The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 3 and Out - NFL Combine Reaction, Top Prospects, Risers/Fallers, QB Class

Episode Date: March 7, 2022

John reacts to the NFL Combine, including why its time to move the combine to L.A., why Notre Dame's Kyle Hamilton is worthy of a top 5 pick, how much Georgia DT Jordan Davis' freakish 40 will help his draft stock, the biggest question marks surrounding Michigan's Aidan Hutchinson and Oregon's Kayvon Thibodeaux, and if QB's in a weak QB class are worth a first round pick.Follow John and The Volume on Twitter, Instagram and YouTube for the latest content and updates and check out FanDuel for the best wagering and daily fantasy action! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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so they know we sent you. What is going on, everybody? John Middlecock, three and out podcast Sunday night. Had to fire up the old microphone, the old computer, because the combine just happened, and we're going to do a pretty combine heavy podcast. It's going to be shorter like we typically did during the season, Sunday night, some thoughts on Kyle Hamilton,

who actually has a podcast on this network inside the garage for some of his buddies that he plays with at Notre Dame, Jordan Davis, the big defensive tackle from Georgia, had one of the most impressive things we'd ever seen. A couple thoughts on the two top pass rushers, Aidan Hutchinson and Kavon Tibado, Michigan and Oregon pass rushers, and then just some overall takes on the quarterback.

But here's going to be the schedule. Today's going to be a Combine Heavy Pod. Tomorrow, my Monday podcast, which will come out Tuesday, will be much more free agency stuff, all the buzz from the actual movement in the league, non-draft-wise. It'll be heavy on that for Tuesday. We're going to have a golf podcast come out Wednesday. Sobel comes on there, talk golf gambling.

No big deal made about two Gs today gambling on the Arnold Palmer. The players this week fired up. I mean, it's biggest person in the history of the PGA tour. And then we'll have another podcast Friday, which is going to lead into the weekend that's going to start obviously all the, you know, the buzz for free agency. And we'll just keep it rolling. We will just keep it rocking and rolling. And up until football, you know, we'll get some movement in a week.

You know, we're going to find out this week, Aaron Rogers, you know, Russell Wilson, a lot of Derek Carbuzz. We've got a lot of moving parts. So subscribe to the podcast. I haven't mentioned this in a while. But if you could do this, I'd greatly appreciate it. Leave a review. I know a lot of you have.

It just helps with the selling of the podcast, the promotion of the podcast, leave a review. You know, I record, you know, sometimes on the, and all this stuff goes up on the volumes YouTube page. Subscribe to the YouTube page as well. Helps with this little growing business, you know, trying to put food on different people's families on the table. So just keep it rocking and rolling. And yeah, obviously the Middilkoff mailbag, which I've pushed back to the weekend. I might add, depend at John Middlecoff is the Instagram, slide. up into those DMs. And again, make sure you subscribe to this podcast. If you listen to

Collins' feed, make sure you subscribe to this, the three and out feed. Subscribe to the podcast. Greatly appreciate everyone that's listening. I know we got a lot of new listeners. Excited to have you all around and talking sports, talking football, and talking the NFL Combine. And really quick, before we get into the players, like, the NFL Combine is going to move. I feel pretty confident on that. They're going to move it to Los Angeles. You know why? Because Stan Cronkey put the NFL network at SoFi Stadium. So even though Los Angeles, a lot of people, if you've never been to Indianapolis, it's the ideal convention city.

And I've only been to Indianapolis for the Combine, but it doesn't get any better. Every hotel is connected by a bridge. And every bridge is covered because in the winter, it's obviously really cool in Indianapolis. Well, all the hotels lead to this major convention center, which is connected to the stadium. The stadium is also connected to the hotel where all the players are. You never, it's basically the combine is under one roof. I like Los Angeles. And I've been someone that's talked a lot of some shit about L.A. over the year.

Part of it, I'm a NorCal guy. I'm a Giants guy. I'm a Niners guy. I'm a warrior guy. I was a Kings guy. Hate the Lakers. Hate the Dodgers. Kind of, I don't really mind the Rams,

but now they're becoming the Niners rival. I got to kind of muster up some hate, but I really don't. I actually always kind of like the SC. Trojans, but I'm a Cal bear guy, but they're not really rivals. But regardless, North Cal, Southern California, we got a little rivalry. Part of it is I think we're kind of jealous. It's much warmer down there and haven't spent some time down there earlier this year. Hollywood Suite, West Hollywood Suite, I know Manhattan Beach is Sweet, Newport Beach is Sweet. I get it. It's cool. But it's not a great setup for the combine. You would have to have everything spread out.

Indianapolis is ideally set up. And because of money, and listen, Roger Goodell's been right on a lot of things. He put the combine in prime time. That was a hit. Remember it used to be really early in the morning? He was smart. Bumped it up. Roger knows how to make money. But I think they are making money regardless on this. I think it's more of the pressure because Stan spent

$6 billion and is housing the NFL network. He's going to want more events there. So my two cents is the combine will move to Los Angeles next year. And I think that's a mistake logistically. But Roger doesn't get, Godell ain't go to the combine.

I mean, he doesn't mind. It's not his problem. It's not even Stan's problem. Hell, Sean McVeigh, and less need a lock to go to next year's combine, if it's in Los Angeles, I would say it's 50-50. Hell, is Kyle, is Kyle Shanahan a lock

to fly an hour down there to go to the combine? I'd also say it's 50-50. But it's, it might be the last combine that we ever have in Indy if it is. It's one of the greatest runs in the history of runs. But I wanted to start with Kyle Hamilton. And I think like in any industry, we just get,

we just get so hell bent on doing something because that's the way we've always done it. And, you know, listen, you can nitpick the guy all you want, but Chip Kelly was big on asking why. You know, and I like people that ask, well, why are we doing this? Why is this the way that we've done it? Why can't we do it this way? And forever in football, there are two positions that you do not take really high. Middle linebacker and safety. And I'd also throw interior offensive line, center and guard.

You just do not take those guys hard or very high in the draft. And there was a guy several years ago that I was adamant. I thought he was a moron for taking this guy this high in the draft. Because I thought the value didn't make any sense. And it was Quentin Nelson. And I said, I do not understand why Chris Ballard is going to take Quentin Nelson number six overall. And here's where I got it wrong.

Just like safety and just like linebacker. You can take a guy, a non-quarterback, as high as you want, if the guy's going to be a Hall of Fame player. If you take a guard at number two overall and he becomes a guy, Larry Allen, you're not mad at yourself. If you ended up taking Luke Keeckley number two overall or Ed Reed two overall, you don't care that you take a middle linebacker and a safety number two overall, five overall, seven overall.

Now, the difference is if you can find average safeties and average linebackers who can just be functional starters for you. It's harder to do that at left tackle, at pass rusher, at quarterback. So it's why those positions historically have gone really, really high and they will continue to go really, really high. But I will say this about safety and linebacker. A couple years ago, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers took Devin White,

number five overall. You think they regret that? Not for a second. The Carolina Panthers once upon a time took Luke Keekely at eight. Hell, he should have gone top three, right? Ed Reed once upon a time, if you would have taken him in the top five, no one would have complained.

So when I look at Kyle Hamilton, the overall, the conventional wisdom in football is you don't take a safety in the top five, hell, in the top ten. And it's pretty clear. A lot of people have talked about this, that Kyle Hamilton is potentially the best prospect in a vacuum in this draft. He's better for his position than any pass rusher, than any quarterback, and than any offensive lineman.

Tony Besselli's not in this offensive line class. Nick Bosen, Killele Mac, and Miles Garrett are not in this pass rusher class. And clearly the quarterbacks are very questionable, and we'll get them to a little bit later. Kyle Hamilton is 6-4, 220 pounds. He tested really well. His 40 wasn't great, but he was coming off a knee injury. His character is, I mean, 10 out of 10.

I have talked to several people, my scouting buddies, that think he is the best prospect in the draft. And you'd say historically, his position, he would not go that high. I think he ends up going in the top five. And I think you can easily justify it. If you believe that Kyle Hamilton will be a top one or two safety in the league in the next three or four years,

you should take him very, very high in the draft. My prediction right now is he goes top five. And he will live up to the billing when he gets to the league because he's going to be that good. Now, the one question you would have after today, if his play speed, he plays actually really fast, his time speed wasn't great. And I think that's where people are going to nitpick.

How can he man up with George Kittle, with Travis Kelsey, with Kyle Pitts, with all these tight ends, or even these wide receivers that are going to be in the league. Because ultimately, he will get matched up in space on a guy like Justin Jefferson, on a guy like Jamar Chase, potentially, right? Just depending on the coverage. And you have to cover a lot of ground.

Well, he's proven when he played at Notre Dame that he could cover a lot of ground, that he had great ball skills, that he was a physical tackler, and obviously he's a really good guy. To me, he's the total package. And I think there are certain players that you can look vast the conventional wisdom. Devin White was one of those guys. Right? Several safeties, I'm trying to think in the last, we haven't had great safety drafts over the last several years. I think Kyle Hamilton falls under that mold. I would take him

in the top five. You know, when I take him one, I understand Jacksonville. You need to get an offensive lineman. But conventional wisdom would also say that you have to be very careful in the draft about forcing need. Do you believe that any of these guys are going to be pro bowl level tackles. Because if you don't, I don't love taking that guy number one overall. Now, once upon a time, most people didn't think Eric Fisher was going to be some star left tackle. The Chiefs took him.

It was rough at the beginning, but he ultimately became a really good player. So you can never go wrong taking an offensive lineman. And I think it to the Lions, you know, will probably take one of the two pass rushers. But I think it's, it's possible that Kyle Hamilton could go three to the Houston Texans, which obviously have a lot of needs. College basketball championship season is approaching and there's no better place to get in on the action than the Fandul Sportsbook. It's where I bet.

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Brought to you by NTSA and the app. Council. Let's talk about Jordan Davis. The other thing that conventional wisdom would tell you is that defensive tackles who aren't great pass rushers, you shouldn't take that high. And I'd say, yeah, that is true. But does the guy have pass rush ability? Does he have the potential to be, to create pressure on the quarterback?

And when I looked at Jordan Davis, ran a 4-8, which is insanity. He weighs 340 pounds 340 pounds And he ran a 4-8 Like I'm sorry He has the physical gifts To rush the passer You just need to coach him up

And I go You know I think there were a lot of talk about a guy like that Was probably going to go into the 20s That's dead After he had that weekend He's going in the top 15 And when I look at his comps Bigger guys that are viewed as

Pat or not great Pat rushers, incredible run stuffers, and just have a lot of physical characteristics, both guys went number 12. Vita Vaya, who has been awesome, and if you could redo that draft, would go in the top 10, and Helodinata, who also once upon a time went 12. And if you could redo that draft, would also go on the top 10. To me, I think you could justify taking Jordan Davis in the top 10. High character guy, elite physical attributes.

We saw him dominate the highest level of football. and his, I mean, what he did today at the Combine, like he already had the tape. Now, the pass rushing tape needs to improve. But when I was with the Eagles, when we drafted Fletcher Cox, when Fletcher Cox came in the NFL, he wasn't like some elite pass rusher.

He had the skills to be taught how to become an elite inside pass rusher, which ultimately he became. Part of it, you got to coach him up. Like, if my defensive line coached be like, I don't want him, be like, can you coach, you don't want this guy? You don't want to work with it?

guy? You think anyone said they didn't want to order Vita Vaya or Helodina? Like to me, that's the category that this guy's in. Somewhat of a raw product who's already produced at a really high level, dominated at a really high level, that just needs to improve at the most important thing. And that's getting

pressure on the quarterback. We know immediately he's going to be able to stop the run. Immediately. And we know immediately he's going to, you can start him day one. Like he's a plug and play starter. He just needs to improve. And I think he will, especially in a position where he's playing like, you know, four-down defensive lineman, he has one gap, get up the field.

Good defensive line coaches, like good offensive line coaches, are worth every bit of their seven-figure salaries that they get in the NFL. And they would die to coach a guy like this, he's a freak, an absolute freak show. I was blown away by the guy. And because this isn't a great quarterback draft, like, the reason quarterbacks get nitpicked every single year is because they're going to go really high. and when you draft a quarterback, your entire franchise is put on that guy's shoulders.

If that guy does not succeed, your team is in trouble. It's also why we nitpick any guy that we're going to draft really high. One, we're paying you $30 to $35 million. And two, we are allocating a lot of resources. If I use the third, fourth, fifth pick on you, I am using a ton of my resources. Because on any given year, look what the Eagles did last year. They went from six to 12, and they got to you. gained a first round pick.

They still got to pick 12, which Devante Smith, and they got another first round pick. So think about the power of a resource in the top 10. Because that's, we talked about it last week. All a draft pick is, especially a high draft pick, is an allocation of resources.

Do I want to use this on an individual? Do I want to use to trade up to get a better player? Do I want to trade down to gain more resources? So if I'm willing to take you second, third, fourth, fifth overall, I'm going to nitpick the out of you. Why, I think it's fair to go, you know, Kyle Hamilton's 40 time is a little bit concerning. I would like him to be like low four-fives. But coming off a knee injury, maybe at the

pro day, he'll run a little faster. The problem is, Indy was a really fast track. So I look at Hutchinson, I look at Kavon. Those guys are both going to get nitpicked. And that's fair. They should be. I think the question with Aidan Hutchinson is, how big of a ceiling does he have? Like when I draft him, how much better can he get? Because when I draft the Miles Garrett. And when I drafted Khalil Mack, these were guys that went one, they went five. When I drafted Nick Bosa, who went two, when I drafted Joey Bosa that went three,

those guys had a lot of room for growth. They got to the NFL and they got better. They kept dominating. They improved. And when you look at Aden Hutchinson, you go, does he have the athletic attributes to continue to improve? That's what you have to ask yourself. I haven't broke down the film. I watched him play live four or five times.

I think he's an excellent problem. suspect. But he had short arms. Now, are short arms at defensive line a deal breaker? No, but there's a reason we like our tackles to have longer arms, right? 34, 35 inch arms. Why when you're watching, I'm not a big UFC guy. I know there was a big UFC fight and obviously in boxing. Why do you think they talk about when the two guys are walking out and they give the measurals, the height, the weight, the age, and the reach? Because if I can reach farther than you, we can be standing at the same distance, I can hit you, you can't hit me.

So when I'm an offensive tackle and I'm Tyron Smith or Jason Peters or Andrew Whitworth or Trent Williams and I have 35 inch arms and you have 32 inch arms, I can get into you before you can get into me. Because ultimately we're one on one, we're fighting, right?

We are in combat, me versus you. So he has 32 inch arms. Well, he's not a 4-4 guy. He's not Miles Garrett or Von Miller super explosion. He's fast, he's quick twitched, but I wouldn't call him like, can't miss explosion. So it's going to be one of those things

that's getting nitpicked in the room. You would like him to be longer. Because he is tall. He just doesn't have long arms. And as we know, if you watch a lot of football, and you watch star pass rushers and star tackles,

they're constantly using their hands. It's hand-to-hand combat. So that is going to concern people. And it's okay to nitpick guys that are going to go in the top five. and that's what happening with both these guys. Kavon Tibado compared himself to Jadavion Clowny.

I got news for you. That's not a positive. Jadavion Clowny once went number one overall. If we redid the draft, he's not going in the top 10. Jadavion Clowny would be considered an underachiever. Pretty sure DeVion Clowny's never had double-digit sacks. But I actually think there's some comparables. Both guys a little stiff. Clowny was more powerful, but Kvon is strong

and explosive, what I've heard the knock on him is he doesn't have that many moves. He's not a great bender. He doesn't have that many counters. He's just been really, really physically gifted and more physically gifted

than a lot of guys he's gone against. So the knock on him is a little bit of stiffness and just, you know, he talks about brand a lot. I don't mind when wide receivers and running backs talk about their brand. I don't love my defensive linemen talking about brands.

I've never heard the Bosa brothers talk about their brand. brand. I've never heard Von Miller talk about the brand when he was young. Khalil Mack, I've never heard of mention it. Like, it's just, it's something that concerns people, you know, and it's fair because I'm going to invest $34 million of this guy and use a very, very high pick. I can ask these questions. Are both these guys going to go on the top, you know, five, six picks? Yeah, more than likely. But you're going to hear some criticisms of them over the next couple weeks, as you should, because they're basically the quarterbacks this year.

Because when you look at the quarterbacks, I wouldn't take any of these guys in the first round. Not one. I watched Desmond Ritter a couple times this season and never once did. I think he had first round talent. And I actually think that the comp they used, Dack Prescott was pretty fair. Now, obviously, if you could redo Dak Prescott's draft, he would not go in the fourth round. He would go in the top 10. If you told me that Desmond Ritter is going to be as good as Dak Prescott, I would obviously take him in the first round. The likelihood of that happening, to me, feels pretty slim. Right? You know, part of Dak Prescott when he came out, he was at Mississippi State. He got them in the top five. They were playing LSU and Alabama and Auburn every year.

This guy, I know they had better competition. They played Notre Dame. They got to the playoffs. Well, the playoff game, you got throttled. Like, I don't care. You're playing these random teams. Now, he is very athletic, high character guy, very productive. college, I would have no problem taking him in like the third round. But I could not, and I get quarterback inflation. I just, I don't know, man. Now, I heard Bucky Brooks talk about this and he's right. His resume are resumes that usually just have a longer career.

Just because you have a longer career doesn't mean it's really good. When I draft a quarterback, I expect a guy to be pretty good if I'm going to take him in the top 50 picks. I want, can he be a starter and a playoff team? ultimately like Jalen Hertz can be a starter on a playoff team. We can nipick them all we want. Like this guy's good as Jalen Hertz? I saw Jalen Hertz dominated Oklahoma and Alabama.

Dominate might be strong, but play really well. Now you could argue this guy played really well at Cincinnati, but the competition was a little different. Kenny Pickett, like, I'm sorry. I'm just not into weak-arm guys. And when I asked my friends in the league to tell me like, yeah, Mac Jones, this guy can't hold a candle to Mac Jones. Like, well, I didn't even like Mac Jones.

So I don't do small hand, weak-arm guy, one-year production. it's just not my cup of tea. You're going to take Kenny Pickett in the first round. We were arguing last year, should Mac Jones even go in the first round? And let's face it, if you put Mac Jones on like the Bears

or some of these bad teams that all started rookie quarterbacks, it would have been really, really ugly. He went to a place with a great defense and an unreal running game. And I don't know, the greatest head coach in the history of the league. And Malik Willis, like, likable guy.

We all saw the video that went viral of them handing the hat to the homeless person. It's cool. I want my quarterbacks. That's the, baseline. Part of being a quarterback is being a high character guy that everyone loves. So that's good. But he's six feet, so he's not that tall. I mean, I watched him play Ole Miss. I watch some highlights. He's just a very, very raw product. Again, I would have no problem taking a

raw product. Pick 78. Could not take this guy in the first round. And so if you're telling me all three of these guys are going to compete to go in the first round, like, this is where we get bus. Right. Part of last year was like, Trevor Lawrence, no-brainer. Justin Fields going every first round. Trey Lance is just his physical attributes, how productive he was, even if it was one year in college. Like, Malik Willis wasn't even that productive.

And he just needs a lot of work, which is fine. That's part of drafting guys in the third and fourth round. When you take a guy in the first round, anything less than being like a decade-long starter is a problem. So I don't like this quarterback draft at all. I don't even love, obviously there are a lot of pass rushers,

but let's not act like there's no Joey or Nick Bosa there's no Khalil Mack the chances that Kayvon Tibido is as good as Clowny is probably slim than none like ultimately Clowny's an underachiever but he's had a pretty productive career

you know he's gonna have a decade long career now Kavon might too but is he good as him Aiden Hutchinson said like who is he I don't know so it's just you're gonna be very very critical at the top of this draft because all these guys are flawed

you know even Kyle Hamilton Like I said, didn't run quite as fast you'd like to take a safety number three overall. You know, the last several years, like Jamar Chase's, you know, those bad guys, the Julio Joneses, the, you know, the Khalil Max. Like, they're just not in this draft. Now, there are really good players in this draft, but it's going to be really, really fascinating over the next several weeks. A lot of good guys, which is good. Now, I think the younger generation, good people. Like, this draft feels like there's a lot of high character guys.

how many like impact all pros obviously only time will tell but going into this draft I don't know how many we view in like the top 10 or like can't miss all pros but it's what's fun about the draft in a couple years we might all look I might look like an idiot

if Desmond Ritter and Malik Willis are sweet and Aidan Hutchson leads the league in sacks with 18 I'd be like middle cop you don't even know what you're doing like yeah it's why I host a podcast you know what's why I'm a podcaster successful one you know business is booming you know it's why my buddies are in the league

They're thriving. Are you friends with Super Bowl rings? I just want a lot of downloads. That's all I'm looking for here. But it's just my opinions. These are just my opinions. I watch a lot of college football. Don't have much of life in the fall.

Watch a lot of these guys play. And God, Jordan Davis. You know, I'll tell you this. The chances that Hutchinson and Kvon, if I had to bet on a guy, here's a take. If I had to bet on Hutchinson, Kavon, or Jordan Davis next decade,

I'll bet on Jordan Davis. How about that? I'll take Jordan Davis. I'll take the 340 pound guy that can run a 4-8 that dominated in college, his entire career, at the highest level against the best competition, and who's got a ceiling as high as the sky.

With that being said, talk to you guys tomorrow. Hopefully you guys had a good weekend. And it's a fun time of year. We've got a lot of moving parts. The draft, free agency. You know, if we're not going to have games, at least the NFL, year-round clock, baby. Let's keep rocking and rolling.

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