The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 3 and Out -  Raiders Red Flags + Michael Lombardi on Belichick Security, Rodgers/Jets ?’s, Saquon Contract

Episode Date: July 25, 2023

John explains why he thinks could get ugly really quickly with the Raiders, and the reality of training camp injuries for NFL GM’s. Then, he’s joined by former NFL GM, longtime exec. - and host of The GM Shuffle pod - Michael Lombardi to discuss the massive media hype machine, if Bill Belichick’s job is really in jeopardy in New England, the questions surrounding the Jets and Aaron Rodgers, why Saquon Barkley’s claims of being underpaid don’t add up, why he’s not buying Justin Fields as the Bears long-term QB, why the Ravens converting to a passing attack with Lamar Jackson is a mistake, if Sam Darnold can beat out Trey Lance, and how Al Davis would have adapted to today’s game. #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The volume. What is going on, everybody, John Middlecop, three and out podcast. Football season is unofficially here. I can't want you get pads on, which will probably happen. Most teams around the league, some of them are a little ahead of schedule, but I would say the overwhelming. Every team in the league will have pads on by either next Monday or Tuesday.

And that to me is the official start of football. and so it doesn't get any better than this time of year. I get juiced up when I see Aaron Rogers to Garrett Wilson pass. But there's nothing quite like the pads popping. It's awesome. It doesn't get any better. That's what football is all about. So we're rocking and rolling.

I did a golf podcast yesterday reacting to the Open Championship, the last major of the year. That'll be the last golf podcast for a while because football's rock and rolling. So today we will have, I'll give a couple thoughts on some stories around the And we will also have Mike Lombardi, former NFL GM, current podcaster. I talked to him at the end of last week,

just about some big picture stuff. So he's, he joined me for a while. He's awesome. He lets it fly. He'll talk some shit, even though we don't always agree. And the game plan will be for tomorrow.

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Well, let's start with James Garapolo. And listen, Jimmy Garapolo has a long, extensive injury history. Some guys do, right? Some guys get hurt a lot, and some guys, for whatever reason, are Iron Men and never get injured. It is the one thing in pro sports that you just never know. A guy can have a long resume of injuries and then just play several years and be, you know, perfectly fine.

And a guy that has been available his own, his entire career can just start getting hurt constantly at 30 years old or 33 years old or 28 years old. You never know. This is something. There is no perfect formula for this. But I would say in my experience of watching sports, and I would imagine a lot of people listening to this who are, if you're my age and your 30s and your 40s, even if you're in You've been watching sports long enough.

There are certain guys who get injured a lot. There are other guys who are just more available than others. And I would say if you stick with investing and signing and drafting guys that have proven having availability, you give yourself a better chance. But you could sign Reggie White or Lawrence Taylor or Peyton Manning or whoever in their prime and they could have an immediate injury and their career could end. That's just the nature of the sport of football. It will dive into some of the early injuries, but it happens in OTAs.

It happens in training camps before the pads come on. It happens in preseason games. It obviously happens in the regular season. It's one of the sad parts about what I would consider the greatest team game in the world. Sorry, soccer fans. But I do think the Raiders are on a very slippery slope. Josh McDaniels has hitched his wagon to a guy who last year at this time could not pass a physical. So if you want to say that Jimmy has improved his availability, because at this point last year in late July, he wasn't even available.

It took till the end of training camp for him to be able to pass a physical. Now, granted, he couldn't pass a physical the majority of 2022, but this is a guy with countless injuries. From his feet to his knees, to his hand, to his shoulders. He gets injured a lot. And he's a good player, but he's not really good. right? You're not signing Peyton Manning like the Denver Broncos did in 2012. You're not signing Tom Brady like Tampa Bay. This is a guy who is very dependent on who is playing around him.

And luckily in his career, the couple games that he had to start when Tom was suspended and his time in San Francisco, he's at a pretty freaking good team and really good head coach. Now, Josh was the offensive coordinator for his time in New England and those couple games that he started before he got injured in the second game when he injured his shoulder. But the one thing is being a coordinator and being a head coach, we've all learned is completely different. And looking at Josh's, honestly, his record is actually better than I thought it would be when I looked it up. It's 17 and 28. He said, John, what do you guess Josh McDaniel's record as a head coach? I would have been like 15 and 40. So it's better than I thought. But he's

proven to be below average as a head coach from the eye test, even if you give him a little bit of a pass. John, Denver Broncos a long time ago. Okay. Well, I witnessed last year, Derek Carr coming off the best season of his career, have the worst season of his career under him. And the team being unable to win any close games that mattered

until the season was basically over. And at the end of the year, it just didn't matter because they won six games. So when you hit your wagon to a guy, a quarterback, right? You get rid of Derek, okay, it's football. He didn't get it done. He doesn't fit your system.

Like, listen, he's been there nine years. I got no problem with that. I had no issue with them moving on from him as a quarterback. But to hit your wagon to a guy who is always injured and to have no backup plan, right? I mean, their backup quarterback is Brian Hoyer. And the other thing is your third best player, right? Devante, Max Crosby, are two best players. Josh Jacobs, I'd say, is if not on their level right behind.

just got seen getting on an airplane leaving. Now, doesn't have a contract over the dispute of the franchise tag, but I think it's fair to say that he's not going to be around all of training camp. So you're going to be very dependent on him. And we've seen this with running backs can be very hit or miss when they're MIA all of camp, who is kind of a one-season wonder. Now, he's been a good player when he's been on the field before 2022, but he'd never had a season quite like that.

I just think that this situation with the Raiders could get ugly and could get ugly really fast. Now, a couple weeks ago when I did kind of my hot seat rankings, I didn't put them on. Just in the simple fact, I don't think Mark Davis wants to do another coaching search. I don't think he wants to pay a guy to go away. But if Jimmy Garoppolo gets injured, as he always does, and all of a sudden you're with Brian Hoyer and some other random quarterback that you're going to be forced to sign, and your season is derailed and you're looking at a three or four win team, and we start talking about Caleb Williams with you at the end of October,

this thing can get ugly and this thing get ugly fast. Vegas is about the stars, the bright lights. You pay premiums to go to shows. And they've been lucky, right? Lucky's the wrong word. They have changed the landscape of the city by adding professional teams. The Vegas Knights just won a championship, right? That's a fact.

I mean, they are the best team in the NHL. And you can say the NHL hockey teams are clearly the fourth team in basically every market. But when it comes to Vegas, who have only had a football team now for a couple of years, who looks like they're getting a baseball team and do not have an NBA team yet. Like the Knights did it right, the arena is sweet and they kick ass. Well, the Raiders, their stadium is pretty cool. I've never been inside, but I've got virtual tours and I've driven by it. It looks badass.

They did it right. The facilities are awesome. the team has not been good. And the team last year was an embarrassment. And I just, this thing get ugly fast. It really can. And I think they're hitching their wagon to a guy who is just not the most dependable individual.

No fault of his own. Like, I don't think Jimmy wants to get hurt, but he does get injured a lot. And their coach has proven to just not be very good. So I got the Raiders massively red flagged. One thing that I never enjoyed as a scout or even, when I worked in college football, it just the pit in my stomach, the lack of ability to control anything is just when you're at practice in training camp, you know, you can be OTAs as well. And a guy goes down. And the entire place, if there are fans there or not, goes completely silent.

Everyone knows is a major injury. And the sad reality when it's a pile, depending on what position group is involved, you're just praying to God. Like, I'll just use the 49ers as an example. If it's D-Line and O-line stuff and there's a pile and someone is not getting up, you're like, I hope to God, that's not Trent Williams or Nick Bosa. And then when you see that it's someone else, it's a weird feeling because it's like a sense of relief. And then the cart comes out and it's a sense of then also devastation because a guy's clearly had a major injury. And it's something that I have anxiety even thinking about. I hated that feeling.

But coaches, especially longtime coaches and definitely longtime executives, I don't know if you ever get numb, but their ability to move on to the next play, to the next drill with injuries is, it's pretty impressive. And part of that, and you could argue in any industry, I'm sure I have people listening to me from every business, from car sales to doctors, to people that work in sports, you become, in a sense, numb to certain things. Like, you've been to a hospital, not proud, but I remember when my dad was really sick, the doctor came in and basically said, like, he's not actually alive. So if you, the ventilators are the only thing keeping him alive.

And this is well before 2020. And my mom couldn't do it. So it was on me and my brother. And his, like, the devastation in that room with our family, this guy says this every day to people. And I'm not saying that guy ever gets numb to seeing life disappear. but after you see it enough, I mean,

that doctor has a perspective when people tell them like, yeah, I guess you got to pull the plug, that us in that room, anyone listening that has been through that, the feeling in our room of pure devastation, I mean,

the worst thing that can ever happen to you is something he sees on a daily basis. I don't know how they cope with it, but clearly you have to. That's the profession you're in. And they deal with life and death. When we're coming to football, you're just dealing with,

careers. But when I see today that Gardner Johnson, the former Eagle Safety, I think he led the league in interceptions last year, who's now in the Lions, carted off the field, you're going to see that a lot more this week, non-contact injuries, guys being carted off the field. And some of them are just going to be freakouts and it's going to be okay. He just sprained his knee. And others are going to be devastating knee injuries or torn pecks or, you know, dislocated ankles, whatever. And it is, it's the worst part of training camp. I don't even think there is a close second. But the reality is, and I've held the sheet, is the GM looks at you.

If you're, you know, the assistant GM or you're one of the scouts. And when I was with the Eagles, I used to hold it in my pocket. Technologies changed it a little bit where you'd have a tangible piece of paper with the short list. So when you lose a guard or when you lose a safety, you have a list of other safeties on the street. and you immediately go to work with setting up workouts or bringing in a guy to immediately sign. Because that's just the business you're in. And there's just no avoiding it. And it's something I do not miss.

I don't even like reading about injuries, let alone. But if you're Belichick, if you're Pete Carroll or Andy Reid, you've seen this now for 40, 50 years. And I'm sorry, you're around something long enough. I don't want to say you're, I hate using the term numb, but you definitely get used to it. And you definitely get used to the mindset of just next one up, next man up. Now, there are certain players. And I haven't seen this yet. But there is no next man up when you lose a high, you know, a tier one player.

When you lose a blue chip all pro. And you just kind of got to keep your fingers crossed, whoever your team is, that every day during training camp, you know, it's why so many teams now don't play anybody. And I give Sean McVeigh credit. I thought it was crazy. I'm like, you're not going to play anyone during the preseason. I'm in agreement with him. Now, I know Belichick and Andy and Tomlin,

some of these old school coaches still play some of their guys, but I think when you factor in the money and you factor in just the importance of, if you're a good team, the seven, eight core players on your roster, especially the older they get, they would never play a snap for me if I own the team. That would be a mandate I'd have.

I'd say, listen, I don't meddle with draft picks. I don't meddle with signings. I will give you whatever you need to do. My only mandate is I'm sorry, whatever the list is. If it's five guys, if it's nine guys, they're just not. We might lose them when games come, but the game's got to be a real game, not a preseason game. And last but not least is I remember when I was in college in like 05, 06, 07, and then I went to work with Fresno State and seeing some of our guys get drafted really high,

there wasn't a rookie wage scale. And anyone, if you're of a certain age, remembers when guys like Nadamacin Su and Sam Bradford and most famously, Jamarcus Russell, they got enormous sums of money. I mean, you're talking guys, Bradford, $60 million. Jamarcus Russell, this is almost 20 years ago now, before he had ever taken a snap. Again, this pre-inflation and everything, I think got well over $40 million. And then when the new CBA happened, I think it was in 2011, remember the lockout, the rookie wage scale, I think, made the league a lot healthier. And I think you've seen if you're a Colts fan, if you're a Texans fan, if you're a Panther fan, you're going to see all these quarterbacks have signed their contract. And basically, I think Anthony Richardson was like $34 million.

I think Bryce was 37 or 38. That would mean C.J's, you know, 36 and a half, $37 million. $20 million, fully guaranteed. This is a fully guaranteed four-year contract. And they're signing bonuses, I could pull it up. I think it's, you know, $25 to $28 million. They get guaranteed. Now, if you hit on those quarterbacks, those first four years at that number, averaging

whatever, under $10 million a season, is the best contract you will ever sign. But the law averages will show us minimum, two of the three of these guys are just, not only not going to be franchised quarterbacks, probably inevitable backups. They're going to be quote-unquote bus. Like Zach Wilson. I saw a headline the other day.

I think Sala feels like the Jets reported a little early to training camp and a lot of positives coming out about Zach Wilson. Sala kind of singing this praises. Like, I'm sorry. I'm calling bullshit. There have already been rumors. I think Rich Sommini wrote that the Jets fully believe and Aaron Rogers communicated.

It would take a devastating, like, he plans on playing the next year. Zach Wilson's contract will be up. You're not picking up his fifth year option, right? So he won't be on the Jets in two years. Hell, he's not guaranteed to be on the Jets the fall in 2024. Like that, if they had a do-over on that one, I got news for you. They would do it over.

If they got a do-over on that one, they wouldn't even take a quarterback. Because beside Trevor Lawrence, and I was pound on the table for Justin Fields, that there is no guarantee that any of those guys would have been worth the pick. There are still an unknown on fields. Mack Jones, to me, under no circumstances, could be a top 10 pick. And Trey Lance and Zach Wilson, if you could redo that thing, neither one is sniffing the first round. Now, that doesn't define their career. You know, they could go to other teams and resurrect their career.

We've seen it happen countless times. Hell, Gino Smith just did it last year. And he had bounced around the league for a while. But the weight scale, what it used to be, whatever the equivalent would be now, right? if San Bradford and whatever, 08 is getting $60 million, factoring inflation, the cap, I mean, we're talking $100 million contracts for these guys, right? At minimum $85.

And it's much easier to pivot when you screw up with $35 million than it is triple that number. So the wage scale has made the league a lot healthier. I think from a locker room standpoint, the reason Belichick used to always trade down. Now, for the most part, he was drafting in the 20s, But even then, you know, he would trade back sometimes. He would get out of the first round. He didn't want a guy in his locker room making three or four million dollars that had never

proven shit when he had core guys who he'd won championships with making six, right? So you're like, wait, I've been on this team for four years. I'm making five and a half million dollars. We just drafted this guy who was great at Illinois, who has never proven anything in this league and he's making three and a half, four million dollars. I make a million dollars more than him. The blood, sweat, equity I've had in this franchise, which is, it still happens today, right? C.J. Stroud or Bryce Young hasn't proven anything, but people can understand it, even if they're a bust. But it's, it's a lot difficult for good teams, competitive teams,

to have guys in the locker room that you know right away aren't good, make it an astronomical amount of money. So it's not perfect. More than likely, a lot of these guys are not, most years are not Jamar Chase, Micah Parsons, Devante Smith, Jalen Waddle, Panay Sewell, just guys that are like, they're worth every penny, they're underpaid. Most years are like, yeah, half the top 15, we'd want to do over on that bad boy. And I think it's made these contracts a lot easier to get done. I've had some people DM me if it's, listen, most of you, I'm sure know this. This is a pretty remedial comment here, but ask me if the draft position, if it's draft position purely, or does the position you play also factor in like it does with franchise tags?

It's just draft slots. So if you're drafted two, the number is the number. Whether you play running back, Sequin Barclay got what he got as number two pick, whether he played running back or whether he had played quarterback. C.J. Stroud was getting what he gets regardless of the position. So it's purely on the draft slot. And we can argue a lot about different things the league has done, some of the rules, some of, you know, I think training camp,

now that starts as someone that's been going to training camp for well over a decade. I do think it's difficult and I've never played in the NFL, but I've been around enough old school players and I watch football, you know, in the 90s, it feels like, and I'm very adamant about this. There are way more injuries now because in boxing, I'm not a big MMA guy, not even the biggest boxing guy, but I followed enough to know. And all you got to do is watch some of these Connor McGregor documentaries or Floyd

that you spar. leading up to the fight. Why? To build calluses on your body. So you can take it, right? You use that physicality to get ready for the actual fight. Football is no different. Now, I'm not pounding the table here and say we should go back to Junction Boys, Bear Bryant, no water breaks, triple days. But for example, and I am pretty sure this is an NFL rule, and a lot of teams do this. I know the Niners go three days on, one day off. And their double days are not allowed. So the amount of practices you have before even week one relative to what it used to be 15, 20 years ago when I don't have the evidence in front of me, but I'm pretty confident there are way less injuries. And it makes sense,

right? You practice, to get good at football, you have to practice football. And the only way to play football is with pads. This is not baseball where I can, me and Pedro Martinez, it just can be us two. And I could get an AB just like I would in the big leagues, right? Or it's not basketball where even if it's not an NBA game, if we get 10 NBA players, we can have a five on five game, even if we're just wearing our own shit, right? It can be real basketball. In football, OTAs and even what you see early in training camp has nothing to do with actual football once you put on the pads, the run game, the fits, the tackling. And honestly, no one tackled in practice anymore. And I don't even blame them. But it's just considered quote unquote thud for those people.

people that, you know, have never played football. It's basically, it's a little more physical two-hand touch, but it's a hard little pot, but there is no wrapping up and there's definitely no taking to the ground. It's why a lot of the fights that you'll see in training camp are when you go to the ground. Now, granted, there were fights in the 70s, the 80s, the night. There's always fights in training camp. It's hot. People are edgy.

You're tired of hitting your teammate. But it's a lot different now. And I'm a big believer that it's very, very difficult to get. ready for week one when you don't practice. And I would imagine most coaches, they don't really talk about it as much because it feels like you're making excuses and anything you say to the media kind of drips down to your player. So they just kind of take it for what it is. But if you get them off the record, if you know them personally, they'll all bitch and moan

about it. The thing is kind of a joke. And they're not looking to kill anybody. They understand that you got $10 million, $15, $20 million assets on your squad, right? You're paying these guys a lot of money. But the way this training camp works out, man, it's just, I'm not trying to act like some tough guy. I never played in the league. But my first year in the NFL with the Eagles was pre-CBA.

And it was a pretty physical training camp. And I know Kelsey's talked about this. Relative of the NFL, Andy's training camp is still really physical. Belichick pivoted where he, he's still a physical training camp too. But like he uses that first month, it doesn't matter as much anymore because his team's not as good. But back with Brady, they use that first month. to really kind of training camp because that was the time they could be physical and tackle that he could kind of gauge his squad who was good who was not you know a lot of it's a guessing

game you can make pretty strong educated guesses when you're evaluating your team but it's still pretty hard right if you got your second string guy and they're just doing thud like would you have made that open field tackle what do you have i don't know because you're not actually tackling and if he's not putting that spot in a preseason game you just kind of keep your fingers crossed So it's a really fun time of year. It's a very complicated time of year for the teams to try to get the most out of every rep. And depending on where you are, you know, some teams have it better than others, right? The weather in Seattle is not as, you know, clearly as warm or humid as it is in Florida.

Or it is in North Carolina or some of these places like Philly or Pittsburgh, right? So this, I enjoy it. I enjoy the chess maneuvers of putting together. training camp and trying to avoid these injuries, man, because they can really derail a season. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be.

Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking.

What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jek. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know.

I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me,

it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Very, very excited for this one. I have, I don't even know how to introduce them. Either, you know, longtime NFL executive or just podcast media star. Mike Lombardi. How are you doing?

I'm good. I just, I think the only reason that I actually do this is because I say what I think, and I don't really have to worry about anything. I'm too old, so it's a good thing, you know. Kind of allows you to get away with more stuff than he could. My last year working in the NFL, I remember being at the Combine, and I was leaving, you know, where the interviews were, and people were kind of making their way out.

And somehow I stumbled on the street with this other guy, and his name was Mick Lombardi. And we started to talk. And I didn't keep in touch with him or whatever. But I remember the time he was just becoming the assistant to the head coach for a guy named Jim Harbaugh. And I was thinking about it today, knowing you were coming on. And he's obviously gone on now. He's the offensive coordinator.

And he's become a coach in the league. He works for the Raiders. It's got to be pretty cool for all the success you had and working in the league and to see your sons go on to be coaches. And that just worked for any, I mean, the Raiders, the 49ers, franchises that you had worked for. That's got to be a pretty cool professional accomplishment or personal accomplishment for yourself. Obviously, a lot of it goes to the mother because of how they raised them.

But I think, you know, when we were all in Cleveland, Stephen Belichick and Mick hung out with Brian Belichick. And so all those kids were there. And then, you know, Jim, when we were talking before we came on the air, Jim had a home up in Montclair, too, right near where I lived. And so Jay Harbaal and my son, Mick, they went to school together, so they became close. So it's kind of good to see all these kind of my son Matthews now at the Raiders,

all these kids that kind of played together in a backyard all kind of now become NFL coaches, which is kind of neat, you know, and all of them have paid their dudes. You know, Mick started out as a grad, basically started out as an intern in New England and worked his way up. Matthews started out as an intern in Cleveland, went to work for Bobby Petrino. So it isn't like he'd say, well, you know, they got jobs because of their dad, no, they had to actually go through the process. You know, they got in the door,

but they had to stay, they had to get through the door. How come you think they coached and didn't want to scout? Because I told them to coach. Because coaching, you can't lie. You can't lie coaching. Your tape tells you what you do. In personnel, you can always make something up. I didn't like that guy.

You know, I like that guy. They didn't listen to me. It's all full of a bunch of you're always right. And so the only way you can control, your occupation is to coach. And I made that really clear to them. I didn't coach. And I lived through the personnel world

where people took credit for things they didn't do. People gave blame for things that they did. It's kind of a really a very third world country kind of life. You know, there's always revolutions and counter-revolutions within organizations. So I wanted them to coach. I've had this kind of thing that football has really become kind of Wall Street on grass with the amount of money. Now, that's right down the street for me, Jonathan Gannon, who was a coordinator for two years, about a $10 million home. This isn't Belichick or Andy Reid.

This is a guy, first time head coach who's been a coordinator for two years. That's the type money that's flowing around. Obviously, your son's working it now. You've seen it. You get well compensated being a coach. Do you think that's influenced and changed the sports? from a coaching slash GMing standpoint of just the craziness behind the scenes because of how much money's on the line now? Well, there's, you know, your job security is less, right?

Because people, even though they're paying you more, they have money to fire you quicker. You know, when I first started, the cap was, there was no cap. I think the TV contract was given $16 million per club. You know, now one player gets $16 million. You know, Christian Kirk makes $18 million as a receiver. So that's how much the league's changed. look, you know, we interviewed Belichick. He had his very first interview in 1989 as a head coach.

He didn't get the job, Bud Carson did. But we interviewed him at the Hilton, which was the old Hilton in Mobile, Alabama. Ernie of course he and I. And he had been a coordinator, won a Super Bowl. He couldn't barely get head coaching interviews. And here's Jonathan Gannon, who basically gets a head coaching job. Why? off of two years of being a coordinator,

which for me, watching his tape was less than spectacular. Like, I didn't see it. You know, I didn't see it. I saw Shane Steichen's tape be pretty good the way they handled Jalen Hertz and the way they developed that offense. I got that.

I'm not saying he's ready, but I think we're putting guys in jobs. They're not even ready to be coordinators, and we're giving them head coaching jobs, and then we're mad because they're not ready for the job. How is that ever going to change, though? Because now the hype machine, you talk about this a lot on your podcast is just out of control.

The agents have so much juice. And let's face it, the owners, you just saw the amount of money. Every team got, what, 375? Well, the salary caps, 200. So even once you pay everyone else in the building, they have so much freaking money. It's just outrageous. But they're buying yachts.

They're not buying boats. They're buying yachts. Did you ever think that was possible back when you first got in the league in the 80s, the amount of money? I mean, who knew who could have envisioned that? But, yeah, you knew they were going to make it. I think to me, the owners get influenced by, they listen to a lot of wrong people oftentimes,

and they don't really understand what their core business is. And so they let people advise them on their core business. And so it falls into a, you know, let's hire this guy, let's hire that guy. And now that they're paying so much money to coaches, I mean, the fact that Jonathan Gannon became a head coach, or I'm not picking on Jonathan, but, I mean, like to me, that you don't have to serve an apprenticeship to get a head coach a job. You know, I say this on my pot all the time.

You call three first downs in a row your head coaching candidate. But Don Martindale or Jonathan Gannon, who's more ready to be a head coach? Martindale couldn't even get an interview with Arizona, right? And so, but Martindale's too old, doesn't look the part. A lot of this is political. Do you miss being in the NFL at all? No, not at all. No, I mean, I have my NFL.

I mean, I can watch games. I watch tape. I study the game. Basically, what I do for Veson is the same thing I did when I was in the league. I break down games. I handicapped teams. You could say it's handicapped in the betting market, but, you know, I go, okay, Cincinnati's good in this area.

Here's their strengths here. This is here's where you should attack them. The same thing I did when I was in the league. I enjoy that. So I still have that where I now I don't have to worry about. You know, what does this guy think? Who's evaluating me? Once I wrote Good Iron Genius, I gained personal freedom

and I just didn't really, I didn't need to be validated by somebody who was above me to say, oh, he knows what he's talking about or he doesn't. Yeah. I mean personal freedom. I don't mean that in an arrogant way. I mean it in a freedom way, you know, where it was an independence. It felt really good. Well, one thing, one big reason you've always resonated with me,

and I've done this as once I left the league, I didn't really care ever. Asperations to go back. You just kind of say what you feel. And you talk, you know, you see hard knocks. They think it's inhumane to show a player being cut now. And whether that's correct or not, players are cut. This is the point of training camp to go from 90 to 53.

Like, that's the whole point of August is to figure out your team. So we just, are we just not acknowledging what's really going on? Because we know once you go to those personnel meetings, how the conversations actually go. That's the way coaches and GMs actually talk. So it's just, I think clearly one reason you've had a lot of success is you speak like it's actually spoken. And that's hard to find. You see these former GMs now on TV. They don't say anything.

It's like, well, that's not how you actually talk. What are we gaining? Well, I mean, I just finished this last book called Football Done Right. And I wrote a chapter about television, you know, and it was a really educational chapter for me. Because when I was researching the chapter, I wanted to really understand the impact of television on the NFL. and truly kind of get to what made the game where it went from $16 million per TV contract to where it is today. And I think it comes down to three people mostly.

It comes down to Howard Cosell, Brett Musburger and Jimmy the Greek on the NFL today, and then the great John Madden. And Howard Cosell really turned the tide because what people don't realize is Monday Night Football was not something any, no name. network wanted. CBS was offered Monday night football at first and they said no chance. We've got gun smoke. We've got Andy Griffith. We've got all these great programs. We have no interest. Is that because those shows were doing 20, 30 million people watching so they didn't even want to risk it? 33% of the market share on that night. Monday night was a point in the television. So nobody was going to

miss Andy. Nobody was going to miss gun smoke. Nobody was going to miss that show. They were sitting in their chairs with their TV guy watching it, no DVR. Then NBC had Rowan and Martin in the Dara Stay Show, and they said, we want nothing to do with it. ABC said, we'll take it for 16 million for three years. And Rune Arloach said, we've got to put somebody in the booth who's going to say something, who's going to stir some interest. And he put Cosell in there, a former attorney who was more known for being Muhammad Ali's friend than he was anything. And as he said, he said, if we see it, we have to say it. And so the first night, Cleveland playing the Jets in municipal stadium, the ABC switchboard lit up. 50% of the people like Kosell, 50% hated them, but everybody

watched. And it grew the game. And it made Monday night football must watch television, whereas Andy and Gunsmoke and Rowan, they all faded away. And then when Brent came in with the NFL today and the Greek and they started talking about betting, but not talking about betting, all of a sudden, you know, now that really blossomed. So for me, the point of the story is when I read that and when I was researching CoSell, we don't have enough people basically seeing what they say. I mean, we got somebody yesterday, I mean, saying Nick Savan's legacy is in jeopardy this year. Are you serious?

Are you serious? I mean, you know, Bill Belichick's on the hot seat. Great. Fire Belichick. You're going to get a better coach than Belichick? You know, like, seriously. Like, we have things that are being said that nobody really puts any facts behind them. Well, let's talk about that, Bill specifically, because it's saving things stupid.

We all acknowledge, and you've seen him firsthand for decades. I worked for a guy whose career was made Pat Hill because of Bill elevating him. And Pat, I mean, never stopped talking about the lessons. And my football base was on stuff that he saw from your time in Cleveland. But is there, you know, coaches sometimes, whether it's a message go stale or just he's been there a long time. And the success, the bar that him and Tom set was so high, it's impossible to get to. Is it fair a conversation to be had? They're never going to upgrade Belichick.

But maybe, and I know you're close to him. Is it understandable? Because obviously he's a better coach than John Harbaal or Mike Tomlin, guys that never feel like they're on the hot seat. But is this just one of those that's an inevitable breakup that just happens in? in coaching? I think whatever you have a lot of success, everybody wants to claim the success, right? And so, you know,

we saw Asante Samuel come out the other day and screen that, you know, Belichick has nothing to do with the winning in New England. It was all Brady, which is the most ridiculous thing of all time. You know, because the last time I checked, Brady didn't play defense. And in that first Super Bowl,

they won against the Rams, they beat the, they stopped the greatest show on turf. So in the last Super Bowl, they won against the Rams, they scored 13 points. So I'm not sure if Sante watched those games, so we'll see. But to me, I think whenever you have a lot of success, people want credit.

Whenever you have a lot of expectations, people want to kind of keep turning. But then you look at the San Antonio Spurs. I mean, have they won the last three years? No. I don't think they've won in like seven. So they just rewarded Popovich with a huge contract. They have the highest paid coach in the league as Monty Williams, because they know that there's going to be some.

downtimes because of the way the system is set up. It's hard to dominate it. It's hard to have a great team all the time. That's what makes you in New England so rare. I mean, we're in an era of a cap. We're in an era of the worst team picks. I mean, when you go through the, when you go through the Patriots draft selections of where they pick, I think this year was the highest pick with Gonzalez until they traded down that they've picked since. You'd have to go back to the Richard Seymour draft. Think about that for a minute. It's the highest. It's the highest. I as they've picked. And the system is built on, you know, losers get the high picks, winners get the low picks. And so, yeah, I mean, I'm not disputing. They're frustrated in New England. I think

he certainly has a good team. He'll turn it around. I think last year, and I've said it on my pod, was a mistake to allow Matt Patricia to run the offense. I think everybody kind of knows that. But I think more than all of this, you know, if they would have had Pat Hill to coach the offensive line up there in New England, it might have been able to hide some of the problems because Pat's a really good line coach. They didn't have that. And I think that's probably the biggest issue of all. Well, now they're kind of in a position, right? They could be better with Bill and their offense could be better. We know they're going to be good on defensive special teams. But the division, if Rogers just incrementally makes them more competitive, we know the bills are solid.

And you could argue the dolphins, even if two were to get hurt, just how good their skill guys are or with Mike White could just keep them afloat, unlike last year. That division, you could compete to win nine games. And obviously the AFC, not make the playoffs. It's going to be very, very difficult. It's hard, yeah. I mean, but look, you know, the reason we're in this business is because it's hard. Yeah.

It makes it easy. There's no, you know, it's like John Kennedy said on the campus of the rice. You know, we go to the moon because it's hard, not because it's easy. You win a championship because it's hard. I mean, it's going to be a challenge. And I think, I think they have a team. look, we know this. For all the talk about offensive football, for all to talk about, you know, the skill players, the game comes down to who can stop the opponent and who plays the most physical.

I mean, I think that's what it comes down to. And on paper, no one's won a championship on paper. If that were the case, Texas would win the national championship every year or, you know, I mean, so, or Buffalo should have at least two Super Bowls by now. You got to play the games. I mean, look, the Jets have won two in Robert Salas' year. there. They've won two AFC East games. It's all they've won. I mean, they haven't proven that they've been the 13 playoff games since 1968 when Namath declared them the, we're going to win it. Thirteen. They haven't been no playoffs since 2010. Like, that just doesn't happen overnight. You've got to get good before you get great. Do you think the dynamics there could be a little

out of whack, given how desperate they were for Rogers, the hack, clearly another, you hire him basically for Rogers. It feels like it's a very slippery slope. It's either going to work or it could unravel quick. Well, yeah. I mean, I think it's going to, I think we're going to, they're going to go through, like any good team, they're going to go through hard times, right? So they're going to struggle and they're going to find out what character is the team,

how tough is the team? And look, every team has holes. Their offensive line. Can Mackay Beckton play right tackle? Does he want to play right tackle? You know, can you really count DeWainne Brown to be your left tackle? Lanklin Tomlinson did not play good at Lefgarne last year. So like, like I don't know how it's all going to work out,

but they're not like a lock. I mean, Salas said that one of the 60 to seven best teams in the league. I missed that memo. Like, I miss that, you know? And so, do you know how many turnovers they created defensively in the last eight games of the season? Take a guess. This elite defense that everybody talks about.

Not many, not many. Two. In eight games, they created two, turnovers in eight games. I mean, that's not, that's not on the elite level. It's one of the reasons why Washington was eight and eight. They couldn't create turnovers. So I think we, look, do I think the Jets are better?

No question. Do I think they'll be a formidable opponent? Yeah, no question. But they got to play the games to find out. And coaching matters in the NFL, how you get your team ready and how your team improves during the year matters. Yeah, you know, speaking of coaching, you've been around Brian Dayball, clearly. had a fantastic season last year for New York.

You know, speaking of television, you know, you turn on the four-letter network, every former player saying, Pam, Pam, Pam, Pam, Pam, Pam. I look at Seekoine Barclay, and if he plays for this $10 million, over a six-year career, he will have averaged $8 million. I mean, there are some players, right, making $800,000 that probably should be making $15 million. He's a guy, okay, maybe he should make a couple million more, but it's not, we're talking 10, 15%.

So when I see him talking like he's getting totally screwed, yeah, you're off a little bit, but I, you're in this, you're in the same vicinity. And were they getting screwed when he was MIA, although when they were paying him a premium, those years when he was injured, it goes both ways. What's your overall thought on this situation and just the overall standing of the running backs not being happy with their standing in the league? Well, it's a supply and demand thing, John, right? I mean, it's collectively bargained. So, you know, Barclay, to me, where I have a disagreement with Barclay is he doesn't impact the passing game. He averages under six yards to catch. Like, I would pay Austin Echler. I would have paid Josh Jacobs. Josh Jacobs is a force

in the passing game. Austin Echler deserves to get paid more money. I don't disagree. I would rather pay Austin Echler more than pay Keene and Allen the slot receiver. I would rather pay Josh Jacobs more than $15 million to hunter rent throw. But the system's kind of backwards. I don't disagree with that, but Barclay averages under six yards of catch. You know, it's, it's, it's, Barclays should be angry at the Giants because they gave Jones all this money when we all know, you and I both know their offense has to work around Jones, not through Jones. And so, you know, Barclay's not working for charity either now. We don't know what he turned down, right? We don't know how much money. He could have turned down a ton of money, but we don't know what he turned out. He's just

not happy that the position is to get paid, nor is it going up. But once again, that's supply in demand. I mean, Kareem Hunt's sitting out of air. Aaron Jones is a better back than Saconne Barclay in terms of all the things he does. He took a pick on him. I think Josh Jacobs a better player in Saquan Barclay. There's no question. I would take Jacobs over Saquan. Oh, I would too.

But he doesn't have the media behind him. You don't have the New York media behind him. He wasn't the second pick over on the draft. And then he wasn't a great player for his first three years. He didn't flash. I mean, last year he had 340 carries. He averaged almost five yards of carry. I mean, the guy was disruptive in the passing game.

He got stronger as to be. game went on, played hurt. I think the guy's sensational. But, you know, he's in the parking lot waiting to think he's got his deal done. That's how close it was. And it just, he didn't, he didn't take the deal. His agent apparently said, don't take the deal or somebody told him not to take the deal. But we don't know what that deal is, though. Like, we don't know what, like, we're saying they're underpaid. We're saying they're not getting respected. But these two guys turned down deals, what did they turn down? Do you think if the Giants would have let them both hit free agency and just tag neither of them. Would Daniel Jones have got a big offer somewhere?

No, of course not. That's what I said on my podcast. And so when Daniel Jones comes back to you, because you're going to be the highest bidder no matter what, right? And you and I both, no, quarterbacks don't leave to go somewhere else. They want to stay with their team. They want to stay where they're comfortable. They don't just, I mean, Kirk Cousins left because he couldn't stay, right? And he wanted to get out of that toxic environment, but for the most part, they want to stay. And so I would have said to, I would have just let them both. I would have easily let them both. See, I don't think you can be a general manager in the National Football League today

and be scared of free agency. Like, I don't think you'd be scared of them. I think you've got to be realistic enough to say, okay, that guy's liable. That guy's going to get paid. Where most teams make big mistakes are when they get a guy for cheap, okay, they bring a guy in. Like Jarrett Stidham, the Raiders bring Jared Stidham in. he plays two games, one really good game against the Niners.

When they're trying to sign them back, they still remember that nobody was after him when they got him. And then he hits the open market and he's got six or seven offers out there. See, that's when you get a little bit of a problem because you remember the guy before you brought him in. But when you know a guy who, when you know who the guy is, why are you scared of free agency? Here's what we'll pay. It's not the NBA where if you don't pay, if you don't pay Bradley Beal, you don't get a good player.

Like, there's other players out there. Is that a learned skill that, you know, Walsh or Belichick to be almost numb to the emotion with guys? Or is that something they have pretty early? Just that's the way they think about. They had it early because they both had a sense of, I don't want to call it arrogance, but they had a sense of everybody's replace

you know, except three or four guys. You know, and the only reason Walsh went out and traded for Steve Young was because, you know, Joe got hurt. And Bill was very good at understanding, like Bill would have been, if Bill had been around Russell Wilson, he would have traded Russell Wilson because he kind of, Bill could see when a quarterback's coming to an end. Yeah. Speaking about quarterbacks when they're coming to the beginning, Justin Fields is a guy. I know you're not super high on. I'm starting to, I don't know if you saw, he had a quote somewhere on a podcast last couple of days

that he guaranteed he's going to throw up for 4,000 yards. And the history of the franchise, no one ever has. Now, granted, they're not getting Montana young, Farve Rogers aren't playing for the Bears. But still, I mean, do you think your expectations for him are not high, correct? Well, I mean, he's never demonstrated he's a throw over the football. I mean, he's a one-look and run guy.

And the simple past are problems from his mechanics. fall apart. He's got a very flimsy deliberate. And, you know, it can go on the, it's like a golfer. You can go on the practice range and not have a bad swing, but when you get to a tournament and the pressure is on, that bad swing might show up again.

And so his decision-making, I mean, it's one look and go. And the way people defend them now is if they keep them in the pocket and say, you beat me a quarterback. You play quarterback from behind the center and beat me. See if you can do that. It becomes a harder game.

and, you know, he has to run and move. And once people take that away, I mean, he's turned the ball over at an unbelievable rate. He's been sacked 91 times. Now, that's not all because they got a shitty line. He holds the ball. He doesn't make quick decisions. It doesn't process through him. Will they get better?

I hope so. But to go from where you are to 4,000, that's too big of a lead. How do you factor in when you're in the GMC? guy circumstances around him. Sam Darnold's a good example, right? Had a very, very tough beginning to his career. And then right at the end in Carolina, really showed signs of life.

And clearly the 49er saw something. And guys like Fields, for example, because it's easy to argue, well, he's had shitty stuff around him. Where you go, Trey Lance hasn't played that much, but it doesn't get any better, right? Coach, talents. Is it usually just, well, I like this guy coming out, so I'm always going to like him?

Is that to tell you. I think that's the way it is. But I think you have to be realistic, right? Parcells used to say this all the time. And we don't get this in the league because we go over the top. But there's probably only two quarterbacks that don't have to be managed in the league. And I know that word when you say being managed is kind of a condescending term towards a quarterback. But quarterbacks are like baseball stadiums.

You've got to fit your team around the quarterback. A baseball team wants to build its team to the park, right? You know, if you're Fenway, you've got a short left feet, you know, you build your team around the ball part. Quarterbacks, you've got to build your team around the skill set of the quarterback. And Kyle does that really well. So when Kyle watches Sam Darnold, he doesn't see what Sam Darnold doesn't do. He sees what Sam Darnold can do in his scheme. Throw the ball inside the numbers.

You know, get the ball out of his hand, get it quick to somebody. It's the same thing with Garoppolo. Here's what we'll do with him. And here's how we'll build a team around Goropola. And I don't think teams do that enough. I think what Philly did with Jalen Hertz was really, really good. They just said, okay, we can't really run drop back pass. If we go to a drop back pass game with Jalen Hertz, it's not going to work.

We're not going to be able to hold the ball, he'll stare down a receiver, it won't work. But if we run a six-back offense where he's the main ball carrier or he's in the running game and we run play action, all of a sudden it opens a lot of doors. and he becomes a better player, right? And I think that's what we miss. And too many people want to run a scheme and not fit the player. I think Baltimore is an example.

Like Lamar Jackson should be under center more because Lamar Jackson is a disruptive runner. And when he's under center, you don't know if he's going to run or if he's going to run or he's passing. And you don't know if he's going to run a bootleg or if he's going to run a naked. And when he runs a bootleg, somebody's got to go out there with it. And that's the only play in football where where the defense with a quarterback

blocks somebody. Right? So you've got to build an offense around the skill set of the quarterback. And if you don't do that, and as a personnel director, you've got to build a team around that. Like Baltimore needs,

Baltimore needs big receivers with extended wingspan because Lamar's going to throw the ball and there's going to be a lot of times where you're going to have to make play. But when you bring in little receivers, like Arizona side has Hollywood Brown and Ron Delmore, and they got a niche in a quarterback.

Like, how are he throwing the ball? No, it doesn't make any sense. You know, I know you've been a fan of Lamar for a long since he was coming out. Their offensive coordinator, now it's one thing to say it. It's another thing. We'll see what it actually looks like. But keeps talking about spreading it out, throwing it more. Doesn't that negate his great skill of movement and running around?

Why would you, why would they do that? Because the media is telling them to do that. The media is telling them they need to do that. You got the four, the worldwide leaders saying, you know, they got those experts on there that tell you what they need to do, you know, one of the experts doesn't even think Joe Montana is the top five quarterback. So why would you pay attention? Like seriously, like, like they tell you this, like, no, like Lamar should be under center. It should be play action. You put Lamar with, with Kyle,

what do you think his numbers would be? If you put Lamar and he had Debo Samuel, a great slant inside, because as great as Debo is, Debo's done and outside the number receiver, Debo's an inside the number of receiver. And he's great with the ball on his hands, right? So that's what Lamar needs. It's what A.J. Brown is. That's what made Hurt so good. They got a receiver that fit his skill set.

Meanwhile, Baltimore's got these little guys. I know they've got Bateman and now they got Zay Jones. I mean, Zay, you know, the kid Flowers. Zay Flowers, yeah. You know, like you've got to fit the receivers to the quarterback. You've told a story when you were in Cleveland. I think you interviewed him for the offensive coordinator job, but it was Kyle.

And I think you told the owner. and like this guy should be the head coach. When you think back talking to him, that the first time you ever talked to him and what really stuck out when you spoke with him? His dad called me on the phone. I know his dad well. I love his dad.

His dad said, you should interview Kyle for the OC. Now remember when Kyle's in Washington, he's getting killed in the press, partly because of the owners, leaking stuff to the media, the former general manager, you know,

the whole RG3 thing, right? So we bring them in. And Mike Patton's the head coach already and he goes in the interview and he starts talking about his offense and I'm sitting in the room and he knows how to coach every single position what he wants from every single position what he's looking for from every single like he went through the entire thing offensively defensively defensively will give some trouble and it was the most impressive interview that I've had uh you know other than like when we talked to Josh McDaniels at the you know when he was in New England

the same thing I mean those guys that understand how to move the football they understand the whole game. They know how everything ties together. They just don't know the play. They know the offense. He was by far. He easily should have been the head coach, easily. When you look at his quarterback situation,

if I give you the hypothetical that Darnold beats out Lance, so Lance is the third string quarterback, assuming Purdy's okay and all signs point to him on track, if you were in charge, would you keep him, like you expect him to be on the team come week one if he's the third string quarterback well i don't think lynch or adam peters are going to want to trade them they don't want to have to swallow that pill right you know because they're the ones that really wanted them to do it so i i don't think they'll i think they'll keep them but there's no way he can be the two

because if you're kyle whoever it purdy's the starter you want somebody similar to purdy that's going to go in there if you have to put them in the middle of the game and you got to go You don't want to change to where you've got to change the offense a little bit where, okay, now we need to go more. Because this whole conversation, do you remember how it all started about why they wanted to draft Traylands? Because Kyle's offense was getting stale. Remember that? That was the rhetoric that they needed to change the offense to do all that. So they just had like a record year last year offensively.

Once somebody got in a quarterback, we knew what they were doing besides Barapol. They moved the ball because they just need a guy to complete pass. It's not that complicated. They got to run after the catch guys. Kyle makes the position really easy. Throw it to this guy. Make it so that you throw it to this guy while he's on the move because he'll run with it after the catch and you'll get all the yards.

Yeah. I'll get you out of here on this. They're not around anymore. I think they're two of the more historic guys in the history of the sport, Walsh and Al Davis. You've been around them. What do you think they would think of just 2023, the National Football League? Well, I mean, Bill would have been brain.

he would have been divergent and thought he would have looked at everything and would have come up with a zig to the sag Al would have been obsessed with how to stop the running quarterback.

Because bootlegs and naked strove him crazy and this RPO stuff would have drove him crazy because Al was a defensive coach at heart. He loved defensive football. And I think both men would have would have relished in the evolution of the game because they both love the game so much. Do you think it's a little unfair how people remember him kind of for that last,

especially my, you know, people like 45 and younger, that the last five, six years. It is kind of sad. I mean, he wasn't, you know, it was a part in his life where I think there were a lot of things going on for him. You know, he was not really adaptive to change. He didn't want to change and he didn't trust anybody. And the older he got, the less he trusted people. when he listened to a lot of wrong people

and he kind of fell into a comfortable area. It's just challenging when someone's as dominating and as great as he was and how they just leave kind of easily. And that was a hard thing. In my new book, I talked loewingly about him, about

Simon Lance Altworth, about being part of the tree, the Earl Blake tree that he was in, you know, in the press box for Sid, the Gilman, when the charges were playing in San Diego, you got Sid Gilman on the sideline, you got Joe Mondro's line coach, Al Davis is the offense coordinator,

and Chuck Knowles is the defense coordinator. That's the press box. Wow. And Jack Faulkner, the former director of player personnel, is on the sidelines too. That's pretty impressive. That's all they had.

What do you think he would have told you of when your son came walking into your office in 1999, you said he's going to be the offensive coordinator for your raiders one day? I mean, I wouldn't believe it, but I mean, look, it's a great opportunity for him. What would Alice said? Oh, kid, he would have just said, kid, he would have said the same thing he used to say to me. At some point, kids, you're going to have to play in the game. Well, Mike, I appreciate the time.

Don't spend too much time at the beach. Football's right around the corner. Listen forward to listen to you on the GM shuffle and have a great day. Thanks, John. I appreciate you. Volume Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy

Not quite Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends Me and hilarious guests From Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman Help make you funnier This week my guest SNL's Mikey Day And head writer Streeter Seidel

Help an a cappella band With their Between Songs banter Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes Those people are starving for banter Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends On the Iheart Radio app Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app. or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.