The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 3 and Out - Rodgers Endgame; Eagles Draft Room Drama; Draft Value Reality; Mailbag

Episode Date: May 7, 2021

In this episode, John looks at the reality of the Aaron Rodgers/Packers standoff and the likely anti-climactic endgame. He also explains why the viral video of disagreement in the Eagles war room is being blown out of proportion, the reality about internal draft board debates, and why the media's opinion about late round draft value is irrelevant. He also answers listener questions in the Middlekauff Mailbag. Follow John on Twitter and SUBSCRIBE now to get all the latest content!! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Your husband is not who you think he is. Your body is not what you thought it was. Your identity is formed by a secret history. I'm Danny Shapiro. And these are just a few of the stunning stories I'll be exploring on the 14th season of Family Secrets. He kind of shoved me out of the way and said, move. And he went out the front door and he jumped in a car and drove off. And that was the last time I saw him. Listen to season 14 of Family Secrets on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This season on Dear Chelsea, with me, Chelsea Handler, we have some fantastic guests like Amelia Clark. When like young people come up to me and they want to be an actor or whatever.

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And we're here to talk football. And the draft is over. OTAs are up in the air. Feels like they're happening, but the union, I don't know. We'll just wait and see you approach on that one. And of course, Aaron Rogers' drama is still full swing. So we will dive into that, as well as some thoughts on a couple other things that, something I've noticed around the draft, around the draft content with NFL network and ESPN

that I just, just makes me want to puke. Something that a listener DM me about Howie and the video that went viral in the Eagles front office and just a dude just had a question because Howie had some comments on local radio in Philly about how everyone has their own draft boards and it's stuff that obviously I just know but I don't know if everyone quite knows how that works and I just I wanted to dive into that middlecough mailbag of course at John Middlecough is the Instagram handle slide up into those DMs get here on the show if you're listening on Collins feed I would greatly appreciate it if you would subscribe to the three and out feed separately helps with everything leave a review

a lot of you have, but if you could, leave a review, Apple iTunes, we're over 2000, that helps us as well, sell the show, keep food on my table, and a roof over my head, and my air conditioning pumping. Because last year, my air conditioning actually went out, and I learned a lesson of adulthood. That the things that make air conditioning is happening, happen, this little thing called an H-PAC, aren't cheap.

It was an expensive purchase. Luckily, it's all intermingled in the business. In my accountant, we write that bad boy off. It's a nice little write-off. We'll see, actually. I haven't got confirmation how much if we can write, you know. It's a five-figure purchase. You know, you're like, wait, you can't just fix my air conditioning for $1,000?

Like, yeah, just multiply that by about eight or nine. Holy moly. But you can't be too hot, you know. You need the air to flow. And I wanted to dive into Aaron Rogers because the story, we're a week into this thing, Full disclosure, I'm already a little over it because I don't necessarily think anything's happening in the near future. Just a lot of stuff through the media.

And that, I don't know, boars me. And don't get me wrong. Like, I love good rumors. I love good salacious stuff. But maybe I'm just kind of worn out by this entire offseason with Russell Wilson, obviously Deshaun Watson, and now Rogers. I think we've all kind of set our piece where we fall in this situation. but he's the MVP of the league.

He hates the Packers. He's calling the GM Jerry Krause, which the irony behind calling the general manager Jerry Krauss, do what Brian Gutikins would do to have half the career of Jerry Kraus? He'd do a lot because if you watch the Jordan documentary, say what you want about Jerry Krauss, short, fat, didn't get along with everyone. He was really good at his job. Actually, he was a lead at his job.

Hired Phil Jackson, Land of Scotty Pippen, got Tony Cooch, Dennis Rodman, you name it. Like, he was elite. I mean, he was big time. And if Aaron, like, are you Michael Jordan in this situation? Because Michael would have won, right? Michael ain't losing Lambo home NFC championship game. But I'm not trying to get off on here on a tangent.

Let's just focus on what the end game is here. Because that's my problem with this story. Like, ultimately, with the Texans, it was like before Deshawn Watson, the Saad's therapist. Is the guy ever going to play again? Who even knows? Back when that was actually a story, I mean, shit, this has been a crazy offseason.

Had tipped to Matt Stafford, who didn't say a peep, who just went to owner after the season. Now, granted, their team sucked and they were going to fire another head coach, and then just got traded. It was very seamless transition. It was just very normal business.

Just, hey, you meet with someone behind closed doors, you have a serious meeting. They hire a head coach, you have a serious meeting with that group, and you move on with your lives. Now, this is obviously more, complicated, but let's just, let's just factor in, I just want to ask a couple questions. Does Aaron Rogers, is simply he wants more money?

I think it's fair to say the answer on that is no. He already has unlimited money. I know technically his contract isn't guaranteed, but it's like reigning MVP, he's making $37 million. Money's not the root of his issues. He's always been paid a premium since he won. Really, if you look back, go to his wiki page. For those non-die-hard Packer fans, he was extended that first year.

Now, granted it was his fourth season in the league, but his first year starting, they extended a midway through the season. Good job by Ted Thompson. So it's not a, he's been paid a premium on and off the field for a decade plus. He has an unlimited amount of money. Not a money issue. That has never been an issue, him and the Packers, pitching pennies with Aaron. We can argue with other positions, for sure.

But with Aaron, his own pocketbook, his own contract, his own direct-up deposit, not an issue. Here's an issue, and I've talked about this before, and I think this is difficult, right? Me and you, whatever job we do, if we want to leave, it's easy for us to go to our boss or whoever, you know, and go, listen, I'm living in, I did it myself. When Daniel Jeremiah, when I was working with the Eagles, got hired at NFL Network, he was doing the West Coast Force. and I remember going, I got to get this job. I remember I used to drive DJ after meetings to the airport, and we would talk.

You know, there was a couple of West Coast guys. You know, we just, we could relate to West Coast culture. And I was like, DJ, I need to get this job. I need to fucking get out of Philadelphia. Not the Eagles. I just need to go back west. That is my home. These are my people.

I'm a West Coast guy. This place is cold. Even though I like Philadelphia and I like the culture, I was like, I want to move back home. But I still want to work in the NFL. I want your job. And it was important to me. Now, ultimately, I just went to Howie Roseman.

I said, what do I have to do to get the job? I went to our bosses at the time, even below him. Just what do I have to do to get the job? And it's easy. I'm sure a lot of you, you know, listening to this, if you've changed careers, a lot, sometimes it has to do with location. You want to move to a certain area.

I have actually a lot of friends because, you know, just work in the Bay Area and the tech business, they've been able to move wherever they want. Now, we'll see if that changes, but it's like, hey, You can work from home. Well, you obviously wouldn't choose to live in San Francisco. If you could live in a cheaper place, a lot of people have moved cities, move states.

It's very, very normal. The problem is in pro sports, it's like, you know, the reason we give you a lot of money is you might have to be the quarterback of the Green Bay Packers. You might have to be the star player of the Milwaukee Bucks, right? For everyone that gets to play for the Miami Heat or the Miami Dolphins or the New York Jets, like, some people got to play in Minnesota. And Minnesota might be cool for like Adam Thielen is from there. if you're not from there, maybe you don't want to play there. Maybe you do. And some guys, you just become numb to it all. You're just kind of a hired gun, you pay, you play wherever you want. It's obviously different when you're a quarterback and he's been somewhere 16 years. And I get

it. Rogers is a West Coast guy. Maybe he just wants to move back West. His fiance, girlfriend, wife, I don't even know what she is now, but maybe she wants him to move West. You would think when she met him, it's like, what do you do for living? He's like, well, I play quarterback. Where do you play? Milwaukee, Wisconsin, Green Bay Packers. And if she doesn't know, know what he's, you know, football, which, you know, she might not. She goes, well, could you, could you live in L.A. and play quarterback? No, who knows? Who knows what the conversations have been? And maybe he's just simply doesn't want to live there anymore. But here's what you can't say if that's the case. He can't just come out and say, I hate living here. I don't, I, I've enjoyed my

time, I'm ready to move on. He can't say that. Because ultimately, he's going to be remembered as a Green Bay Packer legend. And while most of us on the outside, if we're not Packer fans, be like, bro, I get it. The Packer fans wouldn't like that. And you don't want to go out on a negative note, right? That's just, that's not the case. So that's not really an option for him. Even though when you look at the three teams that he wanted to get traded to,

the Niners, obviously it's like his hometown team. I mean, he's from Chico, but for those, you know, a couple hours away, whatever, his hometown team. And the Broncos and the Raiders. All west coast. He didn't list Miami. He didn't list the Jets. He didn't list the Eagles.

He didn't list the Patriots. Like, he wanted to come back here. Because here's the Niners, they went to Super Bowl a couple years ago. The Raiders, they've been to the playoffs one time in 18 years. Actually, I think it's 19 now. One time, 19 years. They have not sniffed the playoffs since John Gruden has been there. The Denver Broncos have been a disaster.

Now, you put Aaron Rogers on either one of the teams. They're a playoff team. The Broncos definitely are. They are loaded offensively. The Raiders, in theory, should be, but their defense stinks. Because here's the thing. And here's where I keep getting back to. Like, ultimately, if you don't want to work somewhere,

or I guess geographically, you don't want to be somewhere. I get it if things are bad. Like, if you work in a business and you feel you're underpaid, you're like, this company sucks. It's very understandable. It's actually very relatable. I think I can do better things somewhere else. But the Green Bay Packers, like his nitpicks with the franchise,

are first-class problems. You know, like when really rich people complain about, You know, they just, the water wasn't quite cold enough in first class. You know, it's like, you know, they, I didn't have hot water at my, my seventh house in Malibu. It's like, you know, we ain't relating to that. Like, ultimately, Aaron, like, you're paid a premium. You win one of the biggest brands in the league. And again, 26 wins the last two years.

The last two years, they've kicked ass and taken names. But especially last year, because they were better than the 19 team. They hosted the NFC championship game. hosted it. It doesn't get any better. You can be like, well, they don't have wide receivers. Well, they have the best wide receiver arguably in the league. Do they have other guys that are functional? Clearly, they have a star running back, they have a lead offensive line, their defense isn't that bad. There are no perfect teams. I love hearing this too. They're not doing, you know, maybe he's just jealous of what Tom Brady did. You mean Tom Brady, who never said a peep until he hit free agency

and then left? Also, when Tom Brady left the Patriots, he wanted to go to the Niners. They said no. They don't parallel each other at all. Tom Brady never, you know, lift the Patriots on fire while he was on the team. Kept his mouth shut and he played it out. Ultimately, Aaron, you sign the contract extension. Now, here's where I can relate. And I'm sure many people listening can relate. When I worked in radio, I worked for a guy that I can't even describe them. You remember, if you've ever seen Howard Stern, the movie Private Parts, he called the dude who's actually in, uh, uh, I forget the actor's name on top of my head, but he's in billions. Called him pig vomit. That was a nickname when I worked in radio we had for my second boss.

I had a guy that originally hired us, and then we had a second boss. He was like a television character. It was such a joke. I mean, I couldn't believe. I'm like, I worked my entire life. I got to the NFL. Then we got a radio show in the Bay Area, top five market in America. At the time, it was run by an ESPN executive, a former ESPN executive,

that had run Dan Patrick. It just felt like a really high-level operation. It was like it's different than the NFL, but it felt like we were really doing something. We were getting really good ratings, and then we had a management change, and we worked for a guy that we named Pig Vomit, which we basically just stole from Howard Stern,

which is also, there's an episode in Seinfeld that also we used to make fun of. I can't, I don't even want to talk about it. It was that bad. And when you hate the guy you work for, it is hard to function. It really is. So if these reports are that he despises management, now I understand it, and I get it,

and I would say it's going to be really hard to function. But what would have changed in the last three months? Like, if he hated management during the season last year, which is safe to assume, he was able to compartmentalize and win the MVP. Because the thing is, like, when you work a normal person, job, you answer to a boss, right? Whoever that is. Middle management, CEO, depending on what your company is, what you do. In football, I always say this about the owner and the general manager, but definitely the owner. People like, he doesn't like the owner. That was a thing with Deshawn

Watson. When the fuck are you going to see the owner? Occasionally at practice? It's not like you talk to him. Even the GM, if the GM is separate from the head coach, like it is in Green Bay, they might not talk in a month or two months. Now, if he hated the coach, I'd be like, well, that's not possible. They're not going to be able to function. It's why a lot of coaches get fired. When the star player hates him, he's got to go. But he hates the general manager.

Who cares? Scotty Pippin and Michael Jordan, if you use the Jerry Krause analogy, all you got to do is watch the documentary. They couldn't stand Jerry Krause. They kept winning championships because you can avoid them. It's not like you talk to him every day. You never do. So even if he thinks Brian Gutakins, I don't know, never met.

I know people that I guess know them, you know, speak highly of them. I can't say one way or the other. But if he thinks he's the village idiot, if he thinks he's pig vomit, if he can't look at him and just without getting incensed and angry, I would just say he's pretty easy to avoid. Like in the history of pro sports, coaches and players, when they despise each other, it's a powder keg, it's going to end. It's a lock.

that you cannot, maybe you last a year, maybe two, but you can't go on. Either the player or the coach goes. We all know that. A lot of players have hated general managers, or even owners. It doesn't matter, you keep playing. Like, it is an area that if he despises this guy who, I, listen, I hear this all the time. Like, you know, what about his drafts? You do understand a general manager's job is more than just picking guys in the fourth and fifth round.

Like, Goudicans hired Matt LaFleur. That's worked out pretty well. Gutikin's hired, I don't know, the Smith brothers. 55 has been a pro bowler of the back-to-back years. Easily the best pass rusher they've had the last couple decades, him or Clay Matthews. Like, I don't know, that's an elite signing. You get credit for free agency and hiring the coach. Like that, your job is more than just watch draft picks 365.

Now, I don't know their relationship. Obviously, the Green Bay Packers are a unique organization in all of pro sports because they don't have a true owner, so there's no one that can mediate this situation, there's no one that can broker peace. But I just don't know what the end game is here. Because who's trading Aaron Rogers? It doesn't make any sense.

They have a championship level team. They can't trade their best player? I can't see it. To go with Jordan Love? If Jordan Love's not good, they all get fired and they never coach or be a GM in the league again. Now, to me, the one team that makes sense,

at least has a quarterback to give them that they could justify and make the playoffs would be the Raiders. You get Derek Carr, who'd be good in that. offense and you think we can win 10 or 11 games with Eric Carr and get multiple draft picks from the Raiders who have been consistently bad so maybe one of those picks turns out to be pretty good now if you put Aaron Rogers on the Raiders or the Denver Broncos I don't think the

Denver Broncos make any sense unless they love Jordan Love and they didn't love him that much they took him at 27 last year he couldn't beat out the backup last year so to think that he would just be hit the ground running beer starting quarterback this year and take Denver four first rounders or whatever would be a pretty big risk So I don't really know necessarily where this goes. He can keep leaking. He hates these guys and they're douchebags and they're losers. And he, Jerry Krauss and he just can make pig vomits.

Well, I don't know what that means. Like, yeah, Aaron, what are we supposed to do? Trade you? You're the best player in the league. I just, I guess he can just keep making it ugly. That's my problem with this story. Now, I understand how big of a story it is. I just don't necessarily know the end game.

Because at what point in time do the Packers flinch? Like, okay, Aaron, just see it? training camp. Okay, he doesn't show up. Okay, we'll see a week one. Are you just never going to show up again? That's usually not the way it works. Not when you make 37 million dollars. You do the math. I think this year they pay out of 34 weeks of 17, but divide 37 by 34. He makes over a million dollars a week for 34 straight weeks. I don't know about you. I wouldn't be big on passing up that money, even if I had. Hey everyone, it's Ryder Strong and Wilfredel from PodMeets World. And now the Podmeets twirled podcast. We're two men who were completely clueless to reality TV, who now have covered

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I'm Danny Shapiro, and these are just a few of the stunning stories I'll be exploring on the 14th season of Family Secrets. And just then, we felt the plain turn in the air, so much so that the bags that were under people's seats just kind of flew into the aisle. Each week, we dive head first into the complex power of secrecy, how it shapes our identities and relationships, and how it ultimately can reveal to us our truest selves. My daughter, she's pretending she doesn't know, but is trying to cook and feed me and keep me alive because I wasn't eating anything

and me pretending like everything was fine. He kind of shoved me out of the way and said, move. And he went out the front door and he jumped in a car and drove off, and that was the last time I saw him. Listen to season 14 of Family Secrets on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Unlimited Wealth. I'd want more wealth.

I'd want more money. I'm sure Aaron does too. So I'd call his bluff. What am I to trade in the Broncos for all these first round picks? So I give him the Broncos, you start making the playoffs. What do you pick 24 every year do for me? Nothing. I just, that's my big question here.

What the hell is the end game for Rogers? Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows at Fox SportsRadio.com. And within the IHeart Radio app, search FSR to listen live. love to be remembered as the person who gives the best birthday gifts? I'm here to tell you that 1800flowers.com is your ultimate birthday gifting destination. 1,800 flowers has thoughtful and artfully created options that are guaranteed to deliver the best birthday surprise. Shop thousands of unique gifts at 1,800flowers.com for exclusive offers and great values. To order today,

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Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the ad council. And I wanted to dive into something. I realized sometimes things that may be normal the way I think for just some of the, you know, the nuts and bolts, the details within an NFL organization. Sometimes people don't quite realize what's going on, right? And I had someone DM me and asked me, can you explain this situation? Because one of the viral videos over the draft was Howie Roseman inside the Eagles offices, fist bumping. everyone after they had made a selection.

And he goes around the room, fist-bumping owner, you know, the assistant GM, personnel guys, and gets to Tom Donahoe. An older, former GM, was the GM of the Pittsburgh Steelers, lost a little power struggle with Bill Cowher.

And that's my mom. And then he was the Bill's general manager. And the video went viral, basically like, there's animosity. There's strife within the, Eagle's front office. And how he went on local radio a couple days ago and explained it.

He was asked on WIP, the big sports station in Philadelphia, if they're having issues. And his comment was this. That's ridiculous. Every single person on our staff has their own draft board. That's how we write up reports. Siriani has his own draft board. The vice president of player personnel, Andy Weidel has his own draft board. own draft board. Tom Donahoe has his own draft board. I have my own draft board. That's how we

rank players. That's how our system is set up to do that. We have an Eagles draft board that reflects a lot of things. And my job is to bring them all together. My job is to get the coaches, the scouts, the medical, the character as we do this part of the process. My job is to reflect all of that basically on one board. I listen to everyone try to make these decisions. And at the same time, someone may be unhappy because it may not be reflective accurately in all the information that they have or may not have.

So the reality is in any draft board or any draft room. Let's just use me as an example. If I am the college director of the Eagles, and like when I did the West Coast, I mainly just focused on the West Coast players. Now I may watch other guys in the West Coast. the draft that I'm asked to, but I am really focused on nailing my area. But if you're the college director, you're watching every high level, just every draftable

player. So your entire draft board is going to be your grades reflecting the draft, that draft class. But those are your grades. Just like as a general manager, whether you're Howie Roseman, Rick Spielman, John Lynch, you name it, you've written reports or definitely put a grade on, hopefully, every guy that you guys would draft. Every draftable player. It might not even be every guy you draft

because you're taking guys off the board. You watch him either he's not draftable for playing reasons or character reasons. And then the coaches get involved. If you're the head coach, you're watching, depending on your status within the organization, potentially all the draftable players as well. And then the defensive and offensive coordinators,

watching all the defensive draft prospects, watching all the offensive draft prospects. Now some teams streamline that process and don't make their defensive coordinator watch guys that they wouldn't draft because of scheme fit. So you don't waste any time. But for the most part,

defensive and offensive coordinators are watching a large, you know, scope of guys on offense. So every individual in, I would imagine, I just know from my own experience with the Eagles, has their own draft board. You have your own information.

Think about any business. You are making your own, if you're a sales guy, you're trying to make sales, you're making, you have ideas of companies that you get involved. Well, eventually you go,

hey, to the boss, to the CEO, I think we should do this. I think this is a really good idea. He may go, that's a terrible idea. And you may disagree, even though if his decision might be the right decision, ultimately. But at the time, you're not going to agree with it. In any company, the goal is for the company to make money. In any draft, the goal is for the team to draft the right players. Every single person in the room potentially has different opinions on a lot of,

guys. We've all heard these war stories. I was lucky enough to live it kind of, right, and just see arguments, but just over players in general. I saw it when I worked in college football about recruits. I saw it when I worked in the NFL about free agency, about the draft, about whoever. That's the nature of the business. You're arguing over players, whether we should keep, whether we should cut, whether we should acquire, whether we should draft. And then eventually you get passionate about a player. If you're Tom Donahoe, and clearly he wanted someone else. but that doesn't mean the Eagles or the Eagles draft board because we've all seen whatever team you like

I would imagine you've seen some of these videos where the whole group is in the room and some of these teams do a better job of it than others in terms of showing the fan right I think the Colts do a really good job and if you go to the Colts YouTube page you can watch draft meetings now they're not giving you all the good information

but you can just kind of all the scouts are in the room and they're talking and arguing over players Now, one guy thinks the guy's a third rounder, the other guy thinks the guy's a seventh rounder, and Chris Ballard, and it could be any team, sitting there with a clicker, and they talk it out. And eventually, you know what they do? They rank the player.

So if the GM overrides everyone and goes, I think this guy is ultimately a fourth round player, the guy with the third round draft grade feels better about where he ends up than the guy that thinks he sucks. That is the nature of the business. Do you know that most players that are drafted, I would say in the league? There is someone in that building, whether it be a scout, whether it be a coach that does not agree with the selection.

It just happened that the cameras were on and they caught the fist pounding thing. That is not only normal. I would say it's, it would probably be not normal if everyone agrees. Now, with super high-level players in the first round, there's going to be more agreement. But I would still say in the first round, especially past like the top five, there are going to be people that like, we should have taken the other guy. It's human nature. Think about whatever you do. Hell, think about being a kid.

Think about if you're listening to you're a parent. No one's ever on the same page. We're always disagreeing. Hey, dad, I want to do that. No, we're going to do that. Or do your wife. Hey, I want to eat here. Well, I want to eat here.

It's just natural. Eventually, I say it all the time. It's much easier. to make suggestions than decisions. Someone has to make a fucking decision. And ultimately how he's saying, like, we have one draft board. Right?

That's how we draft the players. But that doesn't, like, we don't erase everyone's individual draft boards. They feel like they feel about the player. So Tom Donahoe, he's not the general manager. It's not his call. If it was, he clearly would have taken a different player. But that is not,

that to me consistently all over the end of, NFL, every single pick, there are going to be people in the room, and this year it's weird with Corona, not everyone's allowed in the room. But if every coach and every scout was allowed in every draft room, you know, most picks aren't going to be Trevor Lawrence where everyone's on board. Most picks are going to be like, ah, we should have taken the wide receiver, we took a defensive guy, we already got defensive players, oh, we took the wrong, right tackle, we should have taken the other guy, I like that guy, whether it's an area scout, whether it's

a director, whether it's the offensive line coach, whoever, there is. is never consensus. And I know that every general manager says this. Whenever we finally set our draft board, all the disagreements go out the window, that's kind of bullshit. Because, yeah, I mean, you just have to agree, and like, that's where we're going to put them,

but I don't agree with where we have them slotted. I talked to a scout the other day. I'm like, what do you think about the guy you drafted in the second round? He's like, you know, I didn't love him. I didn't love him. Don't you think that guy high-fived during the draft when they took him? I was like, well, should they take him the other guy? He's like, I didn't like that guy either.

So, just, it's, that would probably be, if I got every area scout in the country and ask them about their draft, they would probably disagree with two or three of the picks. It's just the nature of, it's what makes scouting so healthy, is you get a bunch of different opinions and you try to make the best decision for the team.

And that's where being a general manager is pretty difficult. Because you have to listen to the people giving you the information. Plus, you are watching the player, factoring in the medical, factoring in the character, factoring in it at all, and you make a big picture decision. It is not an easy process. It's clearly not a black and white process. There are going to be a lot of successes and a lot of misses, because ultimately you're dealing with humans. You have no clue. Tom Donahoe might have been right. They should have taken the other guy. Howie might have been right. No one knows. So the reaction, You know, when everyone's jumping up and down,

we've seen it for my entire life. You have never watched a team take a first round pick where they don't freak out and throw a party. Unless you're Belichick. I went to Belichick's. Not Belichick. I mean, you could rename it Belichick. The Patriots Instagram account,

and I swear to God, they drafted Mack Jones. Belichick and he traded up in the second round for the Bama defensive tackle. They do not celebrate in that draft room. I mean, they do not celebrate. at all. People like, you think they're all in on Mac Jones? Well, based on his reaction in there, zero celebration. You have to appreciate Belichick for staying true to who he is. Never gets too excited.

I mean, he can't even fake it, right? Most draft rooms get excited when they make a first round pick. We know half the picks are going to fail. If I told, if I went into a draft room, just Team X, let's just, you know, choose the Vikings and say, hey, you know your first round pick? If I told them this the moment they drafted them. I have the ability to look into the future and your guy's going to be the biggest bust since Jamarcus Russell. It's going to be a disaster. You think they would celebrate? Of course not. Everyone when they make that draft pick thinks that they just drafted a pro bowler. We know that's not the case. I think the reactions in the draft room, like who cares?

The guy being mad, I mean, I think it jolted people because we're not used to seeing that. But it's not. That is normal protocol. Now, some people don't. Tom, like, as a younger scout, I would never do that. I would pretend to be happy. Even inside, I thought it was stupid. Hell, I knew I was probably getting fired my last draft. And I remember them taking Matt Barclay, and I was like, what are we doing? I remember being in the draft beside, we took Lane Johnson, Zacherts,

and then the rest of the picks, I was like, what is going on here? I didn't agree with them. But I just keep my mouth shut. If you're an old guy, you've been a general manager, if you're comfortable, you know, it's easier when you're older. to voice your displeasure. Coaches do it all the time. Coaches are much more blunt.

They make way more money. If you've been an offensive line coach in the league for 15 years, you've banked millions of dollars, it's easy to be like, yeah, I fucking disagree with this pick. Now, what happens is once the player comes, and I remember Jim Washburn told me this one time, one of the best position coaches I've ever been around. I think he's one of the best defensive line coaches

that's ever coached in the league. He said, you know, it's always easy for the scouting community to be like, you need to take this guy because he's good on film. Well, it's like, well, if the guy's a bad guy and this is the other part about the draft, is like, you know, most people on the outside don't know all the information.

I started getting stories this last week. I'm like, I didn't know this about this guy. I didn't know this about that guy. Good and bad. And Washburn was always like, you know, it's easy for you to be like, coach, this guy's a great player in the second round and he'll fucking kick ass

will be a great pass rusher for us. And then you read the character, like, terrible guy, pain in the ass. He's like, I have to deal with that once the pick happens. That's my problem. I sit with him every day. You just get to stay in your office. You know, bang out tape, do school calls, eat snacks.

I have to be around this guy every day for six months. And really, for several years. And if it goes bad, it sucks. For you, you just think, oh, we'll just sign another guy. And it is true. I mean, position coaches, the player becomes theirs. You know, the scouts are kind of done. They just get to watch.

They just get on the next draft, on the next free agent class. It then becomes the coaches. It's why a lot of times, in my experience, and just talking to different people, you know, friends in the league, coaches can get pretty outspoken during this draft process. It's pretty rare, you know, to see. Now, we just don't get that inside information. I just think Tom is kind of an old school grumpy hard ass.

He just disagreed. It doesn't mean that, like, I think it jolted a lot of people because they thought like, oh, they hate each other. No, it's very, very normal. Okay, this has been bothering me. It's always asked, but I've noticed it a lot this week because, listen, I understand television, they have to produce content. And once the draft ends, like, what are they going to do?

Especially the schedule release isn't out yet, it's kind of boring, it's why they do draft grades. Draft grades are basically just a grade based on what that human thought of the player. So, like, if I liked three of the five players, you drafted in the top four rounds, I'll give you an A. If I hated the players you drafted, I'll give you a D. Right?

It's like everyone hated the Doug Peterson hire. They gave him an F. They gave McAood to the Giants an A. One guy won a Super Bowl. One guy was laughed out of the building. Like it grades me nothing, right? Not in a classroom. Like ultimately you take a test, you either got the questions right or wrong.

The difference is we don't know. This a draft pick, a hiring. We're all just given our opinions. but to me a grade is concrete. Like you got a B plus. Based on what? Based on what you think? Right?

I don't even know what that means. Now, I'm like anybody growing up, I'm sure I read them all. I don't really pay that much attention. But I was watching the other night, NFL network, and they were talking about the biggest fallers, or no, it was the biggest steals,

guys that were the biggest steals in the draft. Well, of course, to be a steal, whether it was a former player, whether it was Charles Davis, they think a guy that went in the fifth or sixth round that that guy thought was a second round player. I don't know how this guy fell, but he is a steal. And one of the guys, it was Ohio State linebacker,

Cooper, who I think went in the sixth round of the Denver Broncos. And I'm just flipping channels. I was watching the Yankee game. You know, it was like it was, you know, between inning. So I flipped to the NFL network. They're right next to each other. And it's like, I can't.

can't believe this guy ended up with the Denver Broncos. And you know, I've watched Ohio State, but I'm not locked in on their linebackers. So I'd text a buddy. Who does Ohio State? And my first reaction, because I'm just reacting to the television, I go, how did Cooper

fall to the Broncos? And then I realized, well, should I, and my next text message was, well, did he fall? And he goes, no, he didn't fall. We had him in the sixth round. And I was thinking about this. The problem for the draft is once they get picked, we don't know their value before the draft.

Beside, you know, the main names. But once you get to the third, fourth, fifth round, I heard Brett Veet say this in his post-draft press conference. He's like, you know, for the most part, the top 50 picks, not in the same order, but the majority of the league sees the top players in any draft, whether it's top 40 picks, whether it's top 60 picks on a given year, relatively the same, the same. Now, whether you would take Leatherwood at 17 or 40, but they're all the top players, right? Elijah Moore here, Quitty Pay here. Like, it's just different of opinion, but we all agree these are top flight NFL talents.

But once you get to the third, fourth, fifth round, and this Vech had a good point. He's like, you really find what different teams value. And I was thinking about this. Let's use the housing analogy. When you buy a house, you know the value. Because someone is going, there's a million dollar house. home and you look around the neighborhood, you go, every home in this neighborhood is going between $900 and $1.1 million. So if you're trying to buy a house and the house is a million dollars,

you go, you know, it's in the range. So whether you pay $950 grand for the house or whether you pay a little bit over a million dollars, you're in the same bullpark. But like, you have an idea of what the cost is. Where in the draft, we have no idea what the cost of most of these players are. But yet when a player who someone in the media views highly because the linebacker that the Browns got in the second round,

the Notre Dame linebacker. And listen, I talk to people that like the guy a lot. But a lot of the mock drafts had him as a top 20 player. I talked to multiple teams. We had him in the second round. Now he went toward the end of the second round, but

did they get some steal? If the entire league thought he was in the second round, if you buy a $900,000 home in a neighborhood where all the homes are going for $900,000 to a million, is that getting a steal if in five years that house is worth $2.2 million? Or did you just pay what the house was worth? Now, you get credit of knowing good neighborhood, people are moving here, it's got good schools, it has an opportunity, you know, to be worth a lot more. But to be a steel at the time, you would have to get a $900,000 house for $600,000. That's a steal.

When you draft a guy in the fifth round who the rest of the league views as a fourth or a fifth round player, that is not a steal. You drafted the guy where they wanted or where the league thought his value was. Like did the Niners get a steal in George Kittle? Yeah, because he's a good player. But when they drafted him the fifth round, his value in the league, people thought he was. was like a fourth-fifth rounder. That's where he was supposed to go.

Richard Sherman became a Hall of Fame player. But when he was coming out in the draft, his value was not first or second. Part of being a really high pick is you've got to check a lot of boxes. You've got to be a big-time player. You've got to have physical attributes. You've got to test well. You've got to be productive.

You know, the character dependent on the team can be hit or miss. But your value, when you're drafted last weekend, first, second, third round is determined by. the league. So if you go in the fifth, sixth, or seventh round, that mean the entire fucking league, depending on how many picks every team has had, have passed on you

certain teams six, seven, eight times. Other teams, three, four times. So when you go in the sixth round, now in five, ten years, you become a pro ball player? That does not change what your value was the moment you were drafted.

The reason Trevor Lawrence went one, He's an elite prospect. He's 6-6. He's got a big arm. He's accurate. He's athletic. He's high character.

He's won. He can make every throw. He's smart. He checks every box. The reason some of these quarterbacks, like Davis Mills or Kellynne Maen go the second, the third round, they have questions. If one of those guys becomes a star quarterback, did they truly get a steal or did they just draft a guy where they get credit is they developed them? They saw a big picture. But they paid the person.

proper price. They paid the proper price. To me, getting a steal would be to get the equivalent in the draft, like my housing analogy, $600,000 or home that you could immediately sell for a million dollars. But if you get a guy in the

fifth round, who then you immediately like, but the entire league viewed him as a fifth round player, you just paid what he was worth. Now, you saw the value big picture, right? But you paid the proper price. I say it all the time. I say it all the about the draft. It is a marketplace.

It is not necessarily a reflection of how good you're going to be. It's not at all, besides the high picks. It's a reflection of what you're worth in that given draft, which is 90% of the game

you're playing in the draft. What do I have to pay for this player? If you give me a million dollars right now and you say you have to use this on one house, you can't split this up and buy like three separate houses. I would go to a market and either try to get a, if I don't have like construction friends, they can do a huge remodel and flip it. If I just have to do it like

a normal person, I don't have any built in advantages. I'm just going to have to pay what every market bears. I would try to go to a market that I thought in the next 10 years that was going to boom. But my million dollars, if I didn't know anyone and just use a normal real estate agent, I'm not getting... Hey, everyone. It's Ryder Strong and Wilfredel for... from Podmeets World. And now the Podmeets Twirled podcast. We're two men who were completely clueless to reality TV,

who now have covered Dancing with the Stars, traitors, and we're gearing up for the season finale of Survivor. So yeah, now we're experts. I know we annoyed a lot of our listeners by our severe lack of survivor knowledge. That is the point of the show. I'm just going to remind you. I have watched some Survivor.

I obviously haven't watched enough. Did people not like it? Like what was... Yeah. Just because we... Yeah. We'll be recapping the big conclusion of the 50th season, from the final attempts at gameplay, to the desperate pleas of finalists to a bunch of ha, ooh, ha, ooh, ha, ooh, ha, ooh.

Again, we are experts. So make sure to tune into Pod Meets Twirled for all our Survivor 50 takes. Listen to PodMeets Twirled on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Kate Winkler Dawson, host of the Wicked Words podcast. Each week I sit down with the true crime writers behind some of the most comprehensive. compelling true crime stories and discuss their years spent investigating and why it still matters. He sees his father coming out of the woods with his hands over his face, and he knows something happened. His father just grabs him and says, she's gone, she's gone.

These are the cases that leave survivors, families, and the journalists who cover them changed forever. Working in national television, it'll push you to your limits, and you'll end up doing things. things you never thought you do. You know, you look back at it and you're like, I can't believe that really happened. Join me and step inside the investigation. New episodes drop every Monday on the exactly right network. Listen to Wicked Words on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's your responsibility to not just seek help, but to identify that you need help.

This is Mental Health Awareness Month. Tune in to the podcast, Jess Hill with Dr. Jay. and take real steps toward healing, growth, and becoming your best self. When you hear the word healing, what does that mean for you? What came right back to mine are the three Ps that I live by. I'll go through the process of healing so that patience, that perseverance, and that prayer equals healing to me. From understanding your mental health to doing the work, we break down practical tools, real conversations, and the mindset shifts you need to move forward and thrive.

You matter too. Your mental health is your responsibility, not your wife, not your partner, not your children, not the church, not the pastor, not the council. It's your responsibility. It's time to stop putting your healing on hold and start doing something about it. Listen to Just Here with Dr. Jay on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Your husband is not who you think he is. Your body is not what you saw it was. Your identity is formed by a secret history.

I'm Danny Shapiro, and these are just a few of the stunning stories I'll be exploring on the 14th season of family secrets. And just then, we felt the plain turn in the air, so much so that the bags that were under people's seats just kind of flew into the aisle. Each week, we dive head first into the complex power of secrecy, how it shapes our identities and relationships, and how it ultimately can reveal to us our truest selves. my daughter, she's pretending she doesn't know, but is trying to cook and feed me and keep me alive because I wasn't eating anything. And me pretending like everything was fine. He kind of shoved me out of the way and said, move. And he went out the front door and he jumped in a car and drove off. And that was the last time I saw him.

Listen to season 14 of Family Secrets on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Nanny like kickbacks or no any secret, you know, houses underwater or whatever. I'm just buying a house that any other human can buy. I would just buy it into a market, ideal, if it was just going to be a rental or an Airbnb, that over the next five, ten years I thought had some upside. But I would pay the price, which would be the proper price. So all these guys, when you read about all these stories like,

oh my, and I get this a lot like with the 49ers, everyone's like, Austin Walker, this undrafted free agent, he's going to be the number three wide receiver for the Niners. Well, maybe, more than likely, no fucking chance Because he's an undrafted free agent That means every team in the league Passed on him over and over and over again So all these fans think he's going to be a number three overall pick

He might end up being that But if everyone knew that was the case He's getting drafted in the fourth of the fifth round 100%. So when you see these people talking on television That's a steal, that's a steal because they viewed the guy. What matters and where you go in the draft is how the league views them.

That is the marketplace. That determines your value. And it's not based on, obviously if I knew the guy was going to be a Hall of Famer, he'd go in the top three picks. We don't have any of that information. We can only base the information on draft day on what I'm working with.

Your size, your speed, everything we've talked about, production. You know, I mean, it may turn out in 10 years, Penae Soles, the best left tackle we've ever seen. I'm not saying that's going to be the case, but let's use that hypothetical. And all the quarterbacks are average of best. You'd be like, God, you should have taken Penae Sule number one overall.

But at the time, like, his value was, you know, somewhere between five and eight. He went where were we supposed to go. Did the lions get a steal, or did they just, they just got him where we're supposed to go? It's no different than fifth, six rounds, same as the first round. You just get a guy what he's valued at. And that, to me, is where the good general managers understand, the bad one struggle with. If you love to be remembered as the person who gives the best birthday gifts, I'm here to tell you that 1800flowers.com is your ultimate birthday gifting destination.

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buckle for the toddler. And now the eldest daughter who looks to be about nine or has secured herself in the booster seat. Dad zips the bag closed and they're off. Ah, but looks like mom doesn't realize her coffee cup is still on the roof of the car and there it goes. Oh, that's a shame.

That mug was a fam favorite. Don't sweat the small stuff. Just nail the big stuff. Like making sure your kids are buckled correctly in the right seat for their age and size. Learn more at nhtsa.gov slash the right seat. Visit nhtsa.gov slash the right seat. Brought to you by NHTSA.

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It is the Instagram at John Middlecop. You come in those DMs and you get your questions answered here. Or if you have my phone number, like this guy named Hunter, you can shoot me a text. What was Big Red's process for getting Mahomes ready to play and how do you think the 49ers will handle Trey? Well, I don't know all the details on the year with Mahomes. I mean, I could find out. I do know that he became the backup from day one.

Like he was the backup at a training camp. And then week 17, Alex had his best year ever. So you just do the backup duties. And you get better. I'm sure they worked really hard individually, teaching him how to watch film. He's obviously just sitting next to the quarterback who's starting and having a great year.

Their team was having a great year. and week 16 at the time, they had already clinched the first round game. I think it was playing against Marriota and the Titans. I don't think they knew who they were going to play, but they knew they had already won the division. And Andy's told this story publicly before, is that Andy just took Mahomes. Like, we're going to approach this game, we're going all in.

And Nagy and maybe Brad Childeris, some of the offensive coordinator, they focused on the upcoming opponent. So basically just Andy had Mahomes for a week, week 16. And it was like blown away by how much he recalled, different stuff they did throughout the week. And then if you remember, they played Denver.

I don't even know if they won, but Mahomes played really well. And he made a couple throws in that game. It was like, holy moly. And then the following week, the Chiefs have a bad loss. I think Kelsey got knocked out in that game, if I remember correctly.

It's weird how males' minds work. I can't remember what I did two weeks ago, yet I can remember in a playoff game five years ago, Travis Kelsey getting knocked out on the wildcard weekend. Yeah, it is what it is. These minds work in mysterious ways. So I think they had known in practice, they had something special.

I think that week solidified it for them. Now, Patrick had been a multiple year starter, right? Trey, I think they ideally want to just ease them. I don't think they know. The Chiefs know what they have in Alex, or had. a guy that can take him to the playoffs. The Niners, Jimmy Garoppola goes down like every five games.

So I think you can go in with the mindset. Jimmy's going to start. Trey's going to be the backup. What if Jimmy gets hurt? What if Jimmy's not that good? I think the Chief's plan was very, very concrete. Like they were dead... Alex was starting the whole year.

I do not think that's the case with the Niners. I think they're going in with a fluid kind of mindset. And the game plan is for Jimmy, to be the starter, and I was at him, and he was going to get traded. Well, then New England took Mac Jones, and that's where he was going to go. So, and once you take Trey Lance, it does make some sense to bring Jimmy back. Obviously, with Mac Jones or Justin Fields, you've got to start that guy. But my guess, if I had to take an educated guess, Jimmy starts, ends up getting banged up,

Trey comes in and never comes back out. Now, that could happen in week two, that could happen in week 10. But unlike Jordan Love, like, Trey Lance is going to be the backup, day one. You've got to get them ready. Now he hasn't played in a year. He's got to get him up to speed. Hey, I doubt you have the time to read all your DMs. Come on, Calvin.

But if you would be willing, it would be awesome to meet you and ask you a few questions. I live in Northern California. I can come to where you live. My dream is a scout. Yeah, bro. I'll shoot you a DM after this.

I think the Vikings sometimes don't get credit for being a high-level organization since Spielman and Zimmer had arrived. They consistently draft well, moving back when necessary, replacing digs when that situation became untenable, and they find ways to keep studs like Hendricks, Hunter, or Cook, and they consistently lose offensive coordinators?

Are they underrated, and is it because Zimmer is a defensive coach and Cousins isn't a top-tier guy? I think when you never win a Super Bowl or even get to a Super Bowl, you don't get as much credit, but I'm with you. They make the playoffs basically every year. Last year, they were right in it when their defense was historically terrible. They had a stretch where their defensive backs were getting smote. Spielman's one of the best general managers in the league.

Period, point blank, end of story. Zimmerman, Grouchy, not Zimmerman, Zimmer, grouchy, old school, but he's good. I mean, he really is. Cousins had his best season of his career last year. I think 35 or 37 touchdowns. Jefferson was a stud, Thielen's a stud, Dalvin Cook's a stud. If their DBs are better, they're a 9-10-win team, especially if Rogers is not on the Packers.

But I think the main reason they don't get the credit is because the one time they got to the NFC championship, they ran into Foles and got smoked. What do you think the Eagles will do at quarterback next year given they are potential? They have a potential of three first-round picks. Consider this. Only if Jalen Hertz doesn't perform well,

although I don't think he's a long-term answer. I'd imagine they'll want to take a corner and a sweet pass rusher at least one of those picks. It's crazy. I mean, it just shows the society we live in. We're always, you know, what's next? What's next? Talking about three first round picks, which is a big deal. I mean, if Carson Wentz is solid, which I expect them to be,

they will have three first round picks. It is impossible to even guess until we know if Hertz is any good. If Hertz is terrible, they will draft a quarterback. Or they'll make a big trade for a quarterback. Who that will be? Every year guys become available. I can't, I don't know. If Hertz is really good, they'll just use, yeah, a defensive lineman,

probably an offensive lineman, and a corner. It'll be pretty simple. But if he's not, they'll just be in the quarterback business. And the best way to be in the quarterback business is to have a shitload of picks, because you can trade up to get one. One of these guys becomes disgruntled. You can trade and get them.

The Eagles are going to have options. I think one thing that's going to be big for this year is find out about Siriani. Can he coach? Is he an offensive innovator? What can he do with Jalen Hertz? How good is Jalen Hertz? What's the offense going to look like? I'm fascinated.

So are the Eagles. Listening to you and Haberman talk about the 49ers wide receiver three. Austin Watkins, this is the guy I'm talking about. We'll be there wide receiver three. I'd put money on it. Blows my mind, he went undrafted. Said Colts couldn't scoop him up.

Sad Colts couldn't scoop him up. Great short, intermediate route runner, best hands in the class with Devante Smith as well. Yeah, I'd have to do some digging on this guy. If he has the best hands in the class, he doesn't go undrafted. Like, you go undrafted for a reason. To not get picked in the 6th or 7th round? I know I've gotten a bunch of people DM in me and texting me.

This guy's going to be the number 3 wide receiver on the team. I've been around this business long enough now to know you cannot say that. If we knew this guy's the number 3 wide receiver, he's not making it past the fourth round. So I... And maybe he becomes that. but then the entire league, whiffed on. I agree the Bengals should have focused on building the offensive line for Burrow. Do you think that some of these franchises that expect to lose most of their games

feel more inclined to take swings on position players, like Chase, for the revenue side of things? We have established that this is a revenue-based business, and the thing that O-Lyman don't do well sell jerseys and put fans in the stands. How do you think this plays into some of those picks? Love the pod, good question. That's a great fucking question. Yeah, I mean, in a place like Cincinnati where, you know, they don't have big side businesses, their entire business is the team and they're struggling.

I couldn't even blame the team, right? Now, ultimately what sells the most is winning. I bet Mike Brown never made more money from jersey sales, from season tickets, those four or five years with Marvin Lewis and Andy Dalton when they were winning, competing to win divisions every year. That's how you move the needle in this league. Win games. So it makes sense, like, yeah, but I would, if it was pure on money, like if that was your number one goal,

you would always take a wide receiver, I'll be an offensive line. 100%. You're right. I've never heard that story in a draft room. I don't even think I've ever read it, but it's, you might be on to something. I think what I heard is, I mean, on a podcast or read somewhere, is that Mike Brown told Zach Taylor he can make the pick. take Joe Burrow or I mean take Jamar Chase or take Penae Sewell

I don't know why I'd let the coach make the pick but they did that might be true that might not be true they just went to wide receiver now Joe Burrow was really pushing for Jamar Chase right I mean he played with them they had a lot of success they won the national championship but like Joe let's just focus on getting you healthy we don't need you to be the assistant GM

I live in the Bay Area but I'm a huge Packer fan I've got family in Wisconsin I think Rogers just gets butt hurt a little too easily. Let's say we trade him into Denver after June 1. The Packers would request multiple first round picks and take either Judy or Sutton plus an edge rusher in return. His roster won't be as loaded everyone thinks. My thoughts are he dwindles away the rest of his career

going up against the AFC West quarterbacks and will regret the trade and miss the stability of Green Bay and playing in the weak-ass NFC North. Thoughts? like I said earlier, he's got it really good. He's got it really, really good. The New England Patriots sold their soul for Brady. Brady's best wide receiver over the last decade was Edelman,

a seventh round former quarterback, who's obviously an excellent player. That was the best wide receiver he had in his three Super Bowls in the 2010s. His best wide receiver, the first three Super Bowls, was Troy Brown. People were like, what about Ray? Andy Moss. They never won a Super Bowl or Randy Moss. Aaron Rogers, they never take a first round

wide receiver. Well, because they nail second and third round wide receivers. Randall Cobb, Jordy Nelson, Devante Adams, Aaron Jones. These guys are star players. Back to the Ari, their offensive lines big time. Does Aaron, are the Packers a perfect team?

Of course not. Does he have it better than 90% of the league? You bet your ass he does. He's got it great. Now, like I said, if he hates Goudicums, which it feels like he does, then, you know, I get it. I don't know why. I need a little more details than just

they drafted Jordan Love, but to act like Goudicims and the Packers or the Village idiots, it's just not true. Now, Aaron's their best player. I will never dispute that. But he's played with awesome players. Like, I remember when he got Greg Jennings, it's really good.

Donald Driver, bowler. He has played. played with, I remember 2013 opening weekend, Niners, Packers. Jordy Nelson made one of the best catches I've ever seen in person. Jordy Nelson was really freaking good. Devante Adams is arguably the best wide receiver in the NFL. Aaron Jones is a pro-bore. It's like, yeah, if they had Reggie White and Ray Lewis, their defense would be awesome.

You can't have unlimited good players at every position. There's a salary cap and Aaron takes up $35 million. All this talk about Tray Lance has got me thinking this. If you're North Dakota State, how much longer do you stay at the FCS level? Do you ever get tired of kicking the ass and decide to jump to FBS and hopes of becoming a bigger national brand with higher revenue? Or are you content with where you're at right now? Boise State, Appalachian State have made the jump successfully.

I would argue North Dakota State would be better than either of them interested to hear your thoughts. you could make the argument for Appalachian State, Boise has been a power for almost two decades. To think that North Dakota State could be Boise State, to me, is pretty bold. Boise has consistently won the whack in Mountain West since they made the move and produced a ton of NFL players. I get they've produced a couple of quarterbacks at North Dakota State, and they're awesome program.

But to think that they would be Boise State would be, I would much rather live at Boise than Fargo. It's easier for them to recruit. Now, I'm with you. The key is, what conference do you join? Does the Mountain West let you in? Because if the Mountain West, Fresno State, Nevada, San Diego State, that makes sense. If I'm them, I try to do that.

I'm with you. You'd have to get like an AD. I'm sure there are requirements. I know Boise, like when they were interested in Fresno State and trying to join the Pack 12, Pack 12 wouldn't let them in. Academics aren't good enough. Now, obviously the Mountain West with Fresno State, San Diego State,

Boise State, Reno, they don't care about academics. But I don't know. You need to have even numbers. It's probably a little more complicated than just we all think. Okay, enjoy the weekend. You guys can fire me DMs whenever

at John Middlecops of the Instagram. Thanks for listening. Tell your friends. We like good grassroots marketing. organic, keeping it organic. And yeah, I will talk to everyone later. Godspeed. Peace. Get right to the romance and find the way to wow this Valentine's

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