The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 3 & Out - Can't miss prospects in the draft, Draft prep, Woody Johnson on Aaron Glenn

Episode Date: April 7, 2025

John opens the week talking about the difference between the NBA draft and the NFL draft and how the NBA tends to have "can't miss" players in the draft, but the NFL is a lot more of a crapshoot. Next, John continues the conversation with the NFL draft and discusses all of the prep that goes into trying to learn about the players as people before the day of the draft. Lastly, John answers your questions during this episode's mailbag segment. 5:44 - Can't miss prospects 25:08 - Woody Johnson on Aaron Glenn 32:44 - Mailbag Follow John on Twitter, Instagram and YouTube for the latest. Check out Gametime - the fastest growing ticketing app in the US, and the official ticketing app of 3 & Out and GoLow -  for tickets to all of your favorite NFL, NBA, NHL, NCAA teams. Concert and comedy show tickets, too. Go to Gametime now to create an account, download the app and use code JOHN for $20 off your first purchase. #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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I'm John. This is Three and Out podcast, and we're here to talk a little football. And that is what we will do because the draft is now 18 days away. We got two full weeks this week and next week. And then the following week is the draft. Thursday the 24th, the first round. Very, very exciting. It's obviously a huge, huge weekend

for the National Football League, for all your teams. Because nothing creates more hope than drafting players. It's exciting. It's fun to talk about. And it's not far away. So one thing we will try to do

over the next couple weeks is do a draft-related topic every single day. And that's what we will do. So obviously, the Masters is week. We will dive in either tomorrow, or the next day, big, big, master's podcast, gambling heavy. Might do Wednesday or, yeah, record on Tuesday for Wednesday,

just so we had some of the press conferences the next couple days. I've already dove pretty, I mean, I get very aggressive gambling on this golf tournament. So we will dive into that from a draft king standpoint. We will also do a mailback today at John Middilkoff firing those DMs. And you guys know the drill. other than that. Any master's questions for later this week at Golo Pod? Fire in those DMs.

I have a separate Instagram for golf only. And obviously, there's just a huge week, biggest golf tournament of the year. And it's kind of a slower NFL week with everyone kind of just bunkering down, draft meetings, and it kind of quiets here for a couple weeks before the tornado of the draft.

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Last minute tickets, lowest prices guaranteed. Had a pretty good day Saturday. Played golf, got home, turned on Duke Houston, watched that bad boy, an all-time meltdown. But like anyone who's a sucker for players in college, whether it's basketball, football, obviously football. I love watching elite prospects, right? And Cooper Flag looks like a can't miss player. Now, there is no such thing. I say this all the time in the NFL as can't miss. But I think in the NBA, it's pretty clear like, worst case scenario, this guy's going to be really good. Like, there's obviously a big difference between like

LeBron James and John Wall. But like John Wall is pretty good in the NBA until he started getting banged up. You know, Derek Rose, Anthony Davis, Kyrie Irving. Like, it's pretty clear. Like, this guy, I don't know if he's All-A-Famer or like a 10-time All-Star, but more than likely he's going to be a really good player. In the NFL, it's very difficult. I mean, we heard about Trevor Lawrence for multiple years. He's the greatest prospect since Andrew Luck and Peyton Manning and one of the best prospects of all time. And I'm not trying to, like, play Monday morning quarterback here. But I remember thinking like, it's a really talented player, obviously an

excellent prospect. I don't know. Is he going to be like some all-time great player? I'm not just saying that now. I remember thinking there was like, this guy's just a can't miss. And then all my friends in the NFL is like, best prospect that I've ever evaluated. And you see it hasn't gone well. Now, there's a big difference like Cooper Flagg could

go to whatever team. In the NBA, in basketball, because there's only five guys on a court, one individual, if he's a great, player, Steph Curry, Joker, Janice, whoever can have a huge impact and dictate the terms. In football, especially as a quarterback, you know, there's a lot of variables. You don't pick the players in the NBA. If you want to, you get to do that.

You definitely don't call the plays. The coordinator does that, who a lot of times is now your head coach. You're very dependent on who your skilled guys are, how good your defense. is. There are way more variables in football, but like, usually the cream rises and it's clear. Like, these guys are really good. These guys are kind of questionable. And you're watching Cooper

Flagg, you're like, God, this guy, there's a lot of hype. Justified. Baller. Now, you know, I'm not a Duke hater, but didn't mind the meltdown, though I kind of wish on Monday night they were in this game. It would make it a little more interesting, but props to Houston. It got

me thinking, like, in this draft, which I would say has a I don't want to say a negative cloud over it, but there is a hype on a draft when you have great players near the top. And usually that's quarterbacks. I would say last year's draft is one of the more hype drafts of this century.

Why? Because it was discussed that, you know, I think we were all kind of blown away that six guys ended up going, but it was pretty clear like four or five. Guys were probably going near the top 15. And then it said a record six guys went in the top 12. and quarterbacks drive the day. Like, I would be, I think most people, if you pulled around the NFL, you'd go, Travis Hunter and

Abdul Carter, it's going to be hard for them not to be good players, right? And I would agree. Like, I have a hard time seeing a guy that can bend like Abdul Carter can. Again, obviously assuming health. And Travis Hunter, with his skill set of being able to do multiple things, of not just be able to figure it out and be a high-level starter in the NFL. Now, there's a big difference of like, we feel really good about this guy as a starter. And over the course of six, seven years, he makes a pro bowl or two.

And I'm not talking about the fake pro bowl when half the people drop out. I'm talking about like, no, you were one of the best players at your position. You're a no-brainer. And just like, yeah, this guy was a really good starter and he made a pro bowl. Like, that's always on the table with NFL draft picks. Like, Abdul Carter, some people think, like, not quite physical enough. Not what I saw, but I know that has been debated in some draft rooms. One thing you hear with Travis Hunter is like, God, he's pretty skinny.

And there was this viral video of him at the showcase. I like Prime called it the showcase of him running this route. Like, yeah, he's got skinny ankles. But here's what I'd say. It's like, number one prospect, went to college. I watched him ball. He's going to be good. Now, how good if he does become a wide receiver, which is very possible.

Who knows how this is all going to shake out? It's hard to be one of the best wide receivers in the NFL. Why? because it is a star-studded group. And at Corner, it's just a tough position to play. We have seen a lot of guys that have focused on that position that we thought were like can't miss high-level prospects. You know, struggle.

It's difficult. One, you're covering star players every single week, and it's just a naturally a hard position to play. So, you know, the draft this year because of Cam Ward, and now Travis Hunter after the Colorado showcase, is the betting favorite to be the number two overall players. So by all signs, I mean, Cam Ward is going to Tennessee. I don't know whether it's going to be Travis Hunter.

Maybe they're a little nervous with the Abdul Carter injury. But if Travis Hunter goes to, I think that brings into question, like, what are the Giants going to do? Would they take Abdul Carter? I mean, they're pretty heavily invested in the defensive line position. That would be a huge win for the Patriots if Abdul Carter fell to them. But what would they do if they don't take a quarterback at three? do they take Shadour? And that's where these questions kind of are happening all around the NFL.

And it's the one cool part about being in these draft rooms. And every team does it a little bit differently. I mean, heavily, all 32 teams over the next couple weeks will be meeting. Now, not all meetings look the same. You know, like I know the Chiefs, as I was told over Super Bowl Week when I was hanging out with some of them, there's not a team in the league that watches more tape as a group getting ready over the course of the spring. than us. Like they spend a lot of time as a scouting staff watching tape together. And their coaches get intermixed in and out. But it is, you know, it is Veach and the scouting staff really

driving and dictating the terms when it comes to picking the players. And some teams are very, very coach dependent, right? The coaches have a lot of juice. And the assistant coaches, obviously the coordinators and the position coaches have gotten heavily involved in this process over the last month. And they are coming in with opinions that might differ from the scouting department. Like, think about it. If you have, like, the, if you're a college scouting director and you have loved like 10 different guys all season long, and you have been evaluating them, you've gone into

their schools, you've met with the players at the senior bowls, at the All-Star games, at the Combine, like, you've spent a lot of time. The coach is kind of helicopter in at the Combine. kind of, but they haven't really watched any of these players. The big misconception, head coaches, you know, like Andy Reid is pretty dialed on, dialed into what's going on in the college landscape. It's just games are on constantly. You could convince me that half the coaches in the NFL during the fall don't really know at all

what's going on in college football beside like a couple of the best teams and watching a game here or there. So when, and if I'm saying that about the head coaches, think about the court. who are just deep into not just their position coaches or groups, but their units, the pressure of calling plays. And then the little time they do have Thursday, Friday, Saturday, assuming they're at home, like you kind of got to spend it with the wife. And if you got kids, and most of them, you know, if they're under 50 years old, the kids are going to be relatively young.

Like you're not that locked into college football. So they come in and who are a lot of their friends, other coaches, you've got to be very careful. And I've been asked this for a long time. like, who's the least trustworthy person in a college building? Well, it's not even an argument. It's the head coach. Well, why is that?

Well, because if I'm a head coach, what do I benefit from? The more guys get drafted high as possible. You get a lot more credit as a head coach than like, well, he had a great team full of high character guys, but two guys got drafted, one in the sixth round, the other guy in the seventh round. Or it's like, yeah, kind of a questionable squad. Guys got in trouble. Not sure, you know, who's who you'd trust.

But four guys in the top 50. What's a better headline for that university to tweet out and Instagram out? So they push heavily on leaning on the glass half full side with guys. That's why you've got to be very careful about the off season because what's going on? Well, the players are out of their building. They're not dealing with them on a daily basis. Plus, they're not playing in any games. so emotionally they're a little more, I would say, calm

and you are less likely to get the truth and more of a positive spin. Where some of your best information comes, and this is where the coaches have nothing to do with it because their own focus on their own team, is during the season. When they just had a two-game losing streak and you run into the coordinator or the head coach

on like a Tuesday or Wednesday in their building, they're going to shoot it to you straight, like, yeah, this guy won't listen, he's showing up late. He's not working hard. We thought the last couple games, he's been turning it down. Then you get him right now in April. It's like, I'm telling you, man, this guy hasn't even scratched the surface. I know there were some buzz about him not being that tough.

BS. He was dealing with a knee injury. It's like, well, you didn't tell me that when I talked to you in October, after you had just got rolled two weeks in a row on ESPN Saturday night prime time, you told me you can't win with this guy. you don't trust this guy so this is where in going on the pod with colin last week he said what are you really doing over the course of the next couple weeks like do guys rise and fall and rising and falling to me has always been a little bullshit because like you rise and fall during the season right you're playing well you're moving up you're playing bad you're either stagnant because we

still love your upside or you're falling right But once the season ends, most of these teams don't allow you to change your grade. So whatever the date is, let's say January 15th or January 30th or January 20th, your grade on the player is set. Why? They're not playing any more games. Now where you can change stuff is like, hey, we've gotten more character information. We've done some more digging.

We've heard this, that, and the other. And then that can affect like, yeah, we don't really trust this guy. But it's not based on because, yeah, we don't think he can play. Like, we all watched them, and we don't trust some other stuff. Now, where it gets weird is when the assistant coach, the quarterback coach, and the coordinator, start ganging up on the scouting staff like, yeah, we disagree with this. We love this guy. Sometimes it works.

You know who banged the table for Brock Purdy? Brian Greasy, who actually just quit football because he was tired of grinding so much. Don't blame him, I'm already rich. I mean, to work 90-hour work weeks is insane when you, you know, get into it, like in your 50s. like so I got a lot of respect for him to even attempting it. But like I don't think Purdy, I think there's a decent chance Purdy's not drafted if the coaching staff doesn't get super involved. And the 49ers are a very, very coach-influenced team.

Kyle Shanahan and his group have a lot of juice. So like, and obviously last pick in the draft, it's not the end-all be-all either way. But, you know, I just think all these teams are trying to figure that out. And the other thing you're going to hear a lot about, is these 30 visits. Some people call them top 30 visits. That would obviously insinuate that these are your top players.

And people in the NFL often push back against that because it's not your top 30 players. You just are allotted as an NFL team, 30 prospects are allowed to come to your building and spend. When I worked in the NFL is 24 hours. Maybe it's a little more now. But you basically spend the day. Maybe you fly in at night. You stay at the hotel. a guy like me, someone on the scouting staff, or maybe a coaching staff,

picks the guy up from the hotel, let's say 637 in the morning, come to the building and you basically spend all day with the squad. You are meeting with the coaches, the head coach, the coordinators, the position coach, probably the GM, the scouting staff, the trainers, maybe the wait room staff. And depending on, like, I could bring a six-round pick because I got question marks on their character and we really like the player. or I'm definitely bringing some guys that I plan on drafting in the top couple rounds.

In my experience, the owner meets with that guy. I know sometimes you read, owners are at the combine. With the Eagles, I've never seen that. I know Jeffrey went, I think, when they were going after Carson Wentz, but for the most part, you know, most, you know, Jed Yorks, the Cronkies,

like these guys aren't going to the combine. But if they're, they have an office at the building, and it's like, yeah, we're bringing the guy that we might draft with a 14th overall pick, I think it would be kind of gross negligence for that guy not at least to talk with him. And again, they're not breaking down like, you know, what coverage were you doing on this play?

It's more just probably talking to him as a guy. And then any troubled player you really want to get to know him. Now, I do think this is where, you know, having a good feel for the youth. Because I'll never forget, like, when I did it, and I used to, for a couple of years, years. I was a big part of picking guys up, bringing them around, walking them around the building. You just spend a lot of time with them and take them from spot to spot and then, you know,

go to the lunch or dinner with them in the city with some of your coaches and get a free meal, which, you know, when you're making 40 grand, it's like you'd never complain about. But I do think that you got to be careful. Bobby Wagner was a guy, obviously a big time player in college, but he was at Utah State and he came in on a, on a, visit. I remember he had a Ninja Turtle backpack. And I remember thinking like, this guy's going to next Ray Lewis. You think Ray Lewis rocking a Ninja Turtle backpack to an NFL team? And you got to be careful about certain, like obviously it didn't matter at all. I mean, sometimes young people that are just not quote unquote your generation or whatever. Not that my thought on that had any

impact on him as a guy. But I just remember thinking that. And I remember after like a couple years later, He's one of the best players in the NFL. Some dudes just like different shit. So you got to be, the one thing that's a tell-all to me always is, and you don't know, like, as fans, but for coaches and for staff, when you've been, like, to me, if I'm Travis Hunter, I'm clearly have no red flags, right? I'm just a good guy, high character, like, great player. I can show up to your facility. Let's say the Giants bring me in or the Browns. Like I can wear whatever I want sweats, normal clothes, Colorado gear.

Like, it doesn't matter. But whenever there's a guy that has like off the field questions, like red flags, and he shows up in a suit, you're like, that's kind of the problem. Like, what are you trying to hide here, buddy? And they're on their best behavior. It's like, bro, just admit or be honest about whatever happened. And I remember Lombardi used to say this all the time back when he was a podcaster. Like, we already have all the answers to the tests, so we're not looking for your opinion on it.

Like, when we asked you a question, like, we already know what the answer is. It's just going to be interesting which route you go. Now, it does feel like at least near high in this draft, there aren't a lot of question marks off the field with, I mean, Shador, Cam, pretty open book. Abdul Carter, Travis Hunter, Will Campbell, Genty, Mason Graham. You know, every once in a while, you had a class with like, yeah, three of the top 10 prospects from major question marks. And now, you know, a couple years ago, Jalen Carter, you bring him in. Like, there's not much to figure out as a player. Like, yeah, he's fucking awesome.

It's like you're just spending all the time to get to know the guy. And with a quarterback, like the one thing with Cam, Shador, and even the rest of the crew, intelligence and football intelligence and comprehending football is really, really important. Now, you do hear these stories of like, I remember Mahomes with the chiefs. There was another guy recently. God, I forget who it was. But like, he got asked a bunch of those questions with an assistant coach. Or no, the head coach is peppering him with questions about what you know or what you don't know.

And they give you like, you know, six or seven plays and they expect you to regurgitate it. It's basically impossible. where like there have been stories. I remember Matt and Aggie did this with Mahomes, where he like gave him the answers before. So even when they threw him off. But there was another quarterback too. I don't know if it was Josh Allen,

but it was someone like that. But like that type stuff's funny. But for the most part, these are pretty serious. So yeah, I mean, when you see these top 30 visits, sometimes people have said that like sometimes you bring in guys

that you're not interested in to throw people off the scent. I don't think with only having the ability to talk to 30 people, people, you can really afford to do that. Like, if you're bringing in a guy, you're interested in them. Now, maybe there are individual examples on a yearly basis where a team brought a guy in and they weren't interested in them. It was like to make a team think you wanted them so they would jump them so they could take some other player.

I think that would be pretty complicated to try to execute because you would also have to assume you know what these other teams are thinking and it's pretty secretive time of year. But what I think a lot of times happened is maybe you bring a guy in that you're interested in. And then when they leave, you're like, yeah, we're not as interested anymore. And that's, isn't that just natural business? I mean, I'm sure a lot of people listening, if you have different roles and whatever company you work for, maybe you run your own company, maybe you're in a hiring position at a company. Like you meet with people and you go, yeah, pretty likable guys, don't think it's going to fit here. It doesn't mean you're right. And maybe that guy would have fit. But if you're in a

position where you can dictate whether they come or not, you're like, yeah, I don't, I don't see this one working. I don't think you're incapable. I think you can go on to have a good career with some other company, but it's probably not going to work here. I think that happens a lot in football. Once the coaches and the GM and the owner really meet with the guy, they're like, yeah, I don't, really see it.

And obviously, anytime the owner either wants a guy or is out on a guy, it doesn't really matter what the team thinks. And speaking of an owner that, you know, clearly is very involved. is Woody Johnson, I mean, the pushback on the NFL PA grades, which, honestly, I don't even have the energy to quite figure out. Like, I don't even care. You know, to give an owner an F, I think for these players, like how often are they really around them? I think it's more just like the vibe in the place. But when Woody Johnson is quoted at the owner's meetings saying that Justin Fields is a winner, which in college, that's true.

obviously in the NFL that's untrue. But looking back on his draft, I might be screwing this up a little bit, but it was basically, it was clear that Trevor Lawrence and him were the top two guys, and they were the best two prospects in that draft. It's like, bro, your team drafted Zach Wilson. Now, he was not around as much.

His brother was involved. But Dan Campbell had some comments, which I think at this point in time, like when Dan talks, it's crazy how you can go from, I don't want to say laughing stock, but let's face it. I mean,

early on, a lot of people made fun of Dan Campbell. And I think a lot of times, too, you know, the media, uh, overeducated group or places a huge, huge emphasis on like,

do you feel like a highly educated individual, super intellectual? Like, they lean toward those guys. That's why they love Brandon Staley early on. They're like, this guy's so smart. It's like,

coach his way out of a wet paper bag. I don't give a fuck how much he knows. Send the limo to that guy's house on game day because I want to make sure that he's there so we can kick his ass. And the Dan Campbell types are usually not going to be like, you know, immediately the media's favorite. They lean toward like nerdy guys. And I would say several years later now, I would say Dan Campbell's respect level just

with everyone around the NFL is pretty high. So like when he talks, and I've watched a lot of his press conferences, like Dan Campbell's a really, really high level guy. And it's pretty obvious, like, his whole thing isn't just out-tuffing you, even though it's a huge part of his coaching ability. It's no different like the Harbaugh brothers, like toughness, toughness, toughness. Like, these guys are sharp, man. They kind of know what they're doing. They might do it in a little different way, but I don't sleep on them. And he had some comments that basically Aaron Glenn's guy that if Aaron Glenn can't turn around the gym,

Jets, no one can. And I totally, like, understand back in your guy and believing in your guy. And clearly, Aaron Glenn's a really impressive coordinator. I mean, what he did down the stretch with me and you playing defense was awesome. Hard to not root for Aaron Glenn. But, like, let's look at the lion situation. When those guys got to take over, it doesn't really look like the Ford family was dictating everything they do.

And it's like telling them to do this or not do that. And so Aaron Glenn and his coaching staff could be awesome. It's really hard to overcome Woody Jones. And he's not going away. When you think meddling owners, I would just say like he kind of feels a little, I'm not saying this is purely apples to apples here, but it does feel like there's some Dan Snyder stuff going on.

Like just a little too involved and knows fucking nothing about anything when it comes to football. So if Aaron Glenn can turn this thing, around, it would be an incredible accomplishment. It really would. Because it's not just building a football team. It's overcoming the owner. And if the Jets are kind of the new Washington football team commanders, because of ownership,

like I don't think it's random. These last 15 years have been pretty ugly because you don't overcome that guy because he's just always involved. He's always giving you football opinions, which it's his team. It's his prerogative. He can do whatever he wants. but like you see this guy's quotes like bro let's just just stay on the sideline my man collect the checks and enjoy the fight for the jacket is on in augustum get in on all the action

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And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, name? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it.

We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. And, well, we were thinking I'm originally, calling it one of the early

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Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite on Humor Me with Robert Smygel and Friends.

Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman helped make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends

on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis, and I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on clay. Genshin win.

I mean, she went down at three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lerner Rabakina. is arguably the best player in the world right now and actually can win on any surface because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open.

Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing. human potential. Either way, the podcast Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, let's get to a little thing. We like to call the Middlekopf mailbag at John Middlecough, at John Middlecough is the Instagram. Fire. those DMs and get your questions answered here on the show. Let's roll, baby.

Can you explain why Burrow is viewed in higher regard than Stafford in terms of being in the top three to seven quarterbacks? Outside of mobility, it seems from a casual eye that Stafford is better at almost everything than Burrow. Yet, Stafford has always talked about closer like the top five or seven guy. and Burrow has always talked about as like a top two or four guy yet arm strength, touch, accuracy,

IQ, pocket awareness, manipulation of coverages I've never watched the two play and thought Burrow was even 90% of the quarterback Stafford is. I've never heard this discuss on a pod or major TV channel. I think you've got to factor in age. So like, there's like a 10 year age gap.

So Stafford is on whole 17 or 18 of his career. I mean, hell, he's like going year to year literally right now. and I think if Stafford was at his same age, they were both, you know, 27, 28 years old, 29, in the prime of their career, playing for the Rams and playing for the Bengals, I think we would talk Stafford differently.

I think part of the way we discussed Stafford is like, he's the old guy who's not going to play much longer. So I think we're discriminating him because of his age. And rightfully so, right? Because in the prime of his career, he was on a dog shit team and it was difficult to evaluate him as some great talent or a great player. We knew he was a great talent. But the lions were not the Dan Campbell Lions

the time they were a joke. And now we get to see him in his latter years on a really good team with a good organization and teams really good and he's really good. So I would push back like... Stafford is one of the great arms of all time. Just watch the throw. go to Instagram and watch the throw he made with Bryson DeCambeau.

They played a golf thing that Bryson does for his YouTube channel. I mean, it looks like he's throwing 150 miles an hour. I mean, Bryson's luckily, lucky it didn't come at his face. It came off his chest. But, I mean, it was like Stafford's arm's elite. But like Burroughs doesn't have, I would say, an elite arm. But accuracy, football IQ, pocket manipulation. I mean, he's a great player.

Great player. and they're different type players but I think it just gets back to the to the age it just gets back to the age plus a couple years ago like Stafford led the league in picks he just throws a lot of interceptions which again you're going to throw touchdowns I don't care like Burrow in two like just last year

2000 the fall of 2024 bro was a better player I don't even think would Stafford debate that uh Browns take Travis at two, then trade up with someone later for the Shador pick. I would be very hesitant, and I get very uncomfortable when people go, The Raiders, they just extended Gino out on quarterbacks.

The Seattle Seahawks, no drafting of quarterbacks. The Giants, they gave Russell Wilson and James Winston money. No quarterbacks. Like, guys, we see this every year, man. we've seen it forever. It's like Kirk Cousins, $90 million. Pick 8, Michael Panix, Jr. Hell, Pete Carroll did it once upon a time with Matt Flint.

They paid him a bunch of money. Then they drafted Russell Wilson. That was in the third round. But I think we've got to be very careful about just because a free agent move happens, then we're not going to draft a quarterback. So I guess in theory, Shador could quote unquote, fall on draft night.

But he also could get pick 30, he could get pick six. Who know? But to me, if he is falling, then yeah, I could see someone trade up to get him. And that it could also include good teams, like the playoff team, Steelers, the Rams. I mean, the Rams are a team. Again, he's going year to year. Question.

With your background as a scout and seemingly every major college football program now having a GM position, would you ever consider interviewing for said position for the right team? I get asked iterations of this question. The simple answer is, like, I've been doing this now for a long time. You know, I worked in football for like six years, and it was an incredible time in my 20s to my late 20s. But, like, I was meant to do this, and things have gone well, and I'm not a guy that's ever looked to get back in. I put all my chips in the middle of the table on this, and it's taken time over, you know, a decade, but it's, worked out. And if anything, it's expanding time. It's time to build a bigger operation. It's time to,

you know, add more things to the table. So I have no desire to ever do anything football-wise besides maybe like one day if I have a kid who probably won't be good at football, but maybe he'll play like flag football when he's a kid, like go to be as coach or something. I have a lot of friends that have interviewed for these jobs. and hearing what they offer. I mean, some of them are paying, you know, a million bucks. But I, and I hope those guys take those jobs, get those jobs, and enjoy it. But that is not for me.

And I'm not one of those guys, you know, some people you see, like, go back and forth. Like, I'm a talking guy. Like, I'm a podcaster. Like, that's what I do. I'm not like one of those guys that comes to podcasting and then goes back to football and then goes back to, like, no. This is it. Not that I'd even, it's not like I'm getting offered to get these jobs. And I won't.

But if I did, which slimmed and none won't happen, it would be, I wouldn't even entertain interviewing with them. Longtime listener, first time writer. I really appreciate your perspective on life in general, personal finance, and I'm hoping to get your thoughts on big decision I'm currently facing. I'm in my mid-30s. I'm married and have three kids. I've also been operating a construction company with.

two partners for the past four years. Recently, we received serious interest from potential buyers and now have a formal offer on the table for $9 million. After taxes, fees, other expenses, my personal share would be approximately $1.9 million. That said, I'm in a great position. I pay myself very well. Enjoy strong owner benefits. Vehicles, fuel, business pay trips, and have a great quality of life.

but there will always be a certain level of stress as an owner. I'd love to get your take on what factors I should be considering when deciding whether to move forward with the sale. I just want to say congratulations. I mean, you guys built a company over, you know, in less short period of time and turned this thing into, I mean, pretty closely to not far away from making it an eight-figure operation. That's fucking awesome. So, so congrats to you. Someone asked me a very serious question, not for the mailbag. Honestly, I don't even know if I was supposed to read that.

I didn't say your name. But someone had asked me a very serious question. They were a younger person. And I've used this to anyone that's any time that asks, you know, some like hardcore advice. I'm a huge believer of this. And I was telling Maria this the other day. Like, you can tell and go to people. like what should I do?

No one. Even your partners know better because they don't know like truly like your home situation your kids. What you truly like means everything to you is like your gut. And I think your gut feeling

and I would imagine asking this question you're leaning one way. And nothing to me is more powerful than your gut. And every big decision I've ever made. made in 40 plus years, whether it be professionally or personally. And I've made pretty big ones, moved across the country, just got married, just moved to state pretty recently within the last three or four years. Listen, we've all made big decisions relative to ourselves as we get older. I think your gut is by far the best determining factor. And sometimes your head can come into it,

which is healthy in fight and make you. you know, really kind of battle what that decision is. Well, is this the right decision? And let's face it. Part of what makes this world we live in, in this life we lead so fascinating, is when we make a big decision, whether it's in our personal life or our professional life, whether it's for millions of dollars or whether it's not,

we don't know the outcome. We do not know what is going to transpire over the next five, 10, 20 years. We have no fucking clue. We're not, we could all drop dead. in a week, you know, or we can live another, if we're 34 years old, another, who knows, with technology and health benefits live another 70, 80 years, which would be a long time. You'd be over 100, but you know what I mean? I do think it'd be way over 100, actually, but there's a benefit to owning your own company

that once you receive that after taxes, and you're in your mid-30, so you have a lot of life to live. Now, I don't know if you have, like, another passion you're going to try to pursue, something you like more. Let's just assume that you like the construction business. You're clearly pretty good at it. Whatever your role is in the operation, like you guys are all crushing. It's like 1.9 after taxes, a lot of money. There is no arguing that. But like, what are you just going to live off that 1.9 for the rest of your life? Are you going to just retire at 34 years old? Like I honestly, the word retirement, because sounds like you like what you do. retirement's always given me the hebi-jeebies like I love golf i can play like two straight days

and then it's like i want to do other stuff like i like i like to work uh i i really do and i i don't plan like i i hate that word i really do uh mainly because a lot of people that i've admired in my life like kind of just they love what they do and they work well into their 70s and i think they like doing it now there's some of these people or business owners like yourself, not like W2 employees. Like my mom worked for the government, retired at 64 years old. Obviously, there are certain jobs you're going to retire. But like you need other things to fulfill your life.

And I just, my thing would be the benefits of owning a company are pretty fruitful and not even just what your company is worth, but the way you live your life. Now, the stress aspect of it, that's a huge element. Like if it's something that's driving you nuts, then I think you got to factor that in. if it's having an impact on your personal life with your family, then I think you've got to factor that it. But I think it's fair to say the company you're operating. I think if I took an educated guess,

you're probably paying yourself hundreds of thousands of dollars. You're living pretty well and benefiting from the equity of the company. And like you said, living through the company, as you should. You guys took all the fucking risks. I would recommend keep ripping and rolling. Now,

I saw, you know, Buzz William. the coach formerly of Texas A&M just took the Maryland job. And he's had like seven jobs. He goes to Marquette. Then he goes to Virginia Tech. Then he goes to Texas A&M. Now he goes to Maryland.

And this guy was being interviewed. And I didn't even know who he was. But he said he was friends with Buzz. And Buzz essentially treats these jobs like a stock. He gets in low when they're shitty. He builds them up and makes them good. But then never stays around for like the second iteration of like, let's take the next step and let's maintain this for 20 years that don't always work and then you get fired.

And then he just leaves and he just capitalizes on it. And it's like if you knew that your company, it's like this is peaked. Like we got to get out. Then obviously it's a no-brainer. But if you go wherever you live, whatever the market conditions, you're like, listen, might go through some ups and downs, but this is going to be a pretty good fruitful business moving forward. I'd hold on that that'd be if you can handle the stress. again, I'm not saying

from a greedy standpoint, but, and again, if you think this is as good as it's going to get, then obviously, but you know. Like, I don't know any of those answers. Just like most people,

when you ask others for advice, like, what should I do to get involved with a football team? Like, I can give you the basic things. Like, you know,

hey, knock on people's door, shoot people email, try, but it's like, you kind of just kind of figured out by yourself at a certain point

and your kind of gut kind of leads you that way. way. My dad, I didn't have family or anyone that like football coaches or NFL scouts. Like, fuck, you just kind of got to figure it out. And you got to trust your gut. And usually if you're a smart guy and you sound like one, I think you'll be okay. So good luck. That's, it's tough decision. No doubt about that. But I think you already know the answer to what you're leaning toward. Business alum from Cal Poly. You're always talking about life as a road warrior when you were scouting. Are you a big credit card guy?

If so, what's your go-to bank for points? We actually, you know, speaking of, what's the best sandwich in San Luis Obispo? Hotly debated amongst the boys' group chat the other day. Well, obviously, when you're traveling a lot, and most people, if you're listening to this, business travel a lot, you're going to do something that involves an airline or a hotel. So when I was scouting, I did the Marriott points,

and I've done that forever. And we recently, it should be announced here relatively soon, got actually a credit card company with some points that actually I think is going to be, I just started using it. The points thing, in theory it sounds great,

but I started thinking the other day with how much money I spent on a credit card on a yearly basis and what I get at it from the Marriott points, like, okay, you got a free two nights JW for the Super Bowl. It's like, okay, great. I spent six figures on my fucking credit card building, year. It's like that's all I'm getting here.

And it feels good when you get a free night hotel, but it's like, are they taking advantage of me? So I've made it a little pivot here recently, and we'll be talking about that here in the near future. But I think most guys in the scouting circles, they spend so many nights in Marriott's that it's like negligent to not just be a Marriott guy because you get so many benefits. Best sandwich. I mean, it had to be the tri-tip at Firestone, which some would argue the best try tip in America, which is crazy to think that in Central California, a tri-tip sandwich.

There's got to be places and, like, where barbecue's hot, it doesn't get any better. And I'd put Firestone fries, tri-tip fries elite. If you're just talking normal sandwich, I haven't lived there in... I'm 40 years old,

so I haven't lived there in 18 plus years. Probably High Street deli. That was big when I was there. Had a pretty good deli sandwich. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news?

Huge news. We created our own podcast called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special.

So how do we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes.

I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast where people could call in and say, Hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas,

and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen.

We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The French Open is one. of the toughest tests in tennis. And I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs and on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at

Roland Garris. Every match, every upset and what it really takes to win on Clay. Jenchian went. I mean, she went down in three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lennar Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now and I actually can win on any surface because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman. Human documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Question for the mailbag. Do you think Jordan Love is good enough to win a Super Bowl with the Packers? I've seen flashes of excellence, the second half of his first season as a starter as well as the playoff win versus the Cowboys. He dealt with injuries last season, so I think that's why he had a bit of a down last year. Also, where would you rank him as a quarterback? Would you love to know your thoughts?

I think he's tough to rank. He's, I would say, you know, I used to get this sometimes in school, like incomplete, INC. Do they even, I mean, some of your kids probably going to schools or they don't even give out grades. We got grades, and if they weren't high enough, I came from a generation where you got your ass kicked. But those days have long gone. But I did get my fair share of INCs. So I think it's fair to do incomplete. He's really talented guy.

A lot of unknown. Last year was pretty bumpy. Obviously, the injuries. His high end, his first year starting was pretty good. But I would go incomplete. Is he good enough to win a Super Bowl with? I would also say incomplete. Yeah, I would say based on what we saw the flashes two years ago, yeah.

but was that a flash in the pan? I don't know. Time will tell. The nose wipe to wipe a guy's nose because they banned it the other day from the NFL means you get whacked mob style. A rap reference used mostly

by Atlanta rappers. Slime them out also refers to the same thing. Got to show you how to touch I am. I didn't know any of that. Okay. I mean if that's if it's referring to I just put a hit on that corner and I just score a touchdown.

Yeah, I get it. I get it. I can see John Morant. You know what's funny is I kind of appreciate John Morant doing the double guns, even though it's like, it's not a true double guns, kind of a week. Like that's really what he's getting fine for. After Adam Silver told him specifically not to do it, shows you how little he respects the commissioner,

how just irrelevant he thinks that individual is. he literally called him and said here's a warning you can't do that anymore you've already been in trouble somehow you got suspended for like 40 games or 25 games for brandishing a legal weapon that you owned legally

but Adam Silver is like you cannot do that anymore and Jaws like yeah I'll fucking do it five minutes into the next game what are you going to do about it? I'm going to find you 75 grand Jaws like I make $35 million. I appreciate that move by Jaws I mean, it's crazy how little these players. They all like, we love Adam Silver.

None of you guys listen to anything he says. I love him too. It's like, I love my substitute teacher. Didn't make us do anything. Do you think the increase in trades in player movement in general in American sports is now similar to what we see in soccer? Do you think American sports will fall suit with more coaches being signed from other teams like what happened in soccer?

I didn't, can you just buy a coach like you can buy a player in soccer? I would say that is never going to take place here. If you get a good coach in basketball, football, you know, baseball, none of the managers make any money. I can't really speak to hockey. But in basketball and football, he's never going to be available. Like, Sean Payton quit on the Saints. Like, they didn't plan on trading him to the Broncos.

He literally was like, yeah, I think we're fucked here. I'm out. It's like, gee, Sean. So two years ago, that's why they kind of, you know, held it over to the Broncos because they're like, We didn't want to get rid of this guy. Very rare the John Gruden situation. And it just doesn't.

I think those days are done. It's why it's so stupid when Jay Glazer reports like, yeah, teams are going to try to trade for Kevin O'Connell. It's like, the Vikings are never trading you, Kevin O'Connell. It's never happening. And every team knows it. It's why the report, like, come on. What do you think is going on here? Trying to get the guy some money.

Rightfully so, good negotiating. I think player movement Like there's kind of always been player movement I mean maybe the NFL trades more But I mean I think we've seen guys moving teams my entire life So I I think that's probably a little overblown Now the way they do it Let's say like I'm the Cowboys

And I want Trying to pick a player I want Miles Garrett. Can I just buy Miles Garrett from the Browns? Let's say, I take his $100 million salary or contract, and I pay the Browns, like $50 million. The NFL would never allow

that. So, I would lean, though. How much longer do you think perty contract negotiation will take? I think they should pay him as long as it's less than Josh Allen. By some degree. But by some degree, Josh Allen's got $250 million guaranteed. I mean, by some degree,

Josh Allen, listen, this is not Shidden on Purdy. I like and respect Purdy a lot. And clearly you can win with him. Josh Allen's in a different stratosphere. So I don't know how long this would take. These negotiations are complicated. But to me, Josh Allen and Brock Purdy

are not in the same conversation. Like they don't, it's like, it's like, we shouldn't even put those two names in the same world. Like the company, guy that emailed me. There are certain companies like, my company's worth $9, $10 million. And then there's another company that's worth $500 million.

They both do the same thing. Like, hey, we both build department complexes. But they're not the same. And to me, Josh Allen, I mean, to me, the initial offer from the 49ers should be like $120 million. The bills gave Josh Allen a $250 million guaranteed extension. He just got extended two years ago. I mean, they're just because he's that good. Longtime Chiefs fan

since Joe Montana took us the AFC championship game. Why do many people believe the Chargers will win the division over the Chiefs? With Rishi Rice

and Xavier Worthy as more developed wide receivers and with a serviceable O line, Jalen Moore back up to Trent Williams. I know, yes. We'll see what position

I mean, could you play right tackle, left tackle? Kingsley Sumada, left guard, Creed Humphrey, Trey Smith, and Joanne Taylor plus they made multiple key additions

to the defense. Yeah, I just think that the Patriots, it felt like, won the division 19 of 20 years, right? The years they were winning the division. I mean, the Jets made the two championship games, I think, is a wild card. The one year when Brady tore his ACL in 08

and Castle started, they didn't win the division. But I'm pretty sure beside the 08 season that the Patriots, let's go. I'm just going to use them as an example. So the Patriots divisions

basically from 2003, 2001, they won the division. Next year they finished second. They didn't make the playoffs. But from 2003 till 2019, the Patriots won the division every single year beside the one Brady towards ACL.

The bills, I think, are on a point. to do something like that. If you tell me they win the division, they've won it five straight years, let's say they win it, you know, 11 of the next 12. I don't mean moving forward, I just mean over the next seven, maybe the Patriots win it once, but if you tell me they do it all the time, maybe a couple times, because the variable in the Patriots be pretty good. Like, you're dealing with Harbaugh and Sean Payton and Pete Carroll. Like, the division is dramatically better than it was a couple years ago. A couple years ago, it was

Josh McDaniels, Brandon Staley, and Nate Hackett. So it's like, you think Andy Reid is going to lose it? He didn't, like, he does have to, obviously, Andy just won 15 games. He's an all-time great coach. But he'd be the first to tell you.

Like, this is hard. This is really, really hard. So there is going to be a year over the next couple where it's like, they might lose a division. They're still going to make the playoffs. but yeah, I think the charge is going to be pretty good. I think Denver's going to be pretty good.

It's going to be hard. It's going to be hard. The Patriots really benefited, like most of that time, the bills were a joke. The dolphins always sucked. The Jets are the Jets. And he owned the Jets. So it's like, it's, I mean,

the Chiefs could have lost that game to the Broncos this year. When he missed the field goal, you got a blocked. it's hard. The Raiders, for whatever reason, they've occasionally beat them over the years. But I think you can hold the Chiefs in really, really high regard. They're one of the great teams we've ever seen.

So are the Bulls, and they got pushed. You know, it's like, doesn't mean you always win the division. You can still win the Super Bowl. Hell, the Chiefs one year might win the Super Bowl as a wild card. We will end on this. This is this question. I saw this before I've lately been taking screenshots so it's easier than scrolling on Instagram. I just take, you know, like 10 screenshots and read about.

But my question is, anyone that read Bill Simmons like 15 years ago, he used to end his columns with like, these are my listeners or these are my readers. And that's what I would say here. These are my listeners. Hypothetical question. Say you went out to dinner. Andy Reed, Vince Wilfork, and Vita Vea at a brand new Indian-Mexican fusion restaurant known for its exotic and spicy dishes.

After dinner, you find yourself in a situation where you need to desperately use the bathroom and only three small, single-person, unventilated bathrooms are available and you were beaten to them by all three. who are having the same emergency. No other bathroom isn't within range, so you are forced to wait for them to be done, and amazingly, after what feels like an eternity, they are all done at the same time.

The question is, which bathroom do you choose to go to and why? That's a great question. And anyone that's ever had those moments, I vividly remember having one of those moments driving from Cal Poly to Fresno in California. You know, it's basically middle of nowhere, part of the drive, and a disaster struck.

Different than this situation, but just had to pull over the side of the road, you know, middle of nowhere. I might have used like my t-shirt to wipe. But in this situation, I think you don't even care. At that point in time, it does not matter. The no ventilation thing is just, Probably the most underrated part about this, right?

Courtesy flushes with no ventilation don't have the same power when there is a fan. I used to remember when I moved to San Francisco, a lot of the apartments slash condos, whatever you consider them, are old. So you would be with other people, especially if you're a single guy or single girl dating, in a lot of their bathroom situations. and maybe if you live in big city like New York, you can relate to this. Some of the bathrooms just don't have a fan.

And to me, the no ventilation, no fan means if you have thin walls, you can kind of hear what's going on there. So it's not even just the smell, which in this situation would not be great. It's the sounds. It's why sometimes if you're in that situation, you turn on the sink or something, maybe the shower, so no one hears you.

Listen, I'm Obviously in an emergency Situation, you know, Baker's can't be choosers here. You just kind of got to do what you got to do. But I'm kind of like a shitter elitist. I don't like sitting next to people in public restroom. Not that I won't use a public restroom,

have no problem with doing that. But I'm a big believer. Like, I don't, if I see stalls, let's say there's four of them, I would never sit next to another. guy. And when another person comes in when I'm in one, I get very, like, I don't like that feeling. That's a very, I just, I'm an isolationist when it comes of that. I remember when I was at Cal Poly, by the time I was like my senior year, I had three or four bathrooms throughout campus that were like high-end dean's, you know, bathroom that they used that no one really knew existed that I would hit.

I would never use the other bathrooms. A hack for travelers. If you're ever in a predicament, especially in an area that you don't know, go to a hotel. Like, don't pull into the McDonald's or the jack in the box or Chevron. Go to like the local Marriott or Hyatt or whatever. And just walk right in and just go to the bathroom.

They're always nice and taking care of. And then you just walk right out. It's not like they question you. They don't know who's coming in and out. That's always been a hack. But to your question, in those situations, you just, it's out of your control. You just go to the first door you see and you just deal with it.

Yeah. I appreciate the question, though. I really do. The volume. Hey guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin.

And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. Nice. We invented a podcast. Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts.

We get to ask. other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it, but, you know, tired and sick. Tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite.

Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Winning on Clay is an art. The rallies are relentless. And at the French Open, only the toughest survive. I'd know. I competed there for decades. Join me, Renee Stubbs, on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast for no nonsense breakdowns of the biggest matches, the toughest players,

and the moment's set to find Roland Garris. Jen, she's an outsider to win the French fame. And she likes Clay. Listen, Leonard Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now, and I actually can win on any surface. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports.

Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where SportsSlice comes in. I'm Timbo. In every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline.

And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more,

follow Timbo Slices Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human