFL. And while we see them a lot more, last year we saw Odell Beckham trade, which I think kind of falls under this category, but we see a lot more at the trade deadline. There are certain trades that are just impossible, factoring in financial situations.

this thing that they call a dead cap, meaning the money that even if you get cut the guy or trade the guy that you still incur as a franchise. So we just need to pump the brakes, because I love a good trade, a potential trade as much as anybody. And I retweeted the Matt Stafford was going to get traded last night at about 10 o'clock while I was laying in bed. But then I realized, like, John, you need to pump the brakes a little bit.

And then, of course, we'll go into my DMs on Instagram. That's how we interact with you guys. At John Middlecoff is my Instagram, Twitter, but my DMs on Instagram are wide open. Ask me anything, and we'll get your question here on the pod. And one more thing, I have, I'm sure a lot of you guys listen to this podcast on Collins' feed.

I also have my own feed. Just three and out, John Middlecoff. You can type it into iTunes and find it. One thing I'd like you to do, if you like the show, seems like a lot of you guys do, get a lot of positive DMs, leave a review on my specific handle.

The three and out John Middilkoff, it has a little microphone and my name. If you're not already subscribed, it goes on both. If you want to, you can just subscribe. These shows go to that feed and to Collins feed. But just go on there and leave a review.

That would be greatly appreciated. But let's start with Mel Tucker, Colorado, and Michigan State. because it's kind of been the big football story of the week, besides the cheating Astros, which is a baseball story, but I'd be down to talk a lot of smack about them. But I've done that enough on Twitter. Mel Tucker, after he was hired, I think in December of 2020,

so he might have been hired right at the end of 2018. He was at Colorado one season, and he just left to Michigan State this week. and I want to start with just a quick exercise. If we started five businesses from scratch, it's going to be hypothetical, in an industry where they could succeed, where there was more than enough quantity of people

to consume whatever product they were doing, and they weren't going to fail. And we just let them all go for 10 years, the five businesses. And we checked back in 10 years, I think it'd be pretty clear, the hierarchy of those five businesses. More than likely, one, probably two of them, would be highly successful.

And this is, for this exercise, let's just assume, high-end business you can make a lot of money. One or two of them would be crushing it. The other two would be somewhere in the middle, they'd be surviving, and one would be a train wreck. One would be a disaster.

It's just the way the world works. You know, it's just a fact. when I was growing up all five major conferences now they were aligned a little differently but the PAC 10 the Big 12 the Big 10 the ACC

and the SEC and I was born in the mid-80s so by the time I started watching football early 90s mid-90s late 90s you just turn on the TV and there'd be good games all over the country and you just on any given year Oregon could compete for the national championship

Texas could, Michigan could, Ohio State could, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, like the same several teams, but it felt relatively equal. You had your two or three top teams in each conference, and they were all kind of competing. That's no longer the case. We have two programs of the Power 5 that are on a completely different level financially than the other three. And really, Oklahoma in the Big 12 and Clemson in the ACC help make those two conferences somewhat outliers because they're both in shambles,

but those two conferences dominate like an SEC or a Big Ten school when it comes to money, when it comes to funds, and when it comes to winning. Then you got the Pact 12, and Dan Wetzel wrote a good article this week. We need to stop using the term Power 5. It's really like Power 2, Oklahoma, Clemson, and then the Pact 12 is basically, it's actually much closer right now to the Mountain West

than it is to the Big Ten. or the SEC. Because when Mel Tucker took the job, and I'm not going to go into some moral, high-horse story about keeping the job, he did make a comment about there's no transfer portal in the real world, which is a stupid comment,

because there literally is. I mean, the great part about America, you literally can quit any job at any moment. You can do whatever you want to do. I can't speak for every country, though I do know a good amount of countries, like ask the NBA about China. You're not just allowed to do whatever you want.

In America, I could just stop podcasting tomorrow and just go work in insurance or go work at a restaurant. I can do whatever I want. So can you. Now, we might not choose to, but we have those options. So he can say whatever he wants. A player can't just leave a program. They can transfer, but they have to sit out a year. We all know that. I'm not going to go into some huge deep dive into that.

I think Jay Billis is of the world have that market corner. But he got his salary doubled and he got his coaching salary, his coaching pool for his assistance doubled, and he also is not from the West Coast, he's from the Midwest, and he had coached at Michigan State. So I get it. You don't love a guy being a one and done from a Power 5, again, allegedly a Power 5,

but I think it shows you. Because all I've heard from the Pac-12 people, Colorado was being fiscally responsible. I don't think you can be fiscally responsible with your football coach. You can be fiscally responsible with the swimming team, with the men's baseball team, but when it comes to football,

there is no expense that the SEC or the Big Ten spares on their football programs. They cut corners with the other programs. But when it comes to football, and at most programs, men's basketball, they pay for every bill, every stinking bill in the athletic program. Without those programs, you couldn't function,

because every other program's in the red. And one issue I think we're having out here on the West Coast, our school presidents are consumed with everything but football. The Olympic sports, academics, and I'm not anti-academics. But you notice this, and there have been studies, and they talk about it all the time on the broadcast, when you win at football, it's such a national televised, and so many people are watching it,

your enrollment goes up. Your competition to get into the programs increase. And I think Cal and UCLA would say, well, yeah, we don't need that to get. And they're right, they don't. Well, the problem is the money that the athletic program is generating because they're not putting in the resources into the football program, which is why these coaches, we've had two coaches in the PAC 12, and I say we because I'm a PAC 12 fan.

But I feel like I'm the only guy on an island beating the drum. Something's got to change because this is not working. Michigan State just came in in the blink of a night, doubled the guy's salary, doubled the guy's assistant pool, And the dude left, a PAC 12 job. It'd be one thing if he was at Colorado State or Fresno State, it'd be like, yeah, I get it. He was at Colorado, which produces pros a couple years ago. They won the Pac-12 South.

They went to the Pac-12. Like, it's a pretty good job. But when they're only paying $2.7 million, and Michigan State's going to pay him $6 million. Like, I get it. But my question is, why can't Colorado pay the $6 million? You went on a coaching search. You believe in this guy. That's the cost of doing business in the industry.

The problem is the PAC 12 isn't generating the money. They don't have the ability to just snap their fingers and write a huge check where the SEC and the Big Ten do it all the time. Because in their conferences, when another school comes after their coaches, whether they're in love with their coach, listen, most coaches aren't Nick Sabin. We understand that. But if you got Dan Mullins and you really like them,

then all of a sudden Penn State calls, you've got to give them a raise. It's a cost of doing business. And I feel like the PAC 12 is operating like a mom and pop shop. We've got to be fiscally responsible. Well, when the mom and pop shop moves in to whatever building they're moving into to run their business, the rent check matters to them,

how much you're going to charge them in rent. When Google or Salesforce or Facebook moves into a building, they cut a year's worth of rent. They don't care. And right now, the SEC and the Big Ten, they don't care. When it comes to football, there is no check they won't cut. And in fairness, like the ACC,

Florida State did it with Willie Taggart, the big 12, they've done it at Texas before. There are programs that will do it. Out here, it's like, oh, we can't afford to go the extra $2 million a year. What is $2 million a year extra for a football coach? If you believed in the guy, which you clearly did because you went on a natural search after having the same coach for six years, and you already paid him. Now, I'm not even some Mel Tucker fan, even though everyone that I text with in the NFL,

people that have been around them, really like them a lot. They think highly of the guy. But my issue is the PAC 12, if we keep going at this rate, because clearly they are not making anywhere near the money of those two conferences. Because they have this television deal that no one can see. Their football programs are not winning enough. They're not going to, you know, they're not going to the college football playoffs. I think they've been there once in the last five years.

They're even in basketball. Like the SEC, do you notice, if you fall college basketball, do you see the SEC? Like Auburn's got Bruce Pearl. They're like a top 10 program. Georgia went out and paid $5 million to Tom Kreme. When you win at football and your conference wins at football, it trickles down. The other thing we love hanging our hat on out on the West Coast,

well, we dominate the Olympic sports, swimming, soccer, you know, lacrosse. Well, what do you think Alabama's going to do in five years when they go, you know what? We wouldn't mind being good at women's soccer and men swimming too. Well, who's got the best coach? Oh, UCLA. Well, how much do they pay them? swimming coach at UCLA, oh, they pay him 110 grand.

How much does it cost you live in UCLA? Oh, a lot. How about we give him $275,000? Because we have an unlimited budget. They're not pinching pennies on the most important asset, and that's football. And it constantly happens in the PAC 12, which is like, oh, we can't afford to pay him that. That's always the answer. Which, if it was soccer or lacrosse or men's baseball, I'd, okay. Because someone, I tweeted, I went on this tweet rant,

someone's like that doesn't sound like a good way to do business if you're not being fiscally responsible yeah to non revenue generating you know entities but if it's your football program which like i said literally pays for every bill and every coach and every pair of shoes and every basketball on campus you better double down on that area and i think the pack 12 right now is somewhat lost in understanding the power and the importance of football now there are elements that in the PAC 12 that don't parallel the SEC. There's a passion level down there that is unique. It's basically the NFL light. And even the Big Ten, I also think a benefit that those two conferences have is their prime programs are in tiny little towns, right? So that

matters. Gainesville, Starkville, Tuscaloosa is a bigger town, Baton Rouge. He's placed in the middle of nowhere. A bend to Penn State. It's like tiny little town. I've never been to Ann Arbor, but it ain't, you know, Detroit, never been to Columbus. That might be a little bit of a bigger town. But think of some of our big programs out west. San Francisco, Palo Alto, Berkeley, Seattle, Los Angeles, you know. It sounds good in theory, but it actually hurts. And because it's so spread out, those are pro-towns.

That's what makes Oregon somewhat unique. And you could argue over the last 20 years, they've been the most balanced when it comes to winning at football and winning at basketball. And they're also lucky Phil Knight went to school there and finances them like it's the SEC or the Big Ten. But I was embarrassed by Mel Tucker leaving in the sense that everyone tried to justify it. Well, they were being fiscally responsible. No, let's just call a spade of spade. They don't have the money. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind.

Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you, exactly what happened. That's where SportsSlice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them.

Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Trip Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it.

And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth. Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust.

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What's up, guys? This is Clever-Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff, like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This line's, You know these kids. This linebacker walks up to me.

He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, rep. My mama want you to wave at her. What? Where's she at?

Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? This Isaiah Thomas. And I'm CJ Toll. Ladano and our podcast Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what.

He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid.

he has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nass would get that thing. That man, hell get to flyin. He running up the court, licking his fingers, why he got the ball. Like, after you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah,

you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. They can't hang with the Big Ten. And that's as big of a red flag as you can get. Because it's only 2020. Well, what's it going to look like in five or ten more years

as the media and the dollars that are flowing in for television rights are growing exponentially? Well, they're only going to keep doubling down on the Big Ten and the SEC because of the efforts and the resources they're pouring into their own programs. So I don't really know what to say besides the Pac-12 might be screwed big picture, doesn't dramatically change soon. Get right to the romance and find the way to wow this valentines with 1-800flowers.com.

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slash tune in. What grows in the forest? Trees? Sure. Know what else grows in the forest? Our imagination, our sense of wonder, and our family bonds grow too. Because when we disconnect from this

and connect with this, we reconnect with each other. The forest is closer than you think. Find a forest near you and start exploring at Discovertheforest.org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the ad. Council.

What grows in the forest? Trees? Sure. Know what else grows in the forest? Our imagination, our sense of wonder, and our family bonds grow too, because when we disconnect from this and connect with this, we reconnect with each other.

The forest is closer than you think. Find a forest near you and start exploring at Discovertheforest.org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the Ad Council. Okay, let's dive into something Rick Smith, the former Houston Texans general manager, said. In an article, if you're subscribed to the athletic, it was written by Dan Pompeii. It was really good.

It was really good. But he said something that really stood out to me. We spent so much time. This is about the scouting process, the college scouting process. We spend so much time, resources, energy, attention on draft evaluation. We have huge dogers on these players where they're from, how they learn, personal lives, social skill set, scores, their history, everything. After the draft, all that information about the player we learned doesn't get integrated into his onboarding. I think that's a mistake.

You can onboard players and utilize all that information to put a plan together that gives them a chance to give them a better chance to be a better man. better member of the organization, and a better football player. There is a holistic approach to player development that we are missing. And onboarding is just like integrating them in, right? Usually when you're hired out of college, there's just a process. A lot of people are hired to companies that they intern with their senior year. In football, while you play football in college and then you're playing football in the pros, where the football is relatively similar,

life dramatically changes. And a huge curve ball in pro sports, unlike the real world, most of us, I mean, hell, my job out of college was $25,000 with the Philadelphia Eagles. Hopefully yours was a lot higher than that. You know, a lot of people, 60, 70, 80, maybe now, 100, depending on where you're working.

You get decent money, super smart guys, maybe you guys are making 150. I don't know. I made nothing. But the reality is, if you're taking a guy in the first couple rounds, of the NFL draft, you were paying him millions of dollars. If I take you in the middle of the first round,

I'm John Middilkoff, Biddle-Linebacker from Alabama, and I get drafted to the Minnesota Vikings. I just get $15 million, guaranteed when I sign it. Well, do you notice why, for a long period of time, the Alabama guys, there was this notion like, Alabama guys just don't transition well in the NFL? Because there is not an hour at Alabama. 365 during the season and during the off season

that you are not accounted for. The only time you may have a little wiggle room is class. And if they're not super on you because you've proven that you can make it to class, they don't do class checks, and you can, if you're smart, you can sleep in and not go. But other than that, when it comes to your homework, when it comes to your tests, when it comes to your meals, when it comes to your sleeping, when it comes to practice,

they're on you 24-7-365. in pro football, even if you're a rookie, once training camp ends and the season starts, you get to live just like Larry Fitzgerald gets to live. Show up on Wednesday, but you get Tuesday off. If you win, you get Monday off by Thursday or Friday. The days are a little shorter. You've got a lot of free time on your hand.

Imagine having a ton of free time and a ton of money. Not an ideal combination. John Baxter, who was the special teams coach when I was at Fresno State used to say the worst thing in life is a young guy in discretionary income. A lot of it. Because you're just going to make poor decisions.

I am just now in my mid-30s and I've, you know, every year over the last 10 years have made more and more money. Kind of learning and how to manage my money. Put some away, pay the bills, what I can spend, what I can't. It takes a long period of time to figure that out.

And I think what, Rick Smith saying, and I remember Louis Riddick used to say this all the time, you spend all this information, like you're getting ready for the prospect that you're going to draft, and then you finally do. Well, most humans are not Peyton Manning or Tom Brady, that they can just operate and do everything without having their handheld. Some guys need help. Where do I live? What do I do with my free time? What do I do with all this money? How do I balance? You know, my mom's going to come stay with me or my grandpa or my cousin. Where do I get a car? I'm just talking basic stuff that can overwhelm people.

And I think a lot of times in the NFL, coaches and it's just focused on what do we got to do to win, what do we got to do to win, what do we got to do to win? Now, I'm not a big believer in holding your hand. But if I'm going to invest $20 million, I have the 10th pick in the draft. Let's just, I'm going to pick a number. I think it's give or take somewhere around there.

I better, just based on the financial resources I'm then giving to this individual. And clearly if I'm going to draft them at 10, what I think of him, I should probably hold his hand for a couple years or attempt to until he proves, you know what? And maybe by the first three or four months, you realize, this guy's got it figured out. He's a high-level guy. A lot of humans, even mature humans, are going to be overwhelmed. And I think a lot of times you just depend, well, the vets will take care of them. And I'm not saying the vets don't take care of them, but there is just an element. And this is the difference between,

I think pro and definitely college, but even college with the money coaches are making, they approach it now more like pro football. There used to be a big connection with your position coach, and there still is in certain instances, where you're pretty close to that guy, and he can help you out. He can be somewhat of a mentor.

And I think that often gets lost in the NFL. And definitely from the scouting side, once the draft ends, all the scouts just kind of move on. You just start with the next crop. Instead, well, if I was the area scout and I knew the guy that we drafted in the third round, again, if you draft a guy in the third round, you're still probably giving him a signing bonus like $400,000, that's still a lot of money.

You clearly liked him because you invested a top, I don't know, 80 pick in the guy, and this guy might have a learning disability, whatever. I mean, any piece of information that you accumulated that you knew before the draft, and then it kind of just gets forgotten. And the dudes just expected like, why can't this guy cover the slot? Well, I don't know. he's overwhelmed in life right now. There's a lot going on.

It can be really overwhelming. And you know me, if you listen to this podcast, I'm not a big excuse guy. But I do think there are specific things that you learn about a guy when you're scouting from the program. Like, hey, this guy, like coaches tell you this. You know, this guy's not great at learning on the board. He's better at learning on the field.

And then he's not good in the meeting room. But I'm telling you, when the game starts, he's able to take all the information. And then by the middle of training camp You're getting an email from your general manager Like why can't this guy figure out what to do in meetings? Because we knew going into it And I think Rick Smith is dead on

I think the programs that do it right The information And I'm talking the specific information About the human being Not the football Because the football always gets figured out Because that's what you're putting all your emphasis on I'm talking about the person

And I'm talking about learning disabilities I'm just talking about things not even learning disabilities. Just this guy, I'm trying to even think of an example, but people need help. And people, there's a ton of pressure that comes along with rookie players that not everyone is equipped to handle it. Even guys that end up doing it, it can be really, really difficult.

And I would imagine programs like New England, clearly New England. I think Seattle does a good job of it. I think the 49ers now with Kyle Shanahan are doing it. All the winning teams, the Eagles, the Chiefs. When you look at losing teams and you see these players that are just like fighting for themselves young guys, it's like, come on, this has to be a group effort here. And all the information and all the work you do in the scouting process

just needs to start getting factored in more. I mean, these teams are wasting all the resources that they spend for the 12 months or maybe, let's say, the nine months you use getting ready for this player and then ultimately picking them, and then you just end up disregarding it by the time the guy gets in your building. It just doesn't make any sense. Okay, like you guys, I'm not any different. I'm a sucker for a good trade rumor.

It's probably why I got into the business. It's why I wanted to work in the NFL. I love transactions. Love drafts. Love draft day trades. Love free agency. Love trades. at all. I mean, that's why we all

it's the cool part about sports. You know, transactions, adding players to your team. This is the time of year with a free agency right around the corner where we're reading a lot about this guy might be released. We've talked about cap cuts.

The guy that I saw the other day since the early week podcast was Devante Freeman. I immediately text a couple of my buddies in the league and they go, yeah, he's a shell of himself. He's slower and but you're going to see a ton of names like that. But you're also going to see some, you know, pretty famous guys.

Like last year, is Odell Beckham going to get traded? A couple years ago, Khalil Mack got traded. Now that was, you know, in training camp. But still, we've seen some pretty big trades the last couple years. So I do take when I see a headline that says, Matt Stafford is on the block. I retweet immediately because I'm like, whoa. I don't even think about it.

I'm like, that's sweet. and then I realize, God, you got to take a deep breath, John. What I do now is I Google and I go to Spot Track. It's where you can look at a player's contract. In basketball, when I give Steph Curry five years $200 million, I do stagger the money a little bit, like year to year. He makes a little more every year. But basically it's 35, 38, 37, 41, 42, whatever,

to add up to 200 million. Clay Thompson's same deal and it's all, it's just spread out throughout the deal. There is no signing bonus. Just his first year he makes $35 million. By the second year he's made $65 million and it just keeps adding up. It's not the way it works.

In baseball, same thing. I think they have changed baseball a little bit like some guys do the escrow account where they get money later on. That's kind of been a new thing. But still, for the most part, your money is your money. In football, that's not the case, right? We see all the time like,

breaking news, this is going to happen. when free agency starts. Trying to think of a player. Let's go Amari Cooper. Amari Cooper has signed a five-year $100 million deal. $20 million a season. We're like, damn!

Amari got paid! The Colts, the Cowboys! That's what we all... They're like, damn! Give him his bag! And then it comes out, well, actually, he did sign a $500 million deal on paper,

but there's only 47.7.7. million of it guaranteed. She's like, oh, so he basically signed a two and a half year, $47 million deal. Because the way football works is the true guaranteed money you make. Like Matt Stafford's total guarantees were $92 million. So you take that $92 million and you prorate it at, I don't know, the exact formula over the life of the deal. and it's usually more up front, the true guarantee,

like his true guarantee at signing was like $60 million. So in his first year of that deal, his dead cap, if they were to cut him, would have been $75 million. It's a lot of money. So you're not going to cut a guy when it would cost $75 million on your cap. But in 2020,

as of right now, Matt Stafford's dead cap meant if they cut him or traded him, meaning the bonus money that has got amortized over the deal, would be $32 million. Well, the salary cap is $200 million. So think about it, $30 million of $200, it'd be 15%.

It'd be like 16% of the salary cap. You wouldn't trade a guy to not play on your team to be 16% of your salary cap to play for someone else. It doesn't make any sense. It's actually cheaper to keep him. His cap hit, so if he's on the team, there's no such thing as dead cap, because he's on your team.

but his actual cap hit if he's on the team is $21 million. So you actually save over basically $11 million, but it's keeping them around. And anytime that you see a big, big name like this, just go to the internet. Google his contract. I use SpotTrack, S-P-O-T-R-A-C.com, and you can just look at the numbers.

Now, it's why Derek Carr keeps coming up because they can get out of Derek Carr for like $4 million. Once you get under, you know, 6.3.000, $6, $7 million, when the salary cap's $200 million, it's nothing. Once you get under $5 million of dead cap, think about it, the salary cap's $200 million, so you're talking like 2.5%. You can stomach that.

But when you're talking to $32 million, and I know on Thursday Matt Stafford, the GM of the Lions came out and was adamant. Like, it wasn't one of those, like, PR stunts. It was like, this is insane. And you know what? Last night, a blown call changed the game. This morning, the internet lost its mind.

Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real.

From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations. with so many incredible guests.

I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch.

Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross. Because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person.

Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? My quarterback on office blue 42. Hey, rec, my mama want you to wave at her.

What? Where's she at? Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam, Ms. Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano and our podcast Point Game. is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs

without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs.

I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reed. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nass would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying.

He run up the court, licking his fingers, why he got the ball. Like, you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah. You figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I believe them because it makes no sense. That was part of the reason the New York Giants last year got nailed and kind of took a lot of shit

because I'm typing in Odell to the website right now because last year I think Odell's dead cap money was I got them right here. So Odell's dead cap money was $19 million last year. Excuse me. Yeah, $19 million that was on the Cleveland Browns. or the New York Giant salary cap. Actually, it might have been higher than that. This might not be right,

because I remember reading it was higher than that. Think about that. They paid a guy that was good to just not be on their team. It really didn't make any sense. If you're going to sign a human to a big deal, and in football, I'd say, anything over $30 million guaranteed is pretty big, because once you get to $30,

you're immediately talking about two years. You're talking the first and second years. You can't trade them or cut them. without taking a huge penalty on your own cap. So this year, when the free agency comes around, any guys getting 30 plus, and obviously the good players get 40, 50, 60, the quarterbacks get now 100, 120, 110,

you're stuck with those guys for a while. And the good thing about the NFL, you really only do deals with four or five of those guys a team, right? In basketball, every guy's on a guaranteed deal. Same with baseball. But in baseball, like that Mookie Betts trade that just happened, you can do weird things, right? The Boston Red Sox ate half the contract

and traded David Price. In football, I can't eat my dead cap. The dead cap's the dead cap. I can eat maybe some of the cap hit and the money, but I can't eat the dead cap. That number is set. So whenever you see these names get thrown around, it's not going to stop.

It's going to continue, because that's just the world we live in now on social media. Just do a double checking, because I know I need to because I was like, oh, Matt Stafford is not going to. anywhere. Get right to the romance and find the way to wow this valentines with 1-800flowers.com from classic roses and bouquets to decadent chocolate-covered berries, gourmet treats, and more. Surprise your valentine with 1-800flowers.com. Right now,

get the 18-stem enchanted rose medley for 3999 or upgrade to 24 red roses for $10 more. Go to 1-800flowers.com slash tune in. That's 1-800-flowers.com slash tune in. And we're live here outside the Perez family home just waiting for the... And there they go. Almost on time this morning. Mom is coming out the front door strong with a double-armed kid carry. Looks like dad has the bags.

Daughter is bringing up the rear. Oh, but the diaper bag wasn't closed. Dipers and toys are everywhere. Ooh, but mom has just nailed the perfect car seat buckle for the toddler. And now the eldest daughter who looks to be about... nine or ten has secured herself in the booster seat. Dad zips the bag closed and they're off.

Ah, but looks like mom doesn't realize her coffee cup is still on the roof of the car and there it goes! Oh, that's a shame. That mug was a fan favorite. Don't sweat the small stuff. Just nail the big stuff. Like making sure your kids are buckled correctly in the right seat for their age and size. Learn more at nhtsa.gov slash the right seat. Visit nhtsa.gov

slash the right seat. you by Nidza and the Ad Council. If I could be you. And you could be me? For just one hour. If you could find a way... To get inside. Each other's mind.

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Walk a mile in my shoes. Okay, let's slide into some DMs. Favorite NFL pod? Me too. Please don't change the thing. I won't. I'm a Chiefs diehard and season ticket holder. This past month is easily my favorite sports moment stretching my life.

I have to say I don't blame you. I know you say you're out of the fan business, but what are your favorite game you've seen to or Ben favorite sports moment in your life? Yeah, I mean, I'm still a fan. I got a lot of joy after watching Coach Reed win. I got a lot of joy after watching the 49ers win the NFC championship game.

Say my favorite pure moment. Pretty special in 94 as a 10-year-old kid when the Niners won the Super Bowl. Steve Young, get the monkey off my back. 2010, when the San Francisco Giants won the World Series, that was freaking awesome. Especially because I was living in Philly, and the Giants played the Phillies in the NLCS,

and Cody Ross took Roy Halliday, who was unhittable. literally I don't think he gave up a hit in his first series he threw a no hitter and Cody Ross had two home runs off him in that series that was badass uh yeah those would probably be the the top i mean i was a big niners giants fan growing up basketball i kind of bounced around i was always a big UCLA basketball fan they haven't been good in a while but you know i've always kind of been a horror as a fan I just root for specific players that I like and kind of latch.

I've always been like that, specific coaches that I like. But growing up, I mean, the Niners and the San Francisco Giants were massive. I mean, they were my life. And then as I got in football, I mean, it's just not the same. It's just not. I mean, when you get to know these people, it just changes, you know. It's hard to explain. Some people, you know, when I try to tell them, I don't think they quite get it.

obviously when I got into this just sports in general when I started doing it stuff in college it was my life my passion but it's just it's rare that you just are able to keep it like I still get a lot of joy

out of watching games my rooting interest now I just gamble a lot but yeah the 99th I mean the 94 are so young there were some 49er moments when I was in high school the Terrell Owens the game

where you had the game winning catch against the Packers That would have been like 99. There were some playoff games in the early 2000s. But then by the time, like, I got to Fresno State probably in the late 2000s, it was just, I thought about it a little differently. So baseball was probably one, baseball really is. Like, I'm still a big Giants fan.

That's the one team that I'm still, I don't know, I know a couple people in the sport, but I, it's just still kind of pure to me from a fan standpoint. And that's why I'm so pissed off right now. I got to watch Gabe Kapler. I refuse. And the Dodgers are really good. Now I'll say this.

Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight reads.

From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsClyce brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsClyce on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience

in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough

because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust.

I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose. On my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free, our heart radio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliver Show, I'm bringing you.

conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Quarterback on office blue 42. Hey, rep, my mama want you to wave at her.

What? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clippers show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm CJ Toledano and our podcast Point Game is about Defying the Odds. Like LeBron heading

into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective

on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash would get that thing.

That man, hell get the flying. He running the court, licking his fingers why he got the ball. Like, you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I still hate some teams that I hated growing up. I hate the Lakers. Though I'm not a LeBron hater, but I hate the Lakers.

I root for them to lose. I hate the Houston Rockets, root for them to lose. I don't really hate the Dodgers. Is there a college team I hate? I'm not a big Ohio State guy, but I know a couple people that went to Ohio State and I like them. So it's like, what am I hating just because they're sweet? but I can understand. I mean, when your number one team wins a championship,

and for the Chiefs, I don't know how old you are, but if you're 30 or 40, I mean, that's a long time. You know, hell, it was a long time just to get to the championship game. So that's a cool moment. You know, you never forget that. I'm going to skip that question. Is there a scenario that you can see the Colts signing a quarterback in free agency and trading Jacoby Brissette back to the Patriots?

Well, the scenario would be Tom leaving, them landing Philip Rivers, and the Patriots needing a quarterback. So right there. Tom leaves, Rivers goes to the indie, Jacoby goes back to the New England. There's your scenario. I have a hard time seeing them trading him, though, because his cap number, his dead cap's pretty big. I think in a perfect world, they sign Philip Rivers,

and they keep Jacobi as the backup. Maybe I'm crazy, maybe I'm wrong, and maybe it'll play out a different way, but that's kind of the way I envision it. International listener here, all the way from Portsmouth, UK. Portsmouth, UK. Just wondered your take on a possible franchise move to London.

Should we get excited by the Jags playing back-to-back games here this year as a step toward them moving? If not the Jags, which other team could be in the frame for a move? I think it is the Jags, and I think it's borderline inevitable. Once you go back-to-back games, my guess, uneducated. I don't know anyone in the league office.

I follow Shod Khan's kid on Twitter. He follows me, but I've DMed him a couple times. He never DMs me back, so it's not like we're friends. I would, again, completely, no inside of information. I'd go over under five years, and I'd put it right about at five years. The Jaguars are in London. The Jacksonville markets too small. clearly they already have their kind of toes over there.

They've got to be making money. I think the league ultimately wants to go international. That's the team. You're not going to move Tampa. The glazers have too much cash. You're not going to move the Atlanta Falcons. It'd have to be a team on the eastern seaboard. I guess Buffalo, maybe, but it seems like things are going pretty well there.

New England, no, giants, no, Jets no, Phillies, no. Redskins, no. So it's just, it's got to be the Jags. Am I missing a team in Florida? The Dolphins, no. So it's the jags are bust. I don't even think there's another option. Hey John, love the show.

Keep up the awesome content. Appreciate it. My question is, do you think the Bronco should stay with Drew Locke, or do you think they will try to trade up for one of the top quarterbacks in the draft? They just draft Drew Locke in the second round, and he looked pretty good to end the season.

I think one million percent you roll with Drew Locke, and you see what he's got this year. He's a starting quarterback. Your defense should be good. You got, what's his name? Bradley Chub coming back with Vaughn. I would imagine the defense is even better Another year under Fangio

You have Pat Schumer I think you're equipped to be a really good team Really good strong Let me roll that back I think you equipped to be a good team You went 7 and 9 this year after a terrible start What was it? 1 in 5 1 and 6

Why can't you be 9 and 7 Compete for a wild card 9 and 7 made the wild card this year 10 and 6 Division is not very good Who's going to charge his quarterback If Brady doesn't come Might be Herbert

so they might not be good. I mean, they have a lot of talent. Chiefs are good. The Raiders, who knows? Why couldn't you finish second in that division and go 9 and 7 make the playoffs? Look through your children's eyes to see the true magic of a forest.

It's a storybook world for them. You look and see a tree. They see the wrinkled face of a wizard with arms outstretched to the sky. They see treasure and pebbles. They see a windy path that could lead to adventure. And they see you. They're fearless.

guide through this fascinating world. Find a forest near you and start exploring at Discovertheforest.org, brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the ad council. Look through your children's eyes to see the true magic of a forest. It's a storybook world for them. You look and see a tree. They see the wrinkled face of a wizard with arms outstretched to the sky.

They see treasure and pebbles. They see a windy path that could lead to adventure. And they see you. Their fearless guide is this fascinating world. Find a forest near you and start exploring at Discovertheforest.org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the Ad Council. Adoption of teens from foster care is a topic not enough people know about and we're here to change that. I'm April Dinwiddie host of the new podcast, Navigating Adoption, presented by Adopt U.S. Kids.

Each episode brings you compelling real-life adoption stories told by the families that live them with commentary from experts. Visit Adoptuskids.org slash podcast or subscribe to navigating adoption presented by Adopt U.S. Kids. Brought to you by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services Administration for Children and Families and the Ad Council. Long question here. Love the show. Long question incoming. I see. Feel free to stop reading once you get to the gist of what I'm asking. I have always been curious about how scouts, GMs, and front offices evaluate the relative value of draft picks. How many third round picks is a first round picks is a first-round picks?

first round pick worth. If you could hypothetically give up a mid-first round pick to get two second rounders and two third rounders, wouldn't that be more value for your team? Since instead of getting one guy of one of your top 20 players, you are getting four guys who you have in the 550 to 100 players. I get what you're saying. There is a thing that has been around since Jimmy Johnson that has been updated in 2020. It's been updated every year, but now most teams have an updated chart.

They put a number value on every pick. So let's just start hypothetically. The number one overall pick is worth 10,000 points. And then it starts working this way down until the next pick's worth, you know, 9,700. And then, you know, 9,500. And then eventually starts dropping off big. It goes from like, once you get from pick like 12 to 15, you go, you know, it drops off dramatically.

So you have to add up, if I'm getting two second round picks, do they add up to the value? And that's kind of how most teams operate. Now, there is a tax. If you want my one or two overall pick, you've got to overpay for it, right? Because I know you want a quarterback. To me, if you want the 10th pick to get a tackle and you have a late first rounder and a mid-second rounder and it's give or take the value and I like the value, I'll do it. But if I have the number one overall pick and you want to,

and you have the eighth pick and you can meet the value, I'll give you the eighth pick, I'll give you my second round pick, and I'll give you next year's first round pick. Well, let's say I have the number one overall pick, and I like Joe Burrow, but I don't need a quarterback,

but I have multiple teams bidding for it. Even if the offer that you first gave me two ones and a two, what if I go, you know what, I'm going to need more because I'll just trade them to someone else. I have a better offer on the table. Or hell, I'll just stay here and take Chase Young.

you it's real estate it's it's a ocean front property there's only so much real estate there and there's only so many quarterbacks in every draft and especially when I know that you like a quarterback so I think there's a leverage game when you when you factor in quarterbacks when you factor in just a corner or a wide receiver you just have to equal the number assuming that team wants to trade and I think a lot of the good teams that don't need quarterbacks are always open to trading for, you know, if I have the 13th pick and you'll offer me two-twos and next year's one, you know, a smart team will do that, right? Again, if the value is good and I have a bunch of highly rated guys in the top 55 of the draft. So I think it's also determined

on what players are in a given draft. Like every draft is not the same. This draft, from just the naked eye, I watch an unhealthy amount of college football, and from my friends in the NFL, is a really good draft. Feels like there's going to be a really talented, like, top 75. So the difference between in this draft, pick 30 and pick 48, might not be that dramatic for a lot of teams. They go, yeah, we'll get a starter at either spot. So we might as well trade back and get extra picks.

But if the draft was shitty and you're like, well, you know, this is not a great top 50s. players. There's like 17 good players, then there's a dramatic drop off and most of the guys are just guys. Then you probably wouldn't be as likely to do that. So I think it's, I think it's very dependent on the crop of guys on an individual year. Like the number one pick is not always the same. There's a sweet quarterback in a draft. It changes it. If there's not, it doesn't. Like last year having a top two pick was a big deal. It's Kyler Murray and Nick Bosa. Then it was like, then who do you take? You know, Quinn and Williams, one year wonder, then Cleveland Farrell, then I like

Devin White, but it was just some unknown. And last year was a good draft. But it felt like Kyler Murray was a star and he won offensive rookie the year, which we could argue, but he's clearly pretty good. And Nick Bosa, listen, I was wrong. I was just too negative. But it's clear. I mean, he's a superstar.

So that was the draft. I mean, the one year that Solomon Thomas went third, it was Miles Garrett went one, who's by far the best player in the draft. Then it went Mitch Trubisky, Solomon Thomas. So on that given year, it was like, You know, some years it's like Alden Smith and JJ Watt are going 10, 11 and O'Dell Beckham. And, you know, you just, every draft is kind of unique.

And that's the key to knowing the draft value is factoring in the chart, but with the players and how you value them kind of on a year-to-year basis. That's why it gets pretty complicated. It's also why having experience in drafts and knowing the league and knowing the next crop of guys coming out is really important. You can't live in the moment, even though sometimes on drafts, night, it's hard not to live in the moment. You spent all this time, seen it firsthand. You work all spring. You then work summer evaluating the guy's junior tape or sophomore tape. Then you work all fall

evaluating the actual tape. Then you go through the combine and the pro days and the workouts. And then all of a sudden you get there and it's hard to go, well, let's just push this back another year. You're like, hell, I've been, I've been cooking all night. I want to eat. I mean, you're just, you're ready to sit down for dinner. And sometimes it's hard to put the fork down, but the smart teams have the discipline. You can argue smart people in life have discipline. That's why I'm going to go eat some ice cream now that I'm done recording. Appreciate everyone listening.

See you guys next week. Adios. Have a great freaking weekend. And yeah, enjoy wherever you are. It might be cold. It might be sunny. Who knows? But enjoy the weekend.

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That's meandies.com slash V-Day 25. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where SportsSlice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline.

And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to SportsSlic on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slices Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite.

Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, guys, this is Clever Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this kid. This linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her.

What? Come on out. Quarterback on office blue 42. Hey, ref, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Where's she at? Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Clipper Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

The story I've told myself can then shape my behavior, and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast deeply well with Debbie Brown. If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole, this podcast is for you. to hear more. Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.