The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 3 and Out - Rodgers Drama Deja Vu, Gruden v. NFL, Eagles NFC East Odds, Holdouts

Episode Date: June 6, 2022

John discusses the constant drama Aaron Rodgers creates by repeatedly discussing retirement, why Jon Gruden’s lawsuit against the NFL is guaranteed to get uglier, why he likes the Eagles more than the Cowboys in the NFC East, and his philosophy on dealing with the looming training camp holdout contract disputes. Subscribe NOW and follow Middlekauff and The Volume on Twitter, Instagram and YouTube for the latest content and updates. Go to  FanDuel for the best wagering and daily fantasy action! #herdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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three and out podcast. Back at it again Sunday afternoon. just got a little workout steam shower watched the little PJ tour golf now I'm just I'm feeling good I'm feeling good and I said you know what let's fire up the mic I was browsing the internet

saw a couple things that I was like you know what I'll talk about that Aaron Rogers John Gruden Cooper Cup and I saw actually something Von Miller he it's he went live on Instagram a couple of a couple nights ago, and it kind of got me thinking.

So 3 and out podcast, subscribe to the podcast. If you listen on Collins' feed, subscribe to my feed, share it with your friends, share with your enemies, share it with whoever, as well as we do a Middlekopf mailbag at John Middilkoff. At John Middilcoff is a mailbag, fire up in those DMs and get your question answered here on the show. It's very, very easy. Hopefully you guys all had a good weekend.

And, you know, it's full speed ahead. Summer's here. It's hot. Time to sweat. And let's enjoy the sun. Get some vitamin D. But let's start with a really quick on, Von Miller. He was the other night, he does his past rushing summit.

And Chandler Jones, Max Crosby, Simmons from Tennessee is there. And a lot of people now are doing these. Obviously, George Kittle does a tight end summit with Greg Olson. They've been doing that for a while, tight end university. I think other positions are starting to do this. And it just kind of hit me how cool that is. Because the unique part about football, like in basketball,

Michael Jordan used to befriend you to then kill you. He used your friendship as a weakness because ultimately he was a cold-blooded killer. And in basketball, if I become friends with you, ultimately I have to play against you in the sense of, I'm on the court while you're on the court

and I play offense and I play defense. In football, if I'm a tight end and you're a tight end, even if we become friends, we'll never go up against each other. We are never on the field at the same time. So Vaughn Miller, who's now on the Bills, and Jeffrey Simmons or Chandler Jones on the Titans and the Raiders, a couple other playoff teams,

they will never go up against each other. While they want their teams to beat the others' teams, they are not necessarily foes in the sense. of Tom Brady wouldn't hang out with defensive linemen. That would be a little weird. But when you get defensive linemen hanging out with defensive linemen or wide receivers hanging out with wide receivers, it's just the highest level of a high level industry

people picking each other's brains. And I was just thinking like part of this is social media and this has been going on. It's not like guys haven't been friends before, but the ability to communicate now with emails, text messages, social media, the connection of these guys. pretty cool. You know, whatever you do, if you're in an industry that's considered, you know, very competitive, anytime you get a chance to just pick the brain of other people that do what

you do at a really high level and are really good at what they do, that is a benefit. That is a good thing, you know? I mean, I've had the opportunity. I shadowed Colin Coward a couple years ago. It was very enlightening. I still think about it every once in a while, four years later. just when I went to his office and went to a couple shows and watched how they prepared and got ready. It was awesome. You know, imagine doing that as a defensive lineman meeting 15 other defensive linemen that are all pro bowlers. Imagine if you're the top sales guy in tech meeting all these other tech sales guys. And I'm sure you do because a lot of these tech companies have these summits.

But for individual companies, you don't necessarily get to meet people in other companies, right? Maybe you do. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't know. It just feels like a very unique, cool thing that obviously happens in some other industries, but football is such a public job. And to see these guys really enjoying it and making an effort is really cool to see. You know, it just kind of hit me.

Like, you know, that's awesome. Aaron Rogers, he's brought up now a couple times. Obviously, he played in the match with Brady hit the final put on hole 12 to knock out Mahomes and Josh Allen, which they should have. Mahomes and Josh Allen are not good at golf. Tom Brady, not that good of golf either. Obviously, Aaron Rogers of the four was the best golfer. But for the last, you know, 12, probably 15 months,

there's been a lot of drama around Aaron Rogers. I would say ever since Aaron Rogers lost to Tom Brady in the NFC championship game, it's just been a little weird. Not on the field. He has been excellent. He has been the best player in football, arguably the last two and a half years running. He has been incredible. At the peak of his powers, first ballot hall of fame career,

one of probably the five, six best quarterbacks we've ever seen. But last year with the immunization comment, created a lot of drama. Obviously, in his shoes, he didn't like fighting back, and it just was a pain in the ass for everyone involved. Personally, I wasn't bothered. I don't care.

I've never once thought in two and a half years. I wonder if that guy's vaccinated. I do not care. It has never crossed my mind. I'm sure some people listening would fall under my shoes. Other people listening would be like they think about it all the time. I can't relate to that. I never think about it.

But the Aaron Rogers thing didn't really bother me, though I understood why it became such a polarizing topic. A huge part of it was it was him, right? It was that guy. My whole defense of it was the team knew, the teammates knew. Who gives this shit? The media hates when they don't know. They love controlling everything.

And when they feel they're left out of the loop, ooh, they get mad. And especially if it's something they're out of the loop on something that is a side that they're very passionate about. And I don't even know if they are, but they pretend they are on social media. That's a whole other can of worms. But bottom line, Aaron Rogers brings some drama. There is no avoiding that. And every time he says, they just gave him $150 million guaranteed.

$50 million a season. And he's worth it. You're the best quarterback in the most important league in America. you're worth a lot of money. I have no issue with the compensation. Easy contract to do. 50 million, you want it. Here you go, buddy. My main issue though is, and clearly when you make a lot of money, there aren't many people you can talk to about your problems. Right. If I'm making $20 million, I can't just come on this podcast and complain about everyday people things, even though just because you make $50 million or $50,000, we all have everyday people problems, right? In our relationship,

relationships with our kids, with our parents, the fucking garbage man. Who knows? The UPS guy, whatever. The same thing affects me as affects you as affects Aaron Rogers. But no one wants to hear it from the super rich guy. And I do think he's got to be careful because, let's face it, Aaron Rogers loves money. There's no denying that. And I have no problem. Like, I'm not one of those people that like, that's a bad thing. Of course he loves money. His position is highly compensated. He deserves every penny, and it was a big deal for him to be the highest paid quarterback in the NFL, which he now is on a per year basis. Obviously, Mahomes' contract is longer, younger, whatever. But just per year, Aaron Rogers, the highest paid guy. And clearly he demanded to be the highest paid guy.

And that's why he makes $50 million. Again, no issue with it. Capitalism, all for it. My main issue, though, is like he's like complaining. Because I do believe that he says he thinks about retirement all the time. and it's not about the football part. Aaron Rogers loves playing football. He probably likes practice. He likes preparing for the games. He hates the whole meaty aspect.

He hates that he gets painted at a villain. And he's clearly one of the polarizing guys in the league that we talk about all the time. Why? Because he's a quarterback and we don't talk about guards. We don't talk about safeties. Quarterbacks move the needle beside teams and coaches. If you're in this business, that's what you end up talking about. And I understand if put myself in his history,

issues, that would wear me fucking out too. I would get so tired of having talked to reporters and the same questions over and over, week in, week out, and especially once I saw what happened last year. I would hate them all. My main issue, though, is like, constantly talking about retirement, Aaron, you're not going to retire. You're making $50 million a year for the next three years. And you're no dummy, you know they don't pay that post-retirement. They pay that in the National Football League, in the NBA, in Major League Baseball, you don't make that money outside. Because think about this. How many people in America make $50 million a year that have zero ownership, zero equity? Not many. Professional athletes and probably some singers, maybe an actor or two,

probably not many. It's a small percentage. Most people that make $50, $100, $200 million are business owners, CEOs with a lot of equity in the company. Presidents of companies, again, that have equity in the company. Aaron has zero in the Green Bay Packers. He is, honestly, I don't know. Is there anyone more highly compensated on a poor year basis in all of professional sports? In America, maybe some guys, you know, Messi or Ronaldo or some of those guys in European soccer. But he just wants to complain.

You know, that's, and listen, I like to complain sometimes too. But I would say you got to be hesitant about complaining. about you're not going to retire. We know that now. You threatened it two years ago, didn't do it. Threatening it now again, you just signed $150 million contract. You're just trying to, I don't know, create more drama. It's pointless.

I would recommend stop saying this. I really would. Now, I understand he gets asked the question, but I don't even know. Maybe no comment. No one wants to hear about your retirement when you're making $50 million a year. Vic Tafer, who buddy of mine, covers the Raiders for the Athletic, wrote like his off-season piece and just different things that were going on with the Raiders. And one thing he said in terms of John Gruden and the lawsuit with the NFL is that it's not about the money.

John Gruden is filthy rich. I knew people in a specific industry that were involved with John Gruden when he was with, when he was doing Monday Night Football and some of the brands in which he pushed. and they said his price point to get involved with the brand was stupid high. So beside the ESPN paying him $10 million, what a couple of those major brands were paying him was an astronomical amount of money. He was compensated like he was Patrick Mahomes, Aaron Rogers, Steph Curry. Instead, he was just John Gruden, a failed football coach. Now listen, in a vacuum as a football coach, it's pretty clear John Gruden is, he's no longer overrated because we all. know he's just an average football coach.

What was glaring is like the hype that happened when he was outside of the NFL working at for Monday Night Football, we thought, I thought he was going to come back like the offensive Bill Parcells, this hard nose kind of asshole, but an offensive guy, and he was just terrible. He wasn't any good relative to the hype. But what happened to him with the NFL was clearly shady. He was a target, the NFL, or someone. I don't know.

I mean, I'm not, I don't have the information. No one's told me. He truly believes that Roger Goodell specifically leaked that information to the New York Times of his emails. Because let's face it, they were going after the commanders, they were going after the football team, and Dan Snyder. And the only guy that got taken out was John Gruden. So I understand John Gruden being mad. But let's face it, this is about ego. This is about pride.

This is not about getting some $100 million check from the NFL. If I just think who John Gruden is, an egomaniac, the NFL, or if it wasn't them, the lawyers or whatever, someone leaked at ruin the guy's career. You never say never in 2022. Things change fast. People come back. You go from, you know, we all think Phil Mickelson's career is over in a year. Maybe he'll have the greatest comeback story ever. You just never know. We see it time and time and time again with professional athletes. athletes, with actors, with famous people. You can have a comeback. But I feel pretty confident, mainly because as a coach, again, in a vacuum, John Gruden wasn't that good. Any Raider fan would tell you.

They were expecting a lot more. Now, you could argue it was trending in the right direction. I think by no means it was a guarantee the Raiders would have made the playoffs with John Gruden. I could not say that and keep a straight face. But I do understand, and if I'm John Gruden, I'm going after the NFL. and I want to go to court. And he clearly does. Now, you can separate what he said,

you know, shouldn't be email on that. No one's, I'm not acting like what he said, I'm giving the okay to. But I also understand from his shoes, like they came after, I was the only guy that got taken out. I was the only guy that got whacked in this whole thing. And he's too rich to care about the money.

Because ultimately, you don't sue someone when you're as rich as him just for the cash, especially when you have the hatred toward Roger Goodell. And clearly, I think people think Roger Goodell hates John Gruden. Never forget, Roger Goodell's brother is gay. And I don't know any other interactions with them, but from what I've heard, some buzz on the street, they were not the closest of buddies. And I think this thing's going to get pretty ugly. And if it does come out that Roger Goodell leaked it, I don't even know what my take would be.

It would just be like, damn. That was, uh, I still don't understand, though, how. they went after Dan Snyder and the only guy that got taken out was John Gruden. That still is a head scratcher to me. But that happened. The Eagles. And listen, you gotta be careful this time of year about making too big a deal about OTA stuff.

Because ultimately, and I've gone to a couple OTAs the last couple weeks, guys are in shorts, guys are basically in T-shirts, helmets. Even Kyle Shanahan a couple weeks ago for a team drill took their helmets off. Because he's like, we just didn't, we wanted to keep it very. very, very, like, two-hand touch. And sometimes with a helmet, you can get a little more physical than even you should be when you're not wearing pads.

But they took helmets off. So the OTAs, I've even gone the other way. I defend Aaron Rogers, Tom Brady. The OTAs mean nothing to them. Though, I do understand when you're paying a guy $50 million, you would like him to attend OTAs. And I did see that LaFleur, I think the Packers OTAs was horrendous by all their vets.

Let's face it, Aaron's leading the charge there. And he was pissed off. Don't blame him. Like, hey, hey, guys, we're paying y'all a lot of money. We just a couple weeks a year in the offseason. You got a five-month-a-year job? It pays you $25 million. Must be nice.

Some of those work year-round. So I'm not trying to overreact to shorts and t-shirts, but when you get rookies on the field, you can see movements, you can see instincts, you can just see how comfortable they are walking around and carrying themselves. And several reports, and this, I don't have inside information, I haven't even asked anybody. But then Nkoby-Deen has been excellent so far for the Philadelphia Eagles.

And who knows? I mean, the Eagles, let's face it, don't exactly have Ray Lewis, you know, Brian Erlocker and Luke Keechley walking through that door at linebacker historically. Their linebackers typically are the weak part of their defense. They usually have good secondaries and they usually have good defensive lines. Linebackers can be a little hit or miss. If Nicopi Dean, if they got an all-time steel, they're in pretty good shape.

And this draft, because Jordan Davis is not going to suck. And I talk to a lot of people. I'm telling you, one thing I feel very confident on right now, I like the Eagles more than the Cowboys. And usually I don't bet against a team that I feel has a way worse quarterback, and I would take Dakota over Jalen Hertz. But I don't know if the gap is as far as I once thought. And in terms of the rest of the roster,

in which everything that the Cowboys lost, and also I don't like their coach. I do not trust Mike McCarthy. Not like Nick Siriani has proven that much. He's coached one-year-y-one games. but if you told me I was the GM of a team and I had to pick a coach, I'd take Nick Siriani over Mike McCarthy on the simple fact that I would never hire Mike McCarthy.

And the fact that Nick Siriani is proven he's a past game guy, yet came to the Eagles and they shifted into a run-heavy team. Now, clearly last year they benefited a lot from the schedule at the end of the year. But I'm telling you, if the Eagles, if Nacobi Dean all of a sudden can play 17 games, like if Nacobi Dean is on the field, he's going to be good. it's impossible for Nacobi Dean to be on the field and not be good. That's a fact.

I mean, no one in the NFL would argue. But the reason he fell was because everyone thought his shoulders was going to be messed up. And I remember long time ago when I was doing Raiders stuff, the Raiders had the fourth overall pick and they were choosing basically between two guys.

It was Leonard Williams, who is now on the Giants and Amari Cooper. And ultimately Reggie McKenzie took Amari Cooper. And his mindset was simple. It was twofold, really. You wanted to get a wide receiver with his quarterback, but he also, they had Leonard's shoulder red flagged. And ultimately, it was proven he made the right pick. Though Leonard is, you know, I would say turned around his career for sure. But Leonard didn't need shoulder surgery for a while. Played. Now, not that impactful

early on his career. But my point is simply being, you're going off of a doctor. So doctors missed. Like, doctors aren't always right, you know? It's like not everything they say is, you know, as a general manager, when they tell you, listen, I don't think this guy is going to be a second contract guy. Sometimes they are 100% right. Sometimes they miss. And it's just, he's going to be a fascinating study because if all of a sudden, Nacobie Dean has 127 tackles and is on a double-digit win team

and is the green doc guy for a really good defense, people are going to be kicking themselves. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where

you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast. Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking.

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is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast. Learn the hard way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the hard way and listen now. Cooper Cup, he's not holding out. And I'm going to say this over and over.

All holdouts are not equal, even though Cooper Cup's comment was because they asked him, are you going to be at mandatory mini camps? And he was like, well, I'd be the first guy to skip mandatory minicamp, but go to the voluntary stuff. Like he's bent the voluntary stuff. He's under contract.

He's already made money. Aaron Donald's under contract, already made money. I don't even think he's been around. McVeigh got married this weekend. if I was certain players, like if you're going for your third contract, I give you less juice for a quote unquote holdout

a mandatory minicamp. I do understand guys like Debo Samuel, DK Metcalf if you wanted to take this route as well, not going to mandatory minicamp. Because under no circumstances, can I take another full speed rep in mandatory minicamp, in training camp, let alone a game,

without a big contract? Because guys that are second, third round picks that have earned new contracts. Now, we can argue on the value of it, and I would argue the 49er side on the value of Debo. Debo is not worth what Diggs and Devonte and Tyreek Hill are worth. They simply have done it way longer. Their resume is quadruple the length of Debo.

But Debo has earned a new contract. No one would debate that. He is a $20 million player for sure. Now, in terms of guarantee, how you structure it, he is a guy that's battled some injuries, he is a guy that came into camp out of shape, but he's also the heartbeat of the team. I do think these situations can be complicated. And there's nothing wrong with having complicated situations. Now, there's a difference of like, Debo's a complicated situation.

Deshaun Watson is a disastrous situation. But not all holdouts or not all contract disputes are the same. Like I also view the Rams and Aaron Donald, who also discussed retirement, which I don't necessarily buy. I just think he wants a lot more money in which he deserves. But I also have said over and over where the Rams are sitting, that's a complicated negotiation. Right. It's just like he's a 31-year-old guy, a lot of tread on the tires. Can he maintain it for the next four or five years?

And the counter argument be, he's always in great shape. He's been very durable. He's an elite player. he carried you to Super Bowl literally last year. I get both sides. But it's okay to have an argument. To me, Debo Samuel is a legitimate, you know, test case for the 49ers.

What do you do? Also, because wide receivers make so much money now. But when you have a rookie quarterback and a wide receiver who you don't even need to throw it too deep down the field, you literally can just hand him the ball. You know, and you have a young court, you don't have a choice. And sometimes you get your back against the wall.

Where, you know, John Robinson, had a quick pivot. Clearly internally, you can like AJ Brown and go, you know what? His durability, he's got some issues. We're not willing to pay him $24 million a year. And the Eagles who go, God, we need another wide receiver to go Devante Smith, made the move.

And they also benefited because they had a lot of picks. So some of these, like, it's okay to, like, Lamar Jackson. I'm a guy who was very critical of Lamar coming out of college. I didn't see it. I was like a running quarterback who's not that accurate. Then I underestimated his character, how much he's beloved in the room. I underestimated his work ethic because he's got more accurate throughout his career. And I've underestimated just how dynamic the guy is.

He's incredible. He wouldn't be my first choice, but I'd have no problem as Lamar Jackson being my quarterback. Sometimes we're wrong. Love Sam Darnel. He's been a disaster. So you just never know. But once you have it, you have to go it off the information you have. It's why typically I'd be like, I'd be hesitant to sign running quarterbacks.

The Ravens have no choice. There is no Ravens without Lamar Jackson. They don't exist. I know they won a game with Tyler Hunley. Give me a break. Like the reason that John Harbaugh got a contract extension and their organization is held to a high regard again is because of Lamar Jackson.

We saw for several years before he showed up, they were in shambles and John Harbaugh was going to get run out of town. So like, I don't know what they do. If I was Lamar Jackson under no circumstances, am I taking another snap until I get my bread, until I get my, you know, enormous guaranteed, which I've earned and deserve. But I also understand from the Raven standpoint, you know, just big picture.

I don't actually, I don't really. I mean, you just got to pay them. I mean, you're willing to draft them, then you make them restart or all your chips from the middle of the table. You build your whole offense around them. Like, who are you going to pivot to? Like, what are your other options? Like, you know, with the 49ers, like, they don't have any other options with

Debo Samuel. Ultimately, the Titans, you'd be like, I don't want to get rid of A.J. Brown. Well, what do they do? they traded, they immediately took Trailing Burks right there in the first round. You have to plug a hole. You can't just get rid of something then what's the hole?

That happened with John Gruden with the Raiders. He got rid of Amari Cooper and then he got rid of Cleo Mac and he couldn't fill the hole for a couple of years. That's why their team was like stuck in a ruddleless pit. It's like, where are you going? And they didn't go anywhere for a while because he traded away to impact players

and he couldn't fill the void. So to me, these situations with holdouts like a lot of it is like you need, that player. You need that guy. The Rams can't function without Aaron Donald. You know, he is probably the best non-quarterback in the league. Easily

in the discussion, top two or three non-quarterbacks in the league. Him, Trent Williams. You know, I mean, it's on a short list of, you know, I'm probably I guess you could say a wide receiver, but I would take a left tackle or a pass rusher over a wide receiver in a fucking heartbeat. And Jalen Ramsey isn't as good as those two guys.

So you could argue the best two non- quarterbacks in the league are a pass rusher and a left tackle. And yeah, this is just coming down the home stretch. Got a couple weeks left till summer break for football. And we get to soak up the sun. They get to soak up the sun. And then we come back for training camp. So have a good week.

Have another podcast out Tuesday. Adios. Talk to you soon. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel,

help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care what I'll say it. Yep, that's me. Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford Show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hardway with your favorite therapist and host, Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor. It signals to the world that you not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to. Listen to learn the hard way on the AHA radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

This is an IHeart podcast Guaranteed Human