The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 3 and Out - MNF Recap, Zack Wilson, Saints need to win the division

Episode Date: October 31, 2023

John recaps the Monday Night Football game and the Lions convincing win over the Raiders. He also dives into the transition as quarterback learning to live and play in a completely new climate, how even though Aaron Rodgers is likely the future for the Jets, they can still win with Zack Wilson, who the MVP favorite should be, and how the Saints should be able to walk away with the division but if they don't the organization could look extremely different next season. Lastly, John answers your questions in this episode's mailbag segment. Follow John on Twitter, Instagram and YouTube for the latest. Check out Gametime - the fastest growing ticketing app in the US, and the official ticketing app of 3 & Out and GoLow -  for tickets to all of your favorite NFL, NBA, NHL, NCAA teams. Concert and comedy show tickets, too. Go to Gametime now to create an account, download the app and use code JOHN for $20 off your first purchase. #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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What is going on, everybody, John Middlecock, Three and Out podcast? The Detroit Lions are not just six and two in cruising to a division championship, but they look awesome. They have been fun. That was, if you're a Detroit Lions fan right now, smile. You should be excited. It's cool. Dan Campbell's cool.

We will dive into the Lions. We'll dive into Dan Campbell. McDaniels and the Raiders, absolute disaster, have some thoughts there as well. Jimmy Garoppolo, oh my God, he looks awful. Cousins, terrors his Achilles. Not great. Trade deadline. Zach Wilson barely hangs on and talk a lot of football on this podcast.

that's what we do. So if you listen on Colin's feed, make sure you subscribe to the 3 and Out feed. If you want to get on the show, fire in my mailbag. It's just my Instagram. DM's wide open. At John Middlecoff is the Instagram.

Just DM me, and I will attempt to read it here on the show. And we have a lot of podcasts. We've got podcasts coming out all week. Just went on with Colin. Yesterday, that podcast is up. This podcast will react to the trade deadline. We'll just keep rocking and rolling.

So let's buckle up. Let's go. Let's enjoy ourselves some football. Can I tell you about my friends, my partners, and a company I've used all year long. I've been thinking about going to a World Series game, either tomorrow or Wednesday, and if I did, do you know how I'd do it?

I'd go to my GameTime app. I already have it downloaded, but if you don't, download the GameTime app. Sign up for a pair of tickets. Basketball, football, hockey, you name it, any sporting event, college or pro. Comedy shows, concerts. and use the promo code

just happens to be my name J-O-H-N, J-O-H-N, they're the official ticketing app of this podcast, and get $20 off your first pair of tickets. A lot of you guys have used it. Thank you very much. Keep hammering that promo code. Anyone you know wants to go to a game,

just tell them about game time. promo code John, save you 20 bucks, go enjoy a night out, go watch some sports, go listen to some tunes, and have yourself a time. Again, the app store, download game time. You can put it on your iPad as well.

And promo code John, when you check out for your first pair of tickets, go have a good night, do it on me. I don't even need a thank you. Just go enjoy yourself. Let's get to Monday night football. And there are a lot of angles. This game fired me up. I know some of you, if you're not a Lions fan, not a Raider fan, even if you are a football lover, you might go, oh, Raiders, lions. That was sweet.

And I think one big picture topic, I do think it's cool in the NFL, how teams can suck for a long period of time. and if you get the right coach, you get the right GM, you draft the right players, you can just become a winner. I don't mean you become what Andy and Mahomes are doing or Belichick and Brady, but you can just go to the playoffs a lot. That's not the case in other pro sports. I'm watching the World Series tonight. The diving backs, while they had an incredible playoff run, they won 84 games.

They've consistently not been very good, right? This is not the same teams in baseball are good year in, year out. The playoffs, like in hockey, just tend to be ran. In basketball, it's the same teams over and over and over. Buck Celtics, Warriors, LeBron, and now Yokic. Like, if you don't have one of those guys, good luck, maybe the heat here and there, but they're actually not going to win the championship. Fun to watch, whatever, same teams over and over.

It's not the case with football. The Jacksonville Jags, who have been a consistent joke most of my life, get a franchise quarterback, get a Super Bowl winning coach, they're going to be in the playoffs last year, this year, and for several years moving forward. The Detroit Lions, I got news for you. This is not going to be a one-hit wonder season. Like, this team is built to last. Look at all their players.

They don't have a bunch of veteran guys on big contracts. These are all young guys that they just drafted, and it's fun to watch. And the other thing is, and I thought Joe and Troy kind of hit it on the head. For the most part, I mean, the Detroit Lions in my life have been not even underachieving. They've just been terrible, and they're just known for the Thanksgiving game, which it feels like they usually lose. And now to have a game on Monday night, which a lot of teams,

over a long period of time, will get some Monday night football games. But it's one thing to be a shitty team, get a home Monday night game, and that's kind of your Super Bowl. And it's another thing to be a team that looks like you're headed toward 12 wins. Get a Monday night football game

and your fan base. Like, there was a swag in that building tonight. And it's just, it's enjoyable as a fan to see a franchise resurrected. And let's face it, it's resurrected because, I mean, one guy leading the charge. And I think in football, just like in life, perception can become reality. I say it all the time. Whether it's a friend group, whether it's someone in your industry, hearsay and gossip,

you're like, hey, I've heard about this guy. How about this guy? Total debag. Or I've heard about this guy, incredible. This guy's awesome at his job. And then you meet him or work with him. You're like, eh, I don't quite see it. or the opposite.

All you've heard is bad things. Then you meet the guy. You're like, ah, I kind of like the guy. Right. And let's face it, the perception on the two coaches tonight, one guy, major football meathead. Dan Campbell, just meathead. Feels like, doesn't even watch film, just lifts,

powers down some protein shakes, heads out to practice, yells a little bit. And that's Dan Campbell. Josh McDaniels, meanwhile, cerebral, Ben with Belichick, great schemer, X's and O. Do you know what it turns out? Josh McDaniels is just a chubby version of Brandon Staley.

That guy is terrible. And do you know what it turns out that guy that we all thought was a major meathead? Damn good coach. Look at last year the second half of the season up until tonight. All the Lions are doing currently is winning games. And let's face it, you remove that Ravens game. The way they win is a way that most of us appreciate football. They kick your ass.

They shove the ball down your throat defensively. That front seven is bringing it. Aiden Hutchinson's become a stud. And Dan Campbell and his coaching staff full of former NFL players look like they could beat up the entire league. I'm not saying this team's going to win the Super Bowl. Hell, it's going to be difficult for them to win a playoff game. It's hard.

This is not a franchise that has had a lot of success in January. Though, depending on how the seating breaks, clearly they're going to have a home playoff game because they're going to win their division, They should win a playoff game for the first time, I don't know, in my lifetime, 38 years old, 39 actually. And I got to give a lot of credit to Dan Campbell. You watch them in these interviews.

There's clearly more than just this protein shake smashing, you know, curl and bench press lifting former player. Like Dan Campbell's good. And Josh McDaniels, as several of you have DM me over the years, like he should pay Brady royalties. because you take that guy away from Belichick and you give him your own team, you would send the limo to the hotel to his team staying at to make sure he's on the sideline

when the game kicks off. He is awful. I mean, speaking of the Raiders, Mark Davis has a major problem on his hands. I don't know if all of you know, but Mark Davis is the owner of the Las Vegas Aces. He has turned them in to the Jerry Bus Lakers. They've won back-to-back championships.

he's brought greatness to Vegas in terms of WNBA. But in terms of his football team, they are a laughing stock. They are god-awful. They are hard to watch. And as my girlfriend mentioned today, we went on a little bike ride

at about 430 Pacific Standard time, about 30 minutes before the game. She's like, who's playing tonight? Unlike the Raiders and the Lions. She's like, doesn't it feel like the Raiders are on Monday night football a lot? And obviously they've played now a couple times, the Packers earlier this season.

the problem with not being a good team, when you play on prime time, everyone gets to see you. And I think, and I say this all the time, paying coaches to leave when you know it's a coach who's not good enough. Like, if you're the Lions, you give that guy an extension. But you want him in the building well before he, who knows? He probably never will.

Odds, Dan Campbell's not going to win a Super Bowl. But if he can just make you consistently in the mix, win your division, he is worth a ton to you. where Josh McDaniels is actually a major liability. And if you got to pay him and his staff, whatever the money might be, $20, $30 million, the amount of money these teams now get from the league and their media deal, it's well worth it. Go get yourself a real coach.

Jim Harbaugh's career started with the Raiders. Jim Harbaugh clearly in Michigan, you know, the contract was laid out there. Then the cheating allegations. Now the contract has been rescinded. Harbaugh claims that's BS. Harbaugh flirted a year and a half ago with Minnesota. We all know Harbaugh's coming back. He has an affinity for football history.

He loved Al Davis. He likes Mark Davis. To me, the Raiders, that feels like an easy one. Who knows? He might have options. But if I'm Mark Davis, like, I'm already starting to make those connections. This Josh McDaniels thing is clearly not working. And one thing we've seen with the Patriot guys,

you kind of know right away. Like we saw Patricia with the Lions, you're like, oh, that's not going to work. You saw Joe Judge with the Giants, like, that ain't working. You see Josh McDaniels with the Raiders, like, it doesn't have a chance. He put all of his chips on Jimmy Garoppel. Think about this. It wasn't that long ago.

For whatever reason, last year was Christian McCaffrey. Several years ago, it was Matt Stafford. The 49ers and the Rams both wanted the same guy. They were bidding against each other. The Rams offered two ones in Jared Gough. The Niners offered two ones and Jimmy Garoplo. And Brad Holmes, who has done a fantastic, job. We'll get into him in a second.

Obviously had worked for the Rams, like Jared Gough, Dan Campbell like Jared Gough. They made the right move. Because if they had done the opposite trade, they would not be in the same position. Jimmy Garofalo's just not a very good player. And he really hasn't been now for a while. But that's who Josh McDaniels hitched his wagon to. So when you fail, and it'd be one thing, it's like, hey, he didn't really have any other options. He gave the guy $7 million.

He gave the guy $30-plus million. in guaranteed money. That's more than a bridge quarterback. That's a guy that you think he can win you games. And he cannot. He is not very good. As we talked about right before we fired up record tonight, is he the worst starting quarterback in the NFL?

I don't know about that. But I would say based on this season when you watch and play, he's a bottom five or six guy. And that's on Josh McDaniels. And look at the other team from a personnel standpoint. I'll never forget during draft. This draft period. The media and the draft gurus always have a lot of opinions.

And I understand. It's a passionate time. You do a lot of work. You watch a lot of players, whether you're a scout or whether you're a draft guru. If you're going to spend the time to watch players and you like certain guys and you don't like other guys, I totally get it. Be excited about the guys you like and be critical of the teams that take the guys you don't. That's the fun part about the draft.

But one thing I'll never understand, and this is why me and like the analytical elite don't always see eye to eye. I'm never married to one thing. Like, I'm all for going for it. I'm all for going for two sometimes. But I'm also down with kicking a field goal every once a while. Like, I'm all for pulling my starter because he's got 80 pitches. But I'm all for when the guy's got five scoreless innings

and it's the third, is game three of a playoff series, letting that fucking guy keep rolling. I come from the old school Bruce Bochy school of baseball. Right? And the analytical elites, get that guy out of the game. It's like, well, are we? sure, that guy might be your best pitcher. And I've never married to anything.

I'm in agreement that taking running backs in the first round is not great business. But there are exceptions. Like, am I taking Sequin Barclay number two overall? No, I think that's stupid. Do I like taking Bejan Robinson at 8 when I already got good running backs? Even though he's probably behind Jalen Carter, the second best player in the draft. I don't like doing that. Like, I'm in agreement.

But when the draft is historically terrible, most teams have. maybe 12, 13 first round grades on players, to go from 6 to 12 and get a guy that you had graded in a down draft as a top 10 player and also add your starting tight end who is really good. I know he had a drop tonight,

but really good player. There is no chance that I would not take Bejan Robinson over the combination of Gibbs and Leporta. Every team in the league would agree with me. The other thing is Gibbs is really good. like really really good so if you're going to take a running back in the first round you get something else with it part of the problem when you take be jean robinson at number eight that's all you get

the lions didn't just take a running back in the first round they added a high second round pick which netted them a tight end who if he becomes a pro bowler which i would say early indications that he has that ability is going to be one of the best values in the NFL why because tight ends don't cost that much money so if he is your franchisee tight end, you get a cheap player for the next eight years relative to other positions in the NFL. And even if Gibbs is only a one contract guy, if he shows flashes like he did the night, you're fucking cooking with gas. So I got my franchise tight end and I got my starting running back. I know they're starting running back's injured, but a guy that will become your starting running

back for the next several years who doesn't cost that much. So this notion that you can never do something is always so stupid to me. Well, what's the context of what we're doing? Right? Well, yeah, if my pitcher is sick and his fastball is usually 95 and he's throwing 92, get the guy out of the game. But if he's got one hit through six, just because we had the preconceived notion coming into the game, well, he can only go five innings a night. That feels stupid to me. And I think sometimes, I would tend to agree, 95% of the time take another player. But in a draft that was God-awful, and when you made a personnel move that netted you more assets

I think that was one of the better moves of this last draft and I think it's a big reason why as I talked about earlier it's not just about this season with the Lions it's about the next several and this team is built well they're run well

they're tough they're physical the other thing they're really going to benefit from is their division because think about it the Packers you guys are starting to figure out what it's like being a normal NFL fan. You usually don't have Brett Farver, Aaron Rogers as your quarterback. A lot of teams,

hell, your own division can relate. Usually you get Jordan Love. You're in trouble, right? You know you have to get another quarterback, which is a good place to be, but how do you find that guy? Do you draft high enough? Well, if you keep losing, maybe. Was the guy you draft any good? You never know. I would have thought Kirk Cousins, who will get into a second, might have been an option. Now, he's not available. The Bears are in complete shambles. And who knows?

Are we sure that Caleb Williams wouldn't say, yeah, I'm not playing there. What would indicate to you, based on what the Bears have shown us, over the last 20, 30 years, that Caleb Williams and his father would be like, yeah, that's where I want to go. Beside the city, which is cool, the brand is powerful.

But in terms of the actual football team, what quarterback goes, that's where I want to be, the Chicago Bears? Right? And now Minnesota, who's best player, I guess besides Justice Jefferson, but one of the better quarterbacks in the NFL, who was also going to be a free agent,

now as a torn Achilles. So if I'm the Lions, not only is it in the short term, like, we're going to make the playoffs, we're going to have a home playoff game. It's going to be freaking awesome. But we're going to be good for a while, and this division is starting to feel a little crappy,

and we can take advantage of it. Speaking of something that you can't take advantage of, because I thought Kirk Cousins was, statistically was having his best season ever. He was on pace for about 38 touchdowns and 11 picks, which he has had seasons where he's thrown less interceptions, but he's never had a 38 touchdown season. And he was playing at a really, really high level.

Like he was a lock. When I use the word pro bowl, a lot of people make fun of me, like the pro bowl is so fake now, it's bullshit. It's not fake in the sense of when the first three quarterbacks from each conference are chosen, that's real. Now, as those guys drop out in Josh Allen's playing at Pebble Beach, then it becomes, you know, the importance of the pick definitely becomes negated and not as powerful as the original Pro Bowl group.

But Cousins was clearly one of the best quarterbacks in the NFC. He had taken a team that most of us thought was not only going to come back to Earth, but early in the season was in major trouble. And then Justin Jefferson gets injured. you're like this team is destined to win four or five games. Then all of a sudden he slices and dices the Niners. They're going to beat the Packers with his eyes closed. And you're going, God, they're four and four.

Look at the NFC. This team could cruise to a wildcard spot. And then he could be in position. And I said this a couple, I guess last Monday night when the Vikings beat the 49ers. They're going to let that guy walk. They're going to let a Pro Bowl guy throwing 38 to 40 touchdowns just leave the building after they won nine games

and played in a wild card game? Like, I couldn't see it. And I thought they were going to be, and maybe they took the analytical approach or under no circumstances they budged. But maybe they ended up just said, shit, well, let's just give them two years, 90 million, and guaranteed 70.

Jimmy Garoppolo just got 35. Derek Carr just got 60. You don't think cousins could have got 90 to 100 million dollars. But when you tear your Achilles, which I have such admiration for a guy who gets an injury like that, and I wonder, you know, I've never torn Achilles, but whenever you hear a guy talk about it,

usually, obviously us as viewers, when they go to the slow motion, and you see that calf kind of explode, you know. But when a guy refuses to be carried off and he kind of hobbles to the side, it was bad. And then you see the replay. I'm not at the gym today, and they were showing the replay. I was like, God, he just kind of fell into a sack because his leg didn't work. It's obviously devastating for a guy who, for a long period of time,

let's face it, cousins got made fun of a lot. He did, and I think a big reason is people thought he was geeky and goofy, but also just not very good. And I think one thing that he's proven the last couple years is he's a pretty damn good player, especially to the relative to the rest of the NFL. Is he a top five quarterback? No, he's not. But is he better than, I don't know, 20 guys pretty easily?

Hell yeah, he is. And then clearly the Netflix special with the Coles Cash, it kind of made them relatable. I don't even know as the right word, but just kind of an easy guy to root for. Just someone like we all know kind of a goofy, geeky guy who's actually really, really good at what they do.

And clearly the team liked him. He was having his best season. Kevin O'Connell said that. I found myself really rooting for him. And I think when you tear your Achilles, it's a devastating blow. When you're Aaron Rogers, can take every, you know, medical advice, whatever he wants.

I'll, when he plays this season or he comes back next season and looks completely the same, I'll believe it when I see it. I'm still short in that one. It's very, very difficult. I don't give a shit. Who's working on you? What rehab process you're going through. Father time, Charles Barkley has been saying this forever.

It's undefeated. Now, we have with nutrition, with medical, advances, clearly we have the benefit of 2003 that they did not have in 1994. But there's a reason most guys don't thrive in their mid to late 30s. And I think we saw that come back to fruition. You know, there was Tom Brady who was somehow able to play until he was 45. But the majority of his peers kind of petered out between 38 and 40.

Drew Brees, his last year, he was shot. Rathesberger could barely throw the ball. Same thing with Peyton Manning. You know why? That's what happens at 38, 39 years old in the NFL. And Cousins, unlike Rogers, not a great athlete. Now, I don't know the impact of athleticism in terms of an Achilles rehab, but it can't be nothing. Because at least Rogers, even if he can't move nearly the same as he did five years ago,

honestly, in his couple plays that he had before it popped, I didn't think he was moving the same in a New York Jets jersey as he did like three years ago. Cousins has never been able to move. This to me doesn't just have ramifications on this season because he's out with the Minnesota Vikings. To me, he would have been one of the great wild cards this offseason. There were so many teams, and the team I kept thinking of the Atlanta Falcons, they're a quarterback away from thinking,

that's a 10-11 win team. They're good on defense. They have a ton of talent on offense. Their quarterbacks are just God-awful. Desmond Ritter should be competing to be your backup quarterback, not your starting quarterback. It's why yesterday, when everyone's, oh, he got knocked out of the game with a concussion.

And then the coach said, well, actually, he didn't have a concussion. He got benched. He's not any good. You play him, I don't care if Jerry Rice is lining up out there, or Drake London and Kyle Pitts. You're going to lose more games than you win. And I was like, you don't think they, especially with all these young players on rookie contracts,

wouldn't be aggressive for Kirk Cousins. That wouldn't be a major upgrade. And Arthur Smith would be going, we're going to win this division. Well, that's not an option anymore. I'm not saying Cousin's career is over, But Cousin's career of getting these massive contracts is put on hold. You know the name that I thought of actually today?

Because I was listening to Mike Sando on with Rosillo. And he talked about how these teams and these owners are much more willing to eat cash. They've already paid it. These teams, especially these big money owners, the newer monies, have so much money that Russell Wilson's already been paid a large percentage of his contract. Now, it impacts the books, but they've already given them $85, $90 million. He obviously has more money. coming. But could there be a situation where Atlanta is so desperate? They're clearly not bad enough

to get like a top 10 pick this year, but they're not good enough where they're going to make the playoffs. I'm shorten them hard. What if they could work out something? Because I've been one saying under no circumstances is anyone going to be interested in Russell Wilson. I watched him a little bit yesterday, and he's clearly not the same guy. He's 16 touchdowns, four interceptions. He's definitely more functional than he was last year. What if you get to the point where Denver just kind of eat some of the money? A little bit like a couple years ago

when Vaughn Miller was traded to the Rams for a second and third round pick, they ate I think 90% of his contract. Now, I don't exactly know how all this would work, but in a situation where you're not just handing them the player in the contract. You go, listen, we'll eat 50% of his cash. So you're getting a guy, you know,

instead of $45 million a year on your books, it'll be like $23 million a year. That's still a major upgrade over what they have and they might just be desperate enough to do something like that. Not saying it will happen, but listen to Sando. Let's face it, Sean Payton hates his entire team. Win, loser draw. I don't think he likes any of these guys,

wants no part of Russell Wilson. And like most conventional wisdom would say, stuck with a contract, can't unload. Well, unless you eat some of the money, A lot of times teams when they're trading these contracts, why Jalen Ramsey only goes for a third round pick, because you take on the whole contract back, so you're kind of stuck with it.

Well, if I take on some of that debt and I pay it down, maybe we can work something out, not for a pick of value, but that's a team that I thought cousins had written all over it. What if they get really desperate, eat some money, Russell Wilson, Atlanta is a team to keep the eye on. Trade deadline. There was a trade today, Seattle, who now finds themselves in first place.

place. Traded a second round pick for Leonard Williams, former USC, top five, defensive tackle. Maybe he went six in the draft because I think Amari Cooper went four. It was between him and Amari to the Raiders. They took Amari and then Leonard went a couple picks later. There were like rumors that he had a bad shoulder. Solid player.

I would not call some elite game changer. When I just saw this come across my phone, the first thing I thought about was I was like, oh, they got a guy under contract for the next couple years. why they gave that much for him and then immediately get home, go to the computer, he's a free agent. A little head scratching. Now, here's

the thing with Seattle. They've been known to live in the moment. They've been known to lean aggressive. They are not afraid to fail with trades, right? Jamal Adams somehow still around. They're paying him a lot of money. They gave you up two ones and a two for that guy. They traded a one for Percy Harvin. That blew

up in their face. But they've also been aggressive on the flip side. They traded Russell Wilson when it's easy to say hindsight, Monday morning quarterback was a genius trade. I, along with most people, thought they were fucking idiots and it was going to be a disaster and tank their franchise. It's been the complete opposite. They got both middle fingers up laughing at everybody as they are cruising to the playoffs for the second straight year with Gino Smith at quarterback. Now, I'm not saying this is some game-changing trade. I'm just saying

from their mindset, you know, they don't get caught up with paying 120 cents on the dollar because that's kind of what they did here. They need more defensive line help. People have been running down their throat. But I'll say this about Seattle. They have really, really proven a lot these last couple of years. Pete, John, the infrastructure of the franchise, the way they've drafted once they got some of those Russell Wilson picks.

That's the win they got a little bit lucky, but I mean, you're playing PJ Walker. You're going to have a chance to win, whether there's 30 seconds left or, you know, the entire game left, and they pulled it out. and who caught the game when he touched down. Jackson, Smith, and Jigba. Really good player. Like him and D.K., Tyler Lockett, they're a problem.

Kenneth Walker, Charbonnet. Their offensive skill guys are pretty good. Their defense is just solid. I think they're looking at it, especially after the Niners lose, like, why can't we win this division? We haven't even played them yet. They've got to come here on a short week

on Thanksgiving, I think. So I think Seattle's kind of feeling themselves right now. We'll see how it plays out over the season, but you got to give. it to John and Pete that they ain't scared. MVP talk. One thing I've never understood in college football

is, and this was what was cool about Devante Smith winning the Heisman trophy, is why don't we just rename it the quarterback award? If you're just going to give it to quarterbacks every single year, just rename it the quarterback Heisman because that's essentially what it's become. They're the only guys that can win it.

I think the MVP really became that. I remember being a kid when Barry Sanders split it with Brett Farv, and it was clear. Like Barry Sanders, one of the best players in the league. There was the year, I think J.J. Watt was the best player in the NFL,

and he couldn't win it. Aaron Donald had some years. Couldn't you just give him the MVP? But it was like a quarterback, a quarterback, a quarterback. And obviously there were some years if Tom Brady's thrown for 50 touchdowns or Mahomes or Peyton Manning. This to me feels like a year.

These two wide receivers, AJ Brown and Tyree Kill, AJ currently has 60 catches, 939 yards, five touchdowns. He has 125 plus yards in like eight straight games. Tyreek Hill is obliterating everyone he plays. 61 catches, 1,000 yards, and 9 touchdowns. I mean, Tyreek Hill is currently headed for about 130 catches, 2,100 yards, and about 20 touchdowns.

If he does anything remotely close to that, kind of like the year Adrian Peterson ran for 2,000 yards, one of these guys, you could argue currently, Mahomes obviously was just sick, played shitty and like Lamar, how can one of these guys not legitimately be in the MVP race? If you were a voter for the MVP and these guys keep playing like they're playing and the Eagles are the number one seed, if Miami wins 13 games, how could you not vote for one of these guys? Like what would Lamar, or especially Lamar and Mahomes, who I would say were the quarterbacks coming into this week, who you would say are definitely in the MVP mix?

I would say Lamar's probably based on what he's been dealing with and the bar he had set given the last year. I would probably put him even ahead of my homes. Josh Allen, you know, not far behind, but like, I think I'd vote for Tyree Kiel. If you tell me that Miami Dolphins win 13 games, Tyree Kiel would get my vote.

If you tell me the Eagles basically do the same thing they did last year and win 15 or 16 games and cruise the number one seat, and AJ continues to do this, I would probably put, Tyreek Hill over AJ Brown just given, I think what AJ, he is dominant.

To me, I've been saying it for a while. He's like if George Kittle and Debo Samuel had a baby, like what are you supposed to do with that? How do you cover this guy? And no one does. His team to me is better than Tyreeks. I mean, Tyreeks' offensive line wasn't good to start the season.

And now he's playing with Me, You, and like three other guys. Like, I'm sorry, Jalen and just the crew that he's playing with AJ is just, better than what Tyreeks's doing. That's why I'd give him the slight edge. But I wouldn't have any problem if any voter wants to vote for one of these guys. I just think we need to make it more common to stop voting for quarterbacks if other positions like these two guys throw their hat in the ring. Let's end with this. My friends at Morgan and Morgan, player that made it look easy. We go with a lot of players. Tyreek, A.J. Brown, good examples. Tonight, Gibbs with the Lions was awesome.

But anytime a rookie quarterback makes his debut, it's pretty cool. And it's one thing when it's like a Tommy DeVito and no one's ever heard of him or the dude from the Bears Badgett. It's like, I don't even know who this guy is. Another one is Will Levis, who at one point in time in Will Levis's collegiate career, I thought he had a chance to be the number one overall pick. His junior year at Kentucky, they were really good. And he physically, you know, he's 6364, he's got a huge arm.

It's like, this is kind of what it looks like. And then his senior year, disaster, offensive coordinator from the 49ers, Rich Skangarello, they implode, the team's not as good, and it's a problem. And then come draft time, he doesn't get drafted in the first round,

he goes to the Titans. It doesn't even feel like it's going that well in the Titans, right? Like Malik Willis, who is just, he plays quarterback, but when you watch him play quarterback, you're like, this is not a quarterback, was ahead of him on the depth chart. And then even last year,

last week when Tanny Hill got hurt. It was like, you know, Vrable's going to do this thing. It's like college football. They're going to split reps in the game. Like, what? And then he just goes to Will Levis. And then, trust me, I mean,

I got to admit, be candid here, this is a podcast. I wasn't super locked in coming into the day on Falcons, Titans. I didn't even watch that much of the game, but I went back

and watched every throw. Some of his, and he threw four touchdowns, Hopkins had three. Some of the incomprehensible. completions in that game were jaw-dropping. Like they were sweet. Some of his best throws in that game were incompletions.

His fourth touchdown, kind of rolling to the right, across his body, bomb back left, was really impressive. Now, it's pro sports, becoming a good player, is not about being a one-hit wonder or even having one good year. It's about doing it over and over and over again. And hell, they play this Thursday night against the Pittsburgh Steelers. T.J.W.

It's going to be very, very different. He's making the start, but you got to give it to Will Levis. NFL debut, four touchdowns for a team that was just desperate for some life at quarterback. So my Morgan and Morgan player that made it look easy, Will Levis. If you're ever injured, you can check on Morgan and Morgan. They're fees free unless they win. For more information, go to for the people.com slash john, that's J-O-H-N,

or dial pound-law, pound 529 from your cell phone. That's for the people.com slash john. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media.

Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger.

So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs?

Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jay. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s.

To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people.

Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, let's dive in Jets, Giants. And I want to put in perspective my relationship with weather games. For the first 18 years of my life, born and raised Davis, California, right by Sacramento. then for five years I went to Cal Poly, which is in the middle of California, by the water,

and then for a couple years, I lived in Fresno. So until I was like 24, 25 years old and moved to Philadelphia, I did an internship with the Kansas Chiefs, my senior year in college, but was there for like three months. Now, by the end of that, it was freezing cold, and, you know, the field would freeze and you were freezing your ass off, but truly living a winter in a non-California place in the North Carolina place in the Northeast wasn't until 2010. And I'll never forget when I worked in the office, you just wore

normal clothes or whatever, but on game day, you wore a suit to the game. So all the home games, I didn't travel, I just went to the home games, and you wore a suit, and I owned one suit. It was a suit that my father had bought me, I think, for like my graduation present in college. It was a nice like Italian suit, which was probably too baggy at the time, but hell, I still own it. And I remember going to a game early on in the season you know it's hot humid you're sweating and then the weather turns and you know for most of us on the west coast depending on where you live winter like we don't live in the snow i was i grew up two hours away from lake tahoe when i wanted to go the snow or the freezing cold we got in our car and we drove two hours of tahoe and then when we were

over it we came home but when i lived in philadelphia you just kind of live in it and obviously when you work in football, you play in it. And it's a huge part of football. From Pittsburgh to Philly to D.C. to obviously New York teams to Boston. And then the Midwest teams from Chicago and Kansas City, like, playing in the cold, this isn't just, it comes in December, right? You see these games in the middle to late October.

There's still two and a half months left of the regular season. And then if you want to play in the playoffs, you have to be able to play in clement weather. But I'll never forget showing up to the game and it being probably 30 degrees. It might have been a Sunday or Monday night game and by 10 minutes of standing on the field pregame I couldn't feel my body and everyone in the Northeast you guys wear those long trench coats that are thick that keep you warm. Not only did I not own one it never even crossed my mind to purchase one and then by the next couple days I had to call my parents like I I didn't realize you got to wear something over your suit or you freeze your ass off.

And when I was scouting the West Coast, I remember in a draft meeting, Matt Barclay came up. And I'm like, you know, I don't see it. I don't think he has the physical characteristics to play in Philadelphia. And that would go for any of the other teams that are in inclement spots.

I'm like, L.A. guy, played at SC, born and race. Like, I don't feel that vibe. Average arm, like, not a great athlete. I'm not into it. I don't see it. Now, obviously, Chip disagreed. He drafted them. was gone a couple of days later.

But I've always believed that, you know. And Tom Brady is a good example of, yeah, he's a California guy. And then he went and spent five years in Michigan, right? So by the time he got to Boston, he was somewhat acclimated to the weather. Right. Capradic, same thing from Stockton or whatever, Turlock, California, but then spent five years in Nevada arena where it's really, really cold. I can attest when I was at Fresno State, we played a game up there, I think,

in early November when Cap was on the team and he destroyed us. And by about the second quarter, I'm like, I can't feel my body and I got several layers on. on. So playing in the cold at court, like other positions, offensive linemen, defensive linemen, like that usually translates. But at quarterback, it always makes me nervous. And when the Jets, when you draft the number two, you better feel very, very comfortable if you're one of those teams.

This guy can play in tough weather, right? And Zach Wilson, in theory, Provo, Utah, it gets cold in BYU. you would think, but you watch this guy in inclement weather, and I said, listen, I got to take this back. I said a couple weeks ago on Sunday show that we do with Colin, like he was becoming a functional player.

Willie Cologne went on this fantastic rant. I love it when former players just can talk like us normal media people or normal people that talk about football, just can talk and verbalize their thoughts like a fan and just like, this is embarrassing. So many players are afraid to say stuff. That's why I never had a problem like Rodney Harrison and some of these guys that piss people off.

Why do you think most people that piss people off that are sitting in my seat that have podcasts or host shows? You've got to be willing to say some uncomfortable things. And Willie Colon was a shit on Zach Wilson. And kind of rightfully so. He's not a functional player right now. It is crazy that they can barely win these games when their team is really good. I understand why the Giants can't win. They're not that good.

They're on their third string quarterback. this guy was drafted number two overall. And I'm watching that game, a lot like the Steeler Jags game, inclement weather. Not an easy place to play, right? But when I, looking back, Joe Douglas, when you took him, you had to be very, very comfortable that this shit was going to translate. Right? And he doesn't play well in the sun, let alone bad weather.

This guy can't complete 60% of his passes right now in the modern day NFL. I mean, he is a terrible player. He really is. They won despite him. The third downs in that game were just an embarrassment in, you know, totality for both teams. It was closer to zero third downs converted than 10, and there were 34 opportunities.

But the Jets have a major, major problem on their hands. Because a lot like the Browns, they have a playoff team. Just remove the quarterback and just look at the totality of the roster. You go, that's a 10 to 12-win team, depending on the quarterback. If you can just put, let's just take the guy who reprehs, just pure average over the last four or five years. To me, that'd be a Jimmy Garoppolo. He's not good, but he's not bad.

He's just somewhere between 14 and 18 in the NFL. He can have series where he's a top 10 quarterback, and he can have series where he's a bottom five quarterback. But if your team's good around him, you can compete to make the playoffs every year. And that, to me, is like, what the Jets and the Browns would die for. Now, in fairness to the Browns, in fairness to the Browns,

their starting quarterback has this injury situation that no one can get their, you know, kind of head around, everyone's saying he's actually hurt. It's just bizarre. But the reality is they're rolling out PJ Walker, and it was crazy that they had won the previous two weeks with that guy basically as their starting quarterback. The Jets, once he tears his Achilles,

and I said it from the jump, you go into a season with this guy as your backup quarterback. This is not other positions where you can be like, you know, we don't love our backup guard, but like you can play with it. Like most teams have question marks at other position. Your backup quarterback, when you are a playoff level team, is one snap away from starting every single game.

And we saw that with the Jets in week one. It was four or five plays into the season. He's your starter then from then on out. And hell, in the middle of the season, he's one snap away from starting a couple weeks. It's the only position where the moment an injury happens, that guy's getting unlimited snap. There's no rotation.

There's nothing else you can do. It's like a kicker and a punter. If he's your starting quarterback, if he's your starting kicker, if he's your starting punter, that's the case. And the moment Rogers went down, just like the moment Kenny Pickett went down. I'm looking up and seeing, I googled it this morning. I was like, didn't they sign him to an extension? They signed this offseason Mitch Trubisky to an extension.

If he's going to be your backup quarterback and you hold yourself to a playoff standard, you have to realize at any moment, a broken rib, a broken leg, a torn ACL, a broken hand, like Kenny Pickett can miss time. And Kenny Pickett is more than debatable, right, how good he is or not, right? I think we all know when he's good, they can compete. But he has a lot of bad games too. And also, like Zach Wilson, in inclement weather, don't love it, which is not ideal. Though the Steelers would say, well, we got to watch him.

He played at Pitt for five years in our backyard, literally in our stadium. The moment you can't play well in inclement weather and you're starting on one of these teams, you're just fucked. You really are. The Steelers Forever had Ralthusberger. The Giants Forever had Eli Manning. Obviously, the Patriots. These guys could play in those weather conditions.

One of the best weather games I think I've ever seen. And listen, the box score will not reflect it. But if you were watching it live, the Giants versus the 49ers, Harbaugh's first year NFC championship game, driving rainstorm at Candlestick, they are peppering Eli Manning. Play and play out, he just kept getting up. He just kept getting up.

He was able to throw the ball, unlike Alex Smith, who couldn't complete third down passes. And if you can't play in weather conditions, listen, I don't know how the Jets are going to get to the finish line. Clearly, they're somehow four and three, and that is a huge, huge, the rest of the team should get a standing ovation on a daily basis the moment they walk into the team meeting from Zach Wilson. And Nathaniel Hackett, because with this offensive output, but it's just not sustainable to win the... You need such weird shit to happen on a weekly bet. You need your defense to play so awesome. You need your special teams to block a field goal,

or hell, them to miss field goals. And this quarterback situation is just a reflection of everyone misses on picks. Every single team does. Whether you're drafting it two or whether you're drafting it 150. You're not going to hit on every draft pick. But when you hold on to a draft pick, when you know you've missed, it's when you find yourself in trouble.

And right now the Jets are holding on for dear life because they had moved on after last season. But then once they got Aaron Rogers, they kind of pivoted, they thought he could be, I don't know, I wouldn't even say resurrected, but could learn from him. Well, the moment Rogers tears Achilles and is in Los Angeles rehabbing, I know he comes back every once in while he's been to a couple games,

that's not the same. You are dependent when the ball snapped on that guy making place. And that, what we just witnessed, because I don't even count the Giants' offense, right? Sekewan Barker was basically getting the ball every single play. What the Jets were doing on offense. I mean, there were some plays,

and I've seen this now a couple weeks in a row, where it'll be Garrett Wilson or someone on the outside, and they'll be running like a go route, and Zach Wilson, for whatever reason, we'll think it was like some hot route, or maybe he thought he had given an alert, and he'll throw like this back shoulder fade, or he'll throw like a quick out,

and the guy will just be running 30 yards up the field and the ball will skip into the sideline. So it's one thing if your physical attributes as your accuracy are more than questionable. It doesn't feel like he always knows the offense, which is pretty scary. And you just, I don't know, there's no fix, just like with the Browns. There's no fix. So you just got to hold on. Hopefully your team makes plays.

Somehow, if you just make the playoffs with this level quarterback play, it should be worth in your fans' mind a playoff victory alone because that is an incredible accomplishment. I mentioned this to Colin the other day and it really crystallized watching, especially the second half, the Saints started making plays, but I've thought this all season long. The Saints have absolutely no excuse to not win the division.

And not only win the division, they should win the division by several games. They are clearly the best team top to bottom. they have a quarterback that they paid a lot of money to. And to me, I was thinking about this today. If somehow the Saints do not win the division, if you don't win the division, you're not going to make the playoffs. I think that is an immediate, fireable offense for the head coach Dennis Allen,

who I played golf on Saturday with a guy from Louisiana. And so obviously football comes up and we just start talking about the Saints. He's like, God, I think we're pretty good. He's like, I mean, I think our defense is playing pretty well. I think clearly you look at these offensive weapons pretty good. he's like, our coach is an idiot. And I think any time that you make a transition from a successful coach to his right-hand man, it's very, very risky.

And Dennis Allen, to me, is your classic example of someone who is very, very good when they are in a position where they can just focus on their expertise. When he's a defensive coordinator, all he has to focus is half the team, get the defense ready to roll, and they were successful those last couple years of the Sean Payton era on defense. the moment you move that guy to head coach Isn't there, I forget it was a study Or it's like the old saying of you're better off

If you take 10 things in life Trying to be like middle of the road in all of them You're better off being awesome at one or two things And basically being a failure at everything else Honestly, that's kind of the tactic I take with my life I do a couple things well I don't waste any time on anything else Because one I will screw it up

two, if I try to do, like, let's just use house projects, for example, I'll end up ruining it and it'll cost me more money in the long run. My time is the most valuable thing I have. I'm good at like three things. And I just focus on that. There are only so many people we've seen over and over in any walk of life that can handle everything. And it definitely comes into play when you're a head coach. Because when you're a head coach, well, you were previously a defensive or offensive coordinator. So you're going to spend probably a, um,

I would say extra amount of time on that side of the ball. But you also, because you're the headman, deal with the side of the ball that you're not an expert in, then you manage and deal with personalities, your staff, things going wrong, injury, the general manager. You deal with everything. And it's a small percentage of people that can do it. I think you see it with Todd Bowles,

you see it with Dennis Allen. The moment they go from being a defensive coordinator where they're both excellent at, to being the head coach, everything slips. You saw it for a couple years with Denver. Now, I understand that Denver didn't have a quarterback, but even if you gave Fangio a quarterback, I think he's proven, put him in defense.

Let him dominate that side of the ball. Get him the players, and he will kick ass and take names. Even Miami, for as questionable as their defense looked early, a lot of it was personnel-driven. They're going to be fine because they got Vic Fangio. If you made Vic Fangio the head coach, if Mike McDaniel just disappeared tomorrow, you would have a major problem on your hands.

And he's not alone. And I say this, the best part about being a coordinator in the NFL, this isn't baseball where they paid their assistance like 120 grand. This isn't basketball where, you know, a handful of assistants make big money, and most of the guys are middle of the road. If you are a coordinator in the NFL, 32 coordinators on offense and 32 coordinators on defense,

make seven figures. And the highly paid defensive coordinators in the NFL are making three and four million. million dollars. Dan Quinn? Dan Quinn ain't making two million dollars. I'll promise you that. He's probably making closer to five. Same thing with Vic Fangio. I'm talking big money. Now, I understand the Dennis Allen's of the world. They get their opportunity to be a head coach. You know, there's a big difference of making two million and making eight or nine. I get it. I understand why they do it. The problem is when you are the organization, when you're Mickey Loomis and the owner,

and you do do that, you put yourself at a huge disadvantage. And listen, I'm not confident because ultimately Dennis Allen is more than questionable, and let's face it, if the Saints don't make the playoffs this year, and Derek Carr has more games like he did a couple weeks ago on Thursday night, and the way he was playing early in the season, not the way he played down the stretch against the Colts, who, let's face it, are not a very good team. That is going to be a reflection that everyone that beat the drum for years,

calling him overrated, overpaid, not very good. I always defended him. I was like he's better than everyone realizes. He's closer to the Cousins' DAC kind of realm. them, well, if you miss the playoffs and you have shitty games in big spots, I'm sorry, those haters were right. And I think there's a ton on the line. And to me, you don't make the playoffs.

Dennis Allen's done and Derek's legacy, I don't even think Derek has a legacy. But in terms of the narrative on his career would probably end up skewing negative. So I think the Saints just, they're a team that really, really intrigues me. Because honestly, I don't see how they don't win the division. but it keeps going back to Dennis Allen. And then like I said with the Steelers and Jags game, the Steelers are a quarterback away. I mean, it's really that simple.

And even Kenny Pickett, I know he got injured in the game. To me, I always, listen, this is football. So when a game happens, we react to it. And it's easy when a guy plays well to get excited, just like it's easy when a guy plays shitty to be down on it. There is a small percentage of players like Aaron Donald, Patrick Mahomes, Travis Kelsey Like some guys have bad games, whatever

Trent Williams gives up a sack No one's losing any sleep Michael Parsons has a game where you don't notice him It's football, it's welcome to life He gets the benefit of the doubt Kenny Pickett does not And I got excited to watch him against the Rams Well it turns out the Rams suck

The Rams are not any good So when you got to play outdoors Against another playoff team He looked terrible And then obviously Mitch comes in And it's even worse And the Steelers have no chance I don't care about the penalty

I don't care how many plays T.J. Watt plays. When your quarterback play is that shitty against another guy who's a pro bowl level quarterback and a team that looks like they're headed toward 12 wins, you're going to lose. And I give the Jags a lot of credit. Outdoor game, wet, on the road, they were the grittier team. Just that simple. They were the grittier team. And ETN, that's another thing.

If you could have a do-over on Najee Harris and ETN, to me it's a no-brainer. E.N is really the modern day running back. A guy that can do both, a guy whose speed can play in space, and you can put him everywhere in the backfield. He can flex out wide and play some wide receiver. Not wide receiver like Urban Meyer wanted him to train at wide receiver, but just a guy that can be very, very productive in the passing game. And you watch the Jags, their defense is nowhere near as talented as the Pittsburgh Steelers.

But their offense, because they have a frame. franchise quarterback is able to function even in shitty, wet, ugly conditions. And I go back and forth on the Steelers because you watch them against the Rams. God, maybe they, no, they were in perfect conditions and the quarterback hit a couple bombs to pickings. You put them in a tough spot where there's some pressure. It's not easy to grip the ball, small hands. You get what you get against the Jags.

A couple other things. It is, you know, I don't know the reasoning behind this. I don't know how we're here, but simply put, there have been a lot of quarterback injuries this year. Now, when other positions get injured, I typically take the stance of it's because training camp, it's not very physical, you don't do anything. No one's touched a quarterback in training camp since, like, the 80s.

So I don't know if there's some randomness on this. I don't know if it's the lack of practice, just even at full speed anymore for quarterbacks. I think a huge reason is offensive linemen now have never been, shittier. And I say that with all respect to the position, how hard it is to play the position. But clearly, the amount of offensive linemen coming into the NFL and the amount of high-end defensive linemen coming in the NFL is disproportionate. There are way more, I don't know the exact number, but it feels like a three to one ratio. I mean, it feels like

the amount of impact inside and external like outside pass rushers relative to just, this guy's a legit starting offensive lineman. Someone told me the other day, like, you look at Skoronsky and some of these guys that have been drafted really high at offensive lineman, they're like, yeah, it's like, that guy's probably more of a second rounder, but a lot like quarterback, the amount of, the limited amount of guys in a given draft, you overdraft offensive lineman. We're defensive linemen every single year. It's like, yeah, this guy's a no-brainer.

Multiple guys in the top 10, another guy in the teens, a couple more in the 20s, a bunch of guys in the second round. Because there's a lot of talent coming in on that side of the ball. And clearly from a financial standpoint, you also get paid to pay defensive line a lot of money. So it behooves people at that position to try to play in college if you can. And you get drafted high and then your second contracts are huge. So I think a huge reason a lot of people, you know, to talk about football, coaches think it's because of the spread offense in college has had a huge impact.

You know, back when, hell, just 15, 20 years ago, the majority of teams ran pro-style offenses. The Mike Leach's were really more outliers. Now, I'm not saying that specific air raid offense, but so many teams now have air raid principles and spread it out that that's really more in vogue than you watch a team, like how many colleges are playing with a fullback? When I worked at Fresnel State in 2008-09,

a ton of teams had fullbacks. A ton of teams, their base offense was a pro set, which was five offensive linemen, a tight end, two running backs, one being a fullback, and two wide receivers. I think that is very, very few teams in college football do that. So that has a direct reflection on how you practice, on how you develop offensive linemen. And, I mean, look at Deion. He's bitching him on it after the game.

How much is offensive linemen suck? Like, well, Dion, welcome to football. Like, Larry Allen ain't walking through that door. I don't care how much money you have. It's not going to be easy to find good offensive linemen. it's just not. So you're going to be at a disadvantage. Look at USC.

USC. In Pete Carroll's heyday, when I think of USC, I think of the line of scrimmage, offensive and defensive lines. Now you watch USC, Caleb's running for his life. I mean,

for as bad as they are on defense, they're just a shitty up front on offense. So I don't know, man. I think a huge reason some of these quarterbacks are getting pepper. I just think they're going to get hit more because these offensive linemen can't block. A couple quick things on college.

Harbaugh, that story is just not going to go away. He's obviously at the point now where I can only talk about the upcoming game. I'm not going to focus on a contract. He denied that they had a huge contract extension on the table for him. Once this cheating scandal, which I'm already kind of over, who gives a shit. But clearly people do. And they've rescinded the offer according to Wall Street Journal. He denied it.

then I saw there were some reports that that's not necessarily true. He's been told don't sign it yet. All I know is they were headed on a fast track would felt like the best opportunity he's had to win a national championship, and now things are weird. Now, he could still win the national championship. If you watch college football, I don't think there are the dominant what Georgia was a couple years ago,

what Alabama's teams have been, some of those Urban Meyer, Ohio State teams talent-wise, so he could still win the national championship. But do you know what sucks? that if he does win it, and I always think that's so stupid, like it happens a lot in basketball, because everyone's been cheating their ass out for 50 years in that sport, and rightfully so.

One or two players can change the course of a season. We're in college football, one player, unless it's a quarterback, probably isn't having as dramatic of an impact as you think. Hell, Travis Hunter was one of the biggest recruits in the country. You watch him against Stanford, he was getting smoked. He's getting beaten by a drum. So if Harbaugh wins it, the shitty part is,

Maybe they vacated it in a couple years. And it always happens like Memphis or Kansas or whoever has to take off their final four banners. Those don't count. No, they did. We watched it. That happened. No one cares that he was getting 50K on the side and driving a Beamer. No one gives a shit except some overeducated dude at the NCAA headquarters.

No one else cares. Everyone's doing it. So I think that's inevitable in this case, unless I'm missing something. It is funny hearing some of these stories about how they were funneling information to other teams, South Carolina being won. I mean, I'm entertained by it, but what's going to suck is the ultimate ramifications

of the investigation in how it feels like this season is just going to be, they'll pretend that none of it counts. They might win the national championship, and then they'll have to vacate it. No, we watched them. They beat everybody they played. In Colorado, I guess they're playing. players got robbed at the Rose Bowl.

When you go to the Rose Bowl, their visitor locker room, when I was at Fresno, we played them and beat them. Ryan Matthews had an incredible game. Rick Newheisel was their coach. Place is sweet. They had just redone the visitor's locker room. I mean, it's just pristine.

It's probably nicer, the visiting locker room at the Rose Bowl, than 80% of NFL teams visiting locker room. And I guess, you know, a bunch of people stole stuff out of their cubbies or whatever. not totally shocked. I mean, it's California. There aren't many laws being followed there.

So, yeah, and I guess this happened before to them at Jackson State, Dion, at least. I don't think Dion got robbed. I think some of his players did, but that team is kind of been a free fall. That's the other thing. I watch some of that game. They're just not that good.

And if you look at their schedule, you know, for as fun as Colorado was early in the season, and rightfully so they were. I was very entertained by the Dion experience. They're getting worked now. They're getting worked. And one name to keep an eye on, is Anthony Lynn's son.

I think you say his name DeAnton Lynn, who played football at Penn State, has worked in the NFL for several years, the last couple years with the Ravens. UCLA's defense is no joke. So really, that's not even a bad loss for Colorado. UCLA is better than them, but that's a team, I mean,

I think UCLA would beat USC. Now, the one thing is UCLA's got offensive issues because they have this five-star quarterback, they paid all this money to, who if you don't play him, he'll transfer. The problem is he kind of sucks right now. He throws like a pick six every game.

But defensively, that team is, you know, Utah, Oregon. I mean, it's one of the better defenses definitely in the conference, but in the entire country. So UCLA, kicking ass, taking names. It's weird. You know, Chip's known for offense, and right now he's got a defensive team. For a limited time, you can say 40% on NFL Plus

premium annual subscription when you signed up through Plus play from Verizon. Plus play is a platform where you can shop, manage, and save on the subscriptions you already love, like NFL Plus. With NFL Plus premium, you get access to live games on mobile NFL Red Zone, NFL Network, and more. So you can watch multiple games all at once on any screen around you for updates. Never miss a touchdown. And for fantasy football players, NFL Plus Premium makes all the difference. Access to programming like Fantasy Live through NFL Network, Red Zone, for tracking player performance. on Sunday, access to live local primetime games, access to Fantasy Plus.

Just go to Verizon.com slash NFL to get NFL Plus premium today. It's 40% off an annual subscription. That's just $59.99 for the full season. Get it before it's gone. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all. in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying.

Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment,

and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right what you need to be. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs?

Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to? do a little kill. Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s.

To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but yeah, yeah, literally. But just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS. on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people.

Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, let's dive into the mailbag. At John Middlecough is the Instagram firing those DMs. at John Middilkoff DMs wide open

we will start here with Trey question for the bag what are your thoughts on Thursday night football prime vision experience this excludes the broadcasters it has the sky view next gen stats and player labels

are great for gambling and fantasy but some of the features are a bit much for my taste do you see other networks adopting similar broadcast options as the league moves towards streaming. I think these streaming companies will always try things that maybe

the broadcast cable networks or even Fox or CBS will be hesitant to try and in fairness if you're CBS or Fox like what you've been doing regardless how much we complain works.

I mean the prime time primetime is the wrong word for Fox and CBS but they're big games and the afternoon windows for us the West Coast, 125, Nancy Romo, or now Burkhart and Olson.

I mean, you're talking 20 plus million people watching. There's not a television show outside of politics that sniffs that in 2020. So sometimes it's hard to be, quote unquote, progressive with the way you approach stuff

in a business like this when things are printing cash. So I understand why Amazon, nothing to lose, unlimited money, trying stuff. It's not, I tried it last year. I remember early on just flipping through their different options.

It was a little much for me. Cool for a second, but I'm not really that into it. And I'm someone that complains sometimes about broadcasters, though I will still watch. And I've done this before. I'll just turn it down, especially for those of you, I'm sure that listening that have kids or a wife,

sometimes you just end up turning the game down, keeping it on television so you can watch it and just have music or other stuff going on. I tend to do that more than try to watch. watch the alternative broadcast. I like watching the game. I know McAfee does that thing on Saturday now during college football games. Obviously last year, Peyton and Eli, which Peyton and Eli are enjoyable, but so far in 2023, and I love Peyton Manning and Eli Manning. I'd watch games with them all day long. Though, if the Monday night game matters and they're doing it,

I just want to watch the game. The other problem is they bring on guests, like it's a podcast, which I understand, but sometimes that guest's Wi-Fi doesn't work or the audio's off. I'd rather just, especially now, let's face it. One huge element to watching Monday night football these last two years,

say what you want, even if you're not some diehard Joe Buck guy, it is dramatically better than what it was. It was, it fell off after Gruden, and it's just back rolling. again. It feels big. And if you feel big, even if I don't love you as a broadcast team, like, I'll watch

you. Okay, I love the regular content. I wanted to get your opinion on the mainstream sports talk shows on ESPN and FS1. I used to watch them every now and then, but now they're unbearable. Most of the analysts are just loud, obnoxious, biased, hot take artists just after views. Your boy

Colin being an exception. I would say the difference of Colin and the shows is Colin is a it's a TV show now but it's still at its core a radio show podcast like he's a

I put him in a completely different category than just first take I feel like they'll die out soon and people will stream specific content like from creators they like even if I disagree with an opinion of yours I know it's fair and unbiased

like this guy out can't say the same for people that watch these shows well I would say this this. The key to these shows is there's a social media element to growth that you got to say wild shit, which I've never really, I never think about that when I do a show. I just try to do an entertaining show, try to be relatable, and just talk. Sometimes I probably say things that people think are bad shit crazy, but I kind of believe it, which I'm sure a lot of people that host shows are also like that. Those shows do nothing for me. I don't watch. I don't watch. I don't watch. I'm, I'm sure a lot of people that host shows. I don't

watch. I have a lot of admiration for how hard it is to get up every morning if you're, you know, Skip Bayless is getting to the office at 4 o'clock in the morning. I remember when Colin hired Shannon or partnered with Shannon and club shay-shay and stuff, I listened to a podcast he did with him and you know, he was like, you know, you know the discipline it takes and clearly Shannon, I mean, he's jacked, is a very disciplined individual, but coming to work every morning at 435 in the morning, like doing a morning radio show or a morning television show is no joke but like it's

I just don't care enough to talk about all the topics that you have to talk about on television like I have no desire to do that and I don't consume it like I'm not their consumer I never have been and obviously never will be

but listen it's it's not easy as someone that did a radio show every day like the thing with podcast I can talk about what ever I want. Now, because of the volume I'm putting out and we've, you know, grown over the years, when you do a television show, or specifically, definitely I can speak from the radio, the individual ratings on a daily basis are just so important that you do have to like cognitively think about. You just can't always talk about what you want to talk about. Where on this medium, you're coming

for me. Like ultimately ESPN or Fox Sports, like if they change a lineup, people that watch that show still watch the show. When you watch Colin, you're coming for Colin. When you come to a podcast, like when you seek out Joe Rogan or pardon my take or whoever, you are coming for that individual. The network can't just change that individual for someone else and that podcast feed still do well. That's why I feel pretty good about the future of the business I'm in. You're coming for me. You can just take my feed and just call it now the Bill Wills. I'm a little. The Bill Williamson show. He'd be like, well, who's this guy? Right? I was coming from Middlecough. And that's the power, I'd say, of audio. Television could be a little different

that way. Now, Stephen A is somewhat of an exception. People come for him. And I think he's broken through. It's why he makes a lot of money, right? Because he's essentially, while he's a TV host, he has the power of what Dan Patrick or Colin, like, you're coming for them. Who's the franchise quarterback? Question. Fluke season is over, Mr. Seventh round. nice excuse for the Rams time zone reason one hit wonder Purdy That's the DM And then he sent me a picture of Dak Prescott

And Brock Purdy Yeah I don't know what to You know the crazy thing is I heard Mike Sando Say Purdy had nine He had nine passes over 20 yards Which I think led the league This weekend on explosive passes down the field Before he started throwing picks

Which were atrocious he was actually playing really well. He pushes the ball down the field. He is dramatically better than Jimmy Garoppolo. Now, we'll see. If he started turning the ball over, we got problems. But the guy can push the ball down the field. Defense, like, hey, Steve Wilkes,

you're about to get fired, bro. Love the show, my favorite football. I'll keep it simple. Thoughts on Will Levis. Seem to have a good debut. Are him in Hopkins a good combo? Henry looked good as well. With Levis being able to pass the ball,

even all the trade rumors, We talked about him a little bit earlier, but all you got to do is type in Will Levis's passes from Sunday, and it'll just have all of his passes. It's an eye-opener. His arm strength, I knew in college, if he watched him in Kentucky, and I was keeping eye on him for a couple years,

physically he was really gifted. His senior year was atrocious. Now, the team was bad, the offensive coordinator was bad, but that performance was really, really impressive. I would be really excited. Now, the thing with rookie quarterbacks, it can just be up and down week to week, right? You play on short week this week.

Who knows what it's going to look like? But I don't blame anyone in Nashville for being super excited that guy makes his debut throws four touchdown passes. And some of his incompletions were incredible. How do television ratings count Red Zone? You don't technically watch the game,

but you still watch the game via Red Zone. Does it count as a viewer for a game? No, it doesn't. It counts. I think Red Zone is independently rated. And I don't know what their ratings are, but you don't, you know, if it's, let's say throughout the three-hour game,

you watch 10, 20 minutes of New York Jets Giants game. That eyeball that you had watching on the Red Zone does not go toward their rating on Fox. So I think it's just like anything It's rated as a channel So just because it carries all those games The percentage that humans are watching the red zone On that given game have nothing to do with the games rating

Random question Would it be possible to timestamp your content in the description Some days when I'm on the go I don't get the whole pot in and the next day Want to get to the one you just put out Thanks so much for the great content Love the way you're going to be break down how things are actually different than they appear on the surface of the headline.

Well, I guess we could, but if you're listening to the podcast, let's say, and it's an hour long, and you get through 30 minutes, and the next day I put out a new podcast, unless you've listened to another podcast, wouldn't you still be on that spot if you had to do something else? Now, trust me, my ego is not big enough to think that you wouldn't click on another podcast or whatever throughout the day, but couldn't, like sometimes I do that and I just kind of go back to where I was listening. or I just move on to the next one. So if I timestamp it, though,

I don't know how that fixes your problem, I guess, because if you get to whatever minute mark and you're done listening for the given day, you've got to pick up your son or you've got to make dinner or whatever's happening, and then a day later, you know, the new podcast is uploaded in the feed and you want to finish the other one,

can you just figure out where you were? I'm not even trying to make this more difficult than it is. That's how I'm just, I'm a consumer. as well. Like, I'm no different than you. I listen to podcasts. That's how I go about it. But clearly, time stance, maybe I'm behind the curve on that one. I really enjoy your podcast. My question is about Kyler Murray. I know you and Michael Lombardi have spoken about the contract implications for the Cardinals as it pertains to coming back this season and getting re-injured.

But do you think part of the urgency by the Cardinals to bring him back this season is wanting to make a long-term decision about Murray with this upcoming quarterback class looking so promising and probably having a top five pick. Well, right before I recorded this part of the pod, I saw on Instagram that Jonathan Gannon had said that Joshua Dobbs will not start this week. It is between Kyler Murray, and I forget the other guy's name.

I think they drafted a guy. Yeah, they drafted a guy from some random school. But to start Kyler Murray, you'd obviously have to activate him from Injur Reserve, which is very easy for them to do. Listen, I would, I would take the risk and play him. And if he looks good, it gives you two options.

One, your team still sucks. You're not going to win that many games. And two, if he does look good and you keep losing it, it's not like he'd come back and be like Patrick Mahomes and all of a sudden you end up winning seven games. That's not going to happen. Even if he wins you an extra game or two, you're still going to be right there in the mix.

And two, that gives you the option of trading him. Because right now for him to have trade value, where it's lucrative enough for you to pull the trigger and getting rid of him, he's got to come back and look good. I still think he has trade value, even if he doesn't play a snap this season. But if he comes back, looks good, runs around, makes him plays, throw some touchdowns, makes plays with his legs, there are going to be teams that are going to trade for him. They've got how many teams need quarterbacks?

So I would probably risk it. Because I also look at, listen, some of these numbers feel outrageous to me and you. Just like any human being, there are some people if you just say, hey, I'm having this guy put in some trees in my back. backyard this week. $10,000. If you would have told me that five years ago,

I'd be like, well, you're spending wet on trees? Like, yeah, I need some ficus trees to block my neighbor so they can't sing in. Right?

And some people that would say they just did something for 500 grand. Money's all relative. So $50 million risk, or I think it's a little less than that, whatever the is,

is a lot of money to 99% of businesses. In the NFL, every year you're getting a check from the media rights deals for almost $400 million. So you've got to cut the fucking check, even though Michael Didwell

doesn't have any money. outside of, you know, the team relative to other owners. Who cares? This is a big boy business. That's why I always say about Dean Spanos. It's like you're not in the business in the 1997 anymore. This is 2003. All this money is just, it's nominal relative to the big picture.

So if you're obsessed with paying $7,8 million to a coach and you're unwilling to spend $15 million a year, which is honestly only a $7 or $8 million difference, even over the aggregate of a contract could be $20 or $30 million, you are so short-sighted and you deserve to fucking lose every single season. So to me, if he is healthy, now I understand not playing

Kyler Murray if he's legitimately not healthy. I know he's back at practice, but if you're like, God, he just doesn't even look remotely close, that's football. That's welcome to, you know, you don't put compromised players. But if he is, to me, 90 plus percent run around out there,

I think you plan. You risk it. And because everything has risk for reward. Right? That's the business. world. Things can go wrong. But things can also go right. If he does look good, one, maybe you're like, I actually kind of like him in this offense. Or two, maybe you pretend that and then you flip him. Maybe you get several draft picks. Hell, maybe he looks good enough. You get a first round draft pick.

So I think part of life, you've got to be willing to risk it. Historically risking $50 million is insane. But in 2003, with the amount of money all these teams generate, it's more than a line item. but it doesn't affect your franchise. It's like that in business. When you first start a business, every expense is kind of jarring. And then maybe you start making some money, and those expenses just go up and up and up.

And if you get to be an enormous company like Amazon or Apple, I can't even imagine seeing some of their expenses, right? They'd be fucking enormous. Like a minor league baseball team stays at a shitty hotel. The Golden State Warriors stay at the four seasons. Right? The expenses are just different. Some people gamble. a lot more money than others.

Right? What I have to gamble on a game to make it worth my while for excitement would make some of you be like, damn, that's a lot of money. Just like the amount, some people, when I see like Dave Portneux, see how much some of those guys put on games,

it's like, damn, that's a lot of money. Money all relative. And right now, the money in the NFL, if you are afraid of nominal amounts, and for them, we're talking tens of millions of dollars, are easy money to replace. place. It's why when a coach sucks, you should immediately fire him. Paying a guy $10, 20, $30 million to go away when he's not the guy is always the right move. And listen, it's also worth the risk

of playing him if he's good. So I would play him. He's got to be healthy to play him, but I think it's worth the risk even financially because of what you could potentially get back. Appreciate everyone listening. Fire in those DMs at John Middlough in the Instagram and we will talk soon. Adios. The volume. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier.

This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show.

This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok's podcast network on TikTok. This is an IHeart podcast, guaranteed human.