The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 3 and Out - Tommy Cutlets, Double header on MNF, Mahomes and the refs

Episode Date: December 12, 2023

John reacts to the gift that keeps on giving that is Tommy DeVito. Is there is a big difference between Daniel Jones and DeVito, despite the loss, should the Packers still feel good about Jordan Love, the Titans showed up and won what can be considered their "playoff game", why do we have a double header in the middle of the season on Monday Night Football, and are we making too much of Patrick Mahomes being upset after the loss to the Bills. Tommy DeVito Mania - 5:55 Titans over the Dolphins - 15:13 Mahomes and the refs - 24:01 The Browns - 29:31 Morgan and Morgan - 36:05 Mailbag - 41:20 Follow John on Twitter, Instagram and YouTube for the latest. Check out Gametime - the fastest growing ticketing app in the US, and the official ticketing app of 3 & Out and GoLow -  for tickets to all of your favorite NFL, NBA, NHL, NCAA teams. Concert and comedy show tickets, too. Go to Gametime now to create an account, download the app and use code JOHN for $20 off your first purchase. #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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168 hours after issuance. Terms at Sportsbook. Dot draftkings.com slash football terms. What is going on, everybody? John Middlecock 3 and out. Podcast. How are we doing? Probably not as good as the DeVitos,

who are on top of the world right now. Props to Tommy DeVito, who takes down the Green Bay Packers on Monday night football. What a moment. We'll dive into that. Somehow the Miami Dolpherson. loss to the Tennessee Titans.

I mean, I literally watched it five minutes ago. Stunned. I still don't quite understand how it went down, but they lost. That was a bad loss. I wanted to talk about these double-headers. I just, listen, I'm trying to be positive. I'm trying to put a smile on my face. But it's really, I do not like it.

And I don't think anyone does. I don't get it. Some thoughts on the Chiefs and Patrick Mahomes. I saw a lot of people crushing him for being immature, and I just, I wanted to dive into that. And Joe Flacco makes a comeback and some thoughts on offensive line play and why it's starting to ruin the NFL. So make sure you get in.

If you listen on Collins feed, make sure you subscribe to the podcast. We put everything up on YouTube, so go subscribe there as well. And thevolume.com, we have some merch. Before we dive into the podcast, I just wanted to say, RIP to Frank Whitechek, who I've known Lorenzo Neal for a long, long time. Fresno State Bulldog and just buddy of mine. Obviously him and Frank and Kevin Dyson were part of one of the biggest plays of my life. And, you know, Frank was just a really good player.

I saw the NFL community just, you know, he's dead at 52 years old. So just that hurts your heart. I mean, it feels like a guy, you know, that I grew up watching football on. So just awful the Titans family and Frank. So RIP to Frank Whitechick. And other than that, I guess we just got a transition to football, so let's go. What I need you to do is I need you to grab your phone,

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And do something good for someone else. Game time promo code John. I honestly was going to start with my disdain for this doubleheader and then the Tommy DeVito just happened and listen I can be as cynical as anyone when it comes to sports I can be especially football this coach sucks this player's overrated Adam Silver's an idiot the NBA's crumbling in front of our eyes

the PGA tour screwed that's my natural inclination told my girlfriend the other day you know I saw this clip on Instagram that Christian McCaffrey says, ideally you're supposed to wake up unemotional, like purely equal, not happy, not sad, just no emotion

and let the day dictate. I tend to, you know, wake up a little grouchy. I tend to lean pissed off and then go from there, hopefully get happy as the day goes. And sometimes, not as often as it used to in my younger days, before I was jaded, worked

in the business, know what's really going on. wink and dayball hate each other. Even Joe Buck mentioned that again the night. Like, God, he couldn't really hide it. He gave us the PC answers. Yeah, they don't like each other. That's part of the deal. But the Giants were a pretty sad story most of the season, right?

They had a $40 million quarterback who looked like a complete scrub. Their season was just falling off the rails. They were an unwatchable product. Offensively, they were horrendous. Defensively, they were kind of scrappy. but it ultimately did matter. And then Tommy DeVito happened. And I'll be honest, until, I mean, a couple weeks ago when he started playing,

I had no clue who the guy was. And talking to a buddy who went through Illinois, he's like, you know what's crazy? Is you go through Illinois this year, and all the scouts love Beelma. They say it's one of the best visits on the road. Their offense is dramatically worse and not much changed. Basically, like, maybe Tommy DeVito isn't bad.

And honestly, before just how cool it is, with his family, looking like, you know, Jod Godi meets Tony Soprano, cruising down Brooklyn, in a suburban, smoking a cigar, doing something shady, going to eat a pasta dinner at lunch. That's what one thing Italian mobsters love to do is eat that pasta for lunch.

As you get older, I could never, I just want to go to sleep, but it's really fun. And I think sometimes we just lack fun in sports. Everything turns into this crazy controversy. Everyone has to have a hardcore take, whether you're a fan, whether you do this for a living, whether you're in the sport. And it just feels kind of pure that this undrafted free agent, this local hero who really resonates with the fan base, because he's one of them, is just having a fucking moment.

And listen, you don't need to be Bill Walsh, Mike Holmgren, or Jimmy Johnson to see, like, the guy's kind of got some talent. He's really athletic. He ran for 70 yards. He's tough as nails, and it's not like he has some lollipop arm. The touchdown he threw was an absolute laser. Tonight, I found extremely enjoyable. Watching the Giants who, let's face it,

the Packers are just not good enough to just get anointed. Now, I'm probably guilty because I thought, God, this team is a lock playoff team. Well, then Jordan Love threw a interception. He fumbled. Their punt-returner muffed one. I mean, they had three turnovers. It felt like in a,

15 minutes of real-time stretch. I'm still a really young team with a growing quarterback. Now, Jordan Love, like DeVito, showed a lot of moxie at the end. It felt like he threw multiple touchdowns because the one, and listen, I know these television execs are hammering this home because they're paying these former referees, a lot of money to be in the booth next to Collinsworth and Toriko, Troy and Joe. Nobody. I promise you, I speak for the consumer on this one.

we don't want to hear from some failed ref about his opinion on a play. We just don't care. We'll just let them figure out the outcome and we'll react from there. That's honestly a major pet peeve of mine because I know the way we all feel. We don't need to hear from John Perry or whoever. I just can't stand that. But again, I'm going to stay positive. Like I said, I'm leaning positive.

DeVito was really enjoyable. That was cool. would be cheesy if the guy sucked and this was all just pointless and they were just doing this to try to liven it up. But the dude led him on a game-winning drive on Monday night football against the Green Bay Packers as a pretty big underdog and threw an absolute strike to get them into field goal range. So I watch tonight going, is there a big difference between DeVito and Danny Dimes? Honestly, like one thing Danny Dimes really hangs his hat on is like, big time athlete. You know, he's not the most explosive thrower of the football.

He's not going to give you many explosive plays down the field, but he's athletic and he's accurate. Well, I'm watching DeVito tonight, 17 to 21. Athleticism is definitely not a problem for him. Like, what the fuck's the difference? And I'll tell you, there's one major one. This guy makes about $750,000, $800,000. Danny Dimes signed a contract for $80 million guaranteed.

There is no way around it. And listen, I don't pretend to know who the driving force was A lot of reports know the Maras were very big on making that work. Clearly, once they had some success, I don't think the GM and Dayball were opposed to it. But that's devastating. You can't have an $80 million quarterback. Three months later, when you look up and you have an undrafted free agent

and all of us go, looks the same. Are we sure DeVito is any worse? I'm not saying that he's a lock to be better, but like they have something and here's the other thing with DeVito it's pretty clear that this team likes the guy a lot so

listen sometimes these stories can be cheesy and stupid because it's fake because they're still losing you just need something to kind of prop up a franchise he's winning first undrafted free agent to win his first three games like we're all watching it it's working and tonight it really worked

now the Packers aren't exactly the 85 Bears on defense, but I've watched a lot of football over the last 25 years. I've done it professionally now for close to 15. That was pretty impressive. It really was. And you watch another guy who we're all guilty of this. And it's hard not to because their last two quarterbacks were Favre, Rogers. And it was a lot of like, listen, we're not saying he's Farver Rogers,

but watch these three passes against Brandon Staley's, corpse of a defensive coordinator and awful defenders. And listen, he was making sweet passes. And then he did it against the lions. And then he'd against the Chiefs. And it was like, maybe he's got a little Aaron Rogers to you. It's like, we just need to punt the brakes. And I think Aaron Rogers hit it on the head.

We need to be careful about this because it was a struggle most of the night. Now, here's one thing that guy really has. And he showed it early in the season. He showed it again the night. To me, mental toughness and mental fortitude as a quarterback. quarterback is such an underrated attribute, right? It's like the equivalent, like when Steph Curry or Kobe

Brian or Michael Jordan's one of 14, you think they stop pulling the trigger? No, they keep firing. They don't lose confidence. And a lot of quarterbacks, and you see it all the time, especially, and I'm not counting the elite ones, like Mahomes, the Brady's, the Mannings, the Josh Allen's. Like, I'm talking about that next year, which I think ideally

is kind of where Jordan Love, his ceiling is, right? Like, what DAC has kind of been before this year, some of the cousin stuff, even before this year, when Derek Carr was better. When they're not playing well, it usually does not go well. They don't usually break out of it. And you saw it tonight, like that final drive, he's throwing Cs. He's throwing darts. Like, yeah, that's what a franchise quarterback looks like. So there are points of time in this game. I'm jotting down notes like, you know, this is what Goudicin says. It was about the entire 10-game stretch, and he kind of looked like crap,

and there was a play that was broken up in the corner of the end zone on a deep go ball, and even Troy's like, you know, you can see him kind of hesitating there, that pat touching the ball, that extra split second is the reason that ball gets defended, little details of feeling really good about him. But I do think even in a loss, you feel pretty good about Jordan Love. Because I like that Saints game a lot early in the season, he kind of proves some mental toughness, some mental force. Which you already thought he had, but you keep doing that over and over.

That's how, you know, you kind of lean on a quarterback. And I was impressed with Jordan Love just given that final drive, even if most of the game was, you know, pretty iffy. I mean, he literally threw two touchdown passes on that final drive. A really nice, accurate third down ball to keep the chains moving. Fun game. Really fun game with the DeVito family. The second game, which, again, for the life of me,

don't quite understand why we have two games going on simultaneously, but whether that's the NFL's idea, whether that's some ABC execs, I don't know, but we'll dive into that in a second. My take was going to be the entire game, when I never for one split second until the end thought the dolphins were going to lose to the Titans. You're allowed to have weird games in December

on Monday Night Football against bad teams. Why? Because even for a shitty team like the Titans, and I do not think they're good. When you play them on Monday Night Football, football, this is their playoff game. The rest of their season is completely irrelevant. They're not going to the playoffs. We all have to acknowledge they haven't played relevant football in a while, but when you get the one-off situation on Monday night football, it's a really big deal for the players,

for the coaches, for the organization. We see it all the time. I've been saying this forever. You always see, and you don't always see a win, but a crappy team play well against. Again, And, you know, I mean, the dolphins were the number one seed late in the season on these Monday night games. It happens all the time that it's a game, right? And for a while, it actually turned to not be a game because the dolphins took like a 27 to 14 lead. Maybe it was 13 because they went for two. You're like, what, this is, is this thing about to be 30 to 13, the final score? And then all of a sudden, the Titan scored 15 unanswered and they win the game.

And my entire take was going to be, listen, I'm giving you. a pass Miami, just win the game a little bit like the NCAA tournament. Survive, advance, you're 10 and 3. No one will remember this game in a month when you're hosting a playoff game. I'm going to judge you on this last four-game stretch. The Jets, who are getting a little extra rest

and coming off, obviously, some momentum with a big win against the Texans. Zach Wilson played well. They have nothing to lose. That's going to be a hard game. And then a very, very hard stretch. I would imagine if we looked around the NFL, this finishing stretch could be the most difficult in the NFL.

Dallas at Baltimore, Bills. I mean, that was going to be a stretch where if they went two and two, you'd feel pretty good headed into the playoffs. Now all of a sudden, there's a lot of pressure on them, especially that Raven game. You could kiss that number one seed goodbye. I mean, this was not an enormous loss in terms of the division because the bills screwed up earlier in the season

and already have six losses. but this was a big kick in the you know what because of the number one seat and how important and we've said over and over you can watch the Dolphins tonight and if you watch them all season and listen we got to see if they could beat some really good teams I would feel pretty comfortable

about their chances at home in a playoff game against anybody doesn't mean they're going to win doesn't mean I bet on them but I would definitely take them seriously I am not picking them against any of these teams on the road in cold weather spots. I don't care how shitty Kansas City wide receivers are. I don't care who's injured on the Ravens.

I'm not picking them in those spots. And these type losses are devastating to the hopes of having multiple home games. So it's no judgment if you win the game. You win the game by one point whatever, move on, survive advance, get ready for the tough stretch. That loss to that Titans team, in that fashion, 15 unanswered, I didn't write it down, but it felt like, what, the last five minutes of the game? How does that happen? How does that happen?

Obviously, Tua was a little banged up in and out of the lineup down the stretch, but God, what a devastating L for Mike McDaniel. And really on the Titans, I don't have much to say besides, like, Will Levis has moments where, we're like, this is the craziest quarterback I've ever seen. Early in the game, he was running around like he was Josh Allen, meets Cam Newton meets Walter Payton. I mean, lower in his shoulder,

taken on multiple defenders. It's like, what is this guy? This guy's going to get killed. And he's getting up, flexing his big-ass muscles, and then he'll throw a ball that just looks like, you know, just an absolute dart

like he's Brett Farth. And then he'll make another play where he looks like one of the worst football players in the league. Bizarre player. No disputing his talent, right?

Good athlete, big arm. No clue what to make. of them. Really liked him a couple years ago at Kentucky. Obviously last year was pretty ugly and he's just the ultimate roller coaster ride. Now I don't feel good enough to say like this guy's a lock to be their quarterback next year but all of a sudden you win six, seven games. You don't draft a quarterback high. Crazy thing about the Titans is two years ago they drafted Malik Willis third round. This year they drafted this guy at the beginning of the second round. I mean they've invested some quarterbacks now. Yeah, I mean I don't find the Titans captivating at all.

if I don't watch another snap that they take the rest of the season. I won't lose any sleep, but I will give the franchise big time credit tonight for winning that game. It's always cool. And like I said, never forget this. In early to mid-December, you are going to have, and it might be less and less now because of the ability to flex games out, have bad teams beat a really good team.

It's going to happen. These are professional athletes who make a lot of money. It's a really big deal. to everyone involved. On the road or at home, it doesn't matter. Not surprised to see things get crazy tonight. What a moment with the veto. And before we dive into the Chiefs,

I have to say this. I'm going to get negative here. I do not understand. And listen, on Sundays, I got multiple four boxes. I got a lot of games going on. And it's easy to kind of monitor them all. I think the great thing in the sport of football,

the NFL, because in college you got multiple games going at one time. On Thursday night, on Sunday night, And on Monday night, there's one game going. Right. On Sunday, in the morning window, and the afternoon window, a ton of stuff is going on. Right. Even in a small afternoon window has three games going on.

But on the prime time spots, there's one game. I understood how they used to do it and staggered the opening weekend on Monday night football having two games. Cool with that. I'm fine with that. I get it. It's a blowout week one. this is December 11th, and we have two games going on at the same time.

Like, I'm sorry. I'm someone... Now, I understand if you're a Giants fan, a Packer fan, a Titan fan, or a Dolphavan. It doesn't matter. Because you more than likely just were watching the one game. You didn't give a shit about the other game. Just like you would probably do on Sunday. You might monitor it on your phone.

Maybe you got to go on your iPad, but you are locked in. As just someone who doesn't have, you know, a horse in the race here, I didn't gamble on either of the games tonight I just wanted to watch it like I do most Monday night games I want to watch the one game I'm out my girlfriend's mom's here she's like

I don't love the double boxes I'm like neither do I it was so much space I mean it'd be one thing if this is direct TV this is Google and YouTube one of the greatest innovative companies in the history of the world

they're on like 720p I got two boxes I got an 85 inch TV I'm wasting 40 inches of space it makes no fucking sense. I don't get why we got two games. Is it just a contingency if one of the teams is bad

and hopefully the other game's good? We've both teams. I mean, we had two games tonight where the Titans and the Giants are not going to the playoffs. I don't get it. I can't wrap my head around it. I try to keep thinking.

I love football. I mean, love football. It's my profession. I've dedicated my life to working in it and now talking about it. And my entire professional life surrounds Sundays, Saturdays, Thursdays, Mondays, the sport of football.

And I don't get it. It doesn't make any sense. It's not enjoyable. We're consumer first year. I care about the fan. I don't think it's fan friendly. And the one thing the NFL has over all these other sports, I mean, the NBA is doing cartwheels because players finally gave a shit about a regular season game, getting an extra

$500K. There's not one baseball game throughout the seat, one individual baseball game, besides the last game if it means getting into the playoffs that matter. Football, every game kind of matters. The primetime games really do, because everyone's watching. To do two games at the same time, I just can't wrap my head around it. I just will never understand it. And listen, I'm not naive enough to act like there might not be positive business implications,

maybe you goose the numbers, I don't know. I just don't like it from a consumer standpoint. On the Chiefs. Mahomes going up and hugging Josh Allen. Now, they have a relationship, clearly. They've played in the celebrity golf tournament, the match against Curry and Clay together. So, like, they're buddy buddy, right?

Or was that Travis Kelsey? And I forget, but Alan and Mahomes are clearly buddies. They've known each other a while. But for him to go up after Josh Allen just won the game and be screaming about the referees to Josh Allen after he just beat him, imagine if Josh Allen had done him. that a couple years ago with the 13 seconds to Mahomes and just scream 13 seconds or just whatever. My coach is an idiot.

We were like, what is this guy's deal? So Mahomes was unhinged after the game, clearly. And I think a lot transpired kind of a carryover from what happened the previous week with a no PI call on a guy that can't catch a cold, Valda Scantling. But I want to say this. I will support Mahomes on this. Vince Lombardi had a line that said, You show me a good loser. I'll show you a loser.

There's a reason why Tom Brady, after he lost his Super Bowls, stormed the locker room and didn't talk to his soul. You know who's notoriously one of the worst losers of all time? Michael Jordan. Kobe Bryant and Tiger Woods last time I checked weren't lovey-dovey after you beat them. most guys who are used to winning nonstop aren't gracious losers who are the guys we consistently

talk about like god he handles himself really well at the podium after annel guys who lose a lot right you ever seen a rich guy lose a lot of money he ain't very happy so mahomes freaking out while kind of embarrassing in a vacuum the way he was acting hoot and hollering screaming over something that happened. I mean, the guy was off sides. Kind of understandable when you think about the moment this guy got into the NFL and started playing. One, he showed up, he redshirted his team went to the playoffs. He starts playing. He immediately wins the MVP. He goes toe to toe with Tom fucking Brady.

And then he starts rattling off Super Bowls and Super Bowl appearances. You think this guy is used to be in 8 and 5 and having a terrible offense? He's never seen this. So when you get involved in some, something, and I don't care who you are at what level, and you're not used to it and it's not going well, it's going to throw you off. So when I hear, God, he's not handling himself well, he's never been in this situation. It's the thing about the NFL. It literally humbles everybody. Most guys get to the league. You have an up and down season. Maybe you make a playoffs one year.

You don't make the playoffs the next year. Maybe you tear an ACL. Maybe you have some adversity. Like, what's adversity as Mahomes really had? Rolled an ankle in a playoff game? stormback the next week won it ended up in the Super Bowl lost in the aFC championship game like he he has twice I mean his adversity no one in the division has ever sniffed him he has beat basically everyone in the league consistently when it's mattered and he's basically been since his first year starting the Super Bowl favorite when the year starts so all of a sudden they lose a couple weird games in fashions that one are self-inflicted

regardless, like, kind of understandable. You can say he's whiny, you can say he's immature, I just say he's a guy that always wins since he's been in the NFL. It's like, well, what about Texas Tech? Can you imagine how far away Patrick Mahomes feels in his mansion with his golf hole and lake from his days playing for Cliff Kingsbury

against Kansas and Iowa State? You probably can't even fucking remember those days. Yet in Kansas City, always knowed is winning. I'm not saying that like, listen, it's so easy for all of us say you shouldn't act like that. Well, most guys that lose a lot probably wouldn't act like that because they've been through it all the time. This guy, all he's used to is winning. He doesn't know how to lose, right? That's kind of understandable. And again, I would go back to this. Most of the best players of my lifetime, since I've been watching sports, Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, Tom Brady,

Kobe Bryant don't handle it well honestly Tom handles it very very poorly which looking back why wouldn't he he thinks he's winning it all the time most of the time he's right

so yeah Peyton Manning handle a little better lost a lot more than Tom right Aaron Rogers handles it kind of hit or miss well he loses a lot in big spots this guy doesn't so I listen we can make fun of them

it was kind of funny. The way he's screaming about the referees fucking the game to Josh Allen's face. Josh had to be like, what is this guy? What's he talking about? But I do understand him not being able to control his emotions. And to me, there's a difference of,

like, D.K. McCaff right now is unhinged. Can't control his emotions. If he doesn't get them under control, it's going to kind of derail his career, I think, to being an all-time great, to just be in this kind of roller coaster of a player. Mahomes had a bad moment in a spot that he's never experienced before since he's been in the pros. I kind of get it.

The Browns. I don't talk enough about Kevin Stafansky. And whatever he's doing this year has been pretty awesome. Because whether he was the leading force, whether it was Andrew Barry that was around him when he worked with the Eagles, hiring Jim Schwartz has changed that team. But being able to function as an offense with a two. $230 million quarterback who was terrible beside one half of football. PJ Walker and Dorian Thompson, to have your team in the playoff conversation in that situation,

I don't care if you're playing with the 85 Bears defense or the steel curtain. That is hard in 2023. But then to sign Joe Flacco, and a couple games later he's throwing for 300 plus yards, and he's breaking your team down, like to me, if this was Andy Reed, if this was Sean McVeigh, if this was Kyle Shanahan, we would be, I mean, we would never shut up about it. But it's the Browns, and Stafansky's not as famous these guys.

What a job that guy's doing. It was really cool. I think I saw it. Someone tweeted out on my timeline of Flacco talking to the guys and you could see everyone just kind of gravitated toward him. He actually looks pretty good. I mean, he's never been able to move. He throws a beautiful deep pole.

It's, you know, we talked earlier about DeVito being a fun story. that's the one thing the NFL has is like there's some purity to it of like that's kind of cool you don't really get to say that in a lot of other sports consistently it happens all the time in the NFL where you just sit back and go

God that's cool I don't care about flacko one way or the other it's hard not to watch them have some success lead a team to a couple of victories and go God that's fun that's entertainment

no wonder the NFL is the number one television show. And I think Stafansky is throwing his hat into the ring as a coach of the year candidate, for sure. And if they go off to keep rattling victories, I mean, they're that weird game away when they lost to the Steelers and they had multiple defensive touchdowns from basically being a playoff lock. I also love, like, I understand, like, there's a lot of moving parts in the AFC. Tonight, officially, the 49ers punched their ticket to the playoffs. We can punch the cowboys, the lions, the Eagles, like those teams are going to the playoffs. Those teams are going to the playoffs.

I'm trying to explain to people around the dinner table tonight about the playoffs, because they're like, six and six, how are the Packers going to be in the playoffs? I'm like, well, the NFC sucks. So they're going to be a couple teams. To me, there are basically three spots, or excuse me, two spots, three teams. Between the Vikings, the Packers, and the Rams. I think two of those teams are going to make it. Seattle, I don't see a chance.

I guess they could beat the Eagles this weekend. I would not bet on it. Albert Breer had a, I saw him tweet this out, and I saw him write about it, is basically the deterioration of offensive line play. And he's not wrong. And the biggest reason is because we've wiped out OTAs and practice now in training camp

and throughout the season is no longer the same. It is not nearly as physical. they don't wear pads. And I was thinking about it, like, if I'm Tyreek Hill or Jalen Ramsey or whoever, on the outside, even linebackers taking angles and stuff, I can work on my craft. It is virtually impossible as an offensive lineman to work on your craft in shorts and a t-shirt. Now, I remember a while back Julian Edelman, I was listening to him on a podcast or a television

show I forget, and he talked about when all those years with the Patriots, they were always getting the one or two seat. So they always had a buy. And he said, we used to go full padded practices and scrimmage and get after it for a couple days during that period of time. It helped, you know, kind of like,

we didn't just dick around that week. It was very serious football. Do you know how many teams put on pads now in like the month of December? I would say slim the nun. One, you run out of padded practices. You only get so many. And this gets back to

anytime you negotiate, whether it's for $100 or billions of dollars in this situation, there's a give and take. And when you get greedy and when you want it all, and I understand why the players and the owners all want the most for their sides. But their last negotiation, which the players wanted more money, and the owners found a way to finagle it by, giving him some days off and less padded practices. And it sounded great.

The owners would rather have money in their pocket all day long. And the players are like, damn, we get a little more time off, easier on our body. It's hurt the product. It truly has. Because when I was a kid, there weren't nearly as many injuries. And they practiced in pads all season long. Now, maybe there are other external factors of like the excessive training now. I'm no NFL trainer for 30 years to know all the differences,

but clearly there are more injuries now than ever. And the offensive line play, which is not all the NFL's fault, because in college so many teams run the spread offense, but you can't train and develop these guys, and it's currently a disaster. Because the supply and demand of good defensive linemen coming into the league year after year, you saw tonight, the Miami Dolphins did not have a chance to stop Harold Landry.

He was so much faster. And Harold Landry, it's not like he's Miles Garrett or T.J. Watt. It's okay, solid, good pass rusher. Every single week, you're facing an edge rusher and interior rushers who are just good. Who could, like, go to the Pro Bowl. A lot of teams do not have any offensive linemen that can sniff the Pro Bowl. so you get kind of crappy play because when your offensive lines are bad

the product gets bad and that to me is one area of concern big picture if the offensive linemen continue to deteriorate at the rate in which they are it's going to be a problem because football is going to look worse and worse I want to dive into a player

I like to add a coach that made it look easy because I think there's a coach that he deserves his flag and he made it look easy. Mike McCarthy said on Monday did not feel good. Tuesday felt really bad and did not sleep. So on Wednesday morning, he went into the training table.

It's the best part about working in football. You have access to food and access to doctors like that. So if you're ever hungry or ever have some weird feelings, you're taking care of. You're never going to be hungry and you're never going to be injured slash sick long. So he goes into the training table early in the morning, meets the trainer and the doctor, they immediately get an x-ray, rush from the hospital, he has surgery, appendix out. And all of a sudden it was like Mike McCarthy, is he going to be away, is it going to be weird? He not only was back, that smile and that burly guy, he feels like he's on top of the world right now. Cowboys are rolling,

team looks sweet. He looks a little chubbier than normal, but life is good. He easily could have beat the Eagles twice, but to get him at home, in front of Jerry and Stephen going nuts, Cowboy fans just having the time of their life, he has Dak Prescott on the path to potentially becoming the MVP.

Props to Mike McCarthy, because he's a guy, and I'm sure I'm guilty of this, that thought he was pretty bad toward the end of Green Bay. And the last couple of playoff victories, I never thought that this guy, and listen, I picked him to win the division, but I think I just did that to just be different.

They look really good. And Mike, appendix, healthy. Looks like he's having fun, man. So props to Mike McCarthy and the Dallas Cowboys. If you're ever injured, you can check out Morgan and Morgan. Their fee is free unless they win. For more information, go to 4thepeople.com slash John, or dial pound law.

That's pound 529 from your cell phone. That's FOR, the people.com, slash John, or pound law pound 529 from yourself. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all,

embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the iHeart radio. app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying.

Yep, that's me, Clivert Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment,

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Most of you know the drill. If you don't, you fire into those DMs on Instagram. At John Middlecoff, two Fs. Everyone, not including my family, has misspelled that name, so you got to do two Fs. John Middlecough, at John Middlecough. wide open, fire in, get your question answered on the show. If you're watching on the YouTube, make sure you subscribe to the page. If you're listening on the podcast, you guys know the drill.

In recent pods, you've been talking how NFL owners can fire coaches at will because of their money. This is from Evan. I work for a pro sports team and have talked to the owner, and recently he said coaches and GMs are hired to be fired. How true is this throughout the league? P.S. Some of the boys are looking to take a trip down to Arizona for a fall or for a golf trip in February. Any courses that you recommend? It's right around waste management time, so I'd hit that tournament. Weakapau, Trune, Whirlwind, Raven, a little cheaper but solid. I would say when it comes to the owners, think about the history of, let's just stick with the NFL,

but I think it rings true in the overwhelming majority of sports, pro sports. coaches, GMs, and players. How many of them this one's for John right off into the sunset? How many Aussie Newsombs retire

still get paid a lot and around the organization? I would say historically most guys are fired. Take most of the older Super Bowl winning coaches in the league. Belichick fired. Andy Reid fired.

Pete Carroll fired multiple times. McCarthy fired. So this year young crew of guys who have not been fired yet. LaFle, obviously Kyle McVeigh, Vrable, if you coach long enough, it's kind of inevitable. Could be speaking out of turn,

but like the Pat Riley's who have never been fired is pretty rare. Right? I mean, the best coach in football history, at least resume-wise, Belichick, got shit-canned. I mean, Andy Reid, the current best coach, you know, over the last decade, fired. So it's just part of the, the drill. I don't think there's really any way to avoid it. It's kind of crazy. It's just the nature

of the business and I think you're guys right. I wonder what owner that is. Hey John, we've all seen the rise of Purdy. It's gotten me curious about other backup quarterbacks who might be going under the radar. If it wasn't for a couple injuries, we might never have seen Purdy take a snap. Do you think the situation like this is an outlier? Or would the coaching staff have seen his ability in practice and giving him an opportunity at some point. There seem to be a lot of teams struggling at quarterback at the moment. I'd love to see more guys get a chance. Well, if you have an established starter in the top, I would say like 18, you know, almost down to what Jimmy was a couple years ago.

Derek Carr now, once you start paying them a decent amount of money, those guys are set, right? In terms of you kind of, those guys are going down with the ship. Now, Purdy made the team after being a seventh round pick. So he did enough in training camp to catch the eye of Kyle Shanan. He was the third quarterback when they brought back Jimmy Garapolo. So he had definitely impressed. Like, you have to impress in practice. Like, clearly Jake Browning has improved.

They felt comfortable enough making Jake Browning the backup quarterback coming into the NFL. Now, these last couple games, it's hard to watch Jake Browning. Browning and think he's not bad. I mean, he could just be a bridge starter. Could someone give him $10 million just to handle a season as they were going through some shit? Doesn't seem crazy. I see a lot worse. And it makes you wonder that how many guys like him. Now, I would say pretty better college player than Jake Browning, but he's a good example. You can improve. Most of us, if you think about it, in any business we do, you improve, like ideally. As time goes on, you get better at your craft.

You kind of hone it, you figure things out. But whether you're working for someone, whether you own the business, it gets better as you go. But if you're a backup quarterback, like yeah, they see in practice kind of because you're going against the scout, or you are the scout team quarterback. You know, the NFL is not, if you're the backup quarterback, the starting quarterback takes every freaking rep. Right, so you're over there with the defense.

It's why when Purdy began playing, his biggest advocate was Fred Warner. Right? Because, like, Debo and all these, they've never played with him, Trent. At first it was like, oh, we'll see what he's got. Fred Warner was the guy, like, I'm telling you, this dude can play. I've been telling Kyle for a while, this guy's making, this guy's good. So the defense, ironically, probably can give you a better scouting report if the guy's good or bad than sometimes the coaching staff

because the defensive coaching staffs over there with some of the young assistants running the cards. Especially if you have an offensive head coach. Now, those guys that are doing their job should be watching that film as well during the week. But once you get a top 10 quarterback, you're just so focused on that guy. People don't realize once the season starts,

it's on the player to do a lot of the fundamental stuff. Like the team is just focused on a weekly basis about the opponent. when you play. So it's, it's complicated. Think how many guys that, you know,

in NFL history, like it's very, very difficult to play wide receiver, to play D-Line, to play linebacker, and to get, not get an opportunity if you're in the league a couple years.

Because inevitably, guys get injured, you end up playing, you get to play special teams so you can stand out that way. You just get some run. You eventually get a starting gig. I remember listening to Will Compton

tell a story, like, how he made the team and then the guys got injured and then by the end of the season his rookie year I think he was an undrafted free agent he just he started like it's just it's hard at quarterback right not necessarily now because all these injuries but it's very easy like if you play behind a guy

that never gets injured you just never fucking play and the only tape like when you scout a guy like that is the preseason and let's face it the preseason is pretty irrelevant so yeah it's just a complicated thing. This is a people business. So there's a lot of guesswork. There's a lot of stuff that you can't

quantify clearly with quarterback. How fast you process, how well you read, how will you handle pressure? It took for Zach Wilson literally saying, F it, that was the motto of the Jets and just playing loose to finally look good

for a half. Think about that. I have a lot of respect for anyone who snit playing in the NFL at any position. You know, maybe not kicker or a punter. You just God-given talent. And then if you're able to kind of work your way up,

because it's truly in a world, let's face it, like the meritocracy in America's long gone. Rig game. Football's not a rig game. If they think you can play, you play. And at every position, you ultimately get a chance to play. But quarterback is one that you can just never get your shot. You can just never get your shot.

And some guys like Purdy, broken leg, broken foot, boom, he's in. It's actually happened to a lot of guys, if you think about it in recent memory. Most of them have just kind of sucked. It's from Gunner. The thought just occurred to me about players' player contracts and I'd love to get your take. Shohei Otani just signed a massive deal, which averages $70 million a year. I saw a post on Instagram that it said after taxes, he will only take home $34 million a year.

This means over 50% is taken out of his salary, not sure if that is just by the state of California, it includes federal taxes. It includes it both. But we'll get into this in a second. My question is this. Do you think we will ever see players any sport, college, or pro stop signing at all

or as frequently with teams and schools in these incredibly high tax cost of living market states due to the economics of where the team is located? From a business perspective, It makes a lot of sense, but I also recognize that there are some really good franchises in some of these markets. The Niners, the Lakers, the Rams, the Dodgers, the Yankees. It would be hard to say no to these teams. Well, here's the thing.

It was just reported. It's one of the craziest contracts in the history of sports. He signed a 10-year contract, and he's only making $2 million a year and deferring $680 million, which probably is going to turn out to be genius unless inflation, just fucking rips for a decade, because he will immediately move to Vegas, he will immediately move to Jupiter, Florida, and probably take home the difference of $100 million in a no-state income tax haven state, which is smart business.

Now, there are a lot of factors here. It's talking about Otani specifically, because Bobby Bonilla gets a lot of credit for his contract. It's actually moronic. You would rather have the $30 million, up front instead of spreading it out over 30 years, even if you get $17 million of that from taxes and then invest it, you would have flown by if you just would have invested in the S&P back in 1995

or whenever he signed the contract. Now, when you talk about money at this level, it's just an all-time chess move by everybody involved. It really is. Speaking of the Dodgers, and I grew up hating them because I'm a Giants guy, I have nothing but respect for the way they're operating. The San Francisco Giants are a fucking giant. joke, an absolute embarrassment.

And the Dodgers, you can be like, well, they've never won a World Series. True, they won the fake, you know, bubble 60 game won. But the team they're putting together, adding Otani, I watch baseball to watch stars. It's seven million games during the summer. Give me some entertainment. And their team is really entertaining. And clearly, Otani, here's the thing.

I do think the Bay Area, the Giants are in more trouble, like, than the Niners. Because in football, it doesn't really matter. You're kind of stuck. franchise you. Like, you think Nick Bosa wants to live in California? Of course not. He's a Florida guy. He goes there immediately when the season ends.

Debo Samuel, they had to tell him last year, like, you can't go to Florida. You got to stay on the West Coast. So he immediately came to Scottsdale. But the team suite, you end up making more money off the field. I don't think it hinders it that much. Because you can make a ton off the field if you're playing for the Yankees, if you're playing for the Lakers, if you're playing for the Niners.

Ideally, like, I've said this forever. The Cowboys would be the number one free agent destination. they just never have any cap space because Jerry's always paying premiums for his own guys but if they ever had openings it would be a double whammy you get the brand and you get no state income tax like I'm sorry anyone like who cares about taxes

has never made any fucking money has no clue what they're talking about because I just crossed an imaginary line in my net worth fucking skyrocketed my yearly income I mean it didn't double but it went up dramatically crossing an imaginary line

I can take an hour flight to go back if I want. And I'm actually closer to Southern California, which I'm a Northern California guy, Southern California is nicer. Like if I take the emotion out, not a soul that is not from California or Northern California would ever choose Sacramento or San Francisco over Manhattan Beach,

Newport Beach, San Diego. Nobody. And it's always been like that in pro sports for the most part. Football is different that way. Obviously, the Lakers have always benefited from that historically. and I understand why. For the pod, give me your thoughts on this. I think Travis is retiring at the end of the season

and Mahomes knows it. And that's why he got so upset. Just go rewatch his rant and it makes more sense. Also, Jason Kelsey retires two and in five years they both go into the Hall of Fame together. I would say the thing about Jason Kelsey is he's still in the peak of his powers.

Travis is still good. but now he's got this girlfriend that's worth billion dollars. Just one thing is you get older, especially like Travis has more money than he ever needed at this point, even though he's been quote unquote an underpaid player. The value of time, and I can relate to this, like at 39 years old, what time means to me is dramatically different than it did five, 10 years ago.

And I don't have children yet. The thing I value the most is not money. It's time. And it's the ability to control, my time. So Travis Kelsey is immediately going down as arguably the best pass catching tight end of the all time, one of the great players of his era, and he's won multiple championships. And here's the thing with Travis, a lot like Jason, he's got multi-talance. He could do movies, he could host shows, he could do whatever he wants. And I think as you get older and you realize

like I can make money other ways. You kind of drift toward like maybe the thing that you're passionate about and I think he loves football. I wonder if he's thought about it this year. He got injured a couple times. Rehab probably sucks. And it's like, what am I doing this for? To win another ring?

Like what is not really going to change some argument for me arguing against you? Like, well, Gronk's got three. He's only got two. Like, who fucking cares to them? I mean, ultimately, you know, Brady's kind of an outlaw. are like, I want 10. He's got two rings. How many players in the history of the NFL who are star players, non-quarterbacks, have two rings?

Like, he's in pretty special company. So I didn't never cross my mind. I haven't really spent that much time thinking about Travis retiring, though. Someone said he said it on his podcast or he said it somewhere. Wouldn't shock me at all. Would not shock me at all. Which, listen, if the chiefs are going to have a true dynasty, they're going to go through the iteration of a team

without Travis Kelsey and Tyreek Hill. They've been without Tyreek for now this year two. If Travis leaves and I think you would have to say is Chris Jones, are they going to give him $120 million? Or do you tag him and trade them? I don't even know if he's taggable.

I forget, I'd have to go back and look at the details of the way it all played out. But you know what I mean. Look at Belichick and Brady. They literally had three different teams. The Bruske, Vray Bowl, kind of that group, Rodney Harrison. then they had the Moss Welker kind of group and then they transitioned to the Edelman-Gronk

McCordy Hightower group. So you just Andy's, think how many different teams Andy's had in his career that have won. So I'd feel pretty good if I'm a Chiefs fan but that's a hell of a point by you. Yeah, very possible. Because I think, I wonder if Mahomes knows

if he is going to retire. That would have been on the short, like, minute-long reel. I mean, that's one of the coolest plays we've ever seen. Truly is. That was bad ass. My jaw, when that play happened, hit the floor because I thought, I'm more of a defender on Sean McDermott, biased, know the guy. He's always been cool to me.

I do believe he's a little stiff. Listen, some people are. But to lose like that, I think it would have ended his career in Buffalo. I think he might not have made it until next week in Dallas. He probably does, but you know what I mean. That loss, it's one thing to lose. If they would have lost on that play, It almost felt like version of what happened to them in the 13th second game on steroids.

It was crazy. Got very lucky. I mean, can you imagine Tony walking around that town? How does he go to a restaurant? How does he go anywhere? If Mike McCarthy wins a Super Bowl with Dallas, does he get in the Hall of Fame? 100%. How many coaches you'd have to ask, like, Belichick,

or, you know, one of the guys in NFL films, pretty short list of guys that have won multiple Super Bowls with two different teams. Belichick didn't Andy Reid didn't Parcells did not It's incredible accomplishment To get to two Super Bowls with two different teams

Right Bill didn't Andy did Pete did not He'd be on a short list man He'd be on a short list I'm sure there are other guys than I'm missing Holngren is one

But he only won it with the Packers Walsh only coached for the Niners I mean Jimmy Johnson quit I guess he went to Miami but he never made the Super Bowl got to get McCarthy's flowers man something that seems so obvious

about Kansas City penalty I don't think enough people are talking about is that the flag is thrown as soon as the play starts if that was an incomplete pass to Kelsey with a five-yard flag on top

nobody is shitting a brick today but it just happened to develop one of the coolest plays ever that's the thing it's like if you like sports there are certain plays in any sport, you know, like a walk off inside the park home run, right? A half court shot to win it in March Madness. That Kelsey play where if you're watching it live, which I would imagine, I haven't seen the television ratings, 30 plus million people were watching Chiefs bills at that time especially.

You like fell out of your couch. I mean, my heart stopped because again, I thought, listen, Andy's a made man. they're going to be fine. McDermott's career ends. I thought Travis Kelsey, that was my first thought. Not even the play was cool. I thought Travis Kelsey just ended a man's career. And it felt like he fucking ended the bills.

It was crazy. And then not only wasn't Tony, it went to Tony. He was the guy. It's just, the visual of Josh Allen on the side looked like his whole family just got murdered. Never seen anything like that. Good point, though. Good point.

Hey John, why can't my guys to Fansky get some credit? Guy has steered us through losing three of our starting five offensive linemen, our all pro running back, and the guy we're paying $230 million to play quarterback. He has Joe Flacco looking like it's 2015 and us in position to grab the five seat. You're not in position. You're grabbing the five seat, homie. You guys are going to the playoffs. We also have beaten the Ravens and the Niners,

who are both, in my opinion, the two best teams in each conference, would you agree he deserves coach of the year? Here's the thing I will say. It's starting to get a little uglier for my man, Dan Campbell, Motor City Kitty's. If Dan Campbell wins 12 games for the Lions, it's the fucking Lions. Now, the way he got there was a little weird.

It's still the Lions. Now, you could argue they won nine games last year, so it's only a three-game improvement. The Browns were disaster last year. They're clearly way better. I definitely think he's thrown his hat in the ring. I'm recording this before LaFleur and Green Bay has played. If they win, he's definitely in the mix.

They got rid of Aaron Rogers, and they might make the playoffs with Jordan Love. So yeah, I mean, is it, how do we define the award? That would be my question. Is it a guy that had expectations? Like most everyone with a pulse, pick the Lions to be pretty good.

So if he wins 12 games, yeah, it's what you should have done. You get a good team, division's down a little bit. Or is it a guy like the Browns who have seen the worst stuff happen on a weekly basis? Injury after injury after injury. And quarterback down, even Miles Garrett's banged up. You get Joe Flacco off the couch. He's breaking down the team.

And honestly, he gave a great speech. I'm like, God, Joe Flacco seems like a cool guy. Yeah, he definitely get it. If McVeigh would have beat the Ravens, He would have definitely been in the mix, but somehow him and Stafford fucked up the timeouts at the end of the game. Big fan of you and Colin,

but I wanted to get your take on two things. Colin always compares Big Ben and Camp, as far as physical beings who deteriorated, but I don't think they're really comparable. Cam Newton's last prime year, he was 29, and Big Ben's was 36. Seven years is a long time, so thoughts on why he groups him together.

I've gotten a lot of this, and I've seen a lot in like our Instagram and Twitter, comments. Sometimes it's harder. When you're on Zoom, if that comes up again, because I'm with you, Cam Newton did not have the career Big Ben at. Cam Newton's high was really high, pretty short-lived. Big Ben was really good into his mid-30s. He was, I mean, Big Ben's a Hall of Fame or no doubt about it. To me, Cam Newton is not. So I'm in agreement there. I think where he lumps them both in together is, listen, I think Colin's always been hard. on Ben because he thinks that he's an underachiever,

which is a weird thing to say for a guy that had the achievement, but I do think it's fair. Right. A lot of beer, a lot of hot dogs, did not take football as seriously from a training standpoint as Brady, as Rogers,

as Manning, right? And he was physically as gifted as anybody just like Cam. So I think he lumps them in as like, Big Ben, in his younger years, all-time physical freak. Now, he was a better pocket quarterback as he got older. Cam Newton could not. So that is more than fair.

Obviously, Big Ben in his 30s was still very, very good. Cam Newton sucked. That being said, Josh Allen is 27 in his take that he has three more prime years left. Would you match up with Cam Newton's career trajectory? Do you think he only has three more prime years left? Well, if he's 27 years old, he takes a lot of physical hits. Like, the one thing when you watch a lot of these, like Mahomes, he is less likely to try to run guys over.

And when you run guys over, like I don't think there's going to be a deterioration. like Cam? Because Cam was carrying the ball at such a high clip. Because he's, I mean, to me, the most greatest power runner of all time from a quarterback. Inevitably, someone's going to crack you

and shatter a bone. Shatter your shoulder. Shatter your elbow. So I wouldn't pick a number because if you told me he didn't get hurt, he's got five elite years left. But at any moment, something really, really bad can happen.

It's inevitable. This is football. And while the big hits have been, been taken out of the game, the speed has never been faster. So if you're not looking and all of a sudden you kind of lower your shoulder and that Dre Greenlaw that, you know, whoever the big hitting linebacker, maybe a defensive end, T.J. Watt type guy comes and cracks you, it could really injure some stuff. And if that happens, that could throw off his career trajectory.

The problem with him is, and you saw this forever with Cam, I want you to run. It's like one of your elite characteristics. but maybe as you age, and this has always been Steve Young's thing, and he wasn't a power runner, but he was a great runner, kind of more like Lamar. See, what Lamar's really good at,

one, his touch has dramatically improved as a passer, but when you watch him play, remember how Peyton Manning used to just hit the ground, like when people were going to sack him? He's like, I'm not getting mollywapped. Like, I'll hit the ground and we'll play another damn. Lamar does that when he runs.

Like, Lamar sees like three linebackers are kind of close. He hits the ground. He doesn't really do it. the slide, he just kind of plops, and that's going to save his career. Josh Allen, I mean, yesterday one of the big plays was him carrying a pile like he was Earl Campbell. To me, that's kind of Jalen's deal. Like, okay, everyone's loving the tush push, but can you imagine the pounding? I saw someone, I think, tweet out, like, what if they just ran the tush push every single play? They'd bleed the clock, they'd have inevitably

score. Do you know what that would do to your O-Lyman and your quarterback? They'd kill them. especially your own line, but they'd be exhausted. You can't, and I think the guy was kind of being sarcastic, facetious, whatever, but I don't know. Why can't fans of the NFL see what Mahomes is a sore loser who cries when he loses and walks off the field? Well, I talked about this on the podcast. So did Brady. So did Tiger. So did Kobe.

What did Vince Lombardi say? Show me a good loser. I'll show you a loser. He ain't used to lose. right? I mean most winners don't handle it well most rich guys don't handle losing money well the broke guy handles it better why? He's not used to any money

most losing quarterbacks like oh yeah he handles himself very well at the podium yeah he fucking never wins a game he's never been above 500 that's all he knows question across the pond thanks to the pod helps me keep in touch with the NFL the chiefs obviously not having a good season by their standards how much do they miss Eric

B. N. Me being the O.C. Well, Andy Reid's been calling plays the whole time. I mean, just like Eric B. Enemy, now Matt and Aggie, they periodically call the place. I think their problem is they just ran into the perfect storm. They've drafted some wide receivers who aren't good enough. Rice looks pretty good, but the Sky Moore situation has not worked out. And Travis Kelsey is not the same guy. So my guess is this offseason.

It's less like, to me, their offense is, it's a lot. This is Andy Reid's baby. What did Andy Reid say? This guy's never getting a job for me. He's got to leave because I get all the credit. Rightfully so. I mean, I've seen it. What I think the Chiefs are going to do this off-season

is they're going to do two things. They're going to draft a skill guy really high, especially if they're out in the first round. Let's say they have the 23rd pick. Would it shock you if they trade next year's one to move up to like 10 to draft one of the sweet wide receivers, like the wide receiver from Florida State?

and they will sign a tight end and I would imagine they will try to do what the Patriots always did a Mike Evans type guy, an older player who's like, hey man, you want to win another Super Bowl? You want to come play with Patrick Mahomes? I think they got Mike Evans written all over him. Honestly, kind of more surprised

Mahomes hasn't lost his shit sooner. He hasn't been playing his best ball, but their receivers are two scoops of ass and relying on a second round rookie to be the number one receiver and 34-year-old Kelsey. Listen, man, you do not win the Super Bowl every year.

You'd be like, middle guy, you just love the cheese, you ain't. No, I just followed football my whole life. Like, when I was really, really young, Walsh and Montana didn't win the thing every year. Sometimes you have a down year.

I had a front row seat like everyone my age to the Belichick Brady experience. They got bouncing the second round every once in a while. The Jets beat them. the Broncos beat them. They didn't always win the Super Bowl. They got to a lot of AFC championship games, and the Chiefs easily still could.

You're not guaranteed every year. I think the thing, if you're the Chiefs, a fan. I mean, I bet Andy and Veacher, it sucks because you get used to winning. You have faith in the future. Why? You have an elite coach, you have an elite quarterback,

you have an elite general manager. Like, Brett Veach has kind of proven it. Remember last year when they won the Super Bowl with all those random guys on defense? Who the fuck you're? pick them. What stops a good NFL coach from leaving a poor franchise for a better one like college? Brown's coach is making Joe Flacco look good, but the Browns are never going anywhere,

and their owners especially with Watson's big cap hit starting next year. Why doesn't he leave and go get a better organization? Because in college, I am not beholden to a contract status from another team. I truly do not care. It's irrelevant. Maybe depending on the way the contract's written, I have to pay a buyout. But in the pros, we're all under the same umbrella. We are all partners.

If I'm at USC, I'm not a partner with Oklahoma. We're not in the same conference. Our businesses aren't connected. I mean, we're all college football teams, but I can steal Lincoln Riley. Right. In the NFL, we all fall under the same contractual umbrella, no different with players.

Why can't, if I'm the Rams, just go sign, pick a player, Devante Adams, off the Raiders. He's under contract. Well, if I'm pick a team that needs a head coach, right? Let's use Raiders as an example. Why can't I just hire Bill Belichick?

Well, he's under contract with the Patriots. So they have rules because of the business model. But they're all in business together. Ultimately, what makes the league and just professional sports leagues unique, especially the NFL. Right? In professional basketball,

the television rights from ESPN and TNT are the big rights, but we also have individual rights with our local networks, right? I was listening to a podcast talking about the history of the NFL. Once upon a time, way back in the day, the Jets had an independent television deal in New York. And then eventually, I forget exactly who it was, might have been under Roselle, again, not a football historian,

but they all got together and said, you know we're stronger as a unit, right? Yet, in the immediate you might lose a little money, but in the aggregate, long view, big picture, we're all going to make more. And they were right. It's not that way in other sports. The Dodgers, the Giants, the Yankees,

whoever, their local market is where they do business. In the NFL, like, think about this. Who's a team that's shitty, right? The Panthers. are a joke, right? They are going to get the same amount of money as the Cowboys, the Eagles, and the 49ers, who have been a part of the biggest games

and the biggest television ratings. Yet when CBS, ABC, Fox, NBC, cut the media checks throughout the year, the same goes to Jerry as goes to David Tepper. What makes it the most incredible business, I mean, definitely in sports, and one of the great businesses we have in America right now. is because they use their group.

It's why, like, okay, you want Sean Payton? Well, technically he's still under contract. So Denver, if you want them, it's going to cost you a first round pick. Even though he took a year off. I actually think it's smart. And that's one issue we have in college sports is there's no unity. Not everyone, I mean, the SEC is united. The Big Ten is united, but not everyone's on the same page.

Just a question on Mahomes. I talked about it earlier. I think it's really just... They're not used to losing. They really aren't. I don't care if things are as clear as day. When you're used to something and then something goes the other way,

even if you're a high-level guy, even if you're a professional, you fucking crack. Why does Tom, after every Super Bowl he ever lost, storm off the field? Like a little cry baby. He's a terrible loser.

Awful. Why he's a winner? Stafansky over Tomlin. Right now for sure. The Belichick, Lee Corso, was pretty cool. Someone just sent me the video. I remember I didn't watch it live. And I got a couple people texting me

if I'd ever been to the Army Navy game. And I went when I lived in Philly. It used to be at the link. I mean, it basically travels between where the Eagles play, where the Ravens play. I don't remember it being in Foxboro, but maybe Kraft got a hold of it. Obviously, it was just there.

Listen, I ran the wingtie in high school, so I have a soft spot, especially, you know, this little pulling guard right here. It was pretty terrible. But I tried. I got tossed one time by Kyle DeVan when we played Vacaville High School. But the pageantry in the pregame a couple hours before is the coolest thing you'll ever see.

If you love America, that two hours is about as cool as it gets. It's truly pretty special. You know, the game, I mean, it's not exactly Bam, LSU. But everything surrounding the game, it's a powerful moment. It really is. It's, uh, I'm glad I did it when I was there. My nightmare scenario is starting to unfold. Bears are five and four in their last nine,

but its obvious fields still can't read a defense. Do you think it's possible the Bears bring Fields? No chance. Fields is done. Fields is not going to be the Bears quarterback next year. Now, if you told me the Panthers thing, never happened and they just ended up with the 10th pick, I would say, yeah, Fields is going to be your quarterback next year.

You have the number one overall pick. Fields, if I was a betting man right now, he's on the Falcons. But, I mean, why win the Patriots? And there are a ton of teams are going to be interested. You see some of the quarter. Who's Minnesota's quarterback? There are countless teams that are just, it happens every single year that you're like, oh, screw it, we can get this guy for, you know,

Colin thought of one, I just don't see it. His contract is going into year four. You have to pick up the fifth year office. option. I think he goes for like a third round pick would be my guess. But I do think he's somewhere else next year. And I still believe Iber flus. The one problem with the Bears is like Kevin Warren, the guy that used to run the Big Ten, he's there now. It's like I don't love what administrators get to take over football. Like what the fuck do you know about football? Like why do you just get to run an NFL team?

That would make me nervous as a Bears fan. Like does this guy get to do it? Like listen, we can argue about some of Ryan Poles his move. It's your GM. You make some bad decisions. Shit happens. Like, listen, Chase Claypool move, all-time moronic move. But Panther move? Fantastic.

Awesome move to get DJ Moore, who's under contract as well. Right? I could argue the Montes sweat. I can see both sides. I wouldn't do it, but maybe I value picks too much. You know, I heard Colin go on this rant about how, you know, the Cowboys got. Gilmore for a fifth round pick.

I'm all for mid-round picks. I think second-round picks, especially when you're not that good. Now, if that pick ends up being 50, listen, I'm not stubborn enough to change my opinion. But Ryan Poles, here's what I know. Ryan Poles played in the NFL. He scouted and worked for Andy Reed for a long time. I, if Iber Flues got to go,

unless Iber Flues wants to be my defensive coordinator, I need to get an offensive head coach. I'll let Ryan Poles get another bite. at the Apple. I don't like when administrators get their hands and things. Feels too much like government. A bunch of people like, what the fuck are you actually doing? I'll tell you what you're doing. You want to get your name and bright lights and get credit for shit that you have nothing to do with. Just sell the freaking tickets, sell the sweets, keep your mouth shut, put on a suit on game day, sit by the owners. Stay out of football.

Another cowboy take. Two-parter, so bear with me. Dan Quinn is an elite coordinator, and it was a top pick for several teams a few years ago. but he chose to say in Dallas, clearly for less money. Well, if you said, John, what do you think Dan Quinn makes? I'd say minimum $5 million. So, yeah, I guess, you know, he might have been a head coach for $7 million, but wait, I don't get any responsibility the head coach has to deal with. I only have to deal with half the team.

You pay me $5 million in Big D? What can organizations do holistically to keep premium coordinators from jumping ship? Pay. I mean, just that simple. Cut checks. Right? If the guy doesn't... But if the guy wants to leave, he's going to leave.

Because let's face it, there is a big difference. Dan Quinn was already rich. Then Quinn's already been a head coach. So Dan Quinn has millions of dollars in the bank. Right? So to me, if he wanted to jump ship, if there's an offer there, it just comes down to this. In football, there are meeting rooms,

especially the coaching staff slash scout meeting rooms. There's a long table, a long round. rectangular table typically. The head coach sits at the front, right? Everyone else sits on the sides, coordinators include. Are you cool with sitting on the side? Or do you want to sit back at the front? Because when you sit at the front, everyone looks at you.

Like a quarterback in the huddle. They answer to you. So that to me is a powerful thing that like once you're already rich, maybe he likes doing this. He's, like you said, he's awesome at it. Now, I'd be interested to see him get another shot. Like to me, Vic Fangio, awesome coordinator.

That's where he belongs. Todd Bowles, probably the same thing. Not probably. I mean, I think he is. Even though he's respectable as a head coach. It's not terrible. But just like Dan Quinn and just like Vic Fangio,

someone would give him a three-year deal at $15 million. It's more money than anyone's getting in like, he'd make more money than a lot of college coaches. Being the coordinator. Also, no need to say, but the Dallas Cowboys are a huge draw for TV rating, so I'm assuming talking Dallas on the pod provides an uptick in streams. Yeah, I mean, I subscribe, like, I'm a big market guy, so I'm naturally going to lean. You know, I watch those teams, but if the Cowboys were 4 and 12, I wouldn't talk about them.

And maybe that would be a problem. Like the reason, the Niners, Eagles, and Cowboys are three of the biggest brands in the league, but they're also the best teams. So it makes it pretty easy. Right? If they sucked and other teams were up top, I just talking what's... I lean to pretty simple,

like try to talk about what I want to talk about and luckily I think I lean toward the right things to talk about. But I'm not a big force. Forcett guy. The Cowboys, to me, are interesting because they're fucking good.

I mean, they're just... They're really good. They've been in two of the bigger games this season. One, one, I guess three of them. The two Eagle games and the Niners game. They're interesting. I mean, they might have the impact.

MVP of the league. They got Mike McCarthy, former Green Bay Packer. The Green Bay Packer, same thing. Massive brand. If Jordan Love had sucked and there are a two-win team, they're just not as interesting. They start winning games. Jordan Love looks good. It's easy to talk about. So I think it's less to me about streams and clicks and first and foremost being interesting. And luckily, for the most part, the big brands, the major players, are involved in the important shit. Right? Like are Peyton Manning and Tom Brady bigger deals than everyone else in the league when they're playing? Of course. They're also typically on the big. best teams.

So it's double whammy. Talking about the Yankee team over and over that's not going to make the playoffs, it kind of bores me. How bad did the Eagles get shafted by the schedule? I mean, last year their schedule was a joke. So, I mean, part of having a first-place schedule is you play good teams, right? I mean, one thing they have is, like, the NFC and the AFC, or the NFC-E's played each other.

It's like the Niners play the Cowboys and the Eagles, right? The Cowboys play the Rams, and they beat them. They play all these teams. I don't think it's chapped by the schedule. It's just part of the way it works. Bills are 6 and 6. The chiefs are struggling. And they beat those two teams.

You don't just look at the end of the schedule. I mean, they get the Giants twice and the Cardinals. In Seattle, who fucking sucks. I was an average, at best, high school wide receiver. But we were always taught to check with the ref to confirm we are on the line of scrimmage. Tony was clearly over the ball. Do NFL refs help out wide receiver? receivers on their alignment. I would assume if Tony did quote unquote check, there was video going

around. He points. He points at the ref, but he's not really even looking at him and he just kind of puts his head down. Right. It's one of those like, hey, how are you doing? But I'm not even looking at your face. So I don't even know what you're saying to me. It was a pretty fake check with the side. But I hear you. Like in that moment, do you know why football coaches in the sport of football has so much in common like the military, because details and discipline are so important. The fundamentals on your footwork in the fourth quarter in December are just as important as they are September, you know, against a shitty team. Right.

The details of pointing at the referee, a pretty, you would say overall in the grand scheme of things, small, minute detail of the sport is just as critical in practice as it is in a preseason game as it is final play against Josh Allen's Buffalo Bills and details of a guy like Jerry Rice or Devante Adams

a guy that just would never screw that up and a guy like Tony who clearly has a lot of talent. A lot we could debate how much talent he has but he's definitely a talented player and something's missing like that Tyree Killed never that would never in a million years ago that would never happen to Travis Kelsey

that would never happen to George Kittle that would never ever like devante smith on his worst day wouldn't make that mistake cooper cup no fucking chance details matter in anything we do and the standard is the standard when no one's looking and when everyone's looking and if you carry that over it's why athletes take if you take everything you know if you take one thing serious you can take everything serious and it feels like tony's like yeah not a big serious guy drops you know my hands whatever maybe he's got bad hands, I don't know. Just wanted to say, I'm a big Titans fan,

but at the point in the season, I just want to watch good games. But eight flags in the first quarter of the Cowboys v. Eagles game, what the F? Players can't even play at this point. This is supposed to be a rivalry looking like an OSHA meeting. Just wanted to see what your take is. Listen, I think officials in general get too involved. Like, just let a game breathe.

Just let it. No different to broadcast. Just let the game happen. And I think sometimes it's very difficult for them to almost take a step back. And the referee, vitriol, people up in arms

has only grown over the years because it definitely feels like they've struggled with just letting things be. Like some stuff's tiki-tack. They're battling downfield. Like not everything's a defensive holding. This is the pros. This is not a high school football game.

let them play there are millions of dollars in the line it's got to be difficult to judge these guys in full speed situations but it's never been worse and yeah

every time you see a flag on the field you're like what is going on but then it goes the other way too when you see plays like where's the flag so it's it's just one of the variables in the sport of football

that listen everyone bitches and moaned, but 30 million people are watching these games. Not until you turn off the TV and stop watching, I just don't think anything's ever going to change. The volume. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends.

Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group, perform. We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel

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