The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 3 and Out - NFC West Arms Race; Draft QB Intangibles; Pro Day Overreaction; MNF Flex Lifeline; Mailbag

Episode Date: March 30, 2021

In this episode, John explains why the hyper-competitive NFC West forced the Niners to take a big swing and move up to the #3 pick, why draft QB intangibles matter so much, why pro days are more important for learning about a player's personality than his on-field performance, why the NFL allowing ESPN to flex out the MNF game is a huge improvement under the new TV deal, and answers listener questions in the Middlekauff Mailbag. Follow John on Twitter and SUBSCRIBE now to get all the latest content!! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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What is going on, everybody, John Middlecopf, three-in-out podcast. Back at it again, the numbers were good on the little emergency podcast over the weekend. Thanks everyone for listening. I always say got a hammer at home. Just part of the deal. Subscribe to the Three and Out podcast. Would greatly appreciate that. Separate from Collins' feed, if you like what we're doing here.

Also, leave a review Apple iTunes. Thanks. We keep growing there too. It helps us sell the podcast. And a lot going on. A lot of thoughts. Some more thoughts on the trade, pro days, something just with rookie quarterbacks. Monday Night Football is now flexible.

of course the Middlecoff mailbag at John Middilcoff is my Instagram slide in the DMs and we'll answer your question here on the podcast. Okay, let's start with the NFC West. And a wise man once said you are the company you keep. And the older you get,

I think it's fair to say we all would agree. It's very true. I follow like some business accounts on Instagram just like business slash motivation or whatever. and they just have, you know, interesting nuggets. I read one within the last week that if you show me a person's three or four closest friends and tell me what they do and how much they make,

I can tell you what that person makes because typically you surround yourself with people who are on your level, right? If you make millions of dollars, you tend to hang out with other millionaires. If you make $50,000 a year, you're probably not hanging out with Jeff Bezos. There are probably some flaws we could nitpick this little post that I saw, but the more I thought

about it, the more I think is probably pretty true. And I started thinking, God, I need to get some richer friends. Maybe I've become, maybe I can draft off them. But you are motivated by the people around you, right? If you have a very close-knit family and your brothers and sisters are doing big things, it typically might inspire you to do big things. Same with your close friends group. If they're aggressive people,

if whatever they do for a profession, if they bring you along and help prop you up, it can change the course of your life. It's why I try to surround myself with positive people because it's easy for me to be really negative. And if I'm around a bunch of negative people, it feels like misery. And there's just a lot of truth to it.

And you are motivated by whoever you're competing against in whatever industry you're in, but definitely whoever you're surrounded by. And the NFC West, the 49ers, who just made this historic trade, right, giving pick 12, two other first rounders and a third round pick, to not move up to one or two, but to move up to number three, I think was greatly influenced by their division. If you look at Seattle over the last decade, I think they take a lot of heat for their hit or misdrafting, which is true.

But the one thing I've always said about good teams, it is much, easier to draft in the top 10. Like the Jacksonville Jags for years. It's like, oh, they're hitting on all these picks. Yeah, they're drafting at the top of the round. And it's not just the first round. It's the second round, it's the third round. When you draft at the end of the first round,

when you're Seattle and you go to the playoffs every year and you're drafting in the mid to late 20s, that carries over in the second round, the third round, the fourth round. It's hard to pick good players when you're not getting the pick of the litter in each round. It's difficult. But the one thing they've consistently hung their hat on over the years

is they get up and they take massive swings. They trade it for Percy Harvin. They traded for Jimmy Graham and they just recently did it with Jamal Adams. Now you can say those trades didn't work out. It was too much to pay. Regardless of what you think of the individual moves, you have to respect their desire

to try to land great players and try to get elite premium you know, difference-making athletes on their squad that they would never have the chance to draft. And those type guys don't, Jimmy Graham in his prime, and Jamal Adams in his prime, do not hit free agency.

I respect it. The L.A. Rams over the last five or six years, I guess since Sean McVeigh's been there, so going on year five, have done nothing but be ultra-aggressive. And I would say the last 12 months has capped that off. They traded two first-rounders and a second-rounder for Jalen Ramsey,

then extended them, and then this off-season, kicked Jared Goff to the curb by trading two more first rounders to get Matt Stafford. They actually, to me, has kind of jumped Seattle on the ultra-aggressive team in the division. And then the Cardinals, within the last two years, draft Josh Rosen number 10, within a year, kick his ass to the curb, take Kyler Murray. A year later, they spend a much of money on JJ Watt. They go land, you know, A.J. Green. They're just very aggressive.

They trade for Hopkins. they kind of followed all these teams lead. If you want to succeed in this division, you have to be willing to get in the batters box and be okay striking out because you're swinging to hit a 450 foot home run. And I'd say historically the Niners with Harbaugh and Balke and now with Lynch and Chanahan,

playing it safe is probably the wrong word, but they have been very, very careful with risk. You know why? Because one of their driving forces in the organization Parag Marate is really, really good with economics. He is one of the smarter guys in the league when it comes to contracts, when it comes to draft value. He's excellent at that.

And I think your natural inclination when you're like that is to just play it a little safer and just try to manipulate the game because you think you can find better deals than the people that are overpaying. And for the most part, that is a healthy way to operate. But when you're around three other teams in your division, which you play six times a year,

year who if they were investors, they'd be like, they're constantly invested in the next Facebook, the next Uber, the next Amazon. It's like, well, eventually some of these guys are going to hit and they are going to be billionaires and they're going to pass you by. And I think this offseason factored in with Kyle Shanahan just watching his team that had just made it to the Super Bowl was when five minutes of winning the Super Bowl crumble this year, not because their defense wasn't good enough, it was, not because they didn't have enough offensive weather. weapons. They did, but because the quarterback missed 10 games and thought, listen, when Jimmy was healthy, we're fine, our team has to be great, but if he's healthy, we can be competitive.

But here's what I know, I can't depend on him. And they said today when John Lynch and Kyle Shanahan talked in a press conference, they admitted to paying a premium. They said, we knew we had to pay a premium to move up early and we thought it was worth it. And eventually, if you're, you know, this operation that values, you know, always trying to do to buy things at a lower cost. Right. The Niners love finding deals. They love landing Trent Williams for a third round pick. They love trading backup in the first round and getting Joe Staley.

They love getting Jimmy Garapolo for a second round pick. They've never been the team that's had to trade multiple first round picks to go get there, Patrick Mahalms or Deshawn Watson. And the one time they had the opportunity to draft him, first year, they took Solomon Thomas, and those two guys went after, and they missed on them both. And now they're looking at this quarterback class going, there's a lot of talent. Trey Lance, Justin Fields, Zach Wilson, like these guys, I think, if I'm Kyle Shanahan, I go, I can turn one of these guys into a star.

Whichever one falls to us at three, and who I like the most, I'm going to turn them into a stud. But I got to pay, you know, basically the equivalent of like, you know, two, million dollars right now for a million dollar home today i didn't just overpay i drastically overpaid to get from 12 to 3 because i had to and it was worth it but i think it's easier to stomach that when everyone around you like i said you are the company you keep you you just look at seattle you look at the ramps that that is the bar in your division listen i don't think cliff kingsbury is a very good head coach but kind the roster kimes put together they have a lot of difference-making players. We'll see if Kyler can maintain through a season, but that was a pretty

shrewd move. Buda Baker's a stud, Hopkins a stud. They got dudes. They got dudes. And to be a consistently competitive team, you got to land a star quarterback. That's the only way in the NFL to sustain winning is star quarterback play. It's why Aaron Rogers is won for a decade. It's why Russell Wilson has won for a decade. It's why the Chiefs are going to, as long as Patrick Mahomes, their quarterback, is going to keep winning. If Josh Allen keeps playing like that, the bills are going to win every freaking year. The Niners, like, had a bad season.

Then their defense was unreal and their offense was solid and they won, but then their offense wasn't as good and they lost. You got to hit the home run in the quarterback. And I really think they were inspired by these other teams in their division. Because if they did not get aggressive, they were going to get lapped. especially this offseason with the Rams, where out of nowhere, I thought, you know, I bet the Niners land Matt Stafford.

And then you know what happened? They didn't because the Rams got him. And they gave multiple first-round picks. And that had to rattle the cages internally a little bit, even if the Niners weren't dead set on getting Stafford, just going, that's who we're competing against. That is the bar they are setting down there in L.A. and Kyle Shanahan has beat the Rams four times in a row.

The last two years, they've swept the Rams. A big reason they have done that is because their front seven has been awesome and they can pressure Jared Gough and Jared Gough can't move. And he became a sitting duck against the Niners. Matt Stafford can move and Matt Stafford is dramatically more talented and going to be able to make throws that Gough can't make. So they're looking at each other going, we got to up the ante. We need to be able to hang offensively with Russell Wilson and now Matt Stafford and even

Kyler Murray. And they did it. And they admitted they paid a premium to move up early. And we're just, you know, the great part about moves like this is we're all fascinated on how this is going to play out. No one knows, including them. And that's part of making a risky investment. That's part of taking a swing professionally.

How many of you guys have moved jobs? on kind of a gut feeling, an educated gut feeling. Like you know a guy at another company or you know a guy that wants to partner up and you're like, you know, or you know a guy that wants to do a deal and you're like, you know, I just felt in my gut this was right. And sometimes in your gut is based on previous experiences,

how long you've been in an industry, how well you know a guy, where you know the future is headed in a given market, but you're like, I just, we need to do this based on your other competition in your industry. I think that all factored in. and sometimes you can't quantify everything and no one knows when you leave a job to go to another job

I just played golf with a buddy a couple weeks ago an Ivy League guy played baseball really intelligent has crushed it in the Bay Area forever in finance he just left a job and he's like yeah it's risky you know that's part of the deal but I feel big picture I'm changing companies it's going to benefit me greatly not just financially but emotionally I think this company's a little more stable and I'm going to be able to do great things there

But I don't know. Like, it may not turn out well. That's the risk in anything. Anytime you invest, whether it be a lot of money in a company, in the stock market, whether it be all these picks and a quarterback, you're keeping your fingers crossed. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next, we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right what you need to be.

Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to? Do a little kill. Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast.

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out of the guys not named Trevor Lawrence, but the highest floor, pocket quarterback. We know what he's going to look like. The other three guys, Zach Wilson, Justin Fields, and Trey Lands. I've watched a lot of Zach Wilson and Justin Fields this fall. Watch some highlights and YouTube of Treylands.

All these guys have the, more than the baseline physical skills to be a stud NFL quarterback. Turns out Zach Wilson is 6-2-215, way bigger than I thought. And way bigger than a lot of people in the NFL thought. We know Justin Fields and Trey Lance 6-3, 6-4, 215, 2-20, both really fast. Both big arms.

Zach has a big arm too. They all have all the baseline skills that it takes to be a good NFL quarterback. They check that box. The reason guys fail in the NFL, succeed or don't, rarely has to do with physical skills. Most of the quarterbacks getting drafted, really high in the NFL, have the minimum physical skills it takes to be a good player. Some are closer to the line of average, but I think this group, like, it turns out Marcus

Marietta, you know his arm was just kind of average and he wasn't that accurate. But ultimately, he failed because it might have been the organization. We don't totally know. I mean, his story's not written. Like James's story's not written. Carson Went's story's not written. Jared Goff's story's not written. I think we write guys off or anoint guys.

like, who knows? I thought Deshawn Watson was going to go to the Hall of Fame. I read this article on Sports Illustrated about this unnamed massage therapist. And listen, I never like to pick sides on something I don't know. It didn't read very well. It didn't read like, I'm feeling confident Deshaun Watson's playing this year. Now, again, he said, she said, we'll see how it all plays out, but things change fast in the league.

And that's obviously something off the field. Deshawn had the physical characteristics. But even DeShan coming out, people I know in the league who are not good at their job, great at their job, who have rings on their finger, questioned Deshaun Watson's arm strength. And once he started playing, you realize it was more than good enough.

But the reason Lawrence, Wilson, Lance, Fields, these guys are going to succeed or fail, are not going to be because they're not fast enough because they can't make the throws. It's going to be things that you have no clue what they're truly going to be like until you get them. The number one question when you scout and you go into a school you ask,

or I mean one of the big questions is, how does the guy treat people, right? And I'm not talking about his head coach. I'm saying, like, how does he treat the equipment manager? How does he treat the, you know, the academic advisor? How does he treat the random ADs that are around that he doesn't, you know, need to be that nice to? Right. So it's the intangible stuff on how a guy carries himself, how he operates around his teammates,

how much respect he naturally garners from just being the dude. then there are things that are going to be hard with Justin Fields. Like, what's the biggest adversity Justin Fields has ever had to go through? Yeah, he's like, he had to transfer from Georgia. Yeah, to Ohio State. I mean, it's like, that's kind of a first class problem. It's like, you know, Joe Burrow went from Ohio State to LSU. Yeah, it's like, yeah, they're like equals.

So like none of most of these guys, like Mac Jones, you know, he just couldn't beat out Tua, who was the fifth pick in the draft. None of them have really been through adversity. Trey Lance won your starting. They won the national championship. He didn't lose a game. In the NFL, you lose. It's the thing we always ask about Urban Meyer.

Like, what's going to, Urban Meyer is used to winning, like going 13 and 1 every season. In the NFL, you could make the playoffs in 2021 with seven losses probably. 10 and 7, 17 game season. I think about you lose seven games. And hell, you might be the 6 seed. So the intangible stuff, I have no clue how you're going to handle true adversity. Losing, which is inevitable in the NFL. And then there's an element of like real money.

You know, even if the guys are getting paid under the table in college, what happens once you start getting the direct deposit $25 million signing bonus when you're the first, second or third overall pick? You have an unlimited amount of money. Like anything you want, you can buy. Maybe like, middle cough, like you can't buy an island. Yeah, I get that. I mean like, you want a house, you want a car, you want to go on a trip, you want to fly a girl out.

There's nothing you can't do that you would want to do at 22, 23 years old that you will not have the money to do. And we all know these people and anyone that comes into money early, I can't imagine being a millionaire when I was 22. I wouldn't have known what to do. I'd have no clue. I could argue I'm not claiming to be a millionaire now, but. maturity, it helps you handle money the older you get, right? In theory. Most of us, speaking from a male's point of view,

I give kids a lot of credit, professional athletes, musicians, a tech startup guy, if you make millions upon millions of dollars in your early 20s and you handle it well, you're an impressive individual. And that's the thing you just can't, that there is no way to tangibly quantify how it'll impact a kid until you actually sign him.

And then once he gets in the building, there is a pressure that comes, right? If you're Trevor Lawrence, you're the number one pick in the draft. You're getting compared to other number... Andrew Luck, John Elway, Peyton Manning. Like, that's a heavy burden to carry around with you. Whoever the 49ers draft,

we just traded away three number one picks for you. Three number one picks for you. And we have Super Bowl expectations. Get ready, kid. Oh, yeah, this franchise also had Steve Young and Joe Montana. So the two top ten quarterbacks of all time.

That's who the franchise, that's the way most fans kind of view what they're looking for in a quarterback. Fair or not. I mean, that's just a reality. And there are so many questions, like Drew Brees said, being an NFL quarterback,

it's like 70-30. It's 30 percent. physical and 70% mental. Are you willing to work coaches hours? This is not a 9 to 5 job. You don't get off days. Tuesday the off day is a workday for quarterbacks. Monday,

the off day for the delinmen and the wide receivers is a workday for quarterbacks. It is a working man's position. I remember texting someone with the chiefs like a month ago. And I was like, what are you guys doing? He's like, yeah, we're just going through draft meetings. And he was like, yeah, the coaches are on vacation. I'm like, so it's just you got the scouts in.

Yeah, he's just like, just the scouts and I saw Mahomes earlier today getting a lifted, watching some film. It's like, oh, yeah, people think Mahomes just great because he's a freak talent. No, he's outworking everybody. Peyton Manning, Tom Brady. I mean, just Russell Wilson might be cheesy,

but he works extremely hard at his craft. Right? Aaron Rogers, like, I don't think he's just showing up to work and just slinging it around. There's a lot of time and effort that goes in there. Josh Allen, think how long he's worked to improve these last three years. You know my favorite attribute about Lamar Jackson? It's not even his speed, which is elite.

I mean, you might be the fastest quarterback in the history of the sport. It's how every time he gets criticized, it's like, yeah, I deserve that. I wasn't good enough. Nobody cares work harder. It's like, God, is this one of the most coachable guys in the league? And I clearly, whether it was fair or not, I don't think people viewed him that way coming out. And it's, I think, a huge reason he's having a bunch of success. All these guys I'm listening, they're intangibles,

You can say Rogers gets a little big head or whatever, but so does Russell. I mean, Tom Brady, you can have an ego, but they're in tandem. All the boxes are checked. And those are the things that these quarterback is ultimately going to determine whether these guys are bused or not bus.

Like, ultimately, Mitch Trubisky just can't handle the football workload. He tries, but he just can't handle the playbook. He's just short circuits. Like, you can't measure that. Like, in practice, it's good. Right? It's like he can tell you when he's sitting over the whiteboard

and then the game happens, he's just short circuits. Like, I don't see it. Like, you just don't know until you get your hands on coaching the guy, until you're around him every day. And maybe it happens, like, you throw a bad pick. The next game it comes back, you see it, and you don't pull the trigger,

and you go to your other option, and you throw a touchdown. Like, can you build off stuff? And it's hard to know that with all these guys coming out of college. So all these guys in the draft, besides maybe Mac Jones, and even Mac Jones has the, like, he has the physical tools to be cousins or something. These guys are not going to fail or succeed because of their physical attributes. It's all going to be, in my opinion, based on intangible stuff.

And we just, we ain't going to find out. We ain't going to know until we actually see them go through hard times in the NFL. And it's going to be, like I said, with the Niners move, it's going to be awesome watching all these quarterbacks get drafted because it's clear a lot of guys are going to go high. I saw a clip, I think on Instagram of Coward, making fun of everyone that got so excited about Zach Wilson's

Pro Day, even though he did make this one sweet throw when he was like rolling left, slung it back down like the middle of the field across the hashes, it was an awesome throw. But he is right, like it's on air. You know, this guy's viewed as the number two player in the draft, like he should be able to do that. I think we overvalue just how cool it looks

with quarterbacks at Pro Days. Like if you have big time physical skills, Trevor Lawrence, a Zach Wilson, a Justin Fields, a Tray Lance, a Justin Herbert, or whoever, you're going to dominate the pro day. I mean, absolutely dominate the pro day. It's like, if you're an extroverted person, I bet interviewing is a lot easier than it is for an introverted person. A pro day is there for a guy with physical skills to dominate.

But as I once read in a book, it was something about the Patriots. I remember Lewis showed it to me. Louis Riddick. It was like Belichick had this famous quote like, we don't pay guys millions of dollars to run the 40 or bench press 225. We pay them to play football. It's the one sport like, if I'm drafting a center fielder, like Kyler Murray coming out, and I want to put him through a workout, I can have a pitcher, throw him basically alive, you know, at bat, assimilate a dude throwing 95 miles an hour and who has a good curveball. I can kind of get a gauge like,

What a swing looks like? How he handles off-speed stuff. In basketball, I can play five-on-five games. I can play one-on-one games. In football, unless, without pads, it's a completely different sport. But physical freaks dominate drills because they stand out. They have good testing numbers. They're explosive.

If they have good arms, the ball flies far. It is set up for them to succeed. The smartest guy in your building might be an introvert that doesn't do well talking to people, right? You would never ask that guy to go close a sales meeting, right? That's not his cup of tea. Go to a social setting. But if your product was some technology-based, whatever,

and he was your coder, your company can't operate with that fucking guy, right? Just like in your defense, you have a 350-pound nose tackle who everything kind of revolves around, right? A Danny Shelton type might not look, and I'm not saying Danny Shelton's that great, Vita Vaya, might not look. look that, probably a better example, better, you know, it's not going to look that great in a pro day setting.

He's kind of lumpy, he's not that fast. Put some pads on him, try to move him. Bet you can't. Bet you won't. Everyone has a role. And I think sometimes at Pro Day things get overvalued. I would imagine this year too because teams didn't play a full schedule. Like I talked about the quarterbacks a little earlier,

the three or four top guys, Zach Wilson, Trey Lance, and Justin Fields have elite physical characteristics. They're fast. even it turns out Zach Wilson's well put together. They have big arms. They're going to crush the pro day setting. The thing you've got to find out at the pro day,

especially this year, because the NFL scouting community was not allowed into NFL facilities in the fall. They had a universal rule no one was allowed to go to school calls. So right now, this pro day circuit is about accumulating information. Like I said, how does he treat people? What do his teammates think? How do the coaches like them?

The problem I have, and I would struggle with as a scout, and hopefully you did as much work possible during the fall, but it was hard to get a hold of guys because they were working on their season, right? Phone calls, text messages, it's all going to be based on previous relationships. And I noticed this, and any good scout will tell you this. Sometimes your best information comes at the heat of the season. Because everything's raw.

The emotions are real, right? A coach might tell you on a Tuesday after a game. game, you know, I thought the guy kind of tapped out. Or, you know, I thought the guy, he had a bad injury and he played through it. His toughness was elite. You're just getting emotion that's like, real, that just happened. Think about the way our memories work. If something happened yesterday, I can talk about it pretty well today. But if something happened six months ago, my view of that thing may get a little jaded, may just change over time from what reality actually was. So the information, if you're meeting a coordinator, a position coach, in the middle of March,

and asking about something that happened in September or October, you're just probably going to get a story that wouldn't be consistent with the same story he might have told you on October 1st, 2020. That's what I make, these pro-day circuits are all about gathering the medical information. And I think I read in Albert Brewer's MMQB today that the NFL is going to do like 150 to 200, people like a medical checkup in early April. You know, the Jalen Waddles, guys that have been injured are going to go there just to get medical checks that haven't been able to do that because the combine didn't exist, which

helps. But the character stuff and the competitive character stuff and the football character stuff, I just wonder if it's going to be hit or miss. In my first year on the road, I didn't know that many people. I had to rely on Reggie Cobb, rest in peace, who was a 49ers West Coast Scout who passed away couple years ago, who I had known through Fresno State, he was just one of the coolest fucking dudes who was just so cool to me, who was so gracious to me, who was always helping me out. And if you are, the guys that have been on the road for a long time that have legit

contacts with coaches, they were able to get the raw information during the season. If you're shooting, you know, Oregon or Alabama's offensive coordinator, an email on a Tuesday of a game week, maybe you didn't hit you back. But if you have his tech, if you have his cell phone number and you've known him for five years and you can just shoot him a text, your information is going to be pretty good. And you're going to feel a lot more comfortable in the meetings right now when you're going over all these players. Because that's what's happening right now. Is this pro day circuit is kind of slowing down? You're having your draft meetings. And you're going over more than just can the guy play or not. You're going over, do we want them in the building?

How does he act? How tough is he? Because that's the thing about football. There is a toughness element that you can't quantify. I can figure out how high you jump. I can figure out how strong you are. I can figure out how explosive you are, like your 10-yard split on the 40. But when push comes to shove and you're 75% and you're in the game of the year,

are you the guy that you've got to drag off the field? Are you one of the first guys that looks at the coach and says you need to blow? Because ultimately, that determines elite guys and non-elite guys in the NFL, right? how tough they are, how bad they want it, how their desire, how competitive they are when they are, you know, in the line of fire.

And it's hard to get that information in the true sense of the word in the off-season. And part of the draft process, why it gets a little weird is there's paralysis by analysis. You have a lot of time on your hands, you overthink things, and you get information that can run counter to the information that you got during the fall.

and listen, maybe I get pushed back on this by different people in the league. I know the people I've been around with always feel the most comfortable, the true information they get in the heat of battle, right? During the season, tends to be pretty good. Because come February and March, you know who it behooves for that program to give you more positive information, the negative information? The program and that head coach.

Because the higher that guy gets drafted, the more bulletin board material they have, when the recruits walk in, the more stuff they can tweet out and Snapchat out and TikTok out about their guys getting drafted in the first or second round. They don't want a guy to draft, you know, follow the fourth or fifth round if they think they can help the guy get drafted in the second round. So you start getting information that can mislead you. And if you haven't been doing this long enough or your contact is in this wrong,

you cannot feel as comfortable with where the information is coming from. And then your GM's asking you because you're the boots on the ground, which this year, like I said, is really hard because you actually weren't allowed to go. And then plus, I think the most fascinating part about this draft class is that on some weeks, maybe if like Ohio State played a game, what if they didn't practice all week? Like the scouts that were really detail-oriented,

and listen, we all know these people that work in every office, work in every group setting, that are just like mind-blowing with details. And then they're like, I'm not, I would, wouldn't say I'm a great detail guy. I can get the job done. I'm an instinct feel guy, but I've been around people who's just, whose pinpoint accuracy with every detail is mind-blowing. Now, we have different strengths and weaknesses, but the people, the scouts that were like that, the college directors that were like that, are going to have a big, big point of difference this

year. Because if you're trying now or the off-season to figure out, like, what days they practice, this week they didn't practice, this week, you know, three of his office, offensive linemen had COVID and he was playing with backups. That's why he looked so shitty. It's going to be impossible. There's no way you're going to be able to accumulate that information. But if you were on the ball in the fall, then you're going to have to talk out these scenarios in these draft meetings.

And even then, like, okay, he was missing two of his wide receivers. Does that excuse him for playing well? Do you give him more credit if he actually played well and he was missing guys? I'm telling you, I think of all the drafts that I've been covering slash working around and just following the NFL. This is easily the craziest. Just because a stat I read earlier today, Justin Fields has played in 22 games.

Mack Jones and Trey Lance, or 17. Think about that. Justin Fields has started 22 games. Mac Jones and Trey Lance have started 17. That is not large sample sizes. Think how many games Trevor Lawrence has started. It's been a three-year starter. That's a lot of games.

You have a lot of information on it. Justin Herbert had been a four-year starter at Oregon. Joe Burrow, right? At least he had started back-to-back years at LSU, and you just saw the maturation, you saw the improvement. Justin Fields has just, it feels like infinitely more tape relative to like Trey Lance. Trey Lance, who just watches some clips,

he's clearly really talented. It's a major projection. And here's the thing, if we just assume Trevor, I mean we don't have to assume Trevor Lawrence is going to one. I think when the dust settles, Zach Wilson's going to go to. Then the next group of Trey Lance,

Justin Fields, who I would take in a heartbeat over Mac Jones because they have a way higher ceiling. The one thing I hear... Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

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I don't care which I'll say. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became. bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast.

It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast.

I'm Sam Jett. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s.

To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line.

We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games.

And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Trip Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch.

Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross. Because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person.

Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way. Open your free, our heart radio app. Search Learn the Hard Way and listen now. You hear about those two guys and Mack Jones, they check all the boxes off the field. Like high character guys, they love football, they're hard workers, they're great teams. they're great teammates. I think it's easier to differentiate when one guy's kind of a slap.

This guy's kind of a dick. This guy doesn't treat people well. It's like, okay, it's easy to stack my board. Like, I ain't dealing with that. Which I think sometimes can be overvalued at other positions. Right, there's been a lot of questionable characters that dominate at wide receiver,

a defensive line, at guard, at safety. But with quarterback, that really matters. I mean, let's face it, you're really looking for like Mahomes or Tom Brady if you're drafted in the top two or three. you're looking for the total package, the face of your franchise, franchise that are worth three to four to five billion dollars, this guy is the face of the entire operation.

And if he's good, your franchise jolts into just a dominant cash printing mechanism. And you could argue it already is because even teams that lose in the NFL make money. But when you win big, you become the New England Patriots for 20 years. So if you do land the quarterback or even Seattle, they've only won, or for the Packers, you know, two Super Bowls combined, right? Those two franchises the last decade. And think how dumb, think of what Russell Wilson and Aaron Rogers have meant to those two teams. If you get it right, it's a wrap, it's over.

But there's so much that goes into it. And I think this pro day circuit, everyone's trying to figure out these guys off the field, what they're wired like, what they're like. Because even when you get the information, and Mack Jones, he's a great character. Like, you really need to dig deep. Because if there's any question mark, I thought Carson Wentz forever was like the highest character, Hardest Worker Blue Collar guy. Then it turns out he's kind of a drama queen.

Doesn't really like getting coached hard. You want to avoid that. It turns out Jared Goff's a little soft. And you don't truly know until you get them, until you go through sub-adversity. So it's like I'm not putting in any stock these pro days, these guys throwing at 90 yards. Who cares?

They all got big arms. To me, it's all about figuring out the off-the-field stuff. Are you an architect, contractor, or engineer looking for more knowledge about energy efficiency? Here's your opportunity to fuel your future. PG&E's energy centers offer more than 500 free online classes. Get practical insights, continuing education credits, and prepare for a range of certifications. From industry experts through live webinars or over 80 on-demand classes, enroll at pge.com slash training.

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Visit AdoptuSKids.org slash podcast or subscribe to navigating adoption presented by Adopt U.S. Kids. Brought to you by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services Administration for Children and Families and the Ad Council. Okay, I was reading today that the NFL, and they deserve credit on this one, is going to allow Monday night football, weeks 12 through 17, because they've been doing it forever on Sunday night football, which is easier because you just take an afternoon or morning game and you move it to the night. The day doesn't change. But they're going to start flex scheduling Monday night football. And for a long time, if you read between the lines or did any research on this,

the NFL was basically throwing two middle fingers at ESPN. Because earlier in this decade, and really beside like the last couple years, ESPN, a large portion of their, I don't know, staff, many of their personalities, like kind of stake their career and like their point of difference in their space was talking shit about the NFL 24-7-365. Now, some of these issues, it would be hard to disagree with something didn't add up, right? Whether it was the Ray Rice video, like how they saw that and they suspended them two games. The Tom Brady's suspension is one of the dumbest thing that ever happened.

And Tom Brady, remember ESPN and the Bray. to deflategate. There have been moments where it felt like ESPN was hurting their own partner by giving them crappy games. And I think the last couple of years, the ESPN got a new president. And now they are benefiting from a repaired relationship. And the NFL's smart. Like, it doesn't behoove you.

Listen, I'm probably naturally pretty petty. I'd imagine many people can be petty. It's probably a natural reaction for most human beings when you feel, you've been wronged when you feel you got screwed over. Like most people, if you get fired or dumped, you know, the first reaction is not going to be to root for those people's future success. But if you're in a relationship or you're in a partnership, even if you don't see eye-to-eye, it does serve both parties to do as well of a job or most beneficial to both people, to both sides.

And for a while, it almost felt like the NFL was trying to screw over ESPN with crap games, which I don't totally blame them. Like, if I was Roger Goodell, every time I turned on that channel, it was someone that I think is a clown talking shit about me. I would probably have done the same thing. But you get to the point where you're going to renegotiate this television deal, and you go, listen, we got to give a little back. We're going to charge them double what they've been paying.

Let's make our product better. Who benefits if there are better games on Monday Night Football? Not just ESPN, the league. More people watch. It's beneficial for the overall business. And clearly both sides, you know, ESPN, like, they try to act, like, are they still a journalistic institution? Or are they just an entertainment, you know, trying to show games? Let's just, let's be real where we're at in modern day society.

You just want the best games to get the most people viewing your channel so you can sell advertiser. And if you're the NFL, all you care about is the best games are on. in prime time, whether that's Thursday night for Bezos now, Sunday night for NBC, and even the National Fox and CBS games in the afternoon window are big, and obviously Monday night football. Now, times are dramatically different than when I was a kid in the 90s, but I still get nostalgic about Monday night football. When I was growing up in my junior high elementary and high school years, it was a big freaking deal to watch Monday night football. and maybe it'll never be the same.

But the reason Sunday night football now feels like the regular season Super Bowl every week because it's usually a massive game. And then once you get to the halfway point of the season, they start flexing out the crappy games. Because really when you put together a season schedule and you put teams on prime time, you're guessing, right? But every year there are injuries,

every year there are teams that kind of come out of nowhere that become good. And you've got to change. And that's where flex scheduling for Sunday night is come in clutch. You're typically getting really good games in November and December with Alan Chris, soon to be Toriko and Drew Breeze. Like I said, you hear it here first. I've been saying this for like a year.

Now with Monday night, it makes a lot of sense. Early on in the season, you can basically show anything on Monday night football, right? Everyone's playing hard, it's good. But later in the year, especially with the added game, it is a big deal to look up and go, oh, you know, the Browns at 10 and 4 are playing, you know, the Colts at 9 and 4. that feels a lot bigger than sometimes you turn it on you got two three win teams in November you're like this kind of sucks

do I really want to watch this and I give the credit to the NFL and ESPN both swallowing their pride and realizing that we both need to use each other to benefit because right now this pissing contest of us being petty with you giving you crappy games you guys talking shit about us 24-7-365 is not a great working relationship

We both, well, ESPN needs the NFL probably a lot more than the NFL needs ESPN, but it's an easy one. They have a big distribution channel. They obviously have ABC that they can always use, and clearly they're going to get Super Bowls. It can be a mutually beneficial partnership. And I think it's a good learning experience for all of us. Like, I try, and again, when I say I'm a negative person naturally, maybe it's genetics, maybe whatever it is, I've had to teach and program myself to become a positive person as I've gotten older. and I'll never forget Colin's first book

It's crazy Like a decade ago I was reading Collins book Now I work with him and text with him Shows you you know anything in life is possible I'm a big believer in that But you know Holding you know What was his thing

Holding a grudge is like chain smoking hate And that's essentially what being petty is right Routing for someone to succeed or fail Routing for people that you feel have screwed you over Now I get it if like Someone steals your life saving I don't expect for you to root for their success. But listen, if you have a breakup because for whatever reason you didn't like each other,

you have to go your separate ways, if you have to leave a job on bad terms, like just the quicker you get over it, the quicker it is to get on with your life and be successful. Same with both sides. And the NFL, they weren't going to go to another network. Like, they were going to stay with ABC and ESPN. And I just think that they found a way to make this work, and everyone's on the same page now. and they've really come a long way in the last four or five years

because no one led to charge harder than the NFL was going to fail, that the NBA was going to pass the NFL, that football was going to die, and the consumer has shown anything but the complete opposite. We not only love football, it's really the only thing we consistently consume at mass numbers. The other leagues, you combine them, they don't sniff football.

And don't get me wrong, like, I was reading the reports too. I even thought like, God, this is head down a slippery slope. Football's gotten stronger in the last five years, become much more popular. And now with the popularity and the more and more people get involved with gambling and with fantasy, I would imagine that number's only going to grow. Now, like I've said on previous podcasts, this might be as good as it gets for like the next decade. This might be the peak of the NFL's powers, but they're in the peak of their powers right now.

And ESPN and ABC had no choice. Like they couldn't let, you know, Monday night football go to like Netflix. But they had to pay whatever it kept to keep them. But they also needed some sort of givebacks. Like you got to allow us to flex schedule, which can be complicated, right? Because it's different day, hotels, and part of flex scheduling on Monday night is like multiple weeks out. And I'm fascinated to watch it, but I'm glad that it eventually happened. And we don't have to watch crappy games in November and December like we had the last several years.

Okay, let's get to the Biddlekopf mailbag. At John Middilkoff is the Instagram handle. You guys know the drill, slide right into the direct messages. And you get read on the show. I was actually just thinking, did the dolphins essentially traded back from three to six and got a first and a third round pick? Think about that.

Remember when the Jets traded the Colts from three to six, they flip-flop picks and they got three second rounders. So would you rather have three second rounders or would you rather have a first and a third? I think you'd rather have a first and a third. Now we'll see where it ends up, but in a roundabout way, that's how it worked. You know, obviously they got three first rounders. I hate saying three first rounders because that would insinuate the Niners gave three first rounders. No, the Niners and don't, and have three to zero.

Like when you go from 12 to three, like you get the third. pick. So I give you two additional first rounders. That's the way I always look at it. I get confused the other way. Question for the pod. My voice broke. I'm going through puberty. Conventional wisdom believes that Miami trading back to six means they are not drafting a quarterback and riding with two instead. What if the dolphins actually want Justin Fields and just to anticipate he's going to be available at six? Get extra picks and the quarterback they want. If that's the case, that'd be next thinking. I would be stunned if Justin Fields is there at six. I think Justin Fields will be gone at six. And one thing I think I've said on this pod, my other pod, I've said countless places that,

you know, they'll take Kyle Pitts, Jamar Chase, Devante Smith, Jalen Wattle, whoever they think the best skill guy is. The more I've thought about that, that goes against everything fundamentally I disagree with over the last couple years developing the middle cop draft philosophy. And it's really what you have to do to build a great team. You don't have to draft the skill guy right there. To me, the move and talking to a buddy in the league is like, why don't they draft an offensive lineman? Draft another tackle.

And then you got two tackles. You got Austin Jackson last year from USC and take Sewell or Slater, whoever falls. Take a sweet tackle. You win in the trenches. You have another first-round pick. Take a sweet skill guy with your later pick. That's what I'd do.

That's what I guess, you know, the Belichick school. would do. You take the big heavies. If they did draft a quarterback, that would be next level thinking. I play American football in the UK at university. When do you think the UK will get

its own team and how do you think this will look? That's a hell of a question. My guess is part of the new television rule today is every team in the NFL has to host an international

game in an eight-year span. So I don't know if that, I mean, you do the math. There's 32 teams, four times, four times eight's 32. So four teams a year are hosting games. And then you just kind of rotate. Is my math right? Yeah, four times eight is 32. So I think it's, if the league still humming in a, in a decade, maybe at the end of the decade, they move a team there would be my uneducated guess. I don't know. I mean, that's just, you know, from falling the league, it feels like they kind of want it. The 49ers moved to three because Kyle Shanahan and Robert Saw are good friends. They had a good chat and John Lynch made the move to three to select BYU, Zach Wilson.

Deshawn Watson is going to go to the Jets and Sam Donald with the Texans. I don't know about that on Deshawn Watson. I think he's got some issues. He's got to get cleared up. The Texans could have hired any young and up, any young and up-and-coming coach to run the franchise. but they chose a more experienced coach, who is much older than most of the recent head coaching hires. That's true.

There's something different about this hiring. Josh McCown's last season was with the Houston Texans. He's familiar in Houston, and maybe he wants to stay but as a coach. There's no state tax, more bang for your buck in Texas. Why not? Josh McCown's interview with the Texans earlier this season. He knows Sam Donald very well from their time together with the Jets.

I can see these two paired together in Houston. If this happens, I feel McCown will eventually be the head coach of Houston, Texans, and David Kelly can transition to an assistant coach. Thoughts. Once you become the head coach, like a Tom Sula, David Kelly, and even if you're overwhelmed or over your head, there's no becoming an assistant coach on that team. You get fired and you leave, and the new head coach comes in.

But I see what you're saying. I think Josh McCown, there's a chance he's the next head coach in a couple years. And Sam Darnold, they'd have to do that. now. Like Sam Darnold, you got to pick his fifth year option. You know, his free agency. I guess he would be a free agent in a couple years, but who knows? There's someone trades for him. Maybe he's good and they don't let him leave. So I think if they want Sam Donald, they got to go get him. The problem is Deshaun Watson like, is he going to get suspended? Because if the stuff, you know, his agent said, you know, be patient and everything. Like,

I never understand this. And listen, I've never been in trouble. Maybe I'm just, you know, too good of a guy. But if I was accused of doing something of that nature and I get, I've seen a million law and orders and shows involving lawyers and followed enough of this shit from afar, that the lawyer

always tells you to be quiet. Don't say anything. I don't, maybe I'm just nuts. If I was innocent, and especially if I'm Deshaal Watson, I'm reading the SI story today, that said I was like forcing her hand to touch me and hump in the bed,

and making the chick feel uncomfortable, I would come out with an Instagram or Twitter video. If I'm innocent, Colin, bullshit. I don't care what my lawyer is telling me. I would be pissed off. Now, I get it. That's not what you're supposed to do. I'd have a hard time being silent.

Just having my character drug through the mutt. Again, based on innocence. If you're guilty, and that's why all of us that don't know the law lingo, for those of you in the profession, It is confusing. It's why a lot of you guys charge a lot per hour because none of us know what the fuck's going on.

We need you guys for anything, let alone serious accusations, but just normal stuff. It's just very, very complicated. And I can't imagine, you know, it just becomes a he said, she said, and the people that are talking, you just kind of, the way the world works,

you just think they're guilty. I know it's like America innocent until proven guilty, but let's face it, with social media and just the way the news carries stuff, that's not really the way the world works. Because perception, everyone thinks like something shady is going on. Question for the pod.

Is there any chance Casario is the real deal in Houston? As a Texans fan, I'm optimistic that he's simply grinding despite the turmoil. But I also know it's way too early to prove anything. I just hope he can overcome the dysfunction that is Jack and Cal. Also, how long do you expect me to wait until my team is relevant again? Internet trolls are anointing us as the next Detroit Lions. They've been shitty for a long time, and you guys have made the playoffs, so you'd have to be pretty bad.

Here's your main problem. Cully's a nice guy. He's a really good assistant coach. I think it has a chance to be a complete disaster. It might not go well. And their team's not any good. And what if Deshawn, they can't trade him, but he gets suspended for the season.

And they got to pray with Tyrod Taylor. Like Tyrod Taylor, nice guy, hike. He's a better person than he is a player. He's a great person, average to below player. I mean, he's just, he's a good backup. And when I say a good backup, part of being a good backup is you never have to play. When you have to play, we got issues.

I just don't think they're very talented. You guys are going to stink. But if Casario's the real deal, you know, to me it all depends on the Deshawn Watson situation. Can he clear his name and then you trade him? Or does he get in trouble? And his career just is derailed. We'll have to wait and see.

I mean, like everyone, I don't have any fucking answers. Not really much of a Niners fan specifically. but you got to think Sala is Tiped Shanahan in terms of what he's doing it too, right? Assuming that's the case, might not be, but I heavily doubt it. Do you think this trade to three happens if Sala isn't the guy in the Jets building and they don't have the info channel of communication? Well, watching the Niners Press Conference today, here's what I believe. The Jets have been on the clock since the season ended because you knew Trevor Lawrence was going to.

It's pretty well established now that Zach Wilson is going to. Whether the Jets take them or whether. that they trade that pick and someone else takes them. So the 40-9ers, when they traded a three, they, to me, they 100% know who they're taking. It's either Justin Fields, Trey Lance, or Mac Jones. Obviously, the internet and people are pushing Mac Jones,

watching Kyle Shanahan say today, if you can pick from scratch, you always take the bigger, faster, stronger guy, right? So he was kind of insinuating one of the other two guys. I think that they end up going with Justin Fields or Trey Lance. one thing the Niners are going to do, they're going to keep very quiet about this. I think they really like that Chris Sims

and everyone's pushing Mac Jones. I see zero chance to take Mac Jones. So to me, they either knew they were taking Trey Lance or Justin Fields. I mean, they already know. Now, maybe over the next month, once they get to know them, maybe something changes, but I think

the moment they made the trade, they feel very, very confident. I guess you can't put it 100% lock because who knows, crazy things can happen, but I think they feel very, very good that they're going to be able to get the player they want at number three. And I'm sure they'll say that after the draft. But it is believable, because why would you trade up to three on a hope and a prayer? Longtime fan, and I'm only 14.

God, I love the younger demo. Can't wait till you're old enough to purchase all of our ad stuff. Keep grinding, young fella. What if the Browns don't like Baker Mayfield so they weigh? for Deshawn Watson lawsuit to blow over. Then they could trade them, Odo Beckham, John Johnson. I love young kids because they think of crazy trades, and a number of first-round picks for Deshawn Watson then started.

Yeah, I mean, it seems a little far-fetched. I think that I don't know if anyone knows what's going to happen to the Deshaun Watson situation. And I mean, I would imagine they just end up picking Baker-Mayfields, your option and just kind of go year to year. That would be my guess. I think pretty clear Baker Mayfield is going to be on the team for the next two years. It's coming into his fourth year. They'll pick up his fifth year option this offseason.

I didn't think they would, but he clearly played well enough around the stretch or down the stretch. I'm still lukewarm on him, but I am prepared to be wrong. I don't think he's ever going to be some elite guy, but he clearly can be like a Kirk Cousins type quarterback if the team is stacked, and they are pretty stacked. someone sent me doesn't seem like you're a big hockey guy but I feel like you'd appreciate this

and it's just a video from 1996 of just brawls happening in hockey yeah not a huge hockey guy and not because I'm like anti the sport I think they are the craziest toughest dudes in sports I just when I watch it doesn't do that much for me

now playoff hockey the intensity is awesome but just a regular season game doesn't really get my juices flowing. Maybe it's because I'm a California guy. I don't know. When I lived in Philly, they really liked the flyers. That's all I got. You know, enjoy the week.

Maybe I'll get a guest for later this week. We'll see. We'll see how the week it goes. We'll just keep grinding. And yeah, talk to you guys Friday. Peace. Do you design, engineer, build, or maintain buildings in California?

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Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Cliford Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Cliford Show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcast,

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