The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 3 and Out - Super Bowl Primer: Mahomes/Reid 2nd SB Significance, Eagles Roseman Reboot, Derek Carr Demand, Lamar/Ravens Divorce Vibes

Episode Date: February 6, 2023

John discusses what a second Super Bowl win would mean for Patrick Mahomes and Andy Reid’s place in NFL history, and why a 2nd title for Eagles GM Howie Roseman after his franchise reboot could place him among the all-time front office execs. He also looks at what teams should be interested in Derek Carr, if Lamar Jackson could be done with the Ravens as contract negotiations reportedly deteriorate, and why the NFL won’t kill the Pro Bowl despite social media complaining. Subscribe NOW and follow Middlekauff and The Volume on Twitter, Instagram and YouTube for the latest content. It's always FanDuel for the best wagering action! #volume #herdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The volume. The three-in-out podcast with me, John Middilcough, is presented by Fandul's Sportsbook. It's the NFL playoff time, and there's no better place to get into the action than Fandul.

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How are we doing? Super Bowl Week is here. Chiefs Eagles, baby. Let's rock and roll. Big week. A little podcast today. A little primer. Coward will join me tomorrow.

So we will have a long podcast on Tuesday. Me and Colin talking a lot of different stuff. And yeah, so Super Bowl's here. We got a volume party this week. Throw back a few pops. Enjoy the times. The Eagles and the Chiefs are here. I think the Chiefs are staying right down the street for me.

So it should be a fun week. A lot of content be flowing. And yeah, I'm sure there'll be a lot of other stuff breaking news throughout the league. coaching-wise, maybe some other player buzz. It's always a fun week for news, for sure. Middlecoff mailbag at John Middlecoff is the Instagram, fire in those DMs.

I put a mailbag out yesterday. So if you need some content, because this is a short podcast, I put like a 30-minute mailbag out on Sunday. Some thoughts of some of that Tony Romo controversy. I guess he got a slap on the wrist for not being a good employee. Some thoughts on that. And if you subscribe to this podcast,

I appreciate it. Make sure you subscribe with Three and Out Podcasts. If you listen through Collins Feed, thanks for everyone that supports the show, the volume. We appreciate you guys. And we like to keep the content flowing. That's why, like I said, Coward joins me for Tuesday's show.

Let's rock and roll. But first, I wanted to tell you about my friends at GameTime. Here's what I need to do. I need you to go to the app store in your phone, download the GameTime app. When you do that, type in the promo code, John. That's my name, J-O-H-N, and get $20 off tickets to any event.

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If you're a Chiefs fan, you're a Chiefs fan, you're a lover of football and you got a little extra cash. Recommend it's going to be a fun week here in the desert. Let's start with the Super Bowl. And just kind of a big picture topic of chasing greatness. Because the best part about sports, I say it's all the time. business. Like, they're kind of like arbitrary goals, right? When you make a certain amount of money, you just extend it the next quarter or the next year. It just kind of builds on each other. It's not like you either succeeded or you failed. You'd be like, well, based on the economic times

or the inflation, like we did pretty well. You can justify it any way you want. You know, I sold this many houses last year. The housing market crash and I sold this many this year or still a solid year. And you might be right. You know, in sports, it's very cut and dry. It's very black and white. You either win or you lose. And regardless of what sport you play, whether it's an individual sport like tennis or golf, or it's your professional racer, or you play baseball, basketball, or football, or the NHO, there is an end goal to win the championship. And the individual sports is the majors and the grand slams in racing. It's a specific. big events in team pro sports.

It's the finals, the World Series, the Super Bowl, and the Stanley Cup. That is the said goal for most of the good teams. That's what you aspire to do. Because once you do that, it changes your life forever. Obviously, professionally, you're viewed then as a champion. And we monetize that in America. You get paid more to be a champion. We introduce you that the rest of your life, depending on who you are.

you get paid based off that until you die. And both these teams are full of guys that have already won championships, right? Andy Reid, Patrick Mahomes, Travis Kelsey, Chris Jones, Howie Roseman, Lane Johnson, Travis Kelsey, or excuse me, Jason Kelsey, Travis, too, Fletcher Cox, champions on both sides. You start getting into rare air when you get multiple Super Bowls. And let's look at the Chiefs. Andy Reed and Patrick Mahomes. You know, I'm 38 years old.

And I've experienced over the, you know, basically the internet age, a lot of great quarterbacks not named Manning and Brady, right? And most of them have one Super Bowl. Aaron Rogers, who I think is like a top five player of all time in a vacuum, but he's only one in one championship. And he started kind of breaking it down. Like some of that his fault and people like, well, his defense, he's got one championship.

And more than likely, at 39 years old, going to the Raiders, maybe, he ain't going to win another one. Drew Brees, one championship. Russell Wilson, who's not good anymore, was sweet for a long time, one championship. Big Ben Rathusberger, right? He's got two,

but it feels like he's got one. Bizarre career, but he doesn't really get credit for the first one, but he's got a couple. And, you know, even guys like Joe Namath, Ken Stabler,

it's very, very difficult to win multiple championships. And it's very, very difficult to win multiple championships with the same coach. Look at Peyton Manning. Went to a ton of Super Bowls. He went to him,

I think with four different coaches. Tony Dungey, Jim Caldwell, John Fox, and Gary Kubiak. So to have sustained success with one coach and one quarterback, it puts you into just a special category. Obviously, the greatest combination of all time is Belichick and Brady. And then it's kind of Montana and Walsh. What's weird is the Niners have five Super Bowls. Montana has four, but Walsh quit after the third.

So Seaford actually won the fourth. so they actually don't have as many as probably most people just think they don't follow it or a little younger. But Andy Reid and Patrick Mahomes, they win the Super Bowl. They're approaching Walsh in Montana just based on the simple fact of,

I would say they both got, I mean, Patrick Mowens has a lot left, but Andy in his early to mid-60s, like he's got at least another five years and they're in the peak of their powers, their organizations really well run. Like, you can get into rare air. Now we have some random to,

I guess, Elway and Shanahan did it together, but it was at the end of Elway's career, right? It's not like they had 10 years together. Maybe they'd have three or four, right? Eli and Tom Coughlin have two, but they're both kind of outliers. It's not like they had sustained success over a 10-year period. Obviously, on those two individual years, they got really hot. Pretty sure one of the years they were 9 and 7.

Honestly, it might have been 9 and 7 both years. But with the Chiefs and like the Niners, they built the dynasty. And then the Patriots, they built a dynasty. And that's what the chiefs are now doing. And the two guys leading that dynasty are the head coach and the quarterback. And you win this Super Bowl this year. They will be the favorites next year. And we're just looking at greatness.

And I watch sports. I say it all the time. I don't watch sports like for the random players. I like watching the cream of the crop. And I want to watch Patrick Mahomes and Andy Reid. Chase just kind of football heaven because that's ultimately they got a chance to be in a rare air

and they win this one I really think you can get to that third mark you're starting to look at beside Brady and Belichick could they be right there with Walsh and Montana as the second greatest coach quarterback combination of all time? I don't think it's out of the realm possibilities

and then when you look at the Eagles you're like what defines the Eagles? It's not a coach or quarterback because these are second Super Bowl since 2017. The coach and the quarterback are different. Obviously, some of their core players, I mean, Kelsey's a Hall of Famer, Lane Johnson's a Hall of Famer. Fletcher Cox, probably not, but he's like an all-time great eagle. I mean, they have some of those core guys there that are all older.

Kelsey's still playing at a high level. Lane, when healthy, still an elite player. Fletcher no longer is. Brain and Graham no longer is. He's a backup. But, like, it's not really that group of guys, even though I would say Kelsey is a big part of it, so is Lane. but what I think of the Eagles, I think kind of their front office in Howie Roseman.

And think how difficult it is for a general manager to go to a Super Bowl with multiple head coaches. That's not normal. Most guys don't get the opportunity because most general managers don't have success with multiple head coaches. And definitely most gentlemen, I think of the greatest general manager,

probably non-coach of the last 30 years, is Bill Pollian. And Bill Paulian went to a son, ton of Super Bowls. He was the GM of those Bill's teams. He was obviously the GMs of the Colts teams. He won one Super Bowl. Now, he got to a bunch of different Super Bowls with many head coaches. Marvel

Evie, Tony Dungey, and Jim Caldwell, but he only won the one. And a couple years ago, when they fired Doug Peterson, it's not like the Eagles have eight Super Bowls when you walk into the building. That was their first ever Super Bowl. So they fired a guy that brought home a Lombardi, and that's a tough transition.

And they kind of overhauled the roster, especially with a new quarterback and it's worked. Like if the Eagles win the Super Bowl, what I'm saying about Andy and Patrick Mahomes having multiple Super Bowls and headed toward like, could they be number two behind Belichick and Brady one day, are we going to start talking about Howie Roseman is one of the great general managers of all time? Like two Super Bowls with two different coaches and two different quarterbacks, that would be

an incredible feat. It really would, especially like ultimately Doug backup quarterback. had kind of worked his way up. I would say to do it, Carson Wentz, number two overall pick, even though he got hurt, and then Nick Foles, who was a third round pick,

you know, they beat Brady and Belichick. Nick Siriani, like no one saw that one coming. It would be, I know they're favored, so it would be a little less crazy in theory than their win

over the Patriots, but close your eyes and say Nick Siriani, Super Bowl champ, that's pretty nuts. So the math, The matchup here from the big picture storylines of both these guys. And when I worked for the Eagles, Andy Reed and Howie Roseman were my bosses.

So obviously, I saw 22 years ago to the day, Andy Reed was hired with the Philadelphia Eagles. So it should be fun. It should be. I don't even know where I was going there. This year, the only app you need it at your Super Bowl party is Fandul, America's number one sports book. Okay, right now download Fandle. Use the promo code Colin, C-O-L-I-N. You can bet Super Bowl 57 with a no-swet first bet.

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It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever. you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits,

the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast,

The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, be heard but celebrated. One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't

always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the Follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. But I do know where I'm going here on Derek Carr. Because I think he's become one of the more polarizing quarterbacks in the league. A lot like Dak Prescott and Kirk Cousins. And here's a reality.

If you want to win the Super Bowl, and I think Derek Carr is going to end up getting traded, or excuse me, end up getting cut and not getting traded. I don't think it behooves Derek Carr to accept a trade. I would just get cut and then go choose my team. but if I'm Derek Carr or if I'm, you know, a team, a general manager thinking about acquiring Derek Carr and making them the quarterback my team. If my goal is to win the Super Bowl, that's not going to happen.

You're not going to win a Super Bowl with Derek Carr. But do you know what? Like, Dak Prescott and Kirk Cousins aren't going to win Super Bowls for their team. But you know what they do? Every single year, that team is in the mix in the playoffs, playing in big games, winning double digit games. Even a couple years ago, when Zimmer got fired, it wasn't cousin's fault. So being relevant as a football team and having the opportunity, like a real opportunity every single year to make the playoffs is worth a lot of money in this league.

And the majority of teams do not have Joe Burrow, Patrick Mahomes, Rogers, and Brady. So when you get the second third tier guy, if that guy is good enough, like, and Derrick Carr's proven, if you just have solid stuff going on around you, and for the most of his career, he has not had that. He has been part of dysfunction. If you can just put some stability around him, you can win 10, 11 games. and you can make the playoffs. And who knows? Maybe you win a playoff game. For 90% of the league, that's a successful season.

And I think when the dust settles, teams like the Colts, teams like there's rumors about the Saints, there's rumors about the Carolina Panthers, you could do a lot worse than Derek. Now, there is a price point, right? I would like to pay Derek about $27 million, not $38 million. So if you can figure out the financials, I'm not into overpaying average because you overpay average, that's where you get in trouble. And Derek's win right above average. But he's above average and the ceiling's capped. But the ceiling is high enough that if you have a solid defense, if you have weapons on offense, if your offensive coordinator knows what he's doing,

win 10 or 11 games. Everyone's happy. Most organizations extend people off winning 11 games. Ask the Arizona Cardinals. Made the playoffs once. Everyone got extended. Now, Chris Cliff Kingsbury is in Thailand and Steve Kime is who knows where, but they're all getting paid. I saw another story on the quarterback that Lamar Jackson and the Ravens, according to Jeremy Fowler, could be almost $100 million apart. And I've always supported Lamar Jackson. You know, I wasn't high on him coming out of the draft. And like most people, you couldn't deny how good he was.

And he clearly was a lot more accurate than anyone that was a hater. And I would say I was probably, I was reluctant coming. him as a college prospect because I didn't think a guy was very average. I remember watching him in a bull game against Mississippi State throwing the ball into the ground. I'm like, you can't play like that. And he worked on it and he improved. But when I read these $100 million apart, like, part of doing a deal and anyone listening to this knows, like, if there's a home right now on the market for $2 million and you come in with an offer of $700,000, you're not going to get a deal done. you got no shot.

Right? If I'm making $95,000 working for someone and it's like, I want a race, and they're like, okay, come into the office tomorrow and tell me what you think you're worth. And if I go from $95,000 and I look at them and go, I think I'm worth $775,000, it's not going to happen. But if I come in, who knows? Maybe say $130. Maybe we can end up meeting at $1.20. just like if the house is on sale for $2 million, if I come in with an offer, housing markets,

kind of in shambles, it's definitely slowing down, rates are up at 1.65, who knows? Maybe that seller is desperate to get out. Maybe we can meet in the middle, and maybe I can end up getting it for 1.76. But when you are so far away in business, like, this is pretty clear where this thing's destined to go. Not going to work out. It ain't happening. listen, I said last year, Lamar Jackson should have signed the contract. Just because one outlier deal happened in Deshaun Watson and Cleveland Browns does not mean that anyone else is going to do that. There's always one idiot and they were the idiots.

And that deal is an embarrassment to the entire league when you factor in all the different variables. And no one's going to follow it because Deshaun Watson, not even in trouble is not worth that much money. And we saw this year, you better keep your fingers crossed. that he can get back to like 80% of he once was because he looked terrible. I understand Lamar Jackson thinking he's worth more because do you know what's never happened in these negotiations?

The team has offered more money than the player thought he was worth. I'll take it, right? It's always the team's going to low ball you, players going to come or his representative is going to come in higher. When you're a hundred million dollars apart, someone's living in La La Land. Because I don't care even if you hit the open market. If Lamar Jackson hit the open market, I don't think there's a team that pays him a deal that sniffs that Cleveland Brown deal.

That sniffs it. And Lamar Jackson has proven to be an MVP caliber player. Deshaun Watson is not. He's proven to be a fantastic human being, never gets in any trouble. Now, some of the durability things have started to creep in, right? He's been hurt a couple times. But I think Lamar Jackson needs, and listen, I'm not pro-agent necessarily. Never had one.

Had one actually ended up. losing money in the deal, whatever. It's completely different industry, a lot less money. But I'm all for representing yourself if you can come to the conclusion of getting a deal done. Because that's the most important thing in any transaction. How do we get a deal done? And when you're $100 million apart, well, what does that mean? Does that mean all these other teams that need quarterbacks are just going to bridge that gap? To me, even other teams that would want Lamar Jackson, maybe they'd still be $50 million apart. I think someone needs to get with this guy, and we just got to get some realistic expectations, right?

There has to be some realistic expectations from the Lamar Jackson side, because, and I'm not trying to, like, you know, defend the Ravens here. But, like, that to me is more of a reflection of Lamar Jackson than it is the Baltimore Ravens for an office, who historically has done deals with a lot of players over the years, right? They've also let a lot of guys walk. So you know where I've stood. I think he ends up getting traded. But I also think it becomes a lot more complicated to trade a guy who wants a $250 million contract, $230 million contract, purely guaranteed, just like Deshaun Watson. I don't think the other 31 teams in the league, I guess you could take out the Ravens

and the Browns, are just like itching to do that, right? Especially even the desperate ones. Maybe they'd give you 175 guaranteed or maybe even 200, but if he thinks 230 is the number, we're still $30 million apart. That's a long way. Free agency is not that far away. You know what ends up happening? Player X and Team X goes,

I think I'm worth $4 million. The team thinks I'm worth $2.5. Or I think I'm worth $10 million. My team thinks I'm worth seven. That's a gap, right? And if you factor it over three or four years, we're $10 million apart. We're $1.5 million apart on the average per year.

Like those are gaps that are bridgeable, right? If I think my house is worth a million, you think it's worth $8.75, maybe I can buy back an interest point. Maybe, you know, I can redo the kitchen for you. But we can figure out something. When we're $100 million apart, that's a deal that's never happening. And last but not least, I'm not going to bitch and moan about the Pro Bowl. I didn't watch it. But to think that the NFL, like, they have to have an event this week that they can tell us. advise. It's part of the television package. Do I think it's really stupid, the Pro Bowl in general? Of course it is. It's also impossible. Like in baseball, you can just play a game at normal speed.

No one worries about getting hurt. You've seen what the NBA All-Star game has become. A lot like the regular season. Pretty terrible. An awful product. In football, you can't play football half-ass. You can't even do it 80%. And I just flipped the channel because I wanted to watch two snaps. It's hard to play flag football at 50%, especially when these guys, their knees and body parts are worth so much. So it was a bad product.

Of course it is. But they need something to put on television because clearly ABC had the game today. It's part of the package that nets them so much money. And there is nothing going on this week, right? I saw that when the Pro Bowl ended, there was an NBA game on. I got news for you.

No one's watching. I don't know what the ratings will be for this flag football game. It'll be higher than every regular season baseball game and probably NBA game of the year. And honestly, it might not even be that close. So this game is simply for inventory. They need inventory. And this week, they need something. I don't think there's an easy thing to do.

You just get all the quarterbacks and see you can throw the farthest. They did stuff like that. They did dodge ball. They had some different events. It's going to be cheesy. And if you hate it, I got news for you. It's not for you. Just like, it's not for me.

But it's for somebody. And it's for somebody that when you add all those somebody's up, equal numbers that the other leagues would die for. So it's simply a business, you know, keep an inventory rolling so they can keep the cash rolling. Is it a cash grab? Yes. They're in the business of making money. And I think we're always going to have people complain about it.

but there's nothing you can do. You want something to complain about? I saw a trailer for the movie White Man Can't Jump, the new modern day version, I was embarrassed. Jack Harlow, who I actually kind of like, who's not bad.

Sometimes I put them on my Pandora station when I'm at the gym. You can't remake that movie, especially with the two guys they remade it with. Like, that's embarrassing. Like, ultimately, White Man Can't Jump was, one,

it was just a classic. And two, it was made with two great actors. do legends in the business. You can't just pull some white wrapper and some other random guy I've never seen before and expect to have some success because I'm offended.

Honestly, I'm offended by nothing. I'm not one of those people that always pretends to be offended because I had some of the energy. I got too much going on in life. I don't have the energy to put negative thoughts always in my head. I was offended when I saw that. Someone actually thought this would be a good idea. Super Bowl content, you know, going to be flowing this week.

Coward will be on the show on Tuesday. Let's rock and roll, baby. The volume. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel,

help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put it. on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed human.