The Herd with Colin Cowherd - 3 & Out - Cowboys-Eagles Open the Season, What's going on in Cincy, Rich Eisen goes back to ESPN

Episode Date: May 13, 2025

John discusses the breaking news from the morning when the NFL announced that the Eagles and Cowboys would be the opening game of the season. John talks about why the Cowboys are still a smart choice to open the NFL season despite not being a dominant team anymore. Next, John dives into the issues surrounding the Cincinnati Bengals with Trey Hendrickson and their newly drafted players not participating in Rookie Mini-Camp. Later, John talks about Rich Eisen going back to ESPN and Michael Jordan joining NBC for their NBA coverage. Lastly, John answers your questions in this episode's mailbag segment. 5:21 - Cowboys-Eagles Week 1 19:00 - What's going on in Cincy 30:48 - Rich Eisen going back to ESPN 32:30 - Michael Jordan contributing to NBA on NBC 36:30 - Microsoft 44:59 - Mailbag Follow John on Twitter, Instagram and YouTube for the latest. Check out Gametime - the fastest growing ticketing app in the US, and the official ticketing app of 3 & Out and GoLow -  for tickets to all of your favorite NFL, NBA, NHL, NCAA teams. Concert and comedy show tickets, too. Go to Gametime now to create an account, download the app and use code JOHN for $20 off your first purchase. #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hey guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know, tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you.

you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the ice. Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Winning on Clay is an art. The rallies are relentless. And at the French Open, only the toughest survive. I'd know. I competed there for decades. Join me, Renee Stubbs, on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast for no-nonsense breakdowns of the biggest matches, the toughest players, and the moments that define Roland Garris. She can win.

She's an outsider to win the French fame. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lina Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now. And I actually can win on any service. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games.

Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days I'd put on 10 pounds, I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The volume. What is going on, everybody? John Middilkoff, three and out podcasts.

How are we doing? Hopefully everyone is doing well out there in the real world. Here's the drill. We're going to talk some sports because the Dallas Cowboys are playing the Eagles. one Thursday night opening night for the NFL the Bengals got some stuff going on

they had a star pass rusher who's not happy with this contract got shifty on the horn and had some comments their first overall pick I think he was the 17th overall pick but their first round pick did not participate this weekend

in rookie minicamp which to my knowledge is pretty unprecedented some media stuff rich Eisen goes to SPN. I got a couple of thoughts there. Michael Jordan is going to participate in NBC's coverage. A little dubious on that one. We're going to do a mailbag. I actually recorded the first part of the podcast. And then before I did the mailbag, I watched the lottery, which is, I'm sure, going to be a massive story on Tuesday on all the shows. It's, I mean, I got to give a couple quick thoughts on that because give me a break. I mean, talk about an all-time.

time rig lottery. Listen, Nico was the fall guy. And I think it's pretty clear. And I will dive into that one, as well as the mailbag, answering your football questions. At John Middlecoff,

at John Middlecoff. Fire in those DMs. You guys know the drill. If you listen on Collins feed, make sure you subscribe to Three Now. Subscribe to Three Now, Apple, Spotify, wherever you listen. Also, YouTube.

Make sure you subscribe to our YouTube channel. All of our contents up there. Appreciate everyone that's subscribe. but before we dive in to anything football related, to anything Dallas Cowboys versus the Eagles, I do need to tell you about my friends. My partner is the official ticketing app of this. If you want to go to one of these NFL games,

we are going to know the schedule. I think, is it Wednesday or Thursday, the 14th, 15th? I don't know. I probably should look that up. It's this week. We're going to get the schedule. Games are starting to leak out a little left and right. Schreger threw something out there about Saturday,

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I'm recording this before the lottery so I'm interested to watch how that plays out but it kind of hit me today I was at the gym and I looked up and you know the shows are on even coward was talking about it from first take to every show on FS1, they're leading their show with where is Janus going to go? It's like, guys, this is the middle of the playoffs.

This is the middle of the time when we should be talking about the games. But in basketball, the soap opera nature of stories like that dwarf anything on the court every single time. So honestly, when I looked, I wasn't that surprised, very on brand. And the thing with the NFL, there is a soap opera nature. Hell, the Cowboys and the Eagles have thrown their hat in the ring over the years, playing a major, major part in that. But nothing ever trumps the games.

The games are what pays the bills in the league. They are what drives our interest the most. What did Brian Schopenheimer do on third Nate? What play did he call? Why did he waste a time out? What is Siriani doing? Why is so-and-so not in the game on a must-have play? Maybe it's Dallas Goddard, maybe it's A.J. Brown on a goal line play in a tie game in the second half against the Cowboys.

And that's just week one. I can't imagine the playoffs talking about anything but the games at hand. Obviously, coaching moves and there is soap opera drama to the NFL. I'm not arguing or disputing that, but the games are always going to be the most important thing. And that's really separated the NFL is we care so much about these individual matchups. Like, we already know who is playing every single opponent. We know that.

We got that a long time ago. Hell, we got that when the season ended. You know the rotation year to year. You know wherever you finish, first, second, third, fourth place, where your schedule is based. no, the 49er schedule, which is a joke, forever. Now, we don't know the dates in which the games are played. How many Monday night games you get? What is your Thursday night game?

And we saw last year, the good teams get multiple Thursday night games. But forever, the NFL has forever be strong. But I would say recently, over the last half plus decade, they have really tried to hammer home divisional games at the end of the this season. And sometimes it's worked out brilliantly. We have gotten, last year is a good example. The Lions and the Vikings played the last game of the season. And it wasn't just for the division. It was for the number one seat. You can't get a better scenario. But you also get situations where it's like the Rams and the Niners are playing and there's nothing on the line for either team.

So you never know. And the hard part about the NFL schedule is beside week one, as you go, we see so many injuries. I mean, look at last year. The Eagles played the Packers Friday night in Brazil, and Jordan Love got hurt. So Jordan Love, week two, and week three, couldn't play. So, and some of these injuries happen in training camp. I would say less and less because of the nature of no double days. No one really plays in the preseason.

But once the season starts, injuries have a major, major impact on who's playing, especially at quarterback. But I think the Calvarez. boys are a good example. Obviously, when you win the Super Bowl, you're a lock to host that game on Thursday night. It's a cool moment. And typically, I mean, you know, the Chiefs of one of the last couple years, you know, that team is going to be good. I would say it would take a catastrophe for the Philadelphia Eagles not to be in the playoffs. I honestly have struggled to see a scenario where they are not a playoff team. Now, quarterback injuries,

can have a dramatic impact. But their overall roster, even if their quarterback play was average, would still be pretty tough to beat given how dominant their running back is, how great their offensive line is, and how good their defense is going to be. Like, they are going to be a good team. But when it comes to the Cowboys, who for three straight seasons, or definitely the last two seasons,

had been coming off 12 win years. So in 2023 and in 2024, the Eagles and the Cowboys had both established, we're good teams. We are playoff 12, 13, 14 win contenders. The Cowboys had been winning the division two of those three years, and the Eagles had been a Super Bowl. Those two games when they played,

which are enormous moments for the league. Obviously, the Cowboys, I think you would, I don't even think it's an argument, are the biggest brand, especially if they're good when it comes to television ratings. And the Eagles are in the mix, if they're good as being one of the most important brands in the league.

And they typically played the first or second or like the last the 16th or 17th week, right, whether that was the end of December or early January and they've played some time in November. Well, if you're the league office, you go, are we sure Dallas is going to be any good? Because I was thinking today, am I going to go,

I picked Dallas to make the playoffs last year. I was obviously wrong. Though I think they would have been a little more competitive if DAC hadn't been injured. But Cooper Rush actually wasn't terrible, but the defensive injuries, regardless. I mean, they drafted 12th. So that one was a whiff.

But ultimately, like the league's going, Brian Chodinheimer, Jerry's getting a little weird. If you were a betting man, are they more likely to win seven games or 11 or 12 games? And I think the answer would be seven. So this game is really, really important because if they're both good, it does huge ratings. Well, week one, you can't really screw it up.

So you might as well utilize the Cowboys week one. And I think that's why they did it. Because Peter Schrager tweeted out today that this has happened right in recent years is the NFL play Saturday games once the college football season ends and the bowl game start. Well now with the playoffs,

they did it last year, they play a couple Saturday games while the first round of the college football playoffs are going on. And Schrager tweeted out that the two games are going to be Packers versus the Bears, which is just an easy no-brainer game regardless if the bears don't live up to the hype,

it'll be fine. And the Eagles playing Washington. I think two years ago, before Jaden Daniels and Dan Quinn and Adam Peter showed up and Josh Harris bought the team, that's Eagles Cowboys. So Washington being good

has enabled them to make this move because they can say whatever they want. I think this is a good indication of, we don't know what Dallas is going to be. And even if Dallas is terrible, they're still not like, this isn't the Jags the Arizona Cardinals on television, they still move the needle and are a big brand for Fox,

but this is the NFL, not the NBA. If Janice gets traded to San Antonio, it's a great story for everyone that talks about basketball to hammer home for the next couple months. But those games will not outright Steph Curry on playing putt putt on ABC. You know, I mean, that's just a reality. Where in the NFL, the bills and the Packers and the Kansas Chiefs, these are in tiny markets, and they do 20, 25, 30 million people. Because if you're a good NFL team,

team, we will watch. And I think now that Washington's good, it's just an easy replacement. So I think the treatment that the Cowboys have got these last several years, and they earned it because they were a, you know, a playoff 12 plus win team, Washington is going to get that treatment now. And that's why they utilize the Cowboys week one. And I do think, you know, the NFL is praying the Bears are going to be good. And I think we will see that with the television setup come here in a couple of days.

days. They gave the treatment a little bit to the Jets. And I think Rogers went on record last year of like he was kind of told that the Jets and himself owed the league one because they had put him on the prime time games. Then he torn his Achilles. I think the league would love for the Bears to be good. I mean, the market's massive. The brand's big. Obviously, their team's talented. But sometimes you just never know where, you know, I think that's what's fascinating about the schedule in general.

is the league makes a couple bets, right? And I would imagine the bears are going to be one of those. For the most part, you don't really have to do it, right? And we'll find out, like, if Aaron Rogers haven't signed, how they treat the Steelers, now, you probably treat the Steelers like always. Give them primetime games. They're one of the biggest brands in the league. And at the end of the day, even if they don't live up to the hype that everyone that follows the team wishes they would,

they're still going to win nine or ten games to be very competitive. and they never really let you down. But there are always some franchises that you go in on. The 49ers were one of those teams, right? They got the max amount of slots. And they had earned it because they had been a Super Bowl team. And then all of a sudden, McCaffrey's injured, team's not as good, and they're playing in primetime games losing.

So it's not an easy job. And I think a lot of people hype it up. It's like, oh, this is no, this is easy. I don't know. I think the schedule thing, a lot of moving parts. and just a lot of unknowns. But I think the Eagles Cowboys, that's a fantastic start,

and then Chargers Chiefs in Brazil on Friday night is really cool as well. The NBA 82 game grind is done, and now the real fun begins, the NBA playoffs, are here and it's time for the high-stakes drama, clutch moments and jaw-dropping plays. Can't wait.

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Hey, it's us, the Jonas brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, new? huge news. We created our own podcast called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to a...

We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers

was... This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast where people could call in and say, Hey, Jonas.

And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guide, Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman

help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

The French Open is one of the toughest tests in 10. tennis. And I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris, every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on Clay. Jenchian went. I mean, she went down in three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lena Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now, and I actually can win on any surface because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open.

Listen to the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman.

documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. One of the big stories over the last 24 hours has been the Cincinnati Bengals. And I got to throw a red flag on one situation. And I got to say, I'm going to support them in another. And I think two things that have happened over the last couple days is

Trey Hendrickson basically went on record with Adam Schaefter today discussing his displeasure that no one has talked to him since the draft. There have been no communications on a new contract. That sounds kind of crazy when you read the headline and you realize the draft was like two and a half weeks ago. It's like we're acting like this was four months ago. I don't think it's that crazy. We're focused on the draft and we're focused on getting the guys in.

I don't think that's the crucial. craziest thing, and we'll dive into that in a second. But the bigger story was the Bengals, first round pick, Shemar Stewart, the really physically gifted player from Texas A&M, athletic freak, didn't really produce at the level of

his athleticism, but was drafted 17th overall, and pretty intriguing draft pick. It's either kind of a boom or bust. Feels like they're swinging for the fences. Don't hate it. Don't love it. Understand it. I had pick 17, don't hate it. He did not practice this week at rookie minicamp, which is kind of crazy given that

everyone practices if they're healthy. He just stood there and watched. So like, given that this is a borderline unprecedented situation, I had to do some digging. There was an article today in the Cincinnati Inquirer that one of the issues, because I thought, one of the reason all these guys practice, not because most of them have their rookie deal signed before rookie minicamp. They do not. They typically get an injury waiver. So if something catastrophic were to happen, they would be covered. And the reality is the type of practice that you have now at these rookie mini camps is a joke.

I mean, OTAs in general, it is nowhere near what it used to be. And the majority of this stuff is walk through mental stuff. The chances of people getting hurt now are very, very slim. Still football, still definitely a risk. And at any moment, someone could fall on you, things that are out of your control. So it's like, there is some understanding of a risk that you are taking. Now, the issue that the inquiry reported was, everything is slotted now. Right.

I just read that the Seattle Seahawks have signed the North Dakota State Guard, who was the 18th overall pick. So you are seeing rookie sign left and right. what are you really arguing over? You can argue over dates in which bonuses are paid. I give you a signing bonus, how we pro rate that, how it's paid, the percentage in which it's paid, and injury guarantees has been an issue somewhat that teams have butted heads on.

Well, Cincinnati, I guess, had offered Stewart a lower percentage than Dallas, Turner got in the same slot last year from the Vikings. So he's like, at most, we should just be on par with that. There is a precedent set. So while I will get into defending Cincinnati a little bit when it comes to Trey, this one feels like, listen, part of negotiation should be a little back and forth. There shouldn't really be any with this.

This should be pretty black and white. Like, what are we doing? It's one thing to low ball player that's a free agent, because he's, he's highballing you and you end up meeting in the middle. It's highball even a term. You know what I mean. He comes in low. I come in high and we eventually know we're going to meet in the middle, right? You list your house overpriced for a million dollars. I come in at 850. I know we're going to end up meeting at 928 and be cool with it. I know you'll take it. Your agent's already told my agent. They're like, listen, if you can just get close to the 950 number, I said, listen, I'll come up a little before 9,

but we're going to meet in the middle. That's not what this is. These things are slotted. In Cincinnati, like, I think sometimes when you get a negative, there's like a narrative or a talking point about you as a human being, as a company, as a franchise, it's hard to shake that. Right?

And I would say when people think about Cincinnati, their first reaction is somewhat negative. It's like, ah, kind of a low-level franchise. So when this story comes out, it's easy for everyone to pile on them. Where if you're a high-level franchise, like if I had told you that Howie Roseman or Lesneed was in a standoff about a situation like this, those guys would get the benefit of the doubt. You'd be like, what's up with that fucking agent?

And here's the reality of agents. The agent of the player does not give a shit about the team. That is not his job. I think sometimes they overhype I love my guys, I love my relationship No, you're in the business of getting your 2, 5, whatever your points are on the deal to make money so that your 17 year old

drives a Mercedes as well. Like this is a business, let's not get it twisted. You can say it's a human business and it is you're representing players but you wouldn't be doing this, you're not doing this for charity here. You're doing it because there's a lot of money on the line and ideally you're buying it early

to get that second contract and really go, cha-ching. so like the the objective of the agent and the objective of the team are never going to be the same the team only cares about doing what's best short

and long term for the franchise and trying to win the agent just does not give a shit the player he represents might but the agent does not but in a situation like this like I'm sorry bad look for the Bengals

also just bizarre like of course this happens to the Bengals now the Trey Hendricks thing is a little I would say there's a little more gray area. He's 30 years old, we'll be 31. Just had a career two years

where he had 35 sacks. Would you be in the business of giving $100 plus million to a guy that broke out in his career at 29 and 30 years old? Because I don't know, I might struggle with that. Like, it'd be one thing, it's like, hey man, you could get me for two years and

$60 million. I don't think he's signing that contract. He's looking at Max Crosby. He's looking at Miles Garrett. He wants a long-term, huge deal. And while they just signed their two wide receivers, those guys are younger players. Trey Hendrickson was not a guy they drafted. He was a guy they got because it did not work out for him in his first stop. And part of that was injuries. Part of that was just figuring out how to become a pass rusher. And he's coming to his own and he's been an excellent dominant player. But I do understand if I ran the organization, and I think this is how it would be, if the Ravens ran it, if the Eagles ran it, if the Chiefs ran it, this isn't just a no-brainer.

Here, Trey, here's your blank check. And I think for him, and I saw J.J. Watt tweeting, like, of course, they told him, have another big year, and then it'll take care of you. Yeah, this guy's business. This is one of those things if it's a little more complicated than just give him a bunch of money. Like ultimately T. Higgins is getting a lot of money no matter what. The Bengals just had to decide like are we going to invest a lot of money in two players at the same position? This is one of those where even good teams would be like, yeah, we're going to hesitate on giving an older player that much money. Now, maybe he goes on to have three more years, no injuries, kicks ass, and you look back and go, God, it was a no-brainer. But what if like you're a year and a half

in? You're like, God, he's already banged up again. Because he was. He was. He was. He goes. He's a lot. He's, he was. He was. He was. He was. He was. He was. He was. He was, he leisurely on in his career. So I think it's easy for him to come out and kind of paint the Bengals as the bad guy and no one is going to defend them because of what's going on with their rookie. But I do think this situation is a little more complicated. And they're going, you're not a free agent. It's not like we're franchising you. You're on a contract with $15 million.

Like we've already, now listen, their owner's daughter had made some comments a while back that not the way I would do business. but I also think Trey coming out like this I don't think that's helping his cause either so I think this is a more complicated situation and it's easy for every swinging dick on television that played in the league to go like

he's getting screwed he is getting fucking railroaded and that's going to be the majority of shows you're going to turn it on and listen is he underpaid if they make them play at 15 million 1,000% but like what's he looking for

what deal would you? he be willing to sign? Because if he goes Max Crosby or Miles Garrett, I got to say, no dog, not for me. And the problem is, if you're the Bengals, like, what's his market? Does he have a lot of teams? I know a lot of

Lions fans hit me up, like, when are we going to do something big? Like, what are the Lions going to trade a first round pick and give him $100 million? No chance. So, because that would be crazy business. The Rams, maybe they get back to their roots. They got two first round picks. You never know. But I don't think that.

one is as like black and white right and wrong, you know, judging each side as I feel like it's made out to be on the interweb. A couple other quick things. Rich Eisen is going back to ESPN, which I don't spend too much time on media news. But that's interesting because Rich Eisen host the NFL draft, host Sunday football for the NFL network, and host the combine. Kind of an important cog in the NFL network. A month plus ago, Peter Schrager, I would say

one of the bigger NFL network personalities, also left. There have been rumors for well over a year now that the NFL network is in major trouble and the NFL would gladly get rid of it. A year ago, they moved Good Morning Football, maybe even

a little less, from New York to L.A. Everyone's like, why did you do that? It's like, why are we paying this enormous studio fee when we have a free one that we're already paying for in Los Angeles. They want to get rid of this. It is not making any money. They want out of this business. It is not worth it for them. And I think Peter Schrager and Rich Eisen bouncing tells you everything you need to know. My guess is, and he's a friend of mine, and I think it's a no-brainer. Listen, Mel is coming down the home stretch. He's had a hell of a run. And I'm not some Mel Hater. I know he became a

I don't even want to say controversial figure, but him going nuts about Shador Sanders. Like, that's Mel's job. Like, he's been doing this for a long time. Like, I would not surprise me at all if Daniel Jeremiah is next. And I think the NFL network, if you tell me that it does not exist in a year,

because even if the ESPN, quote-unquote, buys it, they're just going to run everything through ESPN. People do not watch NFL network. And the other thing that I saw the day is that NBC is going to hire Michael Jordan. They didn't really,

I haven't quite figured out exactly what he's going to do. It's not like he's going to be calling games, maybe shows up and makes some special appearances. Call me old school, but I'm kind of a sucker

for mysterious celebrities, really famous people. You know, part of social media, which I think it's directly impacted the death of legacy media.

We just know too much about these people and what they think about every issue. I don't need to know that. One thing I feel healthier about in my life, I spend way less time on Twitter. It's like, why do I need to know what every newspaper writer thinks about every situation in this world?

And Newsflash, I don't. And I'm healthier for reading less of it. And I think part of what makes Michael Jordan so special is we don't know that much about them. And I think we have seen, and listen, I worked at a radio station where the guy that ran it got a hard on for famous people.

He would do anything to get a big name on the radio station. And sometimes, if they were a good radio interview, it was really good. But just because the guy was famous, if it was terrible radio, which if it was really terrible, it would also be good.

But there was a lot of, like, this is unlistenable. And I think historically you see with television, they have the same mindset. Let's get the most famous guy possible involved in our sport. We've seen it in football over the years. Jerry Rice, I don't remember this, but Joe Montana was on TV.

Obviously, he did not go well. Emmett Smith. We've seen it over and over. It's why Greg Olson, like, Towns Town. Pat McAfee was a punner. You know how many people involved in pro sports like, be like, I could do that. It's like, no, you couldn't.

No one would watch. you after a while. You're not entertaining. And I think we've seen it with Magic Johnson, who just not that great on television. And I do wonder if Michael Jordan, now listen, if Michael would talk like he's had a couple cocktails

and letting it fly, he'd be good. I just don't know if we're getting that guy. Listen, Tom Brady, to a man, every single human that's ever played with him swears by the guy. It's like he could balance this dude's super famous. People loved him.

it's like he's just one of the guys I'd say they said the same thing about Peyton Manning and Peyton just refused to go all in he kept it you know light with Eli but Tom then started doing the television stuff in Colin Games and you're like where's the Tom that we've heard about and he struggled

because he's like he's got the PRT it's just hard which I will defend him I understand it's hard to be the guy that like a borderline F word could come out of your mouth you know every sentence so there's this balance but then you become too corporate and you're like Show some personality.

And I think Michael, I don't know. I mean, I'm not saying it's going to fail. I idolized as a kid Michael Jordan. If you were my age, I don't care if you lived in Seattle, if you lived in Florida, if you lived in Davis, California, you had some sort of Bulls apparel. I had a pair of shorts and I had the jersey, as well as a poster signed by Michael Jordan

that's in my closet right now. It's one of my prized possessions, and I don't really care that much about that type stuff. I also have a Jack Nicholas signed to John. Jack Nicholas, best of luck, like basically wrote me this thing because my dad had fished with this guy who then was buddies with Jack and fished with him.

My mom put in front of the son and over the course of like a decade when I was a kid, it disappeared. So now it's just a picture of Jack. You can't even see the writing. Can't say the same about Michael. Still looks good. Best wishes Michael Jordan.

But I don't know. I would tend to lean. I'm not trying to be pessimistic. I'm not trying to be a negative Nancy, then it's going to be a lot of hype and not much substance behind it. Okay, let's end on this. Welcome to Chasing Challenges,

brought to you by Microsoft. In the NFL, just like in the business world, overcoming obstacles is key to success. Microsoft empowers business decision makers with AI solutions, simplified cloud and data management, and trustworthy, reasonable technology to turn challenges into opportunities.

In this segment, we explore some of the biggest challenges being faced in the NFL and how they can be overcome. Whatever challenge you're facing, Microsoft empowers you with the expertise to say, bring it on. This week we're discussing the challenge faced by the New Orleans Saints. Their quarterback, which obviously was a weird situation, but he'd been there started the last couple years, retires.

They have a couple guys on the roster before the draft named Jake Hainer, who they drafted in mid-round, who was essentially beat out the last couple, last year by Spencer Rattler, who they drafted, I think, in the third round. And then they draft Tyler Shuck here in the second round. And I think Kellan Moore said or kind of leaked out that we're just going to have an open competition. To me, I think the move's pretty simple, because I think if you're the Saints, you either need to do two things.

One, you just need to suck so you are in position to have the number one overall pick and draft a quarterback and change your franchise and get out of this quarterback purgatory situation that just forced you to give over $70 million guaranteed a couple years ago to Derek Carr. Or, even if you're not as good, Tyler Shuck should get every rep. Tyler Shuck should play every game as long as he's physically able and just find out, do we have anything here? Can this guy, like, does he show enough to go, hey, we're drafting fourth?

We're not going to take a quarterback. We're going to believe in this guy for the next couple years. We're going to give this guy an opportunity. We're going to invest in this player. But those are your only two options now. So to me, maybe it's just politically correct and you've got to do it for the morale of your locker room. But the only thing internally they should be thinking about

is Tyler Shuck's going to be our starting quarterback. And we're going to learn one way or another. Is this guy good enough moving forward? Can this guy be at least our long-term starting quarterback over the course of his rookie contract? if we build up a good team around them, can we compete with this guy? Because if we can't,

the only thing that matters then is losing to put us in a position, kind of like the Titans, to get a Cam Ward and then pivot moving forward. Now, not ideal. They would have drafted quarterbacks in the last three years, in the fifth, in the third,

and in the second round. But listen, if you don't have one, no one will fault you for drafting another one. So if I'm the Saints, this is going to be a weird year. You don't have much experience in your quarterback room. You have a first-year head coach, who's a younger guy? You got Brandon Staley coaching defense. Who knows what's going on there?

But there should be one goal and one goal only, figure out the quarterback position. Is the kid good enough? Not even a kid. He's like 30 years old. You know what I mean? Can we play with this guy going forward? We saw Andy Dalton drafted in the second round, was a starting quarterback for a while. The Raiders drafted Derek Carr in the second round, was a starting quarterback for nine years. can he, Jimmy Garoplo, listen, if you did a good enough job building up around the team,

could be a solid starting quarterback. Can he be a player like that? Because if he can't, then the goal should be to lose and be in position to draft one. That's it for this week's chasing challenges. Remember, Microsoft's AI solutions empower you to take bold steps

and make informed decisions, sparking new ideas to help drive your business forward. With Microsoft as your trusted partner, you can navigate your journey with confidence, finding innovative solutions and reaching new possibilities. Visit Microsoft.com slash challengers to learn more. Blending Vice's signature dynamic storytelling with the high-octane world of sports, Vice Sports brings an exciting and diverse range of programming that goes beyond the game.

From action-packed live events to gripping behind-the-scenes documentaries, to hard-hitting investigative pieces and in-depth profiles of athletes, coaches, teams. Vice Sports captures the raw energy, drama, and passion that, make sports truly unforgettable. Catch live events and other exclusive sports programs only on VICE TV. Go to vizTV.com to find your cable channel. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news.

What's the news, new? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to a... We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there.

But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes.

I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it.

Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. Help an Acapella band with their between. Queen songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.

Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis. And I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs. And on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to work.

win on clay. Jenchian win. I mean, she went down in three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lena Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now. And I actually can win on any surface because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open.

Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all,

embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I Heart Radio. app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, let's do a little mailbag. Ad John Middlecalf is the Instagram. Ad John Middlecoph is the Instagram.

Just actually watch the NBA lottery. It's one of the shadiest things I've ever seen. I mean, it really is. That, listen, I'm a Laker hater, but I've never argued they are the biggest NBA brand. And honestly, it's not that close. For them to get Luca in the middle of the night, we'll go down forever and always as the craziest most insane thing we've ever seen.

And then a couple months later, the Dallas Mavericks that had 18 ping pong balls out of 1,000, get the number one pick who's widely considered one of the best prospects. You know, top two or three over the course post-Lebron. I mean, it's, listen, that's like taking your accountant out to dinner after he just saves you a bunch of money. tonight was not about the Mavericks. Tonight, and the last was about the Lakers.

And a league that, you know, in the height of Curry, LeBron in like 2015, 2016, over the course of the next seven, eight years, half the NBA's audience disappeared. Yet they got a contract with the television partners that more than doubled it. It didn't even make sense to me. And listen, I understand the power of live rights,

but it's like, double what? Well, what if we could promise you that the Lakers are, LeBron's 40 years old? We know that, who knows, maybe a year left two, who knows? He could retire, probably not, but definitely a year at a high level. There's no guarantee. We'll take care of them. We will have them good. And boom, Luke is on the Lakers. And the Mavericks get the number one overall pick. You know, people, for a long time, I think, conspiracy, theories were viewed as like crazy people. And listen, media people love, like, take your tin foil hat.

Like, we have a little bit of a runway now that a lot of things that were called crazy and conspiracy theorists have been proven to be facts. And you can't tell me that tonight and going back to the trade with Nico and the Mavs is not one of the shadiest sports moments and stories we've ever seen. And tonight felt like. some validation of like yeah it all kind of makes sense and if you don't think the league was involved like i'm sorry we don't have much in common i mean really we don't and i don't blame if i'm a laker fan i don't even care i got myself luca need to get them eating a couple salads here and there

but like we won and if i'm a mass fan it's like yeah it sucks i'd probably rather have luca but it's like we got taken care of so it all worked out and adam silver had his david stern moment no matter what we will take care of the brand and keep our most important television product relevant. The NBA, and I've talked about this over there, is not the NFL. Its teams in smaller markets are never going to do the numbers of the Lakers, of the Knicks, of what Steph Curry has turned the Warriors into. They cannot. Janus on the Bucks, it's not the same as the Chiefs and Patrick Mahomes.

Chiefs and Patrick Mahomes, 30 million people. I mean, that's what happens. The Bucks play, I don't know, the Pacers, people just aren't watching that. So I just think that Adam Silver had his David's turn moment. And it's one of the craziest, most obvious corrupt things we've ever seen in my entire life. You call me middle-combe. You're fucking insane. You're just saying that.

There is no way you can convince me that the league was not involved with this trade. I honestly think a little bit less that Nico's some crazy person now. Like it all, it kind of all makes sense. It all makes sense. And if you wanted to argue that the NFL should involve itself in a lottery, that was riveting television. And now this storyline is everyone's going to be talking about it. And the league doesn't care.

What are you going to do? Sue him. I'm sure Danny Age wants to. I mean, he's been tanking for like three years. Look what just happened. It shows you, man. Don't go work for the Utah Jazz and expect good things to happen to you if the league is going to be corrupt because you're going to get screwed. Man, what a night in the NBA draft.

or lottery. Question for the mailbag. Which teams do you think have increased their ceiling and floor the most after the draft and free agency? I do think the team that stands out to me, especially if you factor in the coach. I think there are two, and I think it's the Patriots and the Bears. I mean, just we know how important coaching is in the NFL. And Iber Fluse, I mean, let's face it was kind of an embarrassment.

As a head coach, I mean, he's a good defensive coach. Gerard Mayo was just completely over his head and those guys got Mike Brable who's proven to take random Tennessee teams to win playoff games I'm pretty sure weren't the Titans of the number one seat a couple years ago Danny Hill melted down but yeah the Titans

is the number one overall seed think about that and the Bengals nice little upset on their way to the Super Bowl but in Ben Johnson's I would say the most highly touted offensive coordinator probably since Kyle you know people

forget, like Sean McVeigh was a controversial hire. People did not view Sean McVeigh when he was hired, myself included, I'm guilty, like the way he became. Kevin O'Connell, when he was hired, wasn't viewed like he's viewed now. Brian Dayball, a lot of hype behind Brian Dayball. So you could say maybe since Brian Dayball was hired with the bills coming from Josh Allen. But I mean, Ben Johnson's one of the most hyped offensive coordinators. I would just say of recent memory. So I think they've added a bunch of offensive linemen. They draft the tight end from Michigan. They already had good players on the team. So I think the Bears, the Bears roster is better than the Patriots. But I think when you look at the Patriots, you know, could they win eight, nine games and all of a sudden go from drafting back-to-back years really high to competing for a wild card spot in December?

I don't think it's outrageous. Derek Carr, according to Chat GPT, he missed only. two games when he played for the Raiders. The concussion and injuries were all with the Saints. During his nine-year tenure with the Raiders in Vegas and Oakland, 14 to 22, he missed two games due to injury. Notably, in 2016, he suffered a fractured leg. I remember that. We talked about that yesterday, causing him to miss the regular season finale in the playoff game. In 17, he sustained a back fracture, but missed just one game. Overall, Carr was remarkably durable. I think his career with the Raiders a little underrated.

He took a lot of blame for the dysfunction going on. And I'm not saying he didn't have bad games, but I would say he was the least of their worries most of the time. I can't speak to every game he played in the Saints. That obviously got a little weird, but... Big fan of the pot. Question for the back. I'm going on my first bachelor party for a few weeks

in Fort Lauderdale. In a few weeks, not for a few weeks. For younger people these days, a co-ed bachelor party is popular, and this one is co-ed. I'm going with my girlfriend, but just wanted some tips for not overindulging on the three-day bender

and other courtesies you've seen over the years for bachelor parties in general, picking up the tab, handling people that may be downers and may not want to go with the flow. Go Vikings. I got to be completely honest. Maybe I truly sound like a 40-year-old completely out of touch, though I just got married recently.

When you say a co-ed bachelor party, do you mean a bachelor and a bachelorette party together? Like, do you mean that the bachelor party and the bachelorette party are going on at the same time? Which would be less crazy to me, which I would imagine has happened before in a similar venue, maybe for cost purposes. or do you just mean that your buddy's bachelor party is co-ed, meaning you can bring your girlfriends or they just come? I've never heard of that. I've never heard of that. So I don't want to speak out of turn here because if it's a bachelor party,

not a bachelorette party, and they just, it's co-ed, that seems weird to me. Like, I think you can go to a bachelor party. Is it because they don't trust you guys? I got a red flag that's interesting. situation. That's something I can't relate to. I mean, not that you, I just, that seems weird to me.

Part of a bachelor party, whether you're going bar hopping, clubbing, golfing, boating, whatever you're doing, it's like, you with the boys. You with, you know, your good friend, you're in the wedding, your close friends with the guy, your college roommates, people from high school, whatever, never heard of a co-ed operation.

I would say, I think the hard part with courtesies, it depends on ages. like if you're all I don't know how old you are let's just you know once you get to a you know in your mid to late 30s some people are going to be doing better than others

so when you go again non-coed let's say you got 12 15 10 guys at a nice steakhouse maybe people can kind of get crazy start ordering seafood towers and a bunch of food and then the bill comes

and there might be one dude who's I mean making a ton of cash and a couple other guys that, you know, don't make any money. So that's where it can get kind of weird. I think you got it. There's no really right or wrong way to kind of handle that. I think sometimes just communicate. Like, what are we cool with spending? I only got a couple hundred bucks to spend that dinner. If this thing gets outrageous, I got to be out. Some people are always going to be up and down in terms of like being into stuff and being not into stuff. I would say any time that, you know, if you have the means can get, you know, it's pretty easy.

the group around the beers. I do, again, like, does that include their girlfriends now? That's where I'm kind of taken back. I feel very old if this is in. Because it's one thing, if you got 10 dudes, it's like, hey, we get a round of beers. Can we get some cocktails? Can we get some shots? And it's like, does that 10 now turn into 20 because they got their ladies there?

I also would imagine there are going to be some single guys there could be a little weird. I'm fascinated. I need to follow up on that, the co-ed thing. Never heard of that. Hearing about Derek Carr retirement reminded me of when Colin used to have the opinion that he'd be a Hall of Famer one day. Seeing his car amassed an 0-1 playoff record, I think it's safe to say that was a horrible take.

What has been your worst takes on a player? I mean, I thought Derek was like clearly better than the group he was in of like Jared Goff, Dak Prescott, Kirk Cousins, not that long ago, five, six years ago. And then over the course of his career, I don't think anyone would put him above. I don't know.

I don't remember Colin saying he'd be a Hall of Famer, but I would have been an agreement of speaking pretty highly of Derek after a couple years. I mean, I wasn't that big on Lamar Jackson coming out of college. I thought Jalen Hertz was a running back. I thought he couldn't throw. I'm an Oklahoma guy. The guy that hired me at Fresno State,

I've said this a million times, works there. I've watched their program very closely with Baker Mayfield to Kyler to Jalen. Might be a little out of order there. I went to the Texas Oklahoma game this year. I watched them lose by like 100. I follow Oklahoma's program. And obviously, it was easy. People like Jalen.

I just didn't think he could throw it well enough. I thought that pick was crazy. I thought that pick by Howie in the second round was insane. I think it's fair to say it's, going to go down I mean when you factor in how important

that position is I mean I could define Howie Roseman's career so that one would be up there that'd be really high Is there an unexpected team next season that you can see picking in the top five For example

We can all see where the Saints, the Giants, the Browns, etc. would be picking in the top five I think the team that I'm going to stay on is Miami I think Miami is just a team to keep an eye on I just can't get over this co-ed bachelor parties. I think Kevin O'Connell is a great coach.

I've watched Adrian Peterson carry the Vikings offense and a rotating door of failed quarterbacks all my life. Cousins was decent, but I've always been looking for a franchise quarterback, drafted and with the team for a decade. Seeing O'Connell's offensive success with a handful of quarterbacks, I'm hoping JJ is our guy. I know you want to see a playoff win with O'Connell, but is his true test going to be developing JJ

and setting him up for success. If JJ fails, you think people will blame O'Connell. We'd like to hear your thoughts. Love the pod. My wife is from Davis. I'm from Chico. We met at Cal Poly, and we lived in Slow for 10 years. We just moved to Denver, and my commute requires your podcast.

Go Mustangs, baby. I don't even know why I say that. I mean, their teams are terrible, but cool. I enjoy my fellow Cal Poly brethren. awesome to meet your wife there that's cool I would say I think sometimes

who's it going to fall on we just got to see how this plays out like I totally understand why they drafted them their team is going to be competitive when you're the head coach if things get weird it always kind of falls on you

I do think Kevin O'Connell established himself with cousins and Sam Darnold that even if this next couple years gets weird I think JJ will get blamed Now, it's easy to blame, like, Trey Lance, it turns out Trey Lance wasn't good,

but the reason Kyle kind of could go like, well, not totally, because Pertie fell into his lap. So if J.J. fails, which I don't think he will. If I was a betting man, is he going to be a star? I don't know if I'd go that far, but, I mean, more than likely, I feel pretty confident that they'll get like some version of Alex Smith, right? That's what I would bet on. Now, obviously you'd want more, and maybe it turns out to more. I'd be stunned if he's like, Zach Wilson, right, or Trey Lance.

But, listen, it's football. Not every guy's going to succeed. Some of these guys in this class are going to fail, right? There was Caleb, Jaden, Drake, Pennix, Nix, JJ. Well, we all think Jaden's good. Everyone assumes Drake's good, and Willie Cologne kind of pushed back against that. Caleb, I think people are still very bullish on him. Bo Nix, everyone's high on.

I'm rooting for Michael Panics, but that organization, even if four of them succeed, two of them are going to fail. So, yeah, I think the quarterback would get blamed over Kevin. Just heard someone right

you saying Millrow last season and compared him Lamar in their final season of college. Jalen could be the next Lamar, but to say his final season is comparable is pretty disrespectful, to Lamar. Just look at the stats. Rushing yards, passing yards, passing touchdowns,

not even close. So let's look at the stats. They both played 13 games. Passing yards, Lamar threw from 800 more. Completia percentage. Milro, who's considered... The thing with Lamar is sneaky and a little inaccurate

in college was under 60%. Passing touchdowns, 27 to 16. Picks, same thing, 11 and 10. Rushing yards, Lamar was 16. rushing touchdowns. Jalen had 20. Yeah, I mean, listen, I do think the way Jalen Milrose season was talked about,

his stats do look better than the way we discussed the season. I'm guilty of. I was like, yeah, Jalen looked terrible this year. And maybe I'm just basing it off of like a couple interactions. Besides, the first half of Georgia, he was elite. First half of Georgia, I mean, if he would have played like that, he would have won the Heisman,

and they would have been in the play. playoffs. But then you'd watch other games like, what is going on here? New offense. It was kind of weird. I mean, when you think what, I mean, think about DeBoer with Pennix, it's just a lot different than Jalen, right? Penix is a pocket quarterback. Jalen is much more of a run-around Lamar type player. My question is regard to the quarterback position and what makes them an all-time great. Bradshaw has four rings and Aikman has three, but they are not consistent.

considered a top 10 quarterback, but people will consider Dan Marino a top 10 quarterback. How much emphasis should be put on Super Bowl? I would say Terry's before my time. I was born in 84, never watched him play. Dan, I came into my own in the mid-90s. He was old. I would say this about Dan Marino is working in the league and working with a lot of players that played in the 80s and the 90s, like Todd Bowles or Lewis Riddick or these guys that played defense.

They were drafted in the 80s. That said, when you played Dan Marino, his ball would come by your head like, you know, a sniper rifle. You'd be like, what is that? The way his peers discussed him tells you everything you need to know. I think Dan Marino's respect from his peers is as high as it gets. I would say as someone that rooted against the Cowboys as a kid, I thought Troy Eggman was pretty good.

Now, I think Troy and Dickman and Terry Bradshaw are discussed of like, well, Terry Bradshaw played with the steel curtain, which not talking about the offense, talk about the defense. So one of the great defenses in the history of the sport. I mean, a defense that was literally nicknamed

and won four Super Bowls. Now, he had good receivers, he had a good, Franco Harris, Stallworth, Lynn Swan, some legendary throws. I think people consider him a really good player, but I think if you were drafting the guys that you discussed in the top 10,

I think Marino is getting chosen over both those two guys. And I think, I think Troy Aikman or Terry Bradshaw would tell you, you put Dan Marino in its prime on the teams we played in, he would have done what we did as well. I don't think they would push back against that. But think about the top 10 quarterbacks. Who, like, who are you kicking out?

Brady, Peyton, Farr, Rogers, Elway, Marino, Young, you know, it's hard for me to talk about guys I didn't watch, right? So it's the 70s I don't feel as comfortable. You know, I know people,

like Joe Namath is a name. We throw out a lot. Namath is like a Ruthian figure, though the difference is like Ruth hit, however many 750 home runs. Namath, I think, threw the same number of touchdowns as picks. I've always heard from older people,

that, you know, either watched or, you know, coming into their own that name is a little overrated. Stallback is a highly, you know, highly respected guy. Kenny the Snake. Who am I missing? You know, guys like Drew Breeze. I mean, you've got to look at the crew now. You know, Mahomes is, I'd say, already a top 10 quarterback.

Josh Allen and Lamar are going to go down as legends. You can be a great, like, what if Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen both, both never win Super Bowls. I think we'd all agree. Like, they are great players. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, huge news? We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to a podcast. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts. We're starting a trend. But this one's extra special.

So how do we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call. call it. And, well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this.

We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, Hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you. you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel

and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. Help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis, and I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris, every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win

on clay. Jench and win. I mean, she went down in three to Rovachina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lina Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now and actually can win on any surface because if she's serving, well, good luck.

Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. How do you feel about how ironic it is that during the Manning cast last year,

Belichick scoffed when the camera pan to Taylor Swift. Now he has the girlfriend in the spotlight the TV cameras will be looking for. Yeah, good call. I just think that this Belichick Jordan's story is kind of getting exhausting now. Like it's funny for a while. Now it's like, give me a break. Like, what are we talking about? It does come up a lot.

I mean, I was in this golf tournament. We talked a lot about it. I do understand if you were his, kids, right? Like if I was Belichick's son seeing like his one of Belichick's kids' wives comment on an Instagram account,

be like, Dad, I don't give a shit if you leave me one penny. I don't care if you, Warren Buffett, give it all a charity. Give it all to, whatever. Fun cancer research. Help out the homeless. Save, you know, dog kennels.

Whatever you got to do with your money. But don't give it to her. Like, this is insane. We have seen a lot of old, rich men in your position, which I would imagine if they were in their prime, would regret what you're about to do. That, to me, is turn in the conversation of like, what is she really after now?

I don't recall, this is about the Bengals rookies sitting. Is this more emblematic of the Bengals as an organization or the players themselves? Based on the article that I read, that the Bengals had lowballed them based on last year's contract. I think it's a little less crazy. Though the Bengals can't be the first organization to have a little bit of an impasse,

and it never happens. I will defend the kids on this, whether it's sitting out rookie minicamp, which is crazy when you read that headline, whether it's none of these guys running the 40, this is not the player's idea. None of this is the player. At 2020,

21 years old, this is not your idea. I promise you, I feel very confident on that. This is all the agent telling them not to do it. This is an agent-run decision-making. I don't think any of these guys not running the 40 are doing it because they don't want to run the 40. I think it's all their representation telling them. Going back to Nico, transferring out of Tennessee,

I think he did that because of his father. So you have all these people that have their hand in your cookie jar that are determining your decisions, which as a young man at 19, 20, 21 years old, like, most people aren't General Patton making their own decisions here. You're very impressionable human beings when you're young. So it's like you get this guy that's a 50-year-old agent

giving you advice, you're going to listen to them. Some of this NIL stuff with your dad or your uncle, you're just going to listen to them. Whether they're right or wrong, I thought Cam Newton summed it up a while back. Well, it's like, you've got to be very careful you take advice from him. be fucking careful.

I think a lot of these guys are getting advice that like, bro, you get an insurance policy. We're not tackling here. Just get you off on the wrong foot. And I understand it's just business, but are you doing, is this your decision or is this, you know, your agent that lives in Newport Beach? After watching Willie Colon's interview,

I checked out some of the 08 Steelers highlights and that defense was insane. You got to see Ryan Clark absolutely destroy West Welker. it's one of the biggest hits I've ever seen. I'm shocked that he actually got up. They called a flag on the play, but just knowing that you had

to go over the middle against that defense must have been terrifying. With guys like James Harrison and Troy Palomalo, do you think modern NFL teams could even hang with that roster? And if so, which team today could actually compete against that kind of roster?

Well, if you think about, like, in the 2000s and the 90, and I would even say up through like 14, 15, CTE kind of came in and then the league changed the rules. Because even up until like when I got out of the NFL and started working in radio, the 49ers in Seattle

would leave a player at least once every other game or once a month send them to the hospital. So you had these safeties that if you came across the middle, there was no flag. They were going to rock you into oblivion. There was no such thing as a defenseless player.

If you were on the field, you were just a football player. And I just think that it's not even possible to compare. Because the Steelers, just like the Ravens, the Bengals built these teams that would destroy you. The Seattle with Cam Chancellor and Earl Thomas. The 49ers with Dante Hittner and Goldson. I mean, and Bowman and Wilson, these fucking people would get rocked. you're not really able to play like that.

I mentioned this the other day on the mailbag that I get asked a lot in Arizona about Scataboo. And they're like, how's Scatabu going to play like? He played. I'm like, well, because he's not running over, you know, Ray Lewis is not sitting there in the hole. LeVon Kirkland and Kevin Green and Ken Norton Jr., like these guys don't play in the league.

The linebackers, like Fred Warner's a very violent, powerful linebacker. he's not exactly Mr. Take-on Offensive Lyman, meet Mike Allstott and Lorenzo Neal and the whole type of player. So the style of the sport is skinnier, faster guys. It's a space and speed game.

So those guys, if they played by their rules, one, if you allowed big hitting in the league, a lot of safeties would destroy people. And the game would be a lot more violent. Because at their core, a lot of safeties, like if you let big hits like Hufunga

who Funga Wunga wants to C.J. Gardner Johnson, like these these guys want to rock your, they just you're not really allowed to. So I, it just depends. Like the rules, if you allowed

those teams to play by those rules, they would have an advantage because they're comfortable doing that you're just not allowed to play like that anymore. So it's hard to do like an apples to apples comparison. It really, it's like a different sport. A mailback question. I've heard you and many of your contemporaries.

I wonder who of my contemporaries are. Prop up Herbert. For what it's worth, I was high on him. But after six years in the league, it's actually five, but I hear what you're saying, two playoff appearances and two horrible showings, including one historic collapse, at what point does somebody's talent in draft pedigree

become a little overrated? I feel like most people right now would take Herbert over Hearst to start a franchise based on talent. But look at Hertz production in the playoffs. How could you realistically take Herbert? I think sometimes it's hard. We just use the Marino, Aikman, Bradshaw example.

Google Marino's teams. Like, they just weren't as good. I mean, Trey Akeman played on some of the best teams in the league history. Steve Young, when he took over for Joe Montana, they had backups that would have started at every team in the NFL, including himself. So like the league, you know, some of these teams, it's not fair fight. This isn't, not everything's equal here.

And I think the Eagles are a good example of like, he plays on a pretty unreal team. So you use this example. He's been in the league five years. For four of those years, he had Anthony Lynn and Brandon Staley as his head coach. This year, he had a real head coach and still didn't have that much talent on. his best receiver is Ladd McConkey. And he threw 23 touchdowns. And I think he only threw like three or four interceptions.

And they won 11 games. Awful in the playoffs. If you want to argue that Jalen's a bright lights, bigger, big time player more than Herbert, I can't argue with you. And the facts are that's true right now. But I've seen one year, one of Herbert with the real coach.

And he had a lot of success. Bad playoff game, but a ton of success. Jalen Hertz got drafted into a well-run organization. I think we all consider Howie, if he's not the best GM, one of the best GMs in the league. They have had, since Jalen has been there, one of the best rosters.

And for two of his three years, the two Super Bowl years, he had Shane Steichen, who immediately became a head coach, and then this year, Kellan Moore, who immediately became a head coach. Now, are those guys good head coaches? Got no clue. They're good offense, of course. coordinators. So, like, I think sometimes we talk about this, and it's sports, it's fun argument.

But it's not basketball. Right. Like, if I get LeBron James or Steph Curry in his prime, it's not going to be that hard to put random guys around them and just be really competitive, right? And more often not, if I get them one All-Star, we're going to be cooking with gas. Look at Yokic. Yolkich. Yolk has never played with an NBA all-star ever in his career.

How many pro-ballers did Jalen play with this year? How many pro bowlers did skill guys? Sequin best running back in the league. A.J. Brown one of the best wide receivers in the league. I mean, Devante's got to be, I mean, top three number two wide receiver in the league. Goddard's really good tight end. Elite offensive line.

Probably the best tackle combination. Dickerson and Jurgens. Beckton just got money as a free agent. Best O line coach. Again, I've come around on Jalen. I respect the shit out of them. but like it's it's hard to just compare the situation.

Now give, let's give him two more years, Herbert with and see how it looks with Jim Harbaugh, a real organization. Because now the Chargers feel like they're a real organization. Do you think Burrow gets enough respect? Alan and Lamar are combined 0 and 3 against Mahomes in the AFC championships and Burrow is one-on-one. Burrow is better wide receivers,

but Allen and Jackson have better overall roster, front offices. Still, I think if you give Mahomes true serum, he'd say Burroughs scares him more in an AFC championship game than the other two. Yet Allad and Jackson get mentioned

more as Mahomes rivals in the AFC by the media. Curious what your take is on the pot. I know for a fact, the Chief's respect level for Josh Allen could not be any higher. They view Josh Allen as an absolute mother

you know what to go up against. and while they didn't play this version of Lamar, who definitely, you know, last year the Lamar game in the in the AFC championship game, was embarrassing. There is no way about it. Score 10 points with an elite defense. You hold them to 17 points.

You have to win that game. The turnovers this year kind of suck, but he played really well in the second half. Like that version of Lamar can beat anybody. And if Andrews holds on to the balls, they would have a chance against the Chiefs. for the next round. But those guys, like,

I think all three go together. You know, I think, and I'm with you, Burrow gets dinged because of the place in which he plays, a little weird. I mean, he just, he plays in just a chaotic environment. And the Bengals are very, very lucky to have him. Because if they just had, like, an average quarterback

with the roster in which they had, and the coaching staff they had, like, you gave them, like, a Dak Prescott of Kirk Cousins, I don't think they'd win sniff, seven, six wins. They'd be terrible. Jamar Chase would be screaming, get me the hell out of here.

I think all three, you know, Mahomes, his resumes, I mean, borderline unprecedented to start a career. The other three guys are just, they're all-timers.

And if Lamar can just not calm down a little bit in the playoffs, I mean, listen, I'm biased. I had 5K on them to beat the Chiefs. And I fucking,

have known Andy and Veach for a long time. I bet against him. And I can't unsee that. I can't. I also took the bills against the Chiefs in that AFC championship for this year. Hard for me to unsee that one. So I hear you.

So Burrough's the only guy that beat him. And Burrow easily could have won the Super Bowl. Lifelong Bucks fan. I consider the Monte Kiffin defense top five all time. If not top three. Barber, Brooks, Lynch, Rice, Sapp, their stats are crazy. Am I just biased?

Also, why is the fullback not a thing anymore? Mike Allstott is my all-time favorite player and is an all-time... In a time of the tush-push, seems like it would work. All-Stat was guaranteed half a yard player. I would say in my... I can't speak to really the 80s and the 90s,

or excuse me, the 70s and the 80s. I think if you look at the totality of the league, like a historian, if I got Steve Sable, God rest his soul, he'd tell you, you'd be hard pressed to not have the Steelers really, really high of the 70s.

I think the 85 bears, it's like, could this guy make the 27 Yankees? Right? That's the way the, that lineup, like Ruth and Garrig is the way that people talk about defense.

The 85 bears, to me, is the bar. Then I think there are a lot of, teams just in the mix, right? Modern day that I've seen, I would say the Ravens of 2000, whatever you want to consider that best defense of Tampa. I mean, they picked off Rich Gainan five times the Super Bowl. Now, granted, Gruden knew the plays. The Steelers defenses with Coward of Tomlin were pretty unreal. I think the Seattle defense with Pete Carroll for four straight years was the number one scoring defense. You know, if Rich, Rich,

Chairman was sitting right here. They were good. I saw them live a bunch. I mean, they had inside pass rushers, outside pass rushers. Linebacking core was unreal. All the D.Bs were good. Pete Carroll, one of the great defensive minds in league history. I think some of those Patriot...

I mean, they're just in the short list of just... They're a great defense. I think most people would just say the best defense of all time, 85 bears. and then from there I think we argue and I think Tampa's in the argument whether they're second whether they're fourth whether they're fifth but they're in the argument but I think pretty clearly it's like

who's the best NBA player of all time Michael Jordan you want to argue two through eight let's argue but most people ain't budging you know remove Twitter for fucking LeBron James starts with Michael Jordan just like the Bears 85 Bears Bill let's have an argument for the next three or four

spots appreciate everyone listening Talk to you guys soon. The Volume. Hey guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what?

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