The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 3 & Out - Best Of - Patrick Mahomes contract, Top NFL venues, Should Ryan Poles get an extension

Episode Date: August 3, 2024

John dives into the conversation surrounding Patrick Mahomes and his current contract with Kansas City after seeing other QB's sign contracts with a higher annual total (6:42). Later, John gives you his top 5 NFL venues (19:53), and lastly the 2023 trade that the Chicago Bears made with the Panthers and how it's been the gift that keeps on giving for the Bear and he gives his thoughts on if Ryan Poles should be getting an extension based on this trade alone (33:14). Follow John on Twitter, Instagram and YouTube for the latest. Check out Gametime - the fastest growing ticketing app in the US, and the official ticketing app of 3 & Out and GoLow -  for tickets to all of your favorite NFL, NBA, NHL, NCAA teams. Concert and comedy show tickets, too. Go to Gametime now to create an account, download the app and use code JOHN for $20 off your first purchase. #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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And a little thing we like to do, the best of the week. And we had a fun week. Training camp is off and running. Everyone is in pads. We even had a game that was delayed because of crazy weather. I guess that's what happens in Ohio in the early office. August, but we had a lot going on this week because we had new contracts with quarterbacks, and I dove into Mahomes' contract, and he was asked about being underpaid.

Turns out he makes more money than anyone when it comes to actual money, so we'll talk about that. I picked my top five NFL venues, top five NFL atmospheres. Had some tough omissions, but pretty fired up about my list. And Ryan Poles, when you really take a deep dive, into the trade that exchanged Bryce Young number one pick last year for what the Bears received

and actually still get to receive even in 2025 I do think it has a chance to be the greatest trade of all time long way to go on paper right now with how many starters they've got it's already an elite trade but I believe it easily could be one of the best trades in the history of sports and I'll tell you why, but like I said, best of the week. And let's dive into it. But before we dive into football,

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I've told this story before, but I'll talk about it a little bit again because I think it applies to Mahomes. and when I left Philadelphia in 2012 to move back to the West Coast to do college scouting because Daniel Jeremiah, who is obviously on NFL network and the lead draft guy, took over for Mayock when he took over the Raiders' GM job, worked for the Eagles. That's how I first met him.

And when he got hired with the NFL network, I essentially begged for the West Coast job. I wanted to get back west. And luckily, most people in the building who had longer 10 years than me were West Coast people. And that obviously worked as an advantage plus. I was relatively cheap labor. And when I got back, I had to live somewhere. And at the time, most of my friends, a lot of people I went to college with were all living in San Francisco.

It was booming because all these sales jobs with all the tech companies like Oracle and Facebook and Apple and Google and you name. and it was much easier to get a job in the city that did not exist three or four years previously. So it was a lot of fun. And I wanted to move to San Francisco. And a buddy of mine through a family friend had just bought a place. And I moved in with him. And this guy played baseball in college for an Ivy League school and was really, really smart and went to work in finance. and started making big cash very early in his like right after he graduated college.

Ivy League elite, just a dude's dude, and brilliant. And when I moved in with him, he was changing jobs. And he was going to work for a different firm like VC. I don't know the exact like the way you would describe his industry, but it was moving and shaken with cash investing in shit. And one thing he was big on is he fought for a title. He wanted to be like a vice president at this firm. And that was a big deal to him.

And then like six months later when the bonuses came out, he's like, I kind of got screwed. I didn't realize when I fought for this title, you know, in my previous jobs, I saw all these VPs making big money and I didn't put enough emphasis on it. And he's like, the reality I learned is a title and words shaking hands to create a deal are completely meaningless. I would rather have been called an intern and doubled the bonus. And I think you see that a lot with these quarterback contracts. All these things are flying and all these numbers are flying and they're really hollow. How many people listening to this right now that work in any industry that know if you're trying to land a deal, if you're working on a deal, words are pretty meaningless.

Until something is written on a contract and both sides have signed, nothing really matters. And I think you see with these quarterback contracts, these huge numbers, and I've been saying forever, nothing is more meaningless than average per year. You know who is obsessed with average per year? The agent. Why? Makes them look good. And I don't blame them.

That's their job. The better they look. The more clients they get, the longer their book of players grows. And the more money they're firm and they make individually. That is their job. but in terms of teams, the general manager, the head coach, and most importantly,

the contract negotiator and the owner, what are they obsessed with? Cash flow. How much do we actually have to pay this player? Like I said, Jordan Love in his contract is making $75 million before Christmas.

He gets a $25 million payment now. He gets another one in October, and he gets another one the second week of December. So we get $75 million before the end of this calendar year. That's money now. And anyone knows money now is more valuable than money in two years. Hell, we've just seen the last three or four years, historic amount of inflation. You know, you always want more money up front.

But Patrick Mahomes was asked recently about the contract he signed. And a lot of people when he originally signed it thought he was crazy. Because he signed a 10-year contract. people are like, no one does that because you want the ability to re-hit free agency. And he just said, listen, I'm happy for all the other guys. I feel very comfortable.

This is not verbatim what he said, but just kind of giving you the Clifton version. I feel very comfortable with where we're at. We've made some adjustments to it. And I also feel very comfortable with the group that I work with, meaning Andy and Brett Veach. And let's face it,

most players and most agents are just using these teams, and rightfully so, to just get as much money as humanly possible. They don't really trust the GM or the owner. But Patrick Mahomes has learned, and like any human being, obviously most of us, our numbers aren't $45 or $50, or $55 million a year. But if you get into business with people, and the older you get, the more experience you have, you've been in business with people you don't really trust, you don't feel that

comfortable with. you're not dead set on buying into the future with these people. And then sometimes you get in bed with people, you trust just unequivocally. Like you don't even hesitate to go, yeah, what do you need? I'm in. What can I do? And it's less about the money and more about the belief

and big picture of where we're going to go because this is going to work. And when you trust and believe in people, it's easier to make more money over the long. long term. Now Patrick Mahomes don't get it twisted. He will make, and I heard Mike Floreal say this, between 2023, so last season through 2006, more actual cash than any player who's under contract right now. And that includes all the new contract sign. He will make $215 million over the next four years. The only guy who's remotely close to him is Joe Burrow, who's a couple million

dollars less. That's actual money. Not fake numbers on a contract, not numbers that can change if you have a catastrophic injury. That's real cash flow. And listen, that's never how these contracts are going to be reported. And unless you dive deep and are obsessed with this type stuff, you could argue it's kind of irrelevant how much cash these guys, whether they get $30 million this year or $46 million this year. But when it comes to the best player in the league, and let's face it, the most important player currently in the NFL, Patrick Mahomes, he's the highest paid guy in the league when it comes to actual dollars. Right. So you can have all these fake numbers. You can say this contract's bigger than that. Tua got more guaranteed money on paper than Patrick Mahomes. None of that means

anything when one guy actually gets more cash. And I think one thing Patrick Mahomes learned that only a small percentage of players ever get to go through is he learns that i should trust and you read and brett vich with everything because the more i win the more money i will make the rest of my life like joe montana in two thousand twenty four is still really valuable tom brady before he retired signed a three hundred and seventy five million dollar contract with fox to broadcast games no one even knew if he could do it. And they almost gave him $400 million. Why?

Because he's widely considered the greatest player in the history of the sport and he has six, seven Super Bowls. Would he have signed that contract if he had two Super Bowls? No, he would not have. Because that number wouldn't have been that high. And I remember talking to a player who's going to be in the Hall of Fame one day. And he was part of the negotiations for one of the CBAs. And he's like, I don't think most people understand.

we don't make that much money in the playoffs. And that's true. If you make $10, $15, $20, $30 million during the regular season, once you get to the playoffs, it's slotted by round. Meaning if you're the star pass rusher or the star quarterback or the star wide receiver, you make the same as the 52nd guy on the roster. And it goes up by the round. But you do realize when you win in the playoffs,

like Mahomes and Kelsey have done, like Peyton Manning has done winning Super Bowls, like Eli did win. winning a couple Super Bowls, obviously Tom is the best example. And now Patrick Mahomes is doing, it gives you value in perpetuity. You are always valuable from a marketing standpoint. And that's what Patrick Mahomes has with the Kansas Lee Chiefs. So if on paper, he looks like he's making a little less.

If people talk about why his contract, he doesn't give a shit. Because he knows two things. One, the most important thing, the actual money coming into his bank account. And two, he works with the best in the business. where if you were a player on just a random team, even if you like the coach and like the GM, why would you ever quote unquote take a discount or quote unquote not fight for every penny?

You know at any moment those guys could be fired, at any moment they could try to replace you. It happens all the time, literally with every team. And Patrick Mahomes has seen firsthand. One, they'll invest in the team when a guy gets really good, right? Like Chris Jones, ended up taking care of them.

And when they have to make a big picture risky move, they've proven that they can make it work. Tom experienced this for 20 years of Bill Belichick. Listen, it was some of the things he did when the news broke, you're like, Bill is nuts. And then it tended to work out. And they tended to always be in the AFC championship game or the Super Bowl. And Tom obviously was a huge part of that

and then benefited and continues to benefit because of the success they had. So I think the one life lesson I've taken forever is until it's on paper, nothing matters. And titles, you know, and the perception of something can be a little overrated. You can call me an intern all day long if you're paying me $10 million. Who cares? The NFL seasons right around the corner. We'll be breaking down all the offseason storylines on the Colin Cowherd podcast.

My best takes. Guess like my buddy Nick Wright, check out the Colin Coward podcast, part of the Volume Network, available on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined.

And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment.

And the next, we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be.

Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J.

And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack.

So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you. sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history.

Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, top five NFL venues. I'm fascinated by this because I think college, the NFL gets the bad rap of the atmospheres

aren't that great relative to Saturdays, and it's true, because there's nothing like LSU at night, there's nothing like Penn State at night, there's nothing like 110,000 people at Michigan, you know, when Bama's rocking, Texas and Oklahoma, Oregon at Autism Stadium, like the NFL doesn't have that. It's a communal experience, but I've been to a lot of NFL games. They're fun, but some are better than others. And when you look at the top venues, like SoFi Stadium, never been to a stadium. even remotely close to that.

And I've been to Dallas. That was always kind of the Cream de la Crem, but I think SoFi has laughed at. Obviously, it's brand, it's just, it's spectacular when you're inside. But no one would ever say like, God, LSU at night, SoFi Stadium at night.

Clearly, you're not saying that. The Vegas Stadium. Awesome. Atmospheres, a bunch of random people flying in all over the place. But the NFL does have some sweet atmospheres. So I just ranked my top. Top five NFL atmospheres. And I left a couple out. Part of it is this team sucked for a while,

but I think Denver historically has been pretty sweet. Mile high, great football town. Seattle had a stretch there with the 12s, which was as good as it gets. I remember the Saints played a Monday night game there, and like Drew Breeze couldn't even hear, couldn't even function. And the Saints, I think they got beat pretty bad. This might have been late in Breeze's tenure.

have been like 15, 16 range. But I think Seattle's come back to Earth a little bit. The game two years ago with Russell coming back with Denver was pretty awesome. But if they ever got good again, that place is going to rock. Starting in five. I remember watching a game there last year when the Niners played them and thinking, there is something special. And I've talked about this before, like the Coliseum where the Raiders used to play in Oakland,

Candlestick, just these old decrepit stadiums that are just kind of football. And when you go there, it's really just about drinking beer, getting loud, maybe eating some crappy hot dog, but it's about football and football only. And I think Cleveland still kind of has that. And part of the reason I put them, they're good now. The team's competitive.

But there's nothing like hearing the fans hit like the, I don't even know if it's 10. or something, but it echoes throughout. That place week one against the Cowboys is going to be nuts. I was listening to Vrable, who was on with the part of my take guys, and he said his dad took him to a game in the dog pound. I don't know. He was like junior high, and he was like,

that's the first time I'd ever seen weed. And people just getting blasted. And there's just something special about football in Ohio, that stadium, not great. They're clearly probably going to build a new one. I saw Andrew Barry wants to build a dome. I got to push back on that one. I understand why he would, analytical guy, numbers geek.

You can control a lot better if there's a dome. When I think Cleveland, when I think Baltimore, when I think Cincinnati, like Kansas, I think outdoor cold. I hope, if they ever do it, they do not do a dome. but who knows. So I go Cleveland at 5. This is my only new stadium. But I think this place,

the best opening in the NFL, is when everyone's doing school. That place freaking rocks. And that stadium, I've never been there, but it looks awesome on television. It pops on TV, day or night. And my buddies that works for the Eagles, that went there for the Super Bowl said the place is badass.

That atmosphere in Minnesota, and it's always been good, but I think for a newer stadium that can't be cheap to go to, is just pretty sweet. It has like a Big Ten vibe to it. It has a collegiate vibe to it. And I think a lot of times you've seen it with Vegas, you've seen it with the Niners,

you've seen it with SoFi, seen it with the Cowboys, you kind of lose that with the glitz and the glamour, which is understandable. because you price out the diehard guy that's really going to yell. I got news for you. When I go to a game and I pay a lot of money for tickets, I'm not standing up all the time.

I'm just kind of sit there enjoying it. And listen, I'm not proud to say that, but there is something about people that used to be able to afford pretty good seats. It just makes the place louder. The faster you get to a wine and cheese crowd, the less likely you are to have a crazy atmosphere. It's why these top three stadium atmospheres all have something in common. They feel old school.

And number three is the Bills. I think the Bills Mafia, the games in November, December, and January, the snow games, it just feels pretty special. It feels like something that in 10 years, as all these places have new stadiums, including the Bills, with club seats, with boxes, and I'm not saying this place. I went there once. the team was pretty crappy.

And so it wasn't, the atmosphere wasn't like what you would get with the Josh Allen Bulls or the Jim Kelly Bulls, bills, I mean, it's just the last of a dying breed. There's just something unique about a small town city that has this NFL team, who's now good,

the snow, I just think that it's just awesome. I mean, it pops on television. You just, Find yourself rooting for those people who the bills mean so much to. It's one of those franchises that you think of Chris Berman. If you're my age and growing up watching, you know, his breakdowns on ESPN on Sundays. But there's just no one circles the wagons like the Buffalo B.

Number two, and you could have gone 1A and 1B. I think Kansas City and Arrowhead. I've been to a bunch of games of Arrowhead. I was going when they weren't as good in the late 2000. but I think a little like Buffalo, and we'll see if they get a new stadium. It's just an old school stadium. It ain't that nice, and when you get there, it's just about football. And now these people are going to the games.

It's in the middle of the dynasty. I was listening to Edelman's podcast, Part 2 with Ernie Adams. And they claimed the best game atmosphere on the road they had played in over the dynasty was the 2018 NFC championship game against Patrick Monoms. His first year starting. He was the MVP, and they beat him in overtime. And they both said that was the coolest environment as a road team that we had ever experienced. And this was a team that had done it all.

And this is Ernie Adams, who has known Bill for 50 years and was on all the Patriot teams as a right-hand man. So they're not just saying this. It's a special environment. And I do believe that it has something to do. You just naturally lose it when you upgrade the stadium because it prices people out. Even though to get to a Chiefs game now, even in the older stadium, is more expensive than it would have been pre-Andy Reed. But still, it's going to be way less affordable when you start adding all these incredible club seats,

you quadruple the amount of suites. It just changes. I saw it with Candlestick and Levi Stadium. It ain't the same. It doesn't mean it's not fun. It doesn't mean it's not cool to go to. a big game there, but it's never going to be this good. So Buffalo and

Kansas City, two places that obviously are desperate to upgrade their stadiums, enjoy it while you can't. I mean, truly. I saw it with the Warriors. When I started going to Warriors games early on in the Steph Clay era at Oracle, which is right next to the

Coliseum, I would argue one of the shittiest areas in all of America, I would put that stretch, 66 and Hagenberger up against any in America, of just if you blew it up tomorrow, not only would no one care, no one would notice,

and it would look very similar. But those games at Oracle plays freaking rock, man. And it's not the same at the new stadium. How can it be? It's not the same crowd. So Kansas City and Buffalo. And it's why there are certain places,

Fenway Park is this, Wrigley Field is this, obviously Lambo is this. that we'll just battle through the test of time. And even as the world changes, even as the economics of stadiums change, it doesn't feel like it matters at all. And in the next 10, 15 years,

Kansas City, Buffalo, Cleveland, we'll have some sweet new stadium more than likely. Look like Minnesota or Dallas or SOFI, you know, their versions. And it'll be like, remember what Arrowhead was like? Remember those games at Orchard Park in that old crappy stadium? Remember those games? I mean, listen, most people in my life growing up are Niner people.

And a lot of their memories are a candlestick. Remember those games with Joe Montana and Steve Young and Jerry Rice and even Jim Harbaugh at Candlestick? There's something nostalgic about them. So I've never been there. I think I was supposed to advance. I ended up going to another city and someone else went. But they've been good for 30 plus years. The stadium is so historic, and it's just, it's just an awesome place.

It's just, it pops on television. Everyone knows when you say the word Lambo exactly what you mean. Whenever you see someone on social media or whatever, I got the chance to go to Lambo field and just go to, I'm not even a Packer fan and just went to the game. Obviously, the Lambeleap is something that just is very special in all of football. football at any level. And it's just really, really cool. And the Packers, because of their success, I've been to a lot of games against them on the road. I've seen them sell out against the Raiders.

I've seen them sell out against the 49ers. A lot of you that if you've been to a game that your team's played the Packers, a lot of Packer fans. And this is a team that plays kind of in the middle of nowhere. And it's not some big, you know, metropolis, urban major city. and they feel like one of the stalwarts of the NFL. And I think obviously a big reason is because of the quarterbacks, because of the success, but you could also argue it's because of the staple in Lambeau Field. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right what you need to be.

Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking.

What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s.

To be clear, 84's big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really?

Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I would say Ryan Poles tenure early on was Rocky. He made a trade that was pretty embarrassing when he traded for Chase Clay. pool, but I don't care who you look at. It could be Bill Walsh, Bill Parcells, Bill Belichick. Everyone makes bad moves.

Obviously, when you don't have a long resume on the job as the boss and you're new to a job, a move early on your career that's bad is magnified, right? When Belichick would make shitty moves in 2016, no one cares. It's like, well, I've won four Super Bowls and planned I won a couple more. I'll see you in three more AFC championship games. Right. So Ryan Poles, I would say, has, to quote, dumb and dumber, totally redeemed himself. Because I think there's a chance that the Bears trade with the Carolina Panthers

will go down as the greatest transaction in the history of American sports. I looked at it today. It is insane. And it got me thinking because yesterday when I was recording the podcast, I'd already recorded the main part of the podcast. We were starting the mailbag. News broke about DJ Moore, getting a massive extension.

I mean, the dude had 96 catches, 1,300 plus yards and eight touchdowns with, I mean, multiple different quarterbacks. Most of could not throw very well. Like what? DJ Moore's a stud.

He was part of the deal. And listen, anytime you make a trade, even if it's for a great player or a big draft day trade, there's luck involved. I mean, let's face it, there is luck involved in most transactions.

I heard a story when I was in Tahoe about Joe Lacob, the owner of the Warriors. Well, he accumulated his wealth in the investing venture capital world, and he was partners with some guys. And they were one of the first big investors into a little company called Google. And at the time, Google, I don't know if they were quite a company based out of a garage but they were closer to that than what they are now. And they were not some can't miss home run. And from my understanding, that transaction netted them well over half a billion dollars.

And the investment, a couple million dollars, whatever it was, it's an all-timer. And even when you hear these stories, like even if you believe in what you're doing, it's hard to think about the best, best case scenario. And I think when you look at the Chicago Bears, it was an easy trade for them to make because they were essentially getting three first round picks. They were swapping to nine. They were getting the following year's first round pick. And they were getting DJ Moore, which Ryan Paul said, we valued as a first round pick, which I would agree with them. Because when they traded for him, now they gave him an extension.

He was already under his second contract. So he was a cost-controlled player. I mean, they just gave a guy an extension. He has two more years on his deal. So they're getting out ahead of it. They also received two second round picks, one that first year, and then another one coming in 2025. But if you look at it from the Carolina standpoint,

they traded for Bryce Young. That's their asset. They got Bryce Young, who I've heard is having a pretty solid camp. And listen, I'm not trying to act like he's got no shot, but if you watch him as rookie year, the size, even if you think he can get better at playing and they do a better job coaching around him, It's just hard to envision a guy, $5.09, you know, buck 75.

Coffee weighed in a 200 at the combine. I think that was minimum 15 pounds of fake weight. So I'll give them 184 to be some high-end top 15 player. But the Chicago Bears now officially with extending DJ Moore, here is what they netted from that trade. When they traded back to nine, they actually then did another trade with a fill-ing Philadelphia Eagles, just from 9 to 10, and selected the guy, clearly they would have taken at 9. And they got a fourth round pick, which they used this year. They drafted Darnell Wright, who started 17 games for them at right tackle.

I'm not acting like he's the next Lane Johnson, but based on his rookie year, is pretty good. And anytime you get a starting tackle, that's a win. Well, obviously, because of a – they also had a second round pick. last year, which they traded up a couple spots and got Tyreek Stevenson, who started 16 games for them across from their all pro pro bowl corner Jalen Johnson. So they got a starting tackle and a starting corner. That's just year one. Then because the Panthers couldn't have been any worse, it led them to get Caleb Williams. And let's remove the corner, the right tackle, and DJ Moore. there is not a team in the history of football.

NFL, AFL, UFL, XFL, USFL, any European leagues who would trade Caleb Williams for Bryce Young. The Panthers, obviously last year, would have taken Caleb Williams if he had been eligible to come out. We all said it two years ago. If Caleb Williams could have been in that draft, he would have been number one overall pick. so they got an inferior player if it was just one to one. But the Bears already accumulated right tackle, starting corner, DJ Moore, and now Caleb Williams. But because of that trade with the Eagles,

going back one spot, they had an extra 2,024 fourth round pick. And they took a punter who, listen, anytime you draft a kicker or a punter, great unknown. Because a lot of undrafted guys, if those positions come on to be great players, this guy was the right guy winner.

So who knows, but if they get their starting punter, their starting quarterback, starting right tackle, starting left corner or right corner, depending on the day, what angle you're at, and DJ Moore, but we're not done yet. We're not done. The trade is not over. They still have a 2025 second round pit coming. I think if most of us were being objective, no bias, right? not a panther fan, not a panther hater, not betting on it or whatever, if we say, where are the Panthers this season most likely to be drafting? One through 10, 11 through 20, or 21 through 32. I think if we did a poll, one of those political polls, but one that actual people that you know participated in, I think the overwhelming majority of people would pick in the top 10. So if you're drafting in the top 10, that means your second round pick is usually pretty good.

I was watching Giants Hard Knocks the other night, or I guess last night. Well, part of sucking and having a top 10 pick means you draft high in the other rounds. So it's a great benefit because now granted, they use their second round pick to get Brian Burns pick 39, but they had another second round pick. I have to go look up where it came from. But my point is when you stink, this is why I've always defended when good teams have a rough year or two drafting. You do know it's difficult drafting pick 28, which also means you're drafting at the end of every round. So you are getting the shittiest player in theory in each round.

It is difficult. It is way easier to be drafting 7th and then carry over through the rounds. You should have a good draft. If you don't, that's on you. it's why once you're good and you have good drafts like Veech, like you get extra credit. Because you're not exactly swimming in the deep end on that. Most of the talent is off the board by the time your selection comes around.

So listen, there's luck involved in this. Even though based on what they were getting, it was so much they had to say yes. I would say this could not have gone any better. And it could not be going that much better. if Caleb Williams becomes a top 10 quarterback, I would say regardless of these other players, you could argue it's one of the great trades ever. If Darnell Wright is their right tackle for the next eight, nine years, if DJ Moore continues to produce as he's been producing his entire career with random quarterbacks,

if Tyreeks Stevenson continues to start at corner, one of the most important positions on the field, if the dude they draft in the fourth round is just their punter. And if they get anything out of this 2025 second round, I don't see how it's humanly possible to do more in a trade. I think this will easily go down as the greatest trade, not in NFL history, in American history. Maybe there have been more transcendent trades. Babe Ruth, right, was once traded.

Joe Montana was trade. the bigger individual names at the time were traded, but just in terms of a totality of what you accumulated for the number one overall pick, Ryan Pohl should get an extension off this alone. He really should. I mean, I don't know how it gets any better from a general manager. I really don't. If I was an owner, I would extend them right now just based on looking at the information we have based on the trade.

And that's got to be one. And David Tapper, listen, he's in the invested world. He's an all-time stock trader. You're not going to win them all. But it's tough when you swing and whiff on something like this. This one is going to be hard to shake. It's easy to go, well, it's water under the bridge. You know, it's sunk cost.

Not sunk costs are all the same. Not sunk costs are all equal. It's one thing if you walk in, you're like, God, bought a bunch of chicken from Costco. It's all rotten. Whatever. He spent 50 bucks. Remodel your whole house, have the roof leak, and ruin your entire floor. A little different. I would say they don't parallel each other. And I would put this under one of those disastrous sunk costs. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy.

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