The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 3 and Out - SNAPS Host T-Bob Hebert on LSU Career, Brian Kelly Impact, Coach O Ending, Saban/LSU 'What Ifs'

Episode Date: July 10, 2023

John is joined by Snaps Podcast Host T-Bob Hebert to discuss growing up as the son of Bayou QB legend Bobby Hebert, his career as a 3-year o-line starter at LSU, why the Honey Badger was on another level than any other teammates, why he is so impressed with Brian Kelly’s instant turnaround of the program, if Lincoln Riley has USC ready to compete for a Natty this year, his transition into broadcasting, why it was so hard to criticize lifelong family friend Eddie O, if LSU under Nick Saban would have dominated like Bama, Follow John onTwitter, Instagram and YouTube for the latest. Check out Gametime - the fastest growing ticketing app in the US, and the official ticketing app of 3 & Out and GoLow -  for tickets to all of your favorite NFL, NBA, NHL, NCAA teams. Concert and comedy show tickets, too. Go to Gametime now to create an account, download the app and use code JOHN for $20 off your first purchase. Subscribe NOW and follow Middlekauff and The Volume on Twitter, Instagram and YouTube for the latest content. It's always FanDuel for the best wagering action! #volume #snaps #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The volume. What is going on, everybody? John Middlecock, three and out podcast.

Hopefully everyone had a fantastic Fourth of July. I'm going to call it a week. I'm sure many of you worked, but always a little weird when the holiday falls in the middle of the work week. Don't blame anyone for checking out before and definitely after Fourth of July festivities. But hopefully you enjoyed them. in the sun, buy a pool with a brusky in hand, a hot dog, a burger, family and friends, because it's what you do on Fourth of July.

So hopefully everyone had a good time. And back to talking about football. And here's what we will do today. We will have on T. Bob A Bear. He is the co-host with Aaron Murray of Snaps here on the volume. He's a unique personality. I stumbled upon him last year when Snaps, the volumes, SEC podcast. It's like, who is this guy?

He is a madman, and he's very entertaining. He's one of those guys who's just a natural fit for the medium. I mean, he's perfect. He hosts a big radio show with Jacob Hester in New Orleans. His dad, Bobby A Bear, a long time quarterback. He played football for a team that went to a national championship, lost Alabama, and another one that won it. I think he talks about on the podcast.

He was a redshirt freshman on that team. He is embedded in SEC land, knows all things. SEC loves football, loves LSU. We talk a little bit about his time when he was an undrafted free agent. He's just good. He's a natural talker. Some of us just got it, you know, and it just, he's definitely one of those. So we will dive into the interview, subscribe to their podcast.

If you like college football, snaps him and Aaron Murray. It really is, it's really entertaining. I'm not just saying that. I legitimately listen because big part is Teabob. He's he's he's a one of a kind and you'll hear him coming up. Other than that, the plan we will have a podcast coming out tomorrow. It'll be more football. I'm probably going to do a golf podcast midweek, even though it's kind of slowing down.

There's been a lot of moving parts in the golf world over the last couple weeks since the last time we talked. And other than that, we'll just keep rocking and rolling. We're probably three weeks away from the vets reporting to NFL training camps, probably a month away in college football for that really to get going. But let's buckle up. Football's right around the corner. And can't wait, baby. I love that smell of grass.

Pads popping. Tackling. Well, there's no tackling in August because no one actually does anything in training camp anymore. But that's a whole other conversation. But we have a lot of dialogue and takes and thoughts. on football, just moving forward because it's football season. Well, not quite yet, but right around the corner.

But before we dive into it, download the GameTime app, the official ticketing app of this podcast, Game Time. Go to your app store, download Game Time, promo code John, get you $20 off. You want to go to a football game this fall? You want to get outside, go to a baseball game?

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before i press record that you know when you think new orleans you think the mannings and you think Bobby and T. Bob, A, Bear, what is going on? Teabob, how are we doing? Ooh, John. If you can't tell, we're doing good today, okay? I'm fresh off of a vacay in which I watch the LSU Tigers battle in the college world series. They don't know exactly when this is going to air, but about 12 hours ago, I was in an Atlanta airport lounge of a bunch of LSU fans flying back to New Orleans watching Tommy tanks hit a walk off and send the Tigers to the college world series

about to take on the Florida Gators. So life is good. Now I got home about 2.30 a.m. rolled into my morning show about 6 a.m. We're on fire. We are not running on fumes. We're running on adrenaline and emotion. And we're having fun today.

And now we're going to talk to football. I mean, dude, life does not get better, John. I'm very happy to be here. Thank you. Okay. I wanted to introduce you a little bit for those that don't know. your dad Bobby long time NFL quarterback, but you yourself, four-year starter for the LSU Tigers? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So, okay. So yes. I, well, four-year letterman, three-year starter. My freshman year, I did like the special team or my redshirt freshman year. You kind of started to break in on special teams. And then I had the unique distinction of being like pretty good, but not that good, right?

So I had to find my way to the starting lineup every year. So sophomore year, I started at center. the next year I started at right guard and the year after that I started at left guard and I was also the two time Jeff Boss Unsung Hero Award which again that's like a team war right

but that's like the ultimate like again you were pretty good but not like great like you're not winning MVP's or anything but always doing I look I wasn't going to you weren't going to keep me off the field okay no one ever looked at you like you know Patrick Peterson or Justin Jefferson like you just knew if you were on the team

you were a lock star you had come in and like just go to battle. It's weird. You know, in high school I maybe had a little bit of that, dude. Like I had a little bit of profile. And that was early on in recruiting, Ryan. I think those metrics get better and better. And I certainly coming from a football name always helps, right?

So like in high school, it was like the number two center in the coach. Actually, my high school projections were like number two students in the country, but it was like three year starter, maybe make the NFL. And that's actually what ended up happening. Three year starter went to Canada. camp got cut final cuts and that was kind of it so i mean rivals good good on you but no but no yes i was not tired mat or i was not patrick peterson tired matthew doesn't apply there because i'll never forget watching tire mad this is this human being i've ever shared a locker room with and i'll never forget

dude 2010 he's a true freshman right and we're it's beginning of camp we're just like watching film from one of the first days and this little dude during red zone has this play where he lays fully somehow keeps his toes inbound and comes up with the pick and we're like who is this? Like who is this cat? He was like a two or three star at time. Like nobody knew who Tyre Matthew was. He's not that big. No, he's tiny dude. He's tiny. But when I tell you that man

exerts a gravitational pull on reality, it's unlike anything I've ever seen. Like his energy field you can just, he's, and you see this in all the alpha alphas guys like joe i always called a reality distortion field right you see it in tom brady where like all of a sudden you have crazy things happening that shouldn't happen but it's breaking brady's way you see the same thing guys like joe burrow pat mahomes these alpha alphas just

have a way of um of of having reality bend to their will and now they're always talented and skilled enough to step through that door once opportunity does produce itself but tyrant matthew was unlike anybody I ever shared a locker with. So no, I was not on those levels, that for sure. But two-time unsung Hero Award winner, don't forget it there, John. But you know, in 10 and 11,

I was looking this morning, you guys went 24 and three and listen, I got a lot of people listening right now that are, you know, 20s, 30s, you know, business majors, just went to school. They just have always thought, like, what's it like to be on the team at USC, at BAM, at

LSU, at Ohio State, and just be wrong. When you guys would just fucking throttle Tennessee or whoever, night game. That game ended, get your shower and you go to the party. I mean, do the thing look like the Playboy, man? I mean, what's it like? People want to know, bro.

So it's interesting, man, because I really ran the gamut at my time in LSU because my freshman year. You're married, man. You got kids now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, for sure. And actually, look, me and my wife have been together. He says, high school. We actually survived college together. Yeah. we have three kids. But let's say that, yes, many, many of my friends did very well for themselves strictly

in the relational department. You know, sometimes transactional relationships that didn't tend to last more than a night or two. But it, but I saw it all because my freshman year, we win the national championship. It's crazy 07 year or like the two losses, maybe the craziest year of college football ever. But in the next year, we went eight and five. The same way that you get all the glory when things are good, it's not a great place to be when things are bad. Like you're kind of going to class and like students are glaring at you, looking at you sideways.

You got the meat you're just spending every single day answering these harsh questions from the media. The town just seems generally pissed. But eight and five at LSU might as well just be like two and ten, right? I mean, that's terrible. Yeah. And it was like three and five in the SEC and you're coming off. And it was, it was easily the worst year in a long time, right? But then we started to climb back. And like you said, after I think we went like 9 and 4, then 11 to 2, then the 13 and 1 season.

And I will say this, like anything else in life, like the greater the expectations, yes, there are great consequences, but the greater rewards. So when you do do well, it's unlike any feeling you've ever experienced. You go around town and people just want to, you know, oh, they get. your meal. They treat you to it. It's just you start to feel like like some sort of gladiatorial hero that's walking around and being celebrated and especially my senior year where we were undefeated up until losing Alabama 21 and nothing in the national championship. It was just what position were you playing your senior year? I was playing a ralft guard senior year. And then

And then I would even fill it like, it was a weird thing where I would start there. But then if a guy went down, I'd move to one of the other guard positions. Or maybe it was right guard senior. I can't even remember at some points. But it's like I used to, during practice, my rotation was I would do two plays at left guard, two plays at center, two plays at right guard, take two plays off. And I just did that constantly throughout the year. Right.

So I was very much wherever you needed me in the interior. But yeah, that senior year was something. different man because we were undefeated, beat like nine ranked teams, beat everybody by double digits. We ended up beating the Sugar Bowl champions, the Orange Bowl champions, the Rose Bowl champions. Now, we actually beat the national champions for losing to them in the Natty. But I'll never forget the most, like the nights that you're talking about, the most like that that I ever felt was after the SEC championship. We beat Georgia.

So it's undefeated. you know, your punch you're taking the national championship mission accomplished. And we went back and I always thought this was very dushy. So you always got made fun of it if you do this. If you went out to the bars in your track suit, right? But I'll never forget that night, we all wore our track suits like straight from the bus to the bars. And we're sitting there standing on top of the bar. The fight songs playing.

I'm just pouring liquor into everybody's mouths that are open. but it was truly something out of like one of those college movie type of scenarios. So, no, it was, it was, it was, it was exactly why I think you go to somewhere that plays major college football. Like I said, is the pressure high? Absolutely. Does it come at the cost of other things? Absolutely. I don't know many that are able to give academics the full attention that it deserves when you're trying to play major college football.

Now, you have your freaks, right? Like wasn't Myron Role from FSU, like a Rhodes Scholar or something back there? Like you have your guys. I was not one of those guys. But the thing is, there is a lot of pressure. It is a full-time job. It is so much commitment. But even then, there were rewards to be had.

Now it's actually a legitimate career path. I would have been making more money in college now than I am as a professional adult had NIL been around back then. So, you had raising, you had Raisin Cain's tattooed your neck. Oh, bro. Look,

I'm, I'm, I, one of the radio guys here in Louisiana I think said the best, my guy, Sean Fox from, he does radio up in North Louisiana.

He said, look, if I could sell the oxygen in my studio to a sponsor, I would do that. So, uh, yeah,

if I, back in college, you would, you would have catch me pimping everything possible. Well, what's crazy is like, for as good as things get, you also mention eight and five.

Like, I feel Savage, who used to be a GM, ran the senior bull for a while. Now he works again with the Jets. He called Alabama Radio for a long time. And he lived in Fair Hope. He's a Southern guy. And he's like, when things are going well, and you start winning, you get like, the best case is Nick Sabin or Kirby.

But you've seen it with your coaches, right? Less. And I knew Jim McElwain from Fresno State. And obviously you got the Florida job. And Phil always said when this negativity comes over in the SEC, and you're not one of you guys, it's impossible to stop the tide, right? You saw it with Harsen last year,

and you can see it felt for a second last year like it was going to happen early on with your coach. But he's so damn good. By the end, everyone's like, now you guys are the favorites to win the West. Isn't it crazy? How did that happen? Is he just that good?

He's that good, man. He is somewhat. I mentioned the aura that people give off earlier I'll never forget. When he first got hired, they had this event in the stadium and it was for ex-players, big boosters,

just a meet and greet sort of deal, right? And what I was just really watching, I didn't care. No, I wanted to, you know, you got to go glad hand in front of the new president.

You want to try to get a positive little intro and, you know, hey, what's up? We look, blah, blah, whatever. Keep those VIP passes flown,

you know? Yeah, but, you know, what I really wanted to see, how's he going to work this thing? And the act, that he showed, the dude just gives off the feeling of a Fortune 500 CEO, right?

Like, he had someone subtly feeding him information on who he was talking to. He had a wonderful little anecdote or a little joke to be made with every part. Like, he just was incredibly ingratiating to a room full of very powerful people and just former players who were just there because they were players and they're not anything really important program now. But just watching him work that room, I was like, okay, this is, this is a little bit different and then you start to dive into his process and like most of the greats he's incredibly process oriented and here you have someone who has been building up this this process and his

skill set for an entire lifetime he has one missing crown jewel and he basically by leaving an 11 and two Notre Dame team that was knocking on the edge of the playoff and going to an lSU team that was sub 500 with 39 scholarship players during the text ball he basically told you he felt like he had reached the glass ceiling at Notre Dame. And then all the acumen that he had built up, he needed a better engine through which to apply it. That became LSU. The year one results are fantastic.

We'll see what ends up happening in year two. It certainly looks very good on paper. I'll say this. It is without a doubt, and I love Coach O, that's my boy. I played for Coach Miles. This is by far the best coach at LSU has had since Nick Sabin. Yeah, I agree. And what's interesting here is, man, it's getting paid $100 million.

Right. That's a lot of money. But college football is fascinating. I love the parallels between college football and like medieval warfare. And that's not even just because I'm like a big like fantasy nerd, which I am. I love all that kind of stuff. Right. But when you think about it, like the college football game day itself feels like a medieval tournament, right?

There's exotic sites and smells. And you have these foreigners wearing these different. colors and they sing their own weird songs and people are selling their wares and all this sort of stuff. And then you have the tilt at the end of the day and it's wonderful. And then when you zoom out, though, a successful college football program starts to look like successful military conquest. Go look at pictures of Tuscaloosa pre-Nick Saban 2000. And I mean like the city. Go look at the economy. Like the potential benefits that you reap can be massive. He didn't just bring winning football there.

All of a sudden, Alabama, the academics are higher than ever. It's harder than ever get into because there's so much out-of-state tuition because they're constantly playing for Natis. They're constantly being advertised to this larger audience. You have investment in the city. You have businesses want to be there. You have the same way that the great Roman generals would come back and build temples and statues.

You have new buildings going up all around campus all throughout the city. And you're seeing it now in Georgia as well. And what's scary about Georgia is they even have a higher potential than Alabama. because they're kind of like LSU where I'm not counting Georgia Tech. They have no major in-state rival. They are just as good. Louisiana, we always brag about our professional athletes from a per capita standpoint.

Georgia's just as good, only they're multiple times more populous. So on a per capita level, they're equal with you. And they have a ton more kits to pull from. And they have a way better economy and money from which to pull. And they also have no other flagship committee with them. Like, as good as Alabama has been.

then Kirby Smart looks as if he is poised to take that and go to an even higher level than we've seen even in this Nick Saban era potentially. I hear what you're saying about the individual towns and on a micro level. I think you're right. I think even on a macro level, your entire conference, I saw it a couple years ago. I was home. I got family in the Sacramento area and I was playing golf. And my brother is a farmer and he was playing with his other big farmer and his kids, again, Born and Ray, Sacramento area.

One kid goes to Old Miss, the other goes to Tennessee. And then I got family in Fresno, California, and I'm texting with free people. And these are not athletes. These are just kids going to be an econ major, business major, whatever. I know family friends in the Central Valley that are sending their kids to the SEC. I think the SEC, and this started with Sabin and just became so popular, the amount of money that came in with football has cycled down. You guys are kicking ass at every sport now.

You're on TV the most, and I think you're driving people to these schools that just would have gone back in my day. If you were from Sacramento, you might have gone to San Diego State, right, or Arizona State. Now you're like, shit, I'll just go to Tennessee. That looks cool. And the dad's like, yeah, go there. It looks awesome. I'll come visit. And it's become a destination.

I'll go to Knoxville. Where I bet when you were at LSU and playing, right, in most of the schools, most people were from the south that went to the school. I think that's probably changing dramatically and will continue to. no and there and there's numbers to back that up i mean this article that i always think about was i think even from like 2017 16 maybe but the new york times in a deep dive in alabama and just looked at um things like out of state tuition and it had the admissions process i remember was crazy just absolutely and like you said and that trickles down um to other facets of the cc and and now where it gets a bit interesting. And this is where

the Big Ten seems like the best challengers to keep up with this. But now too, in the age of NIL, emotional buy-in equals economic buy-in. Right. And so obviously I'm riding a college baseball high right here. Everybody in Baton Rouge loves college baseball, the teams how they're made the Natty or whatever.

The SEC's great in baseball. It's only going to get better and better though, because that's already a sport where you don't get full scholarships. You get 11.8, but guess what? Now everybody can't. because they can pay you like every if you if your fans care enough if they're if they're passionate enough you can and i don't care what you want to try to reform we've talked about this on snaps a lot john and and and and and so and and so i've seen by the t bobs podcast with aaron murray

snaps go subscribe right now it's fantastic yes absolutely and so i'm not a lawyer right and so maybe there are some angles that i'm missing here but everybody wants to reform nil reform n i'll i don't see how it's possible. And they say, and he's like, oh, we'll do a salary cap, right? Okay, that, that sounds good on the surface, but a salary cap comes from the school. Pamah Holmes may have a contract under a salary cap, but that doesn't stop, I don't even know, like state farm from paying him hundreds of millions of dollars. Perts, whoever, yeah. Yeah, exactly. So it's like, okay, you can maybe cap what the school or the conference could provide, but how do you ever stop? your local business owner who owns the big roofing company and wants the five-star quarterback from saying, no, I'll pay him a million dollars a year. And all I need to do is two Instagram posts. I'm happy.

I mean, that's the exposure that I want. So it's like, it is a definite to me toothpaste out of the tube situation when it comes to hell. I don't think that there's any great road back. I don't see how you regulate it. When you look at Justice Kavanaugh's letter about Annie, about the NC, basically being immune to antitrust laws for so many years, but they never should have been.

And so I guess I'm saying this all because we're talking about the SEC, right? And how you mentioned that you've already had this economic trickle-down effect, this buy-in that's led to a concentration of power in college sports. I don't see that momentum stopping. No. I only see that momentum hyper-accelerating. But there are going to be other winners as well, right? USC is one.

because while USC may not have the ratio of buy-in from the population, they have way more money. But the Teabob, they went to the SEC light in the Big Ten. So they gravitated. They would have not been left behind, but they would have been at a disadvantage. The Pack 12 had major uphill battles that they could never overcome. The Big Ten and the SEC have laughed them, right?

So I give them credit. They fucking bounce. And now they are, if Lincoln does it right and he's landing some of these transfers from the SEC, the reason Pete won big defense, defense, defense, we know Lincoln coach offense, then they

I'm with you, they will be a foe like Ohio State. Dude, right? Lincoln Riley's a fucking beast. Like, this is one of the most annoying things that I feel like I have to deal with talking college football and... Well, you cross Venables and I love it because that last year wasn't embarrassment. Look,

that's inexcusable for Oklahoma to go 6 and 7 with that roster going against other big 12 teams. Like it now, now he's done a great job recruiting, whatever. I mean, but like I'm not going to give him

the benefit of the doubt, right? He's going to have to make me look like an asshole before I give him credit. But yeah, and exactly right. If that doesn't speak to Lincoln Ryaz Acumen, look at what happened the year after he left to Oklahoma.

But to me, there's this bit of, um, southern, um, overconfidence, pride, whatever you want to call it,

where they just feel like USC's a finished prana. They're like, Okay, whatever. It's a cute year, but they still can't play defense. Guys, it was your fucking one. Okay? And when you're looking at Lincoln Riley, he is not Clay Helton. He is not Lane Kiffin at like 27 years old or however he was.

Lincoln Riley is multiple orders of magnitude better than these guys. Lincoln, if you had a scale where it's like Clay Helton here, Pete Carroll here, Lincoln Riley is so much closer to the Pete Carroll end of the spectrum than he is the Clay Hill. one, it's not even close. I mean, he's won multiple big 12 championships. He's now produced three Heisman trophy winning quarterback. So nobody can handle the most important position in football like Lincoln Riley can. Like to act like he's never going to figure it out defensively, I think is absurd, especially now that he's at USC. He has the resource and Hollywood loves a star, right? And Lincoln Riley is that guy. You see them getting guys like Bear Alexander to transfer

over from Georgia. They brought in a ton of all conference defenders. Like, I'm not saying that even's going to be great this year. And it's still a long climb. But I just really want to fight against this narrative or this notion that like, just because USC sucked defensively last year, they've always sucked her because Lincoln Riley's never been the best defensively. He's always going to. I don't believe that at all. I am, I think the long-term potential of USC is top five in the country. I think it's with any of the other major powers you traditionally think of. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games.

Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your

podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. I've gotten to this argument, and I don't, I've never lived there like you have. And I think you're a perfect guy to ask because, you know,

you've lived in one of these towns, your dad played in the other town in Atlanta. And you know Atlanta, just the SEC championship game is so big. Is it, it would probably only be the two teams, the Falcons and the Saints. If LSU, Georgia,

or just you could even do the Florida teams too. Is there any NFL team, can they be bigger than an SEC football? Like, what is more important? SEC football team, like LSU and the Saints. Georgia,

the Falcons, right? Obviously Florida teams, like the bucks and I'm sorry. Maybe the dolphins, if they're good, but I don't know, they haven't been good in so long.

No, for the vast majority of the SEC footprint. What's bigger in New Orleans? Is it, or just Louisiana as a whole? LSU are the same. In New Orleans, in New Orleans is probably going to be the Saints.

The Saints have one of the, they kind of remind me of kind of, your northeast fan bases a little bit where, you know, it is the end-all be-all for a lot of people. For Louisiana as a whole, I'm probably going to say LSU. I think of the southeast as a whole, because a lot of plays don't have NFL teams. It is all about the college program. And then what you'll see is like, especially with the team like the Saints, that one of the funny quirks there is, that is a time when fan bases that hate each other on Saturday will kind of unite on Sunday, right?

Because they're kind of the Bay Area team. So Alabama Crips and Tide fans are also New Orleans Saints fans. Yeah, gotcha. But if you ask a lot of these guys, okay, you can get another St. Super Bowl or you can get another college national championship, I mean, I feel like if you were to ask that to the Southeast, you know, do you want your favorite NFL team? We want a championship or college football team?

I feel like the majority of the Southeast would answer college football. And again, we live in an era now where emotional investment becomes economic investment. And like everything else in life, if you have money, it's easier to do things. And it's easier to try to accomplish goals. And so, yeah, it's, and that's actually something that college football needs to fight against. Like the Big Ten needs to, they're doing it. Kevin Warren got a great contract. They have all the buy in there as well.

But like, it's in danger of becoming a bit too regionalized, in my opinion. And so you need the Big Ten to get frisky. You need USC to have success in that conference. It's like you still need representation from these other portions of the country. Though I don't think we're ever going to get it from the Northeast. I think the game of the year just because, you know, anyone, I'd say, you know, I'm a couple years older than you, but we've seen you win. We've seen Bama win now forever.

We've seen Auburn win, Georgia win. But Tennessee's kind of been down for a while. And last year that night win and then all the viral videos, it was like, this is the shit. Like that was, I don't care who you root for or whatever. that to me was probably non like the national championship or whatever which was a dud but even the final four like that was probably the night

of the year for college football that was sweet yeah absolutely absolutely well and you guys beat bam was pretty sweet too I guess but on a walkoff there is something yeah exactly but but we've seen the same thing though it was the same thing though walk off and walk off right but at the end of the day like

one thing that the NFL doesn't have that college football does is it's a more wealthy crowd, a bit of a more corporate crowd. You got to make sure that your fans are a little more comfortable. So you end up with like 70,000 seat stadiums around there. There's a difference when you got 100K in there. And they all got the emotional buy-in of, oh, I chose to go to school here. I gave my tuition dollars here. Maybe I grew up and my parents had me die hard from beginning. Like there's just a

You could, I mean, there were tears. There were, like, these volunteers fans were literally spilling tears. It was what you felt in that Tennessee Alabama game was over a decade of anguish finally broken. And I've seen it. That's what you felt at LSU in 2019 when they beat Alabama after struggling for like eight years in a row. Like, I'll never forget it. It wasn't just winning a football game. It was this cultural communal experience.

I mean, it was in Alabama that year 2019. team. I'm watching with my neighbors. Everybody's got the kids running around. Everybody boiled crawfish. We're taking jello shots. Every turnover, every touchdown. Just delicious foods everywhere. And as the game ends, it's not just our pocket in the neighborhood celebrating. You could hear just honking and yelling and fireworks all throughout the city. And you do get that. I'm not saying that you don't get that in professional sports, but I mean, you definitely get it in the SEC and you saw it in Tennessee last year.

You saw it in LSU and it's just, you feel, man, playing in the SEC too when you're in a 100,000 seat stadium, it's just the closest thing that I can imagine what it felt like to be a gladiator back in the day. And that's how I used to approach it. Like to me when I would get my mind right before the game, I'd just be like pumping lead Zeppelin in my ears

and putting on the pads is like putting on a suit of armor and the final piece was painting the face and then it was just time to go fucking fight and when you scored like next to the student section or something and you heard that crowd and you basically hold up your arms and you feel like Russell Crow like are you not entertained it's just it's it's it's it's a feeling that I have not been able to replicate in any portion of my um of my life and I think it's the best feeling that I think it's the best right? Because I have three kids. I love them. I cry at the drop of the hat with anything that they do because I'm just, you know,

I'm softy, but it's just a different feeling and adrenaline rush that I can't, I'll forever be chasing. Well, I think you're a good example. I have a love-hate relationship, like social media slash the internet. Obviously, it's good for our business and, you know, much needed. But you're also able to find, like, you're in Louisiana. I'm on the West Coast. I would never, besides of knowing, you know, working in football, knowing your name, like, I couldn't just watch or listen to your shows 20 years ago, right? If this was 1997.

But I'm able to like, obviously we were both on the volume. So I snapsed, but I could listen to your radio show if I was a big LSU fan in, in Sacramento or Seattle or wherever. You know, you are just, you're fucking born for this. But I think historically, a lot of people like to get a job and to be big, you know, in sports as a former player, it's like, you got to have a big name. You got to have a big name. And to me, that's always been the, like, you're either entertaining or not, right?

And, you know, is this something that you, when you were a player, like, I'm going to be a personality or is this something that just organically happened? Because clearly you're pretty natural at it. Oh, John, dude, you're making me blush, dude. Thank you. No, look, it's a bit of a... Call space, space. It's a bit of a mixed bag here where when I was playing, the player media relationship is

very interesting, right? Because it is inherently antagonistic a lot of times. Even if both parties kind of like each other, at the end of the day, it's always got a little bit of an us versus them feeling. Now, the greats, they can work in and they can kind of manage these relationships,

especially I'm always really impressed, like the beat writers who can do that, who can keep it honest for the fans, but also like still not have the players like, fuck you, I saw what you wrote about me, blah, blah, blah. So when I first got done... Because at LSU, you guys are covered like an NFL team. I mean, how many media members are showing up and stuff?

I mean, dude, it's, it's, it's, you know, Tuesday was the day for local media where you would just do like 30 minutes of TV, 30 minutes of paper. Then you do national things throughout the year. Yeah, like it's multiple beat, right? You know, yes, it is, it is every single day. Right. And so when I first got out of it, I was like, I don't want to do this. I don't do this. Even though my old man was doing radio at the time.

And this is where I kind of come back to, I don't. no, not I don't know. I did not take school as seriously as I should have in college. And it was kind of in the back burner. So I was like, I just did general studies or whatever. So I get done with football. I get cut. I'm kind of looking around. I'm like, fuck, man. I don't know shit about shit. Like, I don't know. Like, what am I going to go back to school? I don't really want to do that. Like, I got to find some way to make money. And I'd always had friends. And, you know, in college, I'd become somebody that they could rely on and be like, you know, send t boob out there he won't say anything fucked up he'll give him something good like whatever like

he's not going to get bulls and more material so i got to go to like cc media days so so i knew i kind of enjoyed it and everything and then so i was engaged i needed to get a job and um i just hit up one of the local radio stations here and they were like okay look we we'll have you do sales and then you can do like you know monday and thursday nights uh and i was shit at sales. I don't have that grind bone. I just don't. I'm not good at it. I would lie and be like, oh, yeah, you know, I'm out here at busy the business and I'd just be like smoking weed and playing basketball. It just, it was just, it was, I was just all flat. But I loved the radio portion. So later, I was like, okay, I'm going to try to go in all in on this thing. And this is where

I just got to be honest. I'm a huge beneficiary of nepotism. You mentioned my father, former NFL great. Love that man. He's a legend in New Orleans radio after he retired. He ended up doing all the Saints pregame, post game and everything. And when I got done, I started

looking around for jobs. And the station that he was working at, they were opening up like kind of a smaller sister station and they wanted to do a morning sports talk show. And thus, at 23 years old, I was gifted an opportunity that I absolutely did not deserve.

And I don't take it. obviously you have the last name, but you were a several-year starter on a team that was in the national championship at LSU. It's not like you played at McNeese State or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, no, I just mean that I just mean in terms of like, you know the players, you have the connections to the coaches. I mean, you got an in with something pretty important. I've seen the path, though. I've seen the path that some obviously have had to take.

And I kind of, and I got jumped to the front of the line in a lot of ways. And I've always tried to keep that in front of my mind, not as a negative. thing and not to try to debase myself, but more to kind of remind myself to be thankful for that opportunity and to try to continue to make the most of that opportunity. And I want to be honest with others because sometimes people were like, man, how'd you get in? How'd you do it? And it's like, I had an easier path the most. And I'm trying to make the most of it. And like, dude, getting here on the volume and getting do snaps there. And there's been one of the biggest breaks my professional career and I absolutely love it.

It's like the most fun thing that I do every single day. But no, but to be honest, yeah. So that was kind of how I got my foot in the door. And then through that, I started doing the night show on the big station in New Orleans at WBL, 8 to Midnight, which that's a great fucking way to learn to do radio, dude. Eight to midnight. I mean, you got some, you probably got some collars in New Orleans. I mean, just dealing with some insane hammered people.

and it was also part political. So I'm a young, mid-20s fired off abortion takes or? Well, like, I would say that my politics definitely fall on the more left side of the issues,

which did, you know, which did not always play well with the audience. So I'm out here eight to midnight, just fucking cutting my teeth, grind and argue with drunk callers about sports and about politics. And so it was just an invaluable experience. But that night shift is it's just a weird existence.

And then I was really, really lucky where Coach O got the job at LSU. And one of the morning show hosts randomly went with him to be as like chief of staff essentially. So the job opened up here. I met that guy at the Volgaon party a couple years ago. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

He's a great guy. So funnily enough, Panamski is actually who I went to right when I got out of college. to get at that sales job at 104.5. So it's funny how the world works. And then so that job opens up. And I jumped at it, man. I knew I wanted a family and the morning schedule is awesome. It's better than night.

And so here we are now. I've been doing this morning show for like six years. Now we're doing the volume in the afternoon. And it's just a lot of fun. And I think you hit on something important real quick, John. I'm sorry. I know I'm getting wordy, but fucking. Not a podcast, but, but you mentioned being entertaining, okay? And I want to be painfully clear about this.

I am not a journalist. Didn't I go to journalism school? And I think a lot of people are always like, how's that guy on TV? Not talking about me, but like, you know, they see like a Kendrick Perkins like, how the fuck is he on TV? What do you? I can't believe he said this. He was so wrong.

You're like, yeah, but you got to understand. He's fucking funny. And he's entertaining. he's good to listen to. Like, this job is not necessarily about being right. Like, you have to have vacuum. I'm not saying you can just be some sort of complete slappy. Like, like your takes have to have belief or truth in them.

But ultimately, I view myself as an entertainer. And if you're listening to my morning show or you're listening to Snap, I want you to have fun. Because the world can be very grating a lot of times, right? And we all need an escape. And so I just want you to have some fun, have some fun, to have some laughs and everybody to just go home and being like, you know what, I was happy. I'd just listen to that. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, CliverTaylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need. to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Well, I think, and I've been listening to you guys since you started. And what I noticed about you is that I think a lot of people push back against this modern, like people just making uptakes to like say a take. And if you are, I can't tell. Like there's an authenticity behind it. But, you know,

a lot of, especially like former player, won't talk some shit. And I don't mean just talk shit to talk shit. I mean, if you don't think Brent Venables is worth of salt, say he sucks. Like, I think Sark's the most overrated coach I've ever seen. Doesn't mean he's a bad guy or whatever. But he stinks. He's never

won 10 games. Yeah. He's never won't take games. And I listen, I have no problem holding back on coach. Like, Brandon Staley with the Charters, like, get the fuck out of here. You know, but like, whatever I hear you talking, like you will blast some people. But it's just like, I truly believe you believe it when you're saying it.

You're not just saying it to say it. And that's, no, that's what I enjoy about you. That is true. No, that is true. Because you can, you can, you can, you can sniff out a rat. And you can try to be hot take guy. But again, there has to be some modicum of belief. Now, I will say this.

There are situations where I've almost started out satirically believing a thing. But then I start to like, I'm like, wait a second, actually. Like, like with Anthony Richardson. right all of a sudden you know at first I'm kind of fuck with Aaron because he's like oh you should be drafted I'm like I don't know dude you know he's physical but then I'm like but I'm wait wait wait hold on a second now how many good quarterbacks with great stats have been drafted that fucking suck 90% might as well draft the fucking bad one that's more physically better like if the good ones are going to suck like it might as well take a shot on the guy who can throw it 80 yards

to a backflip and is way more physically talented and so sometimes even it's just interesting to me how when you start to break things down and our job really to me is just thinking critically about something it's taking an information filtering it through your brain and trying to come out with it how do I feel about this maybe what are the interesting angles in this and I actually like legitimately believe in Anthony Richardson being drafted fourth overall and I'm kind of a believer too now I'm like Shane Steichen Jalen Hertz I'm like this is going to work Stuyken, I mean, he's really exactly, Stigke about Scygant.

Like, who has a more proven recent resume with making young quarterbacks great? Right. And even Justin Herbert, people were not high on Herbert. Or actually, people were high. I was a hater on Herbert coming out. Like, I was one of those guys that crew. Look at what Stuyken did. And it's funny, I was talking to someone who hung out with Chene out that long ago.

And he was saying that, look, Stiking gets it. psych was like, let's be painfully clear. I know that my job relies on making Anthony Richardson good. So it's not like anybody's avoiding the elephant in the room. Like he knows that he has to make this work. And shit, man, I don't know how quick it will work, but I think it has a good of chances. And he is working out. And here's my other deal on that.

It's like, stop telling him not to play football. What's this idea of like, well, I think he needs a year to get ready. No, guys, play fucking football. Okay, that's the way he's going to get ready. Let him take his lumps. Let him get out there make mistakes. Is it going to suck? Is it going to hurt in year one?

Yes, but we've seen it work out in the past. I mean, Peyton's obviously the most extreme example of that where he threw about a thousand picks, his first like year and a half, maybe two years. And then he became Peyton Manning. But no, I hate this idea. Well, no, no, you're going to red shirt, Anthony Richardson. No, no. Let's just play him.

Let's just play him. Yeah, exactly. Too much resources. play him, be a good coach, customize your plans to what to highlight his strengths and mask his weaknesses. You can't be so married to whatever system you have to run that you don't customize.

And these NFL coaches don't do that. Like they know that nowadays, obviously. But yeah, man, I'm fascinated to where it goes. But that was a take that I wasn't always sure on. And then the more I talked it out and thought about it. I'm like, wait a second, this is so crazy it actually makes sense. But it's not even crazy. The do went for overall.

So it's like, what are we even argument? Like the market showed. Does your radio station, do you guys have LSU football? Yes. Yes. We are the flagship. Well, I was, I worked in radio for about four years and we had the Raiders. And I did the post game and they were terrible.

And Mark Davis, the Raiders got very mad at me. And ultimately I got fired because they hated just my takes. And I was told don't hold back. And then a boss changed. And I was just, is that hard for you? like is that an issue because former player you're close with the coaches but like if they lose the fans

the same the Raider fans leaving they just saw the team get blasted it's not like they don't want rainbows you know so is that something do you have to be honest or you just let it lose have you ever been told to calm down I mean I've I've gotten I've gotten

I've gotten slept in the ham for I've gotten into it before you think you got more leash because of who like If it was me, not a former player or whatever, do you feel a little more secure given that your status with the program? That could potentially be true. I, I feel, look, so here, so like probably the toughest needle that I've had to thread was Coach O is my old man's old college roommate. They grew up together.

They're, you know, everybody down the bayous cousins, but they played high school football together. You've known your entire life. Hey, yes, they won a state together in high school. They roomed together in college at NACAdish in Northwestern State. So, yeah, this was like a family friend being hired as a head coach. And it was fucking awesome at first. You know, it was fucking great. And I could objectively, you know, celebrate everything.

But then. Then 19 happens. You're like, this doesn't get me better. I mean, it was like, I'm a bit of my look. Yeah, it's like, but, but then you had 2021, we're basically to go 500, two years in a row. and it was tough. And I'd be lying if I said that me and O himself didn't have some tough conversations where, because, you know, he never did this for anybody.

He would come on our show weekly. And I had to ask him very tough questions. Like, did you think like you lost the locker room when you went on Fox? Like, you know, some, so like, and even he, you know, we had some kind of like, what the fuck moments. And I said to be like, look, man, I, you know, I have to ask. I hate that I do. I have to ask this stuff. It just is what it is.

And I find that if you, if you're really trying, like if, if you're really trying to just keep your job, which I got three kids. So that is an actual concern. You, you just keep it fact based, right?

Like if I'm not out here saying like, oh, he's a shitty fucking person. They're like, like, the fact is Kentucky just kicked your fucking teeth in. You can't get your fucking teeth in. You can't get your.

your teeth kicked in by Kentucky if you're LSU football. Like at a certain point, the facts take over for themselves, and it's like, I can tell that story. Okay, I can tell that story because it's, it's, everyone saw it. Like, what are you going to, what are you going to come back? And that's the thing about football is coaches, players, you want to be pissed at the media?

Football is one of those rare instances in life in which we have an actual meritocracy. You control how people will talk about you. If you win, you are beloved. If you lose, you get fucked. It is that simple. It is black and white. And so it's like, you can be mad at me for saying you're doing bad, but like it's still, it's, it's on you at the end of the day. If you're winning, I'm not going to shit on you. I cry like, because I can't because I'm going to talk about the facts, which again, is that you're doing really well. So like, whenever I say, see coaches getting frustrated with the media and everything. I'm like, you're wasting your energy.

I agree. What are you doing? Like, how about you just shut the fuck up and win and win the game? And look, and I get it, it's natural. Again, like I said, I went through it. I think it's a bit of antagonistic relationship. And I too have been pissed at the media. But I always was cognizant of the fact that, okay, you know what the way to get

them on your side is, is to just win. I mean, I remember in 2019, me and like some of the, I used to do a podcast with a guy, Brody Miller from the. athletic, whom I love dearly, but he's like a real-ass journalist. And he was really struggling with like, I can't find anything bad to talk about here. Not that you go search for that stuff, but he's like, I feel like I'm a Homer writing for a fan site just because everything is so good right now. But again, you have to just follow like wherever the facts go.

And that's what you build it upon. So there is a needle of thread. Absolutely. I'm not going to lie and see there isn't. but I have found that the only times I've gotten into trouble is maybe when I've

gone a bit too far you know, maybe you know with stuff that's not happening on the field. Like one day I did a whole like bit. They like wouldn't let media into practice and so I started I made like some like Russian propaganda bit where they're like, do not worry.

Team is great. Everything is good. Do not. Do not. Do not. Do not. Yes. Just trust us. And it just, so some stuff that maybe got in hand. But the coach O thing, right, the big story was the women off the field. And then I met him at the volume party.

I think he's actually married to this woman now. But it was like, damn. And she was just way younger, dying piece. So I was like, is all that stuff true? And I'm sure that was a major talking point. And it's like, okay, the athletic department, if they're going to get mad, they're leaking the stories.

Yes. So here's the deal on that. And that was pretty delicate to talk around as well. But for those that don't know listening to this that aren't, Coach Joe wasn't like working it. Was he like not working as hard? After he won the national championship, he got a divorce.

Women come into practice. Unnamed players saying it was crazy, correct? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, players were like, what's going on here? No, no. There was a change.

There was like a definite change. When I find funny, though, people are like, how could this happen? And I'm like, okay, guys, let's, you know,

let's just take a step. back. Let's look at the facts here. This is a man who was a delinement his entire life, right, during his younger years, right? Not exactly the sexiest of positions. When he started his coaching career, he was sleeping on a cot in the Arkansas weight room as like a GA. Now he has a new contract that pays $9 million a year. He put together maybe the greatest college football team of all time, when 15 and 0, won a national championship,

completed the ultimate turnaround story after leaving Ole Miss and disgrace. Like you said, he's suddenly single. He has the millions of dollars. He has a celebrity and everybody wants to sleep with him. Guys, a lot of people would have fallen into the trap. What are we talking about?

Like, it's literally it reminds the old South Park episode where Tiger Woods is like, you have all these people standing the the podiums in there talking about like, I can't believe Tiger would want to have sex with young women that are attracted and they're kind of like side eyeing their wife the entire time. Like there was a lot of posturing like,

I can't believe that he would do this when like, well, a lot of you would. And that's what makes guys like Sabin and others so obsessively great is that when you achieve that ultimate success, I think we're all under the disillusion that your problems go away. but Sabin's been very clear about this. Success does not mean an elimination of problems.

It just gives you a whole new set of problems. And one that is even arguably, arguably even harder and more complex to deal with because it's not just, oh, we need to go out and win the games. Now of a sudden you have to keep players motivated because you've already won the national championship, right? You have to make sure that success is not an end to your problems. It's just a transformation in the new ones. and I don't think that oh handled that transition well

but it doesn't matter because like I don't think a lot of us would and he got paid 17 mil and my guys live in life now he's getting to be a dad he's great I talked to him on the phone the other day he is the happiest I've ever heard him huge coach Joe's about to be a dad again

no no no no no he has he has two older kids but he like but he talked about it man I thought his new wife was pregnant like damn coach no no no no no he's got like Like he's got like three kids. But what he's saying is like, you know, he's like, it's just his, you know, and he was even talking very kindly about his ex-wife saying like, dude, she raised the kids. I was never there. The demands of coaching or such is that I was just constantly busy.

I was all on the road. You know about his relentless recruiting. We know about his relentless work ethic. And so now for the first time in his life, he's getting to go in. I think one of his sons is. G-A and at Miami. I know a couple others are floating around in football as well, and he got to go to their games.

He's getting to go, like, hang out with them, visit them in just ways they've never had previously. And it's funny, I remember when it all went down the fire and everything, my old man called him, and he was like, oh, dude, if you were to, if you would have told us when we were in the dorm room in Northwestern State and Nackettish, Louisiana, that you were going to go 15 and 0 when National Championship, greatest team ever and then get paid $17 million not to work. You don't think we would have taken that? It's like, okay, you know what?

You're not wrong. I think anybody would take that deal. What's a relationship like where you live with Coach Sabin just because he coached LSU won a national championship? He's with your rival. And like you said, for a long period of time up until 19, beating your ass. And not just beating you, but then going on just natty,

Natty, Natty, it was, it's like the John Wooden to college football. Is it like a true hatred or is there like little respect because the fans watched him what he did for LSU? And even I think Nick, I don't know if he's publicly said this. I think I read it somewhere. He always regrets, you know, obviously the Miami situation. He could have just stayed at LSU and LSU just would have been Alabama. But who knows? You know, that's another thing.

There's a lot of, he has a lot of quotes out there kind of along, along those lines, right? Yeah. So it's not like he doesn't have hatred for. for LSU, the program besides their is rival now. You know, he understands. And there's always been urban miss. I don't know the veracity of this, but there's always been urban miss around here that like he wanted to come back to LSU after Miami, but LSU was a bit burned at the time.

And they just hired Miles. And they didn't really know like, if you think back to him at post Miami, we knew Sabin was good. We did not know he was the greatest of all time good yet. And so basically there wasn't enough moment to make. I don't know if that's true or not, but I've always heard the story that then, like, you know, they're like, no, you know what, you can't come back here. And then he goes to Alabama and look what happened.

I think that LSU fans, I think the, like what's your take on him as a player that played against him, but also coached your program. Sure, you've met him over the years. I have a grudging respect for him because, um, on one hand, he ruined, uh, the thing that I worked with for my entire life, right? That national championship, which I, I won one as a freshman, but I was redshirted, right? Scout team. It was nice, but it's not like being like a, you know, a main player on the team. So senior year, we're undefeated. We ended up losing 21-0-0 in the Natty, which everyone wants to act like, how'd that happen? There's all these rumors about scandal that. You know what happened? I think it's clear now. Nick Savon versus Les Miles. Okay, like, that's not that hard to understand as we've gotten distance. Was there was any ounce of your being walking out on that field, like before the first nap that you were winning that game? yeah yes there was but it quickly became apparent that no like I was in full belief I want to be clear by that

this was not a um this was not a oh we're fucked it was this is an oh we're fucked with the benefit of hindsight because all we did was practice different versions of the option for like two weeks when that's the only play we had success with game one it's just it but I was I was bought in I was bought in pregame and then it quickly became apparent oh shit we're not really well exactly what we are doing. We are in trouble. So on one hand, he's like this guy that I spent my entire life climbing out, this mountaintop, and it's about to summit. He kicks me in the chest and just ruins my dreams. But on the other hand, as you get to be an adult and you gain perspective, the golden age of LSU does not

happen without him. LSU in the 90s had lost its way. It was a joke. He was a joke. He was the one that had to come and prove the potential of what LSU could be. The old, you always hear the cliche about the sleeping giant, right? And every coach when he takes over a heralded program that's falling in a bad time, like it's a sleeping giant. Well, Nick Savon proved that. And without him, you don't have the last three LSU football coaches all taking home national championships. And look, at the beginning of the Miles era, yes, Miles was just winning with Savans

players, but Miles kept it going. Miles sounded his way back to a natty on his own, right? Now, eventually he stagnated and lost it. But like Nick Saban, ultimately, I think the more level-headed LSU fans, although there will always be frustration, always be hate. But the level-headed ones can accept that he showed you the potential of who you can be. And that has had a huge last seen impact, even as he's gone to Tuscaloosa and kicked your teeth in from time to time. I'll get you out here on this. I know you've had a long day. I got a question recently on a mailbag, and I think you fall under this category. What constitutes being able to say that you played in the NFL, basically starting from like making a training camp all the way to making a 53 man roster.

I claimed if you were drafted or an undrafted free agent, and I've been when I worked with Eagles, these training camp, I think if you're at a training camp and playing in the preseason game, games, you can act like you played in the NFL, not like you had an NFL career. Like when you, you never made a pass camp, correct? Correct. Yeah, no. I had, are you allowed to tell someone that you, your dad played in the NFL for a long time? Did you play in the NFL?

Do you believe that or? I, I, I, I, I was always a, you have to make P-Squad for one year. Practice squad counts for sure, because you play a season. Yes, exactly. If you could stick around for one year, then I think you made it. I think I had, I would say this about trying to make the NFL. I was an undrafted free agent of the Rams, and I could not have landed in a better spot. Like, I got every opportunity.

Jeff Fisher. Yeah, Jeff Fisher. They just signed the center, Scott Wells from Green Bay, who was really good and just an excellent teacher and kind of mentor. He was also hurt, though, during camp. So I basically got to take all the twos reps. I got to play a ton of snaps during the preseason. It was one of the coolest experiences of my entire life. I felt like I learned more football in those four months, five months,

however long it was that I did in five years in college. Like it gave me a real appreciation of the depth of football and just, and the only longing I have is I wish I could have continued to see just how deep that craft went and tried to master it. but ultimately, are you good enough? And I fucked up that fourth preseason game, man, had just an awful one. And me and this other guy,

Tim Barge were neck and neck. Who are they going to keep? And that ends up being the difference right there. And so I think I do not count myself as an NFL player, but I also think that it was one of the coolest and most invaluable experiences of my entire life. Now, it was also incredibly anxiety-ridden where every single day, every single play of every practice, you're like, fuck, like, if I fuck this up, like, I may be out of here tomorrow.

So I don't miss that aspect, but I do miss the skill level of the guys that I was going against. I loved just how mentally complex it had become and how much I was missing from. It's almost like I wish I could take those four months of knowledge and retroactively apply them to my college, where I was always viewed as like, oh, one of the smart guys. You know, you make all the calls later. Yeah, exactly. But like, but like it wasn't even close what we were asked to do in college or suddenly what Fisher and them had us doing.

And I loved it. And I loved it. But I kind of knew to, I think, I think, I think two things. I think for me personally, I think if I'm being completely honest with myself, I think I maybe could have stuck around on a roster for a couple of years, right? But everybody reaches a point where you're like, okay, you know, you're just, you're just outclassed. And I was starting to get there.

And then I think secondly, man, I don't think I wanted it with every fiber of my beam. I think I'm ultra competitive. I think I really wanted it. But I saw guys like Tyron Matthew where failure was not an option. Like it was never going to be on the table. For me, failure was devastating. It sucked. But I was going to be okay.

I have safety nets. You know, I have family. Like I was going to be okay. I see guys. out there who their drive just comes from something deeper, more intrinsic, more built into their DNA. And I think if I had had that, yeah, maybe I could have stuck around a bit longer, but I think, frankly, I did not.

You'll appreciate this, John. My favorite thing to say about my time in the NFL is that I think I lost money trying to make it. I got a, I got a $500 signing bonus. So after taxes, it was like 308, $308. And then like one of the first nights We all get there with the rookies We go all out to eat

You got paid as an undrafted free agent Uh yeah three three hundred eight no three hundred eight dollars yeah Not a thousand five hundred dollars shot Five hundred three three benjamas Lincoln and three Washington three hundred and eight dollars After taxes was my signing bonus right And then guys are getting cut that got like fifty thousand dollar sign bonuses like left and right. And so, but I remember like thinking like, okay, but like we're in the NFL.

Like we're going to get some sort of big checks. This shit will be nice. So one of the first night we went out, I think I spent like, fucking like $300 at a hooters or something. We were watching like a Timothy Bradley fight. And so next thing you know, I'm like, oh, wait, shit, there's no more money coming in. I think we got a camp per diem or something, but you don't actually get paid until after final cuts. So yes, I'm probably one of the rare people. who can claim that I lost money trying to make the NFL. I was in the red.

Okay, sorry, I got one more nerdy football question. You're playing Alabama. You played some of those good Florida teams. You know, clearly, if they have an individual who's going to be like a top five pick, but just on the whole, is that more difficult or the preseason game in the third or fourth quarter playing the backups?

Because everyone's like, well, everyone's a pro. Well, yeah, Florida or Alabama in their heyday, like Georgia right now or like LSU will be soon again, right? What was harder as a player? Separating the anxiety and the pressure of trying to make the team. It's different in college, right? You're on the team. Which is crazy.

Which is crazy because right on one hand, you're talking about playing in front of 100,000 people. On the other hand, you're talking about playing in front of a few thousand. People leave. Because your careers on the line, the few thousand actually feels like more anxiety-inducing. But in terms of being harder on the football field, it's still the preseason games, you know.

And maybe not, well, maybe not every game because, you know, like the third game, you're kind of matching up with other guys who probably aren't going to make it. But I did feel like during the practice, these NFL practices, while they weren't as physically demanding at a college practice where less miles would have us like three hours, full pads, like repeat it, just like plays, place, place. Yeah, yeah. It was, um, the, worst guy on the NFL roster was still that guy in college that you were like game planning

for like the guy that you were highlighting you're like okay we got to be ready to deal with him this week right and so just the overall talent level and make no mistake coming from the SEC to the NFL was not an overwhelming jump going from to a private uh white boy uh high school ball in georgia to LSU was a jump. When I'm all of a sudden, I'll never get the first day of practice I show about LSU. I got Glenn fucking Dorsey and Ricky Jean Francois, locking me out like the second the ball is.

I got these short little arms. They're floating around the air. I actually went in the bathroom and cried after the first practice. I'm like, I'm done, dude. Like, why did I can't do this? Did you call your dad and go, I don't know, man?

I did not. I did not call my old man. But shout out my old coach Bradley Dale Pivito, because I remember I did talk to him and he kind of helped me. Ease to do it, but I'll never forget that was a shock. When I got to the NFL, it was not a jump like that. But all of a sudden, everybody was like, you know, that best guy that you win against each week. So, so yeah, it's still, it's still harder in the league, even though playing against those Florida's and those Alabama's are great.

And you're still running into guys like Marcel Darius or Hight Tower or any of these guys that were beast back in the day. I don't, I don't know. I don't think I played I don't remember It's a pretty good defensive lineman when you were there I remember um shit I mean from Florida dude

Brandon Spikes was a bully Brandon Brandon Spikes was a dog back then I remember one time I went to cut him and I thought I nailed him and it was like I like hit his thigh and I just slid down like he didn't he didn't move

I just hit it like a cartoon and then just slid in my belly hit the ground I was like fuck I remember doing a point of attack tape in the NFL I was like the lowest level intern slash personnel guy. You put together and you're like, is this what it looks?

Oh my God. That guy just would mollywap people coming down hill. He was bad, dude. Those 40 teams. I can't wait to watch this Swamp King's documentary because Urban had it going at Florida that time. An eclectic bunch to say the least. It's like Pablo Escobar meets, you know, Jimmy Johnson.

Well, and you know what's wild to me? I was shocked when I learned this. And that's why I'm going to be interested. Florida does his neighbor era. When Urban Meyer was winning these Natty. I think he's in trouble would be my take. I think he is too. I think he is too.

But he at least has Florida starting to pay. I was just flabbergasted when I read the other day that in the Urban Meyer era, the only major construction project they did was building an entrance to

the coach's office in the stadiums where they could basically welcome recruits. They didn't have a football ops. When Urban Meyer showed up there, the coach's office, they entered through like a fucking like service gate and went up the stairs. They had nowhere to show off anything to recruits. And the one thing they built was they ended up building a little entrance way to the stadium

where here they had the trophies. They woke people in. But I mean, Nick Saban built a football ops at LSU back in like 2003 or 2002. It was like one of the like, like Spurrier set the tone there of Florida where we don't need all. this crap words going to win because they're better than you blah blah blah blah and it took a long time for them to kind of get out of that mindset and if nothing else now they're out of that mindset we is i mean

nabure's not being handed any favors by this uh this schedule just going to be brutal so we'll see okay well t bob you got a big uh big summer plans i'm sure enjoy the fan where snaps you guys got your own youtube channel defines you on podcast anywhere they listen you let it let it let rip where we yeah okay to check it out so uh snaps here the volume, which I love so much. If you just Google Snap's podcast, you can find the link for like Apple, Spotify, whatever. We're really trying to grow the YouTube.

YouTube.com slash at volume snaps, like, subscribe. They do such a great job of like putting out shorts and everything else. And like I said, man, I think it's a ton of fun. Like, like y'all showed John, thank you for having me, man. This is, this is really, really fun. For real. Yeah, you're the best, bro. We'll have to do it again.

Talk some college football when the season gets close. Take it easy, bro. Any time, man. All right, y'all, take it easy. Volume. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends.

Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

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