The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 3 and Out - Watson is out, Belichick next, The Raider Way

Episode Date: November 16, 2023

John reacts to the news that the Deshaun Watson is done for the rest of the season and how it will affect the Browns moving forward, there is a report that the Patriots have already made up their mind to get get rid of Bill Belichick but where could he land next, and Antonio Pierce is turning the Raiders into what the team used to look like. Lastly, John answers your questions in this episode's mailbag segment. Deshaun Watson done for the year - 6:30 The future for Belichick - 19:30 What's going on in Carolina - 21:25 The Raider Way - 23:45 Chip Kelly is on his way out - 24:40 Mailbag - 34:05 Follow John on Twitter, Instagram and YouTube for the latest. Check out Gametime - the fastest growing ticketing app in the US, and the official ticketing app of 3 & Out and GoLow -  for tickets to all of your favorite NFL, NBA, NHL, NCAA teams. Concert and comedy show tickets, too. Go to Gametime now to create an account, download the app and use code JOHN for $20 off your first purchase. #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Hopefully everyone's having a good Thursday. And we are recording this. I would say well after the news came out today about Deshaun Watson. Shoulder injury out for the year. We will dive into how that impacts Watson, the Browns, and how the Houston Texans made out like Bandit. as well as going around the league and a rumor about Chip Kelly

being fired what UCLA should do after they rid themselves of Chip Kelly because I think I would agree if that's their move and time to move on. So we will talk some football as well as the Middlecoff mailbag at John Middlecoff.

At John Middlecoff is the Instagram fire in those DMs as well as check out the YouTube channel. We got a YouTube channel specifically just all of our content. We're going to have everything I do here. A bunch of golf stuff up there. A supplement other golf video.

We're going to have a lot going on on that channel. So make sure you subscribe to that. If you're listening on Collins feed, subscribe to a three-in-out podcast. Appreciate everyone listening. Appreciate all you guys telling people about the podcast, spreading the news. Many of you have been around for a long time

in doing that. My day one, so I appreciate everybody here listening. And just excited to talk football. It's a fun time of year, right around Thanksgiving. Time to get fat, eat turkey, and watch ball. We got, it's a great time. I mean, there's some great games. Next week's going to be fantastic.

I mean, Monday night, Eagles Chiefs, Thursday night, Niners Seattle, Saturday, Harbaugh, maybe not Harbaugh, but Ohio State, Michigan. And then I haven't even looked at this as late next Sunday. I mean, I'm skipping this Sunday because I'm already so excited about next Sunday. but we can't ever do that because we have to enjoy football while it's here. It disappears for so long and then we miss it so much. And when we got it, and part of football, it's like, you know this whenever you,

you know, your team wins and they interview your quarterback or your coach are like, we're just, you know, it's a big win, but we're just looking forward to playing Houston next week. Or, you know, we're just looking forward to playing the Oregon Ducks next week. It's like, hey, you're always talking about the next week. And then all of a sudden football's just over. You're like, God, I miss all those weeks. So let's talk some ball. we will tell you about a friend, a very good friend of mine.

Grab your smartphone. And when you grab your smartphone, go to your app store. And when you go to your app store, download the official ticketing app of this podcast. They go by game time. And let me tell you, I hadn't been to a hockey game ever, went to a hockey game this year, hadn't been to a concert in a long, long time, went to a concert this year, hadn't been to a spring training game ever in my life, went to a spring training game. at all because of game time. Anything you want to go to, any sporting event, college, pro,

concerts, comedy shows, they have you covered. Download the GameTime app. Promocode John. Promocode John. When you use the promo code John, you get $20 off your first pair of tickets. Saving you money, these inflationary times, is it transitory? Is it not? I don't know. I'm not an economic advisor here. But I do know if you want to save 20 bucks, just use Game Time. Promocode John. Save yourself $20. I don't even need to thank you. Just hammer it. that promo code. Game time promo code John. Deshawn Watson. The overall headline, absolutely devastating. You lose your starting quarterback, coming off easily his best half of football, helping you get a massive, massive win against a rival of yours, the Baltimore Ravens. You're six and three. You have

one of the best defenses in recent memory. You look like you got a chance, and we've been saying this from day one with this team. They do not need Mahomes or Allen. Obviously, they'd love that. But if Deshaun Watson just plays like a solid player, this team can make serious noise. They can win a ton of games in January. They can give everyone in the AFC a run for their money. They would be a Super Bowl contender with solid quarterback play. They cannot get that at a DTR who they're starting this week.

PJ Walker does not bring that to the table. DeShon hadn't brought it to the table, but having shot, Show signs of life last week. You went, that's all you need. Just a guy to play under control, good football, give you some explosive plays. We can be at anybody. And then the news is broken this morning.

I'm getting out of bed at like 6.30 a.m. And look down and see the Browns tweeted it out. Deshaun Watson out for the year. And my first thought was, Adios Year. And let's start with Watson, who orchestrated a trade, demanded a trade. as all of Texas, every Texas masseuse was coming after him for who knows what. It was ugly.

It was a PR nightmare for the guy. It's something that, let's face it, is going to follow him the rest of his life. When you get involved in something like that, you don't shake it. Not that many women alleging that much stuff. And it was ugly. He had been playing like shit. He was owed a ton of money, kind of become a laughing stock. And for the first time since the time, since the judge,

trade, he kind of had some credibility back. He looked really good, made winning plays. Help them beat Lamar Jackson, the Baltimore Ravens. Doesn't get any bigger than that if you're the Cleveland Browns and Deshawn Watson, given the division you're in, given who you're chasing, given what you're trying to do in the AFC, and then two days later, and let's face it's been a weird season. This shoulder injury had just had an ankle injury, potential concussion, but didn't have a concussion. The injury stuff with Deshawn, it was hard to kind of figure out what was going on the team and him never felt like they were on the same page. Watching today, and I watched a little bit of that press conference, he's in tears, basically.

It sucks for him, and it definitely sucks for the team. But I think big picture, this is a guy that hasn't played that much football. 2021 did not play a game. Last year because of the suspension, six games. This year, because of injuries, only had played six games. So he'll have played in the last three years going into 2024, 12. football games. 12 football games.

You play more games than that if you play it like Boise State or Fresno State in a given season. So the Rust situation is going to be a massive question mark next year. And let's face it, when the Browns traded for him, I didn't think of him as like an injury-riddled player, but he had torn an ACL on both knees, one in college, one in the pros. Now he has major shoulder injury. this is a player now that we have to look at when it comes to availability separate from all the off-the-field stuff and separate from whether he's playing well or not,

can he just be on the field? And I think it's a major question mark. To me, he's an injury red flag moving forward until he plays several seasons and doesn't miss any time. And part of playing that position, let's face it, is availability. When I turn on the Chiefs, who's fucking there? Every single time. Jalen Hertz is like he's gimping around, but he's always available.

Dak Prescott, you better break his ankle. He ain't missing games. Obviously, the generation that I grew up on Brady, Manning, Drew Brees, I mean, these guys, part of what led to their Hall of Fame careers, go to their NFL.com pages. It's a lot of 16 starts, 16 games played every single season. And part of the deal is at this position, and we'll get in from the Brown standpoint,

when you're making this much money, I need to be able to count on you. I do. And listen, no player that's good or is making a lot, they don't want to get hurt. I'm not blaming him for getting injured, but it's a huge part, and I've been part of these discussions

in free agent meetings and trade meetings. Hell, even when I was in recruiting in high school, injury history, you never know. If we had a crystal ball, no one would ever miss on a player, but that's not the case here. And now we know,

and the Browns are in bed with this guy financially for years to come. So he is, I really don't think anything changed from last year to this year and now heading into next year. He's one of the biggest question marks in the National Football League. And then from the Brown's perspective, I've been hammering this home for a while once I dove into their numbers. It had to be this year. It had to be this year. If he's never going to be a superstar player again. And let's face it, that was very much up and doubt.

even with the performance in the second half last week. And this year his cap hit was $19 million. So when you watch the Browns and all the talent on their team, you go, God, they're stacked. Well, of course they are. They're not paying their quarterback very much money. His cap hit is tiny. Well, next year, that number goes from 19 to 63.

For the next three years, 2024, 2025, and 2006, Deshawn Watson's cap hit is $63 million. but who cares about 25 or 26 just think about next year you're going to lose $43 million in cap space now obviously the cap goes up a little bit but not relative to that much money some of these players who are really good in your team

are not going to be on it in 2024 so that gets back to Deshawn Watson the pressure on him next year he can't just be a middle of the road guy they're going to need him to be a top 10 guy if they want to maintain this level of play because their defense isn't going to be a stack Not the case. They don't have the cap space.

So, like, Miles Garrett's not going anywhere. But is Amarri Cooper on the team next year? Are they going to be able to keep both the defensive backs forever? I don't know. It gets very, very difficult as time goes on and your cap hit comes up. You think the Chiefs wanted to trade Tyree Kill? Do you think when they see Tyree Kill the last couple years, what he's doing, they go, we never thought this.

We thought he sucked now. Of course not. They had to make a financial decision. Why? because Mahomes' cap hit gets a lot larger. So you can't pay everyone. You need to resock with younger players. We'll get into the younger players.

They don't have their pick. So let's face it. The Browns went all in. Last year he could barely play. They missed the playoffs. This year they needed it to be good. And it was going well. It had been weird how they got there.

But they were six and three, trending the right way. I probably, you know, if this news had not come out, probably would have picked him this week against the Steelers. You'd be, God, you're going to be seven and three. you're trending in the right way. You just beat the Ravens and the Steelers.

You got at Denver coming up, at the Rams, the Jags, the Bears, at Houston, the Jets, the Bengals. Like, is this an 11-win team? Now I look at a lot of these games like, at Denver, am I picking the Browns with DTR? DTR was a cute story in the preseason, and then we watched to play a regular season game. The preseason and the regular season don't parallel each other at all.

And at the Rams, okay, you can win that game. The Jags, I'm not picking you with DTR, or PJ Walker to win that game? Not saying you can't. You beat the Niners with PJ Walker. Easily could have lost. And I think now, can they win four of their last seven games? I don't know.

I guess they have ten more games. So can they win four of their last ten? And go four and six. I guess it's on the table, right? If you're six and three, you get, uh, not, excuse me, not ten games, eight games. So can you go four and four? Uh, I don't know.

I mean, the Steelers, I got you as a Nell. Denver, I'm going to pick the Broncos. Rams, give you that. The Jags, L, Bears win at Houston, L, and then the Jets and the Bengals. So as you see, like, games that, they're like, oh, the Jets with Deshaun Watson, you're going to win that game. At home? I don't know. I just don't.

And let's face it. When Deshawn requested a trade, so it wasn't like they just traded Deshawn Watson. And any time I've been thinking a lot about this, because I was listening to Coward, talk about these veteran quarterbacks. It's one thing when you hit free agency. Like when Peyton Manning hit free agency His back was all fucked up Drew Breeze once upon a time hit free agency He had an injured shoulder

Right cousins The Redskins they didn't know what they were doing Look at why did Derek Carr and Jimmy Garoppolo The two guys this year that hit free agency Got a lot of money They're not any good anymore Most teams don't trade Sweet quarterbacks right

We're like Russell Wilson got traded Well Seattle had shorted him They didn't think he could play anymore Now he looked good the last couple weeks but he hadn't been very good for a while. Matt Stafford, the Lions literally just wanted to blow it up. And Matt Stafford essentially kind of requested his trade.

So a lot of times when a guy gets traded, he's either requesting a trade or the guy's available for a reason. And let's face it, everything going on with Houston, like it was time, just go your separate ways, get out of business with this guy. They won. And let's face it, they kind of hit a home run. Because part of getting rid of Deshawn Watson

helped them really suck, which led to C.J. Strauss. but it wasn't just C.J. Stroud. Here's what their haul that the Houston Texans got. Because they got three first round picks and several middle of the round picks. In 2022, they drafted Kenyon Green, who started 14 games. His rookie year was up and down, was scheduled to start again this year, hurt his shoulder on injured reserve.

They feel pretty confident from Texan around with some people. In 2024, it's going to be a big year for him, but he should be the starter. Will Anderson this year. They technically had the 12th pick. They traded up to get Will Anderson, who plans on being a building block for this franchise for years to come. Damien Pierce, a running back

in the fourth round in 2022. 1,200 career yards, five career touchdowns, and has started every game he's played in. Tank Dell this year in the third round. He has 34 catches and five touchdowns. Noose flash. Guy's fucking sweet.

That's a good job. draft pick. I also think you have to factor in C.J. Stroud, like I said, because they sucked partly because they didn't have a quarterback, and they reset the whole thing. So it led them to that. And then you have to factor in now, because it looked like could the Browns win like 12 games? Well, the Browns aren't winning 12 games anymore. At best they're winning 10. Who knows? Maybe they go like 2 and 6 down the stretch. This is a pretty big gut punch. Well, you have their first round pick as well this year and a fourth rounder. So the Houston Texans, this is one of the greatest trades in the history of the league.

Because you also have to factor in, you could argue in all of sports, what the guy does on the other side. He got a contract. No one's ever getting a fully guaranteed contract ever again. And this is a great example. $230 million for a guy who now has a broken shoulder and was suspended, you're just never seeing this again. It's never happening.

And it was never happening before him. It's never happening after him. Because in the sport of football, it's just not worth it to tie yourself. to a situation in a sport where guys get injured. It doesn't mean guys aren't fairly compensated. Players love acting like everyone's getting screwed. Like Jalen Hertz or Lamar Jackson, if they had a devastating injury, they're still fine, they're still taking care of. But there's a reason you don't give guaranteed contracts in this sport.

It's bad business. It's simply awful business. And Deshaun Watson is going to be the poster boy for that going forward. And the Houston Texans, a lot like Seattle a couple years. Like, when you want out of business with a quarterback, it's rare that you just get rid of that guy and he goes on to become Steve Young. Like those days feel kind of over.

When you're good, you're on the team. Sometimes it happens in college, right? We saw it with Joe Burrow at Ohio State goes to LSU, becomes a star. But I would say for the most part in the pros, when you're good, usually, and think about this, most of the good players, high character guys.

Teams love being around you. Shaw Watson's a walking, talking red flag? You can't trust this guy out of the building. So the Houston Texans props to them for nailing this one and if you're a Cleveland Browns fan it just feels like same shit different pile man

how do we get so unlucky what did we do to the football gods to deserve this and my answer is I don't know but I feel for you let's fly around the league a little bit I saw I heard coward say this and then I googled it Orlovsky I don't know if he said it on get up

or on Instagram that that Belichick is not going to be the Patriots next head coach. It's already determined where he's going to go. And a lot of people think it's Washington. They're going to trade for him or whatever. Listen, Belichick's never going to be the Patriot coach after this season. It's over. And it's been pretty clear, I would say the last month, like this ain't working. He's not going to be the coach. The crafts are going to do to Belichick, what Belichick did to every player he ever had. Be cutthroat. Like, it just, when you're trending the wrong way, get rid of you. Also, part of being a coach,

you don't get to just be the coach forever. That's not how it works. Whether it's your message, whether you lose your fastball, whether you just need to change. I mean, part of this is like, you just watch the team. Like, Belichick, it's not that he's forgot everything

about defensive football or about schemes or about how to get guys open or who to take out on the other team in terms of the game plan. He just needs a change of scenery. Like change of scenery, and I've been through it. it several times is the healthiest thing you can do. It really is, whether it's a new relationship,

whether it's a new job, whether it's moving. And that could be, you know, to a different neighborhood or could be to a different state. Could be to, you know, a new girlfriend or just breaking up with somebody. Sometimes change isn't just inevitable. It's a must if you want to grow, if you want to get your life back on track. And let's face it, Bill's football life is in fucking shambles. it's an embarrassment right now. So if I'm Bill Belichick, I wouldn't even... Now, I understand him, prideful, old guy, rich. He's not going to tap out,

so I don't expect him to be like, I'm over it. But I do think, like, if he could take a step back, take a deep breath, it's time. This thing is something weird's going on. I do wonder if Frank Reich and Carolina he's coaching for his job, because he took, he was the play caller to start the season, then he gave it to his offensive coordinator,

Thomas Brown, and then he's taking the play calling back. To me, this has crazy, rich owner written all over it. And I think you have to wonder is Frank the coach in 2024. Now, that'd be a lot of money. I would say the owner got off a little easy with Matt Rule because he got another job pretty quickly. Offsets doesn't owe him as much as he would have.

Frank would not get another job in terms of being a head coach that would offset the money that I'm sure he paid him. But I couldn't even blame. Now, I blame Dave Tebber for hiring him. this guy in the first place, I would not have hired Frank Reich, but I can't blame him at the end of this season for firing everybody. Fired the GM, fire the coach, and just start fresh. Now, here's the problem. If you're a Panther fan, what faith would you have that David Tepper would get it right? Right? Think about the first time. What did he do? He went all in on Matt Rule.

Now, in fairness to him, every fucking writer for the athletic and SI.com was writing, Matt Rule is the next great NFL coach. And then he Google his resume. Coach one year in the NFL as an assistant office of line coach. You're like, well, are we sure? Are we really sure? Like, what would tell us that Matt Ruhl is going to be the next great head coach? Because he's a good leader? Because he looks the part in a coaching

outfit. Like, looking back, it's kind of crazy. Like, is he even a good college coach? Had an impressive year of Baylor. Is he going to win in Nebraska? I doubt it. Nowhere near what they think they're going to get. Give some pretty good pregame speeches that go on Instagram, but a lot of if I die, I die speeches go and then you lose the game. So I don't know. I think the Panthers got a lot of issues. And if I'm a Panther fan, I would be ready. If you keep

losing, newsflash, you're going to keep losing for temper to fire everybody. And something interesting I saw. Belichick, they cut Jack Jones the corner, who last year looked like really good. Then he got in trouble. He got benched. And the Raiders claimed him. And then you Google it, you realize, Antonio Pierce coached him in high school, coached him again at Arizona State. And Jack Jones is a very, very talented player. This to me, like the Raiders are getting back on brand. This is what they do.

They take troubled people. And, I mean, the history of the franchise. And to me, Antonio Pierce is everything the Raiders want. He's just got to win now. You win a game like this week where you're a 10-point underdog at Miami. Not a soul's going to pick you. All of a sudden, like, hell, you might be named the real coach, before the years even over.

But you've got to win some real games. And I like the Raiders kind of just embracing who they are. We're renegades. Everyone talks shit about us. We fucking hate authority. I kind of do too, so I can relate. But I'm fascinated by the Raiders. And I think this week, that game against Miami would go a long, long way for Antonio Pierce.

Wouldn't shock me, Antonio Pierce wins this three in a row. They're like Mark Davis just hires him full-time. on Monday. Let's end with this. Let me just get this out of here because people will call me a hater and don't totally blame them. When I got fire with the Eagles, I technically didn't have my contract renewed. Chip Kelly had taken over and brought in a guy that he knew. Now listen, that's 10 years ago. My life is dramatically better and became dramatically better several years after. And it led me to go on to the profession that I'm in now, which I'm much more suited to. Now, at the time, it sucked.

It was, embarrassing is probably the wrong word, but there's some of that. There's some just, you know, pity party that you throw when you're in your late 20s, an ambitious person, and you get fired,

you know, contract not renewed, just let go, don't have a job for the first time in your life. And most people, everybody in my life doesn't work in the NFL. So they, you know, my mom, my dad, family friends, like they don't quite understand. Like, where I come from,

when you get fired because you're lazy, you're late, you're not good. You know, in football, you're hired to be fired. And new administration comes in, you get let go. It's a kick in the dick. So immediately after him, I definitely did not like the guy. As time goes on, I truly don't care. Now, I know a lot of people that I worked with in Philly. Some of them are still there.

Some of them around, they can't stand the guy. So I've never been a fan because I don't think he's a great person. Like, he's not the type guy that I associate with that I like to know. I think once upon a time at Oregon, he was a fantastic coach. But rumors are that he's going to get fired at UCLA. Now, this is not, like, my take right now has zero agenda. I truly believe this. And the record reflects it.

He's 33 and 33 at UCLA, and he's 25 and 25 in the Pac-12. And I think that represents his entire operation post everything that happened in Philly. because I think at Oregon he was a badass and he was an ass kicker I even think at Philly he was all in but I think ever since he got fired in Philly

the players turned on him even the version of the guy that the Niners had has been a mail-ed-in guy got super rich got anointed and has never cared since I don't think he gave a shit

about one game at the 49ers I know I was there I watched it they won two games they had the worst defense in the history of the franchise even at UCLA Like when they win or they lose, I do not think he cares. I think he is completely indifferent.

Lincoln Riley, for example, is having an awful year for the expectations. When they lose, I do believe it devastates him. It really, really hurts. Like Dionne Sanders, when he's losing games at Colorado, I think he does not like it. Nick Sabin, Kirby Smart, all the coaches around the country who are really famous. Ryan Day, Harbaugh, they care a lot about the program. I think Chip Kelly is going through the motions

and I think he's been doing it for years. I've been saying forever, you cannot take this guy into the Big Ten. You're not playing the fucking Pac-12 anymore. You're not playing ASU and before Deion got there, Colorado, and Arizona before Fish got there,

this ain't it. Every team you're playing, even if they're overrated, truly gives a shit. like Luke Fickle, his effort, Matt Rule, his effort. Whether the teams are good or not, they're all in, and their coach is all in. Chip Kelly's not an all-in guy. You had to remove him.

And to me, there's one option. The dude's from Los Angeles. He coaches a style that will translate in the Big Ten. It's Jonathan Smith at Oregon State, who played quarterback there with Chad Johnson in the late 90s, early 2000s, then went on to coach and being assistant for Chris Peterson at Boise and Washington before going to Oregon State. He currently has Oregon State in the top 15. Now there's a decent chance they lose their last two games.

They play Washington this week and then Oregon. But to me, that's a no-brainer higher. He's from Los Angeles. And guess what? He truly gives a shit. He actually cares. Football still means everything to him. Now, I don't think that Chip Kelly doesn't like care as much about football,

but in terms of like the program, the whole thing. Like part of being a college football coach, like Jim Harbaugh, you know, Colin talks about this a lot, is not getting on his knees and giving all the big boosters a circle jerk. That's not his deal. You can do that when you're kicking ass and taking names. Right, Ryan Day, probably doing that a lot, right? Some of these coaches probably doing that a lot.

Sarkeesian, doing that a lot. That's part of being a college coach. Chip Kelly, you can't go 33 and 33, and 25 and 25 in your career in the conference at the school and not do all the other stuff. This is not the pros. It can't just be all about ball. These guys also go to school.

The boosters pay for all this shit. They cut checks for your salary. And he doesn't care about any of that, which he'd get away with once upon a time in Oregon. But in 2023, given his ROI as a coach, no. And he's never going to change. Not with the level of wealth he has now. So to me, I would have fired him a couple years ago,

but he kind of just felt like they gave them some credibility. They weren't a disaster. You cannot take this guy in the Big Ten. You absolutely cannot. So if the rumors are true, it's not just the right move, but now it's about getting the right guy. And to me, Jonathan Smith, I wouldn't even interview anyone else. He would be the guy.

I would circle, I would hire, and we'd go into the Big Ten with Jonathan Smith. Hot take, you know, I, I don't think there's that big a difference between Jonathan Smith and Lincoln Riley. I really don't. Another hot take, the mindset and the way Jonathan Smith thinks about football is what translates to wins. Defense, physicality. Like, Lincoln likes quarterbacks and scoring points. Hates defense.

Like, Jonathan Smith cares about defense. Cares about running the ball down your throat with a quarterback under center. Reminds me a Dan Lannning and do more. Like, those guys are going to translate to the Big Ten. Chip Kelly was never going to translate to the Big Ten. Honestly, Lincoln might struggle if he doesn't fucking figure it out and get a defensive coordinator. But UCLA, let's go hire the right guy now. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care where you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clipper Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way,

this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand-new podcast, the Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music.

The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of taun tons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two.

Listen to stuff to blow your mind on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We're diving into the mailbag. At John Middlecoff is the Instagram. At John Middlecough is the Instagram. Easiest way to get your question answered here on the show? Firing those DMs. Just my name.

Start with Paul. first time DMer. I was curious to get your thoughts on the following. Let's just say, for the sake of discussion, that Antonio Pierce ends up not being the Raiders coach next season. Who are some of the smart, progressive, and creative minds that you would interview if you were Mark Davis? I mean specifically, young up-and-coming coaches like Mike McDaniels.

Here's the problem. They've done that. They just kind of did that. Josh McDaniels was supposed to be this kind of young, innovative guy who already had experience, a ton of championship pedigree, and it backfired. Now, you could say there were definitely red flags, right? The Indianapolis situation.

But I think the Denver situation, people gave him a pass in the sense that it was so long ago, he was so young, and they tried it. Like, are they going to go with Ben Johnson, the O.C. for the Detroit Lions? You know, I don't know if the Raiders are really in position to do that again. He's in Vegas, new arena, they haven't had much success. I think he'd be more likely to kind of go retready.

You know, obviously the best retread of probably, and retread's even the wrong way. A guy that has been a longtime head coach because Andy Reid wasn't a retread. He had just got fired. But like that version of a guy, and I think in recent memory it's been guys that haven't had as much success. Ron Rivera in Washington, I would say Frank Reich right now in Indianapolis. He needs to get the train on the tracks. And he did that with Jack Del Rio years ago, and it worked. They were really, really shitty.

Jack got there. I think they went 7 to 9 next year. If Derek hadn't broke his ankle, they would have won the division. So I think he's going to try to not outthink the room here. Jim Harbaugh makes a ton of sense, right? If Jim would come, if you could afford. him, to me, that's a no-brainer. I think Coward said this.

A lot of people, he guarantees you to win. He's four-for-four. There's no chance you lose. Now, I'm not saying you win the Super Bowl, but that ain't the Raiders bar. You just go back-to-back playoff appearances, back-to-back 10-win seasons. That'd be incredible. That's as good as it gets in Raiderland. So I think Mark either attempts to do that, which I'm sure he's probably sniffing around right now,

or he, you know, that's where I think Antonio Pierce is the safest. Player has been assistant coach now for a while. Players respect them. I also think that can give you a little breathing room, right? Let's just say they go 8 and 9 or 9 and 8. You can give Antonio Pierce and Champ Kelly like three-year deals. You know, Mark's handed out 10-year deal to Gruden, six-year deal to Josh McDaniels.

It's very expensive to get in that game when you don't have a good, when you don't feel great about who you're going to hire. And I don't know, like, I don't know if this cycle is great. Now, you could say that Doug Peterson is the guy last year that went to Jacksonville, like that type coach that has coached somewhere before, that you feel comfortable, that has had a little success, ideally, you know, Super Bowl success. But you just, I don't know, you got to,

you just got to get someone that knows what they're doing, right? And Josh McDaniels didn't know what he was doing because he can't get along with anybody. Some of the stories you hear are like, what? This is crazy. But it's kind of who he is. For the mailbag, can you list all the teams you think need a quarterback

in the first round in 2024 and break down why they need to not fuck it up? Well, I think some of them are extremely obvious, right? The Chicago Bears, they are 100% take. a quarterback. Fields hasn't been reliable and he hasn't been good enough to keep. They're taking a quarterback. The New York Giants taking a quarterback. I think that Green Bay Packers taking a quarterback. The New England Patriots taking a quarterback. Now here's the thing. I'm recording this.

Draymond Green just got suspended five games. Now if you think what he did was a little egregious, okay, but five games, what are we fucking doing? I think Adam's still. I think Adam's still, easily is the worst commissioner of my lifetime. Like to me, he runs circles around Manfred and Bud C. League in terms of incompetence. But the media, like, kind of vibes with his politics and really likes them and he texts a lot of them. If Adam Silver would have taken over the NBA when David Stern did in the mid-80s, I think the NBA would have gotten bankrupt.

I think it would have failed. It never would have became what it became. But I guess ultimately what I'm saying is, like, part of the NBA tanking is a big part of that culture, and it's been a huge part of the culture on now. Adam Silver's watch. That's why they've lost half their audience. And the NFL is just not part of the culture. It just is not.

Coaches won't do it. Players won't stop trying. It's impossible to half-ass an NFL game. Maybe you can quit. When I say quit, like half-ass it and the fourth quarter of a big blowout. But you can't just walk into a game and not try. You'll get hurt. So you can't, New England stinks, the Giants stink.

All these teams stink. But they can randomly win a game. They can win a game they shouldn't win because they're gonna keep trying. So Belichick ain't day ball. None of these guys are gonna stop. LaFleur, it's just not wired in these guys.

So I could say what they need to do to not fuck it up, not win games. Because I'm also not a proponent of tanking in the NFL. But I do believe once you establish you're awful. Like the Patriots, the Giants, you guys are awful. Awful. I don't think the Packers are any good.

You're not any good. losing once you get past Thanksgiving. Like, there's no point in winning. I'm never a proponent of like, oh, just tank the season. Tank to get Caleb or tank to get Lawrence. I mean, both those two guys, I think we all agree a little overrated.

Suck for luck, that one nailed it, right? That was well worth it. But these other guys, remember, tank for two, so you can't play that game. The other thing that differ in basketball is like, yeah, Victor Wimbi Yama stays healthy, he's going to be pretty good. Like if Shaquille O'Neal's in the draft,

Like, yeah, it's worth getting the number one pick. Like, you kind of know. Like, LeBron James, you know, Anthony Davis. Some of them, they vary on their greatness. But you can't argue that that guy's going to have a major impact. And quarterback, you never know. Like, God, I mean, Zach Wilson and Trey Lance went second and third in a draft. Neither guy can play dead into Western.

Think about that. Huge Chiefs fan. It's tough not to see the struggles of the offensive. It's tough to see the struggles on the offensive side of the ball. Nick Wright says they are basically still the same team, but after 9, 10 weeks, the offense is still struggling. Even more so in the second half of games. What do you think is causing the rift from last year when they arguably had a worse receiving core? If I remember correctly, was it last year or two years ago that Mahomes went on the crazy turnover streak?

I think it was last year. But might have been two years ago when Tyreek was still on the team. Like last year, none of it matters. They won the free Super Bowl. And to me, the most important thing they have for them, like, okay, your offense is going to struggle some games. Maybe all season. Who cares?

You got a really good defense, and you got Patrick Mahomes. I like your chances. You're going to be favored against everybody in the NFL, especially if you have a home field advantage in the AFC. You will be favored in every game, right? Obviously, big test Monday night against the Eagles. You'll be fascinating to watch. But your defense is legit.

Like, part of having a great defense, Usually don't see like, hey, 85 bears had the second rated offense in the league. That's usually not how it works. There's a little bit of a give and take. Travis, getting a little older, deeply in love. And again, he's just, it's a little harder to be dominant on offense. When you've drafted some young wide receivers, I kind of like the rice guy. I'd say Skymore hasn't blossomed into probably what they were hoping.

Their probably second best skill guy beside Kelsey is a running back. and Coach Reed's a passing coach. So if Pacheco played for Kyle Shanahan, he might lead the league in rushing. But it's not really Andy's M.O. as a play caller, you guys are going to be fine. Like, would I put my life savings on you guys to win the Super Bowl? No.

Is there a chance you lose in a playoff game? Of course there is. But if I'm you guys, do I like my chances? Let's not forget. A lot of the Patriot teams over the years, like the 07 Patriots, did not win the Super Bowl. A lot of the teams that had some flaws, especially in the mid-teens and early on before, obviously, Brady became Brady,

like sometimes you win, it's not your sexiest squad. Right? The sexiest squad you guys had didn't win the Super Bowl. You could argue that first year when Mahomes won the MVP, in the year you guys lost to Tom Brady, obviously you lost the two offensive tackles, but my nose is itching. It's funny, when you get really high standards, Right, when you're, we talk about this in baseball, like Yankees or Dodgers, winning a hundred games is kind of irrelevant.

It's like, do you win playoff series? That's why when the Yankees miss the playoffs, everyone's ready to burn the building down. When you're the Kansas Chiefs, to me, they're the only team in the NFL that Super Bowl or bust. They're the only team in the NFL that when the season ends and they don't win the Super Bowl, you literally say it was a disappointment, right? If the Eagles go to the Super Bowl again and lose, it's going to suck. And I say this all the time. Same thing with the Niners.

Like they were not Super Bowl or Bull. bust coming into the season. Last time I checked none of the, Siriani, Jalen Hertz, Brock Purdy, Kyle Shannon, none of these guys have won them. Joe Burrow, Zach Taylor, Sean McDermott, Josh Allen. It's fucking Andy and Mahomes

are the new Belichick and Brady. Just like Nick Sabin or Kirby Smart. There are two coaches in the country that is a national championship robust in college football. Not Brian Kelly, not Harbauch, not Ryan Day, definitely not Lincoln Riley.

it's Kirby and Nick Saban. It's a disappointment if you're not playing for the national championship and winning it. No one else can say that. If you make the playoffs, if Dan Lannie makes the playoffs at Oregon, incredible accomplishment. Same thing with Washington, same thing with Texas, same thing with Florida State. Honestly, Michigan or Ohio State, now there's pressure on them to win a game. Definitely hardball, probably more than Ryan Day. But I don't know, man.

You just, they're only, like, only Tiger can be disappointed when he doesn't win a major in his prime. No one else really can. John, why you hate Ohio and Ohio State? I'm from Columbus, live near Michigan border. It kind of pisses me off when you shit on us in Ryan Day. I've always appreciated the Ohio State program, like a lot of the players. Whenever I see A.J. Hawk on TV with McAfee, like A.J. Hawk. Like Dante Wittner, love Dante Wittner.

Dustin Fox, my guy. I like watching C.J. Stroud. Like a lot of your players. I just hate Ryan Day. Can't stand them. I can't stand looking at them. I root against him as a coach. So I don't necessarily hate your program

because historically your program has stood for what I've liked. Defense, tough running game, just beat the shit out of you. You guys have a high-level football program. You could argue over the last 30 years the best program in the country, right?

You'd say over the last 10, obviously Alabama. Over the last 5, it's Georgia. But over the last 20, it's probably Ohio State. When you factor in draft picks, I mean, there's just a dominant program. But I just don't like your coach. I'm a Harbaugh guy, born on third base. I think Urban's a clown. Though, listen, I think Urban's one of the biggest D-bags ever.

Big-time coach. Ryan Day, a big-time coach? I don't know. I think something about him I don't like. Sometimes you just don't like people. That's the other thing. This is sport. You don't have to like everybody.

I fucking can't stand the Lakers. Don't like LeBron. Who else do I not like? Don't really like Deshawn Watson. Let's find an NFL coach I don't like. Kind of indifferent on a lot of NFL coaches. Just don't like some people. What's wrong with that?

I don't like Patrick Cantlay on the PGA tour. Zander's starting to bother me. I mean, sometimes you just don't like people. It's part of life. It's not like I think that much about it. it. I just know when I see Ryan Day on my television, I root against them. And most times, it's not,

but I'm also not an idiot. Like when you're on TV against 90% of your opponents, like I know you're going to win, so I don't stand there like rooting for you to lose because I know you're not going to lose. But when you play Michigan, I'm rooting for Michigan. I hope Michigan beats the shit out of you.

It's a factor. With the Harbaugh situation, does NIL make NCAA sanctions obsolete? Who cares if they lose a few scholarships if they can pay players. I don't see why the NCAA isn't obsolete as we speak. What do they bring to the table? Why does college football need the NCAA?

A little more complicated in college basketball because they run and own the NCAA tournament. But in college football, they don't run the conferences. They definitely don't run the playoffs. Obviously, they govern the conferences, but why do you allow them to? Right? How does that make any sense? it's not one of those things where I can complain about taxes all day long. It is what it is.

I'm not going to be the lone guy that gets out of it. Right? Now, I can manipulate it, 1099 guy, have some good ride-offs, make a little, you know, it's part of life, but you're never going to get away out of it. I can't just leave, say, you know, I'm going to live in Scottsdale, Arizona, but I don't have to follow any of the rules from the U.S. government.

That's never going to happen. But if you're the Big Ten and the SEC, why don't you guys look at each other and just say, tell the NCAA to kiss our ass. We're not listening to anything you say. We don't care about you. So Mark Amarrett, I don't even know if he still run. Whoever runs it in all of his moronic loser helpers,

you can shoot us emails, you can pretend we give a shit about anything you say. We simply do not. And what control do you have over any of us? You don't, have any. So, adios, see you later. We don't need you to negotiate television contracts. we don't need you to play the games

and we definitely don't need you to run the playoffs. So get out of our way. See you later. That's what I would do. So I don't think, I don't know. I think the NCAA is in trouble in general. Do you think there ever was a college football team

that would beat an NFL team of their same time period? You know, we had this argument for a long period of time. Had it a lot in basketball when some of those tanking teams and everyone's argument was always like, well, they're all pros. And I remember Sam Hinky had a team of like, well, I don't know if a lot of these guys are pros. Now, the argument in the NFL, the shittiest team still is.

53 guys are all professional athletes. And let's just pick some of the sweet teams in college football in my life. Because to me it would have to be a complete team. That LSU team was incredible on offense. And I think they could definitely score on NFL teams with Joe Burrow, Justin Jefferson. who am I missing? Justin Jefferson, Jamar Chase, Clyde, Randy Moss's kid.

But I don't know defensively if they would be at the same level as some of those like peak Miami teams, maybe some of those peak Ohio State teams, some of the peak USC teams. Now the difference though is like if I have one of those peak Miami teams like Ed Reed and all those guys

or one of those peak USC teams in the mid-2000s with Matt Liner and Reggie Bush or even the Maluga team is probably a little better on defense. those guys get bigger and stronger as they get older. So when you're a really good player at 21 or 22 and you're going to be a pro, you're going to be a just stronger athlete at 25, 26. Now, I'd have to think about some of the awful teams.

I remember a running joke when I was at college that USC could beat the 49ers. And this was after the 49ers run and kind of ended, Mike Nolan became their head coach. and they were awful. I mean, they were competing. They did have the number one pick. They got Alex Smith. And Pete Carroll refused to leave USC to take the job.

So, you know, I would have the take of, depending on who the coach was, I have to really look at the roster. I think there would be a chance. Basketball, 100% it could happen. If you get the right college team against some of these teams over the years that literally were rolling out like random average G-leaguers, like no pros, 100%. percent. Football a little more difficult, but I think it'd have to be the perfect team, probably one of those Miami teams, where literally every guy is a first or second rounder. Or some of those Pete Carroll USC teams where it's like, their defense is elite.

And they'd have to play an awful NFL team. But if you think about it this year, like, let's pick an awful NFL team, the Bears or the Carolina Panthers, like they're not getting beat by a college team. You've got to be worse than them. They're the giants. Right. Now, the Giants with Tommy DeVito, like Tommy DeVito,

it's not like he was lighting anyone up in college, right? But if you give the Giants Tyrod Taylor or Daniel Jones, they're beating the best college team. Like last, I guess, two years ago, that Georgia team, basically every guy in that Georgia defense, I think 14 of, 14 out of the, more than 11 of their starters got drafted on defense over a two-year period. Right?

I think 14 guys. In all starters, and the majority of them got drafted in the top couple rounds. So could that team go toe to toe with like that defense of two years ago when it had everybody. Like last year, obviously they had Jalen,

but two years ago with the Jalen and the Deans and Quay Walker and the dude, bulky took with the number one pick. I forgetting his name. Is his name Walker? No, Walker's this on the Packers. What's the dude's name on the Jacks?

but like that whole group could they give this version of the Indianapolis Colts and Bryce Young and Frank a run for their money just offense first defense? 100%. If you don't think that you're fucking moron

like all those guys went to the pros immediately start. I mean Jalen Carter's like an impact player. All the other guys, starters. I mean, what's his name? The middle linebacker Dean for the Eagles who injured now like second year starts for the Eagles.

Team that was just in the Super Bowl. I mean, these guys, it's not just we're starting on nobody teams that's the other thing like who do you start for do you start on the shittiest team in the league or do you start for like playoff teams and you start looking around like oh they're starting a lot of playoffs hell the eagles have like four of them

the eagles have literally like four of them Packers have a couple of them so I think matchups but overall win a game I'd have to really dive into it that's a good question I hate the argument from like media nerd like no way

it's not possible it's not possible the ball. Shut the fuck up. Do you think Trevor Lawrence will succeed in the NFL and win a playoff game for the Jags? Longtime Jacks fan really needs something. I'm losing hope for the Super Bowl. Also, what do you believe is wrong? Do you believe it's Press Taylor, the O.C., the O-line?

Trevor's poor decision-making. I think on Sunday, when you guys played the Niners, I think the Niners were beating every team in the league. They were coming off three losses. They're coming off a buy. Everyone is laughing at them. They're about to fire their defense. coordinator, they add Chase Young, that team showed up to annihilate somebody.

Because they were embarrassing for two straight weeks on defense. Cousins, who still leads to the NFC and touchdowns, he's got 18, but he looked like Payton Manning. And then what Joe Burrow did did to them, I think it was just a perfect storm. Now, your offense to me, it looked pretty good before that in most games beside Kansas City, but your offensive line got beat like a drum, but they could not block any of those guys. Now, here. Here, Here's the other thing. When you get hit as a quarterback, I don't care if you're Tom Brady or if you're Baker-Mayfield.

It's going to rattle you. I feel like Trevor Lawrence really gets rattled. You hit Patrick and some of the other top quarterbacks, Lamar. Listen, you might cause a turnover or whatever, but they've come right back. Trevor, that, once they really started hitting them, definitely down the early in the second half, is like, what is going on here? This doesn't look like some elite player. It's why everyone was kind of shitting on them.

So you have to get better. when you are when you're not playing your best game and things aren't going right. To be a good golfer, what makes guys on the PGA tour is not that they can shoot 65. It's when they're spraying it all over the place,

they can still shoot 73 or 72. Right? Like, it's what makes a great pitcher. When you don't have, when you don't know where the ball's going, I can still give you five innings. I can still give up just two runs and get us to the bullpen.

Right? It's not when I'm humming. and I'm a pro athlete, whether you're a tennis player, whether you're a golfer, whether you're a football player. Especially if you're a talented one, you're going to look good.

What happens when it's not going well? It's why most of us that aren't athletes professionally, you've got to handle that business-wise, right? When shit's hitting the fan, can you keep your head up? Can you plow through it? Can you figure out a way to get to the other side of the river? Or do you sink?

Do you just wave the white flag? And I think that separates a lot of people, whether it's sports, whether it's business, whether it's life. It's because it's easy to kind of tap out or just go into the tank. And I think that's one thing Trevor Lawrence clearly has to improve on. A lot of talk about the Steelers hanging on for dear life. Being super lucky and just not good. But what if this is just who they are?

The roster on defense is constructed with guys who make big splash plays, and we lead the league in turnovers. We have a two-headed monster. Two-headed monsters sounds like I'm not the biggest Naji Harris guy. I think Warren's a lot better. But is it possible that this team isn't lucky or no good, but actually performing exactly how it was designed? I saw my guy Cam Hayward,

who our producer here James, works with at Omaha, and he's obviously come on the show, and I see a lot of his clips on my social media feed, and he kind of went on this little rant, and he was kind of pissed off. He's like, everyone keeps saying we're overrated, we win ugly. He's like, what the fuck? because of the whole point of this sport.

It's not to put up 40 points. It's not to run for 800 yards, not to have seven sacks. It's literally you play a game, do you win or do you lose? In pro football. College football is a little bit because of rankings and, you know, the playoffs only get four teams. It's about how you look. It does not matter.

So if the Steelers this week play DTR and win the game against the Browns, let's say they win the game 17 to 15. It's like, God, they barely got by the Browns with their backup rookie quarterback. Do you know what doesn't matter how it looked? Because they'd be 7 and 3. They'd be like, well, we're going to the playoffs. Now, where I do think it comes into play, like, are you going to win a playoff game that way? Maybe they will.

Like you said, maybe this is not just who they are, but they're comfortable winning those games. One thing I know about, I'll give you an example, the 49ers. The 49ers, if they're going to win, win by like 20, 30 points. But they've been in three tough games this year and they've lost them all. It was ugly. You just got to find a way. Just win by a field goal. Win by one point.

Just figure it out. Just dig yourself out of the hole. And they can't do it. The Steelers are comfortable in that environment. And I think in football, in the NFL, in college football, in Power 5, in the playoffs and your big games, you got to be comfortable in that environment. Right. And ideally, would you rather win by 10 than 2?

Of course. But they are, they're very comfortable doing that. and Cam's whole thing was who cares why does it matter it would matter if we were three and six and we were losing ugly like God you could have won all these games

but they fucking won the games and that's what I talked about earlier in the week it's like the greatness of Mike Tomlin it's the whole point that's why he never has a losing record because he never loses those spots there's another question on Trevor Lawrence

listen I think the jury he's got a lot of pressure on him that he's playing in these big games, he's going to be in the playoffs again, and he's going to be matched up against really good quarterbacks, just like last year. And he was so bad in that first half.

And then he turned to, you know, he flipped a switch, and he threw all those touchdowns in the second half, and they beat the Chargers. So to me, it's all going to come down to how he plays in these bigger games. That game, he got his ass kicked. But the whole team did. You know, to me, it's one thing if it's just one guy, but I just think he's got a lot in the last.

line. And if he wants a contract extension after three years, he better really flip the switch. To me, if he doesn't flip the switch, you're not paying him yet. A good player, I'm glad to have them. But this notion that every guy has to get paid at the earliest possible moment, no, it's not the case. As a devoted Seahawks fan, I must say that I like the strategies we have implemented the last couple years during the draft. However, I am curious to hear your opinion regarding the quarterback position. It is quite evident that Gino is not the solution. I agree. If you were John Schneider's position with what seems like a young talented team, what course of action would you recommend? I would say this. I think you're heavily evaluating all the college quarterbacks. Clearly like

Drake May and Caleb aren't going to be available, but the next three to eight guys. So would we be willing to trade up? Would we be willing to take one of these guys in the second round that we view as a starter while we have Gino on the team so there's not super amount of pressure of him to start right away then I think you canvass the land of who else is available right? Would we trade a first round pick for Kyler Murray?

Probably wouldn't do that after going through it with Russ. Kirk Cousin's going to be available. Probably doesn't make much sense off in Achilles. It's really the draft or nothing. And I think that they probably like they did last year, just like they will do again this year, I think they will evaluate those guys very, very thoroughly.

and I almost expect them to draft a guy. I really do. Okay, adios. Thanks for listening. And we will be back with a podcast after the big Thursday night game, Ravens. And I'm going to say Ravens and the Bangs. Very, very excited. Joe Burrell, Lamar Jackson.

Let's buckle up. Big AFC North Showdown. See you soon. Adios. The volume. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comments. comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer

Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all,

embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying.

Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw,

unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes,

follow at Clifford and at TikTok's podcast network on TikTok. This is an IHeart podcast, Guaranteed Human.