The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 3 and Out - Stafford Extension, Kyler and Wentz Bashing, Bezos Commanders, Carr's Vegas Future, Rodgers --> Broncos, Mailbag

Episode Date: February 15, 2022

John discusses if Matthew Stafford should take less money on his extension to help keep the Rams in Super Bowl contention, who he thinks is anonymously crushing Kyler Murray and Carson Wentz in the media. He also dives into some of the top headlines around the league, if the NFL could boot Dan Snyder to bring in Jeff Bezos in D.C., if the Raiders will trade Derek Carr, and answers listener questions in the Middlekauff Mailbag.Follow John and The Volume on Twitter, Instagram and YouTube for the latest content and updates and check out FanDuel for the best wagering and daily fantasy action! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Listen on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get, our podcasts. What is going on, everybody? John Middle Cup. Free and out podcast. I don't know why I'm talking weird. But it's Monday, the day after Super Bowl Sunday. And a lot going on in the NFL.

Explosive stories Sunday, as well as some more reaction to the game. We will dive into it all. I got takes. I got takes. And as well as subscribe to the podcast, If you found me through Collins Feed, hi, nice to meet you, how you doing? Subscribe to the Three and Out podcast.

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here on the show, we do it at the end every single show. Middlecoff mailback at John Middlecoff, which is my name, is the Instagram handle. So just fire into the Instagram. DMs, ask me whatever you want, can be about anything. Shit, I don't care. Tends to be about football, but life, you know, the trials and tribulations of this world. Hit me up. At John Middlecoff is the Instagram, Middokov mailbag.

And yeah, again, appreciate everyone that's been listening. We have a lot of new listeners. And I'm glad everyone likes the show. Let's rock and roll. Okay, before we dive into the biggest, I'd say, non-substableness. Super Bowl stories of Super Bowl Sunday in Kyler Murray, which Chris Mortensen dropped a boom. And Carson Wentz about whether the Colts are going to cut him or trade him, though I don't think he has much trade value. I've spent a lot of time really today thinking about Matt Stafford and Sean McVeigh. And both guys are up for contract extensions.

And, you know, I think we talk a lot about, you know, business angles on this show, leadership, and I believe to my core the number one attribute in leadership like anyone can handle when times are good like anyone can drive the bus in a company when money is flowing anyone can enjoy their relationship on their honeymoon

or on Valentine's Day at a nice dinner what happens when your company goes bankrupt what happens when your kid gets really sick what happens when crazy shit happens To me, that separates people, how you handle adversity. And we never know what it's going to be, personally or professionally. It is inevitable. If you live long enough, you're going to see a lot of it, whether it's death, whether it's economic issues.

We all see it. No one is immune. Not a soul is immune. And one thing I think was Sean McVeigh. And listen, I had a front row seat, incredible seats, paid a premium, to go. to that week 18 game against the ramps. 49ers Rams. And that is one of the coolest wins I'd ever witnessed,

but also one of the most devastating losses I'd ever seen. It was regardless what side you were on, it was either the highest of high or the lowest of low. And for the Niners, it was obviously such a big high because they got into the playoffs. For the Rams, it was bizarre because they lost to this team for the six straight time, but then because the Cardinals,

who are now talking, fucking mad shit about their quarterback. Lost to Seattle, didn't lose, got worked by the Seattle Seahawks. The Rams won the division. So the 49ers are celebrating on the field, and you saw it last night the way that their jumbo screen is basically a circular thing above the field. And it's going the NFC West champs.

Like they just won the NFC West. They're hosting a playoff game the following week. That's not easy to dust yourself off. They were in a tough spot, the head coach and the quarterback. How are they going to handle just this devastating moment? And they handled it with flying colors. Matt Stafford came back, the next two weeks, played flawless football, and Sean McVeigh got the troops ready.

And then they beat the Niners and they went on to win the Super Bowl. Like, it just doesn't get any better. And now Matt Stafford is up for a contract extension. And so is Sean McVeigh. Let's start with Sean McVeigh. You know, the going rate for Belichick, rumor has it he makes $25 million, $20 to $25 million. Then there was like the Andy Reed, Sean Payton, Pete Carroll crew all have one Super Bowl. And they all make, you know, $13, $14, $15 million.

But let's use like Sean Payton or Andy Reed. Last time I checked, living in New Orleans or living in Kansas City is a lot cheaper than living in L.A. So if I'm Sean McVey and I'm Sean McVeigh's agent, like yeah, the going rate for my resume now, I have all these wins, I have a winning percentage that's almost 700. I have seven playoff victories and I just brought a Super Bowl at home at SoFi Stadium. To me, $20 million when you factor in, there's a reason people pay more, like a job that pays 180 grand in San Francisco or L.A. pays 90 in Arizona or Vegas.

It's cost of living. And then you factor in just current inflation. I think $20 million is the starting point for Sean McVey. And how could you convince me that he's not worth it? When I think the L.A. Rams and they have a $40 million quarterback, Matt Stafford is not the face of the L.A. Rams. It's Sean McVey. That's what's kind of unique about this rivalry with Kyle Shanahan and Sean McVey.

They are the faces of their franchise. So to me, Sean McVeigh, I would say $20 million. Also, here's the other thing in California. Taxes. Like ultimately, what is my... net take home because if I'm making 15 million in Kansas City or I'm making 15 million in New Orleans, I'm taking home more than Sean McVey if he's making 18 or 19 million dollars. The going rate, all I care about is my net income. What is my net income? And what am I

worth to you, Stan? Because I'll tell you, I'm worth a shitload since you've hired me and I give you credit. You hired a 31 year old coach that a guy like me, a fellow millennial. I'm I think a year older in Sean McVeigh. I thought it was crazy. I'm like, how's this young guy going to be able to lead? Going to get a little. get in front of these older men, he's done it seamlessly. I mean, he's a superstar. He's a rock star. He's just a natural.

Some guys have it. We'll talk about Kyla Murray. Some guys don't. And Sean McVeigh clearly has it. And Matt Stafford, who we could debate for years whether he had it or whether he didn't have it, as long as he's got Sean McVeigh, he clearly has it. And you saw in the playoffs, you know, I don't know what. Matt Stafford, here's the thing with Matt Stafford.

he's made, I checked yesterday, I think it was like $265 million. He's made an unlimited amount of money. So this next contract, they're going to be willing to pay him a lot of money. But if you're Matt Stafford and you're on this loaded team, doesn't it behoove you? Like I never, like Kevin Durant, when he came to the Warriors, he renegotiate, or I guess it's different basketball. He signed a new contract when he was here. And he took quote unquote a little bit less to help them. bring some other guys on the squad.

And ultimately a little bit less was the difference between like 31 and 26 million. Like I don't give you that much credit for that. Like you're not really taking a discount. We talk about write-offs. We can talk about taxes. But you're being smart. I give you credit for having the foresight to now, listen, what's the difference of bringing an extra net 800 grand home

when I can put myself in a better situation? I would argue it would behoove Matt Stafford because the going rate, you know, is going to be $45 million. $10. Well, if you're Matt, is it that crazy to take like 32 to 35 and help your team? Like, you've already made the money. You had three contracts in Detroit that paid you a shitload of cash. Money will never be an issue. You came to L.A. for one thing and one thing only to win. And first year, you won a Super Bowl. Well, if I'm him and I see my coach who is, I'm surely going to sign a long-term contract, I'm licking my lips. Can I get a couple? Can I change the narrative?

where, you know, Richard Sherman and everyone on Twitter's arguing whether he's a Hall of Fame or not, I can't even. That's such a lowbrow argument right now. He's 34 years old. Tom Brady just played until he was 44. Why couldn't Matt Stafford play seven more years? What if he wins another two Super Bowls in the next five? Who knows?

He's in the middle of his career. We're always so quick to like make distinct judgments on people. Like, we got a sign this guy to a, no, we don't have to put a contract extension to Kyler Murray. He's going into year four. Then he's got a fifth year option. Like, they got time. We're always so quick to rush. Just take a deep breath.

But here's what Matt Stafford knows. Big picture, this franchise will do whatever it takes, sign whoever he needs to dominate. So if you told me Matt Stafford signed like a four-year $120 million contract, every penny guaranteed, but it was $30 million a year, I'd be like that. He's smart. You know, he's really, really bright. Now, the agents, they love getting their hands on that little percentage. they get, they can't, they puke in their mouth thinking about that, giving up that extra

20, 30, 40 million dollars. And listen, if you are ever at the point where you're making, it's a difference between like $5 million and $50 million, $500 grand and $2 million, I understand it. But we're talking about a guy that has already accumulated when you factor in off the field too, probably $350 million. Now it's about kind of racking up the legacy while you can continue you to make, you know, 30, 31, 32 million dollars. You want to take the 40 plus million dollars. Like, that's a little on you. And listen, I'm not one to pocket count.

You know, people get so offended. Like, why do you care where people? Well, because in a salary cap league, this shit matters. And we saw for a long time, like in Detroit, he was always taking these premiums because Tom Condon and his group have always believed that. And it was never a big issue with Peyton. Because he would, the famous story with Bill Paulian would be like, not enough.

and Condon would hang out. Like Condon was a killer when it came to negotiations. For Drew Breeze, for Eli, he makes all of his clients a shitload of cash. But not them all won. And they didn't all win consistently. So Matt Stafford has accumulated all this money. Like, I don't think it's crazy to think about, you know, taking a little less than the highest value to help your team build just a powerhouse operation.

Ask Tom Brady how that worked out. Because when you start racking up Super Bowls, you make money till the day you do. On January 19th, 2020 for BBDO and AT&T radio, ad ID AXWR 0975000. Spot title, Fiber Lifestyles Meet the Walker's BAU 60, 60 second radio. Gorgeous gaming, stunning streams, unbelievable bandwidth. Welcome to another lifestyles of gagillionaires. Meet the 18T fiber customers winning at life with hyper gig speed.

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Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the Ad Council. Let's get into the quarterback drama around the league. And let's start with Kyler Murray. You know I'm not the biggest Kyler Murray fan. I'm out. I said I was out the second stretch, you know, the second half of the season. I didn't even need to see the playoff game.

Cliff Kingsbury, never been a huge fan. I'm just, I fundamentally, philosophically, don't agree with the offense. Good guy. Don't love his football philosophy. Well, yesterday, Chris Mortensen had a tweet that blew me away. because he's a, he's a journalist. He's a big J, as they call it, in this modern day times.

And these guys abide by certain rules. They don't just throw, like, I'm nothing. I get offended when people call me a media, a media member. I can say whatever I want. I follow zero rules. I do whatever the fuck I want. Just because I'm here to entertain. I'm here to just give you my opinions.

It doesn't matter. I might be right. I might be wrong. Who knows? But guys like Chris Mortensen, they follow a code. And that code is they don't tweet, something like this unless it comes from a high level source.

And Chris Mortensen yesterday tweeted that Murray is described as a self-centered, immature finger pointer. Those are type things that I say. Not a guy like that. When he said that, I was like, holy shit. Well, the moment he says that, it got me thinking, who would want that out there? And who would have the juice to tell Chris Mortensen that information and then get him to tweet it?

If I'm just a random player on the Cardinals, and I DM Chris Mortensen, and I tell him this, Chris Mortensen's probably not tweeting it. I would argue there are probably three men that could give Chris Mortensen this information, and he would put it out. The owner, the coach, or the general manager. And I'd say the coach, kind of in a tough spot because he needs Kyler Murray. They are represented by the same guy. I don't know if it would behoove Cliff Kingsbury to do this.

because all of a sudden, I was thinking about like all the high level guys in the league and the league is full of high level guys and I'm glad. Because if the league was full of Kyler Murray's, I don't think I could do this. This reminds me of the National Basketball Association. It'd be like 10 Ben Simmons. And that's when I look at Kyler Murray, I see a Ben Simmons type. I see an individual that's in a team sport and playing the most important position and it's why the Cardinals are having a lot of issues.

Now he is an elite talent, so you're trying to balance how much you deal with it, but his issues are now well documented. They're not even arguable. But to me, Kyler Murray, like, you throw this out there, all of a sudden, Kyle Murray's not going to, you know, walk in to the mirror the next day and look at himself and go, I need a little introspection. I need to be a better guy. Because they're like, they really want Kyler Murray to be a better leader.

Well, this ain't going to work. This is only, when you're a self-sense, centered, egomaniac, kind of a questionable human, this makes it worse. You're going to get angry. We all know those type people. When you get aggressive with them, they get worse. It ain't going to change. Kyler Murray is what he is. Think about the leaders in the NFL. Joe Burrow hit the ground running. Justin Herbert, Patrick Mahomes, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson. Every single one of these guys were checking all these boxes. They're rookie year. People like, love the guy. Great leader. Awesome. We're so lucky to have him. Stud,

baller. We love, every guy in the team loves him. This is the type guy that you need to build around. Yet this guy, Larry Fitzgerald was like, I'm out. I can't even deal with this. I go to the owner, because when you think about Michael Bidwell, think about the two best

quarterback since he's taken over that he's been around. Kurt Warner and Carson Palmer. So he's seen guys that they've paid a premium that have led them to the Super Bowl. I guess Carson led him to the NFC championship. But really far in the playoffs, right?

They came within a big bend throw to San Antonio Holmes of winning a ring with Kurt Warner. And then I guess they got stomped by the Carolina Panthers. I didn't remember because I bet on the Arizona Cardinals in that game. But Michael Bidwell has seen two stud quarterbacks that are high-level guys. So he knows what it looks like. I could see Michael Bidwell kind of being pissed off

in the sense that he knows he's kind of stuck. You know, he's Cliff Kingsbury's his coach. Kyler Murray's his quarterback. they're kind of tied at the hip. You can't have one without the other, but you're pissed off, you want to vent out, so you tell Chris Mortensen, I mean, this is crushing the guy.

It would not make sense for Steve Kime to put this out. Because ultimately, what good is it going to do? Like, I'd say most GMs, I'm not saying they don't talk like this when they have a player, but they wouldn't want this out in the public. And for Cliff, ultimately, he has to coach him.

So why would you try to poke the bear and make this, edgy little moody guy worse. Albert Brear wrote today that one issue the Cardinals have with him is he's not really a first-in, last out type guy. Do you know the stories that were coming out about Matt Stafford and Cooper Cup this week? They met like twice a week at 6 a.m. during the season. Like that's what they were doing.

That's the competition you have, Kyler. And Kyler's like, well, baseball, we just show up, we eat a peanut butter sandwich, we take some BP and we go play games. This is the National Football League. and ultimately now we're talking about paying a guy $150 million guaranteed. There is under no circumstances would I pay this guy. And two, I'm in no rush to do anything. And I say that all the time.

I said that last year about Lamar Jackson. Just pick up his fifth year option and just let it play out. And if we're going to, I hate, and I repeat, I hate dealing with drama when you aren't an elite player. There are two guys in this league at quarterback that come. their franchises, just some lost sleep, and pulling their hair out and piss them off. But they're good enough. They're both probably the two best players in the history of the franchise, Russell Wilson and Aaron Rogers. And I wouldn't put either one of those guys in the Kyler

realm of being lazy or whatever. Because that's kind of the knock on Kyler right now. Self-centered, finger pointer, who's lazy. That's not the knock on Aaron Rogers or Russell Wilson, but they just create some drama. So now I got a guy who's not getting it done. and the word on him is he's lazy and he's a finger pointer and he's my quarterback the Cardinals are fucked just period point blank end of story

I don't know what they do they write it out another year they may make the playoffs they may not and then he'll have to blow it up you know and to me once your quarterback is labeled as not being a leader and not being a guy that other people

want to spend time with like the whole league's out of my guy Like that's just something that is just a non-starter for anyone worth their salt that is in the business of football. I say it all the time. What Mitch Morris said, the Center for the Buffalo Bills, going in to the Bill's Chiefs game, the attribute that those two guys had in common, Patrick Mahomes and Josh Allen, the number one thing he said they're both approachable. Ultimately, what he was saying is people like them.

People don't like this guy. When they don't like your quarterback, you're screwed. Hell, Jimmy Garapolo isn't half as good as this guy. in terms of talent. Yet everyone like Jimmy G. Everyone from Trent Williams to George Kittle to Kyle Shanahan. They just like him.

There's something to be said about just being liked. Chris Mortensen said it all. Big Jay absolutely destroying Kyler Murray. To me, I don't see how this doesn't come from the owner. And honestly, if I was Michael Bidwell, I probably would be blasting him too because I know there's nothing I can do.

I'm not going to trade him this offseason who's going to play quarterback for me. I can't really fire my coach at this point. I'm just kind of in bed with these two guys. Hope they can figure it out. But usually, you know, a leopard doesn't change its spots. Not at 23, 24, 25 years old. You can mature a little bit.

But at this point, like, come on. If you're not out on this guy, I don't know what's sell you. And then there's Carson Wentz. And there was a story that was, I guess Chris Mortensen said this on television, that the Colts, because they have to guarantee like 15 million, the new league year and they don't necessarily want to do this. Well, he didn't say them specifically. He just said that they may cut or trade him.

And I saw Coward tweeted out and let's face it, Colin and Chris Ballard are pretty tight. And he said that is the type story that leaks when the owner is all up in his feelings. And to me, I completely agree. This is the type story that gets leaked from Jim Ursay. Because Jim Ursay, who witnessed that final game, the Jags game, he saw, like, they got fleeced in the trade. Let me repeat. Absolutely fleeced by the Eagles.

They owe them the 16th overall pick, and they did not make the playoffs for Carson Wentz, who there is no chance I'd say they could trade right now for more than a fourth, even a fourth. Like, I wouldn't trade him for a fourth. Like, here's a reality on Carson Wentz. He went to a team with a star offensive line, with a star running back,

and a really good defense, and he was just meh. He's just, eh. Like, Carson Wentz, a couple years ago, I was one of his biggest fans. I'm a sucker for big guys with big arms who can move. He just never got any better. And part of that might have been the injuries. Part of that might have been he's just mentally fragile,

and there's always Nick Falls and then Jalen hurts. Like, I can't deal. Like, Kyler Murray, I don't deal with diva quarterbacks who aren't winning playoff games. I don't deal with mentally fragile quarterbacks. like Tom Brady they once drafted Jimmy Garoppel. No big deal. He went on to win Super Bowls.

Now, I just saw Jimmy Garoppolo. They brought in Trey Lance. Boom. Took him to help. I took them. It would be strong. But was a quarterback on team that went to the NFC championship game.

If you're mentally fragile at quarterback, it's hard to operate. And then when you're not actually getting it done, like I understand Jim Ursay being pissed up. Just like I understand Michael Bidwell being pissed off. Because you're kind of stuck with this quarterback. But the difference is, you know, like both guys,

you're going to cut them for what, for who? Who are you going to get to play quarterback for you? You're just going to eat this one. You've got taken advantage of in the trade, and you're kind of stuck. Now, you could do the counter argument. If I bet $100,000 on a stock, and it goes down $50,000,

so I'm in the whole $50,000. Sometimes I struggle with this. Should I sell that stock, take a $50,000 hit, and use that $50,000 and try to put it in something else and gain the money back? or do I just let it ride and hopefully it goes back up and I end up big picture making more money because you always run the risk

that 50 could go to 20 pretty quick but also that 50 could go back to 80 or 90 within a couple months. You just never know. Carson Wentz next year could play better than he played this season. And you know, he missed a game right with the vaccine thing. No, he actually didn't.

He missed a week of practice. I guess it was the Raiders week. But they ended up losing that game, which was crazy. I mean, I thought the Colts that week were like the lock of the week. And I understand being angered when you feel you got fleeced on the deal and being mad at your general manager and mad at your coach. But you're kind of stuck with it. And there's nothing you can do.

And I totally agree with Colin. This is the type story that comes from the owner. Honestly, Chris Mortensen, who's just an all-time, you know, legendary NFL reporter. Like, he talks to the highest of high guys in these organizations. And you don't put stories out like this on the story. star players. It's one thing with a guard or a wide receiver or safety. No one gives a shit. But those guys, you know, it's part of the NFL, the turnover. With quarterbacks, you get a little sensitive about what you're saying about them publicly. And to me, both these two comments

come from someone that just doesn't care about offending them because ultimately they're writing the check. Some other stories this week is a rap sheet. I've never seen a Sunday night news drop during the Super Bowl Rapsheet tweeted out a story that Stephen Ross who supposedly offered Brian Flores $100,000 to lose a game

and let's not get it twisted that was the right move because if the dolphins had Joe Burrow they would have been in the playoffs this year hell they might have been in the Super Bowl it's Brian Flores winning those last two games in 2019 is one of the dumbest things I've ever seen in my life watching NFL football

when you're three and 11 and to win your last two games to go from drafting one overall with a historic quarterback coming out in the draft and ended up with Tua, like it's just, the results speak for themselves. Somehow, he's still able to win 19 games, but didn't make the playoffs either time. The story basically says that

if they find him guilty, there can be an owner's vote and they can vote him out. Now, I don't know how, I don't know any NFL owners, but to me, if Stephen Ross, like, if it was Dan Snyder, you'd be like, he's gone. They are 100% voting him out.

And that story is kind of flying around too. Like, they're finally going to have their opportunity. Like, yeah, wake me when they kick Dan Snyder. We've been saying this for six years, and he's got nowhere. I mean, the closest it got, John Gruden got fired. So can we stop acting like Dan Snyder is going anywhere? Because it feels like Stephen Ross is closer to getting booted. But if Stephen Ross is friends with the owners,

because that's, it's just the 32 guys. like Roger Goodell works for all these guys. If those guys like them, they won't give a shit and they won't vote them out. So to me, it's all going to come down to his relationship with his partners. If it's good, he's fine. If it's shitty, it's over. Now, I don't think necessarily the NFL wants to get in the business of booting people out of the league. I think it's a slippery slope.

I know Mark Cuban has said that before. Now, when you do something that you got to go, you got to go. It was an easy one. Like, Adam Silver has gotten so much credit for so many years kicking out Donald Sterling. Donald Sterling was one of the biggest pieces of shits in American history. People hated the human being.

And Silver got all this credit when he finally booted him. It's like, bro, do you guys have been, you wanted to do this forever. Like, you don't get credit for kicking out some big time, just absolute scumback. And listen, is Dan Snyder that level of scumbag? maybe. I don't know, never met the guy. But clearly everyone in the league hates him.

And I think one of the main reasons they want them out is because they want Bezos to buy that team. They want him to buy the Washington football team commanders. Are they not the, I guess you got to call them the commanders. Even though I really like the football team. I just would have called them the football team. They want Bezos to own that team. And if you're Bezos, like you don't just want to own any team, right?

You want to own the team that you want to own. Why? Because when you're worth $5, billion dollars, you only buy things you want to buy. You don't like, well, I don't really want the Denver Broncos, but I want to get in the end. No, I want the Washington commanders. That's the squad I want. And that's why I believe they truly want him out. Stephen Ross, it'll just come down to, you know, what they feel about him. Who knows? You know, sometimes rich people like other rich people, sometimes they don't. Who knows? The Raiders, a story came out yesterday by a rap sheet was just keeping them common here. That they

want to extend Derek Carr. And there was also some numbers floated out like $5, $200 million. A lot of money for a guy with no playoff victories. But, you know, the going rate for these quarterbacks, back to Matt Stafford, it's astronomical numbers. Once guys start signing for over $40, $42 million,

like that sets the new standard. Now the salary cap goes up. But I see both sides of this. If I'm Josh McDaniels, and this is my last shot, right? The Denver thing went poorly. I spurned Indianapolis. My name, you know, had kind of been,

it just fallen out of favor a little bit, right? Even though I'd been the number one coordinator in the league, it feels like the last four or five years as a true offensive coordinator, I finally take this job, this is my shot. And we see these teams, the Carolina Panthers, the commanders, all these teams, it's weird even saying commanders, I'm going to be honest,

that don't have a quarterback, he got no shot. And they have a quarterback who's not a top five guy, but he's like a top 12 guy. and you can compete and make the playoffs with. In a division that has Patrick Mahomes, that has Justin Herbert, and more than likely he's going to have Aaron Rogers. So even if you could trade,

and you could trade Derek for several first-round picks, who would play quarterback for you? When you're in a division that you've got to play six of the best play... I mean, if Aaron Rogers is traded in Denver Broncos, you've got to play Mahomes and Aaron Rogers four fucking times and Justin Herbert. I don't care how bad Brandon Staley is. If I got to play Justin Herbert, that is not an easy day at the office.

So it makes sense to figure this out. But my counter is just like, well, couldn't you just play this season out and see how you vibe with Derek? Because if you sign Derek to this massive $130, $140 million contract, you are tied at the hip with a quarterback you've never coached. And you just don't truly know how you guys are going to interact, how you're going to like coaching him. We see it all the time with these coaches. They sign a contract and then a couple years later and Derek is better than Jared

Gough. But it was within a year of Jared Gough taking the ramps to the Super Bowl that Sean McVeigh couldn't even look at him anymore. He's like, I've had enough. So I would be very hesitant to sign someone. You would never get, you know, married without meeting someone, right? And I know technically these guys have met. But without dating. them for a minimum, you know, a year, I would say. Wouldn't you want to spend some time together, just the weekly grind of the season, training camp, seeing how you guys vibe? Like, that's what I would recommend.

Plus, like, what's the rush? Where's he going to go? He's already said on the record that he'd retire before he left the Raiders. So he's telling you that he wants to stay there. I would be very, very hesitant if I was Josh McDaniel and Ziegler of just signing a long-term contract until I coached them, until I got in the trenches against these guys, and I see how it goes.

Because what he did for Rich and John is somewhat irrelevant to me if I'm Josh McDaniels. Now, the counter would be, we just saw Josh figured out of Mac Jones. Derek is clearly more talented than Mac Jones, but once you sign these enormous contracts, you are just stuck with the guy and his enormous cap number.

You just don't have any flexibility. I understand why Sean McVeigh and Matt Stafford signed a huge deal. They know what they're getting. He just spent a year with him. Hell, they just won the Super Bowl. I just, I'm hesitant to do stuff like this until I get my hands on someone as a GM or a coach just because we change our minds.

Things change so fast in football. You know, these are fluid operations. Carson Wentz was an MVP to now team. can't stand the guy. Tyler Murray a couple years ago, Locke number one picked and now people are calling them a self-centered basically asshole. It's 24 months.

This notion that you just Kumbai off for eight years it's just not the case in most of these situations. And obviously Derek's a high character guy, hard worker. So I'm not comparing him to those individuals, but I always thought Jared Gough, great guy, people liked him. Until Sean McVeigh hated him.

So you just I just think we need to pump the break sometimes on giving these enormous contracts. And last is the Packers, you know, if I told you right now, you know, at dinner time, I'm going to want to eat. That's like the Packers saying, we're ready to give Aaron Rogers a lot of money.

We know that. We understand that you guys will do anything humanly possible to keep Aaron Rogers. You would be morons if you wouldn't, right? You just won back-to-back MVP's. You guys have won, it feels like 13, 13,000. 39 games, the last three years in the regular season.

You've been the number one seed the last two seasons. Your division sucks. Your quarterback Jordan Love, probably just not very good. You know, by year two, we watched them against Kansas City. Now, that's not an easy place to play, but look like a practice squad player, not, you know, a late first rounder. And really where you're drafted at quarterback, I mean, some guy, Dak Prescott was good right away.

He was a fourth rounder. You know, we've seen Josh Rosen basically, you know, is an immediate backup two years after getting drafted number 10. So once you get to the NFL, what you did in college is kind of irrelevant. And let's face it, Josh, Jordan Love in college wasn't that great. So I think the Packers will do absolutely anything to keep Aaron Rogers, but it's out of their control. You know, I watched the NFL awards.

They tweeted out, I think the NFL tweeted out, Aaron Rogers giving the speech about winning the MVP. And he went out of his way to talk about Matt LaFleur and giving him credit for his. his individual success these last couple years, how much he meant to him personally. And it's clear. You say what you want about Aaron Rogers,

he was not faking that. He has a lot of love toward LaFleur. Clearly, his relationship with McCarthy, Aaron couldn't stand him. A meathead and an intellect, it didn't work. This relationship with LaFleur really works. Literally on the field. They win a ton of games.

Rogers is, you know, racking up MVP's, their offense is dominating, they're hosting playoff games. but it does feel like Rogers kind of had his mind made up and you know Colin used to say this a lot like there's no happy happier and sometimes like it's just as good as you get but as human beings you know I can speak for guys sometimes we just you know we just believe there is

or we're just you know kind of stubborn with like we want to do something else whether it's right or wrong when we get our mind made up you know just there's no turning back once we get something in our head no matter who around us tries to talk us out of it, that maybe this isn't a good idea, like take a deep breath, relax. Because I know I can speak for myself. Like, once I get it in my head, I'm ready to roll. And I just wonder if Aaron, you know, the Goudicans thing was an easy out for him.

It was kind of saying that, you know, I hate this guy, I want out. And we tried to break it down. Like, what was, it was hard to really get concrete evidence what there was. And as the season went on, it was like, you know, they're actually buddies. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

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Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream,

this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clivert Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and a TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Now, they're friends. And obviously he loves the coach. But maybe Aaron just had his mind up. He just wants to leave Green Bay. And sometimes it might just be as simple as that.

I don't want to live here anymore. I don't want to live here anymore. I know I'm going through that right now. I don't want to live here anymore. I'm just ready to go. Whether that's right or wrong, I don't know. Only time will tell. But my mind's made up.

I don't want to be here anymore. more. And if you're Aaron Rogers, you go, well, they'll pay me a lot of money too. I'll be on a team and we'll win a bunch of games. So it's not like I got to take a pay cut. And two, I can live in a city where I want to live. I actually think that's kind of relatable. Again, it might not be the right football move. But once you get your mind made up, you know, especially if you're a stubborn, headstrong guy, which clearly he is, I don't think there's any looking back. I mean, I think it'll be a shocking story. I'll be stunned if Aaron Rogers is not on the Denver Broncos.

I mean, I fully expect it. Now, whether that's just me reading the internet, but I don't see how you could watch his MVP speech, the way he talked to LaFleur, and really the organization is kind of a good buy and not believe... Now, it might be a different team, but it just feels like Nathaniel Hackett,

they hired him because that's Rogers guy, UC Davis, another intellect, neurobiology major at UC Davis, I see them seen on the same page. And I think the only thing that might even cause, give him a little pause, would be LaFleur. But I don't know if that's enough. I think he's just ready to be neighbors with Peyton Manning and John Elway and start

playing Mahomes and Herbert. Are you looking for the hottest gambling advice out there? Check out the Moneyline Monaco podcast powered by Fandul every weekday. Our guy Alex Monaco will give you his best bets, including game picks, props, same game parlays, and much more. Monaco is in another groove and is one nearly six. 60% of his bets all time. So don't miss your chance to make some money

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Fire into those DMs. Question answered here in the show. Start with Nick. Born and raised in Seattle. Now love and life living in the Carolinas. Always kind of wanted to go to the Carolinas. Graduated four years at EWU, Eastern... Washington University?

The same four years as Cooper Cup. Was their playing? Loved watching him. I always thought he would be great. We see him breaking all these records. I feel he isn't even being talked about by the media. Is it his personality? What will he need to do to become more of a household name?

Semi football fans here in Charlotte? Don't even know who he is? Well, he's a footballer. He's Super Bowl MVP. You know, he won a Super Bowl MVP. So I think sometimes, like, you know, if you're worth your salt, who cares what other people are saying about you?

I mean, honestly, so if like DeAndre Hopkins and Keenan Allen get talked about, like you want a Super Bowl MVP. You've been on a team that's now been to multiple Super Bowls. You've been on a team that won a Super Bowl. You've been on a team that wins a bunch of playoff games. That's all, you know, you get the respect of your peers. I don't know what it is, but he's a stud.

I honestly, I think I've said this before. I think I said this on the pod the other night, is not that I disrespected him, I undervalued how good he was. And there is still, as someone that can, I can consume sports from the couch with the best of them. I am the Tom Brady of watching sports from the couch. I could dominate.

I knew I was good at it and I turned into a living. But there are things that you miss that when you go to a game, specifically in my opinion in basketball and football that you just do not pick up at home. Like golf, I watch a lot of PGA tour golf. I've been to a lot of golf events. You don't see anything.

It kind of sucks. Unless it's a waste management. You're getting plastered. Then it's fun. But in a football game and a basketball game, especially if you got good seats, you learn things about players. You really do.

It's why historically a lot of teams, GMs and coaches, sign guys that give their team trouble. because when you experience it, it's a different feeling. And when I watch him in that week 18 game, I went, I've been watching, I've been coming to NFL games long enough

to know this dude's a stud. Now, obviously his numbers were already awesome, but, you know, he, not that he needed to earn my respect, but I would, I'd argue that dude any day of the week now. He's a baller. A big Raider fan. As a Raider fan, of course, I'm back and forth with Derek.

I think we kind of know who he is and his cap by now probably better than most quarterbacks in the league, but still just slightly better than average. So here's my question. If the Raiders wanted to make a splash trade and trade for Russell Wilson, what do you think the compensation looks like for the Raiders? Is it easy as Carr, Abrams, and a first, or do you think they would want more? Why don't think anyone wants Jonathan Abram? I don't think he has much value.

And Seattle, you know, they got this guy. that they kind of overspent. The money, actually, they didn't pay him that much money. I think everyone freaked out his contract, but they gave up two first round picks and a second. Jamal Adams, who is basically a better version of Jonathan Abram. I think the deal, if that was even an option, would be something like Derek and two ones for Russell Wilson.

I mean, Russell Wilson is the first bout of Hallfamer. Derek's played in one playoff game. I like Derek, but he's only a couple years younger than Russell. I think it would be two ones and Derek Because if you say Derek's worth You know two ones I think that would be I think Derek would get you two ones Or at least a one in a couple twos

No I mean shit if Jamal Adams getting you two ones and a two yeah Derek So the going rate for Russell Wilson in my opinion be four ones So Derek and two ones Boom It doesn't feel like that's going to happen I've been a chief fan my whole existence And really curious as what you're

What they're going to do this off season To recover from the heartburn breaking aFC title loss. They are so talented, and I don't think they would do as bad other teams in their following years after losing a conference championship. My concern is Andy, an amazing coach in Hall of Famer, but I just don't think we play to our maximum level. We see other teams around the league going younger on their coaching staff.

And it ends Wonders in McVeigh, Shanahan, Zach Taylor, but in Green Bay when Rogers had McCarthy, not nearly as good as KC's personnel. Yeah, I'm going to push back on this. Andy Reid's elite. He's taking you guys to multiple Super Bowls. He won your franchise of Super Bowl. That game to Cincinnati sucked. But I watched him come back after losing a devastating game at home

to Belichick and Brady and you guys won the Super Bowl the next year. And then you guys won the Super Bowl and you went back to the Super Bowl. And it was just a bad match if you were missing your two tackles. And then after losing the Super Bowl, boom, you guys were hosting the AFC championship game again.

So to me, part of the reason moving off Mike McCarthy in Green Bay, he wasn't good enough. You know, part of the reason they got McVeigh and Shanahan is they had Chip Kelly and Jeff Fisher. All Andy does for you guys is win, and wins big. Big. It's as good as you guys have ever had it. Ever. So I'm biased, but come on. What are we talking about here? Do you believe the Raiders having Josh McDaniels is going to give a boost to Derek Carr? If you play fantasy football dynasty and you've got a top three pick, who are the top guys you think?

I would say Mahomes, I mean, depending on Rogers goes, Rogers and probably like Herbert or Lamar. Now, does Dynasty, does that factor in youth? I'm not a big fantasy football player beside Daily Fantasy? but that would be my answer. Do you think that McDaniel in Miami could have gotten more out of the Niners' offense with Tua or Jimmy this season? How is it that he in Miami, do you think?

Yeah, I mean, if Kyle Shanahan had Tua, Tua would look better than he looked in Miami. Right? Because the Niners have more skill guys. They have a better running game. They have George Kittle, who's better than Gaseki, and they have Dibo Ayyuk. Now, Waddle's pretty good, but Debo's better.

Now, is Mike McDaniel going to be a good head coach? I don't know. I'm rooting for him. Loveling little guy, but only time will tell. Now that Dave Gettelman is no longer the GM for the Giants, after completely ruining the Carolina Panthers, do you think he ever gets another NFL opportunity?

Big fan, fallen since 18? I don't. I'm pretty sure, isn't Dave Gettelman, like, in his mid-60s, too? And as Phil Savage once famously told me, most general managers get one shot. So Dave Gettelman getting multiple shots is pretty nuts. And the only way he got his... Dave Gettelman's 70 years old.

So the answer is no. Not that he would get three GM opportunities, but if the Giants in the Maras didn't know the guy, he never would have been hired as a general manager again. You make my two-hour drive easy? Appreciate it. How do you, I'm a big Carolina fan in Minnesota.

The NFC South is wide open now that Peyton and Brady have retired. What can Carolina do to make a run next year in the future? Pickett is not our guy, I hope. If you were the GM, what would you do to make us a contender for the next year or years to come? Thank you again for being a guy of the people.

Also, I live for draft season. If you ever need assistance in the future for scouting prospects, I would love to help you. No cost. We don't do. We pay for services where I come from. We do not like free work. I would say Carolina's number one issue by a country mile is quarterback play.

And listen, I got to take the L on Sam Donald. I thought it was going to be a good value. I wanted the Niners to trade for him. He was a fucking utter disaster last year. He's like a poor man's James Winston. To me, if you could just get him, like he was a bottom 7-8 quarterback in the NFL. He was terrible. Now, I'm biased, SC guy, West Coast guy, I want to root for Sam Donald, but just watching

him play football last year was disgusting. I mean, it was really, really hard to watch. And it's not like he's not tough. It's not like he just so reckless with the football, he makes terrible decisions. Can they coach that out of him? maybe a little bit to me if they could just have him be a top 18

quarterback in the NFL instead of a bottom I said bottom 7 he might have been bottom like three or four why couldn't they win eight nine games their defense is actually pretty good now Christian McCaffrey who is elite when he's on the field gets hurt a lot so if somehow

they can just keep Christian McCaffrey on the field somehow turn this guy's turnovers and just bring them back to earth a little bit bit. I know he missed a bunch of games, but I feel like Sam Donald had a bunch of picks. Now, here's the other thing. They fired Joe Brady midseason. Sam Donald had 13 interceptions. Holy moly. I'm pretty sure he played in like 10 games.

Sam Donald played in he started 11 games. I guess he got hurt in one. So that's bad. Yeah, to me, Christian McCaffrey, the new offensive coordinator, is it, did they hire Macadoo? Yeah, I think they hired Macadoo. Here's what I'll say about Macadoo. McAdoe's first year in New York,

Eli was awesome, and the Giants' offense with Odell Beckham was sweet. Joe Brady, let's face it, wrote a media hype train. I don't, did I ask Eddie O about Joe Bray? I don't think I did. But, you know, Joe Brady became this, like, mythological figure

who couldn't really call plays and couldn't hit impact the quarterback. So, you know, it's just going to come down to can Macadoo just get Sam Darnold to play under control? Ben McAdoe, I'm pretty sure he's the offensive coordinator. Ben McAdoe, where's he coaching? Remember Ben McAdoe changed his, yeah, Carolina Panthers, offensive coordinator.

One thing with the Green Bay guys, they all kind of stick together. He was McCarthy's guy, then he went to the Giants, then they fired him, and then somehow he was a consultant for the Dallas Cowboys, and now he's an offensive coordinator. Everyone made fun of Ben McAdoo's year getting rehired. I don't think it's that crazy. I'm reading right now, McAdoe joined Tom Coughlin staff as the O.C. in 2014.

In his first season as the offensive coordinator, the Giants improved from the 28th scoring offense in 13 to the 13th and 14. And then in 2015, the offense took another leap forward, becoming the sixth highest scoring offense, despite losing left tackle and Victor Cruz. Like, talk about all the stats you want. Do you score fucking points? And I vividly remember Eli Manning, Odell Beckham,

scoring some points. So, now, do they have Odell Beckham? They don't, but DJ Moore is pretty good, and if you can keep McCaffrey on the field, maybe draft some offensive talent, obviously Sam Donald is not Eli Manning, but if he makes Sam Darnold or Sam Darnold just a, functional guy.

Don't sleep on Ben Magadu. But you were definitely one of my favorites. I'm by no means an exes nose guys with football. I'm not either. I have been watching my whole life but never played past middle school. I don't get the philosophy teams took

to cover Cooper Cup. Why didn't the Bengals give him the Megachon treatment once Odell Beckham Jr. went down. He torts them the whole fourth quarter and was pretty much their entire offense. I just don't get why they don't double him off the bat. Well,

I'm not a defensive coach, and I'm definitely not a defensive schematic guy. But if you're just playing basic human beings, right, especially in the middle of the field, and I put two guys over the top of Cooper Cup. Well, one, the rules have kind of change. It's harder to be like Richard Sherman level physical. Who are the Bengals corners, Eli Apple and some other random guy? If Cooper Cup finds a way to split those two guys or anyone else on the field, Van Jefferson and some of those random tight ends they have get open,

The white dude from Notre Dame, Scargwick, you got problems. So I have no problem doing bracket coverages, but I do think just putting two guys on them in the red zone, it might make some sense. Should they have done that on the game winning touchdown, for sure? Put two guys on them, you're not just going to run a basic fade. That was too easy. What are we doing?

But to me, throughout the entire field, I think you just got to bring a safety over and basically have the corner trail them underneath, with a safety over the top. I'd be like, Matt, you got to make a miraculous throw. But I think doubling him at the line of scrimmage with two guys, kind of like a punt,

is pretty risky when you're talking about, I mean, Cooper Cup might be a Hall of Famer. So if he's able to kind of get loose, one, you're also giving up numbers other places. I do understand the risk. The red zone and the game winning touchdown, for sure. But I've been saying that for weeks and no team can cover him.

The Niners couldn't cover. them twice. The Bucks couldn't cover them. Vance Joseph couldn't dream of covering them. You know, I don't know. It's just maybe every defensive coach is an idiot, or maybe it's actually harder than you think. I saw this stat today that the 49ers five losses.

In 2012, they lost to the New York Giants. The New York Giants won the Super Bowl. In 2013, they lost to the Ravens in the Super Bowl. In 2014, they lost to Seattle in the conference championship. Seattle won the Super Bowl. In 2019, they lost the Chiefs in the Super Bowl And in 2022, they lost the Rams who were Super Bowl champs. So if you beat the Niners, you're going to win the Super Bowl in the playoffs. You got that going for you.

Last question. I was catching up on some old three-in-out pods, and I heard you mention Brett Farf's three MVP awards. I'm too young, but I've heard debates that Barry Sanders should have won the award in 1997 outright. Instead, we have the first co-NvPs. I was 13 years old. I can't speak to that season in terms of,

I mean, those guys were clearly the two best players in the league, two of probably the best five. I mean, they're two of the greatest players ever. I'm bringing up Barry's 1997 season. Wasn't bad. He had 2,000 yards. He had 11 touchdowns. He averaged six years.

yards an attempt. He caught 33 balls and also had three touchdowns. Best season of his career. You know it's pretty crazy. Is that Barry Sanders from 1994 till 1998, 1,800 yards, 1,500 yards, 1,500 yards, 2,000 yards, 1,500 yards. Then he retired. 30 years old. He won the MVP, played one more year, and then retired. That's pretty freaking nuts. Here's the other thing with Barry. Sanders, who honestly might be underrated. He won an MVP, and he finished second in the MVP award another time, and he finished third another time. That's pretty wild.

He was an all-pro one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight. I mean, he's one of the greatest careers ever. But Brett, Brett was pretty freaking good. Also, Trayvon Diggs Comparing the interception yards to yards allowed Does this impact lean positive or negative? Interceptions got to take the cake over the yards allowed, right? Obviously he made the Pro Bowl, but that's all rigged anyway.

To me, part, I know he gave up a lot of yards. I think it was like a historic amount of yards. But when you have, whatever, what do you have? 11 interceptions? And didn't he also have like five or six picks? sixes. So he literally scored touchdowns. He had...

Diggs was awarded. He had 11 interceptions. How many touchdowns do you have? He had two touchdowns. I don't know, man. I mean, I know he's got some issues in terms of man-to-man coverage, but the guy makes the place. I can live with playmakers, man. When I was with Philly, we had Asante. Asante gave him some big plays.

Also picked the ball off a lot. Marcus Peters, drive you nuts, dude causes fumbles and picks the ball off. This guy gives up some plays, makes him plays. Ultimately, I want playmakers. Now, what I like is to consistent, every down, Dorel Rivas, of course. How many Dorel Rivas is coming around?

Newsflash, not many. So if I had to go with just an average corner or this dude, I'd go with this dude. Now, is he going to have three straight years of seven, eight picks? Because if next year he gets one pick, and he's giving up all those yards, then we got issues.

But if every year he's going to give me seven, eight turnovers, I can live with some giving up touchdowns. Especially, I have a loaded offense. I'm going to score. Does he give my offense more possessions? Because isn't that the goal? If I have a big-time offense,

which the Cowboys do, in theory, and I get more possessions than you over the course of the season, I'm going to score more points than my opponent, and I'm going to have a winning record, and I'm going to go to the playoffs. Like, the point of the game, I think sometimes the analytical elites, as I call them,

overthink this whole thing. It's literally to score more points than the opponent. One thing, Belichick, I mean, I've never met the guy, but just people that have been around him and just listen to books about his philosophy, he's big on the red zone. Like, he's consumed with the red zone during the week of practice, during their preparation,

because that's where you fucking score. And if his defense can give up 500 yards a game, but be one of the best scoring defenses, a.k. not give up that many points, he's going to win more games and he loses. All that matters is, you know, holding you to field goals instead of touchdowns, holding you to punts instead of being in field goal range.

Because ultimately, if I'm going to score more points than you, like that is the point of this whole sport. The reason the Rams are Super Bowl champs, they scored more points than Cincinnati Bengals. I think on the most basic premise of just athletics, and now with the numbers and everyone who dives in, some of this stuff really does matter. But ultimately, the only thing that matters,

especially in football, is points. How many points do you score? How many points do you allow? I mean, I know in golf, all the strokes gained off the T, strokes gained, you know, with your iron, stroke gain on the green. Like, you know what, I care. about what's your scoring average?

How many birdies do you have a tournament? How many cuts are you making? I think sometimes we over complicate some pretty basic things. And I truly just care about like, you know, is ultimately their, you know, defense in Dallas? Is it going to come back to Earth? Or are just they going to be kind of a feast or famine team?

Well, if they're a feast and famine team and their scoring defense is pretty good, then I got no issue with it. Adios. Have a great week. Peace. The volume. Hi, everybody. I'm Rachel Benetta, and I have my very own podcast called Benched with Bonetta. You kidding me? I'm just here so I won't get fine. Every week, I'm going to be talking about all the things I find fascinating about the NFL,

and I'm doing something that has never been done before. I'm opening my DMs. DEMs now open. Listen every Tuesday and join me on the bench. Subscribe now and listen to the Bench with Beneta podcast on the IHeart Radio app on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Mama, what does the chicken say? Dog. Cat.

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Visit nhthsa.com. Slash the right seat. Brought to you by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and the Ad Council. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

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