The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 3 and Out - Titans fire Mike Vrabel, What's going on in NE, Will Harbaugh be back in the NFL

Episode Date: January 10, 2024

John reacts to the breaking news of the day that the Titans fired Mike Vrabel. He dives into why he thinks Vrabel should be the top coaching candidate for every team with a head coaching vacancy, why Vrabel should not go back to New England if they end up parting ways with Belichick, and will Jim Harbaugh be in the NFL next year? Later, John answers your questions on this episode's mailbag segment. 6:08 - Mike Vrabel out in Tennessee 35:00 - Mailbag 35:20 - Should Seattle find a new coach 36:52 - Should the Jets reset again 41:10 - How can Atlanta be good again 46:10 - Is Trevor Lawrence actually all-in 49:10 - Why does Bryce Young get so much hate Follow John on Twitter, Instagram and YouTube for the latest. Check out Gametime - the fastest growing ticketing app in the US, and the official ticketing app of 3 & Out and GoLow -  for tickets to all of your favorite NFL, NBA, NHL, NCAA teams. Concert and comedy show tickets, too. Go to Gametime now to create an account, download the app and use code JOHN for $20 off your first purchase. #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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terms, and responsible gaming resources. What is going on, everybody, John Middilcock, 3 and our podcast. How are we doing? Here's the drill. We're going to react to Mike Vrable. Mike Vrable was relieved of his duties today, fired, what that means for the NFL, why that situation took place, where he's going to go now, how the dominoes of all these coaches, how the league has changed in terms of financially to allow this stuff to happen, left and right. So I'd say, curveball would be strong because we have been talking a lot about Vrabel and the Titans breaking up. I don't think many people expected it to be fired, though.

So that was pretty eye-opening move for sure. And we're also going to do a big mailbag. A big mailbag at John Middilkoff is the mailbag. And as someone asked me the other day on the mailbag, what was that great quote? The former Navy SEAL gave you. And it was simple. We don't rise to the level of our expectations.

We fall to the level of our preparation. If you hired your boy to be a head coach, if Arthur Blank called me and said, John, I want you to be the head coach of the Atlanta Falcons, I would read that quote in my opening press conference. I might even open the press conference with that quote. It's a good one. So I saved it.

Hopefully you guys can save it. We don't rise to the level of our expectations. We fall to the level of our preparation. I think it actually kind of sums up football. It really does. Teams with high standards, teams with high preparation, teams that are detail-oriented, it shows. In teams that just talk a lot, don't actually put in the work, kind of fall apart.

Here's the drill. We'll just keep doing podcasts all week long. I think Stucky, who missed last week, he was sick and fell asleep. He will be back tomorrow. We will just go over the NFL slate. That's the plan. We'll go over the entire NFL slate. Your boy didn't win his bet because Washington got housed.

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You know, this is a crazy time of year in football because there are always the guys that people knew Ron Rivera was getting fired from the beginning of the season. Right? It was clear Arthur Smith

was in major trouble a month ago. Brandon Staley was a dead man walking once they blew that playoff lead a year ago. Some guys, you know, you knew Belichick. Like, things are kind of getting weird. Right. Vrable was a guy who, one, a lot of people would want as their head coach. And two, it's just been successful. So usually you get a younger, successful guy.

You went through a bumpy time. You changed general managers. You'd be like, oh, you'd never even think about it. And then as these stories started coming out, you start putting the pieces together. Now, well before any of you listened to this podcast, probably, I had John Robinson on the podcast. I've known him for 15 years. He's the former GM, and Vrable was a coach. I went to a practice.

I went to Tennessee or Nashville for a bachelor party, and I'm like, screw it. Instead of going on Friday, I'll go out on Tuesday. OTAs, I'll play golf, I'll go to a practice, and I'll have Robinson on. It was when LaFleur was the offensive coordinator, Derek Henry. Marriota was the quarterback at the time. And I just thought, like, this is an impressive operation. I think it was Vrable's first year. Might have been 2018.

I remember thinking, like, they're going to be okay. They got themselves a star. Now, obviously, depending on how old you are, you follow Vrable's career as a player. But one thing, and this always happened with Jim Harbaugh, they suck up all the alpha oxygen in the room. When Jim Harbaugh walks in, when Mike Vrable walks in, there's only one

guy that everyone looks at and it can be intimidating it can be hard and as they have success they got big egos and they can be hard to deal with I don't know if Ravel personally I'm a fan from the outside

and I think a lot of times when you put yourself in the position like if you're just an employee you have gripes with management right some things with management piss you off Hell, maybe you would even hate working where you work, but you need the money, you can't leave, you're afraid to leave, and you kind of keep your mouth shut. But it's something you think about all the time, and it really pisses you off.

I've been there. And then maybe you get to the point where you're not afraid to leave. And you start almost doing things to get fired or unwillingness to play politics, right? And you're just going to say what you believe. And if it piss people off, whatever. And it can be very liberating. It actually makes you feel pretty good inside. You're like, fuck this guy.

I'm not, this is so moronic. And sometimes when you get fired in that situation, because you want to get paid out, right? Most of us, not at Vrabel's number, I'm sure. But just even just pay to severance, like I do not want to be here anymore, but under no circumstances, am I residing, right? You're going to pay me to go away.

I'll be a little malcontent, but we're going to have problems. And then there is the level of when you're management and you view equal with the other management. and you do not care at all. And that's what it feels like with Mike Vrable. That he has core beliefs. He has things that he believes in,

and he sees a disconnected organization. I don't know the details beside what's been reported. But clearly, and I knew Rand Carthin a little bit, I've DMed with him over the years. He used to be on the Niners staff. Now he's the GM. Clearly, I don't think he's on board.

Like, those two guys aren't seeing I die. It doesn't feel like Mike Vrable was the guy that hired him. Amy Adams, the owner did. But Adams' daughter. and clearly he had some wants and desires that Amy Adams proved like, yeah, I don't care enough to keep you around. And I would imagine, as I record this, a couple hours after the news broke,

that Mike Vrable is glad that he got fired. Mike Vrable did not want to be there anymore. Not because he didn't like Nashville, not because he didn't like being the head coach of the Titans, because he didn't think it was sustainable the way their operation was set up. And clearly the owner, which is always their prerogative, like, it's not worth our time.

Because listen, if you put yourself on the other side of the shoe, this happens a lot. Anyone listening to this that runs a small business that is in a management position, there are some employees that you're just going to deal with their shit and figure it out. If you have bumps in the road, they produce enough. The ROI is the juice is worth to squeeze, right? Happens in sports all the time. Productive players that are pain in the ass. The moment they stop scoring points, hitting home runs, scoring touchdowns, you cut them.

You trade them. You get rid of them. But as long as they're doing it, sometimes you have to suck it up and deal with it. It's no different in any industry. Whether it's a head coach with a big ego that doesn't listen to anybody, well, if that guy's winning, you just kind of deal with it. The moment that guy starts going under 500, it's like, fuck this. I'm not dealing with this crap.

Right. But when you win in sports, you got leverage. When you produce in sports, you got leverage. When you're in the private sector and you generate money, you got leverage. People need you. Right? The moment you start going the other way, it's easy to just. testify it's not worth the problem.

Now, I think it's crazy. I think Mike Vrable is basically the older version of D'Amico Ryan. Was born to do this. Is elite at this job. He just happened to be good at playing football, so it delayed his ability to become a coach. But from the moment he became a coach, I know people that were around him are like,

this guy is special. And you see the way, obviously, the Busset with the boy guys, Luan and Will Compton have a podcast played for him, the way they talk about. But over the years, they have had all these Tennessee Titans that talk about him as well. This is not some flash in the pan. He had some good seasons, but everyone hated him.

This is not some guy that's viewed at. The irony is he's like, well, he's a Belichick guy. Well, yeah, as a player, he never coached for Bill Belichick. He actually started coaching for Urban Meyer. And then he went to coach for Bill O'Brien. He's not a Belichick guy beside as putting it on the pads in a helmet. So I think sometimes, you know, that's a narrative that kind of just take shape that's not even true. Vrable's his own guy.

And to me, Vrable was born to coach in the National Football League, and he's good at it. And I think the Titans made a major mistake. The chances that they are going to get a coach as good as Mike Vrable, I would say would be slim to none. It's almost like the chances that the Packers were going to hit on another quarterback. The chances that Jordan loved, which he looks pretty good, the likelihood of that is like, to me, winning the lottery. Look how many other teams have been looking for quarterbacks for decades. And they hit on three straight. But the likelihood of any team ever firing a coach and then hiring another good one is not very high.

And Mike Vrable, to me, is easily the best coach the Titans have had in a long, long time. So I think it's a mistake in the sense of thinking that you're bigger than Mike Vrable, because you're not. I'll short the Titans. And listen, I don't know him personally besides interacting with a little bit. I think it's very difficult. Like as a GM, even if Rand Carthin is good and the jury is out, hire your coach, you're only as good as your coach, right? The reason Casario and Scott Piole and Brett Veach and John Schneider over the years,

and now John Lynch and Les Sneed, I mean, we can go through all the good coaches. They also have good GMs, right? Ozzie forever and now DeCosta, like, if you got a good coach, you're going to look smart. If you don't have a good coach, I don't give a shit if you're the best personnel man alive. I don't care if you're Bill Paulian meets Bill Walsh with a little Bill Parcell sprinkled on you

as a talent evaluate. You got no chance on God's Green Earth of having any success. And I would imagine this Titans thing, words going to get out, things are going to be weird. Now it is an incredible place to live. Like, one thing Arthur Blank's going to have going for him, people like living in Atlanta. People

love Nashville. No state income tax. Cool city. Incredible suburbs. Easygoing place. Good food. The whole deal. You make a lot of money. fucking great. But I do, like, I already got it red flagged a little bit. Like, is this a place that people are going to be lined up? Now, let's face it. A lot of these organizations make people a little uncomfortable. It's like, wait, how many Spanos's are in the hierarchy chart? Wait, Mark Davis. How many coaches have you had to fire since you've taken over the

organization? Wait, Josh Harris, you're a basketball guy? Right? Arthur Blank, like, see, you actually seem pretty well, you know, a loyal guy, but how come this place always kind of weird? Right. So, listen, you could, there's only 32 of the jobs. And there aren't many, like, besides some athletes and musicians, there aren't many human and some CEOs of major companies that make $10 to $15 million of W2 employees. There is a short, short list. You know, we talk a lot about like the list of one percenters and the list of billionaires and 100 millionaires. Do you know the list of people that make the amount of money in pro sports? They're all W2 employees. Like most of these, like the one percenters, the over

the majority of one percenters, like own businesses, like get a net profit. You know, they aren't like working for someone making these amounts of money. So there are going to be people that want these gigs. But look at the list of people. And listen, I'm not going to dive in as of a couple days after Black Monday to every guy that's getting permission. But it's a lot of the same names. And then it's the new names of like Bobby Sloick.

Bobby Sloick, because the Texans had some success. Well, like three years ago, Bobby Sloak was just like cutting up. film for all the Niner coaches. Hell, like five years ago, he's working a PFF. And I'm not trying to diminish the guy. I googled him the other day. I didn't quite realize his dad was a long time NFL coach. He knows what he's doing. But like the moment you just have any success, oh, let's just interview the guy. Like, that just seems like no different than like one guy makes a couple plays in a bowl game. Like, let's draft that guy. It's pretty risky and it's shown over the years that it's very hit or miss. That's strategy. Right? Here's what I know.

If you hire Bill Belichick, he knows what he's doing. If you hire Mike Vrable, he knows what he's doing. I'm not talking at like coaching defense or coaching offense. I'm talking about being the fucking boss at the top of the table and everyone answers to him. Why do we say quarterback is so difficult? Because all 10 guys, every single game, are looking at you in the huddle. And the other six days of the week, everyone is looking at you when you're walking around the building. What's he doing?

How's he being treated? How's he being coach? How hard is he working? It's no different at the head coach. That quarterback, with everyone else looking at him, are all looking at that guy. It's why it's so difficult. It's why it's so easy to be the number two.

A lot of guys are good at being number two in the NFL or college football because there's way less pressure. Listen, I'm not acting like it's an easy gig. It's very difficult. I was lucky enough to work for two guys. And I remember thinking like, God, how do they do this?

It was Pat Hill and Andy Reed, and they were so natural at it. It's why my short time around Chip Kelly, I remember thinking it was a little weird. I really did. And people think I hate the guy. I don't necessarily care for him. But I just remember thinking, like, I don't know. I don't quite see it.

And listen, there was like an alpha element to Coach Hill and Andy that I think Chip lacked. So maybe that threw me off. And it's why I gravitate toward those guys. It's why I like Jim Harbaugh. It's why I like Mike Vrable. But here's the other thing. Mike Vrable, and this is why if Bill ever becomes available, I don't know when him and Robert Kraft are finally going to

talk, I would say, I would always lean offense. Like, I do agree with Colin there. But I'm cool with going defense if they got their right-hand man. Right. Like, a band isn't the same if they lose their star drummer, right? Or their star guitarist. It's hard to replace those guys. Obviously, a lead singer is the most important person.

But, like, a lot of bands hinge, like, if you lose one of the four guys, like, it could be a problem. It's hard to replace. And Bill Belichick, has not been the same without Josh McDaniels. Just like Mike Vrable isn't the same without Arthur Smith. Well, here's the thing I like about hiring Mike Vrable is like, well, I want you to hire Arthur Smith, one. And two, I get worried.

Look at CJ Stroud and Bobby Sloak. Let's go back to that example. They have one decent year. I mean, he had a historic year for a rookie, but it's not like, I mean, can you see you do it another year? And he's already interviewing left and right for jobs. I mean, Domingo's going to lose that guy. Hell, he might lose him this year. definitely going to lose them next year if CJ has another good year.

Where Arthur Smith, I think Herbert, let's just say the Chargers hired Mike Vrable, you bring in Arthur Smith to work with Herbert. Arthur Smith's not getting hired for years. We just saw it, and it was really ugly, right? It's going to take him some time. So I would feel very, same with Josh McDaniels, not a soul is hiring that guy. And I know that guy is a good coordinator. So to me, part of the Mike Vrable package is, one, I know he can lead the squad.

one, I know he's comfortable in that position, born alpha. And two, his weakness is going to be the offensive side of the ball. He's got his best coordinator available right now. So I think people are going to be lined up. I think he should be thrilled. Now, ultimately, one conversation that is not going to die until the Belichick thing is figured out is should Vrable go back to New England. I would recommend against that.

I really would. And the thing I appreciate about Vrable is he kind of carved his own path. You know, and listen, money talk, shit walks. If they offered them a ton of money, I wouldn't fault the man for going. But to me, I think it'd be pretty easy to carve your own path on this one. I think all these other jobs,

even if Harbaugh is their number one target, well, there's only one Jim Harbaugh, so four or five of these openings are not going to get them. I'm not even counting the Carolina Panthers. But Washington, Atlanta, the Raiders, the Chargers, I mean, all these teams are going to want Mike Brable. So I would personally avoid Robert Kraft. Now, you could argue there's a comfortability.

You know the owner. Are we sure Robert Crafts ever win in post Belichick and Brady? Because I'm not. I mean, like New England had a good run and it could be over. Now, is he willing to pay Vrable to bring him back? Maybe. But if I'm Vrable, it's crazy to sounds like I don't touch that job with a 10-foot pole because you never want to be the guy that follows the guy.

Listen, I don't want to be the guy that follows Nick Sainment in Alabama. because you're more likely to get run out in three years than you are to start rattling off national championships. Because you could have success and it won't be good enough. It just won't be. And it's no different with Nick Saban or sought with Urban Meyer. It's very, very hard because the expectations are unfairly outrageous. Because that guy is so elite, like you follow Tom Brady, it's hard.

And look at New England's quarterbacks. But even if they would have had just a solid guy, it wouldn't have been good. enough. You know, it's like whenever Steph Curry leaves the Warriors, good luck. Good luck being the next quote unquote star on the team. More than likely, everyone's going to think you suck, even if you're solid. Just the reality of the situation. So, you know, it's a crazy league. And the one thing that's really happened economically to the sport is the influx of money. You know, the influx of this television deal is the problem with the other sports. So I think a lot of these NBA owners, the Bucks owner sold, one of the dudes with the Warriors

a minority stakeholder, Shemas sold, and he spoke about it, like he's shorting the profession. You know, Mark Cuban sold. It's because there's no guarantee that the money flow is going to continue because this television deal is in flux. Who's paying a premium for the NBA? How are they going to get as much money this time around as they did last time around? Obviously, baseball has structural issues just in terms of, you know, people watching their games. Golf's going through it right now. There's a hostile takeover with the Saudis because financially they can't keep up. with what they can offer. The NFL is not just unfaced financially.

It's just, it's hard to even put into words how much money these guys are making. And they don't even have to try. You could have five straight years, not one win. You literally could go 0 and 17 for five straight years and you would make the same money

as the Cowboys, as the 49ers, as Mahomes, as all their teams that are playing in big games, that are printing money. You would get the same check from the league. Now, obviously, local revenue you'd make less. But, like, that money, and me and Colin talk about this, your biggest expense in the National Football League is your players, right?

Which, you know, let's just pick an even number to talk about it. $200 million. Well, if I get $400 million, and my salary cap is $200 million, which most teams, you know, relative maximize. So I got $200 million. I still got $200 million to pay the rest of my stuff. well, what else am I paying? My coaches, so let's say my coaching staff as a whole

with trainers and everyone else is $25 million. Right? My head coach makes 11, all my other coordinators, all my assistants, all my trainers. I'll even throw in team president. Like, my scouts don't make that much money. My salespeople make no, like, what are all my other expenses? And then you start factoring in, well, if I'm just in a relatively decent city,

the amount of people, if I have any piece of where we play, I profit from Taylor Swift and the Rolling Stones and Metallic and everything. The amount of money that's flowing in, I saw on Instagram, a picture of Jerry Jones Yacht. Like, all these guys, like Jerry and some of these people that have been in a league a while, I've seen it with Jed York. He built that stadium. Like, the York didn't have that much money relative to super rich guys.

Now they're super rich. Like private jet, unlimited money. They don't even think about cash. Money just flows. So you can fire these coaches really easily. The moment they start bothering you, it has nothing to do with the contract. Whether I owe them five more years at, you know, $75 million total, Mark Davis, who is literally one of the most cash poor owners in the NFL,

fired Josh McDaniels and Dave Ziegler and Rapsheed and Schefter said, yeah, it's between $60 and $70 million that he owes total between the two of them. Obviously, Josh, the head coach is the majority of that. But like, that's the poorest owner. Poorest. I just think the league has dramatically changed. The timetables have ramped up. We've seen it with quarterbacks.

Right? Like, Trey Lance, by his third season, by his third season. They just traded multiple ones. They drafted the guy. He had been banged up a little bit. He had played four games. And they're like, yeah, this guy fucking sucks. See ya.

Traded him. Zach Wilson was benched in year two. The timelines of this stuff, to me, has amplified. Not only of these guys are, like, getting in trouble off the field, no drugs, no arrest. This is just poor play, whatever, big contract, see you later, adios, next guy in. And to me, it's a healthy part of the NFL. It makes an interesting part of the NFL, but it also makes a crazy part of the NFL. Because for every Josh McDaniels or Arthur Smith, it was like, this is not going to work.

You can have these situations with Mike Vrable. And sometimes I also think, listen, I'm not just going to do it. offend Vrable the entire time, because I saw it with Jim Harbaugh early on with the diners. I think sometimes it's okay to be humbled a little bit, even if you're right, 98% of the time, which I'm going to give Vrable the benefit of the doubt. I would take Vrable over anyone else in that organization. But like, I bet there are some things he's just being difficult to be difficult, because Jim Harbaugh was like that a lot, right? And then these stories that became like stuff of legend, like, did he tell the owner to leave the room? Like, there was a

famous story that, you know, was kind of debunked, but it was like everyone just talked about it like it was real. The Jim Harbaugh with the Niners held a meeting with the team and like the scouts and everything. And Jed York was in it. And he told him to leave the room because it was like grown men only or something. And again, it's 99.9% it's not true, but it was kind of believable. You're like, yeah, he's crazy enough to say it. And I think sometimes these guys get a false sense. Like ultimately, if you are a coach, Here's just a reality. You are an employee.

You're a highly played and valuable individual, but you don't own anything. You're not a partner in this venture. This is not some podcast network where you own some revenue, and they're helping you out here or sell it. Like, that ain't the way this fucking thing's working. I'm just paying you $14 million a year to coach my team.

And if I don't like something, whether you think I inherited my wealth, whether you think I'm some baby, whether you think I'm just some rich kid who's 60 years old, I'm still the boss. And that's just a reality of the situation. And I think sometimes you see around the league,

people just drop that hammer. Like, fuck you, get out of here. And that's what it felt like a little today. Now, like I said, I'll stand by this. I would bet on Vrable. To me, when Kraft, like, ultimately there comes a time. I don't think this thing had run its course in terms of Mike Vrable still

in the peak of his powers, he's young. I would try to rebuild with that guy. You know, I understand the craft Belichick thing. It's like, yeah, you know, cremudgeon, angry guy, he's in the 70s, we've been losing. It's just time to start anew, right?

Just time to start anew. And listen, the chances that they eat Giraud Mayo, what are the chances Gerard Mayo's good? You just look at the history of the league, most coaches are averaged to blow. So you would just, it's why I bet against Jordan Love. Turns out I was wrong, but I just bet on the odds.

Like, you're telling me, you're going to go, Farv, Rogers, Love? Might as well just walk into the local 7-Eleven, get some scratchers and think you're going to hit some million-dollar thing. Good luck. They did it. You know, they did it.

But most time, you go, like, okay, I'm going to fire Jim Harbaugh. I'm tired of it. Then you go Jim Tom Sula. Then you go Chip Kelly. And everyone just wants to burn the franchise down as a fan because it's so embarrassing. That's usually, you know, you go through the Giants. They get rid of Tom Cothlin. Need to start a new.

Well, what happened? You went Pat Schumer, Macadoo, Joe Judge. Like, that's the NFL. Right? It just is. Even Andy Reid. Never won a Super Bowl there. But who's the better coach? Andy Reid or Chip Kelly, Doug Peterson, and Siriani. Obviously, Doug won a Super Bowl.

I like Doug. Nick Siriani got to a Super Bowl. I think you combine those two. Literally, if you could morph two guys together, would you either have the morph Doug Seriani or Andy Reed? You know, like, I'd take Andy Reid's right arm over those two guys. Now, in fairness, Doug, I view Doug. Doug at a higher level than Siriani. So that feels like I'm taking a shot at Doug.

I respect Doug. I don't know quite where I stand on Siriani. But my point is just that it's very, very difficult. Right. I mean, there's a chance if the Eagles lose to Tampa, which I have a hard time seeing, but the way they're playing, I mean, maybe Michigan could beat him. I mean, you can't play any worse than the Eagles are playing,

especially on defense. So what if he loses? He's just a lock, like, hey, listen, all-time legendary collapse. We'll just give you another shot. because listen, we feel good about you're a play caller. Oh, wait, you can't call the plays. Oh, wait, well, we just lost because no one was on the same page.

Well, aren't you supposed to be a motivator? So this is just a crazy time of year. It really is. And Schefter said it a couple weeks ago. This time of year, which is weird because you're talking about people losing their job, is as big as the draft. It's as big as free agency. It just is.

And to me, it's as if not more interesting than all that. Because none of that shit matters. until I know who's running your team. Until I know who your head coach is. Until I know the head coach GM combination. I can't even, like the Titans, what should they do? Well, who's running the operation? Right.

The Patriots, what should, I can't even begin to talk about the draft, the quarterback, who you're going to, if Jim Harbaugh is drafting it to? I'd say, shit. I mean, I would expect them to take Drake May. It feels like up his alley. if you tell me Vrable and Arthur Smith are in Washington,

I'd be like, I can see maybe Jaden Daniels. They kind of like an athletic quarterback. Right? I could see that. Obviously, they play with Tanny Hill. Vrable was, I don't know if he was on board, but Malik Willis. Maybe he didn't like that guy. I don't know.

But it just, the best part about this time of year is the sequencing to everything. Like, well, who are all these coaches, right, as the playoffs are going on? So the most important games are going on, and then kind of the draft order is getting sorted out by who's running the organization. And then it leads right into the Combine Free Agency, and we're off and running. But this next month really helps mold the NFL

for the next three or four years. Because a couple guys are going to hit, right? Jim Harbaugh goes somewhere, he's proven he'll win. Mike Vrable goes somewhere, assuming he brings Arthur Smith, I'd bet on them winning. So wherever those franchises are, If it's the Chargers, if it's Washington,

if it's, I guess it wouldn't be Atlanta probably, if you assume Vrable and Arthur Smith are going to go together. The Raiders, you're like, well, maybe that team's good the next couple years. Right? The Raiders for 20 years have been shitty. The Chargers have one good year, and then they suck for several. That's kind of their ammo. But if I give them Mike Vrable and Arthur Smith,

I'd be like, Chargers are going to be a problem. Chargers are going to be a problem. They got a chance to be the number two team in that division then moving forward. You'd feel pretty good about that. Not dead last, like they are. right now. I guess that's just a long-winded way of just saying crazy time of year, man. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's

superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim?

Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jek. And I'm Alex English. We pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack.

So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history.

Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, let's dive into a little thing we call the Middlecough mailbag. Very, very easy to get involved. There's a little thing called Instagram. I would imagine many of you have it on your smartphones. You go to Instagram and you go to my DMs, just my name, at John Middlecough, firing those DMs, get your questions answered here on the podcast. Very easy to do.

We're going to start with Luke. Question for the pod. Seattle fan here. I think it's inevitable that the DC needs to go. Too much talent to be as terrible as we were. But how do you go about the draft, trade up, and pick a quarterback like Pennix? Not sure if Pete can make that move. It seems like he's emotionally attached to Gino.

I think the right move, and I think I mentioned this on yesterday's podcast, is to kind of go your separate ways with Pete. It's not because Pete stinks, right? It's not, I don't look at them like Arthur Smith or Brandon Staley. It just feels like it's run its course. And, you know, I think the same thing with Tom. I think sometimes things just run their course. Now Pete at 72 years old is different than Tom.

I don't even know how old Tomlin is 50, 55, right? Obviously, Tom has more of a runway. but if I was Seattle, I'd pivot. I'd get a new coach. There are really good coaches available. I would be really interested in a lot of them. Jim wouldn't take that job, but, you know, Vrable and Arthur Smith,

I would be all over. Ben Johnson, I would be all over. You don't think Ben Johnson would be interested? Like, oh, who's on your team? Kenneth Walker, we got some good young tackles, D.K. Metcalfe, and Jackson Smith and Jigva, you want to come score some points here? I think I'd be interested.

So I would get rid of Pete. Because the notion of like, got to get rid of our defensive coordinator, it's fucking Pete's defense. I mean, Pete's like some defensive mastermind for 40 years. I love when Pete fires defensive coordinators. Like, what? Appreciate your blunt honesty. Here's a mailbag question for you.

I'm a Jets fan. I feel like Douglas and Sala should both be fired. But since this franchise has been such a train wreck, another restart symbolizes more dysfunction. Agreed. You got to try one last year with them hoping Roger stays healthy. Yeah, they don't have a choice. they don't have a choice.

But just to stick with something because it like, think about the guy that gets divorced a second time. Should he not get divorced time too? Because like I don't want it to, it's going to look like I just can't figure this out. But this is not working out. Like, we are not compatible. This is not, I can't stand being in this relationship. Or she thinks that.

Like, just because you've been divorced one time doesn't mean you can't get divorced another time if it doesn't work right now. You can be like, well, people are going to judge it. So be it. They were stuck, though. They were stuck because of the Rogers situation. I don't think it had anything to do with dysfunction. I think it was simply because making that Rogers move bailed them out.

Because I don't think they did a good job. I saw Jay Glazer put Jeff Ulbrick, and I've been following Jeff Oldbrick's career since the 90s when he was on the 49ers, as a head coaching candidate. It's like, the Jets defense, no defense. And Mike Lombardi has been on this. a while. No defense gets anointed, and then you watch on given weeks, you're like, are they good? Like, what is going on? Like the Patriots. And I'm not, you can maybe

nitpick me statistically. The Patriots defense consistently plays better than what I watch other jets. The Dolphins worked them without Tyreek Hill. They almost blew the following week to the commanders who are fucking terrible. So I, I, I want to like Sala. People think I have this weird thing with the beard dying, the beard dying. I truly believe it. Now, if his wife wants him to die his beard, no issue with it. But if that's his deal, I think, like, bro, you're in the NFL, you're not recruiting. Like, ultimately, Ryan Day dies his beard.

No big deal. Like, he's recruiting, image matters. Sabin, Coach Kay, dye their hair. I get it. I don't have hair. But I understand dye in your hair. If it matters. Right.

Like, if you're losing and you're worried about, like, how you look, like, bro, all you need to figure out is how to scy hair. score fucking multiple touchdowns in the game. You need to figure that out. Maybe he just knew he had a lifeline because Rogers was hurt. I feel that organization's out of whack. I picked them to win the division this year, which clearly ended four plays into the season.

I'll promise you this. Unless they add Trent Williams, Lane Johnson, and like Jason Kelsey this offseason, they keep hack it. Absolutely no chance I picked them to make the playoffs. They will be my pick to be an utter disaster next year. And a disaster for them is like six, seven wins again and just be like, it implodes, everyone fired. Rogers retires.

You notice, listen, the Rogers thing on TV, it's like the media, you guys just reiterate the same shit over and over. Get out of your little bubble, talk to some other people. They haven't let go the immunization shit. They are obsessed with Rogers with that. It's crazy. It's like, guys, I don't think you know how people are talking outside of your little bubble in 2020. And I'm not even talking about vaccines. I'm just talking about, they're just holding on to COVID.

The mask, the lockdowns, they loved them all. It's kind of weird. But it's why they despise Rogers. To me, I don't give a shit about any of that. I never cared about it. Do you, all do me? But to me, when it came to Aaron Rogers, the thing that I noticed in those couple plays, look a little slower.

I mean, looked a little slower. And a big part of Rogers thing was like movement, right? No different than last year. Kind of started playing poorly. He's 40 years old. Like most guys don't keep playing until they're 45. Like there's a chance it's done. Especially now coming off in Achilles.

Everyone's like, oh, he throws the ball well. Well, yeah, shit. I mean, he's going to throw the... Dan Marino at 60 years old spins the ball well. Right? I could go watch Jack Nicholas Putt. I bet he could make some 10 footers. Like, he's going to throw the ball well until he dies.

To me, it's more about how he plays. The media hates him. I get it. They're very... They're a weird group. I mean, they really are. Talk about a group that really struggles to resonate with normal people. It's like, guys, do you understand how you look on the social media streets?

Like, you guys are just unhinged. I mean, we're in 2024. What are you guys talking about? Question for the pod. Do you think Atlanta could be like the 2020 bucks if they get the right coach and quarterback? Seems to me like they have a great roster, but just suffer from coaching and quarterback mismatches. Could they turn it around in a year and compete with Sam Fran and Philly? No chance.

Who's going to be their quarterback? Were they getting their CJ Stroud? Who's your quarterback? I would have said they would have been in the mix for Kirk Cussons. It's coming off in Achilles. So I just,

I guess maybe if they got Harbaugh because they got some defensive pieces, keep improving the line of scrimmage, and somehow just find some service. I just don't know where they get a decent quarterback. I mean, part of Harbaugh's success is like J.J. McCarthy, Alex Smith,

Kaepernick. Like, when he's one, Andrew Luck. You can't win without a quarterback. I don't care if you're Bill Walsh, Jim Harbaugh, or me. You're going to lose. So I think that situation for Atlanta, personally, I'd kind of blow it up. I'd trade some of their assets.

Though I clicked on Rich McKay and Arthur Blank talking, it's not how Rich was talking. They think they got championship pieces. I also love, like, the team president that, like a Rich McKay. And I don't know Rich. So listen, maybe I'm reading it wrong. But he clearly is pretty in the mix of football decisions. I'm not saying he's making them.

But when it comes to salary cap, trades, like he's involved. Yet when the coach sucks, like, not my problem. Like, Demetroff's got to go. This guy, Dan Quinn's got to go. Arthur Smith's got to go. Like, I didn't fuck up. I'm just here with the owner. They got a good gig, man.

Make seven figs. Team wins. They get some credit. Team loses. Not on them. Incredible job. I'm going to go out of LIMSA. Sneaky scam going on with presidents like Rich.

It was like that way with Allen forever in Washington. It's like, well, you act like you're not the pseudo GM slash Grand Poo Bob, but you kind of are. Like there are truly some presidents, you know, that are just doing football stuff and are part of the group because they're boys with everybody. But they don't like, they wouldn't be up there with the owner when the coach gets fired. Like my guy in San Francisco, Al Guido. Don Smolensky with the Eagles.

They're helping making their organization a ton of money. But they're not doing this half in, half out job, which a lot of presidents, if you notice, Joe Banner did it forever in the NFL. It's such a scam. The moment shit goes wrong, not my fault, not my fault. Where the GM and the head coach, they're all in. They're either going to win or they're going to lose,

and they're going to get fired. The president loves being a part of it when shit's going well, like certain guys. and then get next to the owner and start pointing fingers when stuff goes wrong. And there's a large contingent of those guys in the NFL. And there's also a large contingent of just like legit presidents who are cash cows. And I just, I know these two guys in Smolenski and Al who are just that. That's what I'd want.

Guys that are money printers and are just good guys. Like not in to do like some weird scumbag, you know, we'll put a knife in your back the moment you aren't looking when you lose a couple games. because I'm telling you that's happening a lot in the NFL when it comes to these Kevin Warren. It's why I am un... It's why I get uncomfortable about that situation. Like, wait, I report to you,

but you're the business guy, but you have a too deep roster in your hand on game day. You want me to talk to you about the draft and my rankings and the trades we might make. But if I win, then shit, you're going to be right there next to me. but if I lose, you're going to be hiding somewhere. Like, think about any other industry with that definition of the situation.

You're like, this something doesn't add up here. Are we all in this boat together? Are you in this boat, if it's a yacht, and the moment it starts to sink, you're on another boat. To me, Rich McKay sitting next to Arthur Brink, had that written all over it. Now, listen, I saw this clip on Thomas Demetrov. He was fired by them.

He seems to like him. I'm not saying he's a bad guy. I'm just saying it's a very weird position. I wouldn't like, honestly, the present of business operations to, like, ever have say in anything football if he's just going to be on scholarship for every coach. It's just bizarre. It's not a comfortable, it's not a good way to run your organization. And there's a difference of, like, the GM and stuff. Like, that guy's allowed to be around.

He's cool. Like, we're talking football. He knows, he knows our secrets and stuff. if he's like not looking to cut my head off the moment I miss on a player in the draft or lose some games if I'm a coach. Regarding Trevor Lawrence, do you remember the comment he made when he was coming into the league? His wife said there's also more in life than playing football. Taylor agreed and said he doesn't play with a chip on his shoulder, and I just don't have that. I can't manufacture that.

I don't want to. That was such a huge red flag for me, and I'm not surprised he isn't living up to the huge expectations. If I was a GM, identifying prospects with a chip would be a top marker for me. But it seems like the hype train always takes over. I'm telling you. Like, it's so easy to go, I just want the toughest love football human imaginable. I want a guy that would like, like that dude, Monday night for Washington, who clearly's ankle and, you know, lower bodies were all screwed up. That guy was, I mean, playing until the end. They were getting blown. out and number seven's running the ball, Dylan Johnson.

Like that, you'd be like, you want that care, and he's not, you know, some elite NFL prospect. He's probably not going to get drafted, but you'd want that mindset and all your players. And then you get to the draft and you're like, well, Trevor Lawrence is way better than all these other quarterback prospects, and we need a quarterback. So it's like, ah. And you could argue, well, never, never stray from that idea, right? Only do that.

So you just pass on them. And you'd be like, well, just pass on quarterbacks. Take the best player. Take Jamar Chase or take whoever, you know, in that draft that's an elite player, right? I guess Kyle Pitts went four, Chase went five. Just take Jamar Chase. And you would have been proven right over time, but you wouldn't have a quarterback. And listen, Trevor Lawrence, someone just DM me.

They're like, you know, look at Peyton Manning. People forget he couldn't win. It's like, yeah, he couldn't win the playoffs. Peyton Manning was a second team all pro by his second year in the NFL. Peyton Manning was an elite player by his third year. Yeah, he didn't win in the playoffs. He was getting there. He was getting there.

Like, listen, if Peyton Manning's career had happened right now, people would have been critical of him. But you couldn't dispute how dominant he was in the regular season. Like, it's kind of, he was, I mean, I hate even saying this because Peyton Manning is in a different universe than this guy. I mean, this guy's a historic quitter. But James Hardin, like, part of the reason you can be critical of James Hardin because he dominates in the regular season most of his career.

Then he gets to the playoffs. he shits the bed. But Peyton, like, was so good in the regular season. Then he finally won it, and you just couldn't say anything. Trevor Lawrence, they didn't make the playoffs this year. They had a losing record in America. The throw he made on fourth down wasn't even remotely close. And listen, everyone has a bad game.

I like Michael Pennix as a prospect. That game was pretty ugly. That game was... Makes you think twice. Like, God, this... I might have to go back and watch some film. But it was one game. One thing about, Trevor had a bad season.

Every time I watched him, it's like, am I missing something here? And I obviously picked them to win the division. I thought he was going to be a top five quarterback. I listened to the pod. I was wondering why there's so much hate on Bryce Young. Have you seen the Panthers roster? Why don't you say anything about Trevor Lawrence? He has a way better team and still hasn't done anything.

Well, he did make the playoffs last year and throw a bunch of touchdowns in a playoff game and win a game after he threw a bunch of picks. I'm not roasting Bryce Young. And listen, I've acknowledged his owner's a nut. His coaching staff was a joke. The offensive personnel was awful. But there is just an eye test of like,

why does he look so tiny? Reality is, he is small. So I think that when you look at Bryce Young, you're not defining his career off a rookie year that was a joke. But I also think there were, some red flags. Right?

Like, it turns out Trevor Lawrence, you wouldn't have defined his career during the Urban Meyer season, right? It's like, no one. It's untenable. Like, what a, what an impossible situation. But were there some red flags that year looking back? Probably. I bet if we really did a deep dive, there were.

The difference is Trevor Lawrence is 6'5 and he can run. Bryce Young's not a great athlete and he's tiny. No one's acting. The other thing is, the other quarterback, how does it? was Bryce Young going to be better in C.J. Stroud? Like, how's it going to happen? I said this. It was clear, like, year one. Two is never going to be better in Josh Allen. He does not have the capability to be better than Josh Allen. It was clear. Year one. Or not Josh Allen. I meant Justin Herbert. It was clear. It's like one guy and the other guy, like, what the fuck are we talking about? And two has

become good. Josh Allen is a star. Like, it's clear that Bryce Young doesn't have what CJ has in the bag. If you go play golf with someone and you go play golf with a really good player, you go like, I don't have that shot. It might be like a draw six iron from 190 yards.

I can't even do that. My ball doesn't even turn that way. Or a drive. Or it could be like an incredible flop shot. I don't even know how to attempt that. And there's a level of that. Obviously, CJ's team and coach are

better. But when you watch CJ, you can remove stats and just watch. And you go, physically, he can't do that. And that's how I feel like when I watched two guys. I thought the same thing about Tua and Justin Herbert, you immediately know. Because physically, they're in a different universe, talent-wise. And when I watch the physical attributes of Bryce Young, he's the smallest quarterback I've ever seen in NFL history. Think about that. He's the smallest quarterback in NFL history. No guy. especially in the Super Bowl era, in the last 50 plus years, has ever weighed whatever he weighs. And whatever they tell you he weighs, remove 15 pounds.

If they tell you he weighs 200, I guess he weighs 183. He's 183 pound quarterback in the National Football League. Do you follow some of these players on Instagram? Do you see the size of these defensive players? Do you see how big the defensive linemen are? Have you just seen like Miles Garrett without a shirt on? Or Nick Bosa's legs? Or Aaron Donald, the way he plays?

Like, this is not every single team has an incredible pass rusher, let alone multiple big ones. How is that going to play? I like Bryce coming out. I thought he was, I would have taken him number one. I'm not acting like I'm smarter than these guys. I thought he was awesome. and then I saw him in a Panthers uniform and I was out.

This doesn't work. And this isn't baseball where it's like, well, Jose Altuve is 5 foot 5. It shouldn't work. Well, yeah, it does. He's an elite hitter. He's like Ted Williams meets like fucking Alist Rodriguez, right? It can work in baseball. It doesn't really work in basketball.

Like how many guys under 5'9 have ever played? Now, basketball is different. There's a huge height element that there's not necessarily in football. You can be six feet tall and play quarterback. You could be 511, 510 like Russell, who's a way better athlete in a much bigger arm and just be an incredible scrambler. But when I watch Bryce, I go,

well, he's never going to play like that. He's a pocket quarterback who's 5'9 a buck 80. What was I thinking? Like just sometimes we overthink it. And then you look back, you go, what was I thinking? You watch CJ Stroud, who's just, he's not Peyton Manning, he's not 6-5. But he's clearly 6-2, 6-3.

Well-put-together. Still young, only going to put on strength. Elite arm, elite touch. Wait, to me, there's not even a comparison like he's a better athlete than Bryce. That's the scary thing. To me, if Bryce was an elite athlete, that's why Kyler was an elite prospect.

Elite would be strong because he was short, but an excellent prospect. Kyler has absolutely everything beside height. He had, he's an accurate thrower. He has an elite arm in terms of strength. He has, he can play within the pocket. He obviously can scramble and he has an elite speed.

He's just short. Kyler has things that like Bryce, and he's thick. He outweighs Bryce, I'd say, by, in real pounds, not fake what they would report, 30 pounds of muscle, 2.15, one guy's 185. I mean, aren't these just incredible red flags? But once you get red flags, whether it's in business, whether it's a relationship, you can keep your fingers crossed and hope. I would say if you're an investor, the faster you get out, the more lucrative it will be for you.

If it's a relationship, the quicker you move on or break up, the less stress will be on you. And as a player or as a team, as a fan, the quicker you embrace, we might have a problem, the easier it is to transition off of it. Because the longer you hold on, the disappointment will just come inevitably. And maybe he's a historic outlier. Because if he becomes just a good player, I would say he's a historic outlier. In fairness to him, he's got an organization that you wouldn't bet on either. But say out loud, a guy 5'9, a buck 80 is going to be a good quarterback in the NFL.

I have a hard time seeing it now. And I saw it a year ago. And I feel stupid. The volume. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an

a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games.

Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

On The Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it, with our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors.

Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to Look Back at it on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.